Alright, alright, we've heard you loud and clear! We're more than happy to send a brand new Saturn 4 ULTRA to Mr. Once in a six side. We've already DM'ed him, hoping for a prompt response to accept the review unit. Can't wait to see the Saturn 4 ULTRA on this channel!🙃
Hey look that's great and all but do you hear us about the firmware? Are calibration and recovery on power loss features able to be ported over to this machine? That would honestly be more exciting for everyone I think, and I'd rather make that video.
This is why I watch you real solution suggestions to real issues we have as 3D printer hobbyist Im in the market for a new resin printer after my mars 2 pro killed another lcd absolutely using your reviews to make my next purchase
@@OnceinaSixSide I respect you alot for not instantly backing down just for getting a review unit of the Ultra. Some channels might would have done that
Gotta say, you’re quickly becoming my favorite printer reviewer. These long form no BS reviews going through quality of life and little details is what most people skip over. The chill delivery and slick presentation really sets you apart from everyone else. Appreciate your vids man. Keep it up 🤙🏻
Oh shit I left when the patreons rolled didn't realize there was 30 minutes left, literally thought he was so pissed he was like fuck it buy me a coffee.
Only one I trust that’s for sure. You can tell this man isn’t bought like the vast majority. I’m looking to get a printer, what would suggest for a total noob?
I have the S4 Ultra and its been running non stop since I got it. I can't reccomend it enough. It burns a layer every 5 seconds. 2.1 to burn a layer, and 2.9 seconds to do the tilt. Its a game changer.
Hi ! Electronics technician here. I have a supposition as why only the Ultra has the range exposure calibration. You see, in embeded development, firmware is often deeply tied to the hardware you are developping for, and you often can't simply port features to another machine like you would do on a PC. I'm pretty sure the ultra needed quite the hardware refresh, with the camera (video is a lot of data for small microcontrollers) and the wifi (often directly integrated inside the chip). That probably meant recoding/porting a big part of the software was needed anyway. Considering the load of work that had to be done, they probably tought it would not be worth spending development time to develop in parallel these features for the non-ultra, considering next gen printers will probably run on the new microcontrollers anyway. Reskining the old software and adaptating it to the new sensors/screen would be way faster. So yeah that sucks for the non-ultra buyers, but it's understandable and definitely not as simple as "just give it the same firmware as the ultra". And it's highly unlikely to come during it's life cycle considering it's probably an old platform now.
That makes a lot of sense! But even so I feel I have a duty to kick up a stink about this, and especially so in this case where they're debuting two nearly identical printers. I will not rest until all manufacturers are giving us calibration tools all the time 😂
Yes, but this calibration stuff is SIMPLE coding to implement, as has nothing to do with any other aspect of the printer (camera etc). It is just incredible that almost no manufacturers have included this super simple function to ALL printers! It is just ludicrous. And to do it on one 'higher' version and not its 'brother' is even dumber!!
@@MrPetersVideo It may seem simple, but I belive it's really not. Adding a menu to do a masking test or to control the Z axis is easy. A range exposure test needs to quite heavilly modify the way it prints, wich is way harder if the "printing subroutine" was not designed with this option in mind. Read bellow if you want details on why. I see two main problems that could be a huge wall to implement the feature. Timing, and data transfer. First, timing. Microcontrollers handle time sensitive tasks with "timers" (hardware counters that increment at a chosen speed) on these timers, you can set up interruptions, that will automatically check if the value of your timer is equal to a chosen value and stop the curent program running to run a bit of code of your choosing. Well the first problem is simply that timers are not unlimited. Since they are hardware, you often have one, two, four or eight of them, rarely more, and each has a limited number of channels and interrupts you can have. So, here, if the delay between turning the screen on or off is handled by two interrupts on the same timer, here you might not have enougth interrupts available. Or you could try to keep reconfiguring the interrupt timing on each screen change, but that would be messy and pretty hard to maintain probably. Kinda like juggling with a hammer, a saw and a screwdriver while woodworking because you don't have a belt to store them. The second problem is data transfer. Small microcontrollers have a small ram, and big data transfer (like video) are a challenge. Even a 12K raw image is a challenge ! Fortunately, some really smart people invented the DMA (Direct Memory Access). To keep it simple, it's a peripheral (so not processed by your computer core) that you configure once, and then, on a frequency will scrape data somewhere and put it somewhere. This somewhere can be another periferal (a signal generator for example), a remote data storage (an sd card), an output (a display driver) or even a section of the RAM. That's a wonderfull way of mooving around a big amount of data. The problem is that with a calibration routine, you need to turn on only part of the screen. And 99% of screen drivers won't let you actually modify only part of the display. So, if the slicer doesn't provide you multiple images per layer (wich would require to modify the slicer, and would multiply the file size by as much object you want in your range test) you will need to modify these images on the fly to black out some parts of it. That means loading it in the ram (maybe you don't have enougth ram to begin with) and creating a copy you can then send. And this copy must have up to 75% of it's pixels forced at 0. Assuming an 12Kx6K image with 1 bit color (so not even able of antialiasing), 75% of the image would be 6.75 milion bytes. Running on a microcontroller at a few tens of MHz that is far from a trivial opperation, and on short intervals for your callibration could definitely cause issues. So yeah, not that easy.
Do the base model and ultra even use different controller boards? I'd be willing to bet they just remove that feature from the base model firmware to differentiate the product lineups. Car companies do this shit all the time, I can't imagine Elegoo wouldn't.
@@rustyshaklford9557 No doubt from me. One doesn't have wifi (and has not the cutout for the connector on the side), no camera, a different front screen, and a different firmware. It would be really odd to have a mechanically identical printer (except for the tilt release, but that's only a stepper motor and a few laser cut/cast metal part, not enought to justify the price difference). Most of the production costs from car companies are mechanical parts, raw materials, R&D and certifications, small side features are not really expensive. In consumer electronics, design is quite cheap. What makes the bigger difference is the price of the components of the total assembly. A good example in a similar case would be the main board of the bambulab x1c and p1p/p1s. Even tho one is the stripped down version of the other, the few dropped electronics peripherals (an LCD touch screen replaced by a monochrome screen and button, and a lidar sensor) they redisigned the main board and changed the microcontroller (wich caused minor issues elsewhere, like for example the camera framerate stream being limited at 3 fps and the object skipping feature getting a delayed release).
