Gen-X Hate Revisited (Part 2 of 3)
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2024
- Seattle fetishism, Bagge boy, abortive animation, suburban flight & progressive shame.
Gen-X Hate Revisited (Part 1): ruclips.net/video/2_Hf9QmolJc/видео.html
Copyright Disclaimer: This video is an educational analysis / critique and therefore falls within the remit of Fair Use under the copyright laws of the United States. All materials are shown for the purpose of discussing historical & cultural context.
End music clip: "Visualize Ballard" by The Action Suits (featuring Petey-Boy Bagge)
Bagge interview citations:
thedailycrosshatch.com/2011/05/02/interview-peter-bagge-pt-2-of-4/
pleasekillme.com/peter-bagge/
Tacoma Bagge photo: milwaukeerecord.com/arts/20-years-later-lions-tooth-co-owner-cris-siqueira-in-conversation-with-peter-bagge/
"Comics as Art: 40 Years of Fantagraphics" photo by Chris Anthony Diaz
cad_pictures
www.tcj.com/author/chris-diaz/
The 1995 Hate "Pilot":
ruclips.net/video/GjODpqsOdXc/видео.html
Time Stamps:
00:00 Pacific Northwest Serendipity
02:39 Pals n' Gals
03:46 A Time & A Place
04:21 Even Flow
05:21 I Love Hate
07:23 What Might Have Been
10:06 Hateball
13:08 Buddy Does Jersey
15:58 Hate Revisitation
17:13 Bagge Revisionism
#comics #fantagraphics #independentcomics #peterbagge #generationx #seattle #grunge #90s #90sculture #nirvana #hatecomics #alternativecomics #buddybradley #steveloter #danielclowes #eightball #newjersey #haterevisited #johnnyryan #angryyouthcomix #comix #comicsreview #comicreviews #comicbooks #comicbookreview #comicbookreviews #hatecomic #grungestyle 
Развлечения
When I was young and living through those times I wanted to be a hipster slacker partying in seattle. I'm 54 so my apathy has completely negated all that and now I'm a true gen x hipster living in the desert making outsider art. Don't be jealous 😎
@@marcmanalli very much a gen x outcome
Spectacular ❤
"I won"
Our only mistake was being in our prime earning years after the economic miracle ended
Well, I was there in Seattle for all that, I worked in a comic store during Hate's run, and I even ended up working at Fantagraphics in the 90s. What a great look at it and what it was, you really hit the nail on the head. As for that weenis who wrote the hatchet job about Bagge, especially where "Neat Stuff" is concerned, you're right about him not understanding it being from another time. Neat Stuff being from the 80s, it was just pure observation. That's how people talked. That's what attitudes were like. Bagge was showing it, warts and all, to skewer it. Sanctimonious point-missing for the sake of deliberately contrarian takes is tiresome, it's a shame that's such a popular pastime today.
@@MaggieKeizai thanks for sharing, it’s very validating to hear from someone who was there that my analysis is even halfway accurate. Fantagraphics in the 90s, what a time & place that must have been
@@cartoonaesthetics It was a great job, I worked in the warehouse/shipping room. Shit pay, but we got health benefits and a paid lunch hour. If you didn't wanna come in, it wasn't a big deal, and we really only had to meet any kind of deadlines at christmas. Local musicians liked working there because of the touring flexibility, so I got to work with some cool and kinda famous people. Got free comics, too. Quit to go to school. We typically spent a lot of our working days listening to music, playing basketball in the warehouse, playing one on one tetris instead of working, goofing off in general, and working at a very relaxed pace. Best dead end job anyone could ever want.
@@MaggieKeizai that sounds slacktastic. They don’t make jobs like those anymore!
@@cartoonaesthetics It was a dream.
@@MaggieKeizai We live inside a dream
Kelton Sears basically describing the joke that Bagge was delivering - because he doesn't treat Buddy as a character but as a thin disguise for Peter Bagge - as if he has caught Bagge doing a naughty from almost 40 years in the future then proceeding to make a smug list of how Bagge's work is being problematic - while ignoring that that is the joke and Bagge was taking the piss on this culture in the first place - that is honestly a staggering piece of cosmic comedy. GenZ scolding GenX for online clout because GenX drew a spicy comic book decades ago.
