LINKS OF INTEREST FROM THE VIDEO: General Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store Murder Hornet T-Shirt: teespring.com/new-american-murder-hornet-f-a?pid=2&cid=2397 Murder Hornet Hoodie: teespring.com/american-murder-hornet-f-a-18c?tsmac=store&tsmic=growling-sidewinder-store&pid=227&cid=2664 F-16 HUD Hoodie: teespring.com/classic-hoodie-f-16-viper-vs-m?tsmac=store&tsmic=growling-sidewinder-store&pid=212&cid=5819 So I just wanted to be super clear, this is just my humble opinion on whats the best BVR platform in DCS, I know a lot of guys will live and die by the F-15 and the F-14 and you know, whatever you like man, at the end of the day its just about having fun and getting your kills. I just think the situational awareness and the amazing thrust to weight ratio of the F-16 make it such a dominant platform its honestly my number 1 aircraft on the server, and please guys if you are in an AMRAAM capable aircraft please, for the love of god fly higher, do yourself a favor and give yourself some altitude I promise it will make your life easier.
Hahaha long time ago my Grandfather told me the story of him getting pulled over for speeding. Cop came up and said "Sir, can I see your pilots license... you were flying!" he pulled his private pilot's license out. The had a chuckle over it. Let him off with a warning for 30 over LOL
Maaan, if only we had Fox-3s in the Mirage. That thing runs circles around Eagles and Vipers up at angels 50. That pure delta wing is just so slick at high mach numbers. But it doesn't have a missile. If you could hang AMRAAMs on the Mirage, I could make the Viper some offers it can't refuse. I have a video on my channel of me shooting down an AWACS with the Mirage and every single plane on the enemy team going full surprised-Pikachu watching me just motor around them and disappear into the distance.
@@JETZcorp i was considering purchasing the Mirage for the delta wing dogfight experience until they announced that. Ill wait a few years for sure but I just hope it at least has Aim 120cs at EA.
I'm a hornet guy but every time I get in the 16 I'm amazed by how badly that thing wants to fly. Like you just tap the throttle and you're out of the hanger.
Hillaker had quite a lot to say about that as it turns out. They designed the Viper with the F-15 engine, as a given as John Boyd had given a lot of input into that engine and liked it, so they worked the efficiency end of the design with energy a given, and to great effect IMHO. When more powerful engines came along the efficiency just kept coming, which is why you can strap so much crap onto a Viper and it still flies like a homesick angel. This does bring up 2 important questions though. What effect to CFTs have on basic Viper performance given you get to leave a drop tank or two at home AND free up stores, and why the hell doesn't the USAF use them?
Finally some stats and evidence that flying high and fast is actually more effective and realistic than down at treetop level. Every time I watch twitch streams or videos and everyone is flying at 100 feet, I cringe and laugh as it’s so in-realistic and arcadish. Low is for evading SAM and air to air missle launches. Great video man, well done😎
but 18 kind of struggle to get both high and fast. barely able to reach mach 1 with burnner. For other western fighter tho, getting low is kind of wasting what You have.
Well you'll have aircraft such as the mig-21, and mirage 2k who's best bet is to stay low and pop up over the mountain and catch them with a quick radar lock, fire a missile and them dip back down out of their radar as they get hit.
There's other reason to stay high above as long as possible. It's extremely fuel effective. If someone shoots a missile at you head on, just fox 3, nose down 15-25 degrees, turn to max radar's gimbal limits and turn cold once missile goes pitbull and drop chaff while turning cold. Extremely safe.
Agreed. Also, if you need to light the blower a lot, it's amazing the difference in how much less fuel you use at Angels 40+ as opposed to Angels 15-....unreal.
Good stuff. The only "last resort" but fairly effective defensive maneuver when low and slow in a Hornet and being launched on from a high bandit is to use the good nose authority of the Hornet and get into a slow notch immediately. Mach 0.4 and slower, drop chaff, works like 99% of the time.
@@牛鸿鸿 Not really, the notchgate and chaff is really only something older radar used to fall for, against modern stuff it's of very minimal use or at least a very high risk to take, all things considered.
I like the battle damage assessments, fun to see who gets killed and in what plane. I'd also love to see more clearly explained how exactly you use the SA and radar in their different modes on your PVP server (also in the Hornet), having trouble getting/keeping the locks there. Thanks.
Your videos are like some sort of history channel, but only the good bits. Absolutely love them. You have such a calm and smooth voice, i can lay down grab some popcorn and just enjoy the show!
I should try the f16 more. I cant get many kills with the f18. Most of the time i am 0,9-1 mach. Maybe the same video with f18? Would be interesting how you fly that thing on your server.
2 amraams is not nearly enough, but the point of light loadouts is valid. I find that 6x amraam is a comfortable spot, plus however much fuel you want.
When operating from a carrier always bring a fuel tank on your center fuselage pylon. There's always a chance where you screw up on final and have to bolter. And if you are going for AG, make sure you have atleast 1 guy that could provide AA cover.
When other pilots started coming after you, it reminded me of Harlan Ellison's "Along The Scenic Route." You should read it. It's about what happens when you're good (or appear to be good) at killing people. (Appeared in his anthology, "The Deathbird Stories.")
Good video for BVR learning. 1 thing I worry about is F-16's air intake's effect(I heard F-16's intake design is not for over 30〜35k ft alt but it's not modeled in DCS. It means some day in future F-16 in DCS can lose the advantage which described on this video).
Wish they'd make a 2007 era F-15C with Link 16, MIDS display and JHMCS/AIM-9x. That'd be a kinematic beast with a large weapons load and persistence....
ionator2000ist I was actually thinking similarly, that if they allow you to remove the CFT off the Beagle then that might be an epic BVR Jet. Especially if they have the -229 motors...
First off: I think the ejection from that F-14 you were double-teaming around the 23 minute mark was Jester bailing on the pilot after guns hits from the friendly F-16. Jester absolutely loves pulling the loud handle, from what I can tell! Second off: what's your strategy in the Viper when you don't have a standoff range advantage? Eg. if you're at 35k travelling at high mach and you have an F-15C at angels 35 for 50 miles that's nose hot at Mach 1.6, where your weapons range and MAR are roughly symmetric with his, are you going to launch from afar, then support the missile until you hit the MAR and then break defensive, and then recommit once his missile's trashed (and repeat this until one of you is dead)? Does the answer change in a situation (probably the only one) where you're at a disadvantage wrt. missile range and MAR, eg. an F-14B 70 miles out nose-hot at angels 35 going mach 1.6? Do you try to play chicken with a long-range AMRAAM launch once you get within parameters (accepting that there may be an AIM-54C that's already travelled a fair ways toward you), or do you assume he's launched in TWS early and maintaining lock and thus bail without launching and try another angle?
