Even if I wasn't annoyed with how much they've changed Tolkien's characters and stories already, the incredibly weird directing decisions are head-scratching (to put it mildly). The slow-motion, the harfoots heartless tradition, the orcs digging a random giant ditch to find something... is there NO ONE with a critical eye there?! I think this show will only get worse. LIke our videos? Join us on our Discord channel by becoming a Patron! www.theonering.com/patron
Why does she need a ship's passage when she's perfectly capable of swimming it. Wasn't that her original plan? Take the boat to Valinor, put on her nightgown and jump out at the last minute, then swim back to Middle Earth.
Yes, the bad writing and the silly directing decisions are weird - and now we also have one of the worst CGI creatures: a tiny warg who is as scary as an oversized chihuahua! Could it be a juvenile warg who strayed from it's pack and got lost in the orc trenches??? The show is allegedly the most expensive TV project ever. But Amazon was not able to hire a competent crew of writers and special-effect experts. These narrative deficits, the silly dialogues and the overall weird and artificial look of the show are dealbreakers for me. These blunders are IMO far worse than a few black guys amongst the elves, dwarves and hobbits - although it would have been nice if the writers would have provided us with an interesting back story of these characters instead of just randomly inserting a few non-caucasians into the show in order to meet the political-correctness quota. I think that Tolkien would not have categorically rejected the idea of black elves, dwarves or hobbits. The rules of Tolkien's universe were not at all written in stone, and he said later in his life that he regretted not to have created more significant female protagonists or a few good Haradrim. But if someone would have asked Tolkien to develop the character of a black elf, he would have provided us with some interesting background information which would explain why Arondir didn't look like the other elves, and how this difference might have shaped his personality. Galadriel was certainly not the only elf who was mobbed as a kid. These details were important for Tolkien! But the show runners couldn't be bothered. The overall lack of original and creative ideas is flabbergasting, and I really don't think that the first season can be salvaged! The show runners should take a long and hard look at their material in order to improve the next seasons. But this is only possible if they invite competent Tolkien experts, and if they are willing to listen to honest criticism.
@@Wintertalent , we don´t know a lot about the persons behind the current Tolkien estate. Christopher Tolkien would have never allowed this stuff. I am not saying that Christopher Tolkien´s opinions were always helpful. He disliked Peter Jackson´s LOTR trilogy immensely and saw no merits whatsoever in these movies. Most Tolkien fans disagreed with Christopher Tolkien as far as the LOTR trilogy is concerned. But he was passionate about the legacy of his father. I have no idea about the younger generation of the Tolkien estate, and we don´t know how closely they have been involved in the production of ROP.
@@sabineb.5616 Well, we kind of do. The Tolkien Estate is now run by Christopher's wife (who formerly ran it with him), and two of J.R.R.'s grandsons: Simon (Christopher's son) and Michael (Tolkien's other son's son). Simon is also credited on the show as a consultant. Love the show or hate it, the Tolkiens seem to be heavily involved with it.
We live in a world where people will only give honest feed back digitally. No one sat down and told those responsible how bad this was. Wait, Shippy did and he got fired.
They still named dropped Tom Shippey on stage at the Comic-Con in front of sell-out Stephen Colbert. This already one year after firing him for talking about the show and seeking an excuse to throw him overboard.... Just showing how classy they find their own soullessness.
Yes, I really don't understand who was so dumb to green-light this crap!! But the dismissal of Tom Shippey probably eliminated the last expert who would've given the show runners an honest feedback.
What happened to the days when critics were feared? Remember the scathing reviews that Ebert and Siskel would give films. And studios didn't annoy them because their bad press could kill a movie! Although check Eberts own site, and clearly after his death the replacement critics are aligned with the studios. As I'm sure Roger wouldn't have given The Last Jedi 4 stars?!?! And is now being used to power downtown Chicago! We need critics that we can trust again. Not reviewers who give their scoops after receiving their goodie bags!
Amazon succeeded in making the cow with black milk the most interesting character in this show. Also, why isnt Galadriel just swimming back to Middle Earth from Numenor since apparently she can do it from the Undying Lands?
What I have learned about this show is that the script writers have no idea about anything that is not cheap, wanton drama. They had a whole worldbuilding done and they swept ot off the table because they thought they could do it better. But they replaced it with ridiculous plot points that are there only because they serve the story they have concocted. They don't even know how basic human psychology works, or diplomacy, or politics. Hell, they can't even google "why a boat floats" to find a competent allegory to put into paper. It like reading the fanfict of a pretentious teenager who has only watched teen dramas all his/her life and wants to sound poetic and deep.
It does sound like a pretentious teenager thinking he knows better than anyone else.. also, she ACTS like a teenager. She's not mature. She acts spoiled, arrogant and smug. I don't think there is anywhere you can get the Galadriel of the books from this immature brat.
This is what it is when modern creators, or rather corporations, focus only on "the message" and have absolutely no knowledge and skills in creating movies or TV series.
I was shaken to the core when Galadriel said: “May the Woke be with you.” - so brave and beautiful! Instant Tolkien classic. I can't stop crying! 10 out of 10
I was also moved when she threw her tampon at the orc and replaced it mid air after jumping on a sword. Such a strong independent woman right there, I am inspired by her strength and bravery 🤩🙏especially during such trying times🩸🩸
I know right! I don't know why all the fascists, racist, misogynists who hate this show don't listen to A multi billion dollar corporation that made its fortune bankrupting small businesses and employing people like modern day indentured servants. After all they are led by an incredibly moral man who came back from his private space flight just to let us know that we should eat plants and insects and take cold showers or his hundred million plus new coastal property might get flooded. If you weren't such fascists you would know that billion dollar big tech in collusion with corporate media and the deep state who vilify and censor all critics should know what authoritarian fascist look like, and that is people like you with your free speech and delusions of democracy. And it so racist not to want people employed or excluded on the basis of their skin color alone, that is why we need Identity politics so that this kind of discrimination is innate within society to make it more just. Finally who but a man with their toxic masculinity would dislike a wonderful strong women such as 5'8" multimillionaire actress who doesn't know the price of milk and has never cooked a meal washed a dish in her life? She is the perfect cast for a warrior and dignitary who has seen death and destruction beyond comprehension and swallowed it hole and spat it out. And Gladriel is the example of female grace and strength we all know every 4th wave feminist harnesses, bitter, self obsessed, wilfully ignorant, conceited and arrogant, what is there not to love about this character?
By the ending of the 2nd episode: “well, he cannot be Elendil, cause he was born almost 2000 years after that”, and it turned out it was him. By the end of the 3rd episode: “Halbrand cannot be Sauron because Sauron was imprisoned in Númenor after Ar Pharazon attacked Mordor”, and turns out he could actually be Sauron. By this pace, the “Rocket Man” could actually be Gandalf (because it doesn’t matter what the lore says)
When I saw the trailer, I try so hard to keep in my mind that isn’t true. But, omg😱, it’s probably happened like what u said ( also what I think ). 😭😭😭
I was telling my buddies this, the timeline which wouldn’t even be hard to follow is so out of wack! It’s extremely difficult to watch, along with all these ridiculous plots/scenes.
Your captain delivered us from certain death and then she wants a ship, amazing, so why can't she just take another swim? The slo-mo horse ride could have been a 1980's ad for Tampax.
The captain rescued them from certain death, which means that as the raft was the best source of survival prior to the ship showing up, she genuinely thought she was going to die when she decided to swim back to Middle-Earth
@@Gorbz Any SANE person would have thought of their odds of survival before they intentionally jumped overboard several thousand miles from the coast of Middle Earth.🤔
@@firebearva Indeed. But I guess she was so driven by vengence that she decided to... drown and hopefuly wash up on Middle-Earth, revive, and continue on?
And why there even is a plan B if Morgoth loses ? Wouldn't be that like a treason ? To plan your own ambition/raise to power while counting on your bosses defeat ? I would understand plan to get out Morgoth out of the "prison" but this doesn't make any sense to me And whom is the message addressed to ? There are presumably just a few evil creatures able to read written black speech as it uses elvish letters AFAIK
I don't think anyone who created or developed this show actually wanted to do it for any other reason than being employed. Imagine if you worked at Amazon Studios as an executive and this landed on your desk. Your ignorant boss, cough Bezos, tasks you with a project that you know can't be done legitimately but you have to do it anyway, cough Lindsey Weber. This show has no beating heart.
It is unfair to say, in reference to pointed Elvish ears, "they did it for the heck of it." Peter Jackson created an audience expectation of pointed ears, and 'ordinary' ears would have created a lot of dissatisfaction and even confusion. And there is some evidence, as you know perfectly well, that Tolkien imagined his elves with more 'leaf-like' ears, including the link in The Etymologies between the root LAS- for both 'leaf' and 'hear'. Note Amon Lhaw, the hill of hearing. My complaint is that they have lazily made the ears the _only_ distinctive feature of the elves, like some kind of roleplaying game class - not their height, their grace, beardlessness (which continued in the line of Númenorean kings) or the light of Valinor in the eyes of the Noldor. This allows 5'4" Galadriel to hide her ears for a short time, and the southern men to use childish epithets like 'pointies' and 'knife-ears'.
