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@Szilard Molnar yes I've noticed that with Steven. Even tho I agree with some of his views there was this "change my mind" episode where they discussed socialism. The other guy had great arguments and made me reconsider socialism, but Steven ran out of them and just started going about how the kid made a comment with the word "autistic" and just stopped the discussion. You can find the video on RUclips I think. But that showed how he didn't want his mind changed, but to just "shove his opinion in the other guys throat".
"That doesn't matter because we will be gone in 1 trillion years." That argument was so stupid, he is justifying practically every atrocity that happened, is happening and will happen in the world
Politicians communicate the way they do because it works. Zingers and complex poblems boiled down to an single line is much more easy to communicate to the masses than long explanations. It sucks, but should it be otherwise we need to reinvent political debates
I'm actually okay with some zings. The problem is politicians can spout some mind-washing stupidity and empty platitudes that appeal to "heart" rather than rationale.
Unrelated but I wish I had the ability to just talk and express my ideas clearly without messing up my words or loosing my train of thought. Must be nice
I’m like partially educated in anything I do so I usually just lose confidence in my argument and end up agreeing with the person I’m debating against 😂 these days I’ve learnt to just shut my mouth and listen as I’ve realised I can learn everything I need to know without necessarily debating! If I find myself headed in that direction I simply just flip the script and just start asking questions instead!
You can actually practice that :) Start small by expressing what you think and why about whatever issue (say where you'd like to eat with friends, how you feel after a conversation or movie) in one or two sentences, starting with your opinion or feeling, then followed by why you feel that way or how it affects you. It might be weird at first but you'll get used to speaking in full sentences including your reason. It will not only make you sound smart in staged debates but make communication with your friends or relationship partners easier and more clear, potentially bettering your relationships with them and also get you in touch with your own ability to justify feelings or opinions even just to yourself :) If you have no one to practice with, even exploring your feelings or opinions in your own head like that can make a difference. Also, there is no shame in saying "I'm not sure about this, I don't know enough about this topic to have a strong opinion" (maybe followed by "but i do know about this related issue...") and there is no shame in asking questions in order to learn and form an opinion. You can do everything you want to :) Even voicing your wish to get better at this in the comments here is a real first step.
buddy on the left didn't have a clue what he was getting himself into. You think he's educated? His arguments were weak and not well thought out (just one indication was his revision and contradictions). His counterarguments even weaker. He was able to articulate himself quite clearly, but that's more rhetoric than it is knowledge.
@@orngpeelr9017 I'm not sure about you, but I don't have my arguments for every conceivable debate ready 24/7 in case I am invited to one spontaneously. Considering the guy on the left did this impromptu compared to Ed, who had arguments prepared in advance, I think he held his ground very well.
@@orngpeelr9017 honestly some of ed's counter arguments were childishly nitpicky. He cut the guy off a few times, not much, but when he did i felt that it was only to hinder the dudes thought process as he explained his points.
@@99999george he wasn't invited to a debate though? Out of his own volition he chose to make himself look foolish. You're crediting a guy for making an attempt and I would agree with you IF that attempt was necessary. No one forced him to debate Ed though. He chose to not bring any actual arguments.
@@t-dollas5442 that seems more like a projection than it does to be a logical conclusion given that Ed was clearly "winning the argument" for the lack of a better phrase. So he'd have no need to throw the guy off. Not to mention that the guy did the exact same thing, but ok.
Even as a non-religious person I find it sad that so many people think everything is meaningless and we are “just” a bunch of atoms floating randomly in space.
Nothing about that statement is incorrect though. We are just a bunch of atoms floating in space and for practical purposes animal suffering is just an emotion inside the heads of humans. One of the reasons for the invention of religions is probably to give humans the feeling of a higher sense of purpose.