GS has a video on fighting the AIM-54C ruclips.net/video/HotwO-73bAo/видео.html. You must notch the missle by flying perpendicular to its nose. In an F-15 fight you still have an advantage due to data link. You can turn around dive, for the deck, lose lock, etc. and never lose situation awareness. The F-15 does not have that advantage. Otherwise it is all up to pilot skill. Fly the F and don't spend more than a second inside the MAR.
GS, I got a video suggestion for ya: Some Harrier A2A action, kinda like during the Falklands conflict. I know you made a video on it before, but I think some DCS footage to go with it would be pretty sweet. Just a fun idea, lemme know what you think. Aaand great video as always :)
The viper's current dominance is (partly) due to quite a few major inaccuracies in it's current state: 1. F-16 radar overperformance, max detection for APG-68 RWS (not SAM or tws) is around 100km for 5m RCS. clean hornet is 1-3m, lets call it 5m with amraams. In game you can lock hornets at 150km no problem. 2. Zero limitations on external stores, mach 1.5 and 9g with 3 bags? no problem. most DCS pilots dont even know what CAT III is. (this is a big one) 3. ED's air density modelling falls apart at high (40k+) altitudes, enabling kinematics that will make you laugh when missiles loft up into the 50-65k range. 4. ECM modelling is, non existant in most cases and laughable in others, allowing best possible performance from viper's tiny radar. i could go on but you get the point, missions in airquake servers are short range, which further benefits the viper as it can go zone 5 all the way to bulls launch 6 amraams and go home laughing. I find myself enjoying the more realistic missions and even playing solo campaigns just because of the silliness of the multiplayer meta in its current state.
There's also another reason: Newbies ignore the physics involved, they simply don't understand why high and fast bandits armed with fox3s are dangerous. They don't know how to counter them either.
The Viper is completely capable of 9Gs with bags, CAT III is not a G-Limiter, it's an AoA and roll rate limiter. Radar is over performing but even with realistic radar performance the Viper will still dominate the Hornet in BVR because the Hornet doesn't have the kinematics to take advantage of its superior radar (I realize you didn't reference the Hornet but it's mostly Viper vs Hornet on GS server so I just felt it would be relevant). The Viper actually has very similar range to the Hornet as long as you aren't in full burner going through 80,000 PPH; it is more fuel efficient than the Hornet so the fuel capacity disadvantage is mitigated quite a bit. This is also magnified by the Viper just being a faster plane at all altitudes by quite a decent margin. Neither aircraft has particularly long legs.
1) RCS depending alot on aspect as well, a side way F-18 can easily have RCS over 10 m2. There are also varius APG-68 version though 2) F-16 can reach Mach 1.8 with Drag index of 50 so it is possible that it can reach Mach 1.7 with 3 fuel tanks
We Turks are manufacturer and also user of F-16 but I always thought like "its single engine antique, cant do much" so I was looking for ur BVR, I'm completly suprised. Thx for the video ^^
I’ve been on the server today with some success! F18 with no Pylons just two ac and a centre tank, which I jettisoned before engaging. I was able to maintain climb at ultra sonic and I actually took out a few f16s
It's amazing how much you can do with good old fashioned speed and power. One thing I used to do on your server all the time was hop in a Mirage and kill the Blue AWACS. By the time I got into their airspace I was at mach 2 and angels 55 at least. No one could catch it. Worst case someone in an Eagle would pop up directly in front, but even then I had the energy to literally fly a circle around him and leave him behind. It felt like flying an SR-71. If that airplane had a fox-3 capability there would be blood in the streets.
So the other day I finally dusted off DCS and dipped into the server for the first time in about a year. Decided to take up the F-15C because I've been flying it with the same HOTAS config since Flaming Cliffs 1 so I would have the minimum of control SNAFUs with it. It was like 2am and almost no one was on, except one guy in a Viper. Flew around for a while without seeing him, but eventually AWACS called the Viper coming in from the mountains at Angels 40. So I went to Angels 40. He went to 45, I went to 45. HUD showed our rate of closure was completely insane - I was deep into the mach numbers and so was he. The Slammers start going back and forth. I haven't flown at all since the AMRAAM buff so I'm worried about the actives on the RWR, and turn cold defensive. I summon up the stones to turn back around, come over the top still supersonic, and wayyy off in the distance there's a wee column of black smoke down in the mountains. God damn I love that Eagle.
Awesome video 😎 👏 Keep up the good work. Mixing it up with BVR (2vs2, 4vs4, open) videos is nice and refreshing, love it. Ps keep the battle damage assessment on. Agreed, it’s good to know what you’ve hit for the video and tutorial sake.
Great showing! By the way this is what the fighter mafia under Col Boyd designed this Saber type successor to do. Instead of loading it down with a helva load of crap and killing the wing life span to boot. I wish the AF brass would have acquired and maintained a large fleet of A10s for AG. Kind of sad really that’s what the fighter mafia group designed the A-10 to do in the first place vs it’s pure thoroughbred fighter the F-16.
I joined right at the end, LoL. And I Forgot to ask about C.W. Lemoine. Which was also a Viper pilot. Sad I didn't got there in time to do anything but I'll take some tips and practice some ways to setup my engagements like going Mach 2 in the Tomcat at angels 40 and just spam Phoenixes at 60 miles :D
My first honest PVP kills were two Eagles I splashed from 50nm with the Viper in a 2 vs 2 BVR tournament. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing at the time but I had accidentally stumbled on the "How to murder anybody" formula. then got an actual lesson on it by Feisty and haven't been shot down in BVR since (although have been forced to disengage due to fuel a few times because my opponent figured it out).
