1256 Urea Electrolysis For Hydrogen Production
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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I really like this setup! Creative use of household items and the gases are collected right at the electrode. Brilliant!
Neat stuff! Thanks for the shoutout. I did not know about urea electrolysis. I'll have to play with that. I like that you get a pure nitrogen output as well. I don't know many other simple ways to make inert gasses chemically.
to me, this is a legitamate means of extraction and refining LN2 when in space. A source of N2 for Atmospheric conditions, and a source of H2 for the Sabetair and fuel reforming reactions.
When you say "play with that", you mean you will start saving your urine?
Haha that's what I asked too.
I wonder what submarine designers could do with this? Refillable compressed nitrogen stores for everything they currently use compressed air, but with an added benefit of firefighting usefulness? Compressed hydrogen stored outside the hull for auxiliary power, (and adding to ballast tank blows)?
Heres a good one, pump air through a high voltage electrode at around 4kv, and bubble it through water and you get Nitric Acid.
For storage, get Luke to inhale enough then you can float him around the workshop. Good build.
The ultimate in motoring sustainability- we'll be able to re-fuel by peeing in our tanks. Sounds good to me.
@grace pierce
The point was,using the idea in urine (similar word even)
Urea
*ROBERT:* Thank you for finally tackling the Urea Hydrogen issue! If you'll recall, I bugged you for months to do so, a couple years back. Now, please take it to the next level, by doing it with net DC power OUT rather than feeding power IN -- by substituting *ALUMINUM* (as in crushed waste Beverage Cans) for your Stainless Steel Anode. By switching to NaOH over KOH, you will find that the caustic becomes a true Catalyst, replenishing continuously during the reaction. [When the caustic is sufficiently concentrated to expedite the reaction, the polymer can coatings dissolve away in it with no problem.] It will generate Hydrogen, DC Current and Substantial Heat Energy, as long as there is Aluminum for it to react. The practical issue with making this commercially useful is figuring out a mechanics by which additional crushed cans can be continuously added to the system, without opening the gas evolution chamber to the atmosphere. Capturing the Hydrogen and the DC is pretty straightforward, and a heat exchange loop (or Thermoelectric Chips) to collect the Heat energy can be easily sorted out. But Free Hydrogen & DC Current from waste Soda & Beer cans is pretty nifty. The Energy embodied in the cans' Aluminum is worth far more than the metal itself is, as a recyclable. 205 Watt Hours per 355ML Can. Have at it!
Instead of crushing the cans, could you cut off the top and bottom, slit it to make a single layer sheet, then run these through a good paper shredder?
Maybe you could incorporate such a spreading device into your design and have that be the way you add the aluminum? How often would the device need more aluminum? Is this an hourly thing? Once a week or a month?
@@colleenforrest7936 It depends how much power you want it to produce. Crushing them vertically can yield a fairly uniform 'disc' shaped "puck" that is fairly compact. The flat sheets obtainable from the cylinder sides would be easy to use in themselves, but cutting the ends off reliably to do so is a challenge, and then you have the leftover ends, which are the most reactive parts, since they are uncoated with label paint.
This sounds very interesting. Have you put it to the test or is it theoretical ?
@@herenow2895 Yes, I have, and the Aluminum releases a lot of energy (as many other Aluminum Battery/Fuel Cell projects have demonstrated). Using *waste* Aluminum, and Pairing it with Urine optimizes it. I've done experiments, but am not set up to quantify the Power, Hydrogen and Heat outputs, the way that an experienced Chemist like Robert is. To see him get his little motor running, *while* making Hydrogen off it, even just measuring the Temperature (without even trying to do anything with the thermal energy) would be dramatic. Wherever people are emptying beverage cans, they are producing Urine, so such a system could definitely find applications. In my testing, the Heat and Hydrogen were both impressive; but RMS would get a good handle on the Current you could extract from it as well. Each Aluminum atom releases *Three* Electrons as it Oxidizes.
