I'm Italian but coming from Calabria in an area where Greek had a great influence not just on the language but on the overall culture. Said that, I'm learning modern Greek and I personally find easier than learning German, the language I needed to learn, having moved in Germany. Is it for personal reason or because this "far" background helped? I don't know. But anyway, I'm super interested in this topic :)
No, se vieni da una zona da Catanzaro in giù sei facilitato dalla varietà neolatina che, come diceva il Rohlfs, è "spirito greco, materia romanza". Ad esempio la costruzione col "ma/mi/mu" (come in "vogghiu mi vai") è praticamente un calco del greco medievale e moderno "να" ("θέλω να πας"). Il grecanico che oggi si parla in alcuni centri dell'Aspromonte (e che dovremo impegnarci per salvare dall'estinzione) era infatti parlato, fino al XIII secolo, in un'area che andava pressappoco da Catanzaro a Messina.
I've found the problem with German is not only that it's a difficult language, but that it's not all that accessible a language. It's very pedantic and rigid. People often told me that Russian is incredibly difficult, but I found it easier than German because it's more accessible.
That's interesting! I guess with migration from Greece and exchange like travel and trade through the centuries there would be Greek words in the Calabrian language/dialect? Is it true that some entire villages are of Greek origin? In Sweden we've had a lot of German influence trough the centuries - migration, trade and cultural influence - which makes it easy to learn each others languages. (I know both languages are Germanic but aside from that we have A LOT of loan words directly from German). At least understanding the words is easy - perfect grammar can still be a struggle...
@@frida507 There is no "Calabrian language/dialect", since Calabria is one of the most diverse regions within Italy (and linguistically two different sub-groups of the Italo-Romance branch are spoken). Greek in Calabria dates back to the ancient Greek colonization in Southern Italy ("Magna Graecia"), evolutioning through the Roman and Byzantine periods. In the 13th century, two centuries after the end of the Byzantine rule in Calabria, Greek was still spoken in the southern part of the region - roughly from Catanzaro to Reggio (the northern part has always been more Latinised) - and in the northeastern corner of Sicily. After the 13th century Greek in Calabria started to declining until reaching to the present-day's situation, where only 2 villages still speak it. Now there is a revival process, but a lot of work is still necessary.
Modern greek are easier than german because german are similar to ancient greek with datums etc. If you learned greek 50 years ago it would been as hard as german. Those days greek were more complicated.
Half-Greek Cypriot English (Brit) native speaker here who's spoken Greek since childhood (not Cypriot, unfortunately, but standard modern Greek) and studied Italian while continuing to learn French after secondary school at uni (I'm at about B2 in Italian). Metatron, there are more similarities than you realise! There are words and grammatical structures I learnt faster than my classmates thanks to my Greek and I kept note while I was at uni. A lot of everyday Greek vocabulary is of Italian origin and entered the language recently (mostly through Venetian): αντίο / addio, βαλίτσα / valigia, βόλτα / volta (though in Greek it means a 'stroll' rather than 'time' [as in 'occasion']), γκρίζο / grigio, γούστο / gusto, κάλτσα / calza, καπέλο / cappello, καριέρα / carriera, κουβέρτα / coperta, κουζίνα / cucina, κουνέλι / coniglio, μα / ma, μπίρα / birra, πορτοφόλι / portafoglio, ράτσα / razza (*), σκούρο / scuro, τρένο / treno, φασαρία / fesseria, φάτσα / faccia (*), φέτα / feta (slice; not the cheese), φράουλα / fragola, φρένο / freno, φρέσκο / fresco (fresh), φρούτο / frutto and so, so many more; not to mention those to do with food, music or art (though these are probably universal)! There are also plenty of reborrowings, too, which are fascinating: βραχίων - bracchium - braccio - μπράτσο (this is my fave). Just one example off the top of my head when it comes to grammatical structures are imperatives and the order of pronouns which is the same (whereas in French, it's the other way around): δως του το / daglielo BUT donne-le-lui πες μου το / dimmelo BUT dis-le-moi (Admittedly, the pronouns in Greek can go the French way, too.) The word order's the same with gerunds, too: βλέποντάς το / vedendolo απαντώντας του / rispondendogli Oh! The verb endings are very similar, too! That was my first inkling at uni when I thought to myself "OMG!": 1st pers. sg. -ω / -o 1st pers. pl. -με / -mo 2nd pers. pl. -τε / -te 3rd pers. pl. -νε / -no These ending similarities are also found in the other Romance languages, too (Spanish is usually the one most people notice these similarities in first), of course. Then there's how Greek verbs have become more... I forget the linguistic term; analytical? Anyway, what I mean is, the infinitive has been lost and replaced by subjunctive constructions (even in the first person which is weird for Romance speakers: θέλω να πάω στην παραλία / lit. voglio che (io) vada (!) alla spiaggia; and then the perfect is formed in much the same way as in Romance languages, except it's always έχω (have): έχω δει / ho visto; είχα δει / avevo visto. There are shared idiomatic expressions, too (and here I'll include the most famous one used when these cognates come up between Greeks and Italians meeting - there's also been a series of TikToks [**] about it!): δε βλέπω την ώρα / non vedo l'ora (*) una faccia (φάτσα), una razza (ράτσα) (**) www.tiktok.com/@onlyingreece_/video/7269369580970134817?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7210556022736455173 Of course, noticing all of these requires a lot of knowledge and experience as it can be very easy upon hearing Greek from afar to miss all these little words. Anyway, knowing Greek already meant I learnt Italian super quick and I'm sure you'd find the same thing! I hope that you'll appreciate me essay of a comment here and revisit the topic in another video because it most certainly deserves more attention! Modern Greek is a sadly often overlooked language and I was very excited to see this video pop up in my notifications! Michael
I remember traveling to italy 40 years ago in a little village just outside genoa i stoped to buy cigarettes but was a bit short so this fine lady shopkeeper very kindly handed me a pack then she called me over just i going to my and started telling me batso batso and i replied no batso no you very nice to me thank you i must go until her husband appeared who spoke a bit of english explaining to me hes wife wanted to kiss me and wish me well whitch we did in the end but apppologised and both that batso in greek meant a slap so im wondering why ona identical word can have two different meanings it is strange non the less😊
I'm Greek. My father used to be a truck/lorry driver (18 wheeler for Americans). He traveled from Greece to Italy and back every week. He was able to learn basic modern Italian language through experience and by talking to common people during his travels. Also, he told me that there's a huge difference between how the language is spoken in North vs South. In fact he told me that in a lot of places in South Italy (and probably around Sicily as well) a Greek person could possibly perform basic communications with locals in Greek, as their local idioms derive from Greek origin. Myself have never been to Italy. However I have a couple of Italian friends and I was able to identify quickly some loan Italian words used in modern Greek. PS: Excellent work for pronouncing "theta" and "delta". Another Greek letter that's difficult for a lot foreign speakers is the letter "gamma". Most people tend to pronounce it "G" as in "Garry" or "G" as in "George". In Greek however those pronunciations require two letters (GK for Garry and TZ for George)
The "Γάμμα/Ghámma" and the "Ghayn" in arabic and the "yagh" in tamazight, are sounding just as the same letter and its use!!! So, we are closest to the North Africa and the Middle East as about the "ghámma" letter. In Spanish language they are pronuncing the "g" usually as h and maybe only in some cases as a sound between a "γ" and a "h".
To be fair, pick a dozen Greeks from the far north to the most south and multiple islanders and they won't hold a proper conversation between them. 😅 In my opinion, the most complete form of modern greek dialect comes from the North.
I've lived in both Italy and Greece. There are some Italian words that have made it into Greek, some of which I think entered Greek when there were Italian colonies. When I lived in Italy I sometimes heard words that seemed to have a common root with Greek, like coniglio and kouneli, or lucanica and loukaniko. I also had Italian friends from Calabria whose last names were definitely Greek in origin.
It goes back longer than that. Originally, Latin had a fairly limited vocabulary. It was well-suited for matters of law and administration, but it lacked the variety of words and expressions that Greek had for philosophy, art and life, so the Romans simply borrowed heavily from Greek -- much as they did with arts and religion. In time, Latin and Latin-based languages influenced Greek. It's a bit like the relationship between Japanese and Standard Chinese.
@@Bunnyroo7 At the end of the day I consider it a pity that Greek didn't become the lingua franca of the modern world (which is now, arguably, the English language). Sciences, philosophy, technology would have advance better as the Greek language is far richer and exponentially more accurate and descriptive than English (the latter uses Greek-derived words for the most complicated meanings/terms in science, technology and philosophy). I would even call Greek a creative language (as the Greek language facilitates the creation of new, very descriptive and accurate terms by synthesizing words and prepositions like επί, παρά, δια, κατά, υπέρ, υπό, ανά, εκ, etc) even though, at some instances, I certainly appreciate the everyday practicality and simplicity of English.
@@C_R_O_M________ Greek does have its merits. There is a reason why the language of a small country in the far corner of Europe has had such a massive impact on the world. I'm not sure that the language itself would have changed much. After all, all the things you mentioned have developed perfectly well in many languages. It's also hard to say that English is "not" a rich language. It's an inherently flexible, open and dynamic language that has always expanded as it needed to.
Also, a lot of Italian words passed into Greek through commerce, from Venetians. Actually, for some reason, it is easy to have a general understanding of an Italian speaking.
Italians didn't create colonies in Greece, because the word Italian is a recent creation and not ancient and secondly there wasn't any colonization of greek region by "Italians". Colonization means building new cities on empty regions, not conquering the existent cities. Venetians ruled some islands after conquering them. That's not colonization
I'm an American that speaks Greek. I learned it from churchgoers and online a while, it helped me a lot to learn Russian. Mainly it taught me how to use IPA, really niche phonetics like retracted S, inflected grammar, etc. And it taught me to learn cases by natural method rather than reading grammar books. It's admittedly easier than Russian, but also extremely challenging compared to something like Mexican Spanish. (Due to exposure and limited cultural connection to Greece rather than Mexico) So far I'm around b1-b2. Fascinating language, and is also extremely consistent in inflection rules.
Easier than Russian? I don’t think so. The historical orthography is a nightmare. Also, stressing the words is something that foreigners mess up with. Not to mention how they ignore a whole bunch of adjectives and participles … ταχύς , θαλασσής , πλακατζής , διεθνής, They sound the same , but they are different. Ο διεθνής - του διεθνούς .. οι διεθνείς Ο πλακατζής - του πλακατζή - οι Πλακατζήδες Ο θαλασσής - του θαλασσιού - οι θαλάσσιοι Ο ταχύς - του ταχέος - οι ταχείς Native speakers fuck them up all the time. Do you know how many times native speakers say “οι πληγέντες περιοχές» Ο πληγείς - η πληγείσα - το πληγέν … Ο ομιλών - η ομιλούσα - το ομιλούν Ο κυβερνών - η κυβερνώσα - το κυβερνών Ο λήξας - η λήξασα - το λήξαν I pretty sure you ignore all these things. Prepositions look pretty straightforward, but as you keep learning, you will find out that they can be used with different grammatical cases changing their meaning. Native speakers fuck them up. Από + nominative , + genitive, + accusative Επί + genitive , accusative , dative Υπέρ , κατά , περί , διά , μέχρι , μετά, υπό … either with accusative or genitive … People also mess around with the grammatical gender of the nouns … Τέρας , πατέρας , λεκές , πρανές, οδός , τροχός , έπος , καρέκλα , άρμα , αιδώς , φως , κτλ And of course the verbs. Ignore some tenses , fuck up irregular verbs and never use correctly the aspect of a verb … The articles are ignore by foreigners whose mother language doesn’t have such a concept … and they are used badly by others whose mother language has the concept of “articles” In general, even with half grammar and small vocabulary , Greeks understand … and on top of that, because they love exaggerating a loooott, they will tell you that you speak better than them. 😮😂
In Greece we say "una faccia una razza" (one face one race) meaning we're so very much alike with Italians especially Southern Italians, that we're practically brothers. Of course that doesn't apply all that much in the languages! There's a variety of common words though, like φινιστρίνι/ finistrini (meaning the small window used in ships and especially planes, we don't use this word for house windows) from the Italian word finestra or the word faccia / φάτσα for face. Other common words is opera (όπερα), duetto (ντουέτο), duro (ντούρο), diva (ντίβα), numero (νούμερο), tomata (τομάτα), ombrella (ομπρέλα), pacchetto (πακέτο), pappagallo (παπαγάλο-ς), gato (γάτο-ς/ γάτα). As for Spanish, truth be told Greek and Spanish are of course totally different languages, but the pronunciation is basically identical to the point a Spanish who has learned Greek has almost no foreign accent and vice versa. I'm talking about castilian spanish of course. PS in Calabria they still speak a form of Greek dialect descending from the ancient world. A dying dialect I'm afraid.