People talked and acted that way in Hate because that was how people actually talked and acted in real life. It didn't reveal any kind of underlying bigotry in the people (real or fictional), so much as it reflected an attitude of irreverence; NOTHING was to be taken 100% seriously, or too sacred to fart on and laugh at.
That description of the female characters in Hate as 'almost universally insane, sex-crazed, and taken advantage of'? Yeah, one of the reasons I love Hate is because of how absolutely true that rings to my personal, lived experience. All the women in my life are incredibly horny, have difficulty functioning, and get treated poorly by the unfair world we're living in.
That is not a flaw in the comic; it's a feature, and a damn important one. It's a flaw in life itself.
Despite the title, it was never about actual hate. It was about provoking the gullible into literally judging a book by its cover.
Well said
Awesome stuff. Hate somehow eluded me for years, then in 2019 (age 25 for me), a friend goes “have you read Hate? The main character reminds me of you!” Kind of an insult, but the comic immediately clicked with me. Bagge is a massive influence on how I write. Like you said, he’s got this way of relaying info in the most natural way possible. He’s a genius.
A series called Hate Isn't politically correct who knew?
It's funny because in a lot of interviews Bagge mentions how he wanted something that sounded kind of aggressive & scary. Good way to filter your audience, I guess
Peter Bagge conjured up an incredibly relateable series with Hate
It's funny you don't realize how relatable it is if you're younger than Buddy (as I was) but then as life happens you can't help comparing yourself. I talk about that a little in the next couple parts.
Bagge is currently doing Hate revisited. 4 or 5 issue miniseries. Issue 2 should be out soon.
@@LeoLoikkanen I know!!
Hate was first published when I was in college. I continue reading and loving it through my early 20s slacker years. The early 90s were a great time to be a broke hipster. I even got to meet Bagge and Clowes when the HateBall tour came to NYC. Thank you for the info in Hate Revisited; will definitely pick it up. Also consider doing a retrospective on Roberta Gregory’s Naughty Bits. Another favorite of the era
So ready for this. The first part is great. I've watched it a couple of times already and will again before this segment.
Get a life! (j/k)
Found your channel the other day. I’m predicting you will have 100k subs within a year if you keep up the quality of your content like this.
Thanks man
Hate was 100% accurate. I lived that shit.
Thank you for your service
@@cartoonaestheticsand yours as well
Kids today will never understand how right you are. I wasn’t in Seattle, but the culture and attitude Bagge documents was equally present across the country
@@Ontonaut I talk a bit about this in the third & final part, how buddy was a surrogate Gen-x older brother of sorts to me
@@cartoonaestheticsI’m looking forward to part 3. Great work
Great work here! What a bummer of a sour note that hit piece was. It feels like a glitch in the matrix that Kelton was faulting Bagge for not ticking the boxes while including a quote from Bagge about not ticking all the boxes.
Nuance is lost on people like that in a funny way. I remember seeing homeschoolers as a kid in the 90's. They seemed naive defenseless and unaware of anything not directly in their own orbit.
Culture has circled around so hard that people like the one writing this article have adopted the same mantle as those homeschool kids...
Kelton is the product of over-socialization. He's not naive, he's painfully aware of the need to conform to his social class. He says as much in that article when he wrote that while reading Bagge comics, he kept looking around to make sure no one was watching him.
@@cartoonaesthetics well said, I don't really have my finger on the pulse of such things, it just makes me sad because they guy doesn't give the comic a chance, his biases seem to inform his opinion before he began. It's, again, a bummer to focus on this bit in a really good video. As I said before, keep up the good work.
Kelton didn't lose the "nuance", the article shows they were fully aware of it. The thing is, pointing out a personal fault ("not ticking all the right boxes") does not excuse it nor makes it go away on its own.
@@DroppedBass The line that kills me though is "Whether you want to call it satire, black humor, or both, yeesh." That seems to imply Kelton doesn't think any context justifies Bagge's offensive content. It's all just "yeesh" to him - a snarky, unthinking, childishly inarticulate way of expressing disapproval. Totally amateurish for professional criticism at the very least.