I get the "High & Fast" mantra during initial ingress, but what happens after your first defensive dive? You twice in this video describe high targets as "juicy targets", which makes sense to me, so curious, what is the appropriate behavior after defensive maneuvers take you down to the deck? In your 19:4 hit-to-kill ratio, how did you die on those 4 occasions? The reason I ask is bc there's little point in having a huge quiver like the Eagle if after a few AIM-120s go off the rails at high altitude they can only be used at great peril after hitting the deck in defense. This goes to the question of optimal aircraft size/carry. Is the Viper actually a better BVR investment than the Eagle, even if the Eagle had comparable SA and BVR capabilities? Should the USAF be investing in the F-15EX? Is a pairing of Eagles and Vipers the optimal deployment?
Wonder if the F-15E will be able to be on par with the F-16 in BVR. The datalink on the F-15E will be the so awesome. The F-15C is very nice, but the lack of DL keeps it only useful if he's nose hot or if he knows where to look with the radar.
my radar never locks this fast, the white boxes pop in and out and inspite of waiting to TMS up inside 25 miles, it still rarely locks up until inside 15 mile. I definitely have a lot to learn here.
The radar is extremely difficult to build a good SA in the Tomcat. Jester is really bad at looking off the axis of the nose, and it takes a lot of practice for a human RIO to penetrate the fog of false and duplicate contacts. Plus as someone else said, that radar has a HUGE notch filter that's very easy to hide in. Now if we had an F-14D, which has similar tech avionics to the others (just with more power!) then you'd have a real beastie.
I have both modules and would take the F-14 over the F-16 any day. It has greater range, can carry more missiles and you can land on the carrier. At short range I can lock and launch on several targets in under 5 seconds. Just. My opinion.
@@aviationfreak9392 TWS mode on the '16 supports using Link 16 to bug targets your radar doesn't have a full track file on, you can launch all of your 'raams as fast as you can TMS right, the 14 is great, but she's not got the hilarious situational awareness and ease of use for the FCR the 16 has.
Hey very nice Video, i will check it out :) One question: at rws the ememy will get a log warning and when you shooting a missile warning right? So why no tws using ? Cheers and thanks
I just saw the other day a video from a good DCS youtuber, and the got a mission where a combined attack force against a surface fleet. Well, they got F-14s, F-18s, SAABs, AV-88s, etc, a lot of planes I mean; and for a reason I don´t undestood at time, they all went on close formation at Mach 0.7 and 3000 feets or lower (on the middle of the ocean). Suddenly just 2 SU-33 coming at Mach 2 and 40 k feet starting to "Fox-1" on them. I do not need to say you all the F-14 and F-18 whit their SPAMRRAMS and Phoenix just did disapear from the sky in about 3 minutes. Flying low and slow its a practice that many people use and I do not know why.
Thanks for this video it honestly helps I am kind of new to DCS and I have played on this server before but never knew really how to play pvp with the f16.
what about some of the climbing method ive heard about with the f-15? do they translate to the f-16? Where start at level flight > go full burner upto mach 0.96 > pitch up to between 45-50 degrees creating as little alpha as possible and then dropping back down to -5 degrees as you approach mach 0.80 and rinse/repeat. supposedly that is the f-15's most efficient way to climb. i dont about with bags or not. maybe you might know?
I'd guess the guys you're wasting want the BDA window OFF! Great vid as usual. PS Was fun to see you give the Mirage pilot a run for his money on those recent vids and even get a few kills. He was so aggressive, giving no room to breathe
f16 is better only because it has datalink. in real life the F-15 is probably better because they also have datalink but in DCS they dont. so F-16 is better.
Old video ik, but the way i verbalise bvr (and just combat in general) in this thing is you arent trying to deploy ordinance. Your trying to grab the missile or bomb by the ass and hurl it as hard as you possibly can towards the target.
It's designed in a decade are American Girls hot and stylish .... The F35 are designed in a decade are American Girls eats yunk food and they are fat as Hell. I have a Frind they are was in Holliday in US... first Time he was dold me that I can't believe. He was in a Supermarket, and he saw a fat Chick they wear a Jens, you can but a DIN A4 Letter in the Back Pocket off that Jeans.... FUCK 😬😬😬. That Ass ....
IMO, you should let the BDA window on in multiplayer pvp fights or training fights and switch it off only when flying "story-driven" missions. Very useful in BVR environments to see whats happening, but when you need to crank the immersion to max, it has to go.
3 Syrian planes shot down by fox 3's. 2 of em was su-24's and one was L-39. AWACS patrolling on the Syrian border detected Syrian jets then F-16 scramble and send fox3's. Like you said it was a long range and almost at the edge of AIM-120's maximum range. So along the way AMRAAM's guided by AWACS's radar so Syrian jets didnt get notification of radar lock. So missiles in a way flied silence and then went pitbull and splashed bombers.
Thank you for another interesting and informative video. You have such a great ability at explaining things in depth and yet so easily understood. I really enjoy watching your videos. Maybe you can hire help and take your style and channel to the next level. Thanks again.
Sometimes I think it's better to stay at a medium altitude to use Terrain masking better. Question: You used RWS, does the enemy get a lock warning? That's the reason I use TWS but sometimes it´s harder to lock the bandits.
Unless if you do not understand energy fight and read the whole situation very well. Flying this high speed will only consume your fuel very fast and u still can get shot down with no kills.
I wish they would really model the F-15C and the Superhornet. I hear the F-15E is coming out but it's not optimized for air to air. Those are the real non-stealthy 4th generation US king of BVR. I'm wondering which one is the most advanced: The SH with the lower RCS or the F-15 with the better high and fast performance? Both should be better than the F-16 in the real world. Am I right?
Yes please activate the kill confirm mini screen on the server if it is possible. Its specially usefull if you are streaming or recording some video to keep your audience aware about what is happening
How do you enable battle damage assessment? And how long can you typically stay in the air sitting in burner basically the whole time? It seems to me that it is not a suitable tactic to adopt in CAP, or at least needs to be modified so that you can transition into this mode of flight. Would be nice to know at what range / point in target acquisition / flight you should make a transition to full burner and climbing etc. Usually I end up sitting around 20-25k feet going fairly slow, until I have a target, at which point I will do the 5-7 nose up full burner climb to gain as much speed and altitude on my target as possible.
