Someone mentioned this model to me so I ran the theoretical power calcs for the area facing the wind - strangely enough the power curve they present is orders of magnitude over the Betz limit 😂🤦♂️
Thank you so much for creating this video. It provides such valuable insight. I currently have a 19 kW solar array, and I am looking to add some wind generation. In our winter months solar production is not very good. I will keep following and hope to get a wind turbine of some sort soon!
Wow, that rust. If they even save on bolts, what more cheap parts will they use…. Perhaps you can do a disassembly and check the inner components. Thnx for sharing for sharing your progress!
Thanks for the excellent videos and greetings from Finland. I hope that Magnum 5 is better and you are lucky enough to get it working. I've had the Atlas X for a couple of months and it hasn't worked at all. Tesup has not responded well to my messages and the latest suggestion was that I should try the Atlas 4.0 blades. I think that it is not the solution to my problem. Waitin for you videos when the Magnum is working!
The magnum 5 is a Horisontal axis wind turbine, and therefore I could compare the power curve provided by Tesup with the theoretical output of a turbine given by the formula P = 1/2 Cp A V^3. According to my calculations, the area A is to small to give this output at low wind speeds, especially when Cp is typically at 0,2 - 0,4 (and maximum at 0,59 according to betz law). So Tesups turbine is defying the laws of nature - and therefore I doubt you will be able to confirm their power curve, if you in fact Get any power at all. But please assemble it so we Get some real facts here!
TESUP's "magnum 5" uses iSta Breeze's 107cm blades...which can hit the 2kw mark in reasonable wind. I saw 3300w out of a set once but the wind was running 65mph. The idea of getting 5kw out of them is one of the funniest things on TESUP's website.
As a mechanical engineer. There is so many bad design choices made here. Grub screws to connect the sail is the worst idea and should not even have been considered. Really strange to cheap out on the fasteners and not use stainless.
I had a terrible experience with Tesup customer services with damaged goods and very poor quality. With the Magnum 5 how come the rotor diameter is exactly the same as my 2400? They can't cheat the Betz Law. I still haven't got mine up in the air. I had to re weld mast and tail fin. Source my own replacement badly deformed blades. They bent in so much that they would strike the pole. Istabreeze blades are exactly the same 😁. I still have to source replacement slip ring bearings are this one is very stiff and notchy. The charge controller is a Fire Hazzard with loose wires and dump load heater element. Their customer services were that bad I gave up.
I made it myself using a custom sized 8mm plate of aluminium & 9mm marine ply for the base plate under the turbine & F33 stage truss for the tower. F33 stage truss is available, look for brand “global truss f33”. I minimised the number of joints using 2.5m sections and a 1m base section with hinge joints. The base is the heavy duty 800mm square f33 steel base plate. I think all in the tower cost about ~£2900 excluding the concrete, but with fixings, steel cables and other fixings.
@@sustainableorange if I buy the tessup turbine, do I need to get the inverter and the charge controller? I am also isn't sling solar system inverter and battery, people from solar said they can hook it up if I have all the parts and it's compatible. Does it work to be hooked up to the inverter I get hybrid from. The solar company? Also can it be hooked up to the battery? Basically make the whole system work as one? If so what I need to buy? The inverter that comes with it? And the charge controller? Thank you!
The biggest issue with the hybrid is the atlas output is only 120vac, the magnum is 220vac so the magnum will start generating sooner and more consistently. It also has a bigger swept area. The build quality has not been good on my magnum, atlas 4 or charge controller unfortunately. I’ve had issues with them all.
@@sustainableorange so i was thinking one separate 5kw inverter for my panels and 10kw batteries, and was thinking buying the turbine with it's own inverter and hooking it up to the battery, question is, do I need to buy the charge controller? If so where I can buy it. So the solar will have it's own inverter and the turbine it's own inverter, can I hook both to the batteries?. Wind in my area is okay.
You need the charge controller (or a 3rd party one) to convert the 3 phase 120v or 220v ac to dc for the inverter to convert to single phase 240vac if you plan to grid link it. Alternatively you can go direct to the batteries as DC from the charge controller which can take the 3ph 120vac or 220vac to 12 to 48v dc into your batteries direct. Really depends. My Tesla powerwalls want 240vac input, so I have to go 3ph 220vac to 72v dc (charge controller) into a 5kw inverter 72vdc to 240vac into the house side of my grid isolator automatic transfer switch.
hello just looking at your last up date i must say not what i wanted to see as i was about to look in to a atlas x turbine . can you tell me what inverter you are using to feed the power in to your house . and good look with the new turbine
I’m using the Delta 5kw inverter supplied by Tesup. The key to a wind turbine inverter is having a low voltage start up. The 5kw delta starts up as low as 30v for 1 minute. So you only need to ensure the voltage stays above that for a short time.
