To prevent overly-bassy raw vocals you need to keep a distance of about 4 to 8 inches from any cardioid mic. Plus with more distance there'll be less dynamic DB range from the vocalist's movements. Placing the pop filter at 4 inches is a good way to enforce that.
That bass on the TLM 103 rolls off very nicely with the lo cut setting on the preamp. The SM7B is definitely very clean and tames vocals that are more powerful and have dynamic changes which may or may not be a good thing depending on the song. If a vocal started out quiet and got more powerful the impact wouldn't be as apparent with the SM7B whereas the TLM 103 would allow all of that musicality to shine through beautifully.
I own the Shure KSM 44 & to my ears it just sounds smoother, with richer presence than the others. I think you hear yourself better & sing better on it. Very nice comparison. Jeanne
The difference between the TLM 103 and the KSM44 is that the TLM has more presence but by presence I mean more body in the lower end which can sometimes come across as "boomy" where as the KSM44 has body but not that "In your face" sound, in which I prefer because boosting presence isn't much of a problem than cutting it for certain genres.
The sm7b needs a lot of gain (amplification) otherwise you get hiss and not such a good sound. You either need a cloud lifter or a interface with a gain of at least 65db.
Long time audio engineer and now mastering engineer here. The Shure KSM44 sounds best by far. Listen to the Ss which the Neumann TLM 103 is sibilant in comparison. I know everyone is impressed with name brands in this consumer culture we live in but the Shure KSM44A definitely has the best sound in this comparison and its not just her performance. Again, listen to the Ss which are the most telling aspect showing the difference between them.
People will ALWAYS have a different opinion but in this situation the KSM44 has bell like clean characteristics in the mid and higher ranges. It sounds crisp and clean
really good job .. i really like the chaper marks for quick comparison .. ALL DEMOS SHOULD BE LIKE THIS !!! As far as mic pre setting .. the first two where you pushed the gain .. you really hear the compression as opposed to the last 2 where U lowered the gain and raised the level which are much more open .. still not sold on TLM103 .. like but not love Good Job ! oh , and nice vocal
Great video! I am interested to know what the settings were on the SM7b? I think what alot of people are hearing in the TLM 103 is the presence and yes it is hotter but that is to be expected from a $1k condenser. The SM7b has a presence boost that helps a lot. You definitely get less sibilants with the SM7b which is very handy when it comes time for compression. The TLM 103 was sibilant even before compression. And also I think if Michael Jacskon used it on his best selling album then it means you dont have to be a screamer to get greatness out of the SM7b. All in all great video though.
Ha, I agree about the MJ comment. Those mics are crazy under rated. They do have a round articulate but soft appeal. They are not as sterile as condensers.
SM7 hands down. To me they just sound like the perfect balance between voice and air. Then again there is a reason they are used in broadcast. They make any voice sound great or at least as good as it can be made. I've heard Butch Walker uses a SM7 to record Pink's vocals.
Through my studio monitors, all three of the mics sound better, when you were pushing them to the green, you could really hear the tubes fixing the harmonics, when it wasn't being pushed the mics sound really clean and much more in your face. I say the first settings really made all the mics sound more tolerable and would fit better in mixes.
For condenser microphones try backing off a bit from them :) make more place from the pop filter to the mic (aprox. 10cm) .. u will get much better sound on the plosives and wind noises and u will get a much better quality on the “sparkles” , 2nd and not less important - the cardioid microphone proximity effect (the closer u go … more bass lift up is building) so if u back off you will get more natural sound …nice video tho :) I like it .. gr8 job
Be careful with your pre amps, you are boosting the signal with the UA pre and then going via XLR into the another pre and then into the computer. The second pre will be designed to boost signal too. You're better of taking a line level (rather than XLR) from the UA pre to the second :)
Good stuff guys. I own both the KSM and TLM. The TLM will always sound fuller, especially if you roll off the bass on the KSM (the switch on the mic). That said, if you have a male voice, the TLM can sound "too full" at times. Both are great mics and proper use depends on the voice and the tone you're going for.
The SM7B, in my opinion, has 'nicer' presence. The low end rolls off in a smooth manner. Thanks for the video! Was wondering if there was video comparing a TLM with the SM7B.
great video......the ksm44 has that great dreamy smooth sound from the 40's & 50's...beautiful.....the Neumann grabs all the glorious sound there is and puts it right out there without pushing it too far....just the right blend in my book stopping me dead in my tracks and holding me captive, losing all my will to break free....beautiful
I'd never heard of the Shure SM7B before this comparison. But, it sounded so much cleaner and warmer and made her voice sound so much nicer (even if you had to jack the gain,) that I've done a lot of research on that mic. I'm gonna buy it and get a "cloudlifter" with it to give a little more clean gain. I really like this mic. Would never have heard it if not for this Comparison. I came here looking for info on the KSM44. This sold me on the SM7B. Thanks for this review...helped a lot.
Sabrina likes the proximity effect on her vocal. The closer the better for her, that's why we have two pop filters on there. However, It was definitely popping more than we were used to with the Shure KSM44 at that distance which could be a problem. Rolling off the bass should help with that a bit. I see nothing wroing with having an abundance of bass considering it gives us more control in post with EQ, it's lack of bass that was ruining the Shure KSM44 for us but it definitely pops less. =/
You need to sing 3-6 inches from the capsule of your mic (place your pop filter). Unless you do this your getting what's called proximity effect. I don't really want to go into that but look it up. Also might be helpful to tilt the too of the mic towards you slightly it can make the high end less harsh.
