1) New company on the block takes niche industry by hype & storm. 2) New company becomes well-established company. 3) Established company implements "innocuous" 'security' feature. 4) Repeat #3 until said company becomes the next Stratysis. If they keep up the direction they appear to be headed, I hope they fall flat on their Corp face.
What's even worse is that they don't even have the option not to do it because they already spent the money on the hardware required to support cloud services so this pretty much has to work or they lose their investment. See also "The metaverse."
This absolutely reeks of them setting up the infrastructure for a subscription service model to lock functionality. Bmw recently tried to implement a monthly subscription for heated seats. And they got reamed for it. But they'll eventually try again. Imagine: do you want chamber heating? Bambu precision environment, That'll be $9.99/mo Unlock the 150mm2 print speed limit? Bambu hyper drive, just $9.99/mo Unlock maximum nozzle temp? You guessed it, Bambu hot rod, $9.99/mo
@@designbydave To add to the weirdness MQTT is a pretty basic communication protocol. It's pretty popular with IoT devices and home server software like HomeAssistant. MQTT has a security layer that can be implemented, but isn't necessarily required. Which means bambu is either subtly accusing panda of hacking their security, OR (much more likely) bambu left the MQTT broadcasts completely unsecure. So they're either admitting to being hacked or admitting to being sloppy and lazy. And we're supposed to trust them with the security of our printers?
Has nothing to do with subscription. The bambulab environment has been hacked and they STOLE yes STOLE the security keys. I want more restictions. Use Bambu studio and not orcaslicer, again a DIY software i hate
Its always "security" if it was real security it would be a a password and a "are you sure you trust this program" thing not the cloud crap. And as you said the printer is on your local network, the printer is pretty secure unless you intentionally stick its butt end out into the Internet. The less crap you have sticking its butt into the Internet the better. If i want some crazy monitoring setup i can run my own server and the crap bamboo is pulling is another reason i built my own printer.
It's really unfortunate. For a long time I didn't want to get into 3D printing because I read all the reviews that it took more effort and time to tinkering than to actually print something. I love tinkering but after work, house duties, chores, astronomy, telescope making, I really don't feel like getting into debugging a 3d printer atm. But after reading many reviews that Bambu machines "just work", I pulled the trigger in September on a P1S combo and have been printing non-stop since. After this news, I have been looking around and the only other brand that comes close to "just work" out of the box and day-to-day are Voron kits or Prusa CoreXY but they are more expensive for sure
I recently bought a QIDI PLUS4 after hearing great reviews. Haven't had the chance to unbox it yet due to other commitments, but I'm looking forward to experiencing the quality that others have praised.
I mean in my opinion it's like trying to be a car guy without working on your car lol. These things will break and now the controllers are being screwed by the manufacturer. The only way to guarantee a machine won't be e-waste is to learn how to install 3rd party controllers and tinker. What will you do when the controller breaks and they don't make replacements for the particular model anymore? And how is a voron kit ready out of the box if it is a kit you have to put together? Lol
@ But not everyone wants to be "car guy" in this analogy :) Some just want to have a car as a mean to get from point A to point B. They may know "it's time for an oil change" or "brake fluid", but they don't do that themselves. And some cars break down more than others too. I brought up the Voron kit because I read that some kits if I just follow their instruction I can have a reliable working printer after X hours. The key here is reliability
They also quietly changed their TOS. Initially it said that they "...may block print jobs before the update is installed". Initial statement didn't contain any information that you will be able to use printer on older versions of firmware eighter. It was added later... quietly ofc. Now they are playing the victim stating that they are falsely accused for it...
A lot of this is technically true with an hidden asterisk after everything. For example, "We won't brick your system* (* For firmware version 1.04.000)"
@4mb127 Yet, logging onto Bambu today, I was forced to accept their Terms which still says that they may prevent prints if you fail to update the firmware.
"Timed kill switch" is tied to the fact that they have a number of certificates for connecting to things, and it's the same thing as website certificates, so they have a fixed life span. The current version of Bambu Connect software has one that expires in December this year, every printer apparently has a unique certificate that lasts about 10 years. Now, they could update/renew them, and things will continue to function. They could also opt to not check expiration dates and continue to let things work. But we did not find evidence of ignoring dates in Bambu Connect to avoid expired certs, nor have we seen any device renewals yet (still got another 5 years before there is pressure to get it done). The quest is if Bambu will be a good actor or a bad one in the end.
Certificate expiration is a really normal thing, even ones which I don't have to get notarized by a CA have expiration dates. If Bambu isn't releasing new versions of Bambu Connect, the cloud service is probably no longer supporting those printers, so you wouldn't have cloud printing regardless. On LAN what matters is whether the printer firmware checks certificate expiration, and whether you can set the printer's clock. Fortunately after the backlash they added developer mode for LAN only, which should work indefinitely. In the US there's a current exemption to the DMCA for > (15) Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a lawfully acquired device that is primarily designed for use by consumers, when circumvention is a necessary step to allow the diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of such a device, and is not accomplished for the purpose of gaining access to other copyrighted works. For purposes of this paragraph (b)(15): > (i) The “maintenance” of a device is the servicing of the device in order to make it work in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that device; and > (ii) The “repair” of a device is the restoring of the device to the state of working in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that device. For video game consoles[...] so it probably (IANAL) wouldn't be a crime in the US to modify the printer's firmware if it stops working.
@@reddragonflyxx657 I did say that Bambu could renew them, and it's very much the norm for certs as a whole to be. The question is if they will renew them, and what all is tied to the certs functioning. I'm told that the device cert is for the camera, though so no big loss as it appears now, but still annoying and does not stop them from gating more functionality behind that in the future. Any intent, or neglect which allows it, to have these CNC machines lose functionality after some window is problematic, we have CNCs that are multiple decades old still in production at my job, though we are talking about multiple million dollar machines there, where a $50k certified computer replacement/retrofit from the OEM is still worth it, even if it's like a decade of PC hardware and sub $1k of real BOM cost. These machines are tools and should function as such, working for you and not against you.
