Hydrogen From Graphite And Urea
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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An improved dry cell electrolysing urea for the production of hydrogen. DOn't forget that you can buy my books on grahene, supercapacitors, etc. and kits/materials for your own experiments from the webshop at secure.working...
The members channel is the best bargain on the internet! And I'm not just saying that. I've been following Rob since about 2014 and when he offered the members only channel, I joined immediately. I have not been disappointed at all. It's like having a trained research scientist working for you for $5 dollars a month. Lol. "Crowed funded" "open source" research is the wave of the future, it keeps the control out of the hands of a few and gives it back to the people..
lol - thanks for taking the time to say so mate - the support really is well appreciated
I'm 100% agree with you! This membership is a bargain and like you I never been diapointed.
lol that perspective is true xD
Robert Murray-Smith Where do I join the Members Channel please??
@@phillamb50 there is a button left from the subscription button, under every video.
Man your bangin out a video every day,keep up the good work Robert this is better than TV
lol - cheers mate
Join as a member so he can bang out more!!
I'm really enjoying the content
I agree with this
Bah, TV. It’s BTL, better than life, so don‘t get lost in it :)
(For this you‘d had to know certain SciFi Genres:)
The membership is the only tranaction every month i smile at when i see it . Makes me feel great !
Hi Rob,
You probably know this but for these so called "dry cells" you want to put the gas output pipe back into the water reservoir. This way it does not matter where the water level is in the reservoir/tank, you can even mount the tank well above the cell if you want.
The gas output line will now put out both gas and the water (electrolyte) so you take the actual gas output from the top of the water (electrolyte) reservoir/tank, through at least a water bubbler (flashback arrestor is a nice thing to have also)
This does require a sealed reservoir/tank, but in my opinion it is a good setup. Keep up the good work, sorry for the essay lol!
I do mate - I am just making this as simple as possible for the experiments - but your comments are spot on and very good advice
@@ThinkingandTinkering I hope you see my comment on the main thread, not reply on a reply, u get what i mean
Just wanted to say that I work for a space company and I've shared what you're doing with the engineering crew. They LOVE you. They're very impressed.
Mate! - that is awesome to hear - thanks for sharing that - you made my day - cheers
😃 That really is magnificent!
@@ThinkingandTinkering - If you get snaffled by NASA Rob, can you promise to keep posting videos up for us ?
I just think the gentleman is simply brilliant... bit like 'gardeners watch time'...years ago.. BBC
He's so easy to understand.
Thank you...👍👏👏
I was just looking at tbe prices of 316L stainless sheet, and given that the plates won't last forever regardless, it has me thinking about the fact that I can pull pieces of charcoal out of my woodstove that will register less than an ohm of resistance across them. The trick is to get the fire very hot by blowing on it. Years ago I wanted to use a microwave to further the graphitization, and I found that it worked, but for some strange reason I got hung up on the idea of creating a vacuum inside of it, vs just using a simple kiln. Graphite is a susceptor material, so it will get especially hot in a microwave. So, the idea then is to make the charcoal almost as conductive as metal, which will work with a microwave kiln for sure, and then find a way to consolidate the resulting material into conductive sheets by grinding them and perhaps binding them with something that is insoluble in water? There has to be a way to get sufficient conductivity. . . Maybe this sort of carbon could be used to make all of the neutral plates without actually being so conductive? I am not really sure how the voltage manages to spread evenly between the plates, being that they are not physically connected to anything except the electrolyte, but evidently it does. If I manage to figure this one out I will try to share the results somehow. DIY carbon or flake graphite in a slightly less conductive form due to PVA or whatever admixture might not work for the end plates, but the neutral ones? An idea for people to try, anyway.
very cool! can't wait to see what you're going to do with it!
I thought run a small engine
Robert Murray-Smith why not see how much the output improves mileage or fuel consumption numbers in a road car?