Would be good to know the converters, cause they impart a sound as well,. As usual the Neumann is seductive, but it sounds hyped. I also surmise it has a greater proximity effect than the others, which is why is sound so bassy, so i don't thins this is a fair comparison of the EQ of the mics. My vote is the KSM44.
You need to be about twice the distance that you are in the video away from those condenser mics. i know cause i have a tlm 103 as well. think of them like a camera or binoculars with a fixed focus. if you are too close it gets too muddy and if you get to far away the same thing. you are getting too much bass, breathy ect that close. try around 12-15in. it will also help with proximity affect so your takes are more consistent.
Sorry if this is a late input, but there is no peaking at all. The reason why you aren't getting a signal light on the preamp using the SM7B is because the SM7B is a less senstive "Dynamic" driver. Hence you need to change the preamp setting from Hi-Z to Lo-Z to get the signal light to pop up. I would advise, if you ever use the SM7B again, for you to switch it to low-z and get that green light out as this will give you better gain structure and raise your mic signal away from the noise floor. Effectively, the Hi-Z, which stands for "High Signal", acts as a 20dB pad for the preamp. The other two mics are "Condenser" mics which need phantom power to run. those usually have hotter but more precise signals. That said, great video!! I liked the comparisons of microphone sound signatures.
Neumann is obviously best for me, but as it is too sensitive, you should had have to keep a bit longer distance out of the mic. Result could be even better, I suppose. Thank you for great test !
After compressors and limiters were applied as well as time based effects like reverb and delay, you will often find that the microphone that sits best in the mix is the one which withstood the mulltitude of manipulations better. Very often it is the one which had better lower mid frequency articulation or the one which rendered a denser harmonic image. Harmonic distortion can go a long way because the consonants occupy more frequencies.
I appreciate you going through those tests. I personally felt the body and character of the SM7b was nicer than either of the other mics. I am monitoring via ATH M50 headphones and both HS50 Monitors and KRK RP8G2s. I am surprised as I imagine its the cheapest of the bunch. Apparently you are supposed to use a FEThead or a CloudLifter before it hits the pre on those guys or you are overdriving the gain on your pre, but even so, I loved the sound of it direct through the 610. Ultimately, it comes down to how the vocal sits within the context of a particular track, and some mics tend to sound better post processing. I personally didn't really like the sound of my buddy's u87ai, but you can tweak that mic to make vox sound great. Sometimes people get excited about the airyness or brightness of a mic during a shootout too, remember you can always EQ. Listen for the character and tone. That SM7b is getting added in my locker NOW!
Always a matter of taste, but listening with some Senn HD 598's right now, I prefer the SM7b over the TLM 103. The TLM sounds great, but the lower frequencies for me seem a bit muddied. The SM7b sounds a bit more naked in comparison, which I prefer it. I do own the SM7b, so I am biased of course. That said, the SM7b does have an annoying noise floor for quiet voices -- even with perfect preamps you are going to get some noise due to -59db output and the 150ohm impedance. Not really a good mic for a quiet voices. period. One thing overlooked regarding the SM7b, being a dynamic mic, is how much it changes in tone depending on the preamp's impedance, etc. The UA 610 does 55db of gain? @ 1.6k ohm of mic impedance I think. While I can't confirm in this case, I find my own voice on a SM7b really likes high mic impedance; it starts to come alive and breath for me as I hit around 3k-ohm. If you have something like a Cloudlifter-CLZ, you can play with the tone via the variable impedance to find something that works best for you, while ensuring fairly high end clean gain. 55db of gain is a bit low for the SM7b, especially with a quiet voice, but not really a requirement if you have a low-noise audio chain. Unlike most condenser mic, the SM7B really depends on the preamp used to sound acceptable, so keep an open mind when making comparisons of it.
Hello? Is this on? Can you hear me? youtube may have me blocked. Not sure. I think I said something that they didn't like somewhere along the line. Anyway, The SM7B is a low output mic. Some preamps have enough power for it, but some preamps make a little noise when you push them hard, so a lot of people use a cloudlifter between the SM7B and the preamp to increase the gain before the signal gets to the preamp. I thought that the SM7B sounded really great on her voice though. I liked it a lot. I own one. Great mic. It's actually a broadcast mic and she sounded like a professional broadcaster when she spoke into it too. That is actually the mic used on the Thriller CD from Michael Jackson and I think that Sammy Hagar has recorded with it as well. On the 2nd pass, I really liked the 103 on her voice too. Very nice. The Shure KSM44 sounded great and it is a great mic, but the other mics matched her specific voice best ... in my opinion, listening to youtube audio. I hope that you get to read this. That is a great mic collection right there. Great choices.
The Neumann has 'something' about it...some special sauce that I can't immediately identify. A spark that the other two mics lack. The KSM44 seems just kind of 'flat'...as in lifeless. The SM7B sounds fine, albeit a little muddy/bass-y. Perhaps if the low shelf were switched in then the SM7B would sound a bit better. For me, in this particular case, with this vocalist, using this outboard equipment, I give it to the TLM 103 easily.
Fantastic review. Thanks guys. I think the TLM 103 sounds warmer, but she is singing an octave higher. The Shure SM7B sounds similar, but just not as warm. However, the SM7B is $350 and the TLM $1,100, and is fragile (condenser mic). For sketches, I'd go with the cheaper one and use the TLM for final recording in the studio.
i find the tlm surprisingly way to bright that shure ksm44 stold my heart and the show i love how flat it is no peak or bright problems with that mic what so ever it reminds me of a u47
honestly, I have found myself through a blue bird and pres sonus pre amp! I just bought a shure sm7b I will say this ,... using a blue bird amped up will teach the artist how to move with ease while singing or rapping because the blue bird is in My humble opinion is a great starter mic, and if you use the distance and range right you can actually pull off more BUT i will agree you have to be SO aware of the redline/ and stay in mid range !
