Swiss Leibermuster "Alpenflage" Effectiveness PART I
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- PART I of II. In this video we look at the effectiveness of Swiss Leibermuster aka "Alpenflage" in a woodland environment during the late winter/early spring season. Hopefully by watching this video you can get a grasp on whether or not the pattern effectively blends into this type of environment.
PART II: www.youtube.co....
Reference links about the pattern:
camopedia.org/i....
en.wikipedia.or...
A camo that makes you stand out from everyone else *AND* makes you dissapear? didn't know that was possible!
Even as a former Swiss army NCO I am surprised it works so well. This camo is not in use by the Swiss army since the late 80s, early 90s, so I never saw it in action. But saw now one guy wearing in the latest news footage from the Ukraine, seems the surplus is traveling around the world.
Y'all are ahead of the curve when it comes to field gear. I had no idea my parka came included with an integrated backpack our military could learn a thing or two from you guys.
I picked some up in a midewestern military surplus not long ago, I got a field jacket.
Yeah i saw a guy in ukraine wearing it
Where did u see that
VERY EFFECTIVE & underestimated camouflage in environment its meant for. I have a full suit. Late summer & fall when brush & trees turn color...Pacific NW.
Pretty wild. The red disappears at distance and is only noticeable at close range. Looks like the Swiss did their homework.
I know it’s crazy, I never would have thought that.
Swiss design has always prevailed, in my opinion, as one to always come through with great outcomes-especially in art and architecture. But in this case, it is purely color theory at its finest. Red, Yellow, and Blue are Primary Colors & Green, Orange, and Purple are secondary colors. Red and Green are direct complimentary colors coupled with Brown and light Tan. Optically, just like any good camouflage would do, it should blend. You might think that Red might pull you out of from its surrounding colors (which could be in certain lush vegetations) but it actually dulls the other colors down by also breaking apart the lights and dark. In light, Red is the largest wavelength but weakest.
Eleazar Sunglao
Actually the Leibermuster series was a development for the German Army issued to both Wehrmacht & WaffenSS during the last months of the war, early 1945.
Being noticeable at close range is a good thing. that's where friendlies usually are.
Just what I was thinking. This is not a "close-in" color pattern, but works well enough at distance. That said, you loose the rust-red rather quickly.....at least in video.
I get a lot of crap for this camo pattern but I decided to go with a full Swiss load out for airsoft. I have the helmet, backpack, and poncho to match. Great stuff. Very well made and very cheap. It is a unique pattern but not without its uses. I get a lot of comments and weird looks when I wear it but I don't care I love it.
A bit too late, but I also use it for airsoft, and I'm happy that I'm not alone, its great camo, for czech forests it works even better than flecktarn, they always tell me that it's shit camo and I should use flecktarn or vz95, but then they are the ones who can't see me in the field while I can
What team would you be on? Green or tan?
@@bittmanbobby always green.
@@cloud2018 cool. I just bought the jacket today but now I need the pants but they're all huge AF
Where did you find your stuff? I am in desperate need of pants
This stuff is specifically meant for blending into a wet, autumn forest environment, I know this from personal experience using it in my home state of Michigan where we get the leafiest fall seasons.
hi,i'm italian but switzerland and northern italy have the same colors in autumn/falls,lot of acero/maple leafs around in the trees,that camo blend perfectly in a alpine environement(or even in an american forest as u say -some doubt for florida or lese sub tropical states, but could be of a certain purpose however)
Yep, haven't seen any other camo come close to being as good as this for the fall time. Especially up North
@@skrimper eh, flecktarn warrants a mention
Yup I’m from Michigan and I’ve been searching for the right camo for our colorful fall season. This and flecktarn are my options to choose from for sure.