How long can you stay airborne with full afterburner and two tanks. I also noticed you never put your the little lead ring into your amraam ring, as this should if possible be in the center, is there no point in this, just trying to learn the viper.
7-8mins at high altitude will full burner as for the ring that’s a good idea to maximize the missiles range I use it at long distances so the missile doesn’t have to turn as hard and lose energy when ur close tho it doesn’t matter really the missile has more than enough energy to make the turn and still hit the target.
I have been playing this a heap and love it as a bvr fighter I'm just disappointed it can only carry only 4 aim120 but I love the SA it this you just know where everything is
The F-16 can carry 6 AMRAAM, not 4. Ditch the heaters, they're worthless for most situations, especially if you use HMCS in DOGFIGHT mode to lock up targets that are off-bore. They are actually *better* in that situation, as they lock easier and have a lot more range/energy when let off the rails.
We saw how a Mirage can dominate air with another delta wing aircarft's pilot. I wonder how a fast machine like F-16 fight in a dogfight flew by a real pilot. There is a man called C. W. Lemoine who is a former F-16 pilot. If you reach him out it 'd be perfect to see both radius-fighter and rate-fighter pilots' way to dogfight.
Seems like nothing changed since WW2. Altitude and speed is king. When i started getting familiar with modern air combat, the whole advent of radar, doppler effect and terrain masking gave the impression that the nature of air combat has changed. But watching this video just proves otherwise. Certainly terrain masking has its use but it would appear that in a dogfight you still prefer altitude and speed due to the energy advantage. Every thing you do uses energy, so having more starting energy is always good.
GR, why didnt you use tws? other than getting notched and it losing lock at farther ranges, the lack of rwr warning makes it really useful in my opinion
Thank you so much for this. I am always getting shot down and wondering what I am doing wrong. I was afraid of AB and tried to sip fuel while I pussy footed around at 450-500kts. I'm excited to get home and try out this new tactic.
So what do you think about the flight model / engine performance of the Viper? Must take forever to get up to m1.4 at angels 37.. how crazy will she be when she's getting true to the numbers we got from the real thing?
So it’s my impression that the real thing performs a little better than we see here I think in real life it’s a breeze for the f-16 to get to Mach 1.4 at 37k feet
@@GrowlingSidewinder Can you please do an update of this, and also the "Best Fighter in DCS" Video where you said the Viper wins, corrected for the "correct-as-is" DCS FCR range of 40nm? I feel that severely hinders its BVR performance.
Could you show what would happens if you went up against a Rockwell B-1B Lancer? For example, you are defending and the B-1B attacking a target? Would you be able to find and kill it?
The BDA is a very nice thing, isn't it ? I love it to see the name of the pilot that i have shooted down. It remembers me allways that i shooted down a player and not a AI
LINKS OF INTEREST FROM THE VIDEO:
General Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store
Murder Hornet T-Shirt: teespring.com/new-american-murder-hornet-f-a?pid=2&cid=2397
Murder Hornet Hoodie: teespring.com/american-murder-hornet-f-a-18c?tsmac=store&tsmic=growling-sidewinder-store&pid=227&cid=2664
F-16 HUD Hoodie: teespring.com/classic-hoodie-f-16-viper-vs-m?tsmac=store&tsmic=growling-sidewinder-store&pid=212&cid=5819
So I just wanted to be super clear, this is just my humble opinion on whats the best BVR platform in DCS, I know a lot of guys will live and die by the F-15 and the F-14 and you know, whatever you like man, at the end of the day its just about having fun and getting your kills. I just think the situational awareness and the amazing thrust to weight ratio of the F-16 make it such a dominant platform its honestly my number 1 aircraft on the server, and please guys if you are in an AMRAAM capable aircraft please, for the love of god fly higher, do yourself a favor and give yourself some altitude I promise it will make your life easier.
How u holding up in this pandemic.....???
Love your videos man, keep em coming and i'll keep like/comment
ROC AF No. 1
Hey man. Would love to talk to you 1 on 1 some time. Maybe fly together. I want to learn. Im not a complete noob and do ok but can be better.
You got 4 kills but did you make it back home or run out of fuel?
GS: Gets pulled over by cop.
Cop: "Sir, Do you know how fast you were going?"
GS: "Anything below Mach 1 is slow."
🤣
@@IcePhoenix_yt hello you new around this Air Force
Hahaha long time ago my Grandfather told me the story of him getting pulled over for speeding. Cop came up and said "Sir, can I see your pilots license... you were flying!" he pulled his private pilot's license out. The had a chuckle over it. Let him off with a warning for 30 over LOL
BVR in any other aircraft : Beyond Visual Range
BVR in the Viper : Better Velocity than the Rest
Good one!
Maaan, if only we had Fox-3s in the Mirage. That thing runs circles around Eagles and Vipers up at angels 50. That pure delta wing is just so slick at high mach numbers. But it doesn't have a missile. If you could hang AMRAAMs on the Mirage, I could make the Viper some offers it can't refuse. I have a video on my channel of me shooting down an AWACS with the Mirage and every single plane on the enemy team going full surprised-Pikachu watching me just motor around them and disappear into the distance.
@@JETZcorp Typhoon is on the way. But that'll be another 2 or 3 years before 1st stage of EA.
@@arguywindham1101 Oof, that thing is going to be nuts, especially if they go for the full burrito with Meteors.
@@JETZcorp i was considering purchasing the Mirage for the delta wing dogfight experience until they announced that. Ill wait a few years for sure but I just hope it at least has Aim 120cs at EA.
I'm a hornet guy but every time I get in the 16 I'm amazed by how badly that thing wants to fly. Like you just tap the throttle and you're out of the hanger.
And it's only a single engine too.
Hillaker had quite a lot to say about that as it turns out. They designed the Viper with the F-15 engine, as a given as John Boyd had given a lot of input into that engine and liked it, so they worked the efficiency end of the design with energy a given, and to great effect IMHO. When more powerful engines came along the efficiency just kept coming, which is why you can strap so much crap onto a Viper and it still flies like a homesick angel.
This does bring up 2 important questions though. What effect to CFTs have on basic Viper performance given you get to leave a drop tank or two at home AND free up stores, and why the hell doesn't the USAF use them?
I've just had this inexplicable sexual attraction to the F-16 for decades.
yeah we all do
@bobbiebob575 bob I do not, still like it though
YES!