Membership is only 5 bucks a month I would have joined a lot sooner if I knew it was so cheap
Very glad I joined!!!!
lol - cheers mate and thanks for helping
thanks robert mate...you really do have the best school in the world...
cheers mate
Well Hell that things producing more then Quite Well I would say. And the plates are only like 4-5cm2 ? That little thing would drive a small jewelers torch I bet.
I think it would mate - I have a couple more experiments I want to do but we are nearly at making a large one
That's an awesome amount of gas for such a tiny cell.
it is cool lol
Robert Murray-Smith is that gas pure hydrogen though? What about oxygen and in this case I imagine nitrogen and carbon oxides that form during electrolysis?
@@ADHDgonewild7 It should be stoichiometric hydrogen and oxygen, steam, and whatever atmospheric gasses were dissolve in the feedstock water.
I don't think the process used evolves carbon oxides in significant amounts, or I imagine we would see a great deal more steam owing to the exothermic nature of 2C + 2O -> 2CO etc. I could be wrong through.
Atlas WalkedAway is the urea what we are breaking apart to get the hydrogen? I was thinking that was where nitrogen and CO2 would come in
@@ADHDgonewild7 Water is H2O. The electrolysis breaks the hydrogen/oxygen bond releasing the hydrogen and oxygen from the water, also called Brown's Gas or HHO.
It would be interesting to see how much adding magnets increases the yield.
I wholeheartedly second Robs recommendation. Join join join in droves
I agree! This channel is SO worth the tiny cost. Although there is a downside... the list of projects I want to do now has grown to an enormous length.
lol - oops my bad lol
awesome - cheers mate and I really appreciate the help and support
Agreed, but does anybody have the schematics and construction details of this cell. I'm not able to find it in the membership section. I need precise details cause I want to prepare a Scientific Report on it. Please help in any possible way.
Another cool project! As always thanks for the education.
Glad you enjoyed it!
small hint though ...
you use the "dry cell" as an ordenary cell ...
normally the fluid container in this setup gets both in and outlet and sits above the cell
a normal cell has to be refilled above the plate level but because of the disighn, the dry cell (dry on the outside) always has maximum plate coverage with electrolite since the containeris above.
also the output improves since the electrolite is constantely pumped through so the plates keep free of bubbles faster so current is more efficient per cm2.
just put a tight lid on the electrolite container with a tube sticking out and feed that to the bubbler.
once you do a liter per minute per watt calculation you'll see why ;)
Facsinated by your videos. I have a project i ant to apply these to but having issues joining. Hope resolves these issues soon.
That chuckle was more combustive than the H2 gas!
Thanks! Great video, as usual!
cheers mate
To break down one urea molecule and release the two molecules of hydrogen gas they applied 0.37 V across the cell. This is much lower than the 1.23 V needed to do the same to water.
Carbon dioxide is generated during the reaction of urea, but it is not released as a gas and instead reacts with the potassium hydroxide in the electrolyte to form potassium carbonate.
that's partially true mate - in practice the applied voltage is 0.447 with a nickel catalyst - the electro-oxidation of urea is fairly complex particularly with catalysts and dependent on pH
The HHO production rate is phenomenal now!
cheers mate - we have a few things to do yet though
Use 988 parts of distilled water 2 parts of caustic soda. (Sodium hydroxide)
Have 1.2 millimeters between the plates.
There should be 3 volts between each plate.
Focus on how much gas you produce compared to amps.
Amps alone, says nothing.
It may disappear in heat.
Hello Mr. Murray... can u send me link to extras. I love your work. Thank you for the guidance 🙏
That is awesome, more than can be immagined
Nice hho production maybe you could try PWM with a bifilar coil with opposite connection you can use a mains suppression choke for this
nice idea mate - have you tried it?
@@ThinkingandTinkering Hi Robert
Yes I have tried it and it works well
No electrolyte just water and two tubes , one inside the other with one mm spacing and together with the bifilar coil you create a "tank" circuit
With it's own resonance
The voltage went from 12 volt DC to 80 AC
Bought a hho sensor for Arduino but still have to do the measurement
Happy Hydrogen day.. What do hydrogen's atomic weight and October 8 have in common? Both share numerical digits-1.008 for the atomic weight of element number one in the periodic table, and 10/08 for the date. This is why October 8, chosen as Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day, marks a symbolic opportunity every year to celebrate hydrogen and to talk about the role it can play as we transition to a cleaner and more equitable energy future.