@@cartoonaesthetics Why do you think there could be a context which justifies it?
Hey man I'm really digging your videos. I've always been curious about Gen X in general but all of my older Gen X family members had already moved away by the time I had the presence of mind to learn from them. This Hate Revisited series has been very enlightening.
Glad you liked it1 Obviously I highly recommend Hate as one of the definitive studies of Xers. Check it out!
SUBSCRIBED!!!! Living in Brooklyn, NYC around 2010/2011 I remember this huge rapid migration/influx of people from Oregon, Washington, Vancouver, Idaho- you could see the out of state license plates of cars all around predominantly Black neighborhoods (many had For Sale signs on them). Places like Williamsburg, Coney Island and Red Hook had already become "Seattle East" but now Bedford Stuyvesant, Crown Heights, and Brownsville were rapidly getting coffee shopped! Yes, it was fascinating to see the transformation happening in real time. (My favorite alt comic was Joe Matt's Peep Show books- The Poor Bastard, Fair Weather, etc).
Yeah Seattleification was what we'd call "gentrification" today
Has anyone here heard of a little comic called "Trailer Trash" by Roy Tompkins? It only lasted 10 issues on Tundra publishing. Anyone who likes "Hate" would probably like it too. It concerns a loser in Texas and all his loser friends. Too bad it never caught on and now Roy T. is forced to run an antiques store to make a living. Extremely well drawn and extremely well written.
Thanks for the recommendation
Bagge is actually a boomer, but its interesting how in tune with the culture he was
There's some cultural overlap with the late boomers & early Xers - often times I'm surprised to look up someone strongly associated with Gen X culture like Mike Judge & find they're technically a boomer (using the common definition of anyone born between 1946 - 1964)
I think you're wrong to call Peter Bagge an early Gen-Xer--or any kind of Gen-Xer. He was born in 1957, that's a straight-up Boomer. I wouldn't even consider that a "late" Boomer (unless that means one born after 1955). Daniel Clowes and Charles Burns are also Boomers. Fantagraphics is run by Boomers, and most of the people they publish are Boomers. They do not speak for Gen-X. That scene where Clowes speaks through Bagge's characters reads very differently when you see it for what it is: a Boomer shit-talking Gen-X. I think the problem here is that you're failing to distinguish between the people who produce the culture and the people who consume the culture. So your concept of "Gen-X culture" is not clear. You might be better off just talking about '90s culture or something like that. Gen-Xers didn't really start producing culture in a significant way until the early-to-mid '90s, when they were primarily consumers of culture produced by Boomers. As a Gen-Xer, I'm frankly pretty tired of Boomers like Bagge and Clowes, etc., telling us what our culture is. There's some cultural carpetbagging going on there. Also, Kelton Sears is a Millennial--of course he's going to find fault with a Boomer like Bagge for not being 'woke' enough. But if you love Peter Bagge's work, that's great. If you want to celebrate him as an outstanding cartoonist of the Boomer generation, that's fine. Just don't call him a Gen-Xer.
@@artcorpscomics Okay, I'll concede that Bagge is a boomer using the 1946-1964 definition, but I also think the boomers who came of age in the 70s are a lot closer to Xers than those who grew did in the 60s. It's also significant when boomer artists / creators' work resonated a lot more with Xers than their fellow boomers. Spiritual Xers you could say.