Awesome! 👏
I always remember the paper you pointed out on surrounding the anode with a magnetic field to improve the efficiency
like protecting impellers from cavitation damage
Thank you Robert for making this video on using urea electrolysis. You made my day. The more efficient method of hydrogen production the more pressure is put on the "POWERS AT BE" to shut there pie hole. This keep's pressure on the fossil fuel industry with their lie's and miss information from sleeping at nights. What a wonderful world you have created for us all to enjoy on RUclips. Keep up the great work too.
You hit the nail on the head! It’s just like the diamond market, artificially priced because there’s basically only one buyer( De beers )
They have been saying it’s fossil fuels for at least the last 100 years and the truth is slowly coming out! Coal is constantly being formed in the earth’s mantle, I believe it’s only a matter of time before the same is “discovered” about oil and gasses.
Ok no more reliance on fossil fuel.
You go first, set the example.
Wash clothes in the creek, eat raw food, use nothing made of plastic.
Uh-huh. Sure you will.
Speaking of pie-holes.
Chemically storing hydrogen is what facinates me after seeing an interveiw of Bob Lazar years ago storing it in a vessal in the back of a car. I think it was solid state and extremely safe !
A lot of people temporarily store the hydrogen in Mylar balloons.
You could use big inner tubes as well.
But they do actually make a thick mil bladder in methane production in other countries that would work too.
Solid state is good but why not compress it in to a butane cylinder or failing that an lpg tank.????
@@patomahony9747 safety is my understanding, solid state is basically inert and cant explode, though Ive not understood why we can make propane and natural gas vehicles but not hydrogen storage
@@seekerscovereal worked in a facility that had a hydrogen fuelled furnace. Can’t rem if it was in cylinders or in a large tank. From what I can remember static electricity was an issue as was temperature .
Below 800c it is in furnace applications highly explosive if injected in large quantities. Think this was a sudden rise to a concentration of around 30%.
Reason it is used in coating furnace operations is it’s clean burning properties.
Unlike other gasses that have additives to give them a smell in case of a leak. This is apparently not possible with hydrogen.
All in all if handled correctly just as safe as other fuels ie lng or petroleum products just has different requirements
Aha!! Thank you so much for This! ~Time to get Hubby out, ~his penchant for blowing himself up,
in a variety of increasingly painful and convoluted ways, means that this particular set - up,,
has his name stamped all over it!Lol!
🙂Andrea, Jasper and
George the Pigeon. XxX
Fascinating, I would love you to show us how to DIY some electrocatalysts.
That is exactly what I want to see.
@@Mangomesh IIRC iron chloride was one, but you have to carefully control voltage to prevent chlorine offgassing.
You can make iron chloride with steel wool and muriatic acid from the pool supply section.
Years ago I watched a guy with corvette store hydrogen in tanks for removing sulfur gas from well water. They contain beads of some kind of polymer that absorbed gas at ambient temperatures. When warmed the beads release the gas. Its less explosive while contained in the beads.
I believe that was Bob Lazar, actually
@ yes it was Bob and the car was fake. He did it for press at the time.
@@Hydrogen4Health really it was fake? Was his particle accelerator also fake?
He said it was some type of hydride, maybe lithium? If I remember correctly?
@@theyoutubeguy1545 I was trying to remember as well I can't remember what type he said it was. I'm fairly certain it was not lithium though if my memory serves.
I can't tell you how much I enjoy watching your videos, I was wondering what other gas came out besides hydrogen from urea thank you for letting me know it is nitrogen. If you use carbon fiber instead of stainless steel you won't have the problem of the breakdown. I had a friend that used to be in armed service and he explained to me how they used to use compression and vacuum to separate the water and get hydrogen and nitrogen out of it somewhere but they exhaust the hydrogen and use the nitrogen in the tires for the plans.
RMS, this is very interesting. I have watched Nighthawk's videos and you should build the gas accumulator he did in another video.
Cool. I was thinking the steel wool/scourer inside the whisk might make a good super capacitor electrode. I would mix activated charcoal powder with some binder and squeeze it into the steel wool. I'd use an alkaline electrolyte. I'll let you know how it goes.
I like the thinking there mate - I am going to give that a go myself - nice one cheers
There's quite a few videos on RUclips about hydrogen production, there's not many on how to generate electricity from hydrogen - with the DIYer in mind - expensive catalysts and unobtainium equipment being the major obstacles.