@@MrDarkastar it works along central texas riverbottoms as well i got a set
I have heard it is quite good in the fall season, when colors are at their peak. It was however, made for the alpine environment, as they have a lot of lichens in colors such as the ones in this camo. In the mid-'80's I was in Europe quite a bit, since my family (except me, my mother, father and sister) all lived in what was then Czechoslovakia, and still do. We often took "side trips" to other countries and Switzerland was one of them, I remember seeing the lichens on the rocks there, and they were so colorful, really bright reds, greens, and weird colors you wouldn't expect, like the "pool-green" in the camo. They also did research and found red to be an important color, I assume for their environment, at least. Neat camo, I have quite a bit of it! It was so cheap not long ago, so why not.
Thanks for your input man. Given the quality of Swiss uniforms and equipment, I have no doubt that the Swiss knew what they were doing when they had adopted this pattern.
I'm impressed at how well Swiss alpenflage performed in a U.S. woodland environment. It was especially effective in the shadow's that's were many patterns fail, but it also concealed you pretty at a distance depending on the area and the pattern appears to break up the human outline pretty well. Great video, I love you're video series keep up the good work.
Thanks brother.
wow, i mean i always loved this pattern and i have a lot of it. However i did not realize that it was so effective in a far distance i almost did not see you each time despite its red color, i think red really fucks up the perception of a person being there or not there, i am impressed
MAHAKALAXXXV Yeah, it kind of surprised me as well.
Perfect I never spotted you once...So glad I have had my "Alpenflage" here in the UK....
excellent video , I must say I always felt this pattern a bit loud . but it looks great in this video and I must say your ability to illustrate that was professional especially in the terrain you present it thanks.
Dav Che Thanks for watching.
Dav Che Always thought the same with all that red. Pattern was surprisingly effective.
Alpenflage works great in the Northwest. When I was in HS my friends and I wore it as our paintball teams uniform, mostly because it was super cheap but they were comfortable. We would always be complimented on how well it works, and when we would be moving through the woods we'd have a hard time spotting each other if we took contact. I need to get me another set. :)
I was really surprised when someone first pointed out to me in an image just how effective this camo is as when you first look at it you think it's a weird, failed experiment in camouflage design that couldn't possibly work. Impressive stuff... Interesting history behind it as well, appears to be the closest to a Waffen SS camo design still in use, seeing as the splinter camo predates WWII by about two decades and flecktarn has changed a lot from the peadot it's based on
If you mean that the camouflage is based on the Leibertarn then you are right, but the Leibertarn is not a camouflage for the Waffen SS but a camouflage to replace all camouflage for soldiers in service how far the planning went in the direction of Zeltbahn one does not know so exactly to at least one knows it with the uniforms.
I know this is an old comment, but probably the closest to Waffen-SS camos still in use are flecktarn and other dot-pattern camos. Flecktarn in particular is a direct descendant of the Waffen-SS Dot-44 pattern.
This works really well hear in the appalachian mountains of kentucky in the fall you see alot of red leaves on the ground from sept to late oct.
The red turns grey at distance with these particular camo. You don't even see the red until you come up to the camara
Wow, awesome video. Alpenflage is one of the most underrated patterns. Very effective!
I have a few m70 jackets, they way they built them is staggering. The build quality, features and design is hardly even found on the halo brands of today. The integrated net, the elastic with button holes, internal storage, I just can't believe so much effort went into a field jacket. I have multiple because some of the more popular Swiss milsurp stuff has already gone up in value, the ponchos are a good example keepshooting had them $15 for x4 and you can't find one on eBay for less than $20.
Underrated camouflage. Works great in autumn/winter over here and it's super cheap now. My personal choice would be flecktarn/Alpenflage/Jigsaw during fall and tropical DPM/US Woodland during summer. A mix of those camouflages are a plus. DPM shirt and anything brownish like the belgian jigsaw or fleck' for pants works great during summer. There isn't much need for overpriced digital/crye camo' imho. In terms of camo fatigues, for less than 50€ here you can get the necessary for summer and winter (10€ for belgian flecktarn trouser, shirt and smock vest for example). Sorry for my bad English. Great vids !!
