Very comprehensive. Much respect to the NTSB for this investigation. I can’t comprehend the FO panicking, slamming the yoke forward and exclaiming “Where’s my speed?” without cross checking any instruments. It’s baffling.
He then was too busy praying to do anything. He seemed really obsessed with that. And the captain just asked what is going on over it instead of doing something. It's really weird.
I am not a pilot I am just a civilian that watches these video because I am interest in what happened. I have to say tax payers can be very happy with the investigation NTSB does and the discovery hearings. The best part is having these videos online for anyone to watch. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for having the public access NTSB virtually so that those of use who cannot travel to attend in person, can see the investigation facts as well as better understanding the NTSB professionals reasoning process as they begin to determine the cause of an accident and (possibly more importantly) suggest changes to avoid such an accident in the future. The video meeting and its posting on RUclips truly fulfill the objectives of open meetings. I understand this is more work for all involved, but Thank You for making these meetings available to the public.
Please remember that all B767 related recommendations should also apply to the B757, specifically with regard to the proximity of speed brake lever and go-around switches.
@@FEVB I'm type rated on the B757/767 fly the B757 and sometimes train in a B767 simulator. Trust me, the thrust levers and the speedbrake handle are exactly the same. Fact is other than a few switches (in the hydraulic system for example) both flight decks are virtually identical.
I flew over the accident site days later and was always wondering what the mystery of the accident was. Although it’s unfortunate to be pilot error, it’s comforting knowing the cause as it was quite mysterious at the time.
Thank you for your efforts to improve the safety of the airline industry in a remarkably transparent and open way. Your agency is the gold standard for how government should operate. I share your frustration when your recommendations are ignored by other agencies and organizations. Keep up the good work, it is greatly appreciated.
I'm in the school bus industry and I think cameras are terrific. I don't think privacy can be invaded at work aside from changing clothes or going to the bathroom. For instance on a school bus...nobody cares if you swear when a deer jumps in front of the bus and you brake hard. It's about whether you're smoking on the bus, texting and driving or touching a child inappropriately. And instead of thinking you're afraid of a camera recording something, it should be, IF something happens, let's see what happened so we can prevent it from happening again. The investigators need as much as possible to do their job.
2:15:30 onward isn’t totally true. Since AF447 accident recurrent simulator training requires Upset Prevention and Recovery exercises every year. It comprises manual flight exercises and nose high/nose low upset extreme conditions recognition and recovery.
@11:24 "The speed brakes were retracted, which could only be done manually" - Hey NTSB I dont think you commented on that specific action ..- but what is going on there ?- I can follow that go around may have been pushed by accident, but not the speed brakes as well - are you saying that was a conscious action?
They did, they said the first officer likely retracted the spoilers after recognising a change in the state of the aircraft’s movement (probably thought the aircraft was levelling off)
@Clark Kent I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in some way to cause the hostility in your response. Anyway, I think it’s relevant because that’s the question I was originally responding to: why didn’t the NTSB address that the first officer manually retracted the spoilers.
I'm not a pilot or work in the aviation industry, however, I feel video recording devices in the cockpit, is a win win. I feel that is a move that should of been played along time ago, so I say, get cameras in the cockpit, yes.
When are you addressing cloud storage of CVR and FDR? It's literally negligence to not recommend it at this point. Convenience stores can't go missing, and they have cloud storage for CCTV in the event the location is compromised. What decade are you in?
you don't hear such clear language and blame often from them. To the crew and to the faa. Then again, they probably rarely have such a clusterfuck of incompetence to deal with.
Anybody know where today's hearing is? NTSB link to media says it's still waiting to begin. Should have been at 9:00 this morning, I thought. Train collision hearing
The meeting started at 9:30, not 9:00 (as planned). For the live webcast its on the NTSB website (Home > NEWS & EVENTS > News Releases >" REMINDER: NTSB Board Meeting Tomorrow on Ohio Collision Between Two CSX Freight Trains", on that page it gives a link to where to watch). They do not live stream it here on RUclips, they only post the recordings here.
It's pretty messed up that Robert here is so script-driven that he needs to read the script when he gives the families condolences. That is just awkward and insincere. Couldn't even say it with own words from his heart.
How do we know his hand was below the levers? Usually when an FO (right seat pilot) is guarding the speedbrake, his left hand should be over or in front of the levers (which even becomes an extra cue that the speedbrake may not be needed anymore once you feel the levers moving forward). If this is not written anywhere (I don't recall seeing it) it could be a good practice to be recommended to operators.
@@spencerbrown3875 The board members are in front of real backgrounds; the staff are the normal Teams digital background. The artifacting around hair is quite clear.
I am astounded by the detail this board put into this report. My faith in the NTSB is so much greater now. I've always had great regard for the NTSB but seeing how they come to their conclusion on this incident just makes it higher. As for the FAA, they continue to put money ahead of safety. I have watched the reactions of the FAA to many a recommendation from the NTSB with no action because of the cost to the airlines. As an example, it took decades before the FAA approved accident avoidance systems because of the high cost. So many lives were lost during that time. The FAA has so much blood on their hands that it is just flowing off.