@MrPolinikis Not parts,its full on Dorian all Ε are Α as well as they use all the characterizations the Spartans did for example. Its the Dorian dialect with some modern Italin words they picked up here and there depending on who was the conqueror at that point in time.
@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 wrong, most southern Italy was full of Greek colonies in antiquity, so much in fact that during Peloponnesian war Sparta and Athens mostly fought there between their respective colonies
If you come from Salento, Southern Calabria, and the area of Messina - and you speak the local variety - Modern Greek is easier, since the Romance varieties spoken there are influenced by Greek not only in vocabulary, but also in syntax: let's not forget Greek (which survives today, even though in danger of extinction, in the forms of Grecanico in Calabria and of Griko in Salento) was widely spoken in those areas until the 13th century.
@@alessandrom7181 They still have classical origins: there are elements which can't be explained through later stages of the Greek language (such as infinitive). The reason Grecanico and Griko are more similar to Modern Greek is because - rather than migration - those areas have been continuously in contact with Eastern Mediterranean (also during the Roman age) and, of course, influenced by the Greek literary language based on Koine until the end of the Byzantine period.
I first started to be interested in learning Greek in a restaurant. The place mats had phrases in Greek, and it looked interesting. yt husband and I became friendly with one of the waitresses, whose family came from Cyprus.We soon decided to go the Greece, but after the rule of the Colonels (yes, i'm nearly old...) When we got there, to the Dodecanese I was instantly recognised as having a Cypriot accent. I was pretty proud that me accent was Cypriot and not Glaswegian!
@@janetmackinnon3411 the heavy Scottish accent in English is to me the most difficult to grasp and often impossible to understand. BTW, did you know that there's an opinion about the etymology (Greek word) of the name "Scotland"? According to that, the name is thus because some ancient Greek travelers (and we know that some made it almost as far north as near the Arctic circle) named the place "Σκωτία" which could be interpreted as "The land of darkness" ("Σκότος, σκοτάδι = darkness). Cheers.
Πολύ καλή ανάλυση, φίλε μου! Συγχαρητήρια! Also, you forget to mention that they are 2 nations that can have a quite long debate without one's speaking the language of the other! The understanding is achieved just with hands, eyes and similar mindset. Thank you.
First off,I ought to say,FINALLY,finally we get a dedicated video about Greek! This language is just incredible,and I swear,I am not saying that because am a native,its truly fascinating that even as a native I still learn new things on a regular basis. I am really proud of that fact,our language has such a huge vocabulary that a lifetime of learning wouldn't be enough to learn it all,meaning you'll always learn as you go. Btw pretty good pronunciation for an untrained person
@@lightbringer2794 I'm a random Greek too, that comes from a long line of random Greeks and some not so random. There are Greek professors of Ancient Greek that also speak the modern Greek, English and Italian and Latin and know Hebrew from biblical studies. And pronunciation is Greek native, in both ancient and modern. There are even young professors.
Χαίρε! Please remember that the south part of Italy, was part of the Greek world, and was called Magna Graecia. Many Italian cities have Greek names. For example Napoli is from Greek Neapolis and it means "New City". Fun fact: NPC's in Assassin's Creed Odyssey speak and sing in ancient Greek, but with modern Greek pronunciation.
True, they dont use the Ancient Greek accent, if you want to know how was write on youtube Podium-Arts, he is Greek and he make videos with ancient Greek accent
I'm a native Dutch speaker, moved to a Greek island two years ago and I'm learning both Modern and Attic. For me it's not a very hard language to learn as the grammar is pretty regular and relatively easy to learn, I should dedicate more time to expanding my vocabulary, though reading Modern Greek for me is a lot easier than speaking and listening right now.
I'm learning Greek right now! And believe it or not, the previous language I've studied was Italian hahahha So right I speak Portugues as my native language, English as second, German was the third one I've studied but unfortunately most of it I lost after years without practicing it. Then the forth one was Italian after an amazing trip to Italy ( I needed to have more of "Italy" in some way or another until my next trip, so learning the language was a no brainer). The fifth was Greek. I was looking for a different language, with a different alphabet. Russian and Japanese were among them but right at that moment when I was deciding which one to study, the Russian invasion happen so my desire to learn it went away really fast. And Japanese... multiple alphabets, nahhh too much. Greek was a perfect choice for someone like me who loves history mythology etc. It’s quite a challenge, but very rewarding as it opens your comprehension for other languages that used Latin and Greek as foundation.
I am Greek and when I listen Italian (in a movie for example) I understand more than I would expect, even though I never studied Italian. Maybe it is the knowledge of English (which almost every Greek has), maybe because I studied some basic Latin at school, maybe because there are many Italian words in the Greek vocabulary, or a combination of all of that. The Italian pronuncination is very clear too. That helps.
If you speak both Greek and English, then Romance languages are easy. English has a lot of Latin words due to the Norman occupation of England (it's also how English absorbed some Greek words, via French).
I am Greek amd i was in Spain for vacations. When i was talking with my wife in Greek the Spaniards around us believed that we were taking a Spanish dialect maybe from Latin America...and they spoke to us in Spanish..
Great job metatron. Ive been speakong Greek all my life! Yet i was born and raised in chicago Il. I had to speak Greek to hear the s you were speaking of. Yes we do it just aren't aware of it. Thanks so much fascinating video. My maternal grand mother was from Tripoli , dead center on the Peloponesos. My grandfather was from Catania in Sicily. Im fluent in both but was exposed more to the Greek than the Sicilian. I loved your Sicilian video. Your fast Palermo dialect blew my mind. Understood very little!
I'm Greek living in Spain and you're absolutely right. My boyfriend is Spanish, he's fluent in greek and has no accent. He sounds native. Also he speaks latin and he's now learning ancient greek and he says the same. That ancient and modern greeek are not that different in comparison to latin and Italian/spanish/portuguese/french/romanian.
Δαφνη αν καταλαβα καλα θελεις να πεις οτι υπαρχει μεγαλυτερη ομοιοτητα μεταξυ αρχαιας και νεας Ελληνικης απο οτι μεταξυ λατινικης και συγχρονης Ιταλικης.
Καλά, μην τρελαίνεσαι κιόλας με το fluent! Εδώ οι Έλληνες πλέον δεν ξέρουν πώς κλίνεται «ο διεθνής και ο συλληφθείς» , ο Ισπανός θα ξέρει! Μόλις μιλήσει ένας ξένος και πει τρία πράγματα στα ελληνικά … «μιλά απταίστως». Το μαργαριτάρι πάει σύννεφο ( για μας το λέω ). Ακόμα και στην τηλεόραση λέγονται τρομερά πράγματα. Από ορθογραφία τίποτα. Άμα μπεις στο προσωποδίκτυο του Μπαμπινιώτη, εκεί θα δεις ποσά πράγματα τα λέμε λανθασμένα. Όσο αφορά στην προφορά του Ισπανού, δεν κάνει και κανένα κόπο. Ελάχιστες οι διαφορές.
I remember while stationed in Germany I met a fellow Christian Brother from Greece; I was surprised how many words I understood. Interesting the word for library in Spanish, Bavarian and Greek were very similar. Biblioteca.
Thanks for the video! As a Greek working in Italy I would say the similarities in vocabulary are much more extensive than one would assume from this presentation. There has been an exchange of words in both directions, and not only in antiquity. So we say "porta", for example, although the "official" (and ancient) word for it is "thyra". Similarly, "numero", as well as "arithmos". Also, the two languages may be in different subfamilies of the IE family, but they are still closer than either of them is to the Germanic languages, for example. Endings in "a" for feminine and "i" (written "oi" in Greek) for some plurals are also common in both languages, and help speakers of one make easier sense of the other.
As a Greek native speaker who has had some extensive exposure to Romance languages, I think that Romance language speakers are less challenged by Greek in relation to its grammar, for certain far less than English speakers. I'd say that there are three main challenges in learning Greek for a Romance speaker: a. The alphabet (duh). It's difficult but I would argue that pronunciation rules in Greek are limited and consistent so I just think that with exposure this is overcome. b. The use of the third gender (neuter) as well as the fact that some words are the opposite gender in Greek. I myself when learning a Romance language (I'm learning Italian noe), still find it challenging to picture the word table as masculine or feminine, when in Greek it's neuter. Some of these words where masculine or feminine in Ancient Greek though so that helps (but only sometimes!) c. The SPELLING. Historical spelling in Greek is a bitch, even for Greeks. Most foreign speakers I've come across have said that this is probably the most challenging thing, since there are some rules, but some of the times there are as many exceptions. This is where etymology and exposure to Ancient Greek really helped me. Keep up the great work Metatron, I hope I'll be able to converse with you in Italian before long.
Aπο ολα τα σχολια εισαι ο μονος που αποτυπωνει την πραγματικοτητα οπως ακριβως ειναι.Δυστυχως στην Δυση περασε η Ερασμιακη προφορα και αυτοι που θελουν να μαθουν τα Ελληνικα δυσκολευονται,Θα προσθετα και μια αποστροφη των Ιταλων προς καθε τι το Ελληνικο αλλα το αποκρυπτουν τεχνηεντως.
For me Greek is incredibly interesting but for a silly reason. A lot of scientific terms are derived from Greek and so it's peculiar when you hear someone casually speaking Greek and you recognize, say, a number or something else, just because you've heard of it in maths or science class...
Though I've lived my entire life in the US, my first language was Greek. To this day, I remain fluent. I practice as often as possible, along with reading Greek to maintain and expand my knowledge. Great video my friend. As my Italian friends say, una facia, una raccia!
My father was Sicilian and my mother Greek. They shared Italian as she was born in Cairo in the early 20th Century, which was then a cosmopolitan city. As an aside she also spoke as well as Greek & Italian, French, English and Arabic. My father spoke Italian to my brother and I, so we rarely heard his Sicilian (he was from Lipari), and my mother spoke to us in Greek. I never formally study the languages, and so I would say that while I speak Italian and Greek, it is at elementary school level. I would say that Italian is much easier to learn than Greek, but I love both languages. I never realised the subtle differences in the "s” sound!
I am astonished by both your bredth and depth of your knowledge as well as your insight! The points about the Spain Spanish and Greek sounding similar and the fact that modern Greek is not so "modern" implies deep knowledge but also "instict" usually found in native speakers only. Bravo, my friend!
I learned ancient Greek in university and I was surprised how much grammatical similarity there was to German, which is my native tongue. For instance the extensive prefix system of ancient Greek, the cases and so on.