I think this and I’m vegan. Life is amazing and a gift but that doesn’t mean we aren’t just a bunch of atoms floating in space :) life has no meaning so u have to make some
I'm non-religious and think we are just a bunch of atoms floating in space. It makes life so much more precious knowing that it's random and you've been given the gift of life.
민지김 I’m not saying the guy on the left looks healthy but if you think that vegan looks healthy you really are in denial. Look how PALE (and skinny) he looks.
@@semsm192 first of all I basically described a college student that was nothing against him lol and second of all people can be naturally skinny and being pale has very little to do with your diet
I love how calmly this guy listens to and explains his thoughts on veganism, I am trying hard to learn how to do just that. Our world needs to learn how to listen and talk to each other without becoming angry
I’m sure it helps a lot that this guy didn’t just show up to troll him with low brow or subjective comments. He’s articulate and calm. His points weren’t exactly accurate and honestly a pretty depressing, but he’s not throwing around comments like “hehe bacon good. me caveman”
24:27 "the reason why people aren't hurting other people is because they would be punished for that" - what a depressing thought that everyone on the world would just lose any kind of morale and humanity once no one would be punished. he took "the purge" way too seriously.
It's true if you look back even 500 years, people gathered by the hundreds to watch public executions as a form of entertainment. There's a reason we need laws.
@@scumbag9714 , nah, people were being executed BECAUSE of laws. Look to our closest relatives and you'll see that we, as social beings, aim for harmony within our groups. Sure, fear of punishment can factor, but humans are an animal that bonds, nurtures and cares just as fiercely as it fights.
@Bobson Dugnut there are many types of feminists. I happen to live with a woman who does a very good job of explaining why she is a feminist and why her ideas work and often how many of the loud feminists miss the point. Don't allow the loudest and most radical of any bunch form your view on a movement or a group of other people.
More or less. He completely bailed out on morality, also didn't make a lot of sense in nuances, like saying we have control over parts of the universe or borderline-claiming animals might not be sentient beings. The part that angers me though is how he refers to animal products being used in many other ways than nourishment. Yes, having a pigs heart-valve might safe your life, while breeding and feeding and slaughtering a pig for food not only hurts your environment but also your heart. TBF, he was on the premise of "it is my choice" - which is more than you can say of pretty much anyone else. They might not have had enough time to get into that but the space he made for the vegan standpoint to park into was way too huge. In general, good debate and credit to the guy.
This is one of my favorite debates. I wish Ed had pushed the other guy on the ramifications of the "it's illegal so I don't do it" line of thinking. In some countries, it's perfectly legal to murder someone if they are LGBTQ+. As Ed said, legality doesn't equal morality.
@@-rr-4172 Nothing matters so anything goes. It seems like morality is subjective, but since that leaves us free to decide for ourselves, I choose kindness over might makes right.
@@hollieinan8329 Exactly, which also means 'meat eaters' have just as much right to kill and eat an animal as you choosing to not to consume (or own?) anything that has resulted in an animal's death.
@@-rr-4172 And to do anything else they want to anyone, including all the worst things people do to each other--rape, torture, murder, etc. It also means people who dislike others suffering have just as much "right" to stop the people who hurt animals from hurting them. If we decide anything goes then... anything goes.
@@hollieinan8329 Welp, that's the truth. Anything does go......If you're a loony. I cant speak for others but i can speak for myself so i shall; morality is totally relative yes, but humanitarianism is not. Here's a thought exercise: since morality is relative, why isn't it ok to take someone else's life? Because as a human being, i can understand other human beings, recognizing that i dont want to die AND killing another of my own species would ultimately do the opposite of prolonging the survival and wellbeing of my species.
It is sad in the sense it emphasizes how rare being civil is. It should be a given that debates are to be civil, but many times it doesn’t end up that way.
@Norm T which is what makes it sad. We stand on the shoulder of giants, great philosopher, world conquerors, and from that we're "refreshed", however you want to put it, that a civil discourse is in play today. THAT is extremely sad. What we may have advanced in technology, we still lack on our foundations. That is fucking terrible. We haven't come far. At all.