All NTSB investigations are professionally done like this and I agree with you. Safety recommendations aren’t adopted as often or as quickly as they should be. Same thing with the railroads and it is beyond frustrating. Side note: Member Jennifer Homendy is a railroads expert.
I came here looking for something useful that perhaps would have complemented reading the report. I got tired of hearing FAA blaming making it so distracting that I think the purpose was to make a public statement. I wish I would have learned about the investigation and what counter ideas were presented before concluding on the final causes.
GCAS has been on the entire USAF C-130E/H fleets since the late 1990s. Well proven system. Larger B707 based airframes like the E-3 AWACS have a similar system called GPWS.
Watched the whole thing here in NZ! Always impressed with what these guys do. Looking for examples to inspire your children with career choices and possibilities? Look no further than the diverse skills found in this organisation. Shame it’s “not the FAAs finest hour”. Safety comes at a cost.
GCAS is fairly new. If the commercial airline industry gets this technology safety is going to go through the roof! I can't wait till this is implemented#
I agree, but it has to be seriously modified. I only say this because of the traffic around most large commercial airports. A plane with their GCAS kicked in could end up in a mid-air instead. However, it is definitely worth the effort to make a commercial aviation version though.
Yes free shipping is amazing and I can’t figure out how they can afford to do that. I am an Amazon prime member and I really appreciate the free shipping but now I see there is a cost - and that cost may be too high.
There is no such thing as free shipping. If you look at Amazon's prices with "free" shipping, you'll find that their prices are much higher than another place carrying the same item and adding shipping at the end of the order . . . most of the time. In the grander scheme, there is no such thing as free. However, in this situation where Amazon essentially controls the means of shipping, they know their direct costs and can easily give themselves a significant discount. In cases like FedEx and UPS (et al), they charge fairly high prices. Their profit margins are unbelievable.
@@aafjeyakubu5124 The culture is what disturbs me. People search for something for nothing, and get nothing for something. A feedback loop starts where customers demand cheap and carriers and sellers turn a blind eye to bad hiring practices. Bad press is likely the only way these folks will stop using the cheapest and most likely unsuitable personnel. Dead people in downed planes has that effect, sadly.
@@deweywatts8456 There was nothing about cost-cutting that caused this crash. It was all due to the systemic promotion of an FO who had no business being anywhere near a cockpit.
They raised once again the resistance form the airline industry to have visual recording equipment in the cockpit. In yet another downed aircraft where gaps in the culpability remain and the lack of clarity spreads the blame unfairly. I'd say they should be there. Buses and trains, as they said, routinely use them. Why not the airlines?
Hello the DOT has been implementing a check ✔ system for The trucking industry since 1992 they require 10 years work records 👏. Just utilize the same system the union is the same. Saludos to the NTSB
Also add that I would promote the use of cockpit video, with stipulations that it were recorded to the CVR, only accessible post incident. Many trucking and transit companies overuse the cameras for sole use of policing the employees, which at the worst end, gives companies full view and audio of sleeper bunk.
@Doge di Amalfi Privacy bullshit. The airplane is owned by someone else, no privacy laws. Trucking companies , Railroads etc., have video in cockpits. You don't know the laws. Besides, the video would only be viewed after an accident, it would be under the same rules as the CVR.
So, what I'm getting is, the FO, didn't give correct details of his past as a pilot, and atlas didn't check properly, abit like the German wings incident a few years back, where the FO didn't disclose his medical history, atlas couldn't find his past failings and German wings didn't know about past medical details. Oh this is something that needs to change isnt it.
These guys say that hiring should be on merit and aptitude. Didn't you hear the Princeton science and engineering professors say, this week, that we have to stop this merit stuff. ( let their kids fly with non merit airline pilots.. or go to non merit surgeons !!!! )
It took me three sessions to sit through the 4+ hour briefing. I can appreciate the work that went into the investigation and report. There are impressive moments brought in by select “staff” when they were asked to participate. Overall I’m not tremendously impressed with this result. This “sunshine hearing” spent an inordinate amount of the 4 hours simply saying “I told you so” castigating the FAA for not implementing previous NTSB recommendations regarding pilot records and video recorders.
Where is the synthetic vision (SV)? If the plane was equipped with SV it would have been quite easy to determine the plane was in a dive when there are no visual terrain references. The ancient instruments in these aircraft make it difficult to make an immediate assessment of the planes attitude in an emotional environment.