You definitely need a somewhat high quality yet flat set of speakers or headphones to hear the difference. There also tends to be a pretty big difference in bass from mic to mic so if your speakers don't produce bass very well they are sure to sound the same.
There is a technical reason behind it. Condenser mics are just more sensitive by design. That is why it sounds fuller and better. TLM however really warms up your vocals more than most, because it's probably more expensive. However that dynamic mic would be lovely for a boom since it's more rugged :)
I think the point of comparison is to find the better mic to buy, and I don't think there can be a super clear winner. Its all about what you use it for/what you might use it for later.
There really is no right or wrong way to record audio. There is only what sounds good to you and what doesn't. That being said, a couple tips: 1. The traditional method for preamp usage is to set it so that the light turns yellow at the loudest part of the performance. This usually results in the warmest ('tubiest') sound. 2. The TLM 103 sounds really bass-heavy because of its strong proximity effect. Backing away from the mic will make it sound more natural.
for the signal it is just because the sm7b is not phantom powered so you need to buy an adaptor FETHEAD to give the same gain and have a good result for that kind of mics.
Because I would be forced to use the built in preamps in my fireface 400 since I only have one channel on the new preamp and that wouldn't be very accurate considering we will be using the UA SOLO/610 from now on. From what I understand, the Neumann uses electronics that is very relent on a good preamp so it wouldn't be a very fair comparison.
+sonofnothing Yeah, we had just gotten the preamp at the time and I knew very little about it. Looking back at this video now I can't believe I thought green was peaking. Now I know that yellow means approaching clipping and red is clipping. I must have read it wrong at the time or something. I believe I had just received the preamp in the mail at the time and was really excited to do some tests so I guess I wasn't thinking straight haha.
I noticed her lips were level with the floor of the mic on both of the condenser tests. This and distance had a direct influence on sibilance and nasal-ness, in addition to what distance may have contributed. If you can do so safely, it is better to hang a singer's microphone upside down, so that the nasal sound doesn't bounce off the floor of the mic into the diaphragm. It is also helpful to ensure that the lips are level with the diaphragm, rather than the floor of the condenser. That detail might have led to a more fair comparison.
Hi guys, really enjoyed this vid. I think the TLM sounds good, would need some eq to roll off the bottom end though....would sound a bit muddy in a mix. I like the SM7b...sounds great, would cut through a mix...less room noise. Maybe crank the gain a bit more...they love it. Most use it on male vocals but sounds really good on Sabrina's voice. Great on guitar cabs as well. I remove the windscreen on mine and use a pop filter...sounds different again Good comparison, thanks :)
Thanks, I've been drooling over the TLM103. (Ronin's favorite OH mic.) In the first segment there is a bit too much proximity, but overall very helpful. Blessings :^)
There are a bunch of great mics out there (for vocals) but if you get on the mix stage, and you have to mix your vocals in to a backing track, or in an instrumental music... now there is the sweet spot what mic and preamp have you used in your recording... The tone of the preamp, the mic and the quality of the eq. so- so important in the sound and the character. So, I just want to say, you have a great voice and quality equipment there. You can't go wrong with the UAD pre and a Neumann combo.;)
I use a cloudlifter with my shure sm7b's, it gives you a lot of gain without having to turn up the volume and you don't get any of the room noise. I just picked up that Neumann mic today. I think it sounded great! She was right about the sm7b, it is amazing for loud rock and metal vocals. It can take a lot of loudness and the Neumann is awesome for clarity and softness. It's also great on acoustic guitar. When using the sm7b, I roll off the bass with acoustic instruments. Always sounds so great. All of these mics are great. I have a studio and they all have their individual sounds and purposes. But put them all together, use the Neumann as the main vocal, the sm7b to the left of the singer, and the other shure as a room mic would make for some dynamic and large vocals. I enjoyed the video. Take care!
I would have to agree with Christian fulljames the 103 sounds warmer just back off the mic a bit will help with the over powering low end, to be honest I didn't really like the esses on the shure... Love the mic just not sure..
Neumann sounds very good. full with plenty of bottom end. I think I would prefer the Shure SM7B in the context of a mix though. Works very well with the mids in Sabrina's voice
The Neumann is very smooth and warm, and still cuts great. The ksm44 seemed to have a little more point on the top end, it all depends on what you need. As for the sm7b, I'm not particularly fond of it, it seems to compress the tone a little too much, although it is quieter as far as room noise. I would say Neumann, you can always brighten with EQ if needed, it'd be my pick
IMHO I believe the TLM sounds the best raw performance-wise. The Shure she's more comfortable with doesn't sound too bad either, it's seems to pick up the low mid body of her voice better giving the performance a more intimate experience for the listeners... Although the tlm is the clear winner in this mic shootout , my/our jobs as audio engineers are to make the client feel comfortable while recording enabling us to capture the best vocal performance. In short the Her handy 3yr Shure takes the cake in this situation.
The Shure SM7B, the brighter character and the lack of "false" bass just is a day and night difference, even with the lack of proper usage on the 610 lunch box pre-amp.
TLM was brightest of the bunch (despite proximity effect, probably would of had her back up a tad), KSM was very neutral (very safe choice), Sm7b solo'd wasnt too impressive but in a mix might have worked pretty good also to me it sounded thinner but I assume thats because she was backed off the sm7b by almost 6 inches or more (since the mic is already recessed about 3 inches or so under the wind guard.) As far as the preamp I think you want it to light up green
It always boils down to personal taste. It's good to have different mics ready for different clients. By the way Michael Jackson used shure sm7b in some of his recorded songs.