Immorality!!! animals don't fuckin use immorality when they kill, if they did, they would've shown it a long time ago.. and I don't mean animals raised by human intervention..😒
I think a lot of people are impressed by their intellect but I do get your point. I feel like a lot of conversations should and could be debates but most of the time they turn into arguments as people struggle to accept an opposing view or just struggle to agree to disagree. A lot of people want everyone to have the same views as them (including a lot of vegans) but as long as their views don't create immoral or unethical actions then try to change their mind but if they don't want to, agree to disagree.
I think that it is because although both people have a strong belief in their argument, neither are so arrogant that they are unwilling to accept they maybe wrong.
Most vegans (including myself) have dealt with non-vegans arguing with you saying "oh but meat is so good" or "you don't get enough protein", but watching a non vegan calmly debate with a vegan and not just yell and be ignorant. This is very refreshing!
Right. And it’s been proven that centenarians have a significantly LOW protein diet, with high vegetable intake, and that is the secret to long term living. This has been scientifically proven. It seems that in the “western world” we are obsessed with protein. I’m not entirely sure why. But it’s absolutely killing the people slowly who believe this.
My fear is that I have seen a lot of vegans look sick looking , thats why I veer towards vegitatian or pescitarian way of living. Vegans you have to take a ton of supplements that seem to make it more work to be vegan as opposed to vegitatian
@@danacampbell2960 The only supplement vegans need is B-12. In reality, B-12 is hard to get at all. The unhealthy vegan is the minority The unhealthy omnivore is the majority
I am from Brazil, and I don’t think there is a cheaper and more practical country to be vegan in the world. Not only well developed countries have easy access to a plant based diet, people just talk about things they have no knowledge of.
Eu to tao feliz pra ler isso : ) Nao sou brasileiro, mas tenho **muitas conexoes ai (familha e amigos), e todos falam q nao e possivel ai. Q eu devo nao o mencionar, ou q eu to ignorante / nao entendo as realidades brasileiras
@@Brandon-os3qr :) imagina, é mais que possível. Inclusive temos restaurantes veganos maravilhosos! As pessoas só querem criticar. Eu vivo na Europa hoje e posso garantir que é muito mais fácil e barato ser vegano no Brasil.
The man was wrong. Appealing to emotions is far better than appealing to logic if you want to see things change. It is what it is. Humans aren't robots.
Johannes Westman But we actually build them robots. Every aspect of a robot is embedded inside our skull and has to coexist with the other emotional part. A Human is both of those parts, and the logical part is the one that made this exact conversation able to happen. Or do you think computers, networks and microchips were invented by the logic of our emotions? don’t fool yourself, both parts are critical and are the ones that makes us whole
Whimah Whe However u could put emotions above logic cuz emotions accept certain morals and customs.. logic just accept the truth and efficiency As we all know the truth isnt always the solution.. and efficiency can be so immoral.. Watch psycho pass a good anime for robot/human situations
Bob Kundi Not quite. Logic is more like a framework. You need values (as x = 1) to make it work. You can use the truth, which I advise, but you could use your own values, such as a moral system ruled by emotions. The status of actual truth of such value is not related with the status of truth inside the logic framework, that’s why we can think, you are using the framework filling the values with whatever is convenient in order to create a simulation. You should learn programming, this becomes much clear if you know how to code :)
A debate by definition is a discussion (heated or not), so if someone is just screaming at someone and/or not listening, presenting counter arguments, than it is not a debate.
Can Somer i dont think intelligence is a factor to this calm discussion.. i mean u can have a ragy and aggressive conversation between 2 high intellectual people... ( i think intelligence is determined by the intellectual ability) however im convienced its not the intelligency that make calm conversations its more the personality and the will.. what defins being intelligent anyway.. 🤔
Great balanced debate. Really good to see, guys. I went vegan when I had this thought - "If you want to eat it, you have to kill it yourself." I realised that if I'm faced with a pig, sheep, or cow, I'm more likely to cuddle it than kill it. Haven't touched animal products since.