Dupont-made Proton Exchange Membrane is really the only part that is relatively expensive I have found. Have been passively looking for a more DIY friendly PEM material, haven't found much yet
I haven’t had a crack at them yet, but I think the theory is take polystyrene, grate it up very fine, mix it in sulfuric acid at about 80 degrees until it melts and turns to goop, then squish it flat in a press and let it set. Thinner is better…
I actually think the catalysts are the hard part though. They make such a big difference (eg platinum and similar metals). Like orders of magnitude more efficient, not just a few %.
@@alexbuchanan2605 yes,I agree about catalysts, one way to reduce the need for expensive catalysts is to use heat, here's hoping Rob does a video on solid oxide or direct carbon fuel cells.
I love nighthawklnlight, been watching his videos for years. I would build one of these and a gasometer from nighthawklnlights channel but i get yelled at every time i make something go boom boom.
Very impressive build! In a paper I saw yesterday they also included a Nickel catalyst
Graphitized floral open cell foam would work better IMO.
This video could piss off someone
Yay, another use for diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) it has high urea content (around 1/3 urea; 2/3 distilled water) and smells way better than urine.
Perhaps a better _solution_ for classroom demos
@@technosaurus3805 🙂💞👍
Awesome set up! Really like that simple hydrogen set up!
it's the Future I think if people want to be self sufficient and off grid..
Urine is certainly cheap and available in a pinch. But its contaminated with sodium chloride which is conductive in water but will give off a bleachy smell of chlorine. One might prefer to use urea fertilizer with potassium hydroxide for the best conductivity at these low voltages.
Hi Rob, can you explain why KOH is still required? Would the urea not act as an electrolyte? Cheers
Urea is not an electrolyte, it is a neutral molecule.
If you were using your own piss it would have salts in it as well as the urea and that would work but straight urea is neutral as Nicola Toma stated.
@Rik rik Try adding glycol as a defoamer.
Excellent video!!
Now that’s what I call a set up! I thought you might be resourceful. Brilliant great stuff. Ammonia from urea can make quite a bang if not treated correctly, so well done on the safety brief! I would test my own p for fun. though this could tuning into an accident waiting to happen. I’m going to leave it out, I’m interested just not interested in a accident.
Don't wait too long or you might have an accident. It _Depends_
@@technosaurus3805 I if was 70 maybe? a desperate dash would be in order. Sadly no! I’d love to show people the safety vids of these things exploding. In larger quantities whole cites suffered catastrophic damage. Due to the blast wave. fertiliser explosions being a prime example of this. When atomised uncontrollably it tends to form sugars/ hydrocarbons once mixed with air. And if I recall if it’s alight when this happens the sugar can undergo further decomposition and the secondary reaction will occur resulting in secondary explosions. My neighbour won’t be pleased. If I flatten the road and surrounding houses. Ive known someone who got into trouble for boiling bleach. I heard the explosion as I was walking by one day in my youth. All because someone got themselves a cook book. And tried a recipe! If I recall they even made a batch of naplam. So no don’t want to mess with that stuff. Great to see rob try it under controlled conditions but not for me.
I also loved that vid of Nighthawkinlight
When I was a teenager, I blew-out the windows of my bedroom electrolizing water. I was using Selenium rectifiers and when they overloaded, they shorted-out and the flash set-off the Hydrogen.
For storage i was thinking a stainless steel water bottle filled with graphitic carbon nitride and a diesel glow plug or attached to an exhaust on a generator to release the hydrogen!
Still waiting to see how the dry cell performs with urea. And a hydrogen welding demo would be cool.
In respect to storage in graphitic carbon nitride…. Would the nitrogen also store in it if the gases were together or what would happen in this case?
Great video and nice to see Nighthawk getting a shout out.
I think it would be wonderful to use a hydrogen generator like this to power a steam engine boiler to run a generator
Hydrogen to steam to Electricity
Thank you for the great info
Have a great day brother
Newer doesn't always been better
Older doesn't have to mean obsolete
Just saying
@Mike Tanner
Thank you So much!!
I feel a Lot happier with my age now, I had certainly been feeling obsolete!