There is another video on youtube that shows this camo in action with the swiss military in the 70's. Die Infantrie or something like that I believe it is called. This camo and clothing is fantastic. Excellent quality. The only environment I have used where it is ineffective is desert and snow. I believe swiss mountain troops wore all white snow outfits. Great job on the video. I hope this might silence some of the critics.
Well done. I'm surprised at how effective it was. Also, knowing how best to employ a given pattern makes a big difference too. Excellent work!
Thanks brother.
Impressed with the effectiveness. The Swiss are in a league by themselves. Thanks brother!
It really works well. Once you are just a few feet away the red just becomes brown. Dead leaves, bark, underbrush... Love it!
thanks for posting and sharing - changed my opinion about this patter of camo. Works good especially at a distance and you hardly can see the red too. Good blend.
Thanks man
You do good, no-nonsense vids on camos that aren't the usual MARPAT/Multicam/ACU/Whatever stuff. I like you, sir, and I'm subscribing to you.
Thanks brother.
Hey, I have a few sets of camo I haven't seen you test yet. Would it be okay if we discussed me either send them in to you or otherwise helping you locate them for testing?
I’m really tied up with work right now so I’m going to be very limited on getting out and filming right now. What patterns are you talking about?
My own personal experience with this pattern of camo in UK environments is it works well. The one I have has a slightly lighter background colour and includes a face veil stored in the hood. Used it a lot for air rifle hunting so you have to get close to the game. My only criticism of this kit is it is very heavy. That said the weight is because of the large number of utility pockets on the smock plus the thickness and build quality .
Overall it's a good piece of kit and cheap so worth having as you may well need a cammo patterns for different terrains.
Never forget though guys and girls that camo is not just about the pattern its also about not having the ahape of a person. Rememebr effective camo is based on the principle of the 5 S's and an M
Shape
Shine
Silloute
Shadow
Spacing-only really applies if your not on your own
Movement
Good review, thank you
Thanks for watching and commenting.
This stuff is great in north Alabama damn near year round in most wooded areas. Great videos, and I feel like less of a nut for hunting in this :) love this pattern
Aric Lamb Thanks for watching.
Excellent video, really surprised how well it performed
Cool vids and one if my favourite camo patterns. I have one of those suits for hunting, built in pockets all over the place. I need the hat and backpack to go with it.
About the only thing I could spot right away in the vid in just a few clips were your hands and face.
My alphenflage suit came with a matching camo face net in the hood.
I'm impressed. actually pretty damn effective for a 60 year old pattern. worth having in kit. even if just for your cache.
With the M70 pull up the hood and down the face net and you REALLY disappear. Amazing how that jacket breaks up the human form into an indistict pile.
Surprisingly good camoflage
that work fairly well thank brent never seen it seen it used
Same here, that was actually the very first time I ever wore it, that’s why I keep looking at so much while I’m talking in my intro lol
ya its different but it dose seem to be made like a tank iv looked at them in surplus stores
Love this pattern. Good uniforms, very well made. Cant beat the price. first ones i bought was priced at 10.00 for 3 tops or 3 bottoms.
Another great test thanks for sharing.
Wow - thought this worked very well; thanks for reviewing it
Impressive.......the camo pattern seems to work quite well. As mentioned below.....the red does seem to disappear at distances. I would say this pattern camo is quite effective. I never would have guessed it......again....Impressive.
I had a poncho in that camo. It does work in the fall in Switserland and the rest of Europe but the US woodland camo I compared it with was much better in more circumstances. The Swiss did keep the camo but in a DPM colors which is much more versatile though often to dark.
BTW, that FAL is SICK!
Thanks brother, I like it too :)
DSA?
No, it’s a Century. DSA FALs are too rich for my blood.
Word! As long as century guns work, I don't knock em. Lol!
Amen!
Very impressive....great camo. Thanks for posting!
No problem, thanks for watching.