That's a fact and also the greek vocabulary includes many words which are similar to words of germanic languages. Here are just some very usual examples between greek and english: Greek - Pater --> English - Father Greek - Meter --> English - Mother Greek - Thygater --> English - Daughter Greek - Hydor --> English - Water Greek - Pyr --> English - Fire Greek - Aer --> English - Air Greek - Nychta --> English - Night
The German language has been syntactically based on ancient Greek. Martin Luther to create German grammar, was based on ancient Greek grammar. This is why you notice many similarities in syntax.
@@Hydrogen-Hyperoxide Kudos to you for pointing this out. I was about to make the same comment. Martin Luther got an ancient Greek translation of the Bible (I believe) and, upon the grammatical syntax of that text, he formed the German grammar rules. I have heard thus from German speaking Greeks. Unfortunately I don't speak German myself.
@@DimitrisTziounis not to mention the word "idiot" which derives from "ιδιώτης" (from the verb "Ιδιωτεύω") or someone who does not participate in the commons (Athenian democracy).
One correction only, Noble Metatron. The Italian alphabet does derive from the Latin alphabet which is almost identical to one of the ancient Greek alphabets: The Euboean alphabet. Greece did not have one alphabet but many different variations.
As a Greek, I found this video really interesting and your pronunciation of Θ and Δ to be spot on! I myself love Italy (to the point I almost broke a door when Baggio lost that penalty back in 1994) and have recently started to learn Italian which I'm enjoying immensely. It's been a little daunting with all the tenses but at least I can understand some commonly used words which are - or sound - exactly the same or quite similar in Greek (like porta, bagno, aeroporto, orologio, ora, bibioteca, teatro, museo etc). All in all, great content, would love to see more videos on the comparison of the two languages
Italians have a slight advantage in vocabulary. Large parts of Greece were conquered by the Venetians so Greek have a lot of words that are identical to Italian. Piatto, porta, razza, fetta, faccia, bagno all exist in modern Greek. There are words like κουζινα that sound more Venetian (cuxina) than Italian (cucina) but are still recognizable. Also some rural dialects preserve ancient Latin loanwords. People from my dad's village call streets "strata", exactly the same as Latin.
@@elenilepouri7253 According to de Vaan's dictionary, Latin sternere (where strata comes from) and στόρνυμι are not borrowings but inherited from an Indo European root that also gave us words in Welsh, Avestan and Sanskrit. Regardless where it comes from though, the word strata with the meaning of street is a uniquely Latin development as far as I know.
@@thkarape The ancient verb " στρονυμι" is Greek There are words consider has latin irigin but its not. Plazza is latin- Italian but originated from Greek adjective πλατεως - πλατυς large .. Greek πλατεια- square so plazza is πλατεια ( square)
I love your videos, your dedication to present a very accurate idea about the subject you deal with...which is so rare to see in the media. Cheers from Greece
Native Greek, i know ancient greek also but with a modern greek accent. Italian to us greeks is very familiar because we feel close to the Italians. Also, all italian movies (especially 50's 60's movies), series etc are shown with subtitles so we have the opportunity to listen to the italian language as it is spoken. As a result of that, Italian is easier for us to understand and learn, perhaps easier than english, in the western parts of Greece especially. Ciao!
There are some funny cases where a greek word makes its way to another language, is altered by that language and then comes back to Greece with this alteration. Example: The greek "χορδή/chord" was adopted in Latin "corde", it became "cordone" in modern Italian and then came back to Greece in the form "κορδόνι/kordoni" to refer to shoelaces
If you think about it, we are together from 840 BC! From Magna Greccia, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, etc. Our difference is in the German influence on Italia and Turkish influence on Greece in the middle ages.
Such a pleasure to get this shortened, but also well approached. I can only add for the retracted S that it's not at all like SH...actually it is pretty similar to the english one. Greeks hate using SH. You mightt come across different pronunciations due to regions/dialects, but the vast majority keeps it as a simple S.
South Italy provinces Sicily,Calabria,Basilicata and part of Puglia and Campania were part of Magna Grecia and even today there is a dialect of greek in the south called Griko.
I am greek and I have learned English and French until now. This summer I stumbled upon some RUclipsrs that were learning Italian in 7 days or sth, and I watched them out of curiosity. I was so amazed of how many italian worlds I already knew from the 3 languages I already know! Though French is the most useful of them all, due to it being a Romance language as well, I find so many words that are almost the same in Greek and English as well! I searched Italian more and next month I'm gonna start some lessons to learn it because I find it such a fun and interesting language! I can't wait!
I’m trying to learn Greek but it is challenging! I’m using Duolingo and planning on purchasing some grammar books and children’s books to help. Thank you for the video!
My dad went to Regis High School in NYC and back then he was required to learn both Latin and ancient Greek. And since he took the science track, also German. Although I never asked him, I would expect back in the 1940s and 50s the method of learning these languages was heavy focused on sheer rote memorization.
If he tried to learn Greek in the 50s , then he would have been taught some form of Demotiki , which is a simplified version of 19th century Greek. The grammar is a bit different and more difficult than the modern , the punctuation also is A LOT more difficult. It required heavy memorization to learn. They kept simplifying the language from the early 20th century onwards in order to reduce illiteracy. 19th century Greek is no joke
Very interesting video. I am Greek and I'm in love with italian language. The italian pronunciation is not very difficult for us. So there is a myth in Greece that italian is a very easy language, compared to french for example. I find the italian grammar quite tricky. Though the more I learn italian, the more I love it.❤
Hello Metatron! Great video as always!!! You always have the best content & always present things in the most honest way, & your Love for Hellenism has always clearly shown. I want to note that, Modern Greek shares thousands of words with Italian, especially those internationally codified Greek words that date back from Antiquity that the French mainly codified & popularized a few hundred years ago. There was also A LOT of words & phrases that were shared from Ancient Greek into Latin, too many for me to list. We also have the Indo-Euro Words & Roots connection. But people ALSO tend to forget that the "Byzantines" inherited a HECK of A LOT of words into their Greek Language, also too many to lost here. We should also mentioned the regional Venetian & Genoan words into Greek that are also A LOT. There are so many words shared between these two civilizations & I have been working on a list that included many THOUSANDS already! Its quite remarkable! 👍🏻
All I know is that my Greek friends accuse my Italian friends of ripping off their philosophy, looks, politics and most importantly, PIZZA!😅 And yes! Greek speakers and Spanish speaker bug each other out. My Greek friend Despina married a Spaniard and they thought her husband was speaking a dialect of Greek when they first heard his Spanish. Same goes for her when she moved to Spain with him.
@@Prof_SpuddLatin did import into Greece. I am from the city of Trikala (ancient Τρίκκη, home of the god of medicine, Asclepius) in Thessaly. It is located nearby the Pindos Mountains and most of the people here like myself are Βλάχοι (Vlachs). Basically our ancestors were traders and livestock owners. They were ethnically Greek and when the Roman conquest of Greece happened in order for them to communicate easier with the Romans and trade they used a language which is half-greek and half-latin. This passed on to the next generations up to our age and even confused other Greeks believing that these people are not Greeks (this helped Romanian propaganda but this is another story). Sadly this language was never written down, but only spoken and is now almost extinct because we all learn standard Greek at school (for example I can't speak it but my grandfather could). It is basically a sibling language of Italian, French, Spanish etc. because it is a mix of latin and local language.
@@ΒασίληςΑναστασίου-ψ4υ I think that's how southern italian dialects were born Iike Sicilian or Neapolitan? Sicilian is easy for me who also speaks Spanish and Italian but some words like old form is very foreign sometimes. Heard they have influence from Greek too
very interesting video! (modern green learner here), my mother tongue is Spanish (venezuelan Spanish) and sometimes I see Greek words in Italian like "πάρκο" (párko)/parco /park
Always interesting to hear your views and take in your immense knowledge. Greek is my mother tongue but having been brought up in London from the age of one English has become the dominant language,after great efforts I upgraded my fluency in Greek. Greek has always been an advantage in English where seemingly complex , intellectual words in English can easily be identified when thinking in Greek. As I'm close to retirement I really want to study french which I did at school and found I was doing well in at the time Any profound tips for fast learning of a European language I'm sure have some ....keep up the unique podcasts!
It’s tragic for the modern Italians to not understand Greek! Until 1453 the south Italians 70% was speak Medieval Greek! And was the same country with the Greeks as eastern romans (Byzantine empire)
As a Greek I find many similarities with Italians and when I see an Italian it's like I've seen him somewhere before. I have an Italian friend on fb, he looks same like my first cousin. It is amazing!
Great video! i do however believe Greeks learn/speak Italian, and Spanish (with correct pronunciation) relatively easy. A lot of Spanish speakers seem to find it easier to learn and speak Greek than Italians do. This is all based on personal experience so don't hold it against me...
In Greece, we are familiar to some very common Italian words or phrases and whenever we listen to them, we instantly recognize them. For example, words like "giorno/buongiorno", "notte/buonanotte", "mare", "luna", "sole", "montagna", "ora", "madre", "padre", "mangiare" etc. and phrases/expressions such as "come stai", "che bello/bella", "che cosa" etc. are very easily understood by the average Greek. Furthermore, greek words like "porta", "finezza" etc. come straight form the italian language and we also use the word "duro" when we want to describe something really hard to bend down and with great resistance. As for the resemblance of sounds between greek and spanish I'd also add that a lot of times, I found myself being confused when I heard spanish language coming from far away, I thought I heard greek that I couldn't recognize well because of the distance. I speak both spanish and italian, so this video really covered a lot of my interests. And a joke...in Greece, we use an expression meaning "we are being attacked from all sides"...this expression would be easily written in spanish and pronounced 100% correctly by a spanish speaker (Madrid accent). This expression would be "valόmeza pantajόcen"...(βαλόμεθα πανταχόθεν in greek alphabet)
2:58 - It happens to me as a Greek all the time, although the other way around: I can hear people speaking Spanish far away and think they're Greek but too far away to make out what they're saying. We had a Catalan exchange student in college and he could parrot _anything_ in Greek and pass as a native! Sometimes, even speakers of Latin American Spanish sound very Greek. The way Shakira pronounces "melodia" and "idea" sounds Greek to me (and it's awesome).
Do the collaboration with Luke AND Ioannis Statakis (from Podium Arts) as well for the pitch accent video. He's native Greek so some of your native Greek viewers might like the idea. It will be AWESOME!
Hello Metatron. I commented before about my Greek friend at university being surprised that I knew about Greek and Russian letters to use for wargames flags, until I pointed out we both were science graduates that used the Greek ones in equations. She was also surprised when I pointed out one of my fellow Yorkshire dialect speakers on our course, that I tended to chat with, was half Italian. Also several of my neighbours from childhood were Italian women from southern Italy that had some Greek influence. I had watched a BBC TV show aiming to give an introduction to Greek, but all I could remember was how to ask for a drink and ask how to get to chemist for the morning after.
My maternal grandparents were Greek immigrants, and in my childhood I learned some Greek. My family spoke it with a strong rural accent, so some of the sounds were different from what you described. Quite a few of the words, it later became clear to me, were Italian loan words; for example, "pantofles" (I'm not going to try to spell it in Greek) for slippers, pronounced roughly "paddoflis."