Got some questions and ideas 💡,
The reason for any kind of electrolyte is just to make the water conductive, and that's it?...
So can doing this replace using electrolyte...
The two opposing surface areas where the water breaks down, Coat them with a super Hydrophilic coating, creating the Exclusion Zone (EZ Water), it becomes evenly negatively charged, and the positive charges pushed out are the strongest against the negatively structured layer and get weaker the further away up to where its just neutral water,. Put them close enough to where the positive layer from each surface overlap, but not to close to where the EZ layers become one. Now you have a conductive path of water between your electrodes!
Will that replace using electrolyte?????
If so, and even if not I have an ultimate design for a cell combining different technologies in a very unique way. Its more than im willing to type out at the moment.
But could we have an audio chat about it, like on Skype etc?
The cool thing about urea from where I sit is it’s generally available as DEF wherever diesel fuel is sold, so you won’t have to mix up new electrolyte solution if you’re running low on feedstock for the electrolyzer. Right?
Marvelous Rob. I've been looking at some Hydrogen fuel cells to link up this project. Hydrogen fuel cells are very expensive to make and if you go to the online Fuel Cell Store the prices are astronomical. Some use platinum as a catalyst but even so way too expensive. I'm thinking that maybe their is a way to reduce the price and this channel is just the place.
I am a member, but, in this video, you didn't mention where to find the graphine cell plans.
Seems to be producing pretty well, for a quick ballpark figure of production volume / time, run your output into an upturned water-filled test tube, time how long it takes to fill. But you know that :)
Although your cell is a pretty big advance in terms of production simplicity and cost, I can't see this particular setup being overly useful for urea electrolysis, - although you're getting more H2 than you would with a "classic" dry cell, the hydrogen is mixed with nitrogen rather than being a directly usable 2H2 + O2 feed.
i have a plan about that mate lol
Fantastic Robert!!!
cheers mate
That was a lot of Hydrogen.
This is very interesting.
Adding some filter caps after the full bridge rectifier (1000µF per A) to get stable 12V and compare the results please.
cheers mate - will do
How did you come up with 14% urea as being the ideal value? Were you to burn the hydrogen produced, would you have more (heat) power output than electrical input?
Adding turns on the transformer, is this code for smash it with a hammer!
lol
Where is the extras for the details on the hydrogen generators?
Very interesting ,12 v ,so for only 2 electrodes?how many amps per liter of hydrigen gas?
I wonder what happen when you electrolyse urea
If it releases hydrogen and nitrogen where does the carbon go ?
God no, I don't want to build one. I've got tomatoes, melons, strawberries, blueberries and figs to tend to. But I'm a techie by day and I'm having a grand ole time watching you suffer thru the pains of making it work in front of me. It's almost like I'm doing it myself! lmao Have a grand day Sir Robert.
I should add..... Man that was a lotta gas bubbling there from that little beast!
lol - i understand that amte - and yes it was - cheers
Nice work!
What is your LPM output of this cell? what is the total watt input?
how much more efficient was the output with the introduction of Urea? This is Urea plus KOH yes? what about pure Urea/Urine?
Came here to ask this!!