Love these videos. From what I understand the Alpenflage pattern was chosen because Swiss military strategists were convinced that if the soviets were to attack during the cold war, it would take place in the Fall, thus their reason for choosing an autumn pattern, this seems to be the same tactical choice the Belgians made by using a purple/yellow dominant pattern in their jigsaw. This "one season" pattern choice also makes sense given the cold war tactic of the Swiss military, which was to hold out in the low lands as long as needed to allow for the population and military to retreat to the alps and resist from there. There, the swiss military had a different uniform for mountain combat which is mostly OD green.
Absolutely excellent camo. Great for autumn/early spring outdoor airsoft games. Will be picking up a set once my local surplus store gets some in. I notice in older videos online they say it’s easy to find but I’ve noticed it’s a rather rare piece of surplus. Also a shame no company is making recreations. If anyone knows of any I would love to know. Swiss engineering at its finest.
Not bad! I certainly didn't think this would work as well as it did. Probably killer in the fall!
I have a uniform in this pattern - fall is where this pattern functions perfectly. If you have something to break up your outline more this renders you practically invisible.
The parkas came with a mesh veil in the alpenflage pattern as well which could be stowed or pulled down with a single button. Fantastic quality - if you don't mind the surplus smell.
Alpenflage appears to be extremely effective for concealment. It does a great Job at breaking up your outline and appears to disperse sunlight reflection in a very naturally way. Good stuff!
Very good video. I'm going to subscribe your channel! I've just bought the jacket and I was looking for something about this camo on the net. Sadly Swiss Army abandoned this pattern in the ninetys, It was a real trademark!
Greetings from Italy!
Uguccione1409 Thanks my friend, glad you enjoyed the video.
Swiss doctrine claim defence tactic which is provided from position above enemy ,on mountains. There are many shrubs called alpenrose between rocks. Hiding behind rocks and shrubs soldier became invisilble in this camo. Its special camo for special environment. Very effective.
Thanks for sharing this video! Great job! That Swiss camo sometimes looks kind of rediculous when you see it in the surplus stores, but your video proves that it is worthy of serious consideration for many parts of the United States. I enjoyed the video...and by the way that FAL looks awesome!!!
Thanks brother, thanks for watching.
greetings from Tennessee. This particular pattern seems to work great in the mid fall and early winter here in my area. Nearly invisible if you find the right patch of brush
Great video as always.
Wow, a surprisingly good pattern despite the red. You ought to do more tests at the location at 4:50. Great job.
You really do a great job on these vids, it's stunning, and you really choose great patterns, thanks a lot, you are, in my opinion the best guy doing camo vids on youtube. Nothing but good info.
Thanks brother, I appreciate it.
I Actually think it performed quite well. i personally think it was harder to spot you in this camo than in the Digital woodland MARPAT camo. This gives a more brownish look than the marpat, i think it's easier to spot your silouette when you are wearing marpat than this one.
And oh, nice videos!
Thanks
When I saw the red I said well you will stick out like a swore thumb! Now I am going to get me a pair of these lol 😆. Thanks man for the demonstration.
Nice test you did here. If I hadn't been looking for you I wouldn't have noticed you for the most part. I have the "heavy" bib uniform with clip attaching pack and bib trousers. Bought it at SG in 1999. Glad it was larger fit at the time because I've grown some. The pattern is fantastic in W.PA. fall foliage for sure.
I agree with you on how good it works here in PA, I myself also got the load bearing uniform and it’s my go to for fall and early winter, a few times last season I had deer and turkey just walk right past me, only a few yards away.
awesome vid i was def surprised by how well it would work i know it Canada it would only work well in the fall when all the leafs are down but not bad!
Works pretty well! Considering not much leaves 🍁 around.
I am really looking forward to the new multi terrain variant of the swiss camo. It's supposed to be issued in 2022.. it looks basically the same as todays camo, but they switched the black with brown. Has kind of a mutlicam feel to it. But I've never seen it in action.
2019* not 2022.
Seems to work pretty well. I have a set and the helmet, too.
I actually just finished filming PART II in the summer with this pattern, unfortunately I haven't had any time to edit the video, so it might be a while before I can get it uploaded.