I suggested the Saturn 4 Ultra for work. My boss decided to "save money" by buying the Saturn 4. Now he gets to pay me to do several hours of calibration prints to then test several resins for production. It's gonna be a boring week.
@OnceinaSixSide OMG! I heard the sweetest sound ever right after 12:42 ... "Geeeeek Detooouur" 🤣 Oh man, I know how it feels. I had reviewed the Saturn 2, then when Elegoo launched the Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra, I was super excited about the Wifi feature - then Elegoo sent me the regular 3. It feels a bit "whuooo whuoooaahh" when the cool kids get to review the super hot stuff and you get to review the 2nd hot stuff 😂 You are right, the Exposure Test Tool should be in ALL printers now. It is essential to start printing with a new resin you never used before. Thanks for mentioning my review.
@@OnceinaSixSide He does... Thanks! I mean, he might appreciate if he ever reads this. I read somewhere that he struggles to make the videos. But that's just a rumor.
I received my Saturn 4 at the beginning of the week and I love it. I’m coming from a Saturn 4K so it’s a game changer for me. Tang slicer is currently broken for the Elegoo users but I’m gonna stick with Chitubox for now.
We want to see the ellego saturn 4 ultra on this channel. This guy literally is dying for the multi calibration. Give it to him ellego. If anyone will champion this feature its this man!!!
I bought the M5S PRO based on your video about 3 months back and I'm super happy with it. My main small issue is it seems to get a film of resin inside the top cover. Not sure if its because i'm constantly running the heater but with several thousand hours of printing time under its belt and the spare screen i bought still in its box it was a fantastic buy. Moved over to Sunlu ABS like after your video the other week and I am blown away at how good a resin it is and how goddam cheap it is compared to some of its competitors. I've tried the clear and grey resin so far and both are super bendy and durable unlike the brittle Anycubic resins I tried.
That build plate looks like a fucking nightmare. I just recently made a complaint to stationforge for their ork bomber, which had the hollow shells face any direction that wasn't the build plate, meaning resin poured out of them when I went to remove the plate. I can only imagine this build plate doing the exact same thing, but with every damn print.
absolutely insane that the RERF is exclusive to the 4U, absolutely insane. i get the tilt-release hardware stuff, but the RERF feels inexcusable to leave missing. I SERIOUSLY hope that the do a firmware update to give it to the regular S4s. Great review as always. You've got my favorite videos in 3d Printing Miniatures space, long form and no filter, telling us how it is.
It's insane that printers don't have the exposure finder, my AC Photon had it. The worst part about testing new resins in the print shop is exposure finding.
I really like mine minus not having the rerf feature. Apparently they address the regular one not having rerf in the FaQ on the website. I can't imagine why they could include it. Maybe in a future firmware update.
My 4 Ultra is arriving within an hour. We need to see it on this channel! Thanks for the great work! [Edit] It just arrived, and it is indeed shameful that they didn't put the calibration tool on both models. It seems like an easy update.
I just realized today that the paper funnels are liners. I tried using them as a funnel by themselves. That didn't work obviously lol. And I thought they were useless. The more you know
Quick question, how does the screw placement on the Elegoo Saturn VAT compare to the Anycubic 5S Pro? I have the M5S Pro and the one downside is the the lack of a pour spout on the vat. It would be really cool if the Saturn vat worked on the Anycubic. Note on the Elegoo Mini heater they're releasing - it's not temperature adjustable - "The Mini Heater's automatic heating function intelligently engages below 25℃ and disengages above 25℃". Personally, I like to be able to crank the heat up more for faster heating or adjust for different resins. Also, Kudos to you for proper testing. I think you're the only reviewer I've seen willing to scratch the machine to check materials, stick a hard object on the LCD to test the emergency stop, disassemble the plate to see the fixings etc. Excellent job!!
Ah I did not know that about the heater! Yeah that sounds less than ideal. I like blasting the Anycubic one at its max setting of 40c. Also I just checked and the vats are sadly not interchangeable :(
OK at the moment I had to contact elegoo 😢😢😢 my fep sheet got a hole first print and my build plate has cracked. Half way though making a review video all happy and excited has quickly gone down hill
totalmente de acuerdo con su enojo , me parece muy importante que tenga el test y mas que todo la protecion a corte de luz es algo tan insignificante de hacer en una actualizacion ademas que es de suma importancia y mas para la generacion actual de impresoras . Gracias es el mejor que e visto de hoy en adelante me veo todos tus videos
Cheers! I'm gonna sound like an Anycubic shill but honestly it's the Mono 2 for a small/starter printer, or the M5S Pro if you want all the latest bells and whistles + a bigger build volume.
@@OnceinaSixSide doenst seem like you have a vid on the M5S pro. i looked around and seems there where issues with it at launch but an overall good machine. Any chance you could do a followup vid on it and what its like today? pretty please
First time I've seen a Tilt Screen on a Printer, was on de Prusa SL1 , they have proven it's a great reliability increase. I'm curious how the tilt screen on the Ultra handles hard to print with resins. Or even printing a big flat surface that would be stupid on a regular printer.
Not going to lie, I’m just not going to buy a printer without that calibration set up tool. I love my elegoo Saturn 2 but it’s dialled in for sirayatech fast and I won’t change it now because i dont have the hours required to calibrate new resins based on temp, FEP ware etc. Maybe the ultra is the way to go? But I want to see it in mass use before I buy the new tilt function.
LOOKING to get my first resin printer in the next two months , just to print med to large figurines to paint once in a while. im considering this machine , the ultra and the anycubic mono7 which im waiting for reviews to start poping up and people to actually buy them to see real world usage
Man i wish this was the ultra. I cant find answers to my questions 🤦♂️🤦♂️ people say the tilt ststem gives you 2x the speed but it doesnt seems to be that much faster? I wish elegoo put a holder for the plate like the mega 8k s has so you can let the resin run back into the tray Also how often do you need to replace the lcd screen?