Synthetic Vision would not have saved this crew. The FO was in full panic mode and acting worse than a student in training. Reacting rather than thinking. the aircraft is equipped with 3 Attitude indicators. Brown is earth blue is sky. Tell me how hard is that to understand? He didnt understand the Flight mode he was in and reacted to a "stall" that never occurred.
romero1337 the strange thing is that a stall has to be the most obvious occurrence in the air. First, you stop flying, and are now falling. Second, with the combination of stick shaker, stick pusher, and associated stall horns, unless these ALL fail, you can be fairly sure that you’re not stalling.
I totally get embellishing on your resume or even straight out lying to acquire employment. I’m sure all of us has done it once or twice in our lives to get a job but when that job requires you successfully operating an airborne 75 ton piece of equipment where just one missed item on a checklist can spell death for you…your coworker and 100s of people on the ground. Yeah I’m not going to lie on my resume. There’s too much at stake!!! I mean They’re not flipping burgers at Mickey Ds.
1:56:10 There will be a cost involved. Not many pilots will be left on the market if you consider that. I mean, it's fair. We should only have capable pilots behind the sidesticks and control columns. But at what cost?
Cost #1 - they all will live to see another day. Cost #2- Greedy consumers demanding free deliveries will have to reach for some change in their pockets.
Affirmative action cannot be in a pilot’s seat. Sorry to say it in August 2020. If you are fully qualified no matter who you are - then you belong in the pilot’s seat. If you are getting constant remedial training and attention, you do not belong in the pilot’s seat, No matter the political flavor of the day. Hope it doesn’t get worse now. Pressures on companies will start costing lives. No matter who you are - you are fully qualified - you fly.
Its so sad to accept and deal with a culture of Tokens in a highly Civilized society supported by law enforcement, nonetheless as part of this society we have the responsibility to face the true, not all the individuals are fit genetically to carry out and interface with technology aggravating the fact with fake and lies work experiences, the consequences are grave, sadly this fact is extended to all activities.
Luis Ramon Zarate Nogales this is getting dicey. I am squarely on your page and everything you say except the word “genetic“. Yes there are certain cultures that support “overreactive“ emotional responses. They are sweet, delightful cultures but not suitable in the pilot’s seat. Antigua - I would say cultural not genetic.
Gage Whew! Damn glad YOU are not in any pilot’s seat. First time in flight you would crash the plane through your tears. Worse yet, whatever you would feel at the time, you would probably crash the plane because “the people down below deserve it“. Kamikaze dude!
While the FO displayed poor judgment in assessing the aircraft's energy state, within his illusion, the procedure implemented is just as stated in the new UPRT programs implemented both by Boeing and Airbus. Poor pilots keep to memory simple procedural steps that could hijack them at any time, as this case shows. From Boeings FCOM; "Application of forward column pressure (as much as full forward may be required ) should provide sufficient elevator control to produce a nose-down pitch rate" The problem with such verbiage is that poor-performing pilots may misinterpret this and apply too much nose down. This is also common in SIM training at this time, as much emphasis has been given to the new UPRT program as pushed by Boeing and the FAA. The results are as we observed in this accident and this is only the beginning of a new type of accident that will in the future be called. "PILOT INDUCED LOCI"
One can point that this FO didn’t have a great training history but that’s not why THEY pushed the nose over. In fact, if you read the report you’d see that both pilots were given remedial training due to unsatisfactory performance, but they were both trained to satisfaction and we have no reason not to assume they were capable. My post is intended for intelligent aviators to stop and think this through 1) The FO did not have his hand near the GA switch. I’ve never seen any FO do that and rest assure this question was asked if anyone noticed it on previous flights. If so, that bit of information would’ve been included. 2) The FO’s exclamation “where’s my speed bug” is a massive clue. 3) The Captain’s dead silence is a clue that he too is confused. The NTSB’s portrayal of the Captain seems as though he’s in the lavatory and completely at the will of the FO. NTSB should be ashamed of themselves
Edward Arruda don’t care who you are. Don’t care where you come from. Don’t care what you look like. Don’t care if you are headless. Don’t care if you stink. If you are QUALIFIED - you fly.
Hello my opinion. The day, flight crews will be monitored by video tape or any other means, it will indicate that it is time to take the human out of the machine. Thanks NTSB. Saludos
What? They are already monitored via audio. Also what does having a video recorder installed in the cockpit have to do with flight automation? The two things have nothing to do with each other. As noted train engineers and commercial freight haulers are already routinely monitored via video with sound. What reason exists to make airline pilots exempt from such monitoring?
@@jaysmith1408 hello the truck and pilot union is the same institution. Yes they will resist the advance of technology replacing human. I believe it is a erroneos strategy for the unions to stop evolution of industry. The trasport industry truck, railroad, aircraft, sea, eventually will be autonomous. The complexities of the machine can not longer be managed. Humans institutions must get ready for the transition. The human error in depressing a button and ending beautiful lives is unacceptable. Thanks for your educated and understanding comments 👍. Saludos
What it sounds like when gavel hits dining room table made in the Philippines...Apparently no one loves member Homandy. That hair. Worthy of an investigation itself.
