Sorry but you're not using the right roast... Turboshot is best for light to medium light roast. Not the dark variant that you used. Really strongly suggesting trying it with lighter roast (with good resting ~ at least 2 weeks). If lighter roast isn't your thing then the turboshot is definitely not for you..
sounds like v60 pourover atempted on an espresso machine.. makes no sense. its like removing the engine from a motorbike and adding foot pedals and a chain,,, why not just use a bicycle, typical coffee geek rubbish
@@rob-kiwi3997 first of all, what makes you think pour over is inferior? Its a different taste profile and different type of drink. Second, you are somewhat correct that it tones-down the taste. But its not down to pour-over level tone-down. Speaking of pour-over, its a bonus if you can mimic pour-over, a different type of coffee, with one equipment isnt it?
Turbo shots are about acidity and sweetness at the expense of bitterness and body. I think it demonstrates that the coffee space is expanding and drawing in those with a wider range of palates. The thin body and fruit forward nature of a turbo shot seems especially popular at specialty places in Asia, where the clientele are more used to the mouthfeel of thick Chinese teas - rather than the creamy mouthfeel of 'proper' espresso. So the exact reasons you don't like turbo shots are the exact reasons they appeal to others!
I think grind size plays a much larger role in the turbo shot than setting a target pressure for an OPV/needle valve. Personally, some of the sweetest and fruitiest shots I've pulled were accidental turbo shots while dialing in. I achieve 6bar by grinding coarser than usual. I've also found that grinder burr geometry also plays a big part in how your turbo shots come out. On my stock df64 II burrs, (SS italmill) turbo shots were just ok. on my SSP MP's, turbo shots taste quite magical.
Thats true, you will need a fast flow style burr set to get bright and fruity espresso, SSP MP would be a very common example. Traditional espresso produce the amount of fines that the espresso taste like more chocolaty more traditional side, the Mazzor burr in Niche Zero would be another good example. And the coffee by the look is a little bit dark to give a bright espresso. Fast flow equipment helps produce brighter espresso, like high extraction burr, basket, etc.
Turbo shots are for light roast beans, high flow basket, and low fine burr, you go turbo because you can’t pull traditional shot using those parameters.
As a very big fan of your channel, I love to see you challenge the industry. However, I thought it may interest you to comment on some things about turbo shots and my experience with them. I also love very slow shots. Over the years I’ve had some amazing turbo shots, but they were VERY rare. I’ve found many things leading to me to be able to pull turbo shots that are literally identical to my slower shots taste profile (I taste blind). The biggest thing I’d recommend is to use lighter coffees that are rested for many weeks and have little creama (think 0:30-1:30 fc dev time). All that gas is harming even extraction you’d need in such a fast amount of time. Second is on my Mythos, I’ve actually had to pull shots at 8 seconds full bar, whereas on my bentwood it’s around 11 seconds and on the e65s it’s even longer for a given coffee. Timings will change, but grinders play such a big role in how fast one can brew and have a “dialed in” turbo shot recipe. This is after 6-12 seconds of 2bar mavam pre infusion btw. Don’t be afraid to pull very fast, because sometimes this actually lowers overly acidic flavors in milk and makes espresso taste better depending on the coffee. The last thing I think may be of interest to you (possibly) is using 4-6 bars of pressure. In my machines, I often prefer around 5 bars but it varies depending on the coffee. BUT 5 bars of pump pressure actually looks like 4 bars at my pressure gauge vs when I measure on a scace. If this is true for your machine, combined with the “longer” brew times, you may be channeling your shots significantly. May be worth a try to do it differently. I’ve spend years analyzing this and this is what over found. As always, thanks for the great content!! Can’t wait to see your follow up video!!!
I only do turbo shots on very light roast like Sey, up to a 1:5 ratio. It doesn’t work well on medium, which I always prefer the more bitter character of a traditional shot.
My flair 58 with a coarse (wrong) dial in pulls the whole cylinder (60g) in 13-18s at 3-4 bars. That's what gets me a turbo shot which tastes like if the v60 and espresso had a baby. A perfect middle ground. 6 bars is wayy too much pressure to get a turbo. A puck able to hold more than 4-5 bars is not coarse enough for turbo.