Give it some Ducati colors
Haven't we all?
Finally some stats and evidence that flying high and fast is actually more effective and realistic than down at treetop level. Every time I watch twitch streams or videos and everyone is flying at 100 feet, I cringe and laugh as it’s so in-realistic and arcadish. Low is for evading SAM and air to air missle launches. Great video man, well done😎
but 18 kind of struggle to get both high and fast. barely able to reach mach 1 with burnner. For other western fighter tho, getting low is kind of wasting what You have.
@@Wyvern1-1 Mirage 2000: Seems that Im not a western fighter T_T.
Well you'll have aircraft such as the mig-21, and mirage 2k who's best bet is to stay low and pop up over the mountain and catch them with a quick radar lock, fire a missile and them dip back down out of their radar as they get hit.
@@牛鸿鸿 well, have never flown one, don't really know what's it like.
I read somewhere the USAF said the whole purpose of the F-22 was to take back the skies. USAF was sick and tired of hugging the mud.
FINALLY A BVR VIDEO THANKS SO MUCH :3
uwu
Yesss
Somebody forgot to turn off caps
There's other reason to stay high above as long as possible. It's extremely fuel effective. If someone shoots a missile at you head on, just fox 3, nose down 15-25 degrees, turn to max radar's gimbal limits and turn cold once missile goes pitbull and drop chaff while turning cold. Extremely safe.
Agreed. Also, if you need to light the blower a lot, it's amazing the difference in how much less fuel you use at Angels 40+ as opposed to Angels 15-....unreal.
theres nothing fuel efficient about zone 5, at any altitude.
What turns turn cold mean? Is it turning the radar off temporarily?
@@JoshHarris88 to turn away from the bandit
"RUclips? Hi, I'd like to report bullying." Those kids never stood a chance 😂
The moment I heard PVP and Viper, I already felt bad for everyone you splashed.
they didnt die in vain, hopefully people can learn something from their sacrifice.
Growling Sidewinder can u turn off battle damage assessment in game thanks in advance for the reply
Loses a amraam: No big deal
Amraaam: I WAS BULLIED AND DEVALUED
Me: That's my virtual tax money and it costs over 300,000 on the cheap end.
Good stuff. The only "last resort" but fairly effective defensive maneuver when low and slow in a Hornet and being launched on from a high bandit is to use the good nose authority of the Hornet and get into a slow notch immediately. Mach 0.4 and slower, drop chaff, works like 99% of the time.
True, slowness is apparently a good friend of chaff in dcs, I dont know if its real enough.
@@牛鸿鸿 Not really, the notchgate and chaff is really only something older radar used to fall for, against modern stuff it's of very minimal use or at least a very high risk to take, all things considered.
@@Kolobochok95 yeah,true, thats why i never use the slow plus notch tactic like ai does. Its too passive and vulnerable.
@@牛鸿鸿 it's pretty reliable in DCS, With a high alpha, snaptshot airframe like the Hornet or 29 it can be really effective,
The F-16 is hands down the best looking fighter ever made. beautiful from every angle.
fulcrum is a better looking plane for sure.
I like the battle damage assessments, fun to see who gets killed and in what plane. I'd also love to see more clearly explained how exactly you use the SA and radar in their different modes on your PVP server (also in the Hornet), having trouble getting/keeping the locks there. Thanks.
Your videos are like some sort of history channel, but only the good bits. Absolutely love them. You have such a calm and smooth voice, i can lay down grab some popcorn and just enjoy the show!
I should try the f16 more. I cant get many kills with the f18. Most of the time i am 0,9-1 mach. Maybe the same video with f18? Would be interesting how you fly that thing on your server.
2 amraams is not nearly enough, but the point of light loadouts is valid. I find that 6x amraam is a comfortable spot, plus however much fuel you want.
When operating from a carrier always bring a fuel tank on your center fuselage pylon. There's always a chance where you screw up on final and have to bolter.
And if you are going for AG, make sure you have atleast 1 guy that could provide AA cover.
U make it look so easy. Explaining some things, enjoying the sun in the canopy, sideways u splash some Bandits and just having a blast. Cool vid :)
When other pilots started coming after you, it reminded me of Harlan Ellison's "Along The Scenic Route." You should read it. It's about what happens when you're good (or appear to be good) at killing people. (Appeared in his anthology, "The Deathbird Stories.")
Good video for BVR learning. 1 thing I worry about is F-16's air intake's effect(I heard F-16's intake design is not for over 30〜35k ft alt but it's not modeled in DCS. It means some day in future F-16 in DCS can lose the advantage which described on this video).
Wish they'd make a 2007 era F-15C with Link 16, MIDS display and JHMCS/AIM-9x. That'd be a kinematic beast with a large weapons load and persistence....
(F-15E) Am I a joke to you?
ionator2000ist I was actually thinking similarly, that if they allow you to remove the CFT off the Beagle then that might be an epic BVR Jet. Especially if they have the -229 motors...
GS: "You have to fly high" also GS: "I love those juicy high targets..." Coincidence?
Just hearing you talk plainly about BVR helps me get a better idea of how to get better at it. Thanks.
I think if you upload the video in 4k it reduces the compression in all resolutions not sure about it though but it might be worth looking into
RUclips gives vp9 codec to almost everyone now. The compression is as good as it gets for 1080p
First off: I think the ejection from that F-14 you were double-teaming around the 23 minute mark was Jester bailing on the pilot after guns hits from the friendly F-16. Jester absolutely loves pulling the loud handle, from what I can tell!
Second off: what's your strategy in the Viper when you don't have a standoff range advantage? Eg. if you're at 35k travelling at high mach and you have an F-15C at angels 35 for 50 miles that's nose hot at Mach 1.6, where your weapons range and MAR are roughly symmetric with his, are you going to launch from afar, then support the missile until you hit the MAR and then break defensive, and then recommit once his missile's trashed (and repeat this until one of you is dead)?
Does the answer change in a situation (probably the only one) where you're at a disadvantage wrt. missile range and MAR, eg. an F-14B 70 miles out nose-hot at angels 35 going mach 1.6? Do you try to play chicken with a long-range AMRAAM launch once you get within parameters (accepting that there may be an AIM-54C that's already travelled a fair ways toward you), or do you assume he's launched in TWS early and maintaining lock and thus bail without launching and try another angle?