So the comments on Harmonday made me go over to the Internet and look her up and you are all right. She is a Democrat Trump nomination - what a combo. One of tTrump’s blonde selections. I don’t think it’s that the Board doesn’t like her - she is just so new I think the Board just doesn’t know her. And she is from the railroads - not airflight. I noticed she was very humble so now that explains it.
Hello, note 📝 the first officer didn't killed them, the captain did. My condolences. Thanks to the NTSB you are very good example of what human can accomplish , perfection 👌 👏
What did I miss? Sounds to me like a coincidence of the first officer flying, having to reach for speed brakes under a questionable design of go around switch, the turbulence, and the first officer’s poor reaction to the unforseen circumstances. The captain, not fully expecting either the go around, or the first officer’s poor reaction, did as best of a job as he could do in short time, and the limitations of split controls, which, the manual control of Boeings is often a great attribute, unlike Airbus’, cannot give captain’s controls priority.
@@jaysmith1408 hello you are correct, the Captain failed to respond and regain control. The next step is to remove the reason of this sad catastrophic event from the aircraft control. Thanks for your educated response 👍 👌 saludos
@@jaysmith1408 I don't see how Airbus make a difference here. The Captain for whatever reason did not take control. If he was un-willing to say 'My Control' in the 76. He likely would not have set the priority takeover control switch in the airbus. Also Split input issues have occurred on Airbuses (ex Air france 447).
@@pavelavietor1 The co-pilot is supposed to be as good a pilot as the captain is... I don't see why it would be the captain's fault if he can't regain control, especially as pilot monitoring, and if the aircraft is in such an upset position so quickly. No, the real reason of the crash is an incompetent and cocky F-O, that should never have touched the controls of something bigger than a RC aircraft with such blatant failures under his belt. This is sickening.
The FO “didn’t killed them”???? Did you even watch this video?? He flew the plane into the ground! Totally incompetent and a liar also!!!! ruclips.net/video/GsSNr5DR840/видео.html
A "don't blame the plane" report? Look at the facts: F/O has problems with his EHDI display,selects alternate symbol gen,BUT NOT alternate data source,,,,(Big mistake!) F/O presses TO/ga (take off power) TO INCREASE SPEED. F/O MANUALLY retracts flap lever TO INCREASE SPEED F/O Points the nose down HARD TO INCREASE SPEED F/O states on CVR "where's my speed? my speed?" F/O states on CVR "stall!" logical conclusion,F/O believed aircraft was flying into a stall,because his instruments TOLD him so.Spcifically, incorrect speed indication on EADI orAirspeed ind.or both. (probably focused on falling bars on EADI?) FACT, the somatogravic illusion might convimce you you're nose up or climbing when you're not,it won't tell you you're stalling,only faulty instruments do that. If I'm wrong,PROVE it,what was the fault he encountered with his electronic flight instruments minutes before the crash?(as confirmed by the captain,no ILLUSION there!)??
8:00 for the presentation from staff
2:42:05 proposed findings
2:52:16 proposed probable cause
3:08:14 proposed recommendations
Thank you.
Nice to see stuff like this recorded and uploaded to the wider public!
Very comprehensive. Much respect to the NTSB for this investigation. I can’t comprehend the FO panicking, slamming the yoke forward and exclaiming “Where’s my speed?” without cross checking any instruments. It’s baffling.
He then was too busy praying to do anything.
He seemed really obsessed with that. And the captain just asked what is going on over it instead of doing something. It's really weird.
1:39:53 break ends, meeting resumes
3:59:52 as above
I am not a pilot I am just a civilian that watches these video because I am interest in what happened. I have to say tax payers can be very happy with the investigation NTSB does and the discovery hearings. The best part is having these videos online for anyone to watch. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for having the public access NTSB virtually so that those of use who cannot travel to attend in person, can see the investigation facts as well as better understanding the NTSB professionals reasoning process as they begin to determine the cause of an accident and (possibly more importantly) suggest changes to avoid such an accident in the future. The video meeting and its posting on RUclips truly fulfill the objectives of open meetings. I understand this is more work for all involved, but Thank You for making these meetings available to the public.
Please remember that all B767 related recommendations should also apply to the B757, specifically with regard to the proximity of speed brake lever and go-around switches.
Since they share a type rating, shouldn’t they have to?
@@jaysmith1408 Yes, the thrust levers and speed brake handle are identical.
Good note.
Francisco Maldonado this is patently false.
@@FEVB I'm type rated on the B757/767 fly the B757 and sometimes train in a B767 simulator. Trust me, the thrust levers and the speedbrake handle are exactly the same. Fact is other than a few switches (in the hydraulic system for example) both flight decks are virtually identical.
I flew over the accident site days later and was always wondering what the mystery of the accident was. Although it’s unfortunate to be pilot error, it’s comforting knowing the cause as it was quite mysterious at the time.