Same with me... Majority of the people can't see their food being killed...but they paradoxically still eat a lot of meat ..Those who comeout of this and resolve the paradox are now vegans...
I like how there both respectful and have facts and they aren’t getting triggered. Edit: to all y’all pressed about me spelling a word wrong. My bad I didn’t realize this was a spelling class.
partially because they didn't completely disagree with each other. If not giving up eating meat was the stance of one, and the other pushed to make meat illegal and scorning the other for being a meat eater, well, welcome to the real world scenario.
@Jules Juerez idk, I rarely get angry, and the second someone starts yelling in a debate with me I just end it there because theirs no reason to debate with them at that point, but I'm always surprised to see a debate with no yelling, especially on a topic as disagreed upon as this one
kiloisnear bruv it’s not tea and crumpets when you go east London , at least in a week a person is killed from knifes from gangs so don’t t listen to your friends
@@christianjamesmiller8388 The only places in Africa that have proper infrastructure and are able to have a worthwhile school system are the ones that the British Empire/United Kingdom had a hand in before leaving.
He keeps saying that the UK for example is not ready to go entirely vegan, that it will take about 50 years to adapt their economy and their agriculture to it. For me, that sounds like a great reason to go vegan, because the choices people make are what motivates change. If everyone in the world went vegan today that wouldn’t work. But that is not going to happen. You don’t need to slow down the change by not going vegan, going vegan is what motivates the change.
Agreed. So many jobs can be created by going vegan. People argued that ending slavery would financially cripple the south. However, other industries took over and they were fine. That was with a sudden abolition of a HUGE part of the American economy. In the case of slavery it wasn’t obvious how they were going to move forward, but there are so many possible vegan jobs to be created with a higher demand.
breathing Snow would you consider reducing some of your meat even if it’s just for health benefits? What if you just cut out pork and leave everything else? Or try have a vegetarian/vegan dinner once a week? Or perhaps buy a vegan protein bar and have it as part of your lunch? What if you like two types of crisps, you could buy the ones that don’t contain milk? Perhaps choosing the vegetarian pizza? These little choices add up You don’t have to go strictly vegan but you can reduce your meat consumption which will reduce the amount of suffering if animals. perhaps one less pig will scream in terror as a farmer chops off it’s tail🤷🏼♀️. you will be helping the environment far more than using paper straws and there will be health benefits on top of all that Would you consider it?
@@NegativeAccelerate it's a shame you don't hear people say this much I think you have much more chance of making a positive impact by showing people the benefits of cutting down opposed to outright just asking people to give it up completely...
@@NegativeAccelerate Some omnivores might reduce to help the environment, or some for health. If they don't care about animals, they won't care about how many they are responsible for killing.
24:27 "The reason why people don't hurt other people, is because you have a system of laws in place" Frightening view. The reason why I don't hurt people is because it's cruel and wicked and against my own morals. This guy is a grim figure all round.
I don't hurt other people because I feel compassion and empathy for them. So sad how many sick people are out there including the guy in the video. You can even see how sick he looks. I wish him the best. Poor guy, probbably has an empathy defecit or something like that.
@@amazingly_bookish I suggest you visit a slaughterhouse, then you will see what really is cruel and hurtful. Besides which, you cannot see the DISGUSTING abuse hurled at me by this azure person, because they removed their comments.
Earthling Ed has the clearest mind I know of. It's like he doesn't even have to think before talking. He just comes with the right argument right away.
I’m watching this from the States. You guys are having a genuine intellectual debate, while over here every conversation about veganism vs meat-eaters is like Erin and Joe Exotic having a boxing match.