The Shure removes breath and clips the “s” sounds. Much flatter than I expected. Almost feel that it should not be doing that automatically and should be an optional setting or something controlled in Post. Interesting. Thanks.
A transformer-less microphone should be combined with a transformer based micpreamp. The transformer would add definition to the lower midrange by adding some harmonic distortion while rolling off the low and high end thus leading to e more focused tone with more definition and harmonic density. This is particularly of benefit with dense sounding and crowded mixes. A tube micpre will most certainly impart a more linear lower frequency range with less filtering going on. The microphone needs to be positioned farther away from the mouth in order to avoid any occurrence of t^he proximity effect, Harmonic density is and lower mid-frequency articulation is what allows a vocal track to sit in the foreground. Just listen to the "catch you" part of the vocal performance between the KSM44 and the TLM103 and you will know what I mean-
I have a Tlm 103, sm7b and a Se z5600a ii! For me it is all about your room! No booth then the SM7B is great! TLM 103 is a good all rounder! I disliked the SE until i replaced the tube! Totally transformed it!
Honestly, I thought the Shure KSM44 sounded best (with no peaking). And not because Sabrina sang it better or anything, because she sounded great on all the takes to me, but I dunno... There was a clarity with it. I almost felt like the others were less clear. You should probably test with a less soft song, though, because that's when clarity vs. feedback will be most noticeable (shouting/high notes).
Shure SM7B is usually used in metal vocals, at least what I know about it. Screaming, growling etc. But Neumann and KSM44 would probably be better recording clean and more soft vocals. And SM7B would also be great overhead for drums (I suppose) or guitar cabs
I think the Tlm 103 has a boomy low end which can be eq'ed out and I do own one and like it very much. However the sm7b has stolen my heart because of its uniqueness. I've never heard another mic that sounds like it. Be warned though with the sm7b you must have an external preamp otherwise it won't sound so great due to gain issues.
I favor the sm7b due to its uniqueness. These days I use an off brand mic. The hulk 990 MJE. He takes mxl 990's takes out all components and builds his own mic out of the shell. Basically he clones nuemann U87's and they sound almost exactly the same. Amazing really and only $450. I recommend it.
It's green because it has phantom power coming through it green doesn't mean peaking because peaking is used in the same light as clipping. Green is good, yellow is ok and red is bad. I think either it's because dynamics doesn't need phantom power so it doesn't show the light for the signal or that dynamic mic takes a lot more to drive idk
Nice tutorial! But you have to keep in mind, you don't use the microphone in the mix without eq, and compression (and without fx of course) So work with them. Put the recorded vocals in the mix, then make your choice, because it will be really big suprise when you can't put the recorded vocals in the mix properly...
I'm currently awaiting the arrival of my own UA solo 610.Coincidentally I run a FF400 too on an early version of cubase (not sure what daw is running on here) so thanks for doing this upload.
I had the TLM103 and I have the AKG C414 XLII but I never did a shoot out with the 2 before I got rid of the TLM103. Wish I had. Gonna grab another TLM103 soon tho. Will post a vid when I do.
i would choose the tlm103 to sit in the full mix. ksm44 is also a great mic....but not a colored forward midrange mic like you would want for female lead (Depending on the singer of course) ksm44 is great for overheads, room mics and pretty much anything else you put it on. always gotta think "in the mix" not alone.
To prevent overly-bassy raw vocals you need to keep a distance of about 4 to 8 inches from any cardioid mic. Plus with more distance there'll be less dynamic DB range from the vocalist's movements. Placing the pop filter at 4 inches is a good way to enforce that.
That bass on the TLM 103 rolls off very nicely with the lo cut setting on the preamp. The SM7B is definitely very clean and tames vocals that are more powerful and have dynamic changes which may or may not be a good thing depending on the song. If a vocal started out quiet and got more powerful the impact wouldn't be as apparent with the SM7B whereas the TLM 103 would allow all of that musicality to shine through beautifully.
I own the Shure KSM 44 & to my ears it just sounds smoother, with richer presence than the others. I think you hear yourself better & sing better on it.
Very nice comparison.
Jeanne
The difference between the TLM 103 and the KSM44 is that the TLM has more presence but by presence I mean more body in the lower end which can sometimes come across as "boomy" where as the KSM44 has body but not that "In your face" sound, in which I prefer because boosting presence isn't much of a problem than cutting it for certain genres.
the shure's sound amazing.
your natural speech voice is very beautiful/ TLM103 sounds best in my oppinion
The Shure SM7B was my favorite sounding
The sm7b needs a lot of gain (amplification) otherwise you get hiss and not such a good sound. You either need a cloud lifter or a interface with a gain of at least 65db.
Idiot
@@stanleynowak9325 gosh? it's an opinion
Long time audio engineer and now mastering engineer here. The Shure KSM44 sounds best by far. Listen to the Ss which the Neumann TLM 103 is sibilant in comparison. I know everyone is impressed with name brands in this consumer culture we live in but the Shure KSM44A definitely has the best sound in this comparison and its not just her performance. Again, listen to the Ss which are the most telling aspect showing the difference between them.
2:03 yeah girl...you was singing nice...you guys are awesome..nice couple..wish I have a life and place like this
Ksm44 pics up her vice really good not just saying that because the performents
I use the TLM103 as my main studio microphone, it's a great all rounder.