"Leaf-like" says "pointed" to me, so I have zero problem with pointed ears on elves. And giving all Men (as in male humans) beards is really becoming a pet peeve of mine. I get that it's super-easy visual shorthand, but someone should try not taking the low-hanging fruit just for once!
Diminishes the elves, they have keen eyeseight but can't see a whole forest getting torn down from a tower, then ircs went from not liking the sun to vampires in order for a bad matrix action scene to happen.
This show feels like it’s written by children. Who decided that the massive trench covered in tarp was a good idea? It’s goofy. How does that idea make it past the writing room? It relies heavily on the elves being blind and stupid and it’s incredibly contrived. The hobbits a small, tight knit community will abandon an entire family because of a small inconvenience. Our villain literally gives his enemies a map to his enemies so that they can find him. A billion dollars is being spent on this and that is what they deliver
Indeed but the scary fact is that writers are supposed to be at the top of the line. This makes it even more difficult to understand. How can extremely talented writers fall to his level? 1. Story had no common thread. 2. Most characters have major character flaws, which makes you hate them. Guyladriel is the leading example of course... 3. Plot is full of holes. 4. Characters make decisions no sensible person would ever make. (Jumping in the sea in the middle of nowhere, Hobbits killing their own, Guyladriel willing to let party members die in the cold...) 5. Elves are nothing but humans with pointy ears (lack gracefulness, wisdom...) (Guyladriel again with her bitchy attitude is a prime example. Just compare to her with Galadriel from LOTR). This show was such a letdown. With this money, they should have been able to challenge Game of Thrones. And all this after we willfully ignore the fact that lore and canon were not respected at all.
The harfoots are psychopaths. They will leave you for dead if you fall behind, then remember you later by repeating "we will wait for you" These animals are savages, yet their "hearts are bigger than their feet" WTF?
*Tolkien:* " It is not to be wondered at that he became very unpopular and was shunned (when visible) by all his relations. They kicked him, and he bit their feet. He took to thieving, and going about muttering to himself, and gurgling in his throat. So they called him Gollum, and cursed him, and told him to go far away; and his grandmother, desiring peace, expelled him from the family and turned him out of her hole." *Yeah, we already knew that since the Fellowship -- well at least regarding the early TA Hobbits ~*
Two things. 1, They realized the parallels between Numenor & Atlantis, so they went Greek with their design choices. 2. Galadriel is the most toxic, unlikable & insufferable protagonist depicted on film, since the film Showgirls protagonist Nomi Malone. They’re actually quite similarly written.
@@Coinwalker1 Have you seen Showgirls? Her character is a complete psychopath & while some of the people she deals with are also horrible people, she treats the people who are genuinely nice & trying to help her horribly. Her character is all anger and ambition, with zero social skills, which she should at least be able to fake but she can’t even do that!
@@creatrixZBD when was the last time you watched Showgirls? She’s a psychotic Karen who’s entitled beyond belief. The only difference is she gets naked. Then gets really angry at the people she’s getting naked for.
Not just Greek, I can see Egyptian, Greek and Roman styles, it makes them look as if they do not belong to the same culture. Imagine Eowym with a Greek dress in the middle of the Rohirrim, she would look out of place.
28:46 I'm thinking about this for two days now and have absolutely no idea what is the point. Like zero idea. None! What is the speed of digging this ditch per day? 50 meters? 100 meters? A kilometer? Even if so. During night you can walk a marathon without any problems. So one night you can cover distance 40 times greater than while digging this ditch day and night. And they are digging it all the time as this is a one connected long ditch. Not a ditch at day than running at night and again another ditch during day. And one more thing. Did you ever dig a hole in dirt? There is some strange thing. The exact amount of dirt you dig out you have to put away somewhere. There is none here. Do they eat that teftovers? - Boys, looks like dirt is back on the menu!
Even in the book when Sam took the Ring off Frodo after the spider attack in order to finish the quest, he ultimately realized his place was with Frodo and decided to save him instead. Basically he put the quest in danger to do what was right, but ultimately saved the quest in doing so. That's a huge theme in Tolkien: have the faith to do what's right no matter what, and things will ultimately work out for the best.
On the point of the Mark/map of Mordor - in the very first episode she specifically says about the best elvish minds spent hundreds/thousands of years could not work out what the mark meant... until Galadriel (of course) decided to turn the mark sideways and suddenly it is clear what the mark is like a simple puzzle piece. As for Halbrand, if he is not Sauron I think he may end up being the proto Witch King (unless i'm wrong, his actual identity was not known)
This is a minor thing but crossed my mind regardless. We see Gal wake up on the boat in a blue dress. First, how they have that dress on boat and it fits perfect? Second, we only see a man on that boat. Someone was creepy and dressed her up while she was knocked out.
yes. although they are no new to that. in ep.2 Galadriel sometimes has his brother's dagger attached to a belt, some other times se is without belt, almost naked in her night dress, completely wet, and her hands are empty: where is the dagger? where did she hides it? I can't stop think about it, the answer can only be nasty and embarrassing. one billon dollars and the production forgets about scene props....
I'm literally shaking - when Galadriel defiantly shouts "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" and then saves Luke from the Emperor I was crying. Stunning and brave!
Thanks to you guys , I’m completely behind you , loved the original trilogy, haven’t bothered to tune into ROP, your judgment is enough for me , never read the books and today I purchased the Four-volume boxed-set revised edition of The Lord of the Rings in hardback published in 2014. The crass nature of ROP has inspired me to do a deep dive into the books and experience the world as Tolkien intended, thank you 🙏
Finrod was killed long before the War of Wrath and the defeat of Morgoth (and consequently Sauron). The whole premise of that being the grounds for Galadrielll Thunberg seeking vengeance is already utterly stupid.
21:00 worse thing is that they now, after thousands of years, get to that point that Southern Regions are in danger. Dude, Gal, it is a message from thousands of years ago. It should be already too late for anything. So dumb...
I have a bit of a nitpick : I happened to watch the show with subtitles and at some point, Arondir speaks Elvish and the subtitles tell us that it is Quenya. But as a Silvan Elf, wouldn't he be speaking either Sindarin or the woodland tongue?
I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Orcs all had copies of The Maps Of Middle Earth that they purchased online from Amazon Books. Orcs can be Tolkien fans, too
The horse part seemed like a perfume commercial or something. You notice how those perfume commercials are always really strange and about nothing, like they're a promo for an art house flick about nothing at all.
Regarding Numenor: It looks like Santorini in Greece. With a few hints of colorless Cinque Terre, paired with a helping of Castagneto Carducci, seasoned with Forum Romanum.
I think it's a nice touch to see the Elves greet each other in the traditional way, raising their hands with middle and ring fingers divided and saying, "Live long and prosper."
I simply cannot understand why Amazon's writers decide to go so extreme with characterizing "young" Galadriel. The writers decide that she has to be a strong warrior character, then they go the extreme of making her single handedly handle trolls, while also have to dump down every other elf warrior just to contrast. The writers then remembers that she has to have flaws so that there will be character development, so they decide to go the extreme and make every interaction with people showing her anger, so far as to swipe away any features of nobleness and wisdom. Then they remember that they have to show something that Galadriel does enjoy, and that is the thrill of adventure or something, so they decided to make an unnecessarily long slow motion shot of her smiling for riding a horse. They checked all the boxes, but forgot to mind the details, to make them work together, to become a single, believable, younger version of the original character. They like to say that a story should reflect the real world and yet they don't know to reference real world people to make their characters realistic.
About the symbol/map of Mordor, I think it was originally some thing between Morgoth and Sauron. Like Morgoth telling Sauron to restart there in the case of his failure. Morgoth DID spend lots of his time with menfolk on the East in different moments of History (soon as the Men first awoke, in the beginning, and later when he left his Lieutenant Sauron in charge of his wars), so Morgoth DID know something about the geography of that region.
I really hope that Tar Miriel and Elendil were pretending not to know each other, to try and fool the real ruler of Númenor, Ar Pharazon, that forcefully married Tar Miriel and took the sceptre for himself.
I am deeply saddened that so much exploitation of Tolkien's works has manifested in mass media. I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma. I hungered for college level scholarly programs and studies which would not exist for many years yet.
@@morpilimperdurabo2889 I think I saw Cheap Trick near Duncan at a Casino around there bout 10 years ago. I first read the Hobbit in 5th grade. I just read the Silmarillion though 2 years ago. I've got a bunch left. This TV show breaks my heart.