@OldCurmudgeon3DP No kidding. Still doesn't really apply unless you also believe that other saying is in it's entirety, "the customer is always right."
The best security update would be to cut the tether to the cloud. Why should I need to log in to the net to use my printer? Does anyone know of a good alternative to the P1S?
I got a K1 from Creality a while ago and it is my "happy middle" - maybe not as fancy as bambulab, but a really great quality machine that can do thousands of hours without failing.
I have heard new claims that this firmware is just a "Beta" and optional. I want someone to ask *what the rollback method is* if users don't like it? The security excuse is utter bullshit. Companies do not implement security unless mandated or unless it makes them money.
I don't think that printer is shipping yet, at least I haven't seen any review videos on RUclips, so maybe hold of a bit and see. Prusa has a reputation for making excellent quality printers but the launch of their XL wasn't all that smooth.
I got to disagree with this, I get where you're coming from but I don't think they have proven to be like that or are what you claim them to be. Yes there is a level of trust here, but in a world where we routinely upload our entire life worth of data to companies like Googles cloud storage I don't think our printer data is the worst thing to leak. Its impossible to effectively go though all the files that are uploaded to these even if they did monitor them. The amount would be insane and most of them useless. Worst of all it will take to long to figure out which it is as well. While I agree you shouldn't trust bambu fully, you shouldn't trust any company fully. I was sceptical of bambu but particularly after I got the AMS I cant say that my Prusa MK3s comes even close anymore. Also I disagree entirely with that a network for the printer isn't necessary. Yes I get that is something that could be set up yourself. But simply said, I love tinkering with stuff, but that goes beyond even me. I appreciate a lot that I can make my designs and just without any sort of intermediate device, upload it to the printer and print it out from pretty much anywhere
A bit of criticism: you begin talking about the use or non-use of the app to set up a Bambu printer. Before that, you talked like you knew exactly the situation and underlying reasons Bambu was doing these security updates. So, which is it? Do you know what Bambu is actually doing if you aren't even sure how things currently work with their printers such as the example you, yourself volunteer but don't know the current sulituation of.
You all realize that the prints you send to your printer have to go through their servers to get to your printer. Authentification is normal for this sonyou dont get hacked. This mass hysteria about Bambu is stupid. I dont even own one. Maybe I can find a cheap one from one of younpeople freaking out over nothing
Good luck enforcing copyright laws against some random chinese company that is selling your prints on amazon because bambu sold them infinite print files, using the community to literally invent new products enmass to sell. This is why I dont even upload what I model, and anything i dont want bambu to know about I print on my sd card.
Just bought my first 3D printer since the Ultimaker 2. Bambu Lab was on the shortlist. Super happy now that I went with the Creality K1 Max instead, otherwise I would have the hustle to return the thing.
what is the recommended course of action for someone who'd already ordered one, and this all came down AFTER the printer already shipped [and its going to cost $70 just to send it back and get your money back]? This was going to be my first printer... I had projects I wanted to get started on, and this is going to seriously hamper that if I have to start over [and eat the cost of the accessories I bought with it that already showed up].
Well, if it were me, I would absolutely be returning it, even if it meant eating the return shipping cost. Maybe you can resell it locally and eat less of the cost that way. But then of course you have to deal with the hassle of selling it. Sorry you are in this situation.
Send it back, wait for a third party open source solution, buy a third party controller that can run klipper and retrofit it replacing the stock controller. These are your options.
About that "update" on their blog post about not bricking printers. From Bambu's current TOS below. MQTT is a protocol used for sending sensor data and receiving it at a central location. Home Assistant uses MQTT for the Bambu Labs integration. While you can encrypt MQTT, Bambu doesn't so everything is sent and readable by the user. ------ 7.4 Your Bambu Lab product will automatically search for and download new update packages to provide you with timely update services. These updates are designed to resolve cyber security loopholes and prevent new threats, and it is important to accept and install security related system updates in a timely manner. Due to the importance of these updates, your product may block new print job before the updates is installed, and will immediately provide update notifications to help you understand the related information
I too am surprised at Bembu's turn and have always had reservations regarding Bambu. Creality has been the leader in this forever and have always given it's users root access to their firmware. I do hate their software and cloud service but there Orca and Fluid for our Klipper printer control and slicing.
You know what else is kind of shady and borderline untrustworthy? All the really big 3d printing content creators who have been completely silent on this topic.
I think this is due to the fact that it is because of governmental regulations or pressures in regards to “ghost guns”, because of what happened recently. Bambu Labs is probably caving in to the ATF pressure of “ghost guns” , in my opinion.
Honestly. Ive been looking for a 3d printer and was ready to spend the little extra on a bambu. But NOT NOW not ever. As always its your money your choice. What will trump think about data having togo to china? They literally banned huawai and are trying to ban dji Bambu couldbe next
Maybe give users the option to use a pin? Or use NFC to unlock the printer? Like an NFC receiver in the printer and tap it with your phone or a key-fob to authorize a print. This is suggestions if Bambu is actually concern about security. When someone decides your security, you're no longer secure. Security is the responsibility of the user. Bambu is increasing security for itself not their customers.
In the original Ender 3 era the advice was not download gcode from unknown sites because can have code to damage or burn the hotend. If I remember right when the 3D Printed start to have wifi and lan someone find a way to control a specific brand of 3D Printers so they can heat the hotend and bed making a disaster. he decide to communicate the bug and not make a mess.
I was literally getting ready to purchase a Bambu P1P when I saw Luis Rossman's video about this. I was skeptical about the annoying RFID print media ... but this is a deal breaker. I will definitely go with the PRUSA. I'm not going to waste money on a shiny brick.
I am a complete beginner and have already ordered the P1S before this fiasco. If not Bambu Lab, then what should I buy?! I was interested in Anycubic Kobra S1 Combo too, but decided against it for ease of use. Bambu Lab is still the easiest to use, right?
Hello. Thank you for the warning. I’m about to buy my first 3d printer to build your 12.5 dobsonian. Which company/model do you recommend? I'm thinking of Neptune 4 Pro.