It's not just America. In the UK people would be doing the exact same thing if they weren't too scared to offend people. So I can imagine the less friendly people who I don't see often will be just like you described. And on the internet you usually don't talk to people you don't know, so if you go onto anyone's social media, you're guaranteed to find an arguement.
Pretty sure, I don't agree with that argument. But maybe I could agree with "If there had not been a problem until now, surely won't be a problem in trillion years".
I would even say we need more discussions, conversations are random where discussion are used to share about a subject. We need to think things more deeply.
@ plants are 'important' for the ecosystem of the planet. They're not 'unimportant' what do you mean anyways, since importance is such a shallow word something can only be important TO someone or something so it has to describe a relationship (but you only name one partner)
As someone who has been on and off vegan/vegetarian, finding Ed has been so helpful. He is levelheaded, he listens, and gives great rebuttals. It’s refreshing. Thank you.
theres so many vegan options too theres 80000 plants and only 5 animals that people eat (yuck) and eggs (tortured chickens periods) and cheese (extra yuck)
@@mountaingirl1753 nope vegans are not superior to meat eaters. They think they’re doing good in the world by standing up for dumb animals when in reality they’re feeding their own egos. Animals could care less whether they live or die. It’s pure instinct on their part.
@@FABIOof119 you talk a lot about science but link to none... Cite your sources if you want to talk science. Name the dozen nutrients you can't get in plants. Show studies that support your claims about fiber ruining the gut... I'll wait.
@@FABIOof119 a vegan diet prevents and reverses heart disease, obesity, cancers, arthritis, osteoporosis and prevents diabetes. and im not just making that up that is science! also animal products have acidic protein which leeches calcium from your bones! the china study is the biggest study of human nutrition in the world and it says a vegan diet is the best diet for all stages of life including infancy, pregnancy, and old age. a vegan diet is also the ONLY diet proven to reverse heart disease. if were meant to eat meat why does a very diet REVERSE the diseases meat causes? also that person is talking about how people just follow society even if society isnt ethical. for instance the same people who owned human slaves - still exist. and they dont own slaves now simply because everyone else doesn't. its not toxic to stand up for animals being raped tortured and killed. its toxic to pay for that to happen just because its legal. would you also try rape women if it were legal? its so simple. ❤
@@FABIOof119 lol! ok fat neckbeard i haven't eaten meat for 3 years and have no milk cheese or eggs (vegan) for 1. guess what! i have abs, im ripped af, definitely stronger than you! i can do human flag, gaining muscle, and youre just probably a fat f***ing neckbeard lmao. niiiiiiiice
The Meat Eater just admitted that the legal system is the only thing holding him back from harming humans. It's funny how people are so quick to discard any information that conflicts with their sense of the world. "I'm a meat eater and I'm not ashamed, so therefore everything that this fellow meat eater said is morally correct. Because he represents and reminds me of myself." - Stefanie Dai
I had that kind of total apathy half a year before going vegan. In retrospect it was because I was afraid world is such a dump and nothing can be done about it. Veganism gave me hope. I hope this guy will find the spark too.
At the end you could clearly see he was depressed and he was grateful to Ed for talking to him. He doesn't realize his current diet and attitude towards animals only makes him sadder.
And, he was honest enough to say it out loud, the most dangerous ones pretend the opposite in public (e.g. politicians) but deep inside they think and act with that in mind!
It won't. Morality and moral standards aren't inherently normative. A person arguing from a teleological or say a utilitarian point of view would have equally valid arguments as a person arguing from a deontological point of view.
@@austinknox8088 there is no biological argument we can survive and thrive either way (barring rare conditions of course) so its up to you whether you want to support the murder and torture of animals or not
I don’t care about veganism and I never had. But I sat and listened to this entire debate and enjoyed it. I didn’t take any points in because I’m high.. but it was a great debate lads.