@@kylewashington1841 yeah, i mean i might have even stomached it if Amazon had said "...look we couldn't get full rights so we're doing a fanfic take on the second age..."
@@morpilimperdurabo2889 As soon as Amazon grabbed it you should have checked out. Cancel your subscription to that awful service and get and and walk around to purchase materials.
After seeing meteorman, the harfoots should have migrated immediately. They could have lost Nori and her family in the commotion. That would have saved 15 minutes of screentime and would have made the harfoots look far less like jerks by leaving people behind on purpose. The only possible way the harfoots can be redeemed at this point is if Nori discovers they are in a bad cult after finding non-nomadic, nice harfoots.
Leaving a mark on someone or some thing when you’ve been there is like the “water bandits” in Home Alone turning on the water to tell everyone that they’ve been there. (I wrote this before this was said in the video. )
What is driving me crazy is that they shredded the established timeline. Mordor was founded in 1000 SA yet, yet they act like it doesn’t exist yet. Miriel and Pharazon lived in ~3200 SA, 1600 years AFTER the rings were made. Amazon should have focused on Númenor’s fall. All this nonsense with Galadriel and Trash Hobbits is not interesting. And the slo-no horse riding? GTFO Amazon.
Tolkien said in a letter about a movie that was a never made that what bothered him the most was the change of the timeline and the personality of the characters. All that this show represents.
I have a hard time believing nobody in a production of this size noted the very poor writing, the glaring logical plot-holes and the general amateurism of the entire thing. We can point at the showrunners but they're not operating in a vacuum. There are the Amazon Prime executives who must, at some point, review the product they've commissioned - before they release it. So is this a case of bubble-thinking, coupled with general incompetence? Or perhaps this, in its current form, is what they intended to create all along. If so, what's the purpose behind producing something this bad and this boring?
When Sauron was taken to Númenor as a prisoner, the Númenorians knew very well of who he was. I really hope that this Halbrand guy is some lesser man, maybe one of those who’ll become one of the Nazgul. If he’s Sauron, then this is all SO stupid…
When Galadriels mood ring finally changed color. I got chills. For real though, anyone that followed Tolkien’s work for any amount of time is choking on vomit watching this crap.
37:59 I sense some kind of fairly twisted reference to Aeneas leaving Anchises behind (on specified orders) or young people born a specific spring migrating when they become adult (like 20), which was a thing with Italic tribes and how Mamertines came to be on Sicily starting the First Punic War. In the first case, there was a real effort from Aeneas to carry his dad, and it didn't work (though, fridge logic : why didn't someone else carry Anchises, when Aeneas had quite a few men?) and in the second case, it's not all of the young people who leave the old behind, it's just a specific year of births, or even just those born in the spring that year, to "control population" and incidentally get allies elsewhere if their sacred springs become successful conquerors.
8:48 Just a little interruption of the discussion, here's on the image. Can ships _sail_ with those masts and sails? I have never seen them outside this fiction, and obviously it is possible to fake the progress of a ship on film, but on the other hand perhaps the foremost sails in the middle could compensate for the lack of sail in the middle on the ones further back?
At one point in the Numenorian court I expected them to burst into song: "I have a structured settlement and I need cash now..." Except the JG Wentworth costumes were better.
38:30 and the same with the second episode when father broke his ankle. We were wondering why he was doing this alone and nobody moved an inch when everything gone wild? There you go! This society is only me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I wonder who can identify with that right now... 🤔 It is an image of modern world, right?
Always appreciate the honesty and the insight, guys! I especially enjoy the fun references to other movies, so thanks for the laughs there 😂 But I think Elendil would do well to listen to Tar Aldarion in Unfinished Tales: "I will go from this misenchanted isle of daydreams, where women in their insolence would have men cringe. I will use my days to some purpose, where I am not scorned, more welcome in honor." Flee the moob armor, Elendil!
I had the brilliant idea to try to enjoy this show as some alternate universe (what if? Arda version type of stuff) But they would still have to not be horrid at writing, dialogue, character development, and getting fans to want to like the protagonist ...
44:41 _"Mediterranean"_ I once said, supposing Middle Earth _were_ Earth (or The Old World - not Americas or Oceania) in a previous era, Mordor would be fairly fine for East Mediterranean, Ithilien or South Ithilien would be great for a combination of what's now Italy and Tunisia.
Samwise Gamgee: I can't carry it for you, but I *can* carry you! Harfoots: Fuck you and your broken foot, you're gonna slow us down Yeah, I'm starting to think the writers didn't lie about the Harfoots not being Hobbits.
The writers of the show seem to have the notion that Galadriel was a simpleton until she got ahold of her Elvish ring. That the fact that she ends up being the most noble and powerful Elf in Middle Earth is only because she has one of the 3 Elvish rings.
I try to Find, in which chapter Galadriel visit Númenor. But I can’t find it. Even in The Nature Of Middle-Earth, Tolkien explain that Galadriel marriage with Celeborn at about the end of the FA. Then Celebrían was born in S.A. 300. So, at this event, she’s already a Mother. But, omg😱, why she act like that ?
I checked out a few credible sources which leaked the information that Halbrand is indeed Sauron in disguise. But we do not know, yet, if Sauron tries to be on the good side at least for a while or if he is completely bad and manages to hoodwink everybody. I guess that the former possibility is more likely to be correct, because the show runners are temped to present Sauron as a real and complete person who has a good side, too. But I would not like such a character arc, because in the time frame of the show Sauron was IMO way past redemption.
Hey guys, love your content! After watching the first two episodes a couple times I had a thought. When the elves were in "Sauron's dungeons" up in Forodwaith, they said something like 'it is so evil here that the torches do not give off any warmth". When Nori fell into the meteor man's crater she said "it's not hot". I know chances are that the meteor man will turn out to be Gandalf, but have any of you thought about this "lack of heat connection"?
Arpharazon was crowned when his uncle died. he forceably married his cousin to get to the throne. He wasnt a fucking counselor to a "diverse" queen. i already fucking hate this show
Why are some people online STILL trying to defend this horrible series? There's this forum, and its moderators are banning lots of people who criticize this series, and lots of the criticism is very legitimate and valid! What is wrong with these Americans, trying to portray something awful as something breathtaking and brilliant?? o_O
Thank you for the recap. The amount of potential wasted in this show is maddening but I appreciate your recaps and how you always bring it back to the actual lore.
I'm just gonna mention this, all the other reviews have complained about how Galadriel has only really shown like one set of emotion and facial expression. This episode she finally smiles and enjoys herself and thats also bad. Was the whole slowmo shot kinda quirky? Sure, but it still looked good and being on the shores of numenor is something to take in.
Not denying that the show is definitely falling flat in certain aspects, but I also really believe there’s a bit of herd mentality going on with the amount of hate it’s getting
I love watching you guys discuss the episodes. I like that there's some disparity in the views, because there are things I (sort of) like about Episode 3. I agree that Elendil is likeable. Galadriel gets worse with each episode, which is hard to imagine. She has zero charisma, doesn't respect anyone around her, and acts like everyone should treat her like royalty. That is not Tolkien's Galadriel, but then again, nothing in this show is Tolkien's except the name of characters and locations. I really do have to put my love of the books in the back of my mind when I watch this and try to give it a fair shot, but it's hard to do: Ar-Pharazon has been reduced to an adviser. Harfoots (Proto Hobbits?) are now just dirty nomads that Tolkien never wrote about. Arondir is a black slave that has to break his chains to gain freedom. Elrond is a speechwriter (for like an audience of ten elves). Adar is some kind of bad guy Tolkien never wrote about. Galadriel is a commander of armies, but she can't keep a dozen elves together on an expedition (after slaying the ice troll that attacked them). It's all so ridiculous, and even if you look past all the lore-breaking, it's still just a horribly written show with subpar acting.
I'm confused. If Tar-Palaintir is still alive, why is Miriel called Tar-Miriel and Pharazon called Ar-Pharazon? They only take the Tar- (and Ar-) prefix when they become king or queen. For example, Vardamir never took the title "Tar-" because he never formally became king but passed it to his son, Tar-Amandil. Hallatan was the regent of Numenor for Tar-Ancalimë. He never took the title of "Tar-." If Tar-Palaintir is still alive, what the heck is going on? There is no indication that he was disabled. I'm confused by this.
I thought it was just bad. But after seeing that tapestry, I think it may be so bad that its good. I couldn't stop laughing at that atrocity. What were they thinking!
@@Lillogicaallegria In fact, I was told that someone said in the show that “it’s been a thousand years since Morgoth was defeated”. That would mean we’re around the year 1.000 of the SA, which makes sense if we consider the storyline in which Celebrimbor is about to be introduced to the Dwarves so they can start working on the Rings of power. But it leaves Elendil totally out of his time, because he is to be born almost 2.000 years AFTER the forging of the Rings! I really feel like I’m going insane here (specially because I see NOBODY stressing this fact out!)