I think you are going to want something with a larger build area and an enclosure. This may be a better discussion to be had on discord, so join us there if you'd like! - discord.gg/QdPa9ed6Jq
For remote monitoring... Many consumer routers have VPN built in and there are apps (I know what you said about apps) for Android at least for those VPNs.
What does authorisation even mean? what would the criteria be? I have total security in my garden room where my printers sit as there is no internet unless via LAN using a VPN.
I don't like the author, but the "these things are false" section had the same energy as Umbridge's "you have been told a certain historical wizard has returned, these are lies." speech.
I agree the changes are bad but i love my bambu printers. They are offline and i use an SD card. I will continue to use them until i cant anymore then i will buy something else
I do agree with you.... But they start slow as a consumer device that has industrial potential...... It's not about the small consumer, they want to go onto the industrial/R&D design, where you can't buy one that isn't safe to the core of it :))..... Had to buy an X1E for work, would have bought a cheaper one.....might as well be able in the future :P......Not that you can't LAN anything, but the management and investment branch is a no go if it's not "certified".... :)) Best thing you said ......."concesions"....If it fits the bill, you buy it, if not, you can buy another anytime.... Wouldn't buy a product that is "cloud-only" ever.... It's not ethical....
look I agree with everyone that the changes are bad and we should be giving them push back on it but at the same time, It doesn't actually effect most people people are reacting as if their machines got bricked or that you shouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole I've always thought they were the apple of the market at the end of the day, me personally, I don't really care
I have had issues with my creality printers but there Customer Service was next level the first printer they gave me full refund the second I chose to get the parts it needed and they sent them out and printer has not stoped since so I would defently recomend them aperently there k2 is grate but have not had a chance to use one
re 5 minute mark. Unless I missed something I did need to install an app during set up, dug out the old tablet for it as didn't want it on phone (but do that with all of these). Is possible that I missed some work around but I was looking. Printer is LAN only currently. If dev mode can be what they say that can satisfy my needs if not my concerns. Really do like the printer, and it'd born enough interest to put in the effort with something that will require more of a time investment.
Not knocking your uber point. Just saying that security on endpoints like 3d printers is as important as 2d (injet) printers. Nobody hacks 2d printers to print a page but they do to infiltrate the local network...
The amount of times some random dudes printer, was hacked by some other random dude. Can be counted on 1 finger. Gaslight harder and appeal to first order thinkers harder bambu.
This feels like CCP digging their claws into Bambu Lab. Does not really effect me so far. I did buy some of my friends X1C printers with AMS for 1/4 the original price since they felt like they wanted out of them. Keep your printers, don't sell them. Still the best on the market right now. Enough of the community will get mad about this and pissed of Geeks come up with fun work arounds and fixes to dumb stuff.
I agree , governments love striping our rights under the guise of security, but I dont see it here honestly, just a company locking down their stuff because then hackers could easily mess up your prints/ printers and they would look even worse amatuerish company for not haveing secure systems. You dont complain about Windows which is worse, i dont even own my computer anymore. So in that sense im no defending Bambu, i prefer and open eco system, but i really think they're just trying to be secure which is not my philosophy anyway but understandable. If i were to put a product online to sell that had network acceess this is something id have to think about to. I wouldtn do anything because my product wouldnt attract hackersbut someones like Bambu might so I totaly understand and Im not on your guys side who loook like your witch hunting, where were you guys when our rights were really being stripped away by authorirties? In the printer world we have options even if they did have nefariouse plans, so im not worried anyawy. So please, someone invent us an open machine thats as good as Bambu? please!
Is any of the clams here no hypothetical? So they do not block 3rd party filaments and there is no evidence that the app is malicious and you don't have to use it .... and yet you get angry at some perceived future threat? There are many good arguments against buying a specific printer but not paranoia. And the open source community didn't develop all that much. They did popularize some items and technology.
Not letting people use other filament is like not letting someone use any type of paper within spec in your printer. Having to buy all your wood for your saw in one place? “OHHHH… that’s not Sawstop authorized wood… you can’t put that through this saw.” Filament is a building/printing material. Not some unique thing nobody else can produce.
If bambu were to sell a printer. For example the new one thats comming. And then offer extra functionality not available already but it was on a subscription then would that be accepted? This back tracking though isjust crap
For anyone saying "this is not a big deal" or "it doesn't affect me", here's a quote: ""First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me."
Bambu didn't create a problem for you. You did. Bambu is openly proprietary and never advertised a capacity to interface with slicers other than their own. Your insistence on using other systems is your problem. If you don't like that, if course, don't buy, but don't whine about your failure to understand the ecosystem. Additionally, if you truly believe Bambu should be run in a specific way, buy them, apply for employment there, or start your own 3d printer hardware company and see how that goes. As for me, Bambu gives me the most consistent high quality prints, and I'm sticking with it. All the best to you.
This... only less harsh. Literally, all of the nefarious things are speculation and fear mongering at this point. The average Bambu owner uses Bsmbu slicer and the native screen they bought on the printer. Like 80% over owners, this update has zero effect on. The future is the future, and nobody actually knows where they are going. Because of the "Bambu" effect, those that are concerned can actually get great printers now because every other company has been playing catch-up ball. Realistically anyone using consumer level printers in small print farms will change them out every few years anyway for new tech. So large print farms, heavy duty tinkerers and grippers are the only ones with room to complain here. Bambu was NEVER open-ended. They never supported the use of third party stuff - at best, they tolerated it with no guarantees. They have no obligation to support 3rd party hardware or software. Having said that, the consumer has no obligation to buy from them either. I have 10 of them, this update will not affect me at all because I don't need third-party stuff to print what I need to print. Honestly, they have had some issues, they are not perfect, and they are a new company and yeah, they are in China with all that brings. None of that was/is a secret. If they were to lockdown functionality or restrict filament use or go to a subscription model, I will be the first to start swapping out my printers but NONE of that has happened. All this fear and backlash is for largely non-existent changes. So, question why they are doing things, voice your displeasure with the update, and vote with your wallet, but be fair about it. I intend to wear my printers out until they actually do something negative or something better comes along.