Shure sm7b is my favorite. The quality sounds really really good. But that might just be my preference. But that is my favorite
People will ALWAYS have a different opinion but in this situation the KSM44 has bell like clean characteristics in the mid and higher ranges. It sounds crisp and clean
really good job .. i really like the chaper marks for quick comparison .. ALL DEMOS SHOULD BE LIKE THIS !!!
As far as mic pre setting .. the first two where you pushed the gain .. you really hear the compression as opposed to the last 2 where U lowered the gain and raised the level which are much more open .. still not sold on TLM103 .. like but not love
Good Job ! oh , and nice vocal
Great video! I am interested to know what the settings were on the SM7b? I think what alot of people are hearing in the TLM 103 is the presence and yes it is hotter but that is to be expected from a $1k condenser.
The SM7b has a presence boost that helps a lot. You definitely get less sibilants with the SM7b which is very handy when it comes time for compression. The TLM 103 was sibilant even before compression.
And also I think if Michael Jacskon used it on his best selling album then it means you dont have to be a screamer to get greatness out of the SM7b. All in all great video though.
Ha, I agree about the MJ comment. Those mics are crazy under rated. They do have a round articulate but soft appeal. They are not as sterile as condensers.
I love the shortcut to get the sound of the mic, really, big up ! Exactly what's every listener need to get an idea and compare correctly mics !
The KSM44 pics up the richest vocal characteristics.
wow the ksm shure sounds amazing!
SM7 hands down. To me they just sound like the perfect balance between voice and air. Then again there is a reason they are used in broadcast. They make any voice sound great or at least as good as it can be made. I've heard Butch Walker uses a SM7 to record Pink's vocals.
Through my studio monitors, all three of the mics sound better, when you were pushing them to the green, you could really hear the tubes fixing the harmonics, when it wasn't being pushed the mics sound really clean and much more in your face. I say the first settings really made all the mics sound more tolerable and would fit better in mixes.
For condenser microphones try backing off a bit from them :) make more place from the pop filter to the mic (aprox. 10cm) .. u will get much better sound on the plosives and wind noises and u will get a much better quality on the “sparkles” , 2nd and not less important - the cardioid microphone proximity effect (the closer u go … more bass lift up is building) so if u back off you will get more natural sound …nice video tho :) I like it .. gr8 job
I agree with Jonathan, the KSM44 is the best, no peaking. my headphones aren't that bass-y though so yeah
Be careful with your pre amps, you are boosting the signal with the UA pre and then going via XLR into the another pre and then into the computer. The second pre will be designed to boost signal too. You're better of taking a line level (rather than XLR) from the UA pre to the second :)
Good stuff guys. I own both the KSM and TLM. The TLM will always sound fuller, especially if you roll off the bass on the KSM (the switch on the mic). That said, if you have a male voice, the TLM can sound "too full" at times. Both are great mics and proper use depends on the voice and the tone you're going for.
The SM7B, in my opinion, has 'nicer' presence. The low end rolls off in a smooth manner. Thanks for the video! Was wondering if there was video comparing a TLM with the SM7B.
great video......the ksm44 has that great dreamy smooth sound from the 40's & 50's...beautiful.....the Neumann grabs all the glorious sound there is and puts it right out there without pushing it too far....just the right blend in my book stopping me dead in my tracks and holding me captive, losing all my will to break free....beautiful
I'd never heard of the Shure SM7B before this comparison. But, it sounded so much cleaner and warmer and made her voice sound so much nicer (even if you had to jack the gain,) that I've done a lot of research on that mic.
I'm gonna buy it and get a "cloudlifter" with it to give a little more clean gain. I really like this mic. Would never have heard it if not for this Comparison. I came here looking for info on the KSM44. This sold me on the SM7B. Thanks for this review...helped a lot.
Nice vocals, I am considering getting the TLM 103 so this helped out a lot. I like it's sound over the other. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Sabrina likes the proximity effect on her vocal. The closer the better for her, that's why we have two pop filters on there. However, It was definitely popping more than we were used to with the Shure KSM44 at that distance which could be a problem. Rolling off the bass should help with that a bit. I see nothing wroing with having an abundance of bass considering it gives us more control in post with EQ, it's lack of bass that was ruining the Shure KSM44 for us but it definitely pops less. =/
You need to sing 3-6 inches from the capsule of your mic (place your pop filter). Unless you do this your getting what's called proximity effect. I don't really want to go into that but look it up. Also might be helpful to tilt the too of the mic towards you slightly it can make the high end less harsh.
Would be good to know the converters, cause they impart a sound as well,. As usual the Neumann is seductive, but it sounds hyped. I also surmise it has a greater proximity effect than the others, which is why is sound so bassy, so i don't thins this is a fair comparison of the EQ of the mics. My vote is the KSM44.
Ufff beautiful mics... The TLM 103 sounds incredible honest but, to the girl voice the KSM44 sounds more pleasant match... Thanks for the test!!
Thank you! I have the KSM44 and was considering buying the 610
You need to be about twice the distance that you are in the video away from those condenser mics. i know cause i have a tlm 103 as well. think of them like a camera or binoculars with a fixed focus. if you are too close it gets too muddy and if you get to far away the same thing. you are getting too much bass, breathy ect that close. try around 12-15in. it will also help with proximity affect so your takes are more consistent.
Dat proximity effect
Sorry if this is a late input, but there is no peaking at all. The reason why you aren't getting a signal light on the preamp using the SM7B is because the SM7B is a less senstive "Dynamic" driver. Hence you need to change the preamp setting from Hi-Z to Lo-Z to get the signal light to pop up. I would advise, if you ever use the SM7B again, for you to switch it to low-z and get that green light out as this will give you better gain structure and raise your mic signal away from the noise floor.