By the common definition, the Baby Boom generation spans 18 years, and I would agree that there are noticeable differences between the earlier cohort (say, 1946-1955) and the later one (1956-1964). And there’s rarely an abrupt shift in attitudes based on people’s birth year. An argument could even be made for a transitional “microgeneration” of people born in ’63, ’64, ’65, and ’66-that would include such “Boomers” as Keanu Reeves, Matt Dillon, Bridget Fonda, Courtney Cox, Courtney Love, and Eddie Vedder, all of whom are closely associated with what you term “Gen-X culture.” That said, I find it interesting that Bagge considered setting the Buddy Bradley stories around 1980 rather than 1990. I think doing the former would have been more honest, as he would then have been talking about his own generation’s experience rather than putting words into the mouths of Gen-Xers. In the late ’80s and early ’90s, the members of what is now designated Generation X were consuming the culture that was made available to them, some of which resonated with them and some of which very much didn’t. But I would call that “Late Boomer” culture and reserve the term “Gen-X culture” for work created by actual Gen-Xers. This Late Boomer culture was being marketed (some might say cynically) to a Gen-X audience, which was at that time the desirable age demographic. Bagge connected with an unarguably small segment of that audience. That I grant you. But 1994 was not the end of Gen-X culture-it was only getting started then. I think it’s telling that “grunge” music was the first successful popular culture genre produced by Gen-Xers, and it was met with immediate disdain and vitriol from Boomers like Bagge and (especially) Clowes. Perhaps it threatened Boomers’ cultural hegemony and therefore had to be attacked and destroyed as quickly as possible. As a group, Boomers tend to be thin-skinned narcissists. If you want to look at actual Gen-X culture expressed in the medium of comics, you need to look ahead to people like Adrian Tomine, Chris Ware, Marjane Satrapi, and Jessica Abel. Also Johnny Ryan, whom you’ve already mentioned. Those are real Gen-Xers.
This is a good ass video I really wish American comics went this direction. Edgy and fun and whatever it wants to be.
Even though I lived through the 90s, as a millennial (and an expat) it really felt like an extension of the 80s to me. Even my tastes in cartoons would be more towards what would have been popular in the 80s (My username still being a reference to X-Men: TAS) .
I would occasionally get glimpses of this culture whenever I ran into older kids but I always saw them like how we saw emos and goths later on, a niche subculture rather than the dominant youth culture.
@@burningphoneix I was mainly into 80s culture even as a 90s kid, so I definitely relate
Yeah, a bunch of Gen Xers have gone back on everything they did when they were young, the most obvious case in point being Chuck Klosterman's book The Nineties. If you think the hit piece on Bagge was ridiculous, that's a 300 page retrospective on the entire decade with the same smugly superior point of view.
I think there's a need to evaluate what it means to be cynical and sincere. Gen X had a moment where they were both, because they turned so much of their disdain back on themselves and decided they just weren't going to lie about how it was... while at the same time, they still obviously held the same basic anti-establishment values as the boomers did. They just knew they couldn't pull it off. The fault wasn't in the system, it was in the people, who in aggregate ARE the system. It works this way because earnest reform doesn't work. Trust and social duty can't be sold to a consumerist people. They know too much, and can't deal with power well enough to really change the value system.
If sincerity means that you have to really go after what you believe is right, but cynicism means knowing that you're going to fail, then you can be both but you can't believe in a happy ending. Gen X was right about this, and at some point you have to accept that it's the beliefs, the hope for the idyllic world, that's flawed. I don't think this is such a bad thing, but I like people more when they're tough and scarred and a little vitriolic, so I'm probably just way out of touch and don't like the species.
I'd always wondered if Klosterman was any good, thanks for saving me the trouble
This really does explain where my comic book interests lie whenever I talk about "not-superhero" stuff. It's weird and raw, stuff for outsiders. I have a hard time describing what I mean, because while these comics are "of a time" they never really went away. There's still comics like this, but they are not the phenomena they were in the 90s. Bagge is definitely one of the greats.
There was a real momentum at the time for alternative (to superhero) comics. Like I said in the first part, the industry failed to capitalize on that in the long term, but I think authors like Bagge were really motivated not only to do great work but to also potentially legitimize comics as a popular art form.
Amazing content! Can’t wait for more from you!
Thanks!
This is all so fascinating. As I continue studying animation, I've really tried reflecting on how I see the world and how to incorporate that into my work rather than copying what I like and falling into clichés. Hate is something I definitely gotta check out at some point.
Yeah, absolutely. I think the great cartoonists have always had a really perceptive eye for human behavior, which is endlessly complex. Too many cartoonists / artists fall into the trap of just copying other people's work. But the best of them combine a really solid knowledge of art technique with that observational eye, & it makes their cartoons feel "real" even when they're highly stylized or exaggerated.