@@TETASARAIVACS YES! YES! I may be wrong (I'm far from an expert) but if I'm remembering right the hate of the numenoreans towards the elves starts AFTER Sauron subtly convince them to rebel to mortality (a gift from Eur himself), THEN envy the elves etc. So...if Sauron is not there yet...why they speaks about elves in that way? How is possible that Sauron is still not yet in Numenor but Isildur is? Why? When? How? They're messing whit our brains because even if they want a new timeline...their script is not capable of do it well and nobody (Tolkien fan AND casual viewers) understand what's happening.
@@Lillogicaallegria Yes, Sauron poisoned the minds of most of the Numenoreans against the immortals, and this happened during his stay at Númenor, where he was taken as prisoner by Ar Pharazon after the king brought his huge fleet to the doors of Mordor. Within the first year, Sauron went from prisoner to the most valued assistant to the king. Ar Pharazon was the last king of Númenor, the one who defied the Prohibition of the Valar and landed on the undying lands of Valinor, claiming that HE was the “Lord of the West” (that’s how much Sauron twisted the old king’s mind).
@@TETASARAIVACS thanks, so Sauron has already been there, but apparently he hasn't been there yet ... he's probably there now (Halbrand). great. what a mess.
Galadriel should have guessed the ships destination. There is nothing else in that area. In fact that’s should have been their destination with that little raft sail up and all of that rope pulling
One of you should also try rewriting the worst lines in each episode, just to demonstrate how it could be done. For example, I've been thinking about that first awful bit from Finrod-could be adjusted pretty easily to make sense: Finrod: "The Sea is a dark and dangerous place, Galadriel. Do you know why a ship floats upon it when a stone does not?" Galadriel: {remains silent, since it is obviously more of an object lesson than a literal inquiry} Finrod: "A stone only attacks what it fears, but a ship seeks to harness the very properties that make the Sea threat. We must seek first to understand the darkness lest we be swallowed up in it." Not perfect, but an improvement, I think.
Elendil at this point is the son of Amandil, the (last) Lord of Andunie and leader of the Faithful. The Faithful were those Numenoreans who still revered the Valar and loved the Elves, in opposition to the King's Men. The Lord of Andunie was the Numenorean lord who ruled the region of Andustar in western Numenor. As rulers of one of the major regions of Numenor, the Lords of Andunie were members of the Council of the Sceptre. They were the chief councellors of the Kings of Numenor, and the second most honourable lords in the kingdom. Amandil was a great friend of Ar-Pharazon, who kept Amandil in his Council - even though he was an Elf-friend - when he became King. So, at this point, Elendil is not a nobody, and the Queen of Numenor should know who he is. His father, Amandil, is still Lord of Andunie and member of the Council of the Sceptre. He is stripped of his titles only when Sauron takes power in Numenor, which hasn't happened yet. After the Downfall of Numenor, Elendil would found the Numenorean Realms in Exile (Arnor and Gondor).
20:10 1) Recall the comments on "goblins" (i e orcs) in The Hobbit? They were clever, if not good. Sarrow, to use a very old fashioned adjective that Tolkien kind of revived. So, cartography would not have been beyond them (and especially a very simple cartography like that); 2) If they were using it as a symbol, they could have been "trained" to do so ... you know, like you get a whiplash if the middle stroke is just too long and just too short?
"The moment we feared. The elf has arrived." Every part of the writing is so lazy and broken. Look at these two sentences. They mean nothing strung together. Miriel isn't saying that she FEARS the elf, who has arrived, she's saying that she fears... something about what the elf's arrival portends. But if Miriel is committed to a fight against evil anyway, what's to fear? You would be RELIEVED that the elf has arrived, at least now you can act. The sentences are strung together such because it's just the cheapest, easiest, A -to-B way possible to breed tension. You might WONDER why Miriel fears the elf's arrival and be on board with her supposed fear... unless you're actually trying to, you know, enjoy some storytelling, in which case Miriel's line is such bargain basement melodrama that you feel like you're supposed to pat the writers on the head and give them a cookie and tell them to go play outside with their billion-dollar swords.
I have an idea! Allie Beth Stuckey has similar looks to the Galadriel of the Netflix series, _and_ she has more grace even when being acid, so how about letting her re-write the part of Galadriel for the producers? Example, a little before 29:55 in this one: ruclips.net/video/0lpjWS1UH5U/видео.html
Would you rather be a Harfoot constantly worrying about being left for dead, or one of Galadriel’s assigned retinue worrying about her leaving you in the ice mountains?
Numenor design is probably them trying to imagine Carthage since Carthaginians are also a seafaring civilization which also coincidentally was in the Mediterranean
Even if I wasn't annoyed with how much they've changed Tolkien's characters and stories already, the incredibly weird directing decisions are head-scratching (to put it mildly). The slow-motion, the harfoots heartless tradition, the orcs digging a random giant ditch to find something... is there NO ONE with a critical eye there?! I think this show will only get worse.
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Why does she need a ship's passage when she's perfectly capable of swimming it.
Wasn't that her original plan? Take the boat to Valinor, put on her nightgown and jump out at the last minute, then swim back to Middle Earth.
Yes, the bad writing and the silly directing decisions are weird - and now we also have one of the worst CGI creatures: a tiny warg who is as scary as an oversized chihuahua! Could it be a juvenile warg who strayed from it's pack and got lost in the orc trenches???
The show is allegedly the most expensive TV project ever. But Amazon was not able to hire a competent crew of writers and special-effect experts. These narrative deficits, the silly dialogues and the overall weird and artificial look of the show are dealbreakers for me. These blunders are IMO far worse than a few black guys amongst the elves, dwarves and hobbits - although it would have been nice if the writers would have provided us with an interesting back story of these characters instead of just randomly inserting a few non-caucasians into the show in order to meet the political-correctness quota.
I think that Tolkien would not have categorically rejected the idea of black elves, dwarves or hobbits. The rules of Tolkien's universe were not at all written in stone, and he said later in his life that he regretted not to have created more significant female protagonists or a few good Haradrim. But if someone would have asked Tolkien to develop the character of a black elf, he would have provided us with some interesting background information which would explain why Arondir didn't look like the other elves, and how this difference might have shaped his personality. Galadriel was certainly not the only elf who was mobbed as a kid. These details were important for Tolkien! But the show runners couldn't be bothered.
The overall lack of original and creative ideas is flabbergasting, and I really don't think that the first season can be salvaged! The show runners should take a long and hard look at their material in order to improve the next seasons. But this is only possible if they invite competent Tolkien experts, and if they are willing to listen to honest criticism.
The Tolkien Estate have veto rights, so I assume they're all ok with the show.
@@Wintertalent , we don´t know a lot about the persons behind the current Tolkien estate. Christopher Tolkien would have never allowed this stuff.
I am not saying that Christopher Tolkien´s opinions were always helpful. He disliked Peter Jackson´s LOTR trilogy immensely and saw no merits whatsoever in these movies. Most Tolkien fans disagreed with Christopher Tolkien as far as the LOTR trilogy is concerned. But he was passionate about the legacy of his father. I have no idea about the younger generation of the Tolkien estate, and we don´t know how closely they have been involved in the production of ROP.
@@sabineb.5616 Well, we kind of do. The Tolkien Estate is now run by Christopher's wife (who formerly ran it with him), and two of J.R.R.'s grandsons: Simon (Christopher's son) and Michael (Tolkien's other son's son).
Simon is also credited on the show as a consultant.
Love the show or hate it, the Tolkiens seem to be heavily involved with it.
We live in a world where people will only give honest feed back digitally. No one sat down and told those responsible how bad this was. Wait, Shippy did and he got fired.
They still named dropped Tom Shippey on stage at the Comic-Con in front of sell-out Stephen Colbert. This already one year after firing him for talking about the show and seeking an excuse to throw him overboard.... Just showing how classy they find their own soullessness.
Yes, I really don't understand who was so dumb to green-light this crap!! But the dismissal of Tom Shippey probably eliminated the last expert who would've given the show runners an honest feedback.
and then that feedback was ignored under the guise of racism
What happened to the days when critics were feared? Remember the scathing reviews that Ebert and Siskel would give films. And studios didn't annoy them because their bad press could kill a movie!
Although check Eberts own site, and clearly after his death the replacement critics are aligned with the studios. As I'm sure Roger wouldn't have given The Last Jedi 4 stars?!?! And is now being used to power downtown Chicago!
We need critics that we can trust again. Not reviewers who give their scoops after receiving their goodie bags!
yeah, exactly. they dont care about that stuff. they are taking over and anyone that disagrees must be removed and silenced.
Amazon succeeded in making the cow with black milk the most interesting character in this show.
Also, why isnt Galadriel just swimming back to Middle Earth from Numenor since apparently she can do it from the Undying Lands?