I bought the ultra, and Im super stoked to get it, the only thing I wish was the ULTRA had the green lid...I do agree that the firmware should be updated to include the exposure test!!
At 27:30 this is the reason I dont like this printer, too much resin mess in the build plate. I also notice Elegoo did send the ultra first to some RUclipsrs. Doing some research it seems Elegoo did send version 4 to those with less than 50k subscribers. Except Uncle Jessy he has both models
Oh blessed day lol. I’m still waiting on my 4 Ultra. Honestly the communication about my printer has not been great (preordered in April). I have no idea when it’s supposed to come. Been having issues on my Saturn S so I’ve stopped printing other than FDM for the time being. The random choice to not include the calibration tool on the 4 is a crap anti consumer move.
It just baffles me the ultra uses the cheap looking grey with white accents and the cheaper version uses that almkst glowing premium green. Even the swivel looks better on the basic 4.
Question for you Once In A Six Side. Since you were talking about different resins and have tested a bunch, how do you deal with the contaminated IPA/water?
I've actually got all the IPA I've ever used since getting into 3D printing stored away in bottles in my laundry.. Video on this very topic definitely pending haha
At 35-ish, I think all those screws are mounted with a torque spanner at a specific torque, just guessing though. I'm only a noob at resin printing having only a Halot One.
Amazing video and very informative, thank you so much! As a query for follow up with the Ultra- is there no way to have your extraction system and their heater installed at the same time? And how impaction is the Uktras tilt release on print speeds? I've seen many other creators make suggestions but I don't think as many go into the detail you do.
What happens when your auto levelling M5s Pro can't level and the manual back up doesn't work? I found out this week. Basically you send an email to anycubic's long suffering customer support and they get you to video yourself following the manual leveling instructions. Once you do that they send out a new build plate. I've asked them to throw in some FEP but time will tell. Hopefully that will fix the issue, if not then I guess we will see.
Excellent review, I have the saturn 4 already and I like it, It feels almost weird not to have to do anything and just let the self leveling do it's thing. I had an issue with it not booting the second time I tried to use it but elegoo gave me an updated firmware and it's working fine now. Must be because I had a very early firmware. I second you in saying it REALLY needs a calibration tool, please elegoo, add this feature.
Any thoughts on a print to encase the build plate ala GKII? To alleviate cleanup a bit. I’d be happy to design and share one once mine comes. But as I don’t have the unit I don’t know how feasible that would be atm.
Man, I am very glad you tested to see if the buildppate would crash into stuff between it and the screen. My Saturn 3 ultra broke the screen that way. Still waiting on a replacement, but it has only been a couple weeks. Might just try to sell it and buy a 4 ultra. Edit: also, I found your channel because I was recommended your video on resins. I had the same suspicion, and I am very happy to see it confirmed. Definitely going to save me a lot of money printing minis for my Pathfinder/Starfinder group.
Elegoo give this good sir an ultra to review please. at this point ive been watching for a while and have greatly took the straight forward reviews into every consideration for my current printer which is saturn 2. im super stoked for the new features that the ultra offers but i want to hear every possible hassle i could run into if i do purchase it. as for the channel tho you keep doing the best work and feeding us such amazing content and reviews praise be you and the bunnies
All of the printers should have this feature. Hell there should be a software update for my saturn 2 to do it. I did order the Saturn 4 ultra because of the tilting bed. The calibration tool should be default from all manufactures from here on out.
Elegoo used the build plate "end" (not the screen) for the auto leveling because the Ultra has the tilting vat, and thus too hard to sense pressure down there also. It could be done but would need far more complex design in total. And they are not going to make two very different versions (plain 4 and Ultra) eg the plain 4 having a screen sensor and 'normal' build plate. So the plain 4 just gets 'half' the solution.... (the monsterous build plate!).
@@OnceinaSixSide Huge thanks! Friend made small customization for the twist lock system, lil bit more thickness so I can add hole for the brew belt power cable . Printer is coming today and wanted everything to be ready.
Hey, i have an old first gen epax x1, i been out of 3d printing for a while and been looking to get back in, what printer would you recommend as the go to for printing minis now?
Hmm lots of good options. Latest gen stuff is cool, great deals to be had on previous gen also. I talk about this at length at the end of this video and include links in the description
I don’t understand the issue with the lack of resin exposure configuration in the firmware. It’s this done in chitubox in software for elegoo printers?
A resin printer without a built in calibration is a braindead miss by bad salesmen making the choices for the printers instead of people actually using them. It's a disease in the business. Our input matters. We need calibration. We want them to be easy to clean. These printers are bad because noone who had a brain actually tested these and supplied constructive criticism during the testing of them. Any hobbyist would have noticed this immediately and asked for it to be fixed over spending the marketing dollars tinting the glass and other garbage. We want printing quality, QOL and utility. Nothing else.
Mars 5 Ultra, definitely. You get exposure calibration, auto bed leveling, recovery on power loss, and best of all it's a smaller printer so just everything about it is a better user experience. Happy printing!
It could be! If you intend to print them straight on the plate, maybe not. Otherwise it's a good cheap option, but I recommend stretching the budget for the Ultra or better yet the M5S Pro
mine doesnt work the front half doesnt print to the bed and the back half bakes so hard you have to chisel it off and the printer is level so thats fun.