@@cartoonaesthetics great advice!
Great video! I just wanted to say Tacoma is to the south of Seattle, not upstate, but you captured the weirdness of the culture there so well I feel that can be overlooked.
Oh, F me! What a boner. Glad you enjoyed it anyway
Big Bagge fan but I found the latest ‘Hate Revisited’ a bit patchy with some unusually rushed inking. What did you make of it?
@@andrewmacdonald3667 I’ll get to that in part 3
I started reading Neat Stuff and Weirdo in the mid 80's. That was some of the funniest comics I read up to that time. Hate is reflective of every psuedo hip early 20's scene around the USA. I'm from the tail end of boomers with our Hardcore scene. Thanks for this great history. I was fortunate enough to meet Maestro Bagge in the 90's. He was laid back but I could sense his sardonic wit
That's so cool
Frankly, im surprised this didnt take more of this piss out of Hate. The first segment lead me to believe you shared my derision for the generation of slackers complaining about being able to afford a life of idle consumerism (ala fightclub, office space, first half of the matrix.)
I dont really go in for the generational warfare of it all, however when I read hate and its latter issues, it felt as though it rightly pegged "Gen X" as engaging in the same mythmaking as the boomers, but faster and about less.
That is, the boomers have this false memory of themselves as drivera of history by way of their daliance with counterculture before most of them became reaganauts. And while the hippies of yore had all the material impact of a piss in the ocean upon the vietnam war, womens rights, etc. Etc. The boomers still make fawning hagiographies of that time, as at least they did something sometimes, at least they crammed three decades of good music into about 7 years.
Gen x, as depicted in Hate, is contrarian for its own sake, and have this schmaltzy reverence for the slacker who works a mcjob and offends people. They have somehow concreted a nostalgic and sacred generational identity like the boomers, but did so in their 20s and 30s instead of in their 50s and 60s.
And i guess, it sort of seems ironic. To have a deep reverence for the product of a generation against deep reverence. To feel that there is something sacred about something which finds the idea of the sacrosanct so deeply uncool.
But then again, the hippies grew up to vote for Ronnie Regan and make DARE, so it only follows that the gen x hipsters follow on by growing up and saying "back in my day!" About irreverent comix. Millenials will likely grow up to complain about the weans being too offended by everything and not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
We all grow up to be hypocrites.
I thought P. Bagge & his alter ego Buddy were actually pretty free of navel-gazing or self-pity, or I wouldn't have enjoyed Hate so much. Even the Xer fixation on childhood pop culture nostalgia is kind of satirized when Buddy opens a retro collectibles store, which his friend Jay operates in a mercenary fashion.
I really lliked that Clowes segment. I been meaning to read black hole, I should get on that. Great video like last time!
Black Hole is Charles Burns ;) But yes, highly recommend both dudes
@@adamkane dann. Where is my mind, thanks for the clear up!
Charles Burns was one of the luminaries of the 80s-unto-90s alternative comics scene (he was the other artist besides Clowes who got commissioned to design OK Soda cans, which might be why you're confusing them) but I haven't kept up on what he's been doing lately
@@cartoonaesthetics He's got a new book coming out soon actually; it's a collection of covers for imaginary books, called 'Kommix'
@@adamkane nice
Great channel and series. Looking forward to more
Thank you so much!
I was exactly of that age and demographic in that era. I remember going to the comic store in midtown KC, buying the latest hate and talking to the clerk (who incidentally sometimes went by the pseudonym Buddy) and how we may not have *directly* experienced what was depicted, we'd experienced so much *like* it.