I hope you have a wonderful week!! 🙂Andrea, Jasper and
George the Pigeon. 🙂XxX
You could run a petrol generator directly with this.
@@AndreaDingbatt wisdom comes with age given by god the elders should be a prize to have
I was hoping you would stick a magnet on the whisk to increase the efficiency more. It would of been interesting if it made a difference or not.
Thanks for this Robert. Been away for a while, nice to return for such a interesting subject, power from pee.
How many whisks would I need in my onion septic tank to power my home I wonder?
This also produces nitrates instead as another product if you add a pem coating on the cathode
Hydrogen heat to sand could be a storage solution. Some if it could go to a stream engine to batteries. It would keep it from being in tanks. Hydrogen on demand for cooking.
Yay, finally a topic I'm not coming to actively learn more about; just here for the good humor. =)
Love those voltage specs of .3 volts. What power consumption based on your setup? Update: 5:53 answered it.
Can we use an enameled cast iron instead of brittle glass? How hot does it get?
You can store hho gas safely at 10-15 by volume with town gas or butane lpg and methane . The mixture together negates the chance of hho explosion as the ratio of oxygen to fuel is substantially reduced. Apparently there is some regions already doing this from using solar panels for electrolysis! I think its perfect !
youtube blanking my comments again, half of my comments get deleted.
i had previously included a link and abstact for
"Excitation of H2O at the plasma/water interface by UV irradiation for the elevation of ammonia production"
from journal: green chemistry
also stan meyer claimed that radio frequencies were used to "help crack" h20 for his water-powered car. would be great if you were able to recreate or give your expert analysis on his water-powered car from the 80's 90's. its a very controversial subject so i can understand if thats a problem
anyway best regards and keep up the good works
Yeah, I find you have to include any links in the original post, or it creates an error when you add it later in edit mode! I use a separate document editor to copy and paste an links in with my xomment!
@@themeek351 nice, noted and thanks
love it bob
Rob try passing the hydrogen through a catalytic convertor. Will generate heat, as it heats up it becomes more efficient and even less gas is required. Be sure to add a flashback arrestor + bubbler.
Since it heats up. Couldn't you use the aluminum and brass rod in water generator to power the unit in the same container? Maybe add a joule thief to increase the voltage to run the two scouring pads.
so much respect
you could also bubble the nitrogen through some water and get a week nitric acid.
Hey robert. I think i guessed someone's invention i saw, but didnt see on tv about 10 years ago. The inventor opened the trunk to see a HHO gen and fuel tank system. You couldn't see inside, but i somehow think he was just using neoprene to store HHO. Your thoughts? Micro cell fuel storage under vacuum.
For the graphite foil, which thickness are you using? I've looked all around, even on the product page in the links, but can't seem to find what thickness is being used here. Also, thank you for all the knowledge you share. :-)
Ah so it does need something to make it more conductive . I just thought it maybe was from using garden grade urea and of course it doesn’t produce as much bubbles as no oxygen is forming and they are much bigger than hydrogen . Can acids or ethanol also be used Rob?
7:26 Put the electrodes closer together and it will produce more gas.
I wonder what submarine designers could do with this? Refillable compressed nitrogen stores for everything they currently use compressed air, but with an added benefit of firefighting usefulness? Compressed hydrogen stored outside the hull for auxiliary power, (and adding to ballast tank blows)?
I made one and it got pretty hot.
Maybe a fish tank would be good.
I'm curious adding magnets would increase it by how much?
I made a Fe Cu battery using urine as the electrolyte. It produces the calculated 0.70v. string a few cells together and you can make a battery that will power a red LED for a few hours. it's rechargeable too.
Reminds me *so* much of Julius Sumner Miller. (RIP)
suggest you do a comparison of urea compared to seawater which produces the best volume of hydrogen and the least corrosion
I assume the KOH reacts with the carbon dioxide generated, to produce potassium carbonate.
It's not just about V.
it's much more about Htz....
Edit:
And molecular bonds.
*Remembering that the mass-energy equivalence equation can be reinterpreted using the preceding frequency-energy equivalence equation. Couple that with a sound understanding of the relevant atomic/molecular harmonic scales for the application. (just like a microwave uses such understanding to select its materials, cavity configuration, electrodynamics and HARMONICS required to target the resonant frequency of a water molecule (which is relatively simple, being a simple dipole molecule) to induce an electric charge to excite the molecule.