You've both made me happy and mad at the same time You've been so dismissive of heaters over your previous videos, this is first time you've taken them seriously and I'm super happy to finally have your take on them I'd love to know if you've got an Anycubic M7 Pro review on the way as it's got such a unique heating system but I'm worried about potential issues
The two machines (4 and Ulltra) use the same screens, same UV light arrays, same rails and z rods. The Camera is included on the Ultra and judging from the mount on the 4 is probably going to be an optional extra for the standard so that's probably programmed for both. The only real hardware difference is the Wifi (which will be an add-on component from the board manufacturer) and the tilt mechanism. I highly doubt the Ultra firmware is a fully separate piece of software, it's most likely a fork of the Saturn 4 code. They absolutely could have ported the exposure test over, or better yet, designed a piece of code that was flexible enough to work on multiple device models (with some minor tweaks for each). Anycubics RERF code works on all their printers and has for years. Elegoo made a deliberate decision to make this a "Pro/Ultra" feature as an upsell. They should have designed something that can work on any of their printers. And the cynical part of me is pretty sure that they DID design it that way so that they can roll it out with the Saturn 5 Ultra and the Mars5 Pro and whatever their next generation of premium devices is. They're just choosing not to release it for their cheaper printers. Elegoo gets a lot of praise for their customer service (justifiably so) but they aren't immune from stupid decisions. Their years-long phobia about handles is one. The plastic cover on the Saturn 4 build plate which fills with IPA when rinsing the plate is another. The lack of exposure calibration is yet another. I've owned three Elegoo printers, a Phrozen and an Anycubic. Elegoo has the best support, hands down, but I've moved away from their machines because of repetitive designs with minimal changes, stupid hardware decisions, and the slow pace of hardware development. The tilt mechanism and auto levelling are the most revolutionary things they've done in years and even that's all copied from Anycubic, Prusa, and Uniformation. Honestly, if it wasn't for Elegoo's ultra-aggressive RUclips promotion and influencer marketing, they'd be struggling to keep up with other manufacturers.
1- Wifi is most likely an add-on part like on the saturn 3 ultra. 2- Yes, it's most likely the same code for both, which will enable some underlayers depending on the hardware present. So on the ultra, it detects and will use the tilt system, the wifi and the camera. Most likely the motherboard for the saturn 4U has more ROM and RAM. 3- you can make RERF using UV tools, it's not a convincing argument to buy a 3d printer. 4- Most consumer market manufacturers use this ultra-agressive , the saving grace for Elegoo is that, at least they delivered in the past. But it's really time to change this trend
Ive received an email today for the release of the mars 5 already. They really need to slow down and at least ship out totally on the last generation before the next is announced
May I ask why exactly it hurt? I know when I watch Jerry Rig Everything videos I HATE the sound, but I've heard from others they just hate seeing equipment scratched. Keen to hear your experience. Thanks!
@OnceinaSixSide I loathe seeing such a pristine, well thought out design be butched for a well thought out handle. I would prefer to use magnets to avoid damaging it. Something just makes me crumple a little when I see the damage ✌️
14k has 'square' X/Y voxels, and 12K has rectangular ones. eg Saturn 3/4 at 18um X 24uM (rectangles). But they are all so fine (small) that the rectangles are not that critical (but is still not as 'nice' as a square!).
Er, that looks very much like a _closed cell foam_ behind the grill. If so air wont easily, or wont pass through it at all making the grill essentially redundant. Love your work, mate 🤘
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Alright, alright, we've heard you loud and clear!
We're more than happy to send a brand new Saturn 4 ULTRA to Mr. Once in a six side. We've already DM'ed him, hoping for a prompt response to accept the review unit.
Can't wait to see the Saturn 4 ULTRA on this channel!🙃
Hey look that's great and all but do you hear us about the firmware? Are calibration and recovery on power loss features able to be ported over to this machine? That would honestly be more exciting for everyone I think, and I'd rather make that video.
This is why I watch you real solution suggestions to real issues we have as 3D printer hobbyist Im in the market for a new resin printer after my mars 2 pro killed another lcd absolutely using your reviews to make my next purchase
I was going to buy a saturn 4...nope not even an option now since the exposure thing is a deal breaker for me lol
@@OnceinaSixSide I respect you alot for not instantly backing down just for getting a review unit of the Ultra. Some channels might would have done that
Send me one too, maybe you'll convince me to give up Anycubic.
Gotta say, you’re quickly becoming my favorite printer reviewer. These long form no BS reviews going through quality of life and little details is what most people skip over. The chill delivery and slick presentation really sets you apart from everyone else. Appreciate your vids man. Keep it up 🤙🏻
Appreciate that! 🤘
Same. I prefer your style of real life walk through over scripted waffling any day.
Oh shit I left when the patreons rolled didn't realize there was 30 minutes left, literally thought he was so pissed he was like fuck it buy me a coffee.
Only one I trust that’s for sure. You can tell this man isn’t bought like the vast majority. I’m looking to get a printer, what would suggest for a total noob?
Give this man an ultra elegoo. I won’t buy one til he says they’re not shit.
100% the same.
Seems like every machine should have the exposure test as standard, it just makes it easier for everything and everyone.
We'll get there eventually!
Two videos in one day? The All Mighty Rabbit has blessed us again!
Praise be 🙏
Elegoo i need to see the saturn 4 ULTRA on this channel!
No we need them to bring the calibration tool to this firmware.
@@Rocknoob49 the ultra has more than calibration, the biggest new feature is the tilt release.
Watching this man leave a permanent scrape in visible spots of stuff to see if it’s plastic or metal is hilarious
The jerryrigeverything of resin printers, at least it still works.
I have the S4 Ultra and its been running non stop since I got it. I can't reccomend it enough. It burns a layer every 5 seconds. 2.1 to burn a layer, and 2.9 seconds to do the tilt. Its a game changer.
Quick question. What curing Machine should one use for the Saturn ultra 4?
@@1989denver any of them work fine.
Hi ! Electronics technician here. I have a supposition as why only the Ultra has the range exposure calibration.
You see, in embeded development, firmware is often deeply tied to the hardware you are developping for, and you often can't simply port features to another machine like you would do on a PC. I'm pretty sure the ultra needed quite the hardware refresh, with the camera (video is a lot of data for small microcontrollers) and the wifi (often directly integrated inside the chip). That probably meant recoding/porting a big part of the software was needed anyway. Considering the load of work that had to be done, they probably tought it would not be worth spending development time to develop in parallel these features for the non-ultra, considering next gen printers will probably run on the new microcontrollers anyway. Reskining the old software and adaptating it to the new sensors/screen would be way faster.
So yeah that sucks for the non-ultra buyers, but it's understandable and definitely not as simple as "just give it the same firmware as the ultra". And it's highly unlikely to come during it's life cycle considering it's probably an old platform now.