That being said I'm not nostalgic in general. Especially since some people in certain 'indie lit' circles have taken a far right turn, and Bagge's own libertarianism is...not entitled surprising but still disappointing
I was already a movie buff back then but it was in HATE where I first learned about the surreal "Spider Baby" starring a young Sid Haig! 🕷👶
Yeah I love that issue, with all its references to tracking down what were then rare & obscure movies, like Carnival of Souls or The Girl Can't Help It (which Yahtzee Murphy sold a tenth generation unwatchable bootleg of to Buddy)
This series has motivated me to get this for an old Cambridge Boomer friend of mine who used to distribute International Times and Oz Magazines on campus and got busted multiple times for it. He was also a fan of Crumb and Zap and other contemporary publications. He's incredibly difficult to gift-buy for, but i think I'm going to get him the Hate box set. So you've made a sale. 😁
Nice, you could also get him the "Buddy Does Seattle" volume as a more cost-effective way to get him started. I mean, after "Hate Revisited" they're probably going to re-release "The ACTUALLY Complete Hate" at some point
Interesting to see more toon channels crop up. Keep posting!!
I will!
Its amazing just how great Hate was and how shit most of Bagge's other work is.
I hate everything but love HATE!
@@KeithGereghty “finally! A comic for MY generation!” - some xer probly
Excellent! This is what RUclips is for. Neat Stuff and Hate would have been insipid mush had it catered to uptight wokescolds like the Seattle Weekly writer you mention.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good ol' P-Bag. I think he's still hoping for a big resurgence and the day a major player wants to hand over a big check to make a cartoon with his characters/style. I think his art would be a good contender for 3D treatment.
@@stifledvoice I could see that working, but I’d rather not see bagge animated at all if it’s not done traditionally (like the Hate pilot, or even the Murry Wilson Show flash animation)
I never was a fan of Bagge. But this is very informative. Makes me think it's about white people for white people. Very SWPL.
I guess it was, but not really consciously - America was just basically SWPL by default until relatively recently
Very Scottish Women's Premier League indeed
Reading those comics and how much life is in them reminds me that I have no life and will probably never get one like that.
I dunno how old you are but don't give up on yourself. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Leonard "Stinky" Brown
@@cartoonaesthetics 16 year old autistic groyper. nuuuu
I am a Yummy Fer man myself. Also, Ried Flemming.
@@troygaspard6732 I need to check them out
Any plans for a full video on Johnny Ryan in the future?
Ryan is one of those all-timers for me, so I think I'd need to break down my appreciation into different subtopics (Angry Youth Comix, Blecky Yuckerella, Vice strips, his later more abstract work) rather than try to cram it all into one giant overview
@@cartoonaesthetics I look forward to it (if it happens). I've been kind of rediscovering Ryan's work these past few weeks and having a lot of fun.
@@olSmudgyA retrospective on Angry Youth Comix would be the one I'd want to do most. Like Hate, I discovered it in my teens & it meant a lot to me.
Genx we dont care.
Genz they care too much.
Faith No More: We Care a Lot
Jesus Christ, than Dan Clowes depiction is locked in. It's as on point as the Radio X DJ "Sage" from Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.
I'm such a boomer the last GTA I played was Vice City but yeah after looking up & listening to Sage they nailed Xers pretty good lol
RIP Stinky
Shhh!
I really liked the Bradleys era of Bagge, when it was still angsty but not as serious.
Those stories about Buddy going to the "Hippie House," The Bradleys' Christmas & that final issue are all as good as anything from Hate. And I think when Buddy and Lisa went back to Jersey the series reached its peak, because Buddy's family are perfect foils to him.
Monroe from Mad Mag. You do such good deep dives, make one more
Loved Monroe. It kills me there was never a book collection!
Loving this channel
@@bill-p2g glad to hear it!
awesome. not many people know about fun stuff, or hate, comics.
Great video
Thanks!
I used to know a guy in a Cincy band called The Buddy Bradley Experience -- he met P-Bag in person and was gifted with an on-the-spot caricature of Pete Rose; here they are at the old laundromat/venue, Sudsy Malone's ruclips.net/video/b_DF0uKM0mM/видео.html
@@ringkite neat stuff
@@cartoonaesthetics 🏆
Plop….. basil Wolverton …and …. Mad … can you dive into the previous generation
Great job , when does part 3 come out?
Thank you, part 3 will be done soon. As for Basil, Mad, those are big topics! But if I get to them I'll try to offer a unique take.