It's funny I've seen this before and I thought it was a knock off flectarn pattern. Didn't know it was a legit pattern. Cool vid.
Any dead leaves in the shot and it's fantastic, good vid!!
jelkel25 Thanks
Cool test,
generally works well, (its based on a ww2 german pattern)
beyond about 10feet the red just adds to the mottled effect.
I have a couple of the combat/sniper smocks, bombproof but Heavy,
and i have pants in the current swiss camo,
Good deal man.
I come from Switzerland :) Nice to see this:)
hehe :P Bin halt en Top-Comment King :P
Mer kenne üs doch vom Galileo Video 😀
+SkullPl4ys ja voll heyy :D
+WizardStudios hakuna matata
+WizardStudios du bisch ou der meinig dass das Tarnmuster nümme benutzt wird oder ?
I was surprised at how effective this was - I wonder how the red works
The red works very well in autumn when leaves are on the ground. From a distance though the red becomes greyish / muddy.
It works great, surprisingly. Seen it irl.
Just a further comment to what Mad Max said. Red has a very short wavelength and so basically what that means is to your eyes you don't have to go far before it starts to look like brown especially when mixed with green. I would imagine this would also double as an effective urban camo in cities with large amounts of red brick. That seems to have held true from what I read of the German use of the pattern in WW2.
Red River Scout that's an interesting point; I wonder why they don't use it anymore though?
Gary Slegg
Not sure what the initial reason was to change it since if you look at the new pattern the basically just subtracted the red and looks more like WW2 Austrian "pea" pattern camo. Could have been entirely a political decision. But in Switzerland the old Alpenflage picked up serious bad press in the 90s. A bunch of Yuglav militias got there hands on surplus kit and were running around murdering people in their old colours. Was a bit of a PR mess. That is why they destroy all old uniforms in the new pattern and is impossible to find. Many countries followed suit to avoid such PR fiascos.
Perfect for the fall and mountains 👌🏻
Here in TN there are vines in the woods that leaves turn red in the fall. Looks just like that pattern.
This stuff blew my mind. I thought that red would make you stick out like a sore thumb, but if you think about it red is very close in color to brown. And when given some distance, it's like it tricks the human eye to make it blend in perfectly. Even though for me, I love in Florida and the red may be too contrasty.
Самый необычный , симпатичный камуфляж 😊👍 немного томатов на земле с листьями 👍👍👍
where you filmed this don't look exactly "Alpine" like. it is a wonderful camo for North East New York from spring through fall, but is especially effective in the fall when the trees have turned. been using it since 1979 for bow hunting ...
Impessive done better than i thought
I concur, I didn’t have very high hopes for it before I filmed this.
Nice FAL
Thanks
very effective
Impressive
For as red as this camo is, it doesn’t look red at all when seen from a distance. That first scene through me off big time.
i may or may not be able to find bdu's my size."tactical double chunky". but I know I can find those ponchos fairly cheap in that pattern. great video. will subscribe.
Thanks man. Check ebay, I know I have at least seen some XXL listed before. Majorsurplus.com has a pretty good deal on the ponchos too.
Not too shabby, even works ok in Texas. I bet Auscam would work well in your area.
Yeah man, I would love to get my hands on some.
You bet. I love that old duckhunter-style pattern. It is not easy to find. I have a boonie hat in it, but I got it in Australia years ago.
Hello and thanks for this one. I really wanted to see this in action. When you have time, I'd love to see you do Scandinavian camo patterns. Cheers/Skål!
Twsbi Banghorn Thanks brother, it’s all about what I can get my hands on.
Hopefully I see some for a good price down the road.
This camo works, and in fact works well, but not quite for the reasons you might think. In many ways it’s the true ancestor of digital camos.
Essentially there are two elements to an effective visual camo: mimesis and pattern disruption. The red element here isn’t meant to imitate a particular season or environment (leaves, bricks) but to break the perception of areas of solid colour - especially as Brent and others have pointed out, because at combat distances the red is perceived as brown, and in a way that seems to trick the eye into perceiving depth.