I am greek. In school I studied ancient Greek and Latin which I adored. I also studied French and English and I wasn't bad. At 18, I traveled Italy with a backpack on train, and after a week I was surprised to find that I could have a certain communication (I could buy food , ask the direction of a street, read texts on museums. and even flirt a little , which at the time was the most important😊). I could also read a newspaper with various degrees of success. Of course , the immense patience of the people around me, helped a lot, but, coming from Greek, I found that the Italian language was both very easy to learn and also very pleasant to us. It was the combination of Greek, Latin and French that did the trick, and I was so greatful to my old Latin teacher. So , dead languages are not so dead after all if they help you interact in a language you never studied😊
I'm curious how we know that Ancient Greek was a pitched language. The alphabet doesn't seem to indicate that feature but maybe that's because the Phoenician's didn't have it. Would pitch show up in the meter of poetry? (Maybe it's just that ancient Greek authors wrote about it.)
This is how they indicated the accent: τὸ τό τῶ Those weird markings that you see on top of the letters were used to indicate the pitch. "/" is the rising pitch while "\" probably indicates a drop in pitch or no pitch at all. And "~" indicates the rising and dropping pitch (it only appears on long vowels). But I'm no expert :-)
Here's a fun activity you could try: how far back in Italian can you go before you think you lose too much meaning to understand it (at least, as Italian--before it becomes Latin)? For English, I would say that I can get the gist of the Canterbury Tales, in writing, but probably not so well if spoken. And even then, there are a lot of false friends that I would probably mistakenly think I understood.
Most Greeks can easily understand the original new testament texts in church without having a special training or education. Greek language has changed through the centuries but not in basic things.
Es totalmente cierto que el Español suena como el Griego, y diariamente hablamos muchas palabras que son griegas, sin ser muy conscientes de ello. Excelente video, Saludos desde España!
I have been learning Italian because I like Italy and visit it quite often as a turist. What is surprising is that although the words may differ, expressions are similar in Greek and Italian as opposed, for instance, to English or other Germanic languages (beside my mother tongue Greek, I speak English, Swedish and a bit German) .
Greek did have a surprising amount of innovations shared with Latin, such as both ae and αι evolving to an e sound. Ίσως να κάνεις ένα βίντεο για αυτό το θέμα, μιας και γνωρίζεις Λατινικά, αν και δεν ξέρω πόσο δύσκολο θα είναι να βρεις πληροφορίες για τα Ελληνικά. Ο Lucaς μπορεί να βοηθήσει με αυτό, φαντάζομαι.
I’m Greek and I also speak Italian which is my favourite modern language along with the charm and culture that goes with it. Excellent video, really enjoyed the phonological and linguistic analysis.
Italian is probably one of the easiest languages for English speakers to learn while Greek surprised me with how hard it is .while we have a lot of vocabulary from greek its meaning in english and other west european languages is very different from the meaning in greek. you also need to learn another alphabet. i think learning greek is almost as hard as learning russian you really need to learn a lot of new stuff .i guess the grammar is easier than Russian but that is usually something you learn later on. English has more vocabulary in common with italian and other romance languages and the words will have a similar meaning the hardest part of Italian for me is the gender.
Very nice video, I'm an Italian with Greek origins who's trying to learn this language, so the comparison was really interesting :) Do Greeks always use the "in-between" s, the one close to the sh sound? I'm asking as it's always hard for me to spot it, I only manage when some of them speak in English 😁
I am Greek and my experience with Italian was at university when I took a two year elective course. The teacher who taught Italian walked into the room speaking only in Italian.. I thought she was a lunatic for a while.... Until I began understanding her... She used to say andiamo (let's go) all the time... 20 years past after the classes and I was trying to remember something in Italian to tell one of my students of Italian descent (I'm a teacher) and I subconsciously said: 'andiamo' to get him to do something.. I don't know why I said it and if I was correct or not. Google confirmed I was...i mentioned this little example from my life experience to show you that there's more to language than just subject knowledge at school..to my Italian friend who presented this beautiful video, WELL DONE TO YOU!
I've seen a similar confusion to what happens with Greek and Spanish with modern Hebrew and French. I've seen several people who listened to someone from Israel speaking Hebrew thinking that person was speaking French. They don't even have to actually speak Hebrew for the confusion to take place sometimes it's just the accent that confuses people.
That’s really interesting. Is it the gutteral r like sound? It’d make more sense if Hebrew had nasal vowels aswell. I’m not too educated on Hebrew though
@@AristarchusEstiI'm a Hebrew speaker, although I am not native, I can make myself understood, get around, and carry a conversation very well. I have been learning it for a few years now. It probably mostly is the Uvular R sound [ʀ] that we have in common with French and German that confuses people sometimes, and that sound is kinda rare, especially in the Middle East, with every other language using the Trill R sound [r] like in Spanish (which has been one of the things that people point to to tell us we are just "European colonisers" or whatever other antisemitic BS). We don't really have nasalised vowels like French does, but a lot of us talk with a subtle nasalised quality (like many other Mediterranean peoples) and we also speak pretty fast. Also the stress is usually on the end of a word in Hebrew, so that combination may confuse the untrained ear into thinking we are speaking French
I am greek, and I would like to say that Italian seem so easy for me to understand! But I have a talent in languages so... But my father, could speak Italian and the reason was the second world war. He was a boy of 8 years old in Patra, and during the occupation many Italian souldiers were there, and they were quite nice with greek people and gave food to my starving father, who learned to speak to them and understand them, a skill he never lost.
Kalispera Metatron, from Greece! That shhh sound is common in traditional regions such as the dialect of Crete. Your pronunciation is actually quite good! Having grown up in the US, my father always made fun of me when I pronounced the "s" in the English annunciation. And it wasn't funny when he was mad at the same time.
@@miastupid7911ah interesting ! I was told by a Greek linguist that the Dodecanese has an Italian trait of pronouncing double consonants once. Like In “polloí” you’d say the L twice. Have you heard that before day to day?
@@AristarchusEsti hmmmm I can't. I have to think of a word in Greek like that. On my island, Karpathos, it's much like the Cretan dialect and the Cypriot. For instance, traditional older people, don't pronounce the d or th sound. Example: I didn't see = then eida (spelled den eida), we would say 'en eia.
I have studied both Greek and Italian, and they are my two favourite languages. Although I have studied and I'm still studying modern Greek I'd love to study some ancient Greek when the time is right. I do definitely see the similarities between Greek and Italian but they are in Norway mutually intelligible. I'd love if you made those videos about Greek, thank you.
Make a video with Luke! The guy makes anything sound interesting and he has put in the work with Ancient Greek pronunciation! I speak Greek, English and Spanish!
Greek here and I think I have some pretty interesting insights on the topic. I studied Latin in school and Italian in uni, getting a B2 certificate. Later I met my girlfriend who is Italian and I have been improving my Italian alongside her, while watching her learn Greek as well. You are right about the δ, σ, and θ sounds but I would also mention that I have seen my girlfriend struggle with the ζ, τσ and ζ sounds. Similarly I often struggle to pronounce properly the z and zz in Italian. Vocabulary wise there are some weird colloquial words that we share but other than that Greek is pretty isolated. Most Italian loan words involve food and tools.
Congrats Metatron for your modern Greek pronounciation, well done on the linguistics. Generally, your videoa are well structured and researched. Συγχαρητηρια!!
Im a greek american and had an advantage when learning spanish in school in the US just due to being able to grasp certain linguistic concepts that also exist in Greek such as conjugation, gendered words, and quite a few romance loanwords into greek or greek into spanish (puerta/πορτα, baño/μπανιο, biblioteca/βιβλιοθήκη, iglesia/εκκλησία, etc.)
I'm Greek and I also speak English (almost natively) and mainly understand French and Spanish but I do not have that much practice speaking them. Most of the concepts you described about these languages I was unaware of. I either just learned them or possibly learned to fake them for my non native languages! Great content!
The basis for Latin alphabet was Euboean writing system. It was brought to the region of nowdays Italy by Greek settlers from Euboea who founded few cities there. The Euboean alphabet was adapted and modified by Etruscans and become what people know as Latin alphabet.
Terrific stuff, Raff. This really is a linguistic rabbit-hole worth going down, I'd say! Definitely worth a collaborative video on, say, Koine Greek, with Luke.
I'm Italian and Greek is my favourite foreign language
I'm Greek and a fan of the italian cinema. The italian language is very beautiful and alive just like the greek one.
we once were in the same empire and the rest of europe with the help of turkey tried its best to fuck us over
eventually they succeded
it's not foreign, its basis
I'm Greek and Italian is my favourite foreign cuisine.
@@George-iz2ce Turkish cuisine is better
I'm Italian but coming from Calabria in an area where Greek had a great influence not just on the language but on the overall culture. Said that, I'm learning modern Greek and I personally find easier than learning German, the language I needed to learn, having moved in Germany. Is it for personal reason or because this "far" background helped? I don't know. But anyway, I'm super interested in this topic :)
No, se vieni da una zona da Catanzaro in giù sei facilitato dalla varietà neolatina che, come diceva il Rohlfs, è "spirito greco, materia romanza". Ad esempio la costruzione col "ma/mi/mu" (come in "vogghiu mi vai") è praticamente un calco del greco medievale e moderno "να" ("θέλω να πας").
Il grecanico che oggi si parla in alcuni centri dell'Aspromonte (e che dovremo impegnarci per salvare dall'estinzione) era infatti parlato, fino al XIII secolo, in un'area che andava pressappoco da Catanzaro a Messina.
I've found the problem with German is not only that it's a difficult language, but that it's not all that accessible a language. It's very pedantic and rigid. People often told me that Russian is incredibly difficult, but I found it easier than German because it's more accessible.
That's interesting! I guess with migration from Greece and exchange like travel and trade through the centuries there would be Greek words in the Calabrian language/dialect? Is it true that some entire villages are of Greek origin?
In Sweden we've had a lot of German influence trough the centuries - migration, trade and cultural influence - which makes it easy to learn each others languages. (I know both languages are Germanic but aside from that we have A LOT of loan words directly from German). At least understanding the words is easy - perfect grammar can still be a struggle...
@@frida507 There is no "Calabrian language/dialect", since Calabria is one of the most diverse regions within Italy (and linguistically two different sub-groups of the Italo-Romance branch are spoken).
Greek in Calabria dates back to the ancient Greek colonization in Southern Italy ("Magna Graecia"), evolutioning through the Roman and Byzantine periods. In the 13th century, two centuries after the end of the Byzantine rule in Calabria, Greek was still spoken in the southern part of the region - roughly from Catanzaro to Reggio (the northern part has always been more Latinised) - and in the northeastern corner of Sicily. After the 13th century Greek in Calabria started to declining until reaching to the present-day's situation, where only 2 villages still speak it. Now there is a revival process, but a lot of work is still necessary.
Modern greek are easier than german because german are similar to ancient greek with datums etc. If you learned greek 50 years ago it would been as hard as german. Those days greek were more complicated.
Half-Greek Cypriot English (Brit) native speaker here who's spoken Greek since childhood (not Cypriot, unfortunately, but standard modern Greek) and studied Italian while continuing to learn French after secondary school at uni (I'm at about B2 in Italian).
Metatron, there are more similarities than you realise! There are words and grammatical structures I learnt faster than my classmates thanks to my Greek and I kept note while I was at uni.
A lot of everyday Greek vocabulary is of Italian origin and entered the language recently (mostly through Venetian):
αντίο / addio, βαλίτσα / valigia, βόλτα / volta (though in Greek it means a 'stroll' rather than 'time' [as in 'occasion']), γκρίζο / grigio, γούστο / gusto, κάλτσα / calza, καπέλο / cappello, καριέρα / carriera, κουβέρτα / coperta, κουζίνα / cucina, κουνέλι / coniglio, μα / ma, μπίρα / birra, πορτοφόλι / portafoglio, ράτσα / razza (*), σκούρο / scuro, τρένο / treno, φασαρία / fesseria, φάτσα / faccia (*), φέτα / feta (slice; not the cheese), φράουλα / fragola, φρένο / freno, φρέσκο / fresco (fresh), φρούτο / frutto and so, so many more; not to mention those to do with food, music or art (though these are probably universal)! There are also plenty of reborrowings, too, which are fascinating: βραχίων - bracchium - braccio - μπράτσο (this is my fave).