Thank god for your comment. I'm sick of people saying poor africans or asians would pratically die without meat. Wtf? Meat is still a luxury for the poorest and I'm sure many poor people are vegetarian/mostly vegetarian for financial, cultural reasons. They have their own crops, some since generations.
I will say to the "meals got boring" point: that's all on your cooking skills. Look up veggie recipes and experiment! So many meat eaters eat the same boring meals over and over and don't have much variation in their cooking skills.
My friend, how many people can afford to experiment on a vegan diet when the majority of people wake up at 5, wash their teeth and go to work, work= stress, come back at 16, 17:00.There is no time for vegan bullshit for this life.A vegan diet is good for people who do almost no pshysical work, or sit at home and do almost nothing all day but cook and eat every 2 hours.This diet especially for men is feminizing, look at the majority of vegan males with their feminized voices.
@@PieInTheSky9 Yes, but that's not my point. My point is that if you switch to veganism and the reason you quit is because the meals get boring, that's on you. You are the one making those meals. And that many people don't realize how boring their meal routine is until they cut out meat and realize they weren't making very many variations. But when you go vegan or vegetarian, you are essentially forced to learn to use new ingredients and methods of cooking.
Ed, I am watching every one of your videos one at a time, they just get better with each one. You are a treasure to this world, keep fighting for animals, and the rest of us will back you up. People like you are going to change the world for animals.
And animals will continue not giving a fuck about you. You must think animals have a life purpose in their minds. Not even most of us have. Under controlled situations, animals are just energy for a greater good
The "We're all floating atoms" argument is dumb. If someone cut off his limbs and as he was writhing in pain came up to him and said "Don't worry mate, we're all just floating atoms," I don't think he'd appreciate it very much.
If you like using science like most of these debaters you can't be more scientific than that we are nothing else but floating atoms moving through space and time and the only reason why we are even talking about this is because unlike all other organisms we were fortunate enough to evolve into an intelligent being. None of this will matter millions of years from now because what is certain is every species will eventually face extinction no matter what and all these ideas about morals and everything humans have will die together with the last of its kind.
just wanted to say you’ve been the biggest source of inspiration for me for the past half a year. When I started questioning myself I realised I had been hypocritical for 16 years of my life and actually needed to take some action. I was veggie for 3 months and vegan coming close to a month now and I’ve got no intentions of going back. Your videos are so helpful for calmly educating everyone, I often wish I could explain myself in the same way you do. The only thing I would say which has been a bit of a shame is the comments from college classmates or friends. rather than seeing veganism as a positive thing, many are quick to oppose and belittle it, constantly trying to catch me out in the foods that I’m eating (which of course never actually works). It’s a shame that people feel threatened and in a sense try to reassure themselves of the choices they are making but puts me down a bit as I never verbalise anything concerning their eating. It is a shame that people can’t embrace what a positive change it is but it’s people like you Ed that will make the difference, thanks so much
I've been vegan for a month too because of Earthling Ed and my friends have also belittled me 😒😒. Totally understand what you're going through! Isn't it funny how people object when you choose to NOT pay for animal cruelty?
Jesus, I would hate to be stuck with this guy at a party Me “So how’s your night going” Him “It doesn’t really matter, we’re just all floating atoms in space floating to our deaths”
Right?? I wonder if he would use this weirdly dispassionate perspective if we were talking about any other ethical issue. Child labour? Doesn't matter. Corrupt government? We are all just floating here. Hate crimes towards minorities? We all die one day bro, why stress about it
Yeah good, I had a fillet steak today, like my ancestors strived for. My daughter had a stick of celery bathed in garlic. We were both equally happy knowing that we both killed life in order to eat. Oh, sorry, did I kill a moving thing. Is that the problem here? Would you eat roadkill, a cow killed by a car fresh from it's natural habitat? Sadly demised? I'm all for giving these animals a happy life, but each tree we kill is probably worse for this planet than the death of each bred farm animal. The planet is less important than a farm animal? Or is the Co2 created by celery irrelevant? stop it. All of you STOP IT. it's daft in every way possible.