What I have learned about this show is that the script writers have no idea about anything that is not cheap, wanton drama. They had a whole worldbuilding done and they swept ot off the table because they thought they could do it better. But they replaced it with ridiculous plot points that are there only because they serve the story they have concocted. They don't even know how basic human psychology works, or diplomacy, or politics. Hell, they can't even google "why a boat floats" to find a competent allegory to put into paper.
It like reading the fanfict of a pretentious teenager who has only watched teen dramas all his/her life and wants to sound poetic and deep.
That would still be a better show than this garbage
It does sound like a pretentious teenager thinking he knows better than anyone else.. also, she ACTS like a teenager. She's not mature. She acts spoiled, arrogant and smug. I don't think there is anywhere you can get the Galadriel of the books from this immature brat.
This is what it is when modern creators, or rather corporations, focus only on "the message" and have absolutely no knowledge and skills in creating movies or TV series.
@@corrazoneone419 modern corporations have served to inspire me to start my own cultural arts company.
I mean, that's basically what these people are.
When Isildur says, "But father, I don't want land. I want.... to sing!" I got chills. Breathtaking 10/10.
I was shaken to the core when Galadriel said: “May the Woke be with you.” - so brave and beautiful! Instant Tolkien classic. I can't stop crying! 10 out of 10
I was also moved when she threw her tampon at the orc and replaced it mid air after jumping on a sword. Such a strong independent woman right there, I am inspired by her strength and bravery 🤩🙏especially during such trying times🩸🩸
I know right!
I don't know why all the fascists, racist, misogynists who hate this show don't listen to A multi billion dollar corporation that made its fortune bankrupting small businesses and employing people like modern day indentured servants.
After all they are led by an incredibly moral man who came back from his private space flight just to let us know that we should eat plants and insects and take cold showers or his hundred million plus new coastal property might get flooded.
If you weren't such fascists you would know that billion dollar big tech in collusion with corporate media and the deep state who vilify and censor all critics should know what authoritarian fascist look like, and that is people like you with your free speech and delusions of democracy.
And it so racist not to want people employed or excluded on the basis of their skin color alone, that is why we need Identity politics so that this kind of discrimination is innate within society to make it more just.
Finally who but a man with their toxic masculinity would dislike a wonderful strong women such as 5'8" multimillionaire actress who doesn't know the price of milk and has never cooked a meal washed a dish in her life?
She is the perfect cast for a warrior and dignitary who has seen death and destruction beyond comprehension and swallowed it hole and spat it out.
And Gladriel is the example of female grace and strength we all know every 4th wave feminist harnesses, bitter, self obsessed, wilfully ignorant, conceited and arrogant, what is there not to love about this character?
And when she said, "Huan, I don't think we're in Forlindon anymore."
By the ending of the 2nd episode: “well, he cannot be Elendil, cause he was born almost 2000 years after that”, and it turned out it was him.
By the end of the 3rd episode: “Halbrand cannot be Sauron because Sauron was imprisoned in Númenor after Ar Pharazon attacked Mordor”, and turns out he could actually be Sauron.
By this pace, the “Rocket Man” could actually be Gandalf (because it doesn’t matter what the lore says)
When I saw the trailer, I try so hard to keep in my mind that isn’t true.
But, omg😱, it’s probably happened like what u said ( also what I think ). 😭😭😭
I was telling my buddies this, the timeline which wouldn’t even be hard to follow is so out of wack! It’s extremely difficult to watch, along with all these ridiculous plots/scenes.
Your captain delivered us from certain death and then she wants a ship, amazing, so why can't she just take another swim? The slo-mo horse ride could have been a 1980's ad for Tampax.
The captain rescued them from certain death, which means that as the raft was the best source of survival prior to the ship showing up, she genuinely thought she was going to die when she decided to swim back to Middle-Earth
Or an add for a vibrator lol
@@Gorbz Any SANE person would have thought of their odds of survival before they intentionally jumped overboard several thousand miles from the coast of Middle Earth.🤔
@@firebearva Indeed. But I guess she was so driven by vengence that she decided to... drown and hopefuly wash up on Middle-Earth, revive, and continue on?
@@Gorbz 🙄😊
“Your captain saved us from certain death” - Galadriel
So she jumped off that boat willingly to her certain death? F this show.
I don't want to go to Valinor, so I am going to kill myself, and then I will end up in Valinor...
Hahahaha ..
I’m agree with u for this.
This show suck ! 🤮
She acts as if she ended in the water by accident🤣
I'm convinced she didn't know the camera was rolling when she was smiling.
We now know how she will defeat Sauron: by smiling at him.
Why did Sauron leave a map of his future empire on Finrod's body? Let me tell my enemies my plan!
Because this show is stupid beyond comprehension🤷♂️
Let's give the heroes my plans... classic cartoon villain.
If he's been hiding for how long why would he tell Galadriel his master plan ? 🙈
And why there even is a plan B if Morgoth loses ? Wouldn't be that like a treason ? To plan your own ambition/raise to power while counting on your bosses defeat ? I would understand plan to get out Morgoth out of the "prison" but this doesn't make any sense to me
And whom is the message addressed to ? There are presumably just a few evil creatures able to read written black speech as it uses elvish letters AFAIK
That was a map? I thought it was the Hell's Kitchen logo on it's side 😂
Why put it on a sword?
“Certain death” but she jumped into “certain death” in the last episode …that’s compelling writing.
Indeed. Why on earth is she requesting "ship's passage"? She has her Sub-Mariner powers, after all.
I don't think anyone who created or developed this show actually wanted to do it for any other reason than being employed. Imagine if you worked at Amazon Studios as an executive and this landed on your desk. Your ignorant boss, cough Bezos, tasks you with a project that you know can't be done legitimately but you have to do it anyway, cough Lindsey Weber. This show has no beating heart.
Harfoot's culture:
Episode 2: "This firefly died, noooo, sob sob"
Episode 3: "IF YOU FALL BEHIND YOU SHALL DIE ALONE!!!"
The *Elven-wardens also failed to notice that the *Orcs "ransack village after village" in the lands they were watching over...
They also failed to notice a huge trench that scars the landscape for miles and miles.
They do work for the state, and we know all state employees really don't do much
@@spacejunk2186 and the smoke.
It is unfair to say, in reference to pointed Elvish ears, "they did it for the heck of it." Peter Jackson created an audience expectation of pointed ears, and 'ordinary' ears would have created a lot of dissatisfaction and even confusion. And there is some evidence, as you know perfectly well, that Tolkien imagined his elves with more 'leaf-like' ears, including the link in The Etymologies between the root LAS- for both 'leaf' and 'hear'. Note Amon Lhaw, the hill of hearing.
My complaint is that they have lazily made the ears the _only_ distinctive feature of the elves, like some kind of roleplaying game class - not their height, their grace, beardlessness (which continued in the line of Númenorean kings) or the light of Valinor in the eyes of the Noldor. This allows 5'4" Galadriel to hide her ears for a short time, and the southern men to use childish epithets like 'pointies' and 'knife-ears'.
they look like Vulcans that have wandered onto the wrong set ...
Beardlessness continued in all the descendants of Elros, including the line of Elendil. But everyone keeps giving them beards.
"Leaf-like" says "pointed" to me, so I have zero problem with pointed ears on elves. And giving all Men (as in male humans) beards is really becoming a pet peeve of mine. I get that it's super-easy visual shorthand, but someone should try not taking the low-hanging fruit just for once!
Tolkien said they have pointed ears, but I'm pretty sure it was better and more natural that the ones of the show🤣
The orc trench is a metaphor for the show. It's meandering, with no apparent purpose or goal, and laying waste to the landscape [lore].
Nice. The show is so meta. Amazon is literally Sauron during the 2nd age.
The orc trench is an ingenious way for the orcs to smuggle the addictive spice melange across the border. After the Elves built a wall.
Brilliant!!! That's it in a nutshell!!!
Diminishes the elves, they have keen eyeseight but can't see a whole forest getting torn down from a tower, then ircs went from not liking the sun to vampires in order for a bad matrix action scene to happen.
And it runs itself into a dead end.
This show feels like it’s written by children. Who decided that the massive trench covered in tarp was a good idea? It’s goofy. How does that idea make it past the writing room? It relies heavily on the elves being blind and stupid and it’s incredibly contrived. The hobbits a small, tight knit community will abandon an entire family because of a small inconvenience. Our villain literally gives his enemies a map to his enemies so that they can find him. A billion dollars is being spent on this and that is what they deliver
It’s amateur hour
Narcissists are in fact children inside who never completed separation and individuation from their mothers.
Yes, the map thing is so damn stupid... and the harfoots don't they have wagons? So they can carry things/people... or only grass?
Indeed but the scary fact is that writers are supposed to be at the top of the line. This makes it even more difficult to understand. How can extremely talented writers fall to his level?