Hello I live in the area. The comunity got lucky, a few miles and probably will crash in the refinery. Saludos
Thank you for your efforts to improve the safety of the airline industry in a remarkably transparent and open way. Your agency is the gold standard for how government should operate. I share your frustration when your recommendations are ignored by other agencies and organizations. Keep up the good work, it is greatly appreciated.
I'm in the school bus industry and I think cameras are terrific. I don't think privacy can be invaded at work aside from changing clothes or going to the bathroom. For instance on a school bus...nobody cares if you swear when a deer jumps in front of the bus and you brake hard. It's about whether you're smoking on the bus, texting and driving or touching a child inappropriately. And instead of thinking you're afraid of a camera recording something, it should be, IF something happens, let's see what happened so we can prevent it from happening again. The investigators need as much as possible to do their job.
He lied; he died; and killed two others. Very sad.
2:15:30 onward isn’t totally true. Since AF447 accident recurrent simulator training requires Upset Prevention and Recovery exercises every year. It comprises manual flight exercises and nose high/nose low upset extreme conditions recognition and recovery.
Legend has it that Carl Perkins still has his hand raised to this day
🤣🤣🤣
Hello God Speed. Thank NTSB FOR ALL YOU DO. saludos
@11:24 "The speed brakes were retracted, which could only be done manually" - Hey NTSB I dont think you commented on that specific action ..- but what is going on there ?- I can follow that go around may have been pushed by accident, but not the speed brakes as well - are you saying that was a conscious action?
They did, they said the first officer likely retracted the spoilers after recognising a change in the state of the aircraft’s movement (probably thought the aircraft was levelling off)
@Clark Kent sure, there is more than one reason they might have retracted spoilers. The point is they did mention it in the report
@Clark Kent I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in some way to cause the hostility in your response. Anyway, I think it’s relevant because that’s the question I was originally responding to: why didn’t the NTSB address that the first officer manually retracted the spoilers.
I'm not a pilot or work in the aviation industry, however, I feel video recording devices in the cockpit, is a win win. I feel that is a move that should of been played along time ago, so I say, get cameras in the cockpit, yes.
When are you addressing cloud storage of CVR and FDR? It's literally negligence to not recommend it at this point. Convenience stores can't go missing, and they have cloud storage for CCTV in the event the location is compromised. What decade are you in?
you don't hear such clear language and blame often from them. To the crew and to the faa.
Then again, they probably rarely have such a clusterfuck of incompetence to deal with.
Anybody know where today's hearing is? NTSB link to media says it's still waiting to begin. Should have been at 9:00 this morning, I thought. Train collision hearing
The meeting started at 9:30, not 9:00 (as planned). For the live webcast its on the NTSB website (Home > NEWS & EVENTS > News Releases >" REMINDER: NTSB Board Meeting Tomorrow on Ohio Collision Between Two CSX Freight Trains", on that page it gives a link to where to watch). They do not live stream it here on RUclips, they only post the recordings here.
It's pretty messed up that Robert here is so script-driven that he needs to read the script when he gives the families condolences. That is just awkward and insincere. Couldn't even say it with own words from his heart.
How do we know his hand was below the levers? Usually when an FO (right seat pilot) is guarding the speedbrake, his left hand should be over or in front of the levers (which even becomes an extra cue that the speedbrake may not be needed anymore once you feel the levers moving forward). If this is not written anywhere (I don't recall seeing it) it could be a good practice to be recommended to operators.
Final report is going to be JUICY!
Just curious, does the NTSB have an egg carton of cubicles for filming meetings individually, or are they all sitting on a really long wall?
Zoom meeting they are in scattered locations.
They’re all at home and the backgrounds are digitally overlayed.
@@spencerbrown3875 The board members are in front of real backgrounds; the staff are the normal Teams digital background. The artifacting around hair is quite clear.
pfeilspitze so the board members were FedEx’d an NTSB poster board in front of which to sit?
I am astounded by the detail this board put into this report. My faith in the NTSB is so much greater now. I've always had great regard for the NTSB but seeing how they come to their conclusion on this incident just makes it higher. As for the FAA, they continue to put money ahead of safety. I have watched the reactions of the FAA to many a recommendation from the NTSB with no action because of the cost to the airlines. As an example, it took decades before the FAA approved accident avoidance systems because of the high cost. So many lives were lost during that time. The FAA has so much blood on their hands that it is just flowing off.
All NTSB investigations are professionally done like this and I agree with you. Safety recommendations aren’t adopted as often or as quickly as they should be. Same thing with the railroads and it is beyond frustrating. Side note: Member Jennifer Homendy is a railroads expert.
The distinction is by design, though. NTSB has a single mandate; the FAA has multiple conflicting ones.
Why not make it more difficult to accidently select a go-around? Maybe a cover on the g-a switch?
I came here looking for something useful that perhaps would have complemented reading the report. I got tired of hearing FAA blaming making it so distracting that I think the purpose was to make a public statement. I wish I would have learned about the investigation and what counter ideas were presented before concluding on the final causes.