That makes a lot of sense! But even so I feel I have a duty to kick up a stink about this, and especially so in this case where they're debuting two nearly identical printers. I will not rest until all manufacturers are giving us calibration tools all the time 😂
Yes, but this calibration stuff is SIMPLE coding to implement, as has nothing to do with any other aspect of the printer (camera etc).
It is just incredible that almost no manufacturers have included this super simple function to ALL printers! It is just ludicrous. And to do it on one 'higher' version and not its 'brother' is even dumber!!
@@MrPetersVideo It may seem simple, but I belive it's really not. Adding a menu to do a masking test or to control the Z axis is easy. A range exposure test needs to quite heavilly modify the way it prints, wich is way harder if the "printing subroutine" was not designed with this option in mind. Read bellow if you want details on why.
I see two main problems that could be a huge wall to implement the feature. Timing, and data transfer.
First, timing. Microcontrollers handle time sensitive tasks with "timers" (hardware counters that increment at a chosen speed) on these timers, you can set up interruptions, that will automatically check if the value of your timer is equal to a chosen value and stop the curent program running to run a bit of code of your choosing. Well the first problem is simply that timers are not unlimited. Since they are hardware, you often have one, two, four or eight of them, rarely more, and each has a limited number of channels and interrupts you can have. So, here, if the delay between turning the screen on or off is handled by two interrupts on the same timer, here you might not have enougth interrupts available. Or you could try to keep reconfiguring the interrupt timing on each screen change, but that would be messy and pretty hard to maintain probably. Kinda like juggling with a hammer, a saw and a screwdriver while woodworking because you don't have a belt to store them.
The second problem is data transfer. Small microcontrollers have a small ram, and big data transfer (like video) are a challenge. Even a 12K raw image is a challenge ! Fortunately, some really smart people invented the DMA (Direct Memory Access). To keep it simple, it's a peripheral (so not processed by your computer core) that you configure once, and then, on a frequency will scrape data somewhere and put it somewhere. This somewhere can be another periferal (a signal generator for example), a remote data storage (an sd card), an output (a display driver) or even a section of the RAM. That's a wonderfull way of mooving around a big amount of data. The problem is that with a calibration routine, you need to turn on only part of the screen. And 99% of screen drivers won't let you actually modify only part of the display. So, if the slicer doesn't provide you multiple images per layer (wich would require to modify the slicer, and would multiply the file size by as much object you want in your range test) you will need to modify these images on the fly to black out some parts of it. That means loading it in the ram (maybe you don't have enougth ram to begin with) and creating a copy you can then send. And this copy must have up to 75% of it's pixels forced at 0. Assuming an 12Kx6K image with 1 bit color (so not even able of antialiasing), 75% of the image would be 6.75 milion bytes. Running on a microcontroller at a few tens of MHz that is far from a trivial opperation, and on short intervals for your callibration could definitely cause issues.
So yeah, not that easy.
Do the base model and ultra even use different controller boards? I'd be willing to bet they just remove that feature from the base model firmware to differentiate the product lineups. Car companies do this shit all the time, I can't imagine Elegoo wouldn't.
@@rustyshaklford9557 No doubt from me. One doesn't have wifi (and has not the cutout for the connector on the side), no camera, a different front screen, and a different firmware. It would be really odd to have a mechanically identical printer (except for the tilt release, but that's only a stepper motor and a few laser cut/cast metal part, not enought to justify the price difference).
Most of the production costs from car companies are mechanical parts, raw materials, R&D and certifications, small side features are not really expensive.
In consumer electronics, design is quite cheap. What makes the bigger difference is the price of the components of the total assembly. A good example in a similar case would be the main board of the bambulab x1c and p1p/p1s. Even tho one is the stripped down version of the other, the few dropped electronics peripherals (an LCD touch screen replaced by a monochrome screen and button, and a lidar sensor) they redisigned the main board and changed the microcontroller (wich caused minor issues elsewhere, like for example the camera framerate stream being limited at 3 fps and the object skipping feature getting a delayed release).
The ultra is what I want you to go over with an angry comb.
I suggested the Saturn 4 Ultra for work. My boss decided to "save money" by buying the Saturn 4. Now he gets to pay me to do several hours of calibration prints to then test several resins for production.
It's gonna be a boring week.
Honestly the Ultra is such a good deal at the price it's at, idk why you would buy a 4 unless you wanted multiple
Without the tilt there are better and cheaper saturn 4 alternatives
@@Bobby11 Like what, I really would like to know, since I'm in the market. Need to replace a 7 year old resin printer.
What ones would you recommend? I am likely getting a new printer this summer and t he 4 Ultra was what I was looking at
@@zackvirgo3597 Honestly GKtwo, 4 Ultra and M7 pro are the ones I've been looking at. TBH anything is an update from this wanhao d7
I'll be waiting for the GK3
@OnceinaSixSide OMG! I heard the sweetest sound ever right after 12:42 ... "Geeeeek Detooouur" 🤣 Oh man, I know how it feels. I had reviewed the Saturn 2, then when Elegoo launched the Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra, I was super excited about the Wifi feature - then Elegoo sent me the regular 3. It feels a bit "whuooo whuoooaahh" when the cool kids get to review the super hot stuff and you get to review the 2nd hot stuff 😂 You are right, the Exposure Test Tool should be in ALL printers now. It is essential to start printing with a new resin you never used before. Thanks for mentioning my review.
That Geek Detour guy makes some pretty neat videos! 😁
@@OnceinaSixSide He does... Thanks! I mean, he might appreciate if he ever reads this. I read somewhere that he struggles to make the videos. But that's just a rumor.
I agree Elegoo please add calibration also to the normal Saturn 4, pretty sure it makes you an extra few sales!
I received my Saturn 4 at the beginning of the week and I love it. I’m coming from a Saturn 4K so it’s a game changer for me. Tang slicer is currently broken for the Elegoo users but I’m gonna stick with Chitubox for now.
We want to see the ellego saturn 4 ultra on this channel. This guy literally is dying for the multi calibration. Give it to him ellego. If anyone will champion this feature its this man!!!
Truth 😂
I bought the M5S PRO based on your video about 3 months back and I'm super happy with it. My main small issue is it seems to get a film of resin inside the top cover. Not sure if its because i'm constantly running the heater but with several thousand hours of printing time under its belt and the spare screen i bought still in its box it was a fantastic buy.