@@henrikl9834 TESUP doesn't have support because they don't actually make any of their products outside of some cowling and their VAWT vanes. They can't support anything. What he's going to get with the Magnum is a $1500 iSta Breeze i2000 and "TESUP" clamshell covering it...I'd bet a dollar the "220v" is just a 48v turbine they're letting free-wheel. The idea of getting 5kw from those 107cm iSta Breeze blades is laughable...my Heli can't do it with twice the swept area and real blades.
@@sustainableorange It's too late for the folks that have paid good money for very inferior goods and service. Also, Mesci has the rest of the world to con. A few folks in a global market is a big scam. Hopefully the new powers Companies House have been given will allow them to officially investigate operations in other countries.... Oh, and Mesci has already created new companies in the UK using basically the same name!.. 'Tesup Ltd', 'Tesup Distribution ltd' both earlier this year and last year established Tesup Digital Solutions Ltd. ALL dodgy and seriously smells of Tax avoidance.
Is there any further update from here? How is your turbine doing. I liked the look of the Tesup turbines but researching I've found a few angry reviews and within your videos the manufacture doesn't look good at all. I am having second thoughts currently on buying from them. I'm not as technically minded as yourself so I wouldn't be able to resolve the same issues you have had to.
I will be swapping them over to stainless fixings, however I wanted to run the system “out of the box” first before diving into tweaks and trying to improve it. It is a great suggestion though.
Did it take 5 months to get your original order, and was it incomplete like mine was? A good point about the rust, I might even change those before my installation. You could put locktite on the grub screws that will keep them in place when the unit vibrates.
hello again just thinking about your turbine is there a safety brake in the motor to stop it spining to fast in high winds and if so could it be that thats making the motor bind there by stopping it spinning
It has an electrical brake which effectively just shorts together the 3 phases. This is a pretty effective brake. This is built into the charge controller. There is no mechanical brake though. That’s said these turbines are allegedly rated to about 110mph/58m/s wind speeds. So in the U.K. it’s unlikely I would ever have to take it down.
Unfortunately Ive ended up with an Atlas 4.0, luckily I took this as an exchange for something I couldnt use so took the chance. I have the full 48v kit but my battery is 24v. Can I swap out the charge controller for a 24v ? And any help on what to use would be gratefully received.......Top video....thanks
I designed and built it myself from stage components. I used global truss branded F33 truss I purchased from a local music/events company. Nice and modular and easy to get spares for whilst being very strong.
i bought an Atlas 4 turbine. it took 2 months to arrive. installed, no output from the turbine. Raised a support ticket and had a request to sent data wehich i did. 3 weeks later after chasing no response. Terrible after service. I had one nightod strong winds and the bolts snapped on the blades, they are so small and poor quality.
It was a warranty replacement, so FoC. They also included a 2nd charge controller incase that was the issue too. Will document my findings don’t worry!
Thanks super stuff. Just researching adding wind to my solar panels, as it seems like a natural progression and we never seem to be short of wind here in the south east of England. Does anybody know if there is some wind speed stats per postcode for the UK ?. Similar to solar ?
I would strongly recommend getting a weather station with an anemometer and put it in the location you are considering placing a turbine for at least 6 months-12months before you invest in one.
*All practical tests show that small wind turbines hardly generate any electricity! And only at very high costs!* Because there is hardly any wind close to the ground. It is also extremely gusty, which usually reduces the service life very much. Only if you need to be self-sufficient from the power grid, you should install the largest possible wind turbine on a high tower for the winter. *With solar panels, on the other hand, you can reliably generate green electricity for 25 years at approx. 3-10 cent/kWh!*
So Tesup are effectively confirming themselves that the Atlas is not fit for purpose. Wonder if they'll be reaching out to all their other disappointed customers and offering the same level of service? It's a crying shame this video series has now gone in a direction away from vertical axis. People have been wanting to know if there is a sub £5,000 vertical axis option available to UK house owners that kicks in at lowish wind speeds and which, being a VAWT, won't produce any noise.