1. Story had no common thread. 2. Most characters have major character flaws, which makes you hate them. Guyladriel is the leading example of course... 3. Plot is full of holes. 4. Characters make decisions no sensible person would ever make. (Jumping in the sea in the middle of nowhere, Hobbits killing their own, Guyladriel willing to let party members die in the cold...) 5. Elves are nothing but humans with pointy ears (lack gracefulness, wisdom...) (Guyladriel again with her bitchy attitude is a prime example. Just compare to her with Galadriel from LOTR).
This show was such a letdown. With this money, they should have been able to challenge Game of Thrones. And all this after we willfully ignore the fact that lore and canon were not respected at all.
The harfoots are psychopaths. They will leave you for dead if you fall behind, then remember you later by repeating "we will wait for you"
These animals are savages, yet their "hearts are bigger than their feet" WTF?
I want it to turn out that they are 'remembered' in other ways by _hungry_ *harfoots...
And Bill Cosby is the harfoots sadistic leader.
*Tolkien:* " It is not to be wondered at that he became very unpopular and was shunned (when visible) by all his relations. They kicked him, and he bit their feet. He took to thieving, and going about muttering to himself, and gurgling in his throat. So they called him Gollum, and cursed him, and told him to go far away; and his grandmother, desiring peace, expelled him from the family and turned him out of her hole." *Yeah, we already knew that since the Fellowship -- well at least regarding the early TA Hobbits ~*
I hope Numenor scarifices them for Morgoth later. These cultish devils deserve to be colonized.
They represent the diversity SJW community: both WILL abandon who doesn’t ‘keep up’ with their caravan of crazy.
Two things.
1, They realized the parallels between Numenor & Atlantis, so they went Greek with their design choices.
2. Galadriel is the most toxic, unlikable & insufferable protagonist depicted on film, since the film Showgirls protagonist Nomi Malone. They’re actually quite similarly written.
I liked clunky, one-dimensional Naomi Malone tho.
Cranky Karen from eleven management? Nope
@TheStacanova please expand on parallels between Galadriel and Showgirls protag.
@@Coinwalker1 Have you seen Showgirls?
Her character is a complete psychopath & while some of the people she deals with are also horrible people, she treats the people who are genuinely nice & trying to help her horribly.
Her character is all anger and ambition, with zero social skills, which she should at least be able to fake but she can’t even do that!
@@creatrixZBD when was the last time you watched Showgirls? She’s a psychotic Karen who’s entitled beyond belief.
The only difference is she gets naked.
Then gets really angry at the people she’s getting naked for.
Not just Greek, I can see Egyptian, Greek and Roman styles, it makes them look as if they do not belong to the same culture. Imagine Eowym with a Greek dress in the middle of the Rohirrim, she would look out of place.
28:46 I'm thinking about this for two days now and have absolutely no idea what is the point. Like zero idea. None!
What is the speed of digging this ditch per day? 50 meters? 100 meters? A kilometer? Even if so. During night you can walk a marathon without any problems. So one night you can cover distance 40 times greater than while digging this ditch day and night. And they are digging it all the time as this is a one connected long ditch. Not a ditch at day than running at night and again another ditch during day.
And one more thing. Did you ever dig a hole in dirt? There is some strange thing. The exact amount of dirt you dig out you have to put away somewhere. There is none here. Do they eat that teftovers?
- Boys, looks like dirt is back on the menu!
Apparently they throw all this dirt on the Harfoots.
it's a Naked Gun 3 prison break remake (where they hide the terrain literally EVERYWHERE)
@@Lillogicaallegria 🤣
Aren't the Harfoots the antithesis of what is conveyed by Sam in Peter Jackson at the end of Return of the King? (not leaving Frodo but carrying him)
Yes
Instead of Sam carrying Frodo up Mt. Doom he just abandons him like "Sorry Bro🤷"
Pretty much. They really wanted to make sure we knew these are not Hobbits.
Even in the book when Sam took the Ring off Frodo after the spider attack in order to finish the quest, he ultimately realized his place was with Frodo and decided to save him instead. Basically he put the quest in danger to do what was right, but ultimately saved the quest in doing so. That's a huge theme in Tolkien: have the faith to do what's right no matter what, and things will ultimately work out for the best.
@@williamshott4340 NOBODY LEFT BEHIND BUT NNOBODY WALKS ALONE ....just gives the ring to gollum and carries frodo home
On the point of the Mark/map of Mordor - in the very first episode she specifically says about the best elvish minds spent hundreds/thousands of years could not work out what the mark meant... until Galadriel (of course) decided to turn the mark sideways and suddenly it is clear what the mark is like a simple puzzle piece.
As for Halbrand, if he is not Sauron I think he may end up being the proto Witch King (unless i'm wrong, his actual identity was not known)
This is a minor thing but crossed my mind regardless. We see Gal wake up on the boat in a blue dress. First, how they have that dress on boat and it fits perfect? Second, we only see a man on that boat. Someone was creepy and dressed her up while she was knocked out.
does it have to be creepy? if she needed to be changed because freezing at night in wet rags is it bad? ever had surgery and wake up changed? jeez.
I mean, who wouldn't?
@@xxxDAZBOxxx Depends on whether the dress belonged to one of the men. That's creepy in it's own right.
@@xxxDAZBOxxx why so serioussss?
It was a joke.
yes. although they are no new to that. in ep.2 Galadriel sometimes has his brother's dagger attached to a belt, some other times se is without belt, almost naked in her night dress, completely wet, and her hands are empty: where is the dagger? where did she hides it? I can't stop think about it, the answer can only be nasty and embarrassing.
one billon dollars and the production forgets about scene props....
I'm literally shaking - when Galadriel defiantly shouts "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" and then saves Luke from the Emperor I was crying. Stunning and brave!
I happy that cameraman found slow motion and how to blur. 😂
Biljon dollars get so little these days.
It sucks so bad. I can’t believe it. The No look troll stab Solidified it for me
Fun Fact: All elves in the library tapestry (except for Elrond) have long hair.
barber shops were just becoming a thing
Like any bad crime drama, there is literally an evidence dungeon that explains the bad guy's motives/plans.
Thanks to you guys , I’m completely behind you , loved the original trilogy, haven’t bothered to tune into ROP, your judgment is enough for me , never read the books and today I purchased the Four-volume boxed-set revised edition of The Lord of the Rings in hardback published in 2014. The crass nature of ROP has inspired me to do a deep dive into the books and experience the world as Tolkien intended, thank you 🙏
Finrod was killed long before the War of Wrath and the defeat of Morgoth (and consequently Sauron). The whole premise of that being the grounds for Galadrielll Thunberg seeking vengeance is already utterly stupid.
21:00 worse thing is that they now, after thousands of years, get to that point that Southern Regions are in danger. Dude, Gal, it is a message from thousands of years ago. It should be already too late for anything.
So dumb...
I have a bit of a nitpick : I happened to watch the show with subtitles and at some point, Arondir speaks Elvish and the subtitles tell us that it is Quenya. But as a Silvan Elf, wouldn't he be speaking either Sindarin or the woodland tongue?
well, they said most of the elvish language is made up, so...🤣
I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Orcs all had copies of The Maps Of Middle Earth that they purchased online from Amazon Books. Orcs can be Tolkien fans, too
The horse part seemed like a perfume commercial or something. You notice how those perfume commercials are always really strange and about nothing, like they're a promo for an art house flick about nothing at all.
Regarding Numenor: It looks like Santorini in Greece. With a few hints of colorless Cinque Terre, paired with a helping of Castagneto Carducci, seasoned with Forum Romanum.
Comparing Sauron having to leave his mark everywhere to the Wet Bandits in Home Alone = hilarious!
I think it's a nice touch to see the Elves greet each other in the traditional way, raising their hands with middle and ring fingers divided and saying, "Live long and prosper."
I simply cannot understand why Amazon's writers decide to go so extreme with characterizing "young" Galadriel.
The writers decide that she has to be a strong warrior character, then they go the extreme of making her single handedly handle trolls, while also have to dump down every other elf warrior just to contrast.
The writers then remembers that she has to have flaws so that there will be character development, so they decide to go the extreme and make every interaction with people showing her anger, so far as to swipe away any features of nobleness and wisdom.
Then they remember that they have to show something that Galadriel does enjoy, and that is the thrill of adventure or something, so they decided to make an unnecessarily long slow motion shot of her smiling for riding a horse.
They checked all the boxes, but forgot to mind the details, to make them work together, to become a single, believable, younger version of the original character. They like to say that a story should reflect the real world and yet they don't know to reference real world people to make their characters realistic.
About the symbol/map of Mordor, I think it was originally some thing between Morgoth and Sauron.
Like Morgoth telling Sauron to restart there in the case of his failure.
Morgoth DID spend lots of his time with menfolk on the East in different moments of History (soon as the Men first awoke, in the beginning, and later when he left his Lieutenant Sauron in charge of his wars), so Morgoth DID know something about the geography of that region.