"But that's not the same" you say?
Horse for courses...
All I'm saying is the public understanding of the current electrolysis method is a very crude and inefficient method. In the vicinity of
Could this be used on Pure/concentrated pee? My suspicion is yes which begs the question, which would generate more Hydrogen?
What can you used the Nitrogen gas for? Can you think of anything useful? What waste products do you have left in the water? Thanks
Research into electrolysis using coordinative chemistry like Ruthenium and Osmium Bipy 'salts' has been investigated decades ago... Sometimes we need to determine what it is we are trying to achieve, thinking we are achieving and actually achieving in the dissociation of water.
If you could get it to 10,000psi and refrigerate it, you could fuel a fuel cell vehicle. How much would that setup cost to build and run? Is that too high a pressure to muck about with at home?
Brilliant. So... what happens if you put a dedicated pee funnel into your bucket? like, could you just whiz into this thing to keep your urea levels up? Would just straight pee work?
That seems like it would save a lot of water on flushes while producing hydrogen if it would- though I guess, if it's not electrolyzing the water as well, you'd get an overflow issue, though I suppose you could rig an overflow outlet to your drain.
You really are taking the piss now Rob. Wee're onto you ;).
lol
Hi Robert!
Very clever setup I think!👍 I was just wondering, what about the carbon content of the urea? What does remain in the electrolyte?
Thanks for another awesome video! It is very intriguing how much more efficient utilizing Urea is versus water. Are there even more efficient liquids than Urea?
Piss?
Is it easier to perform electrolysis upon water you are currently pulling a vacuum?
Great video, thank you. I was kind of hoping that you were going to store up some H2 and then light it but i can do that bit (eyebrows usually grow back OK).
I'd just like to know where can I buy the urea from?
Garden shop
@@Buzzhumma Thanks. I've been meaning to pick up a few fruit trees, so this would be a perfect time to pick up some urea.
Or you could just piss in a bucket....
Fire extinguisher shops give the extinguishers away if you take it all. 5he contents are monoammonium phosphate virtually free energy.
Do u think it would be as easy as sticking a couple of electrodes on wastewater tanks, or is there any risk of producing different gases depending on the chemicals in the solution?
And how to separate each part of the waste water to use this process is another tricky part.
if it produce N2 then you can do away with separation and get more rapid electrolysis by using those simple HHO generators but they will be called HHN generator xd
so that means safer hydrogen storage and faster production but at expenses of less dense energy
Love your channel, but at 5.4 you say to run this electrolyser at 1.4 volts to ensure that the water is not electrolysed ? Did you mean to say to run at 0.4 volts so as to keep under 1.25 volts to prevent water electrolysis, or am I missing something ? a few brain cells perhaps.
Robert. When you say urea, are you onabout human wee or adblue? Is it simple as urinating in a bottle and adding koh? 😊
Given that urine contains urea and that sewage works deal with vast amounts of urine daily, is there a practical method to utilise this resourse with renewable electricity for efficient hydrogen production? To coin a phrase we could produce 'Yellow Hydrogen'
What’s the effect from adding potassium hydroxide?
How about a video on creating ammonia from electrolysis of water with zinc and lithium electrodes?
Can graphene be used to conduct heat away from the container and power a TEG?
Exhaust gas condensate makes an efficient electrolyte
Best one inna while..thanks
cheers mate
What do you think is possible to turn human solid waste into energy and can urine be used as a source of phosphorus and other essential elements?
I mean both is renewable and can be planned or better it comes in a plantable amount daily
Great! But what about the remaining cabonyl-group (... >C=O ...) from the urea? Does ist form CO2, formaldehyde or something else?
Hi Mate, What would happen if one uses Hydrogen peroxide as the water in electrolyte? Will it make HHOO?
So are you saying you could just use urine in this instead of flushing it away?
I'm a bit miffed about two things. This method, though requiring less power, requires a constant supply of urea. 1) Is the POH consumed in the process and 2) wouldn't it be cheaper just to use water or are there other issues? Thank you for these videos, I think they are great.