I like this method of generating HHO. HHO is facinating stuff and I no longer believe the conspiracy theories as to why we all are not just using this for our heating and electrical power needs and desires. My own experiences with HHO suggest its reaction speed when imploded is far to fast to be practical on a larger than novelty application. In a nutshell its like trying to control a stallion with a wet noodle. when you try and do anything useful with it on a simple man's budget. I can personally attest to what a hole through a ceiling looks like when this HHO implodes. I'm sure It can be useful if you have the $jack to tame it. In all fairness before you call me a troll try to make HHO "useful" yourself without spending a small fortune. I spent the time and meager funds in my attempts. I left the hole in my ceiling as a reminder of how my desire to save money can cost more than installing a simple wood burning stove. I throw the gauntlet down for Mr. Murray-Smith to prove me wrong. Please show me the path to making this stuff useful sir.
oh no mate I agree - it is hard stuff to tame - my though was along the lines of separation and on demand volume control rather than bulk production and storage - but I am a step by step kind of guy and I hate spending money lol
First I am editing my last post to say maybe ammonium chloride may be a better electrolyte. Second I had a silly notion of using litro cells that contain tritium and a phosphor. If they are radioactive enough can some of the radioactivity be used in a solution of ammonium chloride and filled with powered graphite with the litro cells providing the source for radiolysis.
He's right! Join the member's cannel. Its very informative and quite worth it :)
Thanks for that mate
Instead of the stainless steel can we use titanium I made 60 titanium washers quarter inch thick drilled them and not sure what somebody let me know if I could use those in there and it will cost a problem thank you
Hi Robert, I very much like this hydrogen series.
I was wondering if after youve finished with it, you'd look into hydrogen storage means?
If not, then its ok. I'm happy with what I am seeing here.
i am planning on looking at it sometime mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering The ultimate would be if you could do a diy version of something like a fischer tropsch reaction to make your own liquid hydrocarbon fuels from woodgas or oxyhydrogen and naturally sourced carbon. Evidently synthetic fuels are being made in abundance, but not entirely surprising that there is not too much talk about it.
You also could use high temperature gasket maker instead of the rubber cut outs just let it dry on the ground by foil overnight before sandwiching
Graphite
that's a nice suggestion mate - I like that for a finished cell - the problem here with those kind of gaskets is they are not so good when you pull them apart a few time and this is an experimental cells - so it gets rebuilt a lot - I autopsy the plates and redesign the plates and rebuild often so remaking gaskets would quickly become a pain - with over sized gaskets from rubber I can experiment a lot and quickly
Consider creating a 3-D printed mold so that you could poor liquid latex into to make gaskets quickly. Or build a cookie cutter punch to hammer out gaskets quick. Screen printing the gasket maker may work for production...
good attempt, you got urea into mix
The output voltage of the transformer varies based on the load.
thank you
Great work thanks for sharing.
Thank you! Cheers!
Great stuff!! I know I’m late to the party, but have ever thought about making a graphitic carbon hydrogen capacitor or a PEM fuel cell?
Am impressed with your progress of the cell. I remember my science teacher saying that the best voltage for electrolysis was 18 volts. Have you found out that this is correct ?? Or does 12 volts really do the trick ??? Keep on making great videos Bob. Thanks VF
it depends on what you are electrolysing mate - water takes at least 1.23 volts urea is 0.47 volts. There is resistance in the cell so the applied voltage is always going to be higher but not too much - if the cell gets hot then all you are really doing is boiling the water and producing steam - so like so many things it's a balance - the reason we are applying 12 volts is we have 6 cells in each unit so the average voltage per cell is 2 volts even though the unit takes 12 volts - hope this helps
Great Vid , congratulations ! 👍👍👍 , wana give you some mention to your work . If you change the cell design than its possible to separate the gas in H and O . Use a old cooling compressor from a fridge to storage the gas
Thanks for the tip!
Is this outputting hydrogen or browns gas?
Just found your channel but have been loving it mate wish you were my science teacher in school. Would be cool to see you hook up the hho to the wind turbine or solar.
cheers mate - there are so many things to do and only so much time - lol
Piston engines running HHO or anything really no one asked but if you are going to make one go horizontal with the combustion and expansion chamber use a rack and pinion system as the kinetic energy converter and then at the end of the power stroke at the far side you have another combustion chamber that then drives the piston back with the rack disengaged or engaging a different pinion probably a second drive shaft pinon with gearing to keep everything moving in the same direction for the drive shaft now with a 4 chamber system working the one rack and pinion converter you can have opposite sides firing at the same time so that the top and bottom of one pion are being driven.