GCAS has been on the entire USAF C-130E/H fleets since the late 1990s. Well proven system. Larger B707 based airframes like the E-3 AWACS have a similar system called GPWS.
GPWS is the "terrain terrain" warning; it doesn't actually change the attitude of the plane like the mentioned military system does.
They need cameras on the wings, engines, and landing gear too.
Watched the whole thing here in NZ! Always impressed with what these guys do. Looking for examples to inspire your children with career choices and possibilities? Look no further than the diverse skills found in this organisation. Shame it’s “not the FAAs finest hour”. Safety comes at a cost.
GCAS is fairly new. If the commercial airline industry gets this technology safety is going to go through the roof! I can't wait till this is implemented#
I agree, but it has to be seriously modified. I only say this because of the traffic around most large commercial airports. A plane with their GCAS kicked in could end up in a mid-air instead. However, it is definitely worth the effort to make a commercial aviation version though.
Change the culture of cheap flight( i.e. free shipping) and less carriers will hire unqualified pilots.
Yes free shipping is amazing and I can’t figure out how they can afford to do that. I am an Amazon prime member and I really appreciate the free shipping but now I see there is a cost - and that cost may be too high.
There is no such thing as free shipping. If you look at Amazon's prices with "free" shipping, you'll find that their prices are much higher than another place carrying the same item and adding shipping at the end of the order . . . most of the time. In the grander scheme, there is no such thing as free. However, in this situation where Amazon essentially controls the means of shipping, they know their direct costs and can easily give themselves a significant discount. In cases like FedEx and UPS (et al), they charge fairly high prices. Their profit margins are unbelievable.
@@aafjeyakubu5124 The culture is what disturbs me. People search for something for nothing, and get nothing for something. A feedback loop starts where customers demand cheap and carriers and sellers turn a blind eye to bad hiring practices. Bad press is likely the only way these folks will stop using the cheapest and most likely unsuitable personnel. Dead people in downed planes has that effect, sadly.
@@PAS_2020 That “free” shipping is paid by your Prime membership dues.
@@deweywatts8456 There was nothing about cost-cutting that caused this crash. It was all due to the systemic promotion of an FO who had no business being anywhere near a cockpit.
They raised once again the resistance form the airline industry to have visual recording equipment in the cockpit. In yet another downed aircraft where gaps in the culpability remain and the lack of clarity spreads the blame unfairly. I'd say they should be there. Buses and trains, as they said, routinely use them. Why not the airlines?
Why visual recording systems are not installed on 121 flight decks; ask ALPA about that.
@Doge di Amalfi What 'privacy laws' do you speak of? The video would only be viewed after an accident. Very useful like the CVR.
I herd of other accidents with the go around button being bumped on by mistake pilots trying to fight it not knowing what going on
China 140
TOGA doesn’t mean much doesn’t hardly do anything
Just ask the crew of an A310 ( GDR Interflug): The aircraft performed a loop!!
They should look at their instruments. Flight mode is displayed on annunciator.
Hello the DOT has been implementing a check ✔ system for The trucking industry since 1992 they require 10 years work records 👏. Just utilize the same system the union is the same. Saludos to the NTSB
Also add that I would promote the use of cockpit video, with stipulations that it were recorded to the CVR, only accessible post incident. Many trucking and transit companies overuse the cameras for sole use of policing the employees, which at the worst end, gives companies full view and audio of sleeper bunk.
Audio of the bunk ? Ha ha ha !!!
@Doge di Amalfi Privacy bullshit. The airplane is owned by someone else, no privacy laws. Trucking companies , Railroads etc., have video in cockpits. You don't know the laws. Besides, the video would only be viewed after an accident, it would be under the same rules as the CVR.
So, what I'm getting is, the FO, didn't give correct details of his past as a pilot, and atlas didn't check properly, abit like the German wings incident a few years back, where the FO didn't disclose his medical history, atlas couldn't find his past failings and German wings didn't know about past medical details. Oh this is something that needs to change isnt it.
0:00 oh shoot I think I forgot to bang the gavel!
These guys say that hiring should be on merit and aptitude. Didn't you hear the Princeton science and engineering professors say, this week, that we have to stop this merit stuff. ( let their kids fly with non merit airline pilots.. or go to non merit surgeons !!!! )
Gage once again to you I am even more than damn happy you are not in any pilot’s seat. Damn you are emotional.
It took me three sessions to sit through the 4+ hour briefing. I can appreciate the work that went into the investigation and report. There are impressive moments brought in by select “staff” when they were asked to participate. Overall I’m not tremendously impressed with this result. This “sunshine hearing” spent an inordinate amount of the 4 hours simply saying “I told you so” castigating the FAA for not implementing previous NTSB recommendations regarding pilot records and video recorders.
Where is the synthetic vision (SV)?
If the plane was equipped with SV it would have been quite easy to determine the plane was in a dive when there are no visual terrain references.