Just one example off the top of my head when it comes to grammatical structures are imperatives and the order of pronouns which is the same (whereas in French, it's the other way around):
δως του το / daglielo BUT donne-le-lui
πες μου το / dimmelo BUT dis-le-moi
(Admittedly, the pronouns in Greek can go the French way, too.)
The word order's the same with gerunds, too:
βλέποντάς το / vedendolo
απαντώντας του / rispondendogli
Oh! The verb endings are very similar, too! That was my first inkling at uni when I thought to myself "OMG!":
1st pers. sg. -ω / -o
1st pers. pl. -με / -mo
2nd pers. pl. -τε / -te
3rd pers. pl. -νε / -no
These ending similarities are also found in the other Romance languages, too (Spanish is usually the one most people notice these similarities in first), of course. Then there's how Greek verbs have become more... I forget the linguistic term; analytical? Anyway, what I mean is, the infinitive has been lost and replaced by subjunctive constructions (even in the first person which is weird for Romance speakers: θέλω να πάω στην παραλία / lit. voglio che (io) vada (!) alla spiaggia; and then the perfect is formed in much the same way as in Romance languages, except it's always έχω (have): έχω δει / ho visto; είχα δει / avevo visto.
There are shared idiomatic expressions, too (and here I'll include the most famous one used when these cognates come up between Greeks and Italians meeting - there's also been a series of TikToks [**] about it!):
δε βλέπω την ώρα / non vedo l'ora
(*) una faccia (φάτσα), una razza (ράτσα)
(**) www.tiktok.com/@onlyingreece_/video/7269369580970134817?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7210556022736455173
Of course, noticing all of these requires a lot of knowledge and experience as it can be very easy upon hearing Greek from afar to miss all these little words. Anyway, knowing Greek already meant I learnt Italian super quick and I'm sure you'd find the same thing!
I hope that you'll appreciate me essay of a comment here and revisit the topic in another video because it most certainly deserves more attention! Modern Greek is a sadly often overlooked language and I was very excited to see this video pop up in my notifications!
Michael
Cypriot is just an idiom, not a language, Cypriot is not an ethnicity but a place of origin like Crete or Macedonia for a Hellene !
@Met4lN1kos yes that is correct
@@Met4lN1kos Ντάξι ρε καλαμαρούι
I remember traveling to italy 40 years ago in a little village just outside genoa i stoped to buy cigarettes but was a bit short so this fine lady shopkeeper very kindly handed me a pack then she called me over just i going to my and started telling me batso batso and i replied no batso no you very nice to me thank you i must go until her husband appeared who spoke a bit of english explaining to me hes wife wanted to kiss me and wish me well whitch we did in the end but apppologised and both that batso in greek meant a slap so im wondering why ona identical word can have two different meanings it is strange non the less😊
Hey, Michael! Fancy seeing you here :P
I'm Greek. My father used to be a truck/lorry driver (18 wheeler for Americans). He traveled from Greece to Italy and back every week. He was able to learn basic modern Italian language through experience and by talking to common people during his travels.
Also, he told me that there's a huge difference between how the language is spoken in North vs South. In fact he told me that in a lot of places in South Italy (and probably around Sicily as well) a Greek person could possibly perform basic communications with locals in Greek, as their local idioms derive from Greek origin.
Myself have never been to Italy. However I have a couple of Italian friends and I was able to identify quickly some loan Italian words used in modern Greek.
PS: Excellent work for pronouncing "theta" and "delta". Another Greek letter that's difficult for a lot foreign speakers is the letter "gamma". Most people tend to pronounce it "G" as in "Garry" or "G" as in "George". In Greek however those pronunciations require two letters (GK for Garry and TZ for George)
or they pronoounce Γ like the German or French R. It is a very difficult pronounciation for foreigners
The "Γάμμα/Ghámma" and the "Ghayn" in arabic and the "yagh" in tamazight, are sounding just as the same letter and its use!!! So, we are closest to the North Africa and the Middle East as about the "ghámma" letter. In Spanish language they are pronuncing the "g" usually as h and maybe only in some cases as a sound between a "γ" and a "h".
To be fair, pick a dozen Greeks from the far north to the most south and multiple islanders and they won't hold a proper conversation between them. 😅
In my opinion, the most complete form of modern greek dialect comes from the North.
@@SoulHuN7eR Isn't that true for any country though ? Different places within the same country have different accent and different idioms..
@@Fallacia_Konstantinos Sorry for asking but were are you from?
I've lived in both Italy and Greece. There are some Italian words that have made it into Greek, some of which I think entered Greek when there were Italian colonies. When I lived in Italy I sometimes heard words that seemed to have a common root with Greek, like coniglio and kouneli, or lucanica and loukaniko. I also had Italian friends from Calabria whose last names were definitely Greek in origin.
It goes back longer than that. Originally, Latin had a fairly limited vocabulary. It was well-suited for matters of law and administration, but it lacked the variety of words and expressions that Greek had for philosophy, art and life, so the Romans simply borrowed heavily from Greek -- much as they did with arts and religion. In time, Latin and Latin-based languages influenced Greek. It's a bit like the relationship between Japanese and Standard Chinese.
@@Bunnyroo7 At the end of the day I consider it a pity that Greek didn't become the lingua franca of the modern world (which is now, arguably, the English language).
Sciences, philosophy, technology would have advance better as the Greek language is far richer and exponentially more accurate and descriptive than English (the latter uses Greek-derived words for the most complicated meanings/terms in science, technology and philosophy).
I would even call Greek a creative language (as the Greek language facilitates the creation of new, very descriptive and accurate terms by synthesizing words and prepositions like επί, παρά, δια, κατά, υπέρ, υπό, ανά, εκ, etc) even though, at some instances, I certainly appreciate the everyday practicality and simplicity of English.
@@C_R_O_M________ Greek does have its merits. There is a reason why the language of a small country in the far corner of Europe has had such a massive impact on the world. I'm not sure that the language itself would have changed much. After all, all the things you mentioned have developed perfectly well in many languages. It's also hard to say that English is "not" a rich language. It's an inherently flexible, open and dynamic language that has always expanded as it needed to.
Also, a lot of Italian words passed into Greek through commerce, from Venetians. Actually, for some reason, it is easy to have a general understanding of an Italian speaking.
Italians didn't create colonies in Greece, because the word Italian is a recent creation and not ancient and secondly there wasn't any colonization of greek region by "Italians". Colonization means building new cities on empty regions, not conquering the existent cities. Venetians ruled some islands after conquering them. That's not colonization
I'm an American that speaks Greek. I learned it from churchgoers and online a while, it helped me a lot to learn Russian. Mainly it taught me how to use IPA, really niche phonetics like retracted S, inflected grammar, etc. And it taught me to learn cases by natural method rather than reading grammar books. It's admittedly easier than Russian, but also extremely challenging compared to something like Mexican Spanish. (Due to exposure and limited cultural connection to Greece rather than Mexico) So far I'm around b1-b2. Fascinating language, and is also extremely consistent in inflection rules.
Are you Orthodox?
nice name dude
Easier than Russian?
I don’t think so.
The historical orthography is a nightmare. Also, stressing the words is something that foreigners mess up with.
Not to mention how they ignore a whole bunch of adjectives and participles … ταχύς , θαλασσής , πλακατζής , διεθνής,
They sound the same , but they are different.
Ο διεθνής - του διεθνούς .. οι διεθνείς
Ο πλακατζής - του πλακατζή - οι Πλακατζήδες
Ο θαλασσής - του θαλασσιού - οι θαλάσσιοι
Ο ταχύς - του ταχέος - οι ταχείς
Native speakers fuck them up all the time.
Do you know how many times native speakers say “οι πληγέντες περιοχές»
Ο πληγείς - η πληγείσα - το πληγέν …
Ο ομιλών - η ομιλούσα - το ομιλούν
Ο κυβερνών - η κυβερνώσα - το κυβερνών
Ο λήξας - η λήξασα - το λήξαν
I pretty sure you ignore all these things.
Prepositions look pretty straightforward, but as you keep learning, you will find out that they can be used with different grammatical cases changing their meaning.
Native speakers fuck them up.
Από + nominative , + genitive, + accusative
Επί + genitive , accusative , dative
Υπέρ , κατά , περί , διά , μέχρι , μετά, υπό … either with accusative or genitive …
People also mess around with the grammatical gender of the nouns …
Τέρας , πατέρας , λεκές , πρανές, οδός , τροχός , έπος , καρέκλα , άρμα , αιδώς , φως , κτλ
And of course the verbs.
Ignore some tenses , fuck up irregular verbs and never use correctly the aspect of a verb …
The articles are ignore by foreigners whose mother language doesn’t have such a concept … and they are used badly by others whose mother language has the concept of “articles”
In general, even with half grammar and small vocabulary , Greeks understand … and on top of that, because they love exaggerating a loooott, they will tell you that you speak better than them. 😮😂
In Greece we say "una faccia una razza" (one face one race) meaning we're so very much alike with Italians especially Southern Italians, that we're practically brothers. Of course that doesn't apply all that much in the languages! There's a variety of common words though, like φινιστρίνι/ finistrini (meaning the small window used in ships and especially planes, we don't use this word for house windows) from the Italian word finestra or the word faccia / φάτσα for face. Other common words is opera (όπερα), duetto (ντουέτο), duro (ντούρο), diva (ντίβα), numero (νούμερο), tomata (τομάτα), ombrella (ομπρέλα), pacchetto (πακέτο), pappagallo (παπαγάλο-ς), gato (γάτο-ς/ γάτα). As for Spanish, truth be told Greek and Spanish are of course totally different languages, but the pronunciation is basically identical to the point a Spanish who has learned Greek has almost no foreign accent and vice versa. I'm talking about castilian spanish of course. PS in Calabria they still speak a form of Greek dialect descending from the ancient world. A dying dialect I'm afraid.
@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 You might as well be right I'm no expert.
@MrPolinikis Not parts,its full on Dorian all Ε are Α as well as they use all the characterizations the Spartans did for example.
Its the Dorian dialect with some modern Italin words they picked up here and there depending on who was the conqueror at that point in time.
Speaking of Spanish.... The word any Spanish will recognise in Greek is κωλος meaning "ass"... You see it right? And i think Italians recognise too
@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 wrong, most southern Italy was full of Greek colonies in antiquity, so much in fact that during Peloponnesian war Sparta and Athens mostly fought there between their respective colonies
@@galadballcrusher8182 LOL not the only word. Bastardo another example (μπάσταρδος)
Fratelli Greci vi mandiamo baci da Napoli 🇮🇹🤍🇬🇷
🇬🇷😊😘😘🇮🇹
Fratelli Hellenes, no Greci!
+1👍🏼🇬🇷🇮🇹
If you come from Salento, Southern Calabria, and the area of Messina - and you speak the local variety - Modern Greek is easier, since the Romance varieties spoken there are influenced by Greek not only in vocabulary, but also in syntax: let's not forget Greek (which survives today, even though in danger of extinction, in the forms of Grecanico in Calabria and of Griko in Salento) was widely spoken in those areas until the 13th century.
They are influenced by migrations in middle age, even because they are more similar to modern Greek as well as Grecanico and Grico. Duh.
@@alessandrom7181 They still have classical origins: there are elements which can't be explained through later stages of the Greek language (such as infinitive).