@@ronbarrett8807 thanks for that. I've just heard so much whining I'm sick of it haha... Like enough! I'm almost ready to pay a subscription to stop these types of responses haha... Again, thanks for the response. I appreciate it.
Playing devil's advocate, what are the chances that an undisclosed zero day is capable of allowing a remote attacker to do things like burn up the hot end or otherwise ramp voltage beyond safeguards? My tinfoil hat is waiting for news of a data breach. This update seems unusual and reactionary to me. They know their target market well enough to corner it, and you would think they would know this update would cause an uproar? I do love my X1C, being a Makergear M2 early adopter... Will be holding on any firmware updates for now.
It's not an undisclosed zero day, it was a well known and established exploit that bambu was warned about for ages and never acted on until the one who found it intentionally hacked thousands of machines as a warning message.
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. Fact is they're easily the best printers, despite all this. Not buying them is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
why? like the whole f..... internet has gone insane. after 1 statement. you will still be able to use orca slicer. you will still be able to use lan mode. you will not be forced to use cloud mode. in 24 hours hundreds of wannabe influencers collecting likes on a subject that is popular. monetization without understanding of situation. 500 views in 7 hours. just let it go....
complete missleading here. this article is a guess .. nothing is planned and the firmware is beta. not released yet. you can use LAN mode or Developer Mode with no Restrictions and I saw no limitations in functionality (I tested the firmware already) OrcaSlicer was working as well. and u dont need the cloud you need it if you want use your handy otherwise u dont need it. greetings from germany.
I personally don’t care about the Bambu news, and it’s really only the old schooled printing hobbyist that do care. It’s the tinkerers that are all up in arms; anyone else who doesn’t think about 3d printing until then need to print something won’t care as long as they can continue to only think of 3d printing as long as it takes for them to fire off their next print.
You are mostly correct but they should care as these are the type of things that manufacturers like to slip in, unnoticed until one day you realize your printer doesn't work without a subscription, or it plays you ads or something. This is why its important to talk about this publicly and spread the news.
Who cares what you think, plenty of users are perfectly happy. Bambu have provided an excellent printer and the ability to access in multiple ways for those willing to understand and learn
So, I buy a Honda which is a closed source product. I put a Nissan engine and infotainment system in my Honda. It failed and Honda will not honor their warranty, how dare Honda for not standing behind their product.
i will still use the bambulab printers in the cloud, there are no good printers that gives the quality for such a price. It is all nitpicken. No problem if you do not want bambulab printers sell them, good cheap 2nd hand printers for the masses that have no problems
Who is "you guys"? Any reviewer with any shred of integrity would have praised the Bambu Lab printers for their performance, while also cautioning against the closed ecosystem nature of their software and business practices, which is exactly what the good one's did.
@@designbydave it’s not what happening..all ‘you guys’ are reviewers that tell in videos for over two years now -how good Bambulab printer are and praised their performance and HIGHLY recommended them. Now you are all up in arms on not buying them. You sucks.
"3D printer should be local by default"
plain and simple
I stole that line from Level 2 Jeff. I should have given credit in my video. My bad - discord.gg/QdPa9ed6Jq
@@designbydave Love the open source spirit.. :D
@@dekurvajo really? Since when?
@@VitalieCartera since 3D models are intellectual properties
@@dekurvajo i hate the opensource DIY crap
1) New company on the block takes niche industry by hype & storm.
2) New company becomes well-established company.
3) Established company implements "innocuous" 'security' feature.
4) Repeat #3 until said company becomes the next Stratysis.
If they keep up the direction they appear to be headed, I hope they fall flat on their Corp face.
Yep that pretty much says it.
What's even worse is that they don't even have the option not to do it because they already spent the money on the hardware required to support cloud services so this pretty much has to work or they lose their investment. See also "The metaverse."
This absolutely reeks of them setting up the infrastructure for a subscription service model to lock functionality.
Bmw recently tried to implement a monthly subscription for heated seats. And they got reamed for it. But they'll eventually try again.
Imagine:
do you want chamber heating? Bambu precision environment, That'll be $9.99/mo
Unlock the 150mm2 print speed limit? Bambu hyper drive, just $9.99/mo
Unlock maximum nozzle temp? You guessed it, Bambu hot rod, $9.99/mo
You are very correct. They act like we haven't seen this kind of crap before so many times, like the BMW thing you mentioned.
@@designbydave To add to the weirdness MQTT is a pretty basic communication protocol. It's pretty popular with IoT devices and home server software like HomeAssistant. MQTT has a security layer that can be implemented, but isn't necessarily required. Which means bambu is either subtly accusing panda of hacking their security, OR (much more likely) bambu left the MQTT broadcasts completely unsecure. So they're either admitting to being hacked or admitting to being sloppy and lazy. And we're supposed to trust them with the security of our printers?
Has nothing to do with subscription. The bambulab environment has been hacked and they STOLE yes STOLE the security keys. I want more restictions. Use Bambu studio and not orcaslicer, again a DIY software i hate
You guys are on something. You're seeing things that are not there.
Its always "security" if it was real security it would be a a password and a "are you sure you trust this program" thing not the cloud crap.
And as you said the printer is on your local network, the printer is pretty secure unless you intentionally stick its butt end out into the Internet.
The less crap you have sticking its butt into the Internet the better.
If i want some crazy monitoring setup i can run my own server and the crap bamboo is pulling is another reason i built my own printer.
Even at that it’s a 3d printer oh no they’ll find out I printed the boat benchmark 5 times.
It's really unfortunate. For a long time I didn't want to get into 3D printing because I read all the reviews that it took more effort and time to tinkering than to actually print something. I love tinkering but after work, house duties, chores, astronomy, telescope making, I really don't feel like getting into debugging a 3d printer atm. But after reading many reviews that Bambu machines "just work", I pulled the trigger in September on a P1S combo and have been printing non-stop since.
After this news, I have been looking around and the only other brand that comes close to "just work" out of the box and day-to-day are Voron kits or Prusa CoreXY but they are more expensive for sure
Yep, I feel you. Credit where it is due, the product is great, but it's not worth it.