Effectively, the Hi-Z, which stands for "High Signal", acts as a 20dB pad for the preamp. The other two mics are "Condenser" mics which need phantom power to run. those usually have hotter but more precise signals.
That said, great video!! I liked the comparisons of microphone sound signatures.
Neumann is obviously best for me, but as it is too sensitive, you should had have to keep a bit longer distance out of the mic. Result could be even better, I suppose. Thank you for great test !
After compressors and limiters were applied as well as time based effects like reverb and delay, you will often find that the microphone that sits best in the mix is the one which withstood the mulltitude of manipulations better. Very often it is the one which had better lower mid frequency articulation or the one which rendered a denser harmonic image. Harmonic distortion can go a long way because the consonants occupy more frequencies.
Great review guys ! and what a lovely voice you have.
I appreciate you going through those tests. I personally felt the body and character of the SM7b was nicer than either of the other mics. I am monitoring via ATH M50 headphones and both HS50 Monitors and KRK RP8G2s.
I am surprised as I imagine its the cheapest of the bunch. Apparently you are supposed to use a FEThead or a CloudLifter before it hits the pre on those guys or you are overdriving the gain on your pre, but even so, I loved the sound of it direct through the 610.
Ultimately, it comes down to how the vocal sits within the context of a particular track, and some mics tend to sound better post processing. I personally didn't really like the sound of my buddy's u87ai, but you can tweak that mic to make vox sound great.
Sometimes people get excited about the airyness or brightness of a mic during a shootout too, remember you can always EQ. Listen for the character and tone. That SM7b is getting added in my locker NOW!
To me TLM103 sound incredible in her voice!
Always a matter of taste, but listening with some Senn HD 598's right now, I prefer the SM7b over the TLM 103. The TLM sounds great, but the lower frequencies for me seem a bit muddied. The SM7b sounds a bit more naked in comparison, which I prefer it. I do own the SM7b, so I am biased of course. That said, the SM7b does have an annoying noise floor for quiet voices -- even with perfect preamps you are going to get some noise due to -59db output and the 150ohm impedance. Not really a good mic for a quiet voices. period.
One thing overlooked regarding the SM7b, being a dynamic mic, is how much it changes in tone depending on the preamp's impedance, etc. The UA 610 does 55db of gain? @ 1.6k ohm of mic impedance I think. While I can't confirm in this case, I find my own voice on a SM7b really likes high mic impedance; it starts to come alive and breath for me as I hit around 3k-ohm. If you have something like a Cloudlifter-CLZ, you can play with the tone via the variable impedance to find something that works best for you, while ensuring fairly high end clean gain.
55db of gain is a bit low for the SM7b, especially with a quiet voice, but not really a requirement if you have a low-noise audio chain. Unlike most condenser mic, the SM7B really depends on the preamp used to sound acceptable, so keep an open mind when making comparisons of it.
Steve Seguin I'm going to have to look into getting a Cloudlifter-CLZ for my SM7B. Thanks for the comment
Hello? Is this on? Can you hear me? youtube may have me blocked. Not sure. I think I said something that they didn't like somewhere along the line. Anyway, The SM7B is a low output mic. Some preamps have enough power for it, but some preamps make a little noise when you push them hard, so a lot of people use a cloudlifter between the SM7B and the preamp to increase the gain before the signal gets to the preamp. I thought that the SM7B sounded really great on her voice though. I liked it a lot. I own one. Great mic. It's actually a broadcast mic and she sounded like a professional broadcaster when she spoke into it too. That is actually the mic used on the Thriller CD from Michael Jackson and I think that Sammy Hagar has recorded with it as well. On the 2nd pass, I really liked the 103 on her voice too. Very nice. The Shure KSM44 sounded great and it is a great mic, but the other mics matched her specific voice best ... in my opinion, listening to youtube audio. I hope that you get to read this. That is a great mic collection right there. Great choices.
The Neumann has 'something' about it...some special sauce that I can't immediately identify. A spark that the other two mics lack. The KSM44 seems just kind of 'flat'...as in lifeless. The SM7B sounds fine, albeit a little muddy/bass-y. Perhaps if the low shelf were switched in then the SM7B would sound a bit better. For me, in this particular case, with this vocalist, using this outboard equipment, I give it to the TLM 103 easily.
Fantastic review. Thanks guys. I think the TLM 103 sounds warmer, but she is singing an octave higher. The Shure SM7B sounds similar, but just not as warm. However, the SM7B is $350 and the TLM $1,100, and is fragile (condenser mic). For sketches, I'd go with the cheaper one and use the TLM for final recording in the studio.
What I like about this example is that you can really hear what the UA 610 is doing to the frequencies down to around 500 Hz.
The Neumann has a bright sound thats very fitting on female vocals. Im intrigued.
Great Vid guys. Thanks! Side Note: Michael Jackson recorded "Thriller" with the Shure SM7B
i find the tlm surprisingly way to bright that shure ksm44 stold my heart and the show i love how flat it is no peak or bright problems with that mic what so ever it reminds me of a u47
honestly, I have found myself through a blue bird and pres sonus pre amp!
I just bought a shure sm7b
I will say this ,... using a blue bird amped up will teach the artist how to move with ease while singing or rapping because the blue bird is in My humble opinion is a great starter mic, and if you use the distance and range right you can actually pull off more BUT i will agree you have to be SO aware of the redline/ and stay in mid range !
