How the Cylon Raider has Evolved over the years
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The Cylon raider is an old, iconic design with its split flying wing look and the three centurions piloting it like a clown care. It's been the symbol of menace and evil in the original show, been reworked into a meat monster of a ship for the remaster, and has gone through multiple visual updates and new iterations. So settle in as I'm going to be covering all the different versions of the Cylons raider.
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I fixed the description. I copy pasted it by accident to get all the links and stuff and forgot to correct it. Should be fine now. Oops, guess anyone who was here early gets a funny haha moment to poke me with.
Couple of extra notes off the top of my head for the modern stuff:
The modern raider did have another advantage over the older ones in that they could learn and resurrect, meaning hte longer the war went on, the more often the raiders were killed, the better they got at fighting. Most of the time at least, this did also mean they could pick up bad habits though, like Scar who gained a tendency to toy with the vipers.
For the heavy raider, I think part of the reason for it was also that the producers needed a reasonable way to ferry human cylons around the place, since they're just as succeptible to vaccuum as an actual human.
Oh and I may be weird, but I love the modern raider. Possibly because I played too much BSGO so I got very attached to my raider, but still.
Waggle the wings
I always thought the "old" raiders needing a pilot (or pilots) - sitting in seats pushing buttons and turning controls, not to mention needing a window, was just silly. I mean, sure, from "you can see stuff for TV," fine, but *they're machines. They're computers.* If it was "The Raider is just a shell, they're the processor(s) - ok, fine, then just plug them in. They don't need space. Pop their heads off and plug them in or something. So the "new" raiders just made a lot more sense - meat notwithstanding.
My guess for the Heavy Raider Type II’s weaponry was to lay down fire on Colonial Hangers or soften up landing zones before their centurions are deployed.
I was here when the description was talking about the life of a mechwarrior lol
That advanced Raider is the first use of Stealth technology - in that it was designed to be SO fuglly that people who see if involuntarily forget it to preserve good taste, artistic integrity, and millitary self respect.
The Raider: the "Back in my Day" of Battlestar fighter craft. thanks for the video.
I like that the modern Cylon raider don't need a pilot
It has one built in and it's organic
Yeah I like that the raider doesn’t require a separate pilot, that makes sense for a robotic “race” to have special made pilots for their military forces.
That said, while the modern raider is sort of cool, but I prefer the original design, well except for huge size, both physically and its crew size. Of course I admit I’m biased as I actually watched the original as a kid, and had the raider toy. 😁
i wish they'd leant into that more
The modern raider only has 1 pilot which reflects their change in tactics
Remember that past raiders had 3 centurions
10 Raiders is force 30 Centurions
One of the tactics used by Cylons as show in S2 was intentionally crashing on Colonial ships to board them that way
It was an effective tactic till the Colonial adapted by loading up ships with platoons of heavily armed marines
The heavy raider was the evolution of that tactic'
The only issue with modern raider is that it depended completely on the resurrection ship
Normally damaged raiders were not repaired, they simple downloaded to new bodies
Without the resurrection ship, they had to endure the pain of being repaired
Additionally, older raiders could land and perform scouting missions so there is a lot of trade offs with the new raider
The reason for 3 of them in the cockpit was that they were liked together for faster processing/response.
As for the raider that had 6 of them, this was to make a light dual purpose strike fighter and transport for boarding, think of the soviet hind helicopter. drop off troops and get back into the fight.
Well the centurions are machines, so maybe the Cylons skimped on the raider's processers and the crew provided a large chunk of the fighters processing power.
"A friendly fire disaster waiting to happen." So...par for the course for the new Cylons? They failed up to the level of their incompetence with just planning the Genocide of the 12 Colonies then God smiled down upon them by granting them "Fuck you, that's why" levels of plot armor which promptly sent them into a mad scramble of "oh fuck, what the hell was step 2? We didn't actually plan for this to work!"
I was 13 when the mini series came out. BSG had a huge influence on my taste in space combat. Then BSG for the PS2 came out and introduced me to classic BSG design language. Still in my top ten cockpit simulators.