I recently bought a QIDI PLUS4 after hearing great reviews. Haven't had the chance to unbox it yet due to other commitments, but I'm looking forward to experiencing the quality that others have praised.
I mean in my opinion it's like trying to be a car guy without working on your car lol. These things will break and now the controllers are being screwed by the manufacturer. The only way to guarantee a machine won't be e-waste is to learn how to install 3rd party controllers and tinker. What will you do when the controller breaks and they don't make replacements for the particular model anymore?
And how is a voron kit ready out of the box if it is a kit you have to put together? Lol
@ But not everyone wants to be "car guy" in this analogy :) Some just want to have a car as a mean to get from point A to point B. They may know "it's time for an oil change" or "brake fluid", but they don't do that themselves. And some cars break down more than others too.
I brought up the Voron kit because I read that some kits if I just follow their instruction I can have a reliable working printer after X hours.
The key here is reliability
They also quietly changed their TOS. Initially it said that they "...may block print jobs before the update is installed".
Initial statement didn't contain any information that you will be able to use printer on older versions of firmware eighter. It was added later... quietly ofc.
Now they are playing the victim stating that they are falsely accused for it...
A lot of this is technically true with an hidden asterisk after everything. For example, "We won't brick your system* (* For firmware version 1.04.000)"
@4mb127 Yet, logging onto Bambu today, I was forced to accept their Terms which still says that they may prevent prints if you fail to update the firmware.
As soon as they lock it down, someone will produce open firmware. It was done with HP and Keurig, so it will be with Bambu Lab if they go this route.
People are already doing it.
"Timed kill switch" is tied to the fact that they have a number of certificates for connecting to things, and it's the same thing as website certificates, so they have a fixed life span. The current version of Bambu Connect software has one that expires in December this year, every printer apparently has a unique certificate that lasts about 10 years. Now, they could update/renew them, and things will continue to function. They could also opt to not check expiration dates and continue to let things work. But we did not find evidence of ignoring dates in Bambu Connect to avoid expired certs, nor have we seen any device renewals yet (still got another 5 years before there is pressure to get it done). The quest is if Bambu will be a good actor or a bad one in the end.
Certificate expiration is a really normal thing, even ones which I don't have to get notarized by a CA have expiration dates. If Bambu isn't releasing new versions of Bambu Connect, the cloud service is probably no longer supporting those printers, so you wouldn't have cloud printing regardless. On LAN what matters is whether the printer firmware checks certificate expiration, and whether you can set the printer's clock. Fortunately after the backlash they added developer mode for LAN only, which should work indefinitely.
In the US there's a current exemption to the DMCA for
> (15) Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a lawfully acquired device that is primarily designed for use by consumers, when circumvention is a necessary step to allow the diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of such a device, and is not accomplished for the purpose of gaining access to other copyrighted works. For purposes of this paragraph (b)(15):
> (i) The “maintenance” of a device is the servicing of the device in order to make it work in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that device; and
> (ii) The “repair” of a device is the restoring of the device to the state of working in accordance with its original specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized for that device. For video game consoles[...]
so it probably (IANAL) wouldn't be a crime in the US to modify the printer's firmware if it stops working.
@@reddragonflyxx657 I did say that Bambu could renew them, and it's very much the norm for certs as a whole to be. The question is if they will renew them, and what all is tied to the certs functioning. I'm told that the device cert is for the camera, though so no big loss as it appears now, but still annoying and does not stop them from gating more functionality behind that in the future. Any intent, or neglect which allows it, to have these CNC machines lose functionality after some window is problematic, we have CNCs that are multiple decades old still in production at my job, though we are talking about multiple million dollar machines there, where a $50k certified computer replacement/retrofit from the OEM is still worth it, even if it's like a decade of PC hardware and sub $1k of real BOM cost. These machines are tools and should function as such, working for you and not against you.
The old saying... If you're not paying for the product, *you are* the product.
Worse then that in this case, you are both paying for and are the product.
I didn’t realize Bambu printers were free.
Um... I paid for my printer?
Obviously I was referring to the app segment of the video. Not the printer.
@OldCurmudgeon3DP No kidding. Still doesn't really apply unless you also believe that other saying is in it's entirety, "the customer is always right."
The best security update would be to cut the tether to the cloud.
Why should I need to log in to the net to use my printer?
Does anyone know of a good alternative to the P1S?
Exactly.
I went over my thoughts on alternatives at the end of the video.
@@designbydave You did. I was hoping for an enclosed printer with an AMS. I was considering the Anycubic but less reliability and way more poop.
@@ausfoodgarden Creality has a printer like that.
I got a K1 from Creality a while ago and it is my "happy middle" - maybe not as fancy as bambulab, but a really great quality machine that can do thousands of hours without failing.
i think the best alternative will be a fully castrared BL hardware. With a BTT mainboard for example.
Locking the printer into their ecosystem enables them to do everything they are denying now.
overreacted ignorance is recommending. Sheep's mindset.
I have heard new claims that this firmware is just a "Beta" and optional. I want someone to ask *what the rollback method is* if users don't like it?
The security excuse is utter bullshit. Companies do not implement security unless mandated or unless it makes them money.
I'm one and done. This was pre-planned and clearly bait and switch. Hope there is a class action lawsuit being worked on.
was hoping to start with the P1 but I guess I'll go with Prusa C1
I don't think that printer is shipping yet, at least I haven't seen any review videos on RUclips, so maybe hold of a bit and see. Prusa has a reputation for making excellent quality printers but the launch of their XL wasn't all that smooth.
What is Bambu Labs' relationship with DJI and the ccp?
Bambu was founded by former employees of DJI. Their hardware, software and business practices have many similarities.
Just by the mere fact that they are based in china means they are required by Chinese law to make available data at any time, to any extent.
Consumers will be held hostages in case of even worse international relations.
As if I really want (another) proprietary, closed-source system attached to my LAN. Klipper FTW.
I got to disagree with this, I get where you're coming from but I don't think they have proven to be like that or are what you claim them to be.
