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Why I Don’t Use HDMI Fiber Cables Anymore
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
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I'm shifting away from using HDMI fiber cables in my ATEM live streaming setup. As I moved up to the SDI ATEM switchers, I've been using SDI more and more. HDMI Fiber was nice when the ATEM Mini Pro came out because it gave us longer cable runs but there's a few good reasons to stick with SDI moving forward.
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FYI, Canare is pronounced like the final e is a "ay" -- ca-nare-ay.
Armored LC fiber cables are pretty inexpensive... about $1/meter. And hold up fairly well to abuse.
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For my small operation, HDMI Fiber is perfectly cost effective for me. (Knock on wood) I haven’t had a fiber hdmi cable fail on me. All my cameras are HDMI, call my cables are HDMI, and all my wireless transmitters/recievers are HDMI. I get that SDI is the more Professional route. But for now fiber HDMI has been great and until my business gets to a point where it makes sense to; we will graduate to SDI.
Everyone has to make their decisions based on where they’re at. For me, things grew and SDI made sense. I have a feeling anything beyond this would require fiber or 2110 which I’ve slowly started to add to the mix.
Yes me too. I work with both sdi and cheap fiber-hdmi cables and expected them to fail easy but it just never happened once yet and I use the cables for gigs in all kind of situations. Even outside gigs. I just make sure the cables are in special 'gutters' or under rubber mats where people walk or drive but that has to be done with sdi cables also so there is no difference there.
Most times there is only 1 aes output for high end sources, but for stereo we need 2 speakers.
Each active speaker with a DAC.
Personally, I use generic fibre for all long cable runs. Armoured duplex or uniboot os2 is much cheaper than SDI once you have the converters, and you have a spare core for backup or another signal. Plus we only need to stock a single cable type that can carry whatever we need, network, video, audio, even usb. I just wish more kit had SFP modules that would let you switch between copper and optical.
And sorry, because this isn't a comment on the video at all - completely agree that an SDI chain, whether copper or optical, is superior to HDMI
@@allanclloyds fiber is definitely the next step I’ve also adopted some 2110 for my work. Those converters are just so unnecessarily expensive.
@@zephanmosesyeah I keep an eye on ebay for second hand yellobrik converters, but the blackmagic 12g with 3g SFPs aren't too costly.
The other benefit for us as well is that it's less weight and volume overall to carry a couple dozen converters and fibre than the equivalent in sdi cables, and you can more easily run the thin cables under doors, along skirting boards, etc. Standard plastic os2 is light enough to even be taped to a wall or ceiling in a pinch.
And there are ways to push multiple signals over the same core, e.g. with bidi sfps or multiplexers, which can further extend what you're able to do with cheap cables.
All we use in our portable chuch is SDI. They do wear out but they can easily be rebuilt if you have some basic soldering skills. We use black magic mini converters to go to or from HDMI. The pass through converters don't work that well over long runs. When we do big shows like Easter or Christmas we use an SDI to Ethernet converter so we can send multiple signals over 1 cable. It works out easier when the stage of 100+ feet away from the control room with 5 cameras. We've tried using Tascam wireless systems but they are aggravating to use.
I just got the Blackmagic 2110 for 6 video signals over ethernet. Haven't put it to the test yet but need to break it out soon.
The OG ATEMs couldn't even see a signal if the HDMI was over 25 feet.
HDMI wasn't originally made to go longer than 25ft. That's not an ATEM issue, that's a HDMI issue.
If you're just looking to buy a passive HDMI cable, then your realistic maximum range is around 25ft.
That is about the maximum length for older HDMI cables, like HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4, before you’ll start to see a degradation in signal quality due to attenuation.
Although passive HDMI cables can support distances more than twice that in theory, the environment would need to be practically perfect to not experience severe negative consequences of such a long cable without some sort of active power to counteract the signal degradation.
HDMI 2.1 cables can only go to around 9ft before running into trouble with attenuation.
I've never used HDMI fiber cables just 'cause all the cons you mantioned so cannot tell anything about it. Happy that you finally realized the way to go ;-)
Heh well it was fun while it lasted. Mostly once I switched to SDI switchers there was no need for it.