Moved over to Sunlu ABS like after your video the other week and I am blown away at how good a resin it is and how goddam cheap it is compared to some of its competitors. I've tried the clear and grey resin so far and both are super bendy and durable unlike the brittle Anycubic resins I tried.
That's great! The m5s pro + Sunlu abs-like is a phenomenal combo. Happy printing 🍻
I am screaming!!! Please stop just scratching it😭😭
For Voxeldance, they now have an activation option where you put in the code off the machines info label on the side
My ultra has been mind blowing. The calibration tool on the ultra is so fricken helpful!!! Hope you get to take a crack at the s4u soon.
Elegoo anycubic uniformation please give this man all your resin printer!!!! He is the chosen one!
That build plate looks like a fucking nightmare.
I just recently made a complaint to stationforge for their ork bomber, which had the hollow shells face any direction that wasn't the build plate, meaning resin poured out of them when I went to remove the plate.
I can only imagine this build plate doing the exact same thing, but with every damn print.
You’d have to get a magnet plate, which i’m fine with. I’d rather have the self leveling
waiting for my Saturn 4 Ultra
absolutely insane that the RERF is exclusive to the 4U, absolutely insane. i get the tilt-release hardware stuff, but the RERF feels inexcusable to leave missing. I SERIOUSLY hope that the do a firmware update to give it to the regular S4s.
Great review as always. You've got my favorite videos in 3d Printing Miniatures space, long form and no filter, telling us how it is.
It's insane that printers don't have the exposure finder, my AC Photon had it. The worst part about testing new resins in the print shop is exposure finding.
Cant wait for my Ultra to arrive, going to be such a massive upgrade.
Wish the Ultra was green too though.
I feel the same way! Love the green! An option to pick the lid color would be nice.
I really like mine minus not having the rerf feature. Apparently they address the regular one not having rerf in the FaQ on the website. I can't imagine why they could include it. Maybe in a future firmware update.
Just read the FAQ and there wasn't a single mention of it 😞
@@OnceinaSixSideSorry it's under the answered questions at the bottom of the Saturn 4 page.
@@FlaccidGnome I'm struggling to find it 😅
@@OnceinaSixSide Sorry, I pinned it to the discord in general chat.
Please Elegoo send this man the Saturn 4 Ultra. He will love it, if not it will make Great content
Should turn all the lights off makes it look better, but thats okey since we cant see anything anyways :P
I love how sensitive your microphone is this video gave me lots of asmr tingles with the scratching and tapping lol
Such a detailed review on the Saturn 4. Elegoo give him the ultra!
My 4 Ultra is arriving within an hour. We need to see it on this channel! Thanks for the great work! [Edit] It just arrived, and it is indeed shameful that they didn't put the calibration tool on both models. It seems like an easy update.
Not into resin 3D printing, have no interest in miniatures, but I still watch every video you post. Keep up the great work, man!
I'm glad for a chance to see a review of the regular Saturn 4. Most people only review the Ultra, it seems
I just realized today that the paper funnels are liners. I tried using them as a funnel by themselves. That didn't work obviously lol. And I thought they were useless. The more you know
Oh my gosh lol. I feel so dumb rn lol. You're totally right
SO next video is best resin for 3d printed guitar picks?
hahahaha loved the fume extractor installed!!! Well done.
Quick question, how does the screw placement on the Elegoo Saturn VAT compare to the Anycubic 5S Pro? I have the M5S Pro and the one downside is the the lack of a pour spout on the vat. It would be really cool if the Saturn vat worked on the Anycubic.
Note on the Elegoo Mini heater they're releasing - it's not temperature adjustable - "The Mini Heater's automatic heating function intelligently engages below 25℃ and disengages above 25℃". Personally, I like to be able to crank the heat up more for faster heating or adjust for different resins.
Also, Kudos to you for proper testing. I think you're the only reviewer I've seen willing to scratch the machine to check materials, stick a hard object on the LCD to test the emergency stop, disassemble the plate to see the fixings etc. Excellent job!!
Ah I did not know that about the heater! Yeah that sounds less than ideal. I like blasting the Anycubic one at its max setting of 40c. Also I just checked and the vats are sadly not interchangeable :(
OK at the moment I had to contact elegoo 😢😢😢 my fep sheet got a hole first print and my build plate has cracked. Half way though making a review video all happy and excited has quickly gone down hill
This is the coolest 3d printing intro i have seen so far.
My m5s has the adjustable build plate, the bolts are hidden underneath stickers in case you need to manually level at some point.
Can't wait to see your ultra review. I'm really consodering upgrading from my saturn 2 to an saturn 4 ultra :D
totalmente de acuerdo con su enojo , me parece muy importante que tenga el test y mas que todo la protecion a corte de luz es algo tan insignificante de hacer en una actualizacion ademas que es de suma importancia y mas para la generacion actual de impresoras . Gracias es el mejor que e visto de hoy en adelante me veo todos tus videos
Damn it now i'm gonna spend all day listening to Tool on loop
Really loving the way these vids review machines and calling out the BS. Would love to know which machine is your pick at the moment?
Cheers! I'm gonna sound like an Anycubic shill but honestly it's the Mono 2 for a small/starter printer, or the M5S Pro if you want all the latest bells and whistles + a bigger build volume.
@@OnceinaSixSide doenst seem like you have a vid on the M5S pro. i looked around and seems there where issues with it at launch but an overall good machine. Any chance you could do a followup vid on it and what its like today? pretty please
First time I've seen a Tilt Screen on a Printer, was on de Prusa SL1 , they have proven it's a great reliability increase.
I'm curious how the tilt screen on the Ultra handles hard to print with resins.
Or even printing a big flat surface that would be stupid on a regular printer.
The M5s pro is fantastic but I've been using the new M7 Pro more.
I'm keen to have a look at that printer too, I hear it's fast! How do you find the two pumps? Is it a pain in the ass to change out resin?