The ancient instruments in these aircraft make it difficult to make an immediate assessment of the planes attitude in an emotional environment.
Synthetic Vision would not have saved this crew. The FO was in full panic mode and acting worse than a student in training. Reacting rather than thinking. the aircraft is equipped with 3 Attitude indicators. Brown is earth blue is sky. Tell me how hard is that to understand? He didnt understand the Flight mode he was in and reacted to a "stall" that never occurred.
romero1337 the strange thing is that a stall has to be the most obvious occurrence in the air. First, you stop flying, and are now falling. Second, with the combination of stick shaker, stick pusher, and associated stall horns, unless these ALL fail, you can be fairly sure that you’re not stalling.
@@jaysmith1408 Agreed! This was a systematic failure of the Pilot Flying and the Pilot monitoring
15:22
I totally get embellishing on your resume or even straight out lying to acquire employment. I’m sure all of us has done it once or twice in our lives to get a job but when that job requires you successfully operating an airborne 75 ton piece of equipment where just one missed item on a checklist can spell death for you…your coworker and 100s of people on the ground. Yeah I’m not going to lie on my resume. There’s too much at stake!!! I mean They’re not flipping burgers at Mickey Ds.
I watched for 10 minutes and I knew... copilot not qualified. Everybody understand that ?
1:56:10
There will be a cost involved. Not many pilots will be left on the market if you consider that.
I mean, it's fair. We should only have capable pilots behind the sidesticks and control columns. But at what cost?
Cost #1 - they all will live to see another day. Cost #2- Greedy consumers demanding free deliveries will have to reach for some change in their pockets.
Affirmative action cannot be in a pilot’s seat. Sorry to say it in August 2020. If you are fully qualified no matter who you are - then you belong in the pilot’s seat. If you are getting constant remedial training and attention, you do not belong in the pilot’s seat, No matter the political flavor of the day. Hope it doesn’t get worse now. Pressures on companies will start costing lives. No matter who you are - you are fully qualified - you fly.
Its just shocking to know the employment background of the FO, saw pictures of the individual its just...just.....!!
Its so sad to accept and deal with a culture of Tokens in a highly Civilized society supported by law enforcement, nonetheless as part of this society we have the responsibility to face the true, not all the individuals are fit genetically to carry out and interface with technology aggravating the fact with fake and lies work experiences, the consequences are grave, sadly this fact is extended to all activities.
Luis Ramon Zarate Nogales this is getting dicey. I am squarely on your page and everything you say except the word “genetic“. Yes there are certain cultures that support “overreactive“ emotional responses. They are sweet, delightful cultures but not suitable in the pilot’s seat. Antigua - I would say cultural not genetic.
Its clear that not all board members are paying attention. Multiple topics, previously discussed, brought up again several times.
Yep
1:16:30
Savage
Dear NTSB: I appreciate your work. But Juan Browne already analyzed and solved this crash months ago.
SK...(1:50 hit the nail) ran across Blancolirio channel and have enjoyed his clear explanations (I'm a simple truck driver)...
Gage Whew! Damn glad YOU are not in any pilot’s seat. First time in flight you would crash the plane through your tears. Worse yet, whatever you would feel at the time, you would probably crash the plane because “the people down below deserve it“. Kamikaze dude!
Translation... Atlas didn't give a crap.
If Atlas was unaware of a pilots flight history or training history then their hiring cannot be faulted.
She??
While the FO displayed poor judgment in assessing the aircraft's energy state, within his illusion, the procedure implemented is just as stated in the new UPRT programs implemented both by Boeing and Airbus. Poor pilots keep to memory simple procedural steps that could hijack them at any time, as this case shows. From Boeings FCOM; "Application of forward column pressure (as much as full forward may be required ) should provide sufficient elevator control to produce a nose-down pitch rate" The problem with such verbiage is that poor-performing pilots may misinterpret this and apply too much nose down. This is also common in SIM training at this time, as much emphasis has been given to the new UPRT program as pushed by Boeing and the FAA. The results are as we observed in this accident and this is only the beginning of a new type of accident that will in the future be called. "PILOT INDUCED LOCI"
One can point that this FO didn’t have a great training history but that’s not why THEY pushed the nose over. In fact, if you read the report you’d see that both pilots were given remedial training due to unsatisfactory performance, but they were both trained to satisfaction and we have no reason not to assume they were capable.
My post is intended for intelligent aviators to stop and think this through 1) The FO did not have his hand near the GA switch. I’ve never seen any FO do that and rest assure this question was asked if anyone noticed it on previous flights. If so, that bit of information would’ve been included. 2) The FO’s exclamation “where’s my speed bug” is a massive clue. 3) The Captain’s dead silence is a clue that he too is confused. The NTSB’s portrayal of the Captain seems as though he’s in the lavatory and completely at the will of the FO.
NTSB should be ashamed of themselves
Is this a joke?