I think with turbo shots you want to play with your grams out until it tastes right. Too sour? Pull for longer! Too bitter? Pull shorter! Every grind setting that can hold above 4 bar should be able to reach drinkable status with the right amount of output (which may exceed the capacity of your cup)
Very true. It's a flexible process. I was even able to get something "drinkable" using a blade grinder (grinder anxiety vid, good for a laugh if you like).
light roasts tend to create shots with more acidity, so wouldn't this method, which creates a sour shot with a medium roast, be off the charts in terms of acidity if you use a light roast?
@@pimacanyon6208 That's why you pull longer shots (1:3 to 1:4 instead of 1:2) often at higher temperature (and probably with the added extraction of coarser grind you get back some of that bitterness). But the main problem with this video is probably that the person thinks there is one universal best taste for one drink. Like when he said you add hops to beer to increase bitterness. Well, you do add a lot in some sort of beers and you don't in lots of others. There are even sour beers that have absolutely no bitterness whatsoever and it's still beer and some people still love it (another obvious problem might be beans selection). In coffee, some people love acidity and floral notes, other prefer bitterness and more "structured" notes. It's not a problem that he doesn't like them, but that's pretty much how he should present that.
@@cedric7049 So you've done shots like you describe using light roasted coffee, and the shots are not too sour? Or maybe I should rephrase that: If you have a light roasted coffee that you like and you pull a standard shot and also pull a turbo shot using the method you describe, is the turbo shot more or less sour than the standard, or are they roughly the same in terms of acidity?
@@pimacanyon6208 I've done it yes and I wouldn't say it's more sour. For me it's quite close to a standard shot in terms of sourness/bitterness. The main difference is that it loses a lot of body and gains clarity.
my thesis before pressing play was: he'll change his pressure back to 9+ at the end. ✅. Turbo and Lavazza don't go well mr gourmet 😅. give it a try with something like SEY. Then again, it's not for everybody. I don't think it was meant to replace the classic syrupy shots.
I'm glad that you are smart enough to know that a lower pressure is needed and courser grind to achieve a turbo shot. The amount of times I have seen people making a regular espresso and not ground fine enough and it pours in 15 seconds then they call it a "turbo shot" It bothers me. That ain't no turbo shot. That's just an under extracted espresso shot. Personally I have had mixed results with turbo shots. Some have been okay but mostly not. The lack of texture and body I don't like. I much prefer a traditional espresso.
If your shot runs in 15 seconds it won’t have low extraction because of the crazy flowrate and high evenness. That’s the whole point of turbos. Unless you don’t even hit low pressure, that is. So if anything, you can be too coarse and almost never to fine if your shot takes 15s.
@@davidfuller581 Of course, but then you give up control over brew speed. g/sec. I sometimes find it very helpful adjusting the opv to hit a desired brew time at a specific pressure. That's includes when brewing at 9 bar as well.
If you want espresso from under roasted coffee it gets you a drink closer to the pour overs those refined palettes are accustomed to. If you want lots of body roast darker, grind finer and pull longer
I know you're trying to be helpful, but recipes are a minor variable dwarfed by the high degree of variability in coffee density, cultivar, altitude, climate, roast level, grinder (EK 43 in my case), water mineral content, and basket shape and style. Those are are all factors too. The diff between 1:2.6 and 1:3 is negligible in this context.
I'm pulling at ~2.9 ml / sec, as shown in the video. How is that "way off"? [edit, expressed ratio backward, lol] Five ml/sec would give you 75 ml in 15 secs!
@killerhornist flow rate from a pump is constant and the pressure is dictated by a needle valve on a rotary pump and an OPV on a vibration pump. Unless your referring to a group head tap fitted to the mushroom of the e61? And even if debit was at your suggested flow rate you'd still need to reduce the pressure from the pump
I always thought the "turbo shot" was just a silly fad for the coffee hipster people who need to keep changing things and tell you how much more they know about stuff than you do, I prefer the longer shots with lower pressure if I feel like playing about as at least you are far more likely to get something drinkable.
@@davidfuller581 I find the opposite, all the sour acidity comes out and to get any balance you have to pull so long you may as well have a pourover! The thin body takes away one of the joys of espresso too, I stand by my assertion 100%, the fact that nobody talks about them anymore just proves it was a fad, if it was any good it would be a new standard.
turbo-shot sounds like something very american to do. but i admit, im'm very biased against fruity and acidic notes in coffee, i mean, just drink tea with some lemon juice, if you like it that way.