You definitely need a somewhat high quality yet flat set of speakers or headphones to hear the difference. There also tends to be a pretty big difference in bass from mic to mic so if your speakers don't produce bass very well they are sure to sound the same.
sm7b sounds great on here voice!! That means Neumann u47 for condenser and not a shure ksm44.
I have always heard to push your signal peak to be just before yellow. It eases the work of compressors and keeps a strong signal to noise ratio
There is a technical reason behind it. Condenser mics are just more sensitive by design. That is why it sounds fuller and better. TLM however really warms up your vocals more than most, because it's probably more expensive. However that dynamic mic would be lovely for a boom since it's more rugged :)
I think the point of comparison is to find the better mic to buy, and I don't think there can be a super clear winner. Its all about what you use it for/what you might use it for later.
There really is no right or wrong way to record audio. There is only what sounds good to you and what doesn't. That being said, a couple tips:
1. The traditional method for preamp usage is to set it so that the light turns yellow at the loudest part of the performance. This usually results in the warmest ('tubiest') sound.
2. The TLM 103 sounds really bass-heavy because of its strong proximity effect. Backing away from the mic will make it sound more natural.
I like the Neumann TLM 103 the most. I feel like it sounds the most clean and up front if that makes any sense.
for the signal it is just because the sm7b is not phantom powered so you need to buy an adaptor FETHEAD to give the same gain and have a good result for that kind of mics.
Because I would be forced to use the built in preamps in my fireface 400 since I only have one channel on the new preamp and that wouldn't be very accurate considering we will be using the UA SOLO/610 from now on. From what I understand, the Neumann uses electronics that is very relent on a good preamp so it wouldn't be a very fair comparison.
The green light shows it's getting signal. It's not a bad thing. Clipping is bad. You can dial in the gain and when you see yellow, back it off a bit.
+sonofnothing Yeah, we had just gotten the preamp at the time and I knew very little about it. Looking back at this video now I can't believe I thought green was peaking. Now I know that yellow means approaching clipping and red is clipping. I must have read it wrong at the time or something. I believe I had just received the preamp in the mail at the time and was really excited to do some tests so I guess I wasn't thinking straight haha.
hey bro you should do the same vide but using the preamp right.. im sure the saturation makes the tlm 103 sound good
I noticed her lips were level with the floor of the mic on both of the condenser tests. This and distance had a direct influence on sibilance and nasal-ness, in addition to what distance may have contributed. If you can do so safely, it is better to hang a singer's microphone upside down, so that the nasal sound doesn't bounce off the floor of the mic into the diaphragm. It is also helpful to ensure that the lips are level with the diaphragm, rather than the floor of the condenser. That detail might have led to a more fair comparison.
Thanks for the demo! I own an Sm-7b and it sounds great, looking about changing to the TLM 103 though cause my cousin owned one and it sounded great.
Hi guys, really enjoyed this vid.
I think the TLM sounds good, would need some eq to roll off the bottom end though....would sound a bit muddy in a mix.
I like the SM7b...sounds great, would cut through a mix...less room noise. Maybe crank the gain a bit more...they love it. Most use it on male vocals but sounds really good on Sabrina's voice. Great on guitar cabs as well.
I remove the windscreen on mine and use a pop filter...sounds different again
Good comparison, thanks :)
Thanks, I've been drooling over the TLM103. (Ronin's favorite OH mic.)
In the first segment there is a bit too much proximity, but overall very helpful.
Blessings :^)
+jafmusicmix.com - Correction KSM32
+jafmusicmix.com the ksm44 here is the same mic as ksm32 but with 2 capsules instead of one and a switch for 3 polar patterns
no it's not..
2 different sounding mics even when both are on cardiod
There are a bunch of great mics out there (for vocals) but if you get on the mix stage,
and you have to mix your vocals in to a backing track, or in an instrumental music...
now there is the sweet spot what mic and preamp have you used in your recording...
The tone of the preamp, the mic and the quality of the eq. so- so important in the sound and the character.
So, I just want to say, you have a great voice and quality equipment there. You can't go wrong with the UAD pre and a Neumann combo.;)
I use a cloudlifter with my shure sm7b's, it gives you a lot of gain without having to turn up the volume and you don't get any of the room noise. I just picked up that Neumann mic today. I think it sounded great! She was right about the sm7b, it is amazing for loud rock and metal vocals. It can take a lot of loudness and the Neumann is awesome for clarity and softness. It's also great on acoustic guitar. When using the sm7b, I roll off the bass with acoustic instruments. Always sounds so great. All of these mics are great. I have a studio and they all have their individual sounds and purposes. But put them all together, use the Neumann as the main vocal, the sm7b to the left of the singer, and the other shure as a room mic would make for some dynamic and large vocals. I enjoyed the video. Take care!
Ksm44 picks up guitar sounds very beautiful as well !
The Neumann sounded the best to me. I'd definitely try a few different type of vocals before choosing though.
Btw that "standard one for recording" that the KSM is set to is a polar pattern known as cardioid.
I would have to agree with Christian fulljames the 103 sounds warmer just back off the mic a bit will help with the over powering low end, to be honest I didn't really like the esses on the shure... Love the mic just not sure..
the Shure mic's are ok but the Newman Mic has a bit more Treble and has a really good bright Sparkly sound Do you Agree!
Neumann sounds very good. full with plenty of bottom end.
I think I would prefer the Shure SM7B in the context of a mix though. Works very well with the mids in Sabrina's voice
The Neumann is very smooth and warm, and still cuts great. The ksm44 seemed to have a little more point on the top end, it all depends on what you need. As for the sm7b, I'm not particularly fond of it, it seems to compress the tone a little too much, although it is quieter as far as room noise. I would say Neumann, you can always brighten with EQ if needed, it'd be my pick
Hey this is very nice !!! I have a tlm 103 myself and I plan on getting the solo very soon and also what interface are you guys using ?