I have been looking at small engines as that is in my mind mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Wonderful so what do you think of the idea?
@@ThinkingandTinkering Another idea is essentially a water wheel driven by explosions from symmetrically placed angled side chambers sequentially fired around a circular tube track the paddles are piston heads and also sweep out the exhaust through valved ports, speed of the engine is controlled by how much HHO is let in at a time and the timing of ignitions.
The tube would have a thin slot on the inner edge for the piston wheel disk and the disk would have a ridge and wiping seal for containment.
Hi Rob,
I came across your cell because i want to build a safe HHO generator for hydrogen therapy. I am concerned about the chromium from the stainless steel eletrodes in traditional designs. Do you know if the urea could be harmfull in any way? I would use 2-3 gas washing stages afterwards so any possible Urea/NaOH residues should be washed out by then. Am i wrong?
Urea is very common in the body. It is in sweat.
You must be very careful with hydrogen Some say it is very explosive, when I was working on my car at Age 17 a spark caused by the wrench hitting a wire ignited the battery as I was taking it out of my car it blew up right in my face big bright white flash and I was burned slightly by the acid
can you setup a way to pay a year ahead and not have the recurring monthly payment?
it's run by youtube mate, not me - perhaps suggest it to them...
Yes was looking forward to this ❤️👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 brilliant
awesome mate
(Psssst: Check my comment on yesterday's Ceramic Supercapacitor video).
When you substitute an Aluminum Anode for the Power Supply - so that the Cell produces DC Current while making Hydrogen instead of consuming it - note that Sodium Hydroxide will function as a true catalyst, fully regenerating as it operates, while Potassium Hydroxide will not.
Also: Just as you use that little electric motor to demonstrate the useful power being output by your batteries and supercapacitors, you might consider an RC Model Aircraft Engine that will run on Hydrogen or HHO to demonstrate the useful fuel being output by your electrolyzers and [reverse] fuel cells.
I can't keep up with the comments anymore mate - I just get too many - sorry about that - I do try and check out the most recent but these days even a day or so gets too much - I don't agree with the aluminium anode idea but I do agree with the NaOH and small engine idea - the problem is - have you seen the price of those things! If I had a couple of hundred dollars to spend then no worries - but I run this thing on a shoestring
@@ThinkingandTinkering Yes, but there's a link I put there you will find useful. I know the RC motors are expensive, but when I was looking to do just that, I saw a number of used ones on eBay very cheap (
If the Output is H2,N2 and Co2 it could be use as shielding gas for welding , anyone tryed that yet?
Urea generate hydrogen oxygen and carbondioxide right sir?
For fun, drop some washing-up liquid in the bubbler and lit them for a bang.
lol - for sure
Wow awesomeness👍
A couple of drops of washing up liquid in the beaker + barbecue lighter!!! Can be addictive! Was the urea responsibly sourced or did it come from a sweat shop?!?! Lol;) the Joe cell looks interesting along with Stanley Myers process?
it was probably sweatshop as I bought it from a supply house
This is great! But the problem is that it requires energy to create hydrogen. So it makes sence to use this system as a battery for energy generated from wind or sun. But then comes the problem with storage of hydrogen. How do you compress hydrogen in a safe and smart way? And how can you the produce energy from that stored hydrogen? Fuel cell ? Stirling engine? There are some videos on youtube - but hope to se your take on it? Kind Regards :) and thank you for the channel!
it requires energy to create any fuel mate - the hydrogen generated from urea electrolysis is net positive for energy. That's not because you are magically creating energy it is only because the bond energy in urea is lower than the bond energy in water - so it takes less energy to split urea than you get when you burn the hydrogen into water
Will you eventually make a torch out of it?
yes
Hello Mr. Rob. Is this regular Urea or it is some special or purified? Thank you.
I thought Hydroxide and Urea would generate ammonia when heated, isn't that how you make an ammonia generator in the lab?