You can't fire a quota. Making them airline pilots is great, eh ?
Diversity kills? Is that the point?
Edward Arruda don’t care who you are. Don’t care where you come from. Don’t care what you look like. Don’t care if you are headless. Don’t care if you stink. If you are QUALIFIED - you fly.
@@PAS_2020 You should have surgery from a marginally qualified surgeon...
Jen looks cute up close
Hello my opinion. The day, flight crews will be monitored by video tape or any other means, it will indicate that it is time to take the human out of the machine. Thanks NTSB. Saludos
What? They are already monitored via audio. Also what does having a video recorder installed in the cockpit have to do with flight automation? The two things have nothing to do with each other. As noted train engineers and commercial freight haulers are already routinely monitored via video with sound. What reason exists to make airline pilots exempt from such monitoring?
Pilot unions would never approve that idea.
NovejSpeed3 Trucker and Transit unions aren’t fond of them, and yet we still have them anyways.
@@jaysmith1408 hello the truck and pilot union is the same institution. Yes they will resist the advance of technology replacing human. I believe it is a erroneos strategy for the unions to stop evolution of industry. The trasport industry truck, railroad, aircraft, sea, eventually will be autonomous. The complexities of the machine can not longer be managed. Humans institutions must get ready for the transition. The human error in depressing a button and ending beautiful lives is unacceptable. Thanks for your educated and understanding comments 👍. Saludos
@@pavelavietor1 Pave what qualifications do you have to speak about anything aviation related?
i could be wrong but i believe atlas is operated as a cia front, just like the national air cargo flight that crashed in Afghanistan.
What it sounds like when gavel hits dining room table made in the Philippines...Apparently no one loves member Homandy. That hair. Worthy of an investigation itself.
She's not a pilot. She's a democrat bureaucrat . She has a catchy name, a girl, a bleached blond. What could go wrong ??
So the comments on Harmonday made me go over to the Internet and look her up and you are all right. She is a Democrat Trump nomination - what a combo. One of tTrump’s blonde selections. I don’t think it’s that the Board doesn’t like her - she is just so new I think the Board just doesn’t know her. And she is from the railroads - not airflight. I noticed she was very humble so now that explains it.
“Dining room table made in the Philippines“ that is why I like the RUclips comment section so much. Bunch of comedians.
Hello, note 📝 the first officer didn't killed them, the captain did. My condolences. Thanks to the NTSB you are very good example of what human can accomplish , perfection 👌 👏
What did I miss? Sounds to me like a coincidence of the first officer flying, having to reach for speed brakes under a questionable design of go around switch, the turbulence, and the first officer’s poor reaction to the unforseen circumstances. The captain, not fully expecting either the go around, or the first officer’s poor reaction, did as best of a job as he could do in short time, and the limitations of split controls, which, the manual control of Boeings is often a great attribute, unlike Airbus’, cannot give captain’s controls priority.
@@jaysmith1408 hello you are correct, the Captain failed to respond and regain control. The next step is to remove the reason of this sad catastrophic event from the aircraft control. Thanks for your educated response 👍 👌 saludos
@@jaysmith1408 I don't see how Airbus make a difference here. The Captain for whatever
reason did not take control. If he was un-willing to say 'My Control' in the 76. He likely would not have set the priority takeover control switch in the airbus. Also Split input issues have occurred on Airbuses
(ex Air france 447).
@@pavelavietor1 The co-pilot is supposed to be as good a pilot as the captain is... I don't see why it would be the captain's fault if he can't regain control, especially as pilot monitoring, and if the aircraft is in such an upset position so quickly.
No, the real reason of the crash is an incompetent and cocky F-O, that should never have touched the controls of something bigger than a RC aircraft with such blatant failures under his belt. This is sickening.
The FO “didn’t killed them”???? Did you even watch this video?? He flew the plane into the ground! Totally incompetent and a liar also!!!! ruclips.net/video/GsSNr5DR840/видео.html
A "don't blame the plane" report?
Look at the facts: F/O has problems with his EHDI display,selects alternate symbol gen,BUT NOT alternate data source,,,,(Big mistake!)
F/O presses TO/ga (take off power) TO INCREASE SPEED.
F/O MANUALLY retracts flap lever TO INCREASE SPEED
F/O Points the nose down HARD TO INCREASE SPEED
F/O states on CVR "where's my speed? my speed?"
F/O states on CVR "stall!"
logical conclusion,F/O believed aircraft was flying into a stall,because his instruments TOLD him so.Spcifically, incorrect speed indication on EADI orAirspeed ind.or both.
(probably focused on falling bars on EADI?)
FACT, the somatogravic illusion might convimce you you're nose up or climbing when you're not,it won't tell you you're stalling,only faulty instruments do that.
If I'm wrong,PROVE it,what was the fault he encountered with his electronic flight instruments minutes before the crash?(as confirmed by the captain,no ILLUSION there!)??