Thats why its a hipster thing, they all like super light roasts which gives you a battery acid shot, normal people won't like this shit so they can continue their "Emperors new clothes" only we like it cos we have soooooooo sophisticated tastes that you can't possibly understand.
@@Thetache I agree with you that some people are way too full of themselves when it comes to new style coffee roasts, but let's focus on not making this some sort of gate keeping situation.
Turbo shots are for those who want to make light roast filter with all the “influencer espresso toys” and appear edgy and so ahead of everyone, like pulling proper shots is so 2020. But i should add that without giving everything weird labels if a 15 second 1:3 shot tastes better than any other recipe then just go for it and enjoy
@@hothead8268 oh did i hurt your ego or something? If you want filter why not play with filter toys? Why buy a whole lot of espresso toys and NOT make espresso but make filter instead…
@@jurgenzielmann1108I see you have changed your original comment... Anyways, I don't have a lot of espresso toys. I just found your original comment arrogant and smug .
Why would me saying that you make filter with your espresso toys because you can’t handle the intensity of espresso make me sound like that? You probably had one too many espr…filt…I mean _turbo_ shots today anon. I changed my comment because i had more to say and so that fragile turboboys don’t get all hurt and snappy in the comments, you know anon? Now, let us both go touch some grass and enjoy whatever it is we like
Sorry but you're not using the right roast... Turboshot is best for light to medium light roast. Not the dark variant that you used. Really strongly suggesting trying it with lighter roast (with good resting ~ at least 2 weeks). If lighter roast isn't your thing then the turboshot is definitely not for you..
Exactly
It’s funny how one can predict what’s wrong with the video without even clicking it. At this point it’s satire.
@@RegrinderAlert tell me exactly why you would think that ;)
sounds like v60 pourover atempted on an espresso machine.. makes no sense. its like removing the engine from a motorbike and adding foot pedals and a chain,,, why not just use a bicycle, typical coffee geek rubbish
@@rob-kiwi3997 first of all, what makes you think pour over is inferior? Its a different taste profile and different type of drink.
Second, you are somewhat correct that it tones-down the taste. But its not down to pour-over level tone-down.
Speaking of pour-over, its a bonus if you can mimic pour-over, a different type of coffee, with one equipment isnt it?
Turbo shots are about acidity and sweetness at the expense of bitterness and body. I think it demonstrates that the coffee space is expanding and drawing in those with a wider range of palates. The thin body and fruit forward nature of a turbo shot seems especially popular at specialty places in Asia, where the clientele are more used to the mouthfeel of thick Chinese teas - rather than the creamy mouthfeel of 'proper' espresso. So the exact reasons you don't like turbo shots are the exact reasons they appeal to others!
I think grind size plays a much larger role in the turbo shot than setting a target pressure for an OPV/needle valve. Personally, some of the sweetest and fruitiest shots I've pulled were accidental turbo shots while dialing in. I achieve 6bar by grinding coarser than usual. I've also found that grinder burr geometry also plays a big part in how your turbo shots come out. On my stock df64 II burrs, (SS italmill) turbo shots were just ok. on my SSP MP's, turbo shots taste quite magical.
Thats true, you will need a fast flow style burr set to get bright and fruity espresso, SSP MP would be a very common example. Traditional espresso produce the amount of fines that the espresso taste like more chocolaty more traditional side, the Mazzor burr in Niche Zero would be another good example. And the coffee by the look is a little bit dark to give a bright espresso.
Fast flow equipment helps produce brighter espresso, like high extraction burr, basket, etc.
Turbo shots are for light roast beans, high flow basket, and low fine burr, you go turbo because you can’t pull traditional shot using those parameters.
As a very big fan of your channel, I love to see you challenge the industry. However, I thought it may interest you to comment on some things about turbo shots and my experience with them.
I also love very slow shots. Over the years I’ve had some amazing turbo shots, but they were VERY rare. I’ve found many things leading to me to be able to pull turbo shots that are literally identical to my slower shots taste profile (I taste blind).
The biggest thing I’d recommend is to use lighter coffees that are rested for many weeks and have little creama (think 0:30-1:30 fc dev time). All that gas is harming even extraction you’d need in such a fast amount of time.