@@chuffsie The Co2 released from cultivating celery is minuscule compared with the one produced by a single cow.what your ancestor did was for pure survival. Today it's NOT necessary to rob an animal from their most important thing so you can enjoy 10 min of a meal. You are sooo blinded and conditioned that you can't see it. That moving thing you "killed" is a being that has appreciation for its life, a celery hasn't. Veganism is not about being perfect and we DO cause harm just for existing. We just try to cause the least amount of harm possible. I don't chop up trees and try my best not to cause it. But is is not the same than participating on torturing and killing of animals for no reason.
Its worse when they think they know what they're talking about 😐. Its sad that he thinks the only reason humans dont kill each other is because its against the law
@@nestlawatr5643 Laws are just modern proxies for any form of system of consequences. Murder isn't rampant in anarchical societies because murder is antisocial. Laws aren't our basis for morality
@Austin Dobbins he may have empathy. I'm not convinced he doesn't have that quality. it seemed like at times he had a nervous voice when it came to eds points. I think he was just an intellectually lazy nihilist who thought he had a point. but he was just being cynical about one quality of subjective morality which was dishonest.
When people base their arguement on intelligence it baffles me. Pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old child, does that mean any child under the age of 3 qualifies to be slaughtered....
As long as it's sustainable.....it's Impossible ethically..... nihilism though? Smh. Nihilism is a performative contradiction. The man's a living logical fallacy
It's so painful to watch: so much f*cking indifference about animal suffering. I admire Ed for his infinite patience and for continuing to focus on trying to find commonality in order to persuade, keeping his eyes on the animals. But dang that freaking dude doesn't have an ounce of empathy. Infuriating
@@FS-ms2md Why is it about good feelings? To me it's about the consequences of our actions: avoiding contributing to a lot of unnecessary death and suffering, one of the leading causes of climate change and the leading cause of heart disease and diabetes, to name a few.
I’m super impressed with the guy in black. He really seemed to know his stuff and held his points well while being mindful of the conversation itself. He didn’t become overly emotional and he also seemed like a good listener. This conversation basically boiled down to doing what works vs what is right.
"I don't think I could live without milk." What a weird statement. The idea of consuming bovine breast milk was even bizarre and gross to me before I was a vegan.
@@pt.is.education5747 there's plenty of easy sources that aren't BREAST MILK. dairy is horrible health wise anyway. The smell of milk breath literally makes me gag.
I think when someone brings up the animals eat other animals argument, something you don’t say is that they occupy an ecological niche in that ecosystem but slaughterhouses are not an ecosystem
They are an evolution of our ecosystem. Due to the mass amount of humans who do eat meat, there has to be mass production of it. And it is cheaper to crest slaughter houses then to individually kill wild animals.
Huge respect for both of you, I feel that we do live in a civilized society, but unfortunately on those debates people end up being completely the opposite, so I'm really glad that we do have people who can have such a debate, I'm a fail human being and I'm leaning from this, both in a philosophical and human way. Thank you both again for this debate! 👏🏻👏🏻
Yes. You can definitely make that argument. You can say to me, that I am a moral monster in regards to empathy towards animals. But quite frankly, I don't care. As long as eating meat won't put me in some social disadvantage, I don't care. I will happily be friends with vegans. if they would wish not to interact with me, their choice. As of today, my answer to: "why not go vegan?" is simply this: "There is no reason, outside of a moral one to do so".
@Kenny Not in my lifetime. Selfish, I know. + The environment wouldn't get THAT much better, for all the transport of all the veggies that would be necessary. And who says that you can't be healthy on a balanced diet, which includes meat?
What is wrong with nihilism? Do you simply not wish to think about anything negatively? You would be denying many harsh realities of this world we live in. It isn't like being nihilistic makes you a psychopath.