GS has a video on fighting the AIM-54C ruclips.net/video/HotwO-73bAo/видео.html. You must notch the missle by flying perpendicular to its nose. In an F-15 fight you still have an advantage due to data link. You can turn around dive, for the deck, lose lock, etc. and never lose situation awareness. The F-15 does not have that advantage. Otherwise it is all up to pilot skill. Fly the F and don't spend more than a second inside the MAR.
“Aspen, if you’re watching this I don’t mean to rag on you dude”, but....lol 😂
Dont worry, Just sent it to him as hes in my squadron. He will be watching it very soon!! 😂😂😂
jycannel 😂🤣😂
This is a very high quality channel . Very good content , well explained by an extremely competent pilot . Great stuff !
FANTASTIC BVR VIDEO! Thanks for making ALL F16s in the GS server wiser.
GS, I got a video suggestion for ya: Some Harrier A2A action, kinda like during the Falklands conflict. I know you made a video on it before, but I think some DCS footage to go with it would be pretty sweet. Just a fun idea, lemme know what you think. Aaand great video as always :)
Amazing video!
Now I finally know why I always got shot in the face when I flying 100ft above the tree line in the Growling Sidewinder's server...
The viper's current dominance is (partly) due to quite a few major inaccuracies in it's current state:
1. F-16 radar overperformance, max detection for APG-68 RWS (not SAM or tws) is around 100km for 5m RCS. clean hornet is 1-3m, lets call it 5m with amraams. In game you can lock hornets at 150km no problem.
2. Zero limitations on external stores, mach 1.5 and 9g with 3 bags? no problem. most DCS pilots dont even know what CAT III is. (this is a big one)
3. ED's air density modelling falls apart at high (40k+) altitudes, enabling kinematics that will make you laugh when missiles loft up into the 50-65k range.
4. ECM modelling is, non existant in most cases and laughable in others, allowing best possible performance from viper's tiny radar.
i could go on but you get the point, missions in airquake servers are short range, which further benefits the viper as it can go zone 5 all the way to bulls launch 6 amraams and go home laughing. I find myself enjoying the more realistic missions and even playing solo campaigns just because of the silliness of the multiplayer meta in its current state.
There's also another reason: Newbies ignore the physics involved, they simply don't understand why high and fast bandits armed with fox3s are dangerous.
They don't know how to counter them either.
The Viper is completely capable of 9Gs with bags, CAT III is not a G-Limiter, it's an AoA and roll rate limiter. Radar is over performing but even with realistic radar performance the Viper will still dominate the Hornet in BVR because the Hornet doesn't have the kinematics to take advantage of its superior radar (I realize you didn't reference the Hornet but it's mostly Viper vs Hornet on GS server so I just felt it would be relevant). The Viper actually has very similar range to the Hornet as long as you aren't in full burner going through 80,000 PPH; it is more fuel efficient than the Hornet so the fuel capacity disadvantage is mitigated quite a bit. This is also magnified by the Viper just being a faster plane at all altitudes by quite a decent margin. Neither aircraft has particularly long legs.
1) RCS depending alot on aspect as well, a side way F-18 can easily have RCS over 10 m2. There are also varius APG-68 version though
2) F-16 can reach Mach 1.8 with Drag index of 50 so it is possible that it can reach Mach 1.7 with 3 fuel tanks
We Turks are manufacturer and also user of F-16 but I always thought like "its single engine antique, cant do much" so I was looking for ur BVR, I'm completly suprised. Thx for the video ^^
How nice to see Polish painting again. Is it just a coincidence or is there anything deeper in it? Maybe you feel some sentiment towards my country?
We definitely need more F-16 videos. I think this will be the next plane I get in DCS.
Its amazing to me how a plane that was supposed to be an unsophisticated lightweight day fighter morphed into such an awesome beast of a fighter!
F16:: Haha.. This is not even my final form
Okay I guess it’s time to start learning the viper. Not quit there in the hornet yet but might as well get started now. Thx for the tips 👍🏻
I’ve been on the server today with some success! F18 with no Pylons just two ac and a centre tank, which I jettisoned before engaging. I was able to maintain climb at ultra sonic and I actually took out a few f16s
It's amazing how much you can do with good old fashioned speed and power. One thing I used to do on your server all the time was hop in a Mirage and kill the Blue AWACS. By the time I got into their airspace I was at mach 2 and angels 55 at least. No one could catch it. Worst case someone in an Eagle would pop up directly in front, but even then I had the energy to literally fly a circle around him and leave him behind. It felt like flying an SR-71. If that airplane had a fox-3 capability there would be blood in the streets.
High altitude you say? That sounds like a ruse to trick us MiG-21 masochists!
There is just something so delicious about the F-16..
You deserve like 6 times the subscribers you have.
Top quality stuff.
So the other day I finally dusted off DCS and dipped into the server for the first time in about a year. Decided to take up the F-15C because I've been flying it with the same HOTAS config since Flaming Cliffs 1 so I would have the minimum of control SNAFUs with it. It was like 2am and almost no one was on, except one guy in a Viper. Flew around for a while without seeing him, but eventually AWACS called the Viper coming in from the mountains at Angels 40. So I went to Angels 40. He went to 45, I went to 45. HUD showed our rate of closure was completely insane - I was deep into the mach numbers and so was he. The Slammers start going back and forth. I haven't flown at all since the AMRAAM buff so I'm worried about the actives on the RWR, and turn cold defensive. I summon up the stones to turn back around, come over the top still supersonic, and wayyy off in the distance there's a wee column of black smoke down in the mountains.
God damn I love that Eagle.
my dad flew vipers for 24 and some odd years, very cool video!
Awesome video 😎 👏 Keep up the good work. Mixing it up with BVR (2vs2, 4vs4, open) videos is nice and refreshing, love it. Ps keep the battle damage assessment on. Agreed, it’s good to know what you’ve hit for the video and tutorial sake.
Great showing! By the way this is what the fighter mafia under Col Boyd designed this Saber type successor to do. Instead of loading it down with a helva load of crap and killing the wing life span to boot. I wish the AF brass would have acquired and maintained a large fleet of A10s for AG. Kind of sad really that’s what the fighter mafia group designed the A-10 to do in the first place vs it’s pure thoroughbred fighter the F-16.