@@OnceinaSixSide Honestly I dont like using resin pumps. I just rather pour it out myself back into the bottle
Not going to lie, I’m just not going to buy a printer without that calibration set up tool. I love my elegoo Saturn 2 but it’s dialled in for sirayatech fast and I won’t change it now because i dont have the hours required to calibrate new resins based on temp, FEP ware etc.
Maybe the ultra is the way to go? But I want to see it in mass use before I buy the new tilt function.
I got my ultra today going to hopefully get time tomorrow to play around with it. Loved your review on the 4 hope you get a ultra to review soon
LOOKING to get my first resin printer in the next two months , just to print med to large figurines to paint once in a while. im considering this machine , the ultra and the anycubic mono7 which im waiting for reviews to start poping up and people to actually buy them to see real world usage
Man i wish this was the ultra. I cant find answers to my questions 🤦♂️🤦♂️ people say the tilt ststem gives you 2x the speed but it doesnt seems to be that much faster?
I wish elegoo put a holder for the plate like the mega 8k s has so you can let the resin run back into the tray
Also how often do you need to replace the lcd screen?
I bought the ultra, and Im super stoked to get it, the only thing I wish was the ULTRA had the green lid...I do agree that the firmware should be updated to include the exposure test!!
I'd love that feature. I'm going to start my very 1st resin print sometime this week. I'll be using a Creality Halot-Sky.
At 27:30 this is the reason I dont like this printer, too much resin mess in the build plate. I also notice Elegoo did send the ultra first to some RUclipsrs. Doing some research it seems Elegoo did send version 4 to those with less than 50k subscribers. Except Uncle Jessy he has both models
Please test Nova3D's "Mecha" Resin - water washable. ABS-Like. I am having good results with this and almost as durable as Wargamer resin.
Oh blessed day lol. I’m still waiting on my 4 Ultra. Honestly the communication about my printer has not been great (preordered in April). I have no idea when it’s supposed to come. Been having issues on my Saturn S so I’ve stopped printing other than FDM for the time being.
The random choice to not include the calibration tool on the 4 is a crap anti consumer move.
It just baffles me the ultra uses the cheap looking grey with white accents and the cheaper version uses that almkst glowing premium green. Even the swivel looks better on the basic 4.
Question for you Once In A Six Side. Since you were talking about different resins and have tested a bunch, how do you deal with the contaminated IPA/water?
I've actually got all the IPA I've ever used since getting into 3D printing stored away in bottles in my laundry.. Video on this very topic definitely pending haha
@@OnceinaSixSide you aren't the only one... someone needs to make a commercially available recycler
At 35-ish, I think all those screws are mounted with a torque spanner at a specific torque, just guessing though. I'm only a noob at resin printing having only a Halot One.
I was dozing off and the music almost gave me a heart attack
Thank you for the video. I was debating on one ultra plus accessories or two saturn 2 but the one thing i wanted was that damn exposure feature. Ugh
Amazing video and very informative, thank you so much!
As a query for follow up with the Ultra- is there no way to have your extraction system and their heater installed at the same time? And how impaction is the Uktras tilt release on print speeds? I've seen many other creators make suggestions but I don't think as many go into the detail you do.
What happens when your auto levelling M5s Pro can't level and the manual back up doesn't work?
I found out this week. Basically you send an email to anycubic's long suffering customer support and they get you to video yourself following the manual leveling instructions.
Once you do that they send out a new build plate. I've asked them to throw in some FEP but time will tell.
Hopefully that will fix the issue, if not then I guess we will see.
Excellent review, I have the saturn 4 already and I like it, It feels almost weird not to have to do anything and just let the self leveling do it's thing.
I had an issue with it not booting the second time I tried to use it but elegoo gave me an updated firmware and it's working fine now. Must be because I had a very early firmware.
I second you in saying it REALLY needs a calibration tool, please elegoo, add this feature.
Any thoughts on a print to encase the build plate ala GKII? To alleviate cleanup a bit. I’d be happy to design and share one once mine comes. But as I don’t have the unit I don’t know how feasible that would be atm.
Man, I am very glad you tested to see if the buildppate would crash into stuff between it and the screen. My Saturn 3 ultra broke the screen that way. Still waiting on a replacement, but it has only been a couple weeks. Might just try to sell it and buy a 4 ultra.
Edit: also, I found your channel because I was recommended your video on resins. I had the same suspicion, and I am very happy to see it confirmed. Definitely going to save me a lot of money printing minis for my Pathfinder/Starfinder group.
Elegoo give this good sir an ultra to review please. at this point ive been watching for a while and have greatly took the straight forward reviews into every consideration for my current printer which is saturn 2. im super stoked for the new features that the ultra offers but i want to hear every possible hassle i could run into if i do purchase it.
as for the channel tho you keep doing the best work and feeding us such amazing content and reviews praise be you and the bunnies
I wonder if AnyCubic filled a patent on the resin exposure tool? Does that keep others form doing it?
who designed that buildplate???
All of the printers should have this feature. Hell there should be a software update for my saturn 2 to do it. I did order the Saturn 4 ultra because of the tilting bed. The calibration tool should be default from all manufactures from here on out.
Will you be reviewing the new Anycubic M7?
Where do you get that calibration file? Looking at the tableflip foundry site they show it but the download just opens the old cones of calibration
It's still in beta, you can download it from their Discord server.
Elegoo used the build plate "end" (not the screen) for the auto leveling because the Ultra has the tilting vat, and thus too hard to sense pressure down there also. It could be done but would need far more complex design in total. And they are not going to make two very different versions (plain 4 and Ultra) eg the plain 4 having a screen sensor and 'normal' build plate. So the plain 4 just gets 'half' the solution.... (the monsterous build plate!).
Hello! You said that the bolts for extractor are bit too short. How long they need to be for your quick lock one?
Hey! I believe I used m3x12 bolts 🤘
@@OnceinaSixSide Huge thanks! Friend made small customization for the twist lock system, lil bit more thickness so I can add hole for the brew belt power cable . Printer is coming today and wanted everything to be ready.
Hey, i have an old first gen epax x1, i been out of 3d printing for a while and been looking to get back in, what printer would you recommend as the go to for printing minis now?