I don’t know if they are confirming that. They said that based on the data I provided that the Magnum would be a better fit. I’m not a wind turbine expert or manufacturer so I will defer to their knowledge on the situation and follow their guidance. I agree it’s a shame we are moving to a HWAT as I really wanted the VAWT to work out, and I (perhaps naively thought) VAWT would be better for more turbulent flows which is what I believe I have. But the data shows we are often exceeding 10m/s which should be a really good level of power on either device. The magnum is apparently designed to start up at 3m/s compares to the atlas which requires 5m/s so in theory at least the Magnum should provide far more time in its working window. We will find out!
As far as I know there are affordable alternatives. This guy has nothing else to do than testing wind turbines: www.youtube.com/@ToysforWatts/videos Tesup is one of his great disappointments, but he actually has a home build one that seems to have a lot of torque.
Hasn't been up for more than a couple months and looks and having problems consistent with many years service. That thing is complete shit. From someone who's owned Air 403 on a Sailboat. The Magnum 5 is going to be another noisy ass Turbine.
It’s a real shame because I feel like if they used stainless steel fixings, improved the weather proofing and made it IP67 rated it would probably solve all their issues & it wouldn’t add much to the cost in the grand scheme of things. I’ve spend £4800 so far for the kit & tower. Will have a video with the full cost breakdown in the future too.
Thank you for sharing your Tesup experiences. Now have ordered a AtlasX7 turbine. I have received and paid the invoice, received a conformation and the status on the website is 'Shipment in progress'. I have tried to contact Tesup via mail/App and website but untill now I only have received conformations via mail on my questions but no answers. Can you tell me how to come into contact with Tesup? Thanks Tjerk
I found the best way was to reach out to employees via linked in. I have found support was hard to get hold of initially. However once I did manage to get a reply they were quite helpful.
Hell I was also looking to buy a Atlas x7. After this review I won't even bother. I have also watched another guy's video showing that the charge controllers they sent him has a short on them which automatically applies the electronic brake. So once connected it automatically brakes the turbine without even starting to spin.
@@enricothorne6790 The X7 is one of Tesups latest turbine models with lots of improvements. Hopefully I will be happy next month when my X7 is expected to arrive ;-)
I found via linked in gave me the best way to get hold of people and get support contact. Alternatively there is a customer chat on their website that I did manage to get a response from too.
You’re going to have a complete failure again if you had put up that seem atlas turbine. If you had watched my videos, you would’ve seen the modifications that you needed to do to the axis of the shaft and the flange bearing. Sorry to see you failed. I have the other hand had success, finally after modifications. Which no longer makes it a Tesup design. But they’ve also banned me from emails and customer service, they will not reply to their fraudulent claims about start up speeds,,, you’ll never get that low start up speed with a vertical. It took 35 mile an hour winds in real world testing on video for that original atlas X to spin. That’s why they immediately went to a horizontal turbine and gave it to you.
Every time I consider buying a Tessup turbine I remember to check the reviews & results in the same outcome. ‘Not today Tessup’
Someone mentioned this model to me so I ran the theoretical power calcs for the area facing the wind - strangely enough the power curve they present is orders of magnitude over the Betz limit 😂🤦♂️
Thank you so much for creating this video. It provides such valuable insight. I currently have a 19 kW solar array, and I am looking to add some wind generation. In our winter months solar production is not very good. I will keep following and hope to get a wind turbine of some sort soon!
Wow, that rust. If they even save on bolts, what more cheap parts will they use…. Perhaps you can do a disassembly and check the inner components.
Thnx for sharing for sharing your progress!
Well the thing is... this is a very cheap wind turbine. Compare it to anything else on the market and they are at least two times cheaper.
Thanks for the excellent videos and greetings from Finland. I hope that Magnum 5 is better and you are lucky enough to get it working. I've had the Atlas X for a couple of months and it hasn't worked at all. Tesup has not responded well to my messages and the latest suggestion was that I should try the Atlas 4.0 blades.
I think that it is not the solution to my problem.
Waitin for you videos when the Magnum is working!