I joined right at the end, LoL. And I Forgot to ask about C.W. Lemoine. Which was also a Viper pilot.
Sad I didn't got there in time to do anything but I'll take some tips and practice some ways to setup my engagements like going Mach 2 in the Tomcat at angels 40 and just spam Phoenixes at 60 miles :D
My first honest PVP kills were two Eagles I splashed from 50nm with the Viper in a 2 vs 2 BVR tournament. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing at the time but I had accidentally stumbled on the "How to murder anybody" formula. then got an actual lesson on it by Feisty and haven't been shot down in BVR since (although have been forced to disengage due to fuel a few times because my opponent figured it out).
Could you do something like this but with the F-15 or F-18 ? I love your content btw !
Or with F14
Cant imagine what it will be like with the typhoon...
Absolutely, Situational awareness is key! Nice job dude.
I get the "High & Fast" mantra during initial ingress, but what happens after your first defensive dive? You twice in this video describe high targets as "juicy targets", which makes sense to me, so curious, what is the appropriate behavior after defensive maneuvers take you down to the deck? In your 19:4 hit-to-kill ratio, how did you die on those 4 occasions?
The reason I ask is bc there's little point in having a huge quiver like the Eagle if after a few AIM-120s go off the rails at high altitude they can only be used at great peril after hitting the deck in defense. This goes to the question of optimal aircraft size/carry. Is the Viper actually a better BVR investment than the Eagle, even if the Eagle had comparable SA and BVR capabilities? Should the USAF be investing in the F-15EX? Is a pairing of Eagles and Vipers the optimal deployment?
I mostly fly the Tomcat and I can say that when going into a BVR engagement in anything else, I feel naked and alone.
combine you being good and SA of the F-16 and I'm sold on the product. Purchased & Subscribed!
Wonder if the F-15E will be able to be on par with the F-16 in BVR. The datalink on the F-15E will be the so awesome. The F-15C is very nice, but the lack of DL keeps it only useful if he's nose hot or if he knows where to look with the radar.
my radar never locks this fast, the white boxes pop in and out and inspite of waiting to TMS up inside 25 miles, it still rarely locks up until inside 15 mile. I definitely have a lot to learn here.
I thought the tomcat would be king with the phoenix missile.
The thing is, the phoenix was designed to shoot down bombers, not fighters.
@@jarhead1145 It still over performs against fighters in DCS
The radar is extremely difficult to build a good SA in the Tomcat. Jester is really bad at looking off the axis of the nose, and it takes a lot of practice for a human RIO to penetrate the fog of false and duplicate contacts. Plus as someone else said, that radar has a HUGE notch filter that's very easy to hide in. Now if we had an F-14D, which has similar tech avionics to the others (just with more power!) then you'd have a real beastie.
I have both modules and would take the F-14 over the F-16 any day. It has greater range, can carry more missiles and you can land on the carrier. At short range I can lock and launch on several targets in under 5 seconds. Just. My opinion.
@@aviationfreak9392 TWS mode on the '16 supports using Link 16 to bug targets your radar doesn't have a full track file on, you can launch all of your 'raams as fast as you can TMS right, the 14 is great, but she's not got the hilarious situational awareness and ease of use for the FCR the 16 has.
Hey very nice Video, i will check it out :)
One question: at rws the ememy will get a log warning and when you shooting a missile warning right?
So why no tws using ?
Cheers and thanks
Revealing and entertaining too. Interesting facts about the F-16 in BVR
I just saw the other day a video from a good DCS youtuber, and the got a mission where a combined attack force against a surface fleet. Well, they got F-14s, F-18s, SAABs, AV-88s, etc, a lot of planes I mean; and for a reason I don´t undestood at time, they all went on close formation at Mach 0.7 and 3000 feets or lower (on the middle of the ocean). Suddenly just 2 SU-33 coming at Mach 2 and 40 k feet starting to "Fox-1" on them. I do not need to say you all the F-14 and F-18 whit their SPAMRRAMS and Phoenix just did disapear from the sky in about 3 minutes.
Flying low and slow its a practice that many people use and I do not know why.
Thanks for this video it honestly helps I am kind of new to DCS and I have played on this server before but never knew really how to play pvp with the f16.
what about some of the climbing method ive heard about with the f-15? do they translate to the f-16? Where start at level flight > go full burner upto mach 0.96 > pitch up to between 45-50 degrees creating as little alpha as possible and then dropping back down to -5 degrees as you approach mach 0.80 and rinse/repeat. supposedly that is the f-15's most efficient way to climb. i dont about with bags or not. maybe you might know?
I'd guess the guys you're wasting want the BDA window OFF! Great vid as usual. PS Was fun to see you give the Mirage pilot a run for his money on those recent vids and even get a few kills. He was so aggressive, giving no room to breathe
Hey, love the videos. Just curious, do you think that the f15 or f16 is better for BVR?
f16 is better only because it has datalink. in real life the F-15 is probably better because they also have datalink but in DCS they dont. so F-16 is better.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Thanks, was discussing this with a friend.
Nothin like a good GS flyin around slappin people video
Old video ik, but the way i verbalise bvr (and just combat in general) in this thing is you arent trying to deploy ordinance.
Your trying to grab the missile or bomb by the ass and hurl it as hard as you possibly can towards the target.
23:19 that's jester no doubts..."Oh Shit! Eject!" That's what he says..
Why is the f 16 do beautiful?
It's designed in a decade are American Girls hot and stylish
.... The F35 are designed in a decade are American Girls eats yunk food and they are fat as Hell. I have a Frind they are was in Holliday in US... first Time he was dold me that I can't believe. He was in a Supermarket, and he saw a fat Chick they wear a Jens, you can but a DIN A4 Letter in the Back Pocket off that Jeans.... FUCK 😬😬😬. That Ass ....
Q for GS: When an AIM-120 lofts, fired from 50k ft, does TacView tell you what it's max altitude was? Very curious.
IMO, you should let the BDA window on in multiplayer pvp fights or training fights and switch it off only when flying "story-driven" missions. Very useful in BVR environments to see whats happening, but when you need to crank the immersion to max, it has to go.
Turkish F16 has shotdown last year 2 or 3 Syrian Su 25s with Fox 3 from at least 40 km on the border.