And could be scaled up to waste treatment facilities requiring less energy than fresh or salt water while eliminating a waste product and producing 3 potentially useful clean byproducts.
Any POH would stay in solution until it reacts with contaminants... though on larger scales Ca-OH is used as a deflocculant IIRC
The use of hydrogen is quite clear, but could the nitrogen be put to use for agricultural purposes?
In one of your other urea videos you mentioned what happens when you hear urea up to 120°C for a few hours. What was it that it forms that's as hard as diamond again? I forget offhand and it would be swell to make some for material analysis mate.
The best fuel cell is the alkaline nickel catalyst based used in the Apollo missions dirt cheap. the problem is if there is any CO2 contamination of the oxygen ie air then it destroys the potassium hydroxide electrolyte. Now urea can be used to produce ammonia and there for continuously replenish the electrolyte. I wonder how much electric power can be generated from a person to run an off grid house. I am using so little electricity now just LED lights and I am going over to red/yellow lights lower power and don't affect sleep rhythm. More people = pee.
I'm curious and cannot locate an answer on line, ... Where water can be expected to produce ... Brown's gas at 1,866 Ltr/ per 1 / Ltr of water.. at .. 2 H atoms.
Where Eurea has 4 Atom's of H..... would it then .. yeild, ... Twice that of brown's gas per one liter.... Apreachiate any pointers... No over technical tho...
Thom in Scotland.
Rob, please, after seeing many times the tubes about electrolysis, do you think that combining a urea electrolyzer with a fuel cell could give us a overunity equipment? Thx
Is human urine of the right concentration to use as is in this with some sodium hydroxide?
Cool! now wouldn't graphitized floral foam work for the anode and cathode? Also if you have the nitrogen gas go to a chamber with a continuous electrical arc and then bubbled through distilled water you will get nitric acid. Have a merry day Robert!
I think it most definitely would mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Excellent :)
@@ThinkingandTinkering , hi Robert. Nice idea. By the way how much amps it draws? Since we need to calculate power to output ratio. Like x kw : y volume of H2 : z volume of N2.
Thanks.
When I was in school, I built one with two forks stabbed and pinned down two pieces of steel wool to make two electrodes.
Unfortunately I did not have the right power supply to test my build.
cat litter that is really cheap or maybe quick lime may break down cat urine into ammonia or urea. At least it stinks after a few days like that. So is that a chemical or bacterial reaction.
Can sulphuric acid be used?i am thinking even more hydrogen ?
I'd be woried about Hydrogen Sulfide gas
@@technosaurus3805 would that separate at low voltage?
@@Buzzhumma Not a chemist but there is a specific term for that voltage that escapes me at the moment, I just know enough to try to be safer in the future. If you use salt, you can get chlorine gas - gotta be careful especially in enclosed spaces.
@@technosaurus3805 decomposition? Hydrogen evolution ?
Sulphuric acid should work fine, although it would likely be less conductive than KOH/NaOH or chloride salts. Your best results would probably be with Chlorides although they are more corrosive and would produce chlorine gas.
Hallo, after having done a ton of experiments, i still do not get the point of electrolyzing urea.
In my experience in the lab, it seems I'm a A LOT more efficient into electrolyzing water than urea. I'm using 5%weight addition of NaOH ald 32,5% pure urea in water solution.
That's AdBlue with 5% on NaOH added.
The resoult is a dramatic loss of efficiency compared with NaOH solution in water by itself.
What can I change to my process? Thanks.
How much out put and what can you do with ??
Very Very interesting. Will you show how to store the H2? many thanks DVD:)
Does this mean I could pee in a jar then create usable hydrogen from it? I am sure the smell would be unpleasant, but functionally?
Pubs for power stations
Robert the TnT at the start, is that yours and Luke's surnames?
When we reverse the operation mean when we make bubbler of hydrogen and oxygen instade ... are we going to get small amount of electricity ?
@Rik rik thanks for clarifying
Any thoughts on using a similar concept to desalinate water for the garden? I was thinking of removing the salts by concentrating them on the electrode but my understanding is pretty surface level right now.