With the feet of the statues being underwater as they sail in, it's reassuring that sea-level rise arrived on middle-earth before the actual earth.
I really hope that Tar Miriel and Elendil were pretending not to know each other, to try and fool the real ruler of Númenor, Ar Pharazon, that forcefully married Tar Miriel and took the sceptre for himself.
I am deeply saddened that so much exploitation of Tolkien's works has manifested in mass media. I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma. I hungered for college level scholarly programs and studies which would not exist for many years yet.
Which town? I grew up in Fort Gibson. Late 80s early 90s.
@@kylewashington1841 Wow! I grew up in Duncan - one time HQ of Halliburton I graduated in 1984.
@@morpilimperdurabo2889 I think I saw Cheap Trick near Duncan at a Casino around there bout 10 years ago. I first read the Hobbit in 5th grade. I just read the Silmarillion though 2 years ago. I've got a bunch left. This TV show breaks my heart.
@@kylewashington1841 yeah, i mean i might have even stomached it if Amazon had said "...look we couldn't get full rights so we're doing a fanfic take on the second age..."
@@morpilimperdurabo2889 As soon as Amazon grabbed it you should have checked out. Cancel your subscription to that awful service and get and and walk around to purchase materials.
After seeing meteorman, the harfoots should have migrated immediately. They could have lost Nori and her family in the commotion. That would have saved 15 minutes of screentime and would have made the harfoots look far less like jerks by leaving people behind on purpose.
The only possible way the harfoots can be redeemed at this point is if Nori discovers they are in a bad cult after finding non-nomadic, nice harfoots.
Leaving a mark on someone or some thing when you’ve been there is like the “water bandits” in Home Alone turning on the water to tell everyone that they’ve been there. (I wrote this before this was said in the video. )
What is driving me crazy is that they shredded the established timeline. Mordor was founded in 1000 SA yet, yet they act like it doesn’t exist yet. Miriel and Pharazon lived in ~3200 SA, 1600 years AFTER the rings were made.
Amazon should have focused on Númenor’s fall. All this nonsense with Galadriel and Trash Hobbits is not interesting. And the slo-no horse riding? GTFO Amazon.
Tolkien said in a letter about a movie that was a never made that what bothered him the most was the change of the timeline and the personality of the characters. All that this show represents.
I have a hard time believing nobody in a production of this size noted the very poor writing, the glaring logical plot-holes and the general amateurism of the entire thing. We can point at the showrunners but they're not operating in a vacuum. There are the Amazon Prime executives who must, at some point, review the product they've commissioned - before they release it. So is this a case of bubble-thinking, coupled with general incompetence? Or perhaps this, in its current form, is what they intended to create all along. If so, what's the purpose behind producing something this bad and this boring?
yeah iirc even PJ had a corporate suit overseeing him during the final edit in 'making of' footage. No idea if his input made things better or worse.
I´m pretty sure it was on purpose, there's no way they can do a horrible show like this without noticing that nothing makes sense.
At 28:00, why is there still one tree left?
Camoflage......
It's not a prophecy, Galadriel just has a reputation for being a headache.
When Sauron was taken to Númenor as a prisoner, the Númenorians knew very well of who he was.
I really hope that this Halbrand guy is some lesser man, maybe one of those who’ll become one of the Nazgul.
If he’s Sauron, then this is all SO stupid…
And that’s happened in SA 3262 after he makes the ring , destroy Eragion ( SA 1693-1701) & slain Celebrimbor. 😅😅😅
My favourite part is when galadriel finally said"its a pirate life for me, mate,," when she commits a mutiny on the ship
When Galadriels mood ring finally changed color. I got chills.
For real though, anyone that followed Tolkien’s work for any amount of time is choking on vomit watching this crap.
37:59 I sense some kind of fairly twisted reference to Aeneas leaving Anchises behind (on specified orders) or young people born a specific spring migrating when they become adult (like 20), which was a thing with Italic tribes and how Mamertines came to be on Sicily starting the First Punic War.
In the first case, there was a real effort from Aeneas to carry his dad, and it didn't work (though, fridge logic : why didn't someone else carry Anchises, when Aeneas had quite a few men?) and in the second case, it's not all of the young people who leave the old behind, it's just a specific year of births, or even just those born in the spring that year, to "control population" and incidentally get allies elsewhere if their sacred springs become successful conquerors.
8:48 Just a little interruption of the discussion, here's on the image.
Can ships _sail_ with those masts and sails?
I have never seen them outside this fiction, and obviously it is possible to fake the progress of a ship on film, but on the other hand perhaps the foremost sails in the middle could compensate for the lack of sail in the middle on the ones further back?
At one point in the Numenorian court I expected them to burst into song: "I have a structured settlement and I need cash now..." Except the JG Wentworth costumes were better.
"Iit's not a sigil, it's a map!" is the sort of line that gets stupider the more you think about it.
38:30 and the same with the second episode when father broke his ankle. We were wondering why he was doing this alone and nobody moved an inch when everything gone wild? There you go! This society is only me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
I wonder who can identify with that right now... 🤔 It is an image of modern world, right?
Always appreciate the honesty and the insight, guys! I especially enjoy the fun references to other movies, so thanks for the laughs there 😂 But I think Elendil would do well to listen to Tar Aldarion in Unfinished Tales: "I will go from this misenchanted isle of daydreams, where women in their insolence would have men cringe. I will use my days to some purpose, where I am not scorned, more welcome in honor." Flee the moob armor, Elendil!
I had the brilliant idea to try to enjoy this show as some alternate universe (what if? Arda version type of stuff)
But they would still have to not be horrid at writing, dialogue, character development, and getting fans to want to like the protagonist ...
44:41 _"Mediterranean"_
I once said, supposing Middle Earth _were_ Earth (or The Old World - not Americas or Oceania) in a previous era, Mordor would be fairly fine for East Mediterranean, Ithilien or South Ithilien would be great for a combination of what's now Italy and Tunisia.
Samwise Gamgee: I can't carry it for you, but I *can* carry you!
Harfoots: Fuck you and your broken foot, you're gonna slow us down
Yeah, I'm starting to think the writers didn't lie about the Harfoots not being Hobbits.
So, Elves are dumb. Hobbits are vicious little psychopaths and Dwarfs are Scottish comedic relief. I hope Sauron kills them all.
Best comment yet in any reviews I've watched.
Dwarves*
and Hobbits are Irish comedic relief/racist sterotypes ...
PUBLIC NOTICE: The Sisyphean has won this thread. You may all go home now.
can we give a mention to the horse in the slo mo scene stealing the scene from the actress,damn give that horse its own shampoo commercial🤣
@23:50 I'm afraid he's going to be revealed as Sauron. The "hint" they gave about him wanting so bad to be a smith is quite telling.
The writers of the show seem to have the notion that Galadriel was a simpleton until she got ahold of her Elvish ring.
That the fact that she ends up being the most noble and powerful Elf in Middle Earth is only because she has one of the 3 Elvish rings.
no. the writers are just simpletons. its all they can write.
Another "Things just happen" episode with lots of setup, zero payoffs, and lots of contrivances.
Shit. I know what's going on. Galadriel is Sauron. Sauron is Galadriel. They used magic to switch bodies!!!!
How can 3 hours of a Show Go by & the Story Go Absolutely NOWHERE ?😴😴😴😴😴
Celeborn identifies as a horse in this.
I try to Find, in which chapter Galadriel visit Númenor.
But I can’t find it. Even in The Nature Of Middle-Earth, Tolkien explain that Galadriel marriage with Celeborn at about the end of the FA.
Then Celebrían was born in S.A. 300.
So, at this event, she’s already a Mother. But, omg😱, why she act like that ?
Man that tapestry at 16:54 looks terrible 😂 almost feels like they had modern artists thinking it actualy looks good
May I remind you that tapestry is the most expensive water color paint by numbers tapestry! 🤭🤭🤭😂
He is Sauron. The reddit leak (from over a month ago) so far has been perfectly correct for 3 episodes.
I checked out a few credible sources which leaked the information that Halbrand is indeed Sauron in disguise. But we do not know, yet, if Sauron tries to be on the good side at least for a while or if he is completely bad and manages to hoodwink everybody. I guess that the former possibility is more likely to be correct, because the show runners are temped to present Sauron as a real and complete person who has a good side, too. But I would not like such a character arc, because in the time frame of the show Sauron was IMO way past redemption.
Hey guys, love your content! After watching the first two episodes a couple times I had a thought. When the elves were in "Sauron's dungeons" up in Forodwaith, they said something like 'it is so evil here that the torches do not give off any warmth". When Nori fell into the meteor man's crater she said "it's not hot". I know chances are that the meteor man will turn out to be Gandalf, but have any of you thought about this "lack of heat connection"?
You guys are my favourite critics of this show. Thank you for doing this and keep them coming.