3 Syrian planes shot down by fox 3's. 2 of em was su-24's and one was L-39. AWACS patrolling on the Syrian border detected Syrian jets then F-16 scramble and send fox3's. Like you said it was a long range and almost at the edge of AIM-120's maximum range. So along the way AMRAAM's guided by AWACS's radar so Syrian jets didnt get notification of radar lock. So missiles in a way flied silence and then went pitbull and splashed bombers.
Pakistani F-16 shot down Indian Air Force's MiG-21 using FOX-3
Thank you for another interesting and informative video. You have such a great ability at explaining things in depth and yet so easily understood. I really enjoy watching your videos. Maybe you can hire help and take your style and channel to the next level. Thanks again.
Sometimes I think it's better to stay at a medium altitude to use Terrain masking better. Question: You used RWS, does the enemy get a lock warning? That's the reason I use TWS but sometimes it´s harder to lock the bandits.
Unless if you do not understand energy fight and read the whole situation very well. Flying this high speed will only consume your fuel very fast and u still can get shot down with no kills.
I wish they would really model the F-15C and the Superhornet. I hear the F-15E is coming out but it's not optimized for air to air. Those are the real non-stealthy 4th generation US king of BVR. I'm wondering which one is the most advanced: The SH with the lower RCS or the F-15 with the better high and fast performance? Both should be better than the F-16 in the real world. Am I right?
Yes please activate the kill confirm mini screen on the server if it is possible. Its specially usefull if you are streaming or recording some video to keep your audience aware about what is happening
It’s active on the server mate you have to turn it on as well if u go on the server it’s in ur binds
@@GrowlingSidewinder Tnx! I will check it
Did you make it back to base with the fuel at the end?
Thanks for this video, great BVR demo! Ugh, I want data-link in the Eagle so badly :)
How do you enable battle damage assessment? And how long can you typically stay in the air sitting in burner basically the whole time? It seems to me that it is not a suitable tactic to adopt in CAP, or at least needs to be modified so that you can transition into this mode of flight. Would be nice to know at what range / point in target acquisition / flight you should make a transition to full burner and climbing etc.
Usually I end up sitting around 20-25k feet going fairly slow, until I have a target, at which point I will do the 5-7 nose up full burner climb to gain as much speed and altitude on my target as possible.
How about a few vids on dogfight tips and tricks. With similar aircraft etc.. and/or dog fighting for newbies/novices
Great vids!
How long can you stay airborne with full afterburner and two tanks. I also noticed you never put your the little lead ring into your amraam ring, as this should if possible be in the center, is there no point in this, just trying to learn the viper.
7-8mins at high altitude will full burner as for the ring that’s a good idea to maximize the missiles range I use it at long distances so the missile doesn’t have to turn as hard and lose energy when ur close tho it doesn’t matter really the missile has more than enough energy to make the turn and still hit the target.
@@GrowlingSidewinder ok thanks, your videoes are very helpfull. and entertaining
This was insanely entertaining and informative, top notch content as always
Fantastic fighter. My favorite on a video game I play.
2:50 what is that aural warning? I can not understand what it's saying and I can't find it anywhere.
I have been playing this a heap and love it as a bvr fighter I'm just disappointed it can only carry only 4 aim120 but I love the SA it this you just know where everything is
The F-16 can carry 6 AMRAAM, not 4. Ditch the heaters, they're worthless for most situations, especially if you use HMCS in DOGFIGHT mode to lock up targets that are off-bore. They are actually *better* in that situation, as they lock easier and have a lot more range/energy when let off the rails.
We saw how a Mirage can dominate air with another delta wing aircarft's pilot. I wonder how a fast machine like F-16 fight in a dogfight flew by a real pilot. There is a man called C. W. Lemoine who is a former F-16 pilot. If you reach him out it 'd be perfect to see both radius-fighter and rate-fighter pilots' way to dogfight.
C.W lemoine has already stated he wont fight how he was taught due to legal reasons and national defense/security reasons.
Seems like nothing changed since WW2. Altitude and speed is king. When i started getting familiar with modern air combat, the whole advent of radar, doppler effect and terrain masking gave the impression that the nature of air combat has changed. But watching this video just proves otherwise. Certainly terrain masking has its use but it would appear that in a dogfight you still prefer altitude and speed due to the energy advantage. Every thing you do uses energy, so having more starting energy is always good.
Whats the difference between Datalink in F16 vs F18 ?
I like the battle damage assessment. Tells what type aircraft it is.
The F16 better than the F14 with the Phoenix?
GR, why didnt you use tws? other than getting notched and it losing lock at farther ranges, the lack of rwr warning makes it really useful in my opinion
Thank you so much for this. I am always getting shot down and wondering what I am doing wrong. I was afraid of AB and tried to sip fuel while I pussy footed around at 450-500kts. I'm excited to get home and try out this new tactic.
Given the state of Redfor High Def. a/c, how many Mig-21s would we need to throw at you?
I get the same amount of situational awareness out of the f-18, but the 16 is incredibly fast. Can’t beat its speed.
I thought I was in a flying school... Keep up the good work
So what do you think about the flight model / engine performance of the Viper? Must take forever to get up to m1.4 at angels 37.. how crazy will she be when she's getting true to the numbers we got from the real thing?
So it’s my impression that the real thing performs a little better than we see here I think in real life it’s a breeze for the f-16 to get to Mach 1.4 at 37k feet
@@GrowlingSidewinder Can you please do an update of this, and also the "Best Fighter in DCS" Video where you said the Viper wins, corrected for the "correct-as-is" DCS FCR range of 40nm? I feel that severely hinders its BVR performance.
this game looks dope, love games with huge learning curves, they are the most satisfying to play
Could you show what would happens if you went up against a Rockwell B-1B Lancer? For example, you are defending and the B-1B attacking a target? Would you be able to find and kill it?
The BDA is a very nice thing, isn't it ? I love it to see the name of the pilot that i have shooted down. It remembers me allways that i shooted down a player and not a AI
All the best bro!
I habe a question. How made you your mfcd's colored? In the other videos on youtube they are only grey
Can you actually maintain supercruise in F-16?
I mean, when you pass the sound barrier with afterburner, reach Mach 1,5 and than you turn it off.