Second is on my Mythos, I’ve actually had to pull shots at 8 seconds full bar, whereas on my bentwood it’s around 11 seconds and on the e65s it’s even longer for a given coffee. Timings will change, but grinders play such a big role in how fast one can brew and have a “dialed in” turbo shot recipe. This is after 6-12 seconds of 2bar mavam pre infusion btw. Don’t be afraid to pull very fast, because sometimes this actually lowers overly acidic flavors in milk and makes espresso taste better depending on the coffee.
The last thing I think may be of interest to you (possibly) is using 4-6 bars of pressure. In my machines, I often prefer around 5 bars but it varies depending on the coffee. BUT 5 bars of pump pressure actually looks like 4 bars at my pressure gauge vs when I measure on a scace. If this is true for your machine, combined with the “longer” brew times, you may be channeling your shots significantly.
May be worth a try to do it differently. I’ve spend years analyzing this and this is what over found. As always, thanks for the great content!! Can’t wait to see your follow up video!!!
I only do turbo shots on very light roast like Sey, up to a 1:5 ratio. It doesn’t work well on medium, which I always prefer the more bitter character of a traditional shot.
My flair 58 with a coarse (wrong) dial in pulls the whole cylinder (60g) in 13-18s at 3-4 bars. That's what gets me a turbo shot which tastes like if the v60 and espresso had a baby. A perfect middle ground.
6 bars is wayy too much pressure to get a turbo. A puck able to hold more than 4-5 bars is not coarse enough for turbo.
I think with turbo shots you want to play with your grams out until it tastes right. Too sour? Pull for longer! Too bitter? Pull shorter! Every grind setting that can hold above 4 bar should be able to reach drinkable status with the right amount of output (which may exceed the capacity of your cup)
Very true. It's a flexible process. I was even able to get something "drinkable" using a blade grinder (grinder anxiety vid, good for a laugh if you like).
I never thought too much about this turbo shot fad...its hard enough to get a God shot with regular prep
This video is a joke. Turbo shots are meant for light roasts
light roasts tend to create shots with more acidity, so wouldn't this method, which creates a sour shot with a medium roast, be off the charts in terms of acidity if you use a light roast?
@@pimacanyon6208 That's why you pull longer shots (1:3 to 1:4 instead of 1:2) often at higher temperature (and probably with the added extraction of coarser grind you get back some of that bitterness). But the main problem with this video is probably that the person thinks there is one universal best taste for one drink. Like when he said you add hops to beer to increase bitterness. Well, you do add a lot in some sort of beers and you don't in lots of others. There are even sour beers that have absolutely no bitterness whatsoever and it's still beer and some people still love it (another obvious problem might be beans selection). In coffee, some people love acidity and floral notes, other prefer bitterness and more "structured" notes. It's not a problem that he doesn't like them, but that's pretty much how he should present that.
@@cedric7049 So you've done shots like you describe using light roasted coffee, and the shots are not too sour? Or maybe I should rephrase that: If you have a light roasted coffee that you like and you pull a standard shot and also pull a turbo shot using the method you describe, is the turbo shot more or less sour than the standard, or are they roughly the same in terms of acidity?
@@pimacanyon6208 I've done it yes and I wouldn't say it's more sour. For me it's quite close to a standard shot in terms of sourness/bitterness. The main difference is that it loses a lot of body and gains clarity.
@@pimacanyon6208Big difference between “sour” and acidic. One is a bug, the other a feature.
my thesis before pressing play was: he'll change his pressure back to 9+ at the end. ✅. Turbo and Lavazza don't go well mr gourmet 😅. give it a try with something like SEY. Then again, it's not for everybody. I don't think it was meant to replace the classic syrupy shots.
Yeah I thought it sounded bollox too. Never bothered trying it.
You’re supped to use turbo shot for light roasts…not medium/dark like you are
Then it would taste even worse.
this was also my conclusion after trying on several different light roasts.
I'm glad that you are smart enough to know that a lower pressure is needed and courser grind to achieve a turbo shot. The amount of times I have seen people making a regular espresso and not ground fine enough and it pours in 15 seconds then they call it a "turbo shot" It bothers me. That ain't no turbo shot. That's just an under extracted espresso shot.
Personally I have had mixed results with turbo shots. Some have been okay but mostly not. The lack of texture and body I don't like. I much prefer a traditional espresso.
@@hawkeyehope That depends on the coffe and machine...
If your shot runs in 15 seconds it won’t have low extraction because of the crazy flowrate and high evenness. That’s the whole point of turbos.