Arpharazon was crowned when his uncle died. he forceably married his cousin to get to the throne. He wasnt a fucking counselor to a "diverse" queen. i already fucking hate this show
Why are some people online STILL trying to defend this horrible series? There's this forum, and its moderators are banning lots of people who criticize this series, and lots of the criticism is very legitimate and valid! What is wrong with these Americans, trying to portray something awful as something breathtaking and brilliant?? o_O
is it a forum with a very similar name to this channel's?
Halbrand obviously kept the money in his throughout the whole voyage
About salt: it was so valuable that people were paid in salt, hence the word “salary”
Thank you for the recap. The amount of potential wasted in this show is maddening but I appreciate your recaps and how you always bring it back to the actual lore.
Btw the southern kid who finds the magic glowing sword is totally gonna become the witch king
I'm just gonna mention this, all the other reviews have complained about how Galadriel has only really shown like one set of emotion and facial expression. This episode she finally smiles and enjoys herself and thats also bad. Was the whole slowmo shot kinda quirky? Sure, but it still looked good and being on the shores of numenor is something to take in.
They also complain that she doesn’t have a flaw and then the show gives her a flaw and they complain 🤷♂️
Not denying that the show is definitely falling flat in certain aspects, but I also really believe there’s a bit of herd mentality going on with the amount of hate it’s getting
Watching these guys dissect each episode is much more entertaining than the episodes themselves. Amazing.
I've listened to a few of these breakdowns and you guys are the best keep it up looking forward to next one.
I love watching you guys discuss the episodes. I like that there's some disparity in the views, because there are things I (sort of) like about Episode 3. I agree that Elendil is likeable. Galadriel gets worse with each episode, which is hard to imagine. She has zero charisma, doesn't respect anyone around her, and acts like everyone should treat her like royalty. That is not Tolkien's Galadriel, but then again, nothing in this show is Tolkien's except the name of characters and locations. I really do have to put my love of the books in the back of my mind when I watch this and try to give it a fair shot, but it's hard to do:
Ar-Pharazon has been reduced to an adviser. Harfoots (Proto Hobbits?) are now just dirty nomads that Tolkien never wrote about. Arondir is a black slave that has to break his chains to gain freedom. Elrond is a speechwriter (for like an audience of ten elves). Adar is some kind of bad guy Tolkien never wrote about. Galadriel is a commander of armies, but she can't keep a dozen elves together on an expedition (after slaying the ice troll that attacked them). It's all so ridiculous, and even if you look past all the lore-breaking, it's still just a horribly written show with subpar acting.
I'm confused. If Tar-Palaintir is still alive, why is Miriel called Tar-Miriel and Pharazon called Ar-Pharazon? They only take the Tar- (and Ar-) prefix when they become king or queen. For example, Vardamir never took the title "Tar-" because he never formally became king but passed it to his son, Tar-Amandil. Hallatan was the regent of Numenor for Tar-Ancalimë. He never took the title of "Tar-."
If Tar-Palaintir is still alive, what the heck is going on? There is no indication that he was disabled. I'm confused by this.
They don't care if actual fans who know the lore are confused.
Bro, Everything in this show makes me confused. 🤪🤪🤪🥴🥴🥴
The shot at 14:30/31 its just missing the Statue of Liberty!
I thought it was just bad. But after seeing that tapestry, I think it may be so bad that its good. I couldn't stop laughing at that atrocity. What were they thinking!
Probably grandchilds of Tolkien laughing at ppl fighting over a serie that made them millions of dollars for only few pages :P
it was very interesting how the regent does not know who Elendil was. really ? :)
ANYONE please have an idea about WHEN is it all happening?
I’m still trying to place the story in the timeline of Middle Earth
stop do it if you don't want go insane. The timeline is squished, twisted and totally messed up.
@@Lillogicaallegria In fact, I was told that someone said in the show that “it’s been a thousand years since Morgoth was defeated”.
That would mean we’re around the year 1.000 of the SA, which makes sense if we consider the storyline in which Celebrimbor is about to be introduced to the Dwarves so they can start working on the Rings of power. But it leaves Elendil totally out of his time, because he is to be born almost 2.000 years AFTER the forging of the Rings!
I really feel like I’m going insane here (specially because I see NOBODY stressing this fact out!)
@@TETASARAIVACS YES! YES! I may be wrong (I'm far from an expert) but if I'm remembering right the hate of the numenoreans towards the elves starts AFTER Sauron subtly convince them to rebel to mortality (a gift from Eur himself), THEN envy the elves etc. So...if Sauron is not there yet...why they speaks about elves in that way?
How is possible that Sauron is still not yet in Numenor but Isildur is?
Why? When? How? They're messing whit our brains because even if they want a new timeline...their script is not capable of do it well and nobody (Tolkien fan AND casual viewers) understand what's happening.
@@Lillogicaallegria Yes, Sauron poisoned the minds of most of the Numenoreans against the immortals, and this happened during his stay at Númenor, where he was taken as prisoner by Ar Pharazon after the king brought his huge fleet to the doors of Mordor.
Within the first year, Sauron went from prisoner to the most valued assistant to the king.
Ar Pharazon was the last king of Númenor, the one who defied the Prohibition of the Valar and landed on the undying lands of Valinor, claiming that HE was the “Lord of the West” (that’s how much Sauron twisted the old king’s mind).
@@TETASARAIVACS thanks, so Sauron has already been there, but apparently he hasn't been there yet ... he's probably there now (Halbrand). great. what a mess.
Galadriel should have guessed the ships destination. There is nothing else in that area. In fact that’s should have been their destination with that little raft sail up and all of that rope pulling
One of you should also try rewriting the worst lines in each episode, just to demonstrate how it could be done. For example, I've been thinking about that first awful bit from Finrod-could be adjusted pretty easily to make sense:
Finrod: "The Sea is a dark and dangerous place, Galadriel. Do you know why a ship floats upon it when a stone does not?"
Galadriel: {remains silent, since it is obviously more of an object lesson than a literal inquiry}
Finrod: "A stone only attacks what it fears, but a ship seeks to harness the very properties that make the Sea threat. We must seek first to understand the darkness lest we be swallowed up in it."
Not perfect, but an improvement, I think.
Elendil at this point is the son of Amandil, the (last) Lord of Andunie and leader of the Faithful. The Faithful were those Numenoreans who still revered the Valar and loved the Elves, in opposition to the King's Men. The Lord of Andunie was the Numenorean lord who ruled the region of Andustar in western Numenor. As rulers of one of the major regions of Numenor, the Lords of Andunie were members of the Council of the Sceptre. They were the chief councellors of the Kings of Numenor, and the second most honourable lords in the kingdom. Amandil was a great friend of Ar-Pharazon, who kept Amandil in his Council - even though he was an Elf-friend - when he became King.
So, at this point, Elendil is not a nobody, and the Queen of Numenor should know who he is. His father, Amandil, is still Lord of Andunie and member of the Council of the Sceptre. He is stripped of his titles only when Sauron takes power in Numenor, which hasn't happened yet.
After the Downfall of Numenor, Elendil would found the Numenorean Realms in Exile (Arnor and Gondor).
20:10 1) Recall the comments on "goblins" (i e orcs) in The Hobbit? They were clever, if not good. Sarrow, to use a very old fashioned adjective that Tolkien kind of revived. So, cartography would not have been beyond them (and especially a very simple cartography like that);
2) If they were using it as a symbol, they could have been "trained" to do so ... you know, like you get a whiplash if the middle stroke is just too long and just too short?
"The moment we feared. The elf has arrived."
Every part of the writing is so lazy and broken. Look at these two sentences. They mean nothing strung together.
Miriel isn't saying that she FEARS the elf, who has arrived, she's saying that she fears... something about what the elf's arrival portends. But if Miriel is committed to a fight against evil anyway, what's to fear? You would be RELIEVED that the elf has arrived, at least now you can act.
The sentences are strung together such because it's just the cheapest, easiest, A -to-B way possible to breed tension. You might WONDER why Miriel fears the elf's arrival and be on board with her supposed fear... unless you're actually trying to, you know, enjoy some storytelling, in which case Miriel's line is such bargain basement melodrama that you feel like you're supposed to pat the writers on the head and give them a cookie and tell them to go play outside with their billion-dollar swords.
I have an idea!
Allie Beth Stuckey has similar looks to the Galadriel of the Netflix series, _and_ she has more grace even when being acid, so how about letting her re-write the part of Galadriel for the producers?
Example, a little before 29:55 in this one:
ruclips.net/video/0lpjWS1UH5U/видео.html
Would you rather be a Harfoot constantly worrying about being left for dead, or one of Galadriel’s assigned retinue worrying about her leaving you in the ice mountains?
Numenor design is probably them trying to imagine Carthage since Carthaginians are also a seafaring civilization which also coincidentally was in the Mediterranean