The reason Grecanico and Griko are more similar to Modern Greek is because - rather than migration - those areas have been continuously in contact with Eastern Mediterranean (also during the Roman age) and, of course, influenced by the Greek literary language based on Koine until the end of the Byzantine period.
I first started to be interested in learning Greek in a restaurant. The place mats had phrases in Greek, and it looked interesting. yt husband and I became friendly with one of the waitresses, whose family came from Cyprus.We soon decided to go the Greece, but after the rule of the Colonels (yes, i'm nearly old...)
When we got there, to the Dodecanese I was instantly recognised as having a Cypriot accent. I was pretty proud that me accent was Cypriot and not Glaswegian!
Where are you from? Not many foreigners know Greek modern history....
@@NickStrife Scotland
@@janetmackinnon3411 The fact you knew enough to call it "rule of Colonels" is astonishing to me... Kudos to you.
@@NickStrife Evharosto!
@@janetmackinnon3411 the heavy Scottish accent in English is to me the most difficult to grasp and often impossible to understand. BTW, did you know that there's an opinion about the etymology (Greek word) of the name "Scotland"?
According to that, the name is thus because some ancient Greek travelers (and we know that some made it almost as far north as near the Arctic circle) named the place "Σκωτία" which could be interpreted as "The land of darkness" ("Σκότος, σκοτάδι = darkness). Cheers.
Πολύ καλή ανάλυση, φίλε μου! Συγχαρητήρια!
Also, you forget to mention that they are 2 nations that can have a quite long debate without one's speaking the language of the other! The understanding is achieved just with hands, eyes and similar mindset. Thank you.
First off,I ought to say,FINALLY,finally we get a dedicated video about Greek! This language is just incredible,and I swear,I am not saying that because am a native,its truly fascinating that even as a native I still learn new things on a regular basis. I am really proud of that fact,our language has such a huge vocabulary that a lifetime of learning wouldn't be enough to learn it all,meaning you'll always learn as you go.
Btw pretty good pronunciation for an untrained person
A dedicated video to ancient greek pitch accent with Luke would be AWESOME. You could also compare and contrast it with the Japanese pitch accent!
This is the first time i have heard that Ancient Greek was "pitched". Most interesting!
How about one with a Greek?!
@@miastupid7911 Luke is a professor, a random Greek like me is not.
@@lightbringer2794 I'm a random Greek too, that comes from a long line of random Greeks and some not so random. There are Greek professors of Ancient Greek that also speak the modern Greek, English and Italian and Latin and know Hebrew from biblical studies. And pronunciation is Greek native, in both ancient and modern. There are even young professors.
@@miastupid7911check "podium arts" and Ioannis Stratakis
Χαίρε! Please remember that the south part of Italy, was part of the Greek world, and was called Magna Graecia. Many Italian cities have Greek names. For example Napoli is from Greek Neapolis and it means "New City".
Fun fact: NPC's in Assassin's Creed Odyssey speak and sing in ancient Greek, but with modern Greek pronunciation.
True, they dont use the Ancient Greek accent, if you want to know how was write on youtube Podium-Arts, he is Greek and he make videos with ancient Greek accent
You're also forgetting half of Greece or more was also under Venice and Genoa so obviously lots of Greek words come from Venetian language
I'm a native Dutch speaker, moved to a Greek island two years ago and I'm learning both Modern and Attic. For me it's not a very hard language to learn as the grammar is pretty regular and relatively easy to learn, I should dedicate more time to expanding my vocabulary, though reading Modern Greek for me is a lot easier than speaking and listening right now.
Βλέπεις καθόλου "Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης";
@@thelittletyrant5539 ΑΧΧΑΧΑΧΑΧ εξαγωγη κουλτουρας
@@thelittletyrant5539 ναι! Τους ξέρω :)
@@Prof_Spudd yeah most Dutch speakers have a retracted s indeed, in Dutch the s is softer, but the g is harsher
@@LNTutorialsNL "στο παρά πέντε" έχεις δει;
I'm learning Greek right now! And believe it or not, the previous language I've studied was Italian hahahha
So right I speak Portugues as my native language, English as second, German was the third one I've studied but unfortunately most of it I lost after years without practicing it.
Then the forth one was Italian after an amazing trip to Italy ( I needed to have more of "Italy" in some way or another until my next trip, so learning the language was a no brainer).
The fifth was Greek. I was looking for a different language, with a different alphabet. Russian and Japanese were among them but right at that moment when I was deciding which one to study, the Russian invasion happen so my desire to learn it went away really fast. And Japanese... multiple alphabets, nahhh too much.
Greek was a perfect choice for someone like me who loves history mythology etc. It’s quite a challenge, but very rewarding as it opens your comprehension for other languages that used Latin and Greek as foundation.
Ωραίος. Καλή επιτυχία! 🫡
Καλή εκμάθηση!
I am Greek and when I listen Italian (in a movie for example) I understand more than I would expect, even though I never studied Italian. Maybe it is the knowledge of English (which almost every Greek has), maybe because I studied some basic Latin at school, maybe because there are many Italian words in the Greek vocabulary, or a combination of all of that. The Italian pronuncination is very clear too. That helps.
If you speak both Greek and English, then Romance languages are easy. English has a lot of Latin words due to the Norman occupation of England (it's also how English absorbed some Greek words, via French).
I am Greek amd i was in Spain for vacations. When i was talking with my wife in Greek the Spaniards around us believed that we were taking a Spanish dialect maybe from Latin America...and they spoke to us in Spanish..
😂
I'm Greek Cypriot when I go to Spain they just start speaking Spanish to me 😂
Great job metatron. Ive been speakong Greek all my life! Yet i was born and raised in chicago Il. I had to speak Greek to hear the s you were speaking of. Yes we do it just aren't aware of it. Thanks so much fascinating video. My maternal grand mother was from Tripoli , dead center on the Peloponesos. My grandfather was from Catania in Sicily. Im fluent in both but was exposed more to the Greek than the Sicilian. I loved your Sicilian video. Your fast Palermo dialect blew my mind. Understood very little!
Una faccia una razza 🇬🇷🇮🇹
@@OKay-ox3khArmenians also I'd say but yeah I do agree
@@OKay-ox3kh Una fazza una razza love Italians I'm even supporting them at the Euros 😂
I'm Greek living in Spain and you're absolutely right. My boyfriend is Spanish, he's fluent in greek and has no accent. He sounds native. Also he speaks latin and he's now learning ancient greek and he says the same. That ancient and modern greeek are not that different in comparison to latin and Italian/spanish/portuguese/french/romanian.
Δαφνη αν καταλαβα καλα θελεις να πεις οτι υπαρχει μεγαλυτερη ομοιοτητα μεταξυ αρχαιας και νεας Ελληνικης απο οτι μεταξυ λατινικης και συγχρονης Ιταλικης.
@@socratesparcharidis5719 σωστά
Καλά, μην τρελαίνεσαι κιόλας με το fluent! Εδώ οι Έλληνες πλέον δεν ξέρουν πώς κλίνεται «ο διεθνής και ο συλληφθείς» , ο Ισπανός θα ξέρει! Μόλις μιλήσει ένας ξένος και πει τρία πράγματα στα ελληνικά … «μιλά απταίστως». Το μαργαριτάρι πάει σύννεφο ( για μας το λέω ). Ακόμα και στην τηλεόραση λέγονται τρομερά πράγματα. Από ορθογραφία τίποτα.
Άμα μπεις στο προσωποδίκτυο του Μπαμπινιώτη, εκεί θα δεις ποσά πράγματα τα λέμε λανθασμένα.
Όσο αφορά στην προφορά του Ισπανού, δεν κάνει και κανένα κόπο. Ελάχιστες οι διαφορές.
I remember while stationed in Germany I met a fellow Christian Brother from Greece; I was surprised how many words I understood. Interesting the word for library in Spanish, Bavarian and Greek were very similar. Biblioteca.
Thanks for the video! As a Greek working in Italy I would say the similarities in vocabulary are much more extensive than one would assume from this presentation. There has been an exchange of words in both directions, and not only in antiquity. So we say "porta", for example, although the "official" (and ancient) word for it is "thyra". Similarly, "numero", as well as "arithmos". Also, the two languages may be in different subfamilies of the IE family, but they are still closer than either of them is to the Germanic languages, for example. Endings in "a" for feminine and "i" (written "oi" in Greek) for some plurals are also common in both languages, and help speakers of one make easier sense of the other.
As a Greek native speaker who has had some extensive exposure to Romance languages, I think that Romance language speakers are less challenged by Greek in relation to its grammar, for certain far less than English speakers. I'd say that there are three main challenges in learning Greek for a Romance speaker:
a. The alphabet (duh). It's difficult but I would argue that pronunciation rules in Greek are limited and consistent so I just think that with exposure this is overcome.
b. The use of the third gender (neuter) as well as the fact that some words are the opposite gender in Greek. I myself when learning a Romance language (I'm learning Italian noe), still find it challenging to picture the word table as masculine or feminine, when in Greek it's neuter. Some of these words where masculine or feminine in Ancient Greek though so that helps (but only sometimes!)
c. The SPELLING. Historical spelling in Greek is a bitch, even for Greeks. Most foreign speakers I've come across have said that this is probably the most challenging thing, since there are some rules, but some of the times there are as many exceptions. This is where etymology and exposure to Ancient Greek really helped me.
Keep up the great work Metatron, I hope I'll be able to converse with you in Italian before long.
I think declension is also a great challenge for Romance language speakers.
Aπο ολα τα σχολια εισαι ο μονος που αποτυπωνει την πραγματικοτητα οπως ακριβως ειναι.Δυστυχως στην Δυση περασε η Ερασμιακη προφορα και αυτοι που θελουν να μαθουν τα Ελληνικα δυσκολευονται,Θα προσθετα και μια αποστροφη των Ιταλων προς καθε τι το Ελληνικο αλλα το αποκρυπτουν τεχνηεντως.
For me Greek is incredibly interesting but for a silly reason.
A lot of scientific terms are derived from Greek and so it's peculiar when you hear someone casually speaking Greek and you recognize, say, a number or something else, just because you've heard of it in maths or science class...
Though I've lived my entire life in the US, my first language was Greek. To this day, I remain fluent. I practice as often as possible, along with reading Greek to maintain and expand my knowledge. Great video my friend. As my Italian friends say, una facia, una raccia!
A video about Chalcidian alphabet will be great.
Love your videos! Χαιρετισμούς από Αθήνα
My father was Sicilian and my mother Greek. They shared Italian as she was born in Cairo in the early 20th Century, which was then a cosmopolitan city. As an aside she also spoke as well as Greek & Italian, French, English and Arabic. My father spoke Italian to my brother and I, so we rarely heard his Sicilian (he was from Lipari), and my mother spoke to us in Greek. I never formally study the languages, and so I would say that while I speak Italian and Greek, it is at elementary school level. I would say that Italian is much easier to learn than Greek, but I love both languages. I never realised the subtle differences in the "s” sound!
I am astonished by both your bredth and depth of your knowledge as well as your insight! The points about the Spain Spanish and Greek sounding similar and the fact that modern Greek is not so "modern" implies deep knowledge but also "instict" usually found in native speakers only. Bravo, my friend!
I learned ancient Greek in university and I was surprised how much grammatical similarity there was to German, which is my native tongue. For instance the extensive prefix system of ancient Greek, the cases and so on.