@@cartoonaesthetics
Did Peter bagge do punk album covers? Also what’s the your recommendation for an intro to a gen x compilation?
@@ElephantsEye-pg1zf He did quite a few album covers actually, for various genres - www.discogs.com/artist/406794-Peter-Bagge
As for a Gen X music compilation I have no idea but you could probably do worse than the soundtrack albums for "Gen X movies" like Clerks
@@cartoonaesthetics I meant a comic anthology, thanks for ur reply, those are good movies though. It was the genre of comics in ur video that really impressed me!
Why is that woman posed that way? Is that supposed to be "edgy?"
She's more "angular" than edgy
What a great overview - this is my first exposure to Peter Baggie’s work, so thanks!
Just a newbie observation (forgive if this is already known or previously discussed by fans already)…. It seems to me that that 1999 animated show Mission Hill could be a direct rip-off of, or at least highly inspired by Hate. Seattle hipsters… wacky secondary characters… it’s like the same work, but watered down with more low-brow humor.
Oh, for sure. Mission Hill, for all its good qualities, was definitely a sitcom & not an authentic portrayal of a time & place & its people
It looks a lot like Rocky by Matin Kellerman.
I had not heard of this before but yeah I can see it
This guy sounds smart 👀🧠
@@Hummus420 that better not be sarcasm
🤘🏻
I thought Gen Xs shtick was nihilistic indifference, yes?
I think that's what it became, and what corporate America marketed it as, but at the beginning there was more diversity in the attitudes you saw in its art & culture, as far as I can tell.
I remember reading "Hate" in the early 90s because Bagge's art resembled nothing so much as Basil Wolverton's work in Mad Magazine.
But it quickly became apparent to me that Bagge was using his character, Buddy, to say all the racist, sexist things that Bagge wanted to say without fear of criticism.
And we see this sort of thing even today. Comics like Seinfeld, Maher, Carolla, Rogan, (and most recently - and regrettably - Chappelle) want to exercise their right to say whatever they want and of course, that is and always should be their right.
But what they really want is not freedom of speech, but freedom from criticism. This allows them to paint themselves, ironically, as unfairly maligned victims whose only crime is saying offensive things. And when someone criticizes them or protests their events, they become the hypersensitive crybabies they accuse other people of being. Talk about entitled. These guys honestly believe they are entitled to laughs and immunity from criticism.
Bagge, a right wing libertarian who has worked for the Ayn Rand-worshipping publication, Reason, is cut from the same cloth. His artwork is great, some of his work is hilarious, but at the end of the day, it's still the same old "woe is me, I'm being oppressed by liberals, gays and feminists because I'm entitled to laughs and if you don't like it, that's because you're an uptight culture warrior."
I disagree, but I could see how you feel that way. Annoyance with liberals & feminists was definitely a recurring theme of his. But give Bagge credit, he's not some culture warrior / grifter like Bill Maher or Adam Carolla - he's created three respectful biographies of important feminist historical figures, including Margaret Sanger for goodness' sake. I have to disagree about him being anti-gay as well, Phil was a very sympathetic & well-rounded gay character from the original Hate, & the homophobia of Buddy's family (especially from Butch) was often an obvious subject of ridicule.
All those 90's edgelords trying to out-grimdark each other with who could be the most bitterly and darkly satirical about America and the world, thinking they are rebels when they were still sheep like everyone else, only with their wool spray-painted black .
They weren't rebels. You know what true rebellion would have looked like?
Happiness. Hope. Optimism. Faith. Trust. And community.
All the things our Millennial kids believed in.
Now Gen Z cries out for something to believe in, and we have NOTHING to offer them. We're the generation that rejected all forms of belief and learned to do without.
Too bad Gen Z didn't get the fucking memo.
We have failed this children in a deep and terrible way,
Oh cool, another "my generation is the best and the rest are hopeless and everything's their fault" rant based on assumptions and ignorance.
@@MaggieKeizai I'm Gen X. I am talking crap about my own generation.
Which is a pretty Gen X thing to do, granted.
@@MaggieKeizai woosh
I can't disagree with anything you wrote.
yeah i remember ed piskor is no longer with us
Sadly