On the Cylon crew: I suspect they are acting as dedicated computers to a particular task? Commander/communications, weapons/sensors, engines/piloting on the three seaters, and split into all six categories in the six seater version. also I doubt they care how cramped the cockpit gets.
The original Cylon raiders also tend to show up alot as "inspiration" in early Atari Era games in the early 80s along with a bunch of other popular ships that can be seen as adapted enough to not hit copyright.
To be fair, the modern heavy raider design existed as far back as the start of season 2. I’m not exactly sure the writers even had the cylon civil war in mind that early in the series.
Earliest I’ve been to an episode, and I’m in the middle of an Anabasis mach, the Irony!
Perfect timing
Well to be fair, looking at the sheer amount of variations pretty much every single WWII fighter saw, the few versions of the Raider are remarkably consistent.
Heck, the Spitfire alone had over 18 variants during the war, and that´s just ONE fighter!
The Mosquito was the Swiss Army Knife of british air forces, and the BF110 was the same for the Third Reich. And each faction had at least one such plane.
Appreciate the breakdown and your opinions on the designs! Perhaps something to keep in mind with the naming practices is in this universe is they are cylons, machines. Fits the lore and what one would expect from a machine. If it's not broke, don't fix it. They're all raiders 👍
Wasnt the whole 3 crew thing about how they understood computes and AI at the time in that you would need 3 to make sure it can prevent the AI from getting stuck in a loop. Lots of old sci fi had the 3 computers thing going on like evangalion.
👌😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Cylon Raiders and their evaluation of the various designs from the original Battlestar Galactica to the reenvisioned and upgraded darker series, A job very fabulously well done indeed Sir!.
I always thought the weirdest thing about both of the shows was why the human/cylon conflict was an ongoing thing or even was a thing.
It would have made so much more sense if both parties had built a DMZ between each other, and then just colonized the half of the galaxy that was theirs.
i miss steve
Canadian must be on his meds again.
There was an old BSG game on xbox that had some interesting variants of the raider design. I think it may be based on the advanced raider (but they looked cool i swear!). There was also an elite 'Crimson raider' which had a similar wing structure to the reimagined raiders with classic cockpit
Deadlock refers to the prototype as Mk. 0 and the successor as the Mk. 1, so I like to say that the o.g. is the M0, the visual update one is M0A1, and the actual upgrade is the M1 and the RDM one is the M2.
I loved seeing the old raiders in Razor
The Type 1 was always my favorite, not just of the Raiders, but of Battlestar Galactica in general and possibly space war movies overall. Yes, including Star Wars. The TIE Interceptor gives it a good run for it's credits, but I think I still prefer the original raider a bit. This is all about aesthetics for me of course. "if they were real" I can't imagine a Type 1 Raider surviving an engagement with an interceptor that is aware of it and operational.
Of course I am not a BSG nerd enough to have been fully aware of the various iterations between the Type 1 and the "type 4" autonomous drone raider from the remake. Conceptually, I think the Type 4 makes some obvious improvements for the attack vessel of a droid army, but aesthetically I despise it. It takes many of the concepts I find aesthetically pleasing, like the forward swept wings, and then takes them too far, taking something great and turning it into something awful, like when rough sex goes too far and everyone forgets the safe word.
The "Type 2" and "Type 3" are definitely aesthetic improvements for me, the Type 3 being the absolute pinnacle among all these designs (to my taste). If I had the skills, I would mage a SWG mod that used a Type 3 and play that constantly.
Greetings from Namibia!
Love your vids! Keep up the good work!
Never heard of the advanced raider (or have long since forgotten about it)
It might make sense if it was some kind of p 61ish "fighter", but since it carries basically the same loadout as the original ....
I do fondly remember having a regular raider toy when i was a kid. Iirc there was a button to make the wings pop out.
The fifth and sixth crew are doin' robot stuff and the two pilots are necessary for true binocular steering
In Battlestar Galactica Online they separated the old raider from new calling old version War Raider, And War Raider Mk.2 Also the heavy raider have 6 barrrels and only 2 feeding belts. So maybe its two mirrored guns close together each wth 3 barrels. 21:53 Its like multiple barreled minigun fedeed by one belt, except it doesnt rotate.(spitfire have each gun feeding by own belt, its not the same) The modern Heavy Raider take niche of old Raiders, that worked as shuttle/fighter 7:2. Heavy Raider became gunship/shuttle (also have 2 triple barrel guns) for Cylons similiar to Colonial Raptor. As Raider is just fighter/Recon as Vipers. 22:40 Cylons used raiders from start of first cylon war. As they used to be colonial ships made for cylons, even in coloring ( war raider mk.2)
I had the original Cylon raider toy as a kid. Still a favorite tv series.