Yes there is a level of trust here, but in a world where we routinely upload our entire life worth of data to companies like Googles cloud storage I don't think our printer data is the worst thing to leak. Its impossible to effectively go though all the files that are uploaded to these even if they did monitor them. The amount would be insane and most of them useless. Worst of all it will take to long to figure out which it is as well.
While I agree you shouldn't trust bambu fully, you shouldn't trust any company fully. I was sceptical of bambu but particularly after I got the AMS I cant say that my Prusa MK3s comes even close anymore. Also I disagree entirely with that a network for the printer isn't necessary. Yes I get that is something that could be set up yourself. But simply said, I love tinkering with stuff, but that goes beyond even me. I appreciate a lot that I can make my designs and just without any sort of intermediate device, upload it to the printer and print it out from pretty much anywhere
See Louis Rossmann's latest video - ruclips.net/video/W6MybDJfmmY/видео.htmlsi=Upuj6HmdWWufRkIG
This step by Bambu labs isn't a "security" fix, it's a "control" fix.
Yep
A bit of criticism: you begin talking about the use or non-use of the app to set up a Bambu printer. Before that, you talked like you knew exactly the situation and underlying reasons Bambu was doing these security updates. So, which is it? Do you know what Bambu is actually doing if you aren't even sure how things currently work with their printers such as the example you, yourself volunteer but don't know the current sulituation of.
The 2d Printer industry pretty much RUINED photo printers due to their overpriced inks etc.
MQTT... Mosquito... Home Assistant, etc. The fact that they even had that function is interesting.
To be fair, being able to monitor the printer from the Home Assistant app on your phone, especially if it had the camera already integrated.
Attract customers. Counting on customers not willing to bin their investment, after they introduce their changes.
You all realize that the prints you send to your printer have to go through their servers to get to your printer. Authentification is normal for this sonyou dont get hacked. This mass hysteria about Bambu is stupid. I dont even own one. Maybe I can find a cheap one from one of younpeople freaking out over nothing
Good luck enforcing copyright laws against some random chinese company that is selling your prints on amazon because bambu sold them infinite print files, using the community to literally invent new products enmass to sell. This is why I dont even upload what I model, and anything i dont want bambu to know about I print on my sd card.
Just bought my first 3D printer since the Ultimaker 2. Bambu Lab was on the shortlist.
Super happy now that I went with the Creality K1 Max instead, otherwise I would have the hustle to return the thing.
The K1 series is great!
Yeah. I took down all my shared designs on MakerWorld, and updated my Bio to reflect Im awaiting actions that support their claims of being good guys.
what is the recommended course of action for someone who'd already ordered one, and this all came down AFTER the printer already shipped [and its going to cost $70 just to send it back and get your money back]? This was going to be my first printer... I had projects I wanted to get started on, and this is going to seriously hamper that if I have to start over [and eat the cost of the accessories I bought with it that already showed up].
Well, if it were me, I would absolutely be returning it, even if it meant eating the return shipping cost. Maybe you can resell it locally and eat less of the cost that way. But then of course you have to deal with the hassle of selling it. Sorry you are in this situation.
@@designbydave im in the same situation. ive been leaning to sending it back. do you have anyone that competes with the A1
Send it back, wait for a third party open source solution, buy a third party controller that can run klipper and retrofit it replacing the stock controller.
These are your options.
About that "update" on their blog post about not bricking printers. From Bambu's current TOS below. MQTT is a protocol used for sending sensor data and receiving it at a central location. Home Assistant uses MQTT for the Bambu Labs integration. While you can encrypt MQTT, Bambu doesn't so everything is sent and readable by the user.
------
7.4 Your Bambu Lab product will automatically search for and download new update packages to provide you with timely update services. These updates are designed to resolve cyber security loopholes and prevent new threats, and it is important to accept and install security related system updates in a timely manner. Due to the importance of these updates, your product may block new print job before the updates is installed, and will immediately provide update notifications to help you understand the related information
They absolutely lying about this.
I too am surprised at Bembu's turn and have always had reservations regarding Bambu. Creality has been the leader in this forever and have always given it's users root access to their firmware. I do hate their software and cloud service but there Orca and Fluid for our Klipper printer control and slicing.
Bambu Lab have given YT's something to talk about.
You know what else is kind of shady and borderline untrustworthy? All the really big 3d printing content creators who have been completely silent on this topic.
I think this is due to the fact that it is because of governmental regulations or pressures in regards to “ghost guns”, because of what happened recently. Bambu Labs is probably caving in to the ATF pressure of “ghost guns” , in my opinion.
Honestly. Ive been looking for a 3d printer and was ready to spend the little extra on a bambu. But NOT NOW not ever.
As always its your money your choice.
What will trump think about data having togo to china?
They literally banned huawai and are trying to ban dji
Bambu couldbe next
Maybe give users the option to use a pin? Or use NFC to unlock the printer? Like an NFC receiver in the printer and tap it with your phone or a key-fob to authorize a print. This is suggestions if Bambu is actually concern about security. When someone decides your security, you're no longer secure. Security is the responsibility of the user. Bambu is increasing security for itself not their customers.
In the original Ender 3 era the advice was not download gcode from unknown sites because can have code to damage or burn the hotend.
If I remember right when the 3D Printed start to have wifi and lan someone find a way to control a specific brand of 3D Printers so they can heat the hotend and bed making a disaster. he decide to communicate the bug and not make a mess.
I would strongly advise against running downloaded gcode the same today.
This reeks of the way DJI can disable your drone just because you haven’t logged in for a while
Yep. Bambu was founded by former DJI staff.
I was literally getting ready to purchase a Bambu P1P when I saw Luis Rossman's video about this. I was skeptical about the annoying RFID print media ... but this is a deal breaker. I will definitely go with the PRUSA. I'm not going to waste money on a shiny brick.
You made the right choice
still a good ass printer
I am a complete beginner and have already ordered the P1S before this fiasco. If not Bambu Lab, then what should I buy?!
I was interested in Anycubic Kobra S1 Combo too, but decided against it for ease of use. Bambu Lab is still the easiest to use, right?