Honestly surprised it took you so long Zeph! :D Yes, I went through 10m conventional HDMI leads, 25m over Ethernet and then 50m Fibre Optics. All of these would be intermittent. "I'm not spending £80 on a 50m SDI cable!" I would exclaim to myself. My wasted cable money would have paid for one and a convertor! For gawdsake I was already running to an SDI ATEM and had to use convertors anyway to come out of the Ethernet! And 100% on the cable reels!
Great explanation!!! Thanks!!!
Thanks for watching
I am not using SDI cables because of static electricity. In my case I am very happy with optic HDMI, no issue at all. I even can put it right near the power cables where SDI signal will be flickering instantly. And this is the main reason for me.
Interesting. I've never had any issues putting SDI cables near power cables. In fact I do it nearly every day.
I have had similar issues in the past. After much research and playing around, I learnt that the static from our hand held radios we were using for coms, was interfering with the converters and causing this problem. This was in my high schools setup so am definitely looking at alternatives (at least for now) whilst I look to start my own live streaming service
I still am using HDMI from my cameras to my ATEM as 99% of the time my cameras are only HDMI and are close enough for a 10' HDMI cable and those are not an issues. But I checked the cost of those Fiber HDMI cables, and it was the same cost to do 2 bi-directional converters with the 100' SDI cable that the 100' fiber cable would have been.
So for longer cable runs, I agree SDI is the way to go.
But also for a plus, those Blackmagic bi-directional converters work as an HDMI/SDI splitter, so you can use it as HDMI in from the laptop, with HDMI and SDI out for the Projector and your source for the stream.
I am looking at getting a SDI capable camera this year, so I will also be starting that process. Possibly even grabbing the ATEM EXTREAM SDI ISO next.
I typically avoid the bidirectional on a laptop and use the decimator Md-hx because it can scale just to make sure the signals play nice. I’ve had a few bidirectionals give me grief when it comes to laptops.
On the camera side I’m a fan of the Canon XA70 and XA75 (formerly XA50-55)
I think it’s up to what one prefers, most newer streaming guys have hoped for an all in one portable tablet size video switcher for a long time.
I remember around 2010 audio visuals experts saying that an all in one unit can never work as it will fail during live streaming and that BlackMagic and Tricaster were the only way.
I’ve had my reasons as to why I always wanted various video switcher making companies to come up with all in one units.
Now we have the YoloBox doing everything perfectly from action replay, ISO recording, 4 internet sources bonding, SRT, Graphics, Chroma Key, NDI etc that BlackMagic cannot do.
In my opinion the future tech always wins.
I prefer using Hollyland Mars units and YoloBox for all my streaming needs. All fits in my backpack doing all that a client can ever request for.
I’m not a fan of pulling cables be it hdmi or SDI.
I’m starting to look into Mine Media equipment for distant /remote cameras, I got to ignore anything bulky.
Have you seen the Magewell Director Mini? It’s also a newer all in one.
I do live-streaming for community groups, cable runs are 100-150’ max and have been using Cat6 HDMI extenders. Two cameras and computer feed one TV & projector. Does SDI still benefit me being ALL gear is HDMI input/output? (Open to getting sdi switcher & converters if so.)
SDI is still more reliable and if you used an SDI switcher you could just convert back to HDMI before it feeds the TV. It would probably reduce latency by a little bit. One less link in the chain to go wrong. But if your setup is working for you no need to change it.
Does audio signal travels both ways through fibre hdmi??I want to connect my tv box to the hdmi in of the dolby atmos soundbar and the hdmi out(earc) to the arc port of the projector...but i want to know that if i connect ps5 or pc to projector , will i get the dolby atmos sound from my soundbar if i connect my soundbar and projector with fibre hdmi???does the source and target thing applies to only video signals or with audio signals too??
Hmm I’m not sure how a sound bar would work. I’m not familiar with that. Typically hdmi fiber is one directional with a “source” end and a “display” end so the signal usually travels one direction. Is the signal passing through your sound bar to the tv or projector? If that’s the case then maybe it works? Only one way to tell. This simply isn’t a usage case I document on my channel. We use it for live streaming purposes.
What do you think about those slim cable in longer lenght, seen 50' to 100' of those slim cable on amazon and other sites. Any reason not to use them for longer run. cos they are pretty small overall, easy to carry around than normal sdi of same lenght, they could be very bulkky.
Yea I have them. They’re ok but they don’t take a beating long term like SDI can. I think it’s a good in between option for a year or two but the thin cables are especially fragile.