That's a fact and also the greek vocabulary includes many words which are similar to words of germanic languages. Here are just some very usual examples between greek and english:
Greek - Pater --> English - Father
Greek - Meter --> English - Mother
Greek - Thygater --> English - Daughter
Greek - Hydor --> English - Water
Greek - Pyr --> English - Fire
Greek - Aer --> English - Air
Greek - Nychta --> English - Night
The German language has been syntactically based on ancient Greek. Martin Luther to create German grammar, was based on ancient Greek grammar. This is why you notice many similarities in syntax.
That is because modern German was formed by imitating Ancient Greek syntax by Winkelmann in the 18th century!
@@Hydrogen-Hyperoxide Kudos to you for pointing this out. I was about to make the same comment. Martin Luther got an ancient Greek translation of the Bible (I believe) and, upon the grammatical syntax of that text, he formed the German grammar rules. I have heard thus from German speaking Greeks. Unfortunately I don't speak German myself.
@@DimitrisTziounis not to mention the word "idiot" which derives from "ιδιώτης" (from the verb "Ιδιωτεύω") or someone who does not participate in the commons (Athenian democracy).
One correction only, Noble Metatron. The Italian alphabet does derive from the Latin alphabet which is almost identical to one of the ancient Greek alphabets: The Euboean alphabet. Greece did not have one alphabet but many different variations.
They were variations of the same alphabet. You can look at them like different fonts.
@@cazwalt9013There were different alphabets. Same script yes, but different alphabets.
I was reading about griko language today, you should do a video about it
yessss, griko, salentino, calabrian. all heavily Italianized. would love to see these language on his channel
Yes, I would love that as a Greek. It sounds similar to Crete and Cyprus and my island of Karpathos from the videos I've seen on line.
L2 speaker of Calabrian Griko here.
As a Greek, I found this video really interesting and your pronunciation of Θ and Δ to be spot on!
I myself love Italy (to the point I almost broke a door when Baggio lost that penalty back in 1994) and have recently started to learn Italian which I'm enjoying immensely. It's been a little daunting with all the tenses but at least I can understand some commonly used words which are - or sound - exactly the same or quite similar in Greek (like porta, bagno, aeroporto, orologio, ora, bibioteca, teatro, museo etc).
All in all, great content, would love to see more videos on the comparison of the two languages
Κι εγώ είχα τρελαθεί με αυτό το χαμένο πέναλτι!
Italians + Spaniards + Greeks
Mediterranean bros
Italians have a slight advantage in vocabulary. Large parts of Greece were conquered by the Venetians so Greek have a lot of words that are identical to Italian. Piatto, porta, razza, fetta, faccia, bagno all exist in modern Greek. There are words like κουζινα that sound more Venetian (cuxina) than Italian (cucina) but are still recognizable. Also some rural dialects preserve ancient Latin loanwords. People from my dad's village call streets "strata", exactly the same as Latin.
Actually strada- strata has Greek origin. Ancient Greek verb Στρονυμι > strono > stratioti he who open the road front>¡strata strada strasse street
@@elenilepouri7253 According to de Vaan's dictionary, Latin sternere (where strata comes from) and στόρνυμι are not borrowings but inherited from an Indo European root that also gave us words in Welsh, Avestan and Sanskrit.
Regardless where it comes from though, the word strata with the meaning of street is a uniquely Latin development as far as I know.
@@thkarape The ancient verb " στρονυμι" is Greek
There are words consider has latin irigin but its not. Plazza is latin- Italian but originated from Greek adjective πλατεως - πλατυς large .. Greek πλατεια- square so plazza is πλατεια ( square)
I love your videos, your dedication to present a very accurate idea about the subject you deal with...which is so rare to see in the media. Cheers from Greece
Native Greek, i know ancient greek also but with a modern greek accent. Italian to us greeks is very familiar because we feel close to the Italians. Also, all italian movies (especially 50's 60's movies), series etc are shown with subtitles so we have the opportunity to listen to the italian language as it is spoken. As a result of that, Italian is easier for us to understand and learn, perhaps easier than english, in the western parts of Greece especially. Ciao!
Thanks. Very good explanatory video. Love Italy and Italian but above all the Italians themselves ❤ Greetings from 🇬🇷
There are some funny cases where a greek word makes its way to another language, is altered by that language and then comes back to Greece with this alteration. Example: The greek "χορδή/chord" was adopted in Latin "corde", it became "cordone" in modern Italian and then came back to Greece in the form "κορδόνι/kordoni" to refer to shoelaces
If you think about it, we are together from 840 BC! From Magna Greccia, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, etc. Our difference is in the German influence on Italia and Turkish influence on Greece in the middle ages.
Such a pleasure to get this shortened, but also well approached. I can only add for the retracted S that it's not at all like SH...actually it is pretty similar to the english one. Greeks hate using SH. You mightt come across different pronunciations due to regions/dialects, but the vast majority keeps it as a simple S.
South Italy provinces Sicily,Calabria,Basilicata and part of Puglia and Campania were part of Magna Grecia and even today there is a dialect of greek in the south called Griko.
I am greek and I have learned English and French until now. This summer I stumbled upon some RUclipsrs that were learning Italian in 7 days or sth, and I watched them out of curiosity. I was so amazed of how many italian worlds I already knew from the 3 languages I already know! Though French is the most useful of them all, due to it being a Romance language as well, I find so many words that are almost the same in Greek and English as well! I searched Italian more and next month I'm gonna start some lessons to learn it because I find it such a fun and interesting language! I can't wait!
Greeks and southern Italians are the same people
Wrong.
I’m trying to learn Greek but it is challenging! I’m using Duolingo and planning on purchasing some grammar books and children’s books to help. Thank you for the video!
My dad went to Regis High School in NYC and back then he was required to learn both Latin and ancient Greek. And since he took the science track, also German. Although I never asked him, I would expect back in the 1940s and 50s the method of learning these languages was heavy focused on sheer rote memorization.
If he tried to learn Greek in the 50s , then he would have been taught some form of Demotiki , which is a simplified version of 19th century Greek. The grammar is a bit different and more difficult than the modern , the punctuation also is A LOT more difficult. It required heavy memorization to learn. They kept simplifying the language from the early 20th century onwards in order to reduce illiteracy. 19th century Greek is no joke
Very interesting video. I am Greek and I'm in love with italian language. The italian pronunciation is not very difficult for us. So there is a myth in Greece that italian is a very easy language, compared to french for example. I find the italian grammar quite tricky. Though the more I learn italian, the more I love it.❤
Τι να μας πεις για τα ιταλικά ρε μεγάλε Ελληνικά και πάλι Ελληνικα
Hello Metatron! Great video as always!!! You always have the best content & always present things in the most honest way, & your Love for Hellenism has always clearly shown.
I want to note that, Modern Greek shares thousands of words with Italian, especially those internationally codified Greek words that date back from Antiquity that the French mainly codified & popularized a few hundred years ago.
There was also A LOT of words & phrases that were shared from Ancient Greek into Latin, too many for me to list.
We also have the Indo-Euro Words & Roots connection.
But people ALSO tend to forget that the "Byzantines" inherited a HECK of A LOT of words into their Greek Language, also too many to lost here.
We should also mentioned the regional Venetian & Genoan words into Greek that are also A LOT.
There are so many words shared between these two civilizations & I have been working on a list that included many THOUSANDS already!
Its quite remarkable! 👍🏻
All I know is that my Greek friends accuse my Italian friends of ripping off their philosophy, looks, politics and most importantly, PIZZA!😅
And yes! Greek speakers and Spanish speaker bug each other out. My Greek friend Despina married a Spaniard and they thought her husband was speaking a dialect of Greek when they first heard his Spanish. Same goes for her when she moved to Spain with him.
Tienen que hacer la cola... Hay medio mundo queriendo quitarle la pizza a Italia, incluso China 😂😂😂
@@Prof_SpuddLatin did import into Greece. I am from the city of Trikala (ancient Τρίκκη, home of the god of medicine, Asclepius) in Thessaly. It is located nearby the Pindos Mountains and most of the people here like myself are Βλάχοι (Vlachs). Basically our ancestors were traders and livestock owners. They were ethnically Greek and when the Roman conquest of Greece happened in order for them to communicate easier with the Romans and trade they used a language which is half-greek and half-latin. This passed on to the next generations up to our age and even confused other Greeks believing that these people are not Greeks (this helped Romanian propaganda but this is another story). Sadly this language was never written down, but only spoken and is now almost extinct because we all learn standard Greek at school (for example I can't speak it but my grandfather could). It is basically a sibling language of Italian, French, Spanish etc. because it is a mix of latin and local language.
We Greeks have taken a lot from Italians too
@@ΒασίληςΑναστασίου-ψ4υ I think that's how southern italian dialects were born Iike Sicilian or Neapolitan? Sicilian is easy for me who also speaks Spanish and Italian but some words like old form is very foreign sometimes.
Heard they have influence from Greek too
very interesting video! (modern green learner here), my mother tongue is Spanish (venezuelan Spanish) and sometimes I see Greek words in Italian like "πάρκο" (párko)/parco /park
Always interesting to hear your views and take in your immense knowledge. Greek is my mother tongue but having been brought up in London from the age of one English has become the dominant language,after great efforts I upgraded my fluency in Greek. Greek has always been an advantage in English where seemingly complex , intellectual words in English can easily be identified when thinking in Greek. As I'm close to retirement I really want to study french which I did at school and found I was doing well in at the time Any profound tips for fast learning of a European language I'm sure have some ....keep up the unique podcasts!
It’s tragic for the modern Italians to not understand Greek! Until 1453 the south Italians 70% was speak Medieval Greek! And was the same country with the Greeks as eastern romans (Byzantine empire)
Thank You very much for this interesting video ! 😊
As a Greek I find many similarities with Italians and when I see an Italian it's like I've seen him somewhere before. I have an Italian friend on fb, he looks same like my first cousin. It is amazing!
Great video! i do however believe Greeks learn/speak Italian, and Spanish (with correct pronunciation) relatively easy. A lot of Spanish speakers seem to find it easier to learn and speak Greek than Italians do. This is all based on personal experience so don't hold it against me...
In Greece, we are familiar to some very common Italian words or phrases and whenever we listen to them, we instantly recognize them. For example, words like "giorno/buongiorno", "notte/buonanotte", "mare", "luna", "sole", "montagna", "ora", "madre", "padre", "mangiare" etc. and phrases/expressions such as "come stai", "che bello/bella", "che cosa" etc. are very easily understood by the average Greek. Furthermore, greek words like "porta", "finezza" etc. come straight form the italian language and we also use the word "duro" when we want to describe something really hard to bend down and with great resistance. As for the resemblance of sounds between greek and spanish I'd also add that a lot of times, I found myself being confused when I heard spanish language coming from far away, I thought I heard greek that I couldn't recognize well because of the distance. I speak both spanish and italian, so this video really covered a lot of my interests. And a joke...in Greece, we use an expression meaning "we are being attacked from all sides"...this expression would be easily written in spanish and pronounced 100% correctly by a spanish speaker (Madrid accent). This expression would be "valόmeza pantajόcen"...(βαλόμεθα πανταχόθεν in greek alphabet)
2:58 - It happens to me as a Greek all the time, although the other way around: I can hear people speaking Spanish far away and think they're Greek but too far away to make out what they're saying.
We had a Catalan exchange student in college and he could parrot _anything_ in Greek and pass as a native! Sometimes, even speakers of Latin American Spanish sound very Greek. The way Shakira pronounces "melodia" and "idea" sounds Greek to me (and it's awesome).
Do the collaboration with Luke AND Ioannis Statakis (from Podium Arts) as well for the pitch accent video. He's native Greek so some of your native Greek viewers might like the idea. It will be AWESOME!
Yes! Now this is a collab and a trio I'd watch the hell out of!
Mom’s Italian, dad’s Greek.