I always thought of the modern Raider (Mk 4?) much of the way I looked at the Wasp from the (80s?) Mechanoid Invasion, a three part table top role playing game. I always thought that a writer, for the series, played that game when younger.
They were obviously trying to channel HR Giger to some degree in their updated cylon designs. While that goes a long way to make them feel more alien, I didn't think it was a good design choice for a race of mechanical beings created by humans.
I think I heard Highlander in there? No just me?
** Bagpipes intensifies **
I was hoping that the Elite raider from the 2003 game would be on here and was saddened when it was not.
Though it's not surprising given barely anyone seems have played/remember it, also given it's BSG there is probably little to no info on it except the visuals.
The one thing that always bothered me about the cyclon fighters- they should have been MUCH more manueverable than they were. All of the human fighters have to keep their maneuvers under the g-limit their pilots can survive. The cylons, being almost entirely mechanical (with organic components), should have been able to pull off maneuvers that would have pasted any human that tried to pull off the same. The reboot raiders are better than the original raiders, but they still fly like they have human pilots on the stick.
The OG Raider seemed more of a fighter bomber to me.
I did like the living Raider though seemed more logical.
SCI getting his caffine stim packs: *kssszt* OH YEAH thats the stuff.
We need the Six Million Dollar Steve. Cybernetically repaired and upgraded from years of Sci's abuse. Stronger! Faster! Better than before! Hungrier too! Maybe settle for six million pesos instead...?
The first time I ever experienced the heavy raider was in the online battle star galactica video game. And to this day I remember how fucking dumb I thought it looked and questioned it’s existence.
Is it possible for you to do a video on the F-302???
God I miss the original show. I wish it had a longer run.
maybe the heavy raider is an A10 analog?
Never really cared for the RDM version of the Raider. Loved the original.
Hi everyone hope you enjoy the episode
What if I'm already subscribed and liked before the video already started? Also I watched the newer series so all this original series stuff actually makes me angry as it's significantly cooler
i hope the new BSG is good
I much prefer the new raiders. A very original idea, not fighters with pilots inside or even drones with the pilot safely somewhere else but rather a trained animal. Of course it’s ugly, it’s an alien predator.
interesting
If the first episode I see a gold cylon raider. Does anyone know the back story on this? I think it would have to be Vulpa's raider form some forgotten store. Some had suggested it is just part of flim process. I am not buying that. Can be found 19 or 20 minutes episode 1 when cylons attack the galactica. Just for a second user right corner of the screen.
30 years... very long lasting? how old is the F16 now?
I gave the video a like and will subscribe, but decided to go a step further and drop a "thanks" because you used the correct term, "by accident," rather than the incorrect, modern usage, "On accident".
better going than coming? the Japanese have a word for that, I believe... 'bakushan'
Where is Steve?
Rig the algorithm!
Have to disagree, l always loved the new raider. It's kinda funny how you bring up starwars but not mention the vulture droid because l feel like they pretty much just straight up copied that idea.
In the same spirit, the new raider is also a rare instance of the machines playing to their strenghts (ignoring the flesh stuff for a moment) having a vehicle crewed by robots is just stupid when you can simply put an AI inside the vehicle and make it compleyely independent, it's so much more efficient. They are assentially centurions that adapted their bodies for space/aerial combat which is just awesome, and them having a cylon face is just the cherry on top. They're a 10/10 can't change my mind.
It would be an excellent watch, if it wasnt 80% complaining. More Data, Less Whine please
I say give the OG the abilities of the modern raider, including needing no crew, and that's a winner.
969 likes 👍
I always thought the cylon head thing was a little goofy, plus the cyborg angle.
But i really liked the overall vibe and shape of the redesign, even if it made fuck all sense.