Try istabreeze wind turbines
The magnum 5 is a Horisontal axis wind turbine, and therefore I could compare the power curve provided by Tesup with the theoretical output of a turbine given by the formula P = 1/2 Cp A V^3. According to my calculations, the area A is to small to give this output at low wind speeds, especially when Cp is typically at 0,2 - 0,4 (and maximum at 0,59 according to betz law).
So Tesups turbine is defying the laws of nature - and therefore I doubt you will be able to confirm their power curve, if you in fact Get any power at all.
But please assemble it so we Get some real facts here!
TESUP's "magnum 5" uses iSta Breeze's 107cm blades...which can hit the 2kw mark in reasonable wind. I saw 3300w out of a set once but the wind was running 65mph. The idea of getting 5kw out of them is one of the funniest things on TESUP's website.
As a mechanical engineer. There is so many bad design choices made here.
Grub screws to connect the sail is the worst idea and should not even have been considered.
Really strange to cheap out on the fasteners and not use stainless.
I had a terrible experience with Tesup customer services with damaged goods and very poor quality.
With the Magnum 5 how come the rotor diameter is exactly the same as my 2400? They can't cheat the Betz Law.
I still haven't got mine up in the air. I had to re weld mast and tail fin. Source my own replacement badly deformed blades. They bent in so much that they would strike the pole. Istabreeze blades are exactly the same 😁.
I still have to source replacement slip ring bearings are this one is very stiff and notchy.
The charge controller is a Fire Hazzard with loose wires and dump load heater element.
Their customer services were that bad I gave up.
thank,s for that i will look into that
Hey man love your videos, I was thinking installing the x7 tessup turbine, where did I you get that pole for the turbine? Can it be bought? Thank you.
I made it myself using a custom sized 8mm plate of aluminium & 9mm marine ply for the base plate under the turbine & F33 stage truss for the tower.
F33 stage truss is available, look for brand “global truss f33”. I minimised the number of joints using 2.5m sections and a 1m base section with hinge joints. The base is the heavy duty 800mm square f33 steel base plate.
I think all in the tower cost about ~£2900 excluding the concrete, but with fixings, steel cables and other fixings.
@@sustainableorange if I buy the tessup turbine, do I need to get the inverter and the charge controller? I am also isn't sling solar system inverter and battery, people from solar said they can hook it up if I have all the parts and it's compatible.
Does it work to be hooked up to the inverter I get hybrid from. The solar company? Also can it be hooked up to the battery? Basically make the whole system work as one?
If so what I need to buy? The inverter that comes with it? And the charge controller?
Thank you!
The biggest issue with the hybrid is the atlas output is only 120vac, the magnum is 220vac so the magnum will start generating sooner and more consistently. It also has a bigger swept area.
The build quality has not been good on my magnum, atlas 4 or charge controller unfortunately.
I’ve had issues with them all.
@@sustainableorange so i was thinking one separate 5kw inverter for my panels and 10kw batteries, and was thinking buying the turbine with it's own inverter and hooking it up to the battery, question is, do I need to buy the charge controller? If so where I can buy it. So the solar will have it's own inverter and the turbine it's own inverter, can I hook both to the batteries?. Wind in my area is okay.
You need the charge controller (or a 3rd party one) to convert the 3 phase 120v or 220v ac to dc for the inverter to convert to single phase 240vac if you plan to grid link it.
Alternatively you can go direct to the batteries as DC from the charge controller which can take the 3ph 120vac or 220vac to 12 to 48v dc into your batteries direct.
Really depends.
My Tesla powerwalls want 240vac input, so I have to go 3ph 220vac to 72v dc (charge controller) into a 5kw inverter 72vdc to 240vac into the house side of my grid isolator automatic transfer switch.
hello just looking at your last up date i must say not what i wanted to see as i was about to look in to a atlas x turbine .
can you tell me what inverter you are using to feed the power in to your house .
and good look with the new turbine
I’m using the Delta 5kw inverter supplied by Tesup. The key to a wind turbine inverter is having a low voltage start up. The 5kw delta starts up as low as 30v for 1 minute. So you only need to ensure the voltage stays above that for a short time.
Ive fitted one as a favour for a customer. Our tessup experience is very lacking, to say the least.
Same here, impossible to get an answer from them.
@@henrikl9834 TESUP doesn't have support because they don't actually make any of their products outside of some cowling and their VAWT vanes. They can't support anything. What he's going to get with the Magnum is a $1500 iSta Breeze i2000 and "TESUP" clamshell covering it...I'd bet a dollar the "220v" is just a 48v turbine they're letting free-wheel. The idea of getting 5kw from those 107cm iSta Breeze blades is laughable...my Heli can't do it with twice the swept area and real blades.