IMHO I believe the TLM sounds the best raw performance-wise. The Shure she's more comfortable with doesn't sound too bad either, it's seems to pick up the low mid body of her voice better giving the performance a more intimate experience for the listeners... Although the tlm is the clear winner in this mic shootout , my/our jobs as audio engineers are to make the client feel comfortable while recording enabling us to capture the best vocal performance. In short the Her handy 3yr Shure takes the cake in this situation.
ksm44 sounds awesome
Just stumbled across this. Really enjoyed the video
The Shure SM7B, the brighter character and the lack of "false" bass just is a day and night difference, even with the lack of proper usage on the 610 lunch box pre-amp.
If you aren't doing any post work, then 103. Otherwise, either Shure mic over the 103. I'd take the 44.
TLM was brightest of the bunch (despite proximity effect, probably would of had her back up a tad), KSM was very neutral (very safe choice), Sm7b solo'd wasnt too impressive but in a mix might have worked pretty good also to me it sounded thinner but I assume thats because she was backed off the sm7b by almost 6 inches or more (since the mic is already recessed about 3 inches or so under the wind guard.) As far as the preamp I think you want it to light up green
It always boils down to personal taste. It's good to have different mics ready for different clients. By the way Michael Jackson used shure sm7b in some of his recorded songs.
I cant really pick the difference between the condensers but the new preamp has a nice warmth to it
The Shure removes breath and clips the “s” sounds. Much flatter than I expected. Almost feel that it should not be doing that automatically and should be an optional setting or something controlled in Post. Interesting. Thanks.
A transformer-less microphone should be combined with a transformer based micpreamp. The transformer would add definition to the lower midrange by adding some harmonic distortion while rolling off the low and high end thus leading to e more focused tone with more definition and harmonic density. This is particularly of benefit with dense sounding and crowded mixes.
A tube micpre will most certainly impart a more linear lower frequency range with less filtering going on. The microphone needs to be positioned farther away from the mouth in order to avoid any occurrence of t^he proximity effect,
Harmonic density is and lower mid-frequency articulation is what allows a vocal track to sit in the foreground. Just listen to the "catch you" part of the vocal performance between the KSM44 and the TLM103 and you will know what I mean-
I have a Tlm 103, sm7b and a Se z5600a ii!
For me it is all about your room!
No booth then the SM7B is great!
TLM 103 is a good all rounder!
I disliked the SE until i replaced the tube! Totally transformed it!
TLM103 would be an excellent studio/recording mic, but the SM7B sounds incredible because it has that "live" aspect to it, if that makes sense.
Honestly, I thought the Shure KSM44 sounded best (with no peaking). And not because Sabrina sang it better or anything, because she sounded great on all the takes to me, but I dunno... There was a clarity with it. I almost felt like the others were less clear. You should probably test with a less soft song, though, because that's when clarity vs. feedback will be most noticeable (shouting/high notes).
Shure SM7B is usually used in metal vocals, at least what I know about it. Screaming, growling etc. But Neumann and KSM44 would probably be better recording clean and more soft vocals. And SM7B would also be great overhead for drums (I suppose) or guitar cabs
The Neumannfor me, but im not Suprised.. The shure tends to shine more on screaming, rapping or male vocals ime, fits me great x
I think the Tlm 103 has a boomy low end which can be eq'ed out and I do own one and like it very much. However the sm7b has stolen my heart because of its uniqueness. I've never heard another mic that sounds like it. Be warned though with the sm7b you must have an external preamp otherwise it won't sound so great due to gain issues.
I favor the sm7b due to its uniqueness. These days I use an off brand mic. The hulk 990 MJE. He takes mxl 990's takes out all components and builds his own mic out of the shell. Basically he clones nuemann U87's and they sound almost exactly the same. Amazing really and only $450. I recommend it.
Ive owned both and I far prefer the TLM 103. Neumann FTW
Sabrina your voice in all the takes was beautiful
I 100% agree, the nueman was a bit too bass heavy for Sabrinas otherwise lite and somewhat airy voice.
It's green because it has phantom power coming through it green doesn't mean peaking because peaking is used in the same light as clipping. Green is good, yellow is ok and red is bad. I think either it's because dynamics doesn't need phantom power so it doesn't show the light for the signal or that dynamic mic takes a lot more to drive idk
2nd time around I still like the KSM44 the most. has nothing to do with Sabrina's singing
I definitely like the SM7b and a the KSM44 for her voice. The nueman tlm103 was very bass heavy.
Nice tutorial! But you have to keep in mind, you don't use the microphone in the mix without eq, and compression (and without fx of course) So work with them. Put the recorded vocals in the mix, then make your choice, because it will be really big suprise when you can't put the recorded vocals in the mix properly...
I'm currently awaiting the arrival of my own UA solo 610.Coincidentally I run a FF400 too on an early version of cubase (not sure what daw is running on here) so thanks for doing this upload.
I had the TLM103 and I have the AKG C414 XLII but I never did a shoot out with the 2 before I got rid of the TLM103. Wish I had. Gonna grab another TLM103 soon tho. Will post a vid when I do.
i would choose the tlm103 to sit in the full mix. ksm44 is also a great mic....but not a colored forward midrange mic like you would want for female lead (Depending on the singer of course) ksm44 is great for overheads, room mics and pretty much anything else you put it on. always gotta think "in the mix" not alone.
I agree with Blake 103 then 44 then 7b How about a test with out the universal preamp - Charles