I would recommend the Creality K1 series. My experience with that printer what very much "out of the box" and "just works"
Hello. Thank you for the warning.
I’m about to buy my first 3d printer to build your 12.5 dobsonian.
Which company/model do you recommend? I'm thinking of Neptune 4 Pro.
I think you are going to want something with a larger build area and an enclosure. This may be a better discussion to be had on discord, so join us there if you'd like! - discord.gg/QdPa9ed6Jq
I'll keep using the ones I have : will not be buying any more unless Bambu stops this nonsense. Also I will be limiting any updates going forward.
BTT just posted a public update, Bambu hasn't been working with them at all (in other words Bambu is lying, again) and Bambu has ghosted them.
For remote monitoring... Many consumer routers have VPN built in and there are apps (I know what you said about apps) for Android at least for those VPNs.
What does authorisation even mean? what would the criteria be? I have total security in my garden room where my printers sit as there is no internet unless via LAN using a VPN.
It means you have to connect to their cloud.
You are fine if you are on LAN, id probably stay away from any updates for a bit though.
I don't like the author, but the "these things are false" section had the same energy as Umbridge's "you have been told a certain historical wizard has returned, these are lies." speech.
Anyone heard of the soon to be released Anycubic Kobra S1? Looks awesome and comes with filament dryer
Looks good and at a great price
I agree the changes are bad but i love my bambu printers. They are offline and i use an SD card. I will continue to use them until i cant anymore then i will buy something else
Yep, I know they work great and people do love them. It's just a shame that they come from a shady company.
@designbydave I agree. It hurts but there is nothing I can do now but keep using them.
I have the a1 and a1 mini and an ender 3 neo, i can say that my bambu lab is easier to start and run.
I'm sure that is the case. I do not knock the product or it's performance.
Bambucels be SEETHING over Voronchads
thats a old update they have just updated it
Ain’t it funny how BL founder also worked at Chinese based DJI? Hmmmm
Very similar business practices
I do agree with you....
But they start slow as a consumer device that has industrial potential......
It's not about the small consumer, they want to go onto the industrial/R&D design, where you can't buy one that isn't safe to the core of it :)).....
Had to buy an X1E for work, would have bought a cheaper one.....might as well be able in the future :P......Not that you can't LAN anything, but the management and investment branch is a no go if it's not "certified".... :))
Best thing you said ......."concesions"....If it fits the bill, you buy it, if not, you can buy another anytime....
Wouldn't buy a product that is "cloud-only" ever.... It's not ethical....
i took mine to lan only and wont upgrade
they want to train their AI on your files.
look I agree with everyone that the changes are bad and we should be giving them push back on it
but at the same time, It doesn't actually effect most people
people are reacting as if their machines got bricked or that you shouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole
I've always thought they were the apple of the market
at the end of the day, me personally, I don't really care
I have had issues with my creality printers but there Customer Service was next level the first printer they gave me full refund the second I chose to get the parts it needed and they sent them out and printer has not stoped since so I would defently recomend them aperently there k2 is grate but have not had a chance to use one
re 5 minute mark. Unless I missed something I did need to install an app during set up, dug out the old tablet for it as didn't want it on phone (but do that with all of these). Is possible that I missed some work around but I was looking. Printer is LAN only currently.
If dev mode can be what they say that can satisfy my needs if not my concerns. Really do like the printer, and it'd born enough interest to put in the effort with something that will require more of a time investment.
Thank you for confirming the app requirement.
i was about to purchase X1C but i guess not. Ill wait for their competitors
This is the right move
Not knocking your uber point. Just saying that security on endpoints like 3d printers is as important as 2d (injet) printers. Nobody hacks 2d printers to print a page but they do to infiltrate the local network...
Fair point. Though honestly nothing of value on my network. It might be more important to businesses though. Maybe opt in/out.
Seams like Tesla😂
absolutely
The amount of times some random dudes printer, was hacked by some other random dude. Can be counted on 1 finger. Gaslight harder and appeal to first order thinkers harder bambu.
I do remember octoprint exposing peoples printers to the web and indeed it was possible.
good for competition
This feels like CCP digging their claws into Bambu Lab. Does not really effect me so far. I did buy some of my friends X1C printers with AMS for 1/4 the original price since they felt like they wanted out of them. Keep your printers, don't sell them. Still the best on the market right now. Enough of the community will get mad about this and pissed of Geeks come up with fun work arounds and fixes to dumb stuff.
I feel the same way. I love mine and will continue to print until I cant anymore
I agree , governments love striping our rights under the guise of security, but I dont see it here honestly, just a company locking down their stuff because then hackers could easily mess up your prints/ printers and they would look even worse amatuerish company for not haveing secure systems. You dont complain about Windows which is worse, i dont even own my computer anymore. So in that sense im no defending Bambu, i prefer and open eco system, but i really think they're just trying to be secure which is not my philosophy anyway but understandable. If i were to put a product online to sell that had network acceess this is something id have to think about to. I wouldtn do anything because my product wouldnt attract hackersbut someones like Bambu might so I totaly understand and Im not on your guys side who loook like your witch hunting, where were you guys when our rights were really being stripped away by authorirties? In the printer world we have options even if they did have nefariouse plans, so im not worried anyawy. So please, someone invent us an open machine thats as good as Bambu? please!
Is any of the clams here no hypothetical?
So they do not block 3rd party filaments and there is no evidence that the app is malicious and you don't have to use it .... and yet you get angry at some perceived future threat?
There are many good arguments against buying a specific printer but not paranoia.
And the open source community didn't develop all that much. They did popularize some items and technology.
*Laughs in Ender 3*
Not letting people use other filament is like not letting someone use any type of paper within spec in your printer.
Having to buy all your wood for your saw in one place? “OHHHH… that’s not Sawstop authorized wood… you can’t put that through this saw.”
Filament is a building/printing material. Not some unique thing nobody else can produce.
If bambu were to sell a printer. For example the new one thats comming. And then offer extra functionality not available already but it was on a subscription then would that be accepted?
This back tracking though isjust crap
A subscription? No that would not be acceptable to me.