@@henrikl9834 I found reaching out to them via linked-in helped me get answers initially.
@@sustainableorange where on linked in can you contact tesup? I can’t see how you can and they not answering the emails
Tesup Electronics Ltd has now been forced into liquidation. Details have just been added to Companies House.
Probably for the best unfortunately.
@@sustainableorange It's too late for the folks that have paid good money for very inferior goods and service. Also, Mesci has the rest of the world to con. A few folks in a global market is a big scam. Hopefully the new powers Companies House have been given will allow them to officially investigate operations in other countries.... Oh, and Mesci has already created new companies in the UK using basically the same name!.. 'Tesup Ltd', 'Tesup Distribution ltd' both earlier this year and last year established Tesup Digital Solutions Ltd. ALL dodgy and seriously smells of Tax avoidance.
Is there any further update from here?
How is your turbine doing. I liked the look of the Tesup turbines but researching I've found a few angry reviews and within your videos the manufacture doesn't look good at all. I am having second thoughts currently on buying from them. I'm not as technically minded as yourself so I wouldn't be able to resolve the same issues you have had to.
Hi :) Good job ! :)
Regards - Paul P.
Just an inquiry why not have a rust repellent sprayed or something of a weather coating to prevent it from rusting
I will be swapping them over to stainless fixings, however I wanted to run the system “out of the box” first before diving into tweaks and trying to improve it. It is a great suggestion though.
Did it take 5 months to get your original order, and was it incomplete like mine was? A good point about the rust, I might even change those before my installation. You could put locktite on the grub screws that will keep them in place when the unit vibrates.
Yes, ordered in March, delivered Turbine and charge controller in June, inverter in October.
hello again just thinking about your turbine is there a safety brake in the motor to stop it spining to fast in high winds and if so could it be that thats making the motor bind there by stopping it spinning
It has an electrical brake which effectively just shorts together the 3 phases. This is a pretty effective brake. This is built into the charge controller.
There is no mechanical brake though. That’s said these turbines are allegedly rated to about 110mph/58m/s wind speeds. So in the U.K. it’s unlikely I would ever have to take it down.
Unfortunately Ive ended up with an Atlas 4.0, luckily I took this as an exchange for something I couldnt use so took the chance. I have the full 48v kit but my battery is 24v. Can I swap out the charge controller for a 24v ? And any help on what to use would be gratefully received.......Top video....thanks
can i ask where did you get your tower from i have look on the internet but can not find any
I designed and built it myself from stage components. I used global truss branded F33 truss I purchased from a local music/events company.
Nice and modular and easy to get spares for whilst being very strong.
Hey, I'm thinking about investing in a width to a wind turbine and even selling them. What do you think is it a good pot to indoors or no
i bought an Atlas 4 turbine. it took 2 months to arrive. installed, no output from the turbine. Raised a support ticket and had a request to sent data wehich i did. 3 weeks later after chasing no response. Terrible after service. I had one nightod strong winds and the bolts snapped on the blades, they are so small and poor quality.
Did you have to pay for the magnum 5 or did they give it for free because of no output from turbine ?
It was a warranty replacement, so FoC. They also included a 2nd charge controller incase that was the issue too.
Will document my findings don’t worry!
Thanks super stuff. Just researching adding wind to my solar panels, as it seems like a natural progression and we never seem to be short of wind here in the south east of England. Does anybody know if there is some wind speed stats per postcode for the UK ?. Similar to solar ?
You could try:
www.solarinsiders.co.uk/cWindspeed/lookup
Bear in mind you really need to be at a height of at least 10m to get a consistent breeze.
Also:
www.rensmart.com/RenSMARTWindReport#location
I would strongly recommend getting a weather station with an anemometer and put it in the location you are considering placing a turbine for at least 6 months-12months before you invest in one.
I am impressed, congratulations. Can you tell me how much it actually produces
*All practical tests show that small wind turbines hardly generate any electricity! And only at very high costs!*
Because there is hardly any wind close to the ground. It is also extremely gusty, which usually reduces the service life very much.
Only if you need to be self-sufficient from the power grid, you should install the largest possible wind turbine on a high tower for the winter.