Hmm lots of good options. Latest gen stuff is cool, great deals to be had on previous gen also. I talk about this at length at the end of this video and include links in the description
How does the Anycubic Ms Pro compare with this in operating noise levels?
The fan is a little bit more audible in the Anycubic, however I'd still say it's a quiet machine. Definitely not annoying. Hope that helps!
I don’t understand the issue with the lack of resin exposure configuration in the firmware. It’s this done in chitubox in software for elegoo printers?
A resin printer without a built in calibration is a braindead miss by bad salesmen making the choices for the printers instead of people actually using them. It's a disease in the business. Our input matters. We need calibration. We want them to be easy to clean. These printers are bad because noone who had a brain actually tested these and supplied constructive criticism during the testing of them. Any hobbyist would have noticed this immediately and asked for it to be fixed over spending the marketing dollars tinting the glass and other garbage. We want printing quality, QOL and utility. Nothing else.
Can you source the silicon trays with the tall brim and handles?
Love the intro!
I bought this printer and took it out added resin and a sliced file hit print and everything it printed since that day was perfect.
I was really hoping for them to send the Ultra, that’s the one I was looking to hear your review for!
Advice please best printer to buy elegoo Saturn 4 or the elegoo ultra 5 please ?
Mars 5 Ultra, definitely. You get exposure calibration, auto bed leveling, recovery on power loss, and best of all it's a smaller printer so just everything about it is a better user experience. Happy printing!
Cant decide between saturn 4, mars 5 ultra or anycubir m5. They are all the same range price 👉👈 can you give me your recomendation
M5S Pro all day every day
So is this printer good for printing my Zbrush sculpts off at like maybe 5 or 6 inches tall? Ive never owned a 3d printer.
It could be! If you intend to print them straight on the plate, maybe not. Otherwise it's a good cheap option, but I recommend stretching the budget for the Ultra or better yet the M5S Pro
@@OnceinaSixSide ok ill check them out.
mine doesnt work the front half doesnt print to the bed and the back half bakes so hard you have to chisel it off and the printer is level so thats fun.
You've both made me happy and mad at the same time
You've been so dismissive of heaters over your previous videos, this is first time you've taken them seriously and I'm super happy to finally have your take on them
I'd love to know if you've got an Anycubic M7 Pro review on the way as it's got such a unique heating system but I'm worried about potential issues
The two machines (4 and Ulltra) use the same screens, same UV light arrays, same rails and z rods. The Camera is included on the Ultra and judging from the mount on the 4 is probably going to be an optional extra for the standard so that's probably programmed for both. The only real hardware difference is the Wifi (which will be an add-on component from the board manufacturer) and the tilt mechanism.
I highly doubt the Ultra firmware is a fully separate piece of software, it's most likely a fork of the Saturn 4 code. They absolutely could have ported the exposure test over, or better yet, designed a piece of code that was flexible enough to work on multiple device models (with some minor tweaks for each). Anycubics RERF code works on all their printers and has for years.
Elegoo made a deliberate decision to make this a "Pro/Ultra" feature as an upsell. They should have designed something that can work on any of their printers. And the cynical part of me is pretty sure that they DID design it that way so that they can roll it out with the Saturn 5 Ultra and the Mars5 Pro and whatever their next generation of premium devices is. They're just choosing not to release it for their cheaper printers.
Elegoo gets a lot of praise for their customer service (justifiably so) but they aren't immune from stupid decisions. Their years-long phobia about handles is one. The plastic cover on the Saturn 4 build plate which fills with IPA when rinsing the plate is another. The lack of exposure calibration is yet another. I've owned three Elegoo printers, a Phrozen and an Anycubic. Elegoo has the best support, hands down, but I've moved away from their machines because of repetitive designs with minimal changes, stupid hardware decisions, and the slow pace of hardware development. The tilt mechanism and auto levelling are the most revolutionary things they've done in years and even that's all copied from Anycubic, Prusa, and Uniformation.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Elegoo's ultra-aggressive RUclips promotion and influencer marketing, they'd be struggling to keep up with other manufacturers.
1- Wifi is most likely an add-on part like on the saturn 3 ultra.
2- Yes, it's most likely the same code for both, which will enable some underlayers depending on the hardware present. So on the ultra, it detects and will use the tilt system, the wifi and the camera. Most likely the motherboard for the saturn 4U has more ROM and RAM.
3- you can make RERF using UV tools, it's not a convincing argument to buy a 3d printer.
4- Most consumer market manufacturers use this ultra-agressive , the saving grace for Elegoo is that, at least they delivered in the past.
But it's really time to change this trend
What’s with these new build plates? They look like a nightmare to clean and a great way to waste resin.
Was so hoping to see the ultra I've got one pre ordered and would love to here your thoughts on it
Ive received an email today for the release of the mars 5 already. They really need to slow down and at least ship out totally on the last generation before the next is announced
Not seeing any usb for usb air purifier
can you tell me does it exist at 4 or 4 ultra ?
Nope no USB on the 4. I don't think the 4U has it either! :(
Glad I went ahead to preorder the ultra not the base model now just based on the calibration tool
Where did you get that transfer tray?
5:20 really hurt, you could have just used glue and a magnet. Then you could swap out handles. N52 or N48 Magnets
May I ask why exactly it hurt? I know when I watch Jerry Rig Everything videos I HATE the sound, but I've heard from others they just hate seeing equipment scratched. Keen to hear your experience. Thanks!
@OnceinaSixSide I loathe seeing such a pristine, well thought out design be butched for a well thought out handle. I would prefer to use magnets to avoid damaging it. Something just makes me crumple a little when I see the damage ✌️
Now I wish my Creality didn't have such a great handle. Those handles are so cool.
14k has 'square' X/Y voxels, and 12K has rectangular ones. eg Saturn 3/4 at 18um X 24uM (rectangles). But they are all so fine (small) that the rectangles are not that critical (but is still not as 'nice' as a square!).
Some time stamps would be wonderful!
You just throw the tissue you used to wipe the resin? You don't cure them?
Er, that looks very much like a _closed cell foam_ behind the grill. If so air wont easily, or wont pass through it at all making the grill essentially redundant. Love your work, mate 🤘