Nice and menacing.
Now seeing the original art, i agree that the blocky version has some appeal.
Except for the one shown at 19:24. I really hate that look, it looks like the designer was a silverhawks fan...or maybe a flying mandalorian.
I guess there's no accounting for aesthetic taste, huh? Because I *loved* the RDM raider designer.
... heavy raider though? Yeah that is one butt-ugly ship
Didn’t care much for the modern raiders or base ships. Excellent storytelling though.
Raider going from a dinner plate to a cartoon moon with a face
Oh Lords of Kobol, the Mac Tonight Moon-Man has come back for revenge!
I noticed that you kept the old series and new series canons apart much better here which made things clearer :). Appreciated! Nice vid.
Yea, people complained about that in the base star video and other BSG stuff. So i figured if people didn't want to go with the unified lore, i would just split them apart and do both.
Man. I miss BSG Online. Was a fun game. Also, Heavy Raider Type 2 with its brick of guns was a cool design IMO. As a combat dropship the brick of guns made clearing a path or clearing an LZ much easier.
Av raider crew theory.
Pilot and gunner at center, two on Electronic warfare or dedicated sensors?, backups?
The original can be imagined to be something an engineer would design for service. The RDM screams out that it was designed by an 18 year old who was convinced his work was kewl.
So the Cavil's then...
To be fair, if you kill everyone, then you can loot everything.
To be further fair, they aren't that smart most of the time, even before...Incidents. Despite being faster, stronger, tougher, etc. Their perfect for killing Nuggets. Not so much looting.
But they do seem highly expendable regardless of series [I haven't seen most of it but their focus doesn't seem to have changed.], but just looking at the crew compliments of the OG- It could be that they require additional...We'll call them "Leadership Nodes" to operate effectively, to offset the sheer quantity of bad decisions a more standard unit has.
But they probably have increased computing power per body on the vessel for the older variations [Or, first ones if you prefer.] Since they at least in my mind, went harder on interconnectivity. To make up for a lack of intelligence, which does seem to be the only real problem for the cylons.
Do you know about the Raiders from the FASA boardgame from way back?
I REALLY need to check this show out. I grew up on Wars, and Trek in my young adult days...I feel like I'm missing out. :(
I like the modern re-imagined Raider.
I also liked Scar......
Best to separate out the Deadlock models by themselves. The Raider in the museum in the RDM mini-series/Season One was a direct copy of the original classic look. Around the time they started having flashbacks, the Razor TV movie I think, the idea to do the visual update came around. Everything else, from the prototype to the heavy was just Deadlock trying to pad out the Cylon small craft portfolio.
shame that when the galactic and following fleet , found Earth, it wasn't the earth of Babylon5.... oh, those battles would have been epic, and short
I used to play Battlestar Galactica on the PS2, and I remember Cylon Elite Raiders being a thing, and they look like the modern ones so that's what I've called them.
I just hope this isn't my brain playing funny buggers from a game I haven't played in 20 years.
Give me the original Raider every day of the week though.
I personally love the design of the Type II, especially the way it was used in Razor. A nice tip of the hat to the original series with an added aggressive look.
One thing on the original, they should have rounded the "canopy" section.
@13:00 yeah, you just edit that part out. It wasn't funny and it made things more confusing.
I think the *newer* cyclon fighter looks sleek and cool. Wish the face was a bit cooler but oh well. The heavy raider on the other hand is just plain ugly sadly
I hate Wardrivers💀
Team Pancake!
Idk if I'd call the wardriver a gunship lmao but I'm happy to see BSG content, you're funny too 👍
The OG raider looks like a Pringle with laser cannons.
I'm with you. The OG is the best looking by far.
I've always liked it, but it's only now - with videos like yours - that I can actually appreciate all the details that were just not visible on my old CRT TV.
It just makes it better.
And yeah - the blockier, concept drawings for the new Raider are much better.
Ignoring that neoBSG is a fanfic dumpsterfire, I'm guessing that you've never played the Wing Commander games, otherwise you would have brought up how the 'modern Raider' is a pretty obvious ripoff of the Dralthi.
The original BSG was awesome.
The remastered series is crap.