Lovely. Congrats! Rob, what's produced at the anode during urea electrolysis? I'm guessing nitrogen gas and carbonate?
spot on mate
That's fascinating. I could see that being a very useful process for creating nitrogen at will. I'll look up the process for that. Thanks for pointing out the chemistry 👍!
The "Botte" paper from a few videos back has a clear writeup on the urea chemistry. Well worth the time.
Can you run a small petrol motor with the gas
yeah probably mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering that would be a cool video.maybe a small Strimmer engine connected to a generator .loop the power back to create more gas
@@craigmccarthy9484 something along those lines mate
It would run, but it won't run well or for very long. HHO gas burns extremely hot and fast, and all engines rely on a bit of extra petrol to keep the fuel/air mix rich so that the engine parts don't get too hot.
HHO burns very fast like I said, so it's very possible for it to ignite and go past the valves before they fully close.. that could lead to a very big bang indeed
Wouldn't ammonia gas be generated as well by using urea?
What is the power consumption volts/amps?
Hho or pure hydrogen sir?
I wonder how the graphene foil would do both in performance and endurance using filtered seawater or salted water instead of an urea solution
give it a go
Is there a graphite ink that I can paint onto a more ridged material? I know the gap of the cells play a big part so keeping them even would be a advantage
you could try that for sure mate - though I suspect you would have to formulate your own ink and you do need through plate conductivity
Hi Rob,
In your first urea hydrolysis video you stated that you used a 33% urea solution. In this video you’ve changed the solution to a 14% urea 1% KOH. Why the change? Cheers🍻
I am playing with concentration - I don't show everything I do mate as it would be a lot of videos with not much happening lol
This is the first I've heard of using urea for electrolyte. Did this come from Google Scholar or where can I find out more?
loads of papers mate - google scholar is a good place to start
Great boss
cheers mate
Where I can find graphite plate please ?
ebay
I want to see that graphine stack as high as those bolts and see what gas output there is then.
build one then
Are you making pure H2 or H2 and O2? That's an explosive mixture if you keep them mixed..
it's a mix of H, HHO and N2 - but yeah it's explosive - why do you think I don't run it for that long with out ventilation lol
What was you dry weight of the cell its self
What would scotchbriting the grapfoil plates do?
i don't think so mate - but i am just guessing
Consider powering the cell with solar panels and super capacitors
for sure
well if you add KOH to urea ya'll end up with solution of K2CO3 and ammonia, you're basically hydrolyzing the urea, as urea solutions arent that electrically conductive
ok
I would like to do this having trouble finding the. Correct hdpe. Can you post a link where you get it.
mate - I must have been thinking about you - check out the video I am. just posting
That was great sir 👍👍
What was that membership u were saying..?
there are some of my videos that are only available to members. there is a join button on the home page - though i am told that it doesn't appear on some browsers - i'm sure that youtube is working on that
Urea and potassium hydroxide? So what you're saying is that if I pee onto wood ash...
Will Adblue work in this setup? (32,5% urea +water) Cheap, easy to get. Awesome channel 👍 Keep it up 😊👌
should do fine mate - but urea is a few bucks per sack
love videos sir A+
cheers mate
Where does the O2 and OH come out? Is there a second gas port on the back?
no mate it comes out mixed there is no effort at separation right now
So this current design is for immediately combusting the HHO gas, not gas storage. That's perfectly fair.
Just for my personal understanding, to separate the gasses, it would be a matter of placing a exhaust hose on the cathode side and another on the anode side and adding a gas barrier between the two. Is that roughly correct?
I thought you said you only wanted 2 volts?
Excelent .
cheers mate
I really don't know how to store hho. Are you going to cover storage in a later video?
justthinkalittle very very carefully in fact probably not a good idea. Separate the hydrogen for safer start
my thought is to bypass the storage problem by making the volume production higher and going for on demand generation mate
Whatever you do, don't drink from that container ever again
lol
do you know how much power it draws at the wall?
nope
Sir, can this gas used as gasoline in scooter?
Very cool
cheers mate