For anyone saying "this is not a big deal" or "it doesn't affect me", here's a quote:
""First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me."
Dude seriously, that's just insulting to victims of the holocaust and world wars , we're talking about a 3D printer here.
Bambu didn't create a problem for you. You did. Bambu is openly proprietary and never advertised a capacity to interface with slicers other than their own.
Your insistence on using other systems is your problem.
If you don't like that, if course, don't buy, but don't whine about your failure to understand the ecosystem.
Additionally, if you truly believe Bambu should be run in a specific way, buy them, apply for employment there, or start your own 3d printer hardware company and see how that goes.
As for me, Bambu gives me the most consistent high quality prints, and I'm sticking with it.
All the best to you.
This... only less harsh.
Literally, all of the nefarious things are speculation and fear mongering at this point. The average Bambu owner uses Bsmbu slicer and the native screen they bought on the printer. Like 80% over owners, this update has zero effect on. The future is the future, and nobody actually knows where they are going. Because of the "Bambu" effect, those that are concerned can actually get great printers now because every other company has been playing catch-up ball.
Realistically anyone using consumer level printers in small print farms will change them out every few years anyway for new tech. So large print farms, heavy duty tinkerers and grippers are the only ones with room to complain here.
Bambu was NEVER open-ended. They never supported the use of third party stuff - at best, they tolerated it with no guarantees. They have no obligation to support 3rd party hardware or software. Having said that, the consumer has no obligation to buy from them either. I have 10 of them, this update will not affect me at all because I don't need third-party stuff to print what I need to print.
Honestly, they have had some issues, they are not perfect, and they are a new company and yeah, they are in China with all that brings. None of that was/is a secret. If they were to lockdown functionality or restrict filament use or go to a subscription model, I will be the first to start swapping out my printers but NONE of that has happened. All this fear and backlash is for largely non-existent changes.
So, question why they are doing things, voice your displeasure with the update, and vote with your wallet, but be fair about it. I intend to wear my printers out until they actually do something negative or something better comes along.
@@ronbarrett8807 thanks for that. I've just heard so much whining I'm sick of it haha... Like enough! I'm almost ready to pay a subscription to stop these types of responses haha... Again, thanks for the response. I appreciate it.
Playing devil's advocate, what are the chances that an undisclosed zero day is capable of allowing a remote attacker to do things like burn up the hot end or otherwise ramp voltage beyond safeguards? My tinfoil hat is waiting for news of a data breach. This update seems unusual and reactionary to me. They know their target market well enough to corner it, and you would think they would know this update would cause an uproar? I do love my X1C, being a Makergear M2 early adopter... Will be holding on any firmware updates for now.
I'd say it's possible... with their proprietary, closed source software.
It's not an undisclosed zero day, it was a well known and established exploit that bambu was warned about for ages and never acted on until the one who found it intentionally hacked thousands of machines as a warning message.
@@kylequinn1963That instance was not on a Bambu machine. Do some actual research instead of talking out your...
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. Fact is they're easily the best printers, despite all this. Not buying them is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
lol
why? like the whole f..... internet has gone insane. after 1 statement. you will still be able to use orca slicer. you will still be able to use lan mode. you will not be forced to use cloud mode. in 24 hours hundreds of wannabe influencers collecting likes on a subject that is popular. monetization without understanding of situation. 500 views in 7 hours. just let it go....
try Qidi printers
I would like to!
complete missleading here.
this article is a guess .. nothing is planned and the firmware is beta. not released yet.
you can use LAN mode or Developer Mode with no Restrictions and I saw no limitations in functionality (I tested the firmware already) OrcaSlicer was working as well.
and u dont need the cloud you need it if you want use your handy otherwise u dont need it.
greetings from germany.
I personally don’t care about the Bambu news, and it’s really only the old schooled printing hobbyist that do care. It’s the tinkerers that are all up in arms; anyone else who doesn’t think about 3d printing until then need to print something won’t care as long as they can continue to only think of 3d printing as long as it takes for them to fire off their next print.
You are mostly correct but they should care as these are the type of things that manufacturers like to slip in, unnoticed until one day you realize your printer doesn't work without a subscription, or it plays you ads or something. This is why its important to talk about this publicly and spread the news.
another RUclips channel bashes bambu and is recommending creality at the same time. coincidence?
No, not a coincidence at all and I think I made my points clear in the video.
Who cares what you think, plenty of users are perfectly happy. Bambu have provided an excellent printer and the ability to access in multiple ways for those willing to understand and learn
I mean you took the time to at least click on the thumbnail and comment so....
So, I buy a Honda which is a closed source product. I put a Nissan engine and infotainment system in my Honda. It failed and Honda will not honor their warranty, how dare Honda for not standing behind their product.
This grossly misrepresents the point and the analogy is not at all applicable.
@@designbydave You are grossly misrepresenting what COULD happen. Why don't you read the TOS of YOUR favorite printer and tell us what it says.
i will still use the bambulab printers in the cloud, there are no good printers that gives the quality for such a price. It is all nitpicken. No problem if you do not want bambulab printers sell them, good cheap 2nd hand printers for the masses that have no problems
Prusa is the Apple of the 3D world.
I'd argue that Bambu is the Apple of the 3D Printing world.
@designbydave OK. Fair enough point. Bambu is more locked down than Prusa.
They became too successful, not they are getting greedy.
First they were getting slagged off because people thought they weren't secure enough, now your upset they're trying to fix it?
cool i wish all of you would go and whinge about other printers,
its tiring
dont listen to this channel
its a fake troll place
Blablabla
You guys are pathetic ..after telling everybody that the Bambulab are the best..now you turn around on policies.. turn coat.
Who is "you guys"?
Any reviewer with any shred of integrity would have praised the Bambu Lab printers for their performance, while also cautioning against the closed ecosystem nature of their software and business practices, which is exactly what the good one's did.
@@designbydave it’s not what happening..all ‘you guys’ are reviewers that tell in videos for over two years now -how good Bambulab printer are and praised their performance and HIGHLY recommended them. Now you are all up in arms on not buying them. You sucks.