Thanks@@zephanmoses . a year or two of usage is pretty ok, for me, especially cos it saves alot of packing and weight stress.
I have found that many SDI cables on Amazon and elsewhere meet their bandwidth specs (e.g. 3G or 12G) only when used alone. Traditionally, SDI cable runs could be extended out to 300ft at the cable's rated bandwidth. These days, you can only count on an off-brand 100ft 12G-SDI cable to do no more than that, i.e. to transport a 12G video signal 100ft. String two or three of them together, and you'll have to test for yourself whether that extended cable run can reliably support a 12G-SDI signal.
Great video but what HD-SDI cameras are you using? Usually, HD-SDI cameras are more expensive.
Canon XA55, Canon CRN300, Canon CRN500, Canon C200, Sony FX6, etc. I have a Canon C70 that we just use a converter with.
@@zephanmosesGood list. I was wondering what he used too.
I use SDI Cable myself and i am doing an install for a church and they ran HDMI to there projectors and they have a lot of issues with their projectors working. So i am rerunning sdi for them
@@aaronwerner830 curious if it was hdmi fiber optic cable or just long hdmi cables. Lots of times people cheap out and get regular hdmi cables at whatever length and don’t realize it was never designed to be run that far.
@@zephanmoses Regular HDMi, so when i do the install the cables are getting replaced with 3g sdi to prevent furture issues
@@aaronwerner830 I’d still go SDI too so that makes sense.
I use Fiber HDMI cable professionally all the time and its cheap, most of the time it saves me having to use a ton of convertors for sdi. I was worried about the cable breaking but haven't had a problem yet. It is also cheap to fly with I can have a couple 1000 feet worth in my pelican when I fly . its hard for me to say its not worth it also if you are 1005 black magic you can send camera data over them pretty cool. I understand the why of staying in a broadcast only equipment environment but... run and gun I always have 3 100 foot runs in my pelican.
Does 4k transmit over SDI?
There are various SDI options including 3G, 6G and 12G SDI. 3G SDI carries 1080p video while 6G and 12G carry 4K signals at various framerates depending on which one you choose.
What about HDCP? How does SDI get around that? In the consumer market HDCP is a real pain.
Over the last 5 or so years I put a decimator Md-hx between any laptop and my switcher and have not once had an issue. But there’s plenty of cheapo hdmi splitters on Amazon that strip HDCP.
I use sdi and cheap fiber optic cables on the gigs. I have never had one fiber cable break yet even though I thought and calculated that would happen. The argument of sending the cable to repair is hilarious. Repairing a optical-fiber cable is for sure much more expensive then just replacing it. SDI cable can just as well break at gigs. Especially with the examples you gave. But an new sdi cable is about 4 times more expensive. Yes hdmi was never meant for pro use in the first place and the two way communication it needs to start working can be a bit of a pain. But as the majority of atem mini users are working with hdmi versions, you are bringing this way too unbalanced in this video. A hdmi to sdi converter and then back + a hdmi cable costs about the same as 4 fiber-optic hdmi cables. This was the reason I started trying fiber-optic hdmi in the first place. I am amazed at how many times I am using these cables and never has gone out yet. So I just have to completely disagree with you on this video. Keep up the good work :)
You video editors might be using SDI, but us CSC video/studio guys use mellanox since like 2009. Pair it with a good media server and live IP streaming camera software and you're golden. SDI usually binds you to a proprietary system (which I try to avoid (and especially with live streaming stuff)). Unix + ssh + mpv + ffmpeg + android. I just use straight up server grade hardware and serve the video from the camera over wifi or hdmi to wifi. I don't mind the drop outs sometime.
Good video though.
Reels are a bad idea for SDI 👎🏻 just wrap them by hand.
Only use reels for 1000 feet fiber or longer.
It be cool if you made a video showing people how easy it is to make your own SDI cables. It's surprising how many people don't know how.
While I learned how to crimp SDI cables a long time ago, I'm lazy and it's a business expense to just buy them ready to go. The reels haven't failed me and I've had them for years at this point. I've also worked with other people who use reels without any issues.
Hdmi is great for the average person.. this is about pro video stuff
I cover a wide range from beginner to pro on my channel. Thanks for watching.
Way too much zooming in and out in this video. Very distracting.
Sorry. My style isn’t for everyone.