*With solar panels, on the other hand, you can reliably generate green electricity for 25 years at approx. 3-10 cent/kWh!*
I just bought the ATLAS X7 im hopeing i can use it to power my travel trailer.
I wouldn't send back the other one either, absolute cowboys
You have rendement from dis ?
So Tesup are effectively confirming themselves that the Atlas is not fit for purpose.
Wonder if they'll be reaching out to all their other disappointed customers and offering the same level of service?
It's a crying shame this video series has now gone in a direction away from vertical axis. People have been wanting to know if there is a sub £5,000 vertical axis option available to UK house owners that kicks in at lowish wind speeds and which, being a VAWT, won't produce any noise.
I don’t know if they are confirming that. They said that based on the data I provided that the Magnum would be a better fit.
I’m not a wind turbine expert or manufacturer so I will defer to their knowledge on the situation and follow their guidance.
I agree it’s a shame we are moving to a HWAT as I really wanted the VAWT to work out, and I (perhaps naively thought) VAWT would be better for more turbulent flows which is what I believe I have.
But the data shows we are often exceeding 10m/s which should be a really good level of power on either device.
The magnum is apparently designed to start up at 3m/s compares to the atlas which requires 5m/s so in theory at least the Magnum should provide far more time in its working window. We will find out!
As far as I know there are affordable alternatives.
This guy has nothing else to do than testing wind turbines:
www.youtube.com/@ToysforWatts/videos
Tesup is one of his great disappointments, but he actually has a home build one that seems to have a lot of torque.
That level of corrosion on something that is designed to be outside isn't acceptable.
Hasn't been up for more than a couple months and looks and having problems consistent with many years service. That thing is complete shit. From someone who's owned Air 403 on a Sailboat. The Magnum 5 is going to be another noisy ass Turbine.
Heard absolutely nothing good about the tessup company. Every review I've seen has been bad also.
Try istabreeze wind turbines.
It’s next on my list!
You saved me from buying 25 tesup 4. Such poor quality
It’s a real shame because I feel like if they used stainless steel fixings, improved the weather proofing and made it IP67 rated it would probably solve all their issues & it wouldn’t add much to the cost in the grand scheme of things. I’ve spend £4800 so far for the kit & tower. Will have a video with the full cost breakdown in the future too.
Scammers, look at videos about this product
The design is really bad 😔
I feel sorry for anyone who buys this guys junk. He is world famous for his usless junk. He should have stayed in Turkey.
Looks like a piece of shit with fake power, not stable construction
Yep, it’s not good and has not lasted. Can not recommend it at all unfortunately.
TESUP is trash co
Thank you for sharing your Tesup experiences. Now have ordered a AtlasX7 turbine. I have received and paid the invoice, received a conformation and the status on the website is 'Shipment in progress'. I have tried to contact Tesup via mail/App and website but untill now I only have received conformations via mail on my questions but no answers. Can you tell me how to come into contact with Tesup? Thanks Tjerk
I found the best way was to reach out to employees via linked in. I have found support was hard to get hold of initially. However once I did manage to get a reply they were quite helpful.
Hell I was also looking to buy a Atlas x7. After this review I won't even bother. I have also watched another guy's video showing that the charge controllers they sent him has a short on them which automatically applies the electronic brake. So once connected it automatically brakes the turbine without even starting to spin.
This matches my experience.
@@enricothorne6790 The X7 is one of Tesups latest turbine models with lots of improvements. Hopefully I will be happy next month when my X7 is expected to arrive ;-)
It certainly looks like they have listened to much of the concern and criticism which is great.
I see that you said you contact costumers service I am trying gets contact costumers service but there no email or phone number ho did you...
I found via linked in gave me the best way to get hold of people and get support contact. Alternatively there is a customer chat on their website that I did manage to get a response from too.
You’re going to have a complete failure again if you had put up that seem atlas turbine. If you had watched my videos, you would’ve seen the modifications that you needed to do to the axis of the shaft and the flange bearing. Sorry to see you failed. I have the other hand had success, finally after modifications. Which no longer makes it a Tesup design. But they’ve also banned me from emails and customer service, they will not reply to their fraudulent claims about start up speeds,,, you’ll never get that low start up speed with a vertical. It took 35 mile an hour winds in real world testing on video for that original atlas X to spin. That’s why they immediately went to a horizontal turbine and gave it to you.