Unless you don’t even hit low pressure, that is. So if anything, you can be too coarse and almost never to fine if your shot takes 15s.
@@davidfuller581 Of course, but then you give up control over brew speed. g/sec.
I sometimes find it very helpful adjusting the opv to hit a desired brew time at a specific pressure. That's includes when brewing at 9 bar as well.
@@RegrinderAlert Yeah... Your "unless" there is the problem. Which is exactly my point.
If you want espresso from under roasted coffee it gets you a drink closer to the pour overs those refined palettes are accustomed to. If you want lots of body roast darker, grind finer and pull longer
THIS!
Under roasted?
Underroasted?
@@RegrinderAlert he’s not using under roasted beans. Look at that shot. But he’s made it. Lear how he feels about light roast espresso
❤
I prefer turbos in cars, not coffee
When you said
When experts do this is it pure “genius “ that translates to Pure “Gibberish “ 😇🖖🏼
2:28 That’s a very coarse grind. 😉
Doh! Had a feeling I was forgetting something...
@@wiredgourmet Sorry to rain on your video, but that is not the turbo shot recipe. It's 15g to 40g. 1 to 2.66 ratio not 1 to 3.
The difference is negligible.
@@wiredgourmet No, it's not! 2,67 rato and a 3.00 ratio is a marked difference. It's not sour..
I know you're trying to be helpful, but recipes are a minor variable dwarfed by the high degree of variability in coffee density, cultivar, altitude, climate, roast level, grinder (EK 43 in my case), water mineral content, and basket shape and style. Those are are all factors too. The diff between 1:2.6 and 1:3 is negligible in this context.
Skill issue
the water debit for a turbo shot should be 4,5ml/sec...your setting is way off
I'm pulling at ~2.9 ml / sec, as shown in the video. How is that "way off"? [edit, expressed ratio backward, lol] Five ml/sec would give you 75 ml in 15 secs!
@@davidfuller581 explain
@@davidfuller581 so explain how this guy is doing it wrong as stated at the start of this thread
@killerhornist flow rate from a pump is constant and the pressure is dictated by a needle valve on a rotary pump and an OPV on a vibration pump. Unless your referring to a group head tap fitted to the mushroom of the e61?
And even if debit was at your suggested flow rate you'd still need to reduce the pressure from the pump
I always thought the "turbo shot" was just a silly fad for the coffee hipster people who need to keep changing things and tell you how much more they know about stuff than you do, I prefer the longer shots with lower pressure if I feel like playing about as at least you are far more likely to get something drinkable.
You’re my soulmate
@@davidfuller581 I find the opposite, all the sour acidity comes out and to get any balance you have to pull so long you may as well have a pourover! The thin body takes away one of the joys of espresso too, I stand by my assertion 100%, the fact that nobody talks about them anymore just proves it was a fad, if it was any good it would be a new standard.
turbo-shot sounds like something very american to do. but i admit, im'm very biased against fruity and acidic notes in coffee, i mean, just drink tea with some lemon juice, if you like it that way.
Thats why its a hipster thing, they all like super light roasts which gives you a battery acid shot, normal people won't like this shit so they can continue their "Emperors new clothes" only we like it cos we have soooooooo sophisticated tastes that you can't possibly understand.
@@Thetache I agree with you that some people are way too full of themselves when it comes to new style coffee roasts, but let's focus on not making this some sort of gate keeping situation.
Turbo shots are for those who want to make light roast filter with all the “influencer espresso toys” and appear edgy and so ahead of everyone, like pulling proper shots is so 2020. But i should add that without giving everything weird labels if a 15 second 1:3 shot tastes better than any other recipe then just go for it and enjoy
Lol
Oh, you, very very manly man...
@@hothead8268 oh did i hurt your ego or something? If you want filter why not play with filter toys? Why buy a whole lot of espresso toys and NOT make espresso but make filter instead…
@@jurgenzielmann1108I see you have changed your original comment... Anyways, I don't have a lot of espresso toys. I just found your original comment arrogant and smug .
Why would me saying that you make filter with your espresso toys because you can’t handle the intensity of espresso make me sound like that? You probably had one too many espr…filt…I mean _turbo_ shots today anon. I changed my comment because i had more to say and so that fragile turboboys don’t get all hurt and snappy in the comments, you know anon? Now, let us both go touch some grass and enjoy whatever it is we like
It’s like a miracle