My dad always says to my mom, “you’re Greek, too.”
Greeks and Italians have many similarities!
Hello Metatron. I commented before about my Greek friend at university being surprised that I knew about Greek and Russian letters to use for wargames flags, until I pointed out we both were science graduates that used the Greek ones in equations. She was also surprised when I pointed out one of my fellow Yorkshire dialect speakers on our course, that I tended to chat with, was half Italian. Also several of my neighbours from childhood were Italian women from southern Italy that had some Greek influence.
I had watched a BBC TV show aiming to give an introduction to Greek, but all I could remember was how to ask for a drink and ask how to get to chemist for the morning after.
My maternal grandparents were Greek immigrants, and in my childhood I learned some Greek. My family spoke it with a strong rural accent, so some of the sounds were different from what you described. Quite a few of the words, it later became clear to me, were Italian loan words; for example, "pantofles" (I'm not going to try to spell it in Greek) for slippers, pronounced roughly "paddoflis."
I am greek. In school I studied ancient Greek and Latin which I adored. I also studied French and English and I wasn't bad. At 18, I traveled Italy with a backpack on train, and after a week I was surprised to find that I could have a certain communication (I could buy food , ask the direction of a street, read texts on museums. and even flirt a little , which at the time was the most important😊). I could also read a newspaper with various degrees of success. Of course , the immense patience of the people around me, helped a lot, but, coming from Greek, I found that the Italian language was both very easy to learn and also very pleasant to us. It was the combination of Greek, Latin and French that did the trick, and I was so greatful to my old Latin teacher. So , dead languages are not so dead after all if they help you interact in a language you never studied😊
I'm curious how we know that Ancient Greek was a pitched language. The alphabet doesn't seem to indicate that feature but maybe that's because the Phoenician's didn't have it. Would pitch show up in the meter of poetry? (Maybe it's just that ancient Greek authors wrote about it.)
This is how they indicated the accent: τὸ τό τῶ
Those weird markings that you see on top of the letters were used to indicate the pitch. "/" is the rising pitch while "\" probably indicates a drop in pitch or no pitch at all. And "~" indicates the rising and dropping pitch (it only appears on long vowels). But I'm no expert :-)
@@warrior_of_the_most_high I never noticed that before. Huh. Learn something new every day. Thanks.
Άψογο video! Your pronunciation is very good and I'd love to see you learn more about our beautiful language
Here's a fun activity you could try: how far back in Italian can you go before you think you lose too much meaning to understand it (at least, as Italian--before it becomes Latin)?
For English, I would say that I can get the gist of the Canterbury Tales, in writing, but probably not so well if spoken. And even then, there are a lot of false friends that I would probably mistakenly think I understood.
Most Greeks can easily understand the original new testament texts in church without having a special training or education. Greek language has changed through the centuries but not in basic things.
Es totalmente cierto que el Español suena como el Griego, y diariamente hablamos muchas palabras que son griegas, sin ser muy conscientes de ello. Excelente video, Saludos desde España!
Italy and Greece are historically, culturally and linguistically very Great video.
I have been learning Italian because I like Italy and visit it quite often as a turist. What is surprising is that although the words may differ, expressions are similar in Greek and Italian as opposed, for instance, to English or other Germanic languages (beside my mother tongue Greek, I speak English, Swedish and a bit German) .
Greek did have a surprising amount of innovations shared with Latin, such as both ae and αι evolving to an e sound. Ίσως να κάνεις ένα βίντεο για αυτό το θέμα, μιας και γνωρίζεις Λατινικά, αν και δεν ξέρω πόσο δύσκολο θα είναι να βρεις πληροφορίες για τα Ελληνικά. Ο Lucaς μπορεί να βοηθήσει με αυτό, φαντάζομαι.
Proto-Greek and Proto -Italic are similar
You have no idea for how long I've been waiting for this!!!
I started learning Greek about 2 or 3 months ago... after listening to some longer texts I too thought it sounded a bit Spanish 😅
Oh you managed to voice a whole video I Greek in the past, I have faith in you ^^
As a portuguese speaker greek is the most beatiful language...after spanish.
Obrigado Gracias
@@vassilopoula De nada amigo!
Organise that collaborative video mate! May the algorithm Gods be praised!
i am and Aromanian (a romance group liviing in greece) my first languages are greek and aromanian i also later learned italian
I’m Greek and I also speak Italian which is my favourite modern language along with the charm and culture that goes with it. Excellent video, really enjoyed the phonological and linguistic analysis.
Italian is probably one of the easiest languages for English speakers to learn while Greek surprised me with how hard it is .while we have a lot of vocabulary from greek its meaning in english and other west european languages is very different from the meaning in greek. you also need to learn another alphabet. i think learning greek is almost as hard as learning russian you really need to learn a lot of new stuff .i guess the grammar is easier than Russian but that is usually something you learn later on. English has more vocabulary in common with italian and other romance languages and the words will have a similar meaning the hardest part of Italian for me is the gender.
Very accurate presentation!
Very nice video, I'm an Italian with Greek origins who's trying to learn this language, so the comparison was really interesting :)
Do Greeks always use the "in-between" s, the one close to the sh sound? I'm asking as it's always hard for me to spot it, I only manage when some of them speak in English 😁
yes, only 1 s sound
The biggest difference is that in Greece we speak English to tourists but when we visit Italy, especially north, communication is a major problem.
Στο Σαν Μαρίνο που είχα πάει, μιλούσαν οι περισσότεροι Ελληνικά.
Sicilian and Greek Metatronopoulos!!
I am Greek and my experience with Italian was at university when I took a two year elective course. The teacher who taught Italian walked into the room speaking only in Italian.. I thought she was a lunatic for a while.... Until I began understanding her... She used to say andiamo (let's go) all the time... 20 years past after the classes and I was trying to remember something in Italian to tell one of my students of Italian descent (I'm a teacher) and I subconsciously said: 'andiamo' to get him to do something.. I don't know why I said it and if I was correct or not. Google confirmed I was...i mentioned this little example from my life experience to show you that there's more to language than just subject knowledge at school..to my Italian friend who presented this beautiful video, WELL DONE TO YOU!
I've seen a similar confusion to what happens with Greek and Spanish with modern Hebrew and French. I've seen several people who listened to someone from Israel speaking Hebrew thinking that person was speaking French. They don't even have to actually speak Hebrew for the confusion to take place sometimes it's just the accent that confuses people.
That’s really interesting. Is it the gutteral r like sound? It’d make more sense if Hebrew had nasal vowels aswell. I’m not too educated on Hebrew though
@@AristarchusEstiI'm a Hebrew speaker, although I am not native, I can make myself understood, get around, and carry a conversation very well. I have been learning it for a few years now. It probably mostly is the Uvular R sound [ʀ] that we have in common with French and German that confuses people sometimes, and that sound is kinda rare, especially in the Middle East, with every other language using the Trill R sound [r] like in Spanish (which has been one of the things that people point to to tell us we are just "European colonisers" or whatever other antisemitic BS). We don't really have nasalised vowels like French does, but a lot of us talk with a subtle nasalised quality (like many other Mediterranean peoples) and we also speak pretty fast. Also the stress is usually on the end of a word in Hebrew, so that combination may confuse the untrained ear into thinking we are speaking French
I am greek, and I would like to say that Italian seem so easy for me to understand! But I have a talent in languages so... But my father, could speak Italian and the reason was the second world war. He was a boy of 8 years old in Patra, and during the occupation many Italian souldiers were there, and they were quite nice with greek people and gave food to my starving father, who learned to speak to them and understand them, a skill he never lost.
Kalispera Metatron, from Greece! That shhh sound is common in traditional regions such as the dialect of Crete. Your pronunciation is actually quite good! Having grown up in the US, my father always made fun of me when I pronounced the "s" in the English annunciation. And it wasn't funny when he was mad at the same time.
Crete and cyprus right? I’ve also heard it in pontic dialects. Oh and tsakonian. Tsakonian is a strange one altogether though
@@AristarchusEsti yes, in Cyprus and Pontos and Karpathos and other parts of the Dodecanese and even in parts of Peloponnesos.
@@miastupid7911ah interesting ! I was told by a Greek linguist that the Dodecanese has an Italian trait of pronouncing double consonants once. Like In “polloí” you’d say the L twice. Have you heard that before day to day?
@@AristarchusEsti hmmmm I can't. I have to think of a word in Greek like that. On my island, Karpathos, it's much like the Cretan dialect and the Cypriot. For instance, traditional older people, don't pronounce the d or th sound. Example: I didn't see = then eida (spelled den eida), we would say 'en eia.
@@AristarchusEsti oh, I see about the double LL being exaggerated. That's Northern Greece, not really in Southern Greece and not the islands.
I have studied both Greek and Italian, and they are my two favourite languages. Although I have studied and I'm still studying modern Greek I'd love to study some ancient Greek when the time is right. I do definitely see the similarities between Greek and Italian but they are in Norway mutually intelligible. I'd love if you made those videos about Greek, thank you.
Make a video with Luke! The guy makes anything sound interesting and he has put in the work with Ancient Greek pronunciation! I speak Greek, English and Spanish!
Greek here and I think I have some pretty interesting insights on the topic. I studied Latin in school and Italian in uni, getting a B2 certificate. Later I met my girlfriend who is Italian and I have been improving my Italian alongside her, while watching her learn Greek as well.
You are right about the δ, σ, and θ sounds but I would also mention that I have seen my girlfriend struggle with the ζ, τσ and ζ sounds. Similarly I often struggle to pronounce properly the z and zz in Italian.
Vocabulary wise there are some weird colloquial words that we share but other than that Greek is pretty isolated. Most Italian loan words involve food and tools.
Don’t make me fall in love with Greek I have too many languages I want to learn already
Congrats Metatron for your modern Greek pronounciation, well done on the linguistics.
Generally, your videoa are well structured and researched.
Συγχαρητηρια!!
finally a greek video
I had almost lost all hope
@@st0rmriderright he said he spoke it on the first video introducing this channel and then it disappeared
Im a greek american and had an advantage when learning spanish in school in the US just due to being able to grasp certain linguistic concepts that also exist in Greek such as conjugation, gendered words, and quite a few romance loanwords into greek or greek into spanish (puerta/πορτα, baño/μπανιο, biblioteca/βιβλιοθήκη, iglesia/εκκλησία, etc.)
Please do Corsican
I'm Greek and I also speak English (almost natively) and mainly understand French and Spanish but I do not have that much practice speaking them. Most of the concepts you described about these languages I was unaware of. I either just learned them or possibly learned to fake them for my non native languages! Great content!
Yes I am very interested in Greek!
The basis for Latin alphabet was Euboean writing system. It was brought to the region of nowdays Italy by Greek settlers from Euboea who founded few cities there. The Euboean alphabet was adapted and modified by Etruscans and become what people know as Latin alphabet.
Una faccia una razza 🇬🇷 ❤ 🇮🇹
Terrific stuff, Raff. This really is a linguistic rabbit-hole worth going down, I'd say! Definitely worth a collaborative video on, say, Koine Greek, with Luke.
In some Greek villages, the s becomes the sh sound, especially farmers tend to talk like that here
In village north, "sia" (ie "diakosia") becomes "sha" or (diakosha)
@@gnas1897 Greek here surely sounds funny sometimes, "pao spiti" becomes "pao shpit/shpet" or the contractions of "mou aresi" to "maresh"
@@LNTutorialsNL yea lol
@@gnas1897So village Greek sounds a bit Slavic?
@@cheerful_crop_circle kinda.
There's also the removal of some vowels (i.e "Ξέρεις (kseris)" becomes "Ξέρ'ςς (Ksers)")