The other element - the mimesis one - is around colour theory. As originally designed the camouflage of light tan + olive green + brick red + blue-green + white + black blends to coyote brown with shade gradations (though in fact the Swiss version tended to be printed darker and darker as time went on. The newest iteration is in fact closer to the camouflage as originally devised in 1944-45, but that and the Swiss version feature opaque overprints (less so on the Swiss) which create even subtler colour gradations. The German version was even cleverer, using different diameter rollers for most of the colour layers so the pattern rarely if ever repeated.
It’s a really interesting camo, all in all.
I think this pattern would work very well in the appalachian mountains during fall. Is there any way you can do a video on the function of pockets though? There are more buttons and straps on my alpenflage jacket than I know What to do with -- which is great! Thanks for the videos, cheers!
PS: Where's Waldo? lol
Wearing the Alpenflage field cap as I right this.
And I'm pleasantly surprised at how effective this camo is.
I must say this pattern is pretty effective, despite all the laughs it always gets.
You should do an episode where you talk about what you would run in a combat situation in your area. Camo, gear, gun, etc
I don’t have any plans for that at the moment but maybe in the future. From time to time I throw in a different type of video like “Knowing your enemies weapons” & “Camouflaging yourself, gear, etc.” are two examples I did that are Different than my normal camouflage effectiveness vids.
It works real well in Maryland summer thru fall.
considering primates evolved with a sensitivity to red it is interesting that it works.
My main problem with alpenflage has always been that the cotton it’s made of seems to soak up four times its weight in water.
Love the video. I just recently picked up this type of cammo and I just love it! What type of chest rig are you using? I want something that will work with my set.
I would think this would work great during the fall season in hardwoods when the leaves are turning.
I think the polish army had something like that in the early 60's and 70's. good stuff and works very well. Personally i like the flecktarn the germans use now.
I'm curious, would this, and other camouflages, look that much different to the naked eye as compared to on video, like this? This pattern looks gawdy, but is surprisingly very effective, on video at least.
+BorkaBonum What are the dodgy variables? Camouflage is so confusing, one guy says one type works great, another guy says, no, this one is better. It makes me want to pull out my hair! I'm just looking for the best camouflage to hide from humans in a north American forest environ.
+seattwa Camouflage is not that confusing. First lets clarify what camo is for. It is for those times one is not using cover of some sort. In a properly constructed hide one could wear pretty much anything and remain undetected. This Apenflage in my opinion fails as a camo, you will notice in the video once he becomes exposed the pattern becomes a dark blob and the human silhouette is noticeable. This is what you want to avoid. What you want is a pattern with large contrasting color such as Drakes Old School pattern. With the colors tailored to your environment. This breaks up the human silhouette so that even if you are seen its not immediately obvious what you are. That might not make a lot of sense at first but how humans see is by scanning our environment in very broad terms with our brains filling in details. So even if you are seen people look through you since they don't recognize you as a threat. This doesn't work though when one is specifically looking for someone else and doing a detailed scan section by section of their field of vision.
+Garrett Evans Good explanation!
At distance the red tan and brown make such a natural color
Dis is de Original Taz 83 (83 = 1983, Taz = Tarnanzug)
Excelent video. Thanks.
Thanks for watching
I can imagine this working well in a dense coniferous,or mixed coniferous/deciduous forest,where there is alot of darkness n reddy brown colours. Makes me think of patches of conifer needles.
That's amazing
You should try the Taz 90 and Taz 07 if you can get your hands on it.
Taz 07 is nearly impossible to get.
Is this what would be called "disruptive" pattern? Up close it seems loud but at distance and still it's blends way better than I expected.
Thinking this would work well in the North East, New England area....it wasn't bad
It could work well in Michigan during mid to late fall season
I think this would be more effective in the fall. Also, I could see the red at distance.
This pattern also works just as well in the Mojave or high desert
Might work in the New England forrests
Thank you for your service. Any chance you will test Flecktarn in either desert or woodland patterns?