@@elofkjellson3906 To say nothing matters because it won't matter at some point in the future is to be completely obsessed with the future and having impact on it. That need itself is irrational and super ego heavy. Meaning doesn't need to be dependent on "later". To me, many nihilists seem to take something obvious, like the eventual death of Earth, and then use it as an excuse to be apathetic (proven link with depression). I don't remember this video super well, but I think it may have been a last ditch effort appealing to futility. As if to say "This doesn't matter much anyways, so I'll eat what I want". Some forms of nihilism are factually true...don't want to get to caught up in that. Experience in each present moment matters, and need not be tied down to influence over anything in the future.
Imagine being interviewed AFTER this guy. That guy was a legend and this was insanely informative and entertaining to watch. Two very strong thinkers and good at putting their thoughts into words. Super great video. Thank you for sharing this moment with us.
Guy is well mannered and educated, sure, but logically, he makes poor points. It's "personal choice". Well, just like everything in this world pretty much, so with this argument, we should be able to excuse all atrocities. Then he makes an argument for the cost - it's cheaper to use pigs or other animals to produce some of the materials and resources needed for medicine and whatnot. Well, guess what is also cheaper - having slaves work for you. Should we go back there, because it's cheaper? "We are not ready yet" If we aren't ready now, we never will, it will get worse, not better. "It doesn't make a difference in the end" Well, if someone killed someone he loved for no reason, it would make quite a difference for him, surely. Even if in million years, it doesn't matter. "Cow hasn't travel to space yet." So, by this logic, it doesn't matter whether you feel pain, happiness, want to live and more, if you aren't capable of thinking at least on a level of a human, you are not worthy of being treated anything less than being murdered purely because you taste well. I guess, by this logic, we could kill human babies, since they can't communicate on that level and couldn't possibly make a spaceship and travel to space. Also, general argument that so many meat eaters love to make about how this would have some bad consequences and just big change would effect lives and such - well of course, changes big as this can't happen overnight with no noticable effects. So, it's better to keep torturing and murdering millions upon millions living beings every day, just because change would take time and adaptation? The world has gone through so many big changes and we always adapt - when we have to. We boast and call ourselves the most advance race, make tons of unnecessary and pointless decisions and put money to make them happen, but when things that truly matter and would make a world a better place would need attention, nope, can't happen. I find his arguments very weak, but at least it was calm discussion.
@@Bl4ckheart I agree completely, I mean, it is nice that they are not screaming to each other, but their arguments are not equal. We are so numb with the political state of things that two guys speaking calmly surprises people, but the arguments of Ben (the meat eater) are really weaker than Ed's. Even if you think that Ed didn't articulate his argument in the best way possible, morally speaking, Ben couldn't justify meat eating.
DH I think he had a mixture of logically sound and unsound points. There were a few issues at the onset of the discussion as the parameters weren’t clear from a sentence on a table cloth. The man initially began his argument on the basis of a worldwide change while Ed was aiming for specifically the UK and developed western world. Past that, there were a few duds in terms of arguments but the underlying issue was the difference between a nihilistic ideology vs a more optimistic moral equalist one. Also you have to consider that this was a table in public egging people on for a spur of the moment discussion. You can’t expect the highest quality of arguments all throughout as you would from a premeditated debate as in those cases both sides have the opportunity to formulate and regurgitate arguments ahead of time and consider what the opposition might have to say, adjusting your preparation accordingly. People aren’t as eloquent without that prior notice.
@@l.l.8022 well, Ed uses facts and logic. Not just a quick fact and then waver on ur own point. Ed is a great example because he's polite, listens and encourages them to talk n open up.
The veganism agenda and people that fall for it are the ones sleeping really.. Do what you please though but none of yall are contributing to a better world. Thinking you make a difference by changing just your diet thats sleeping really..
People with this kind of cold world view cannot get behind the very valid moral arguments made my Ed. Honestly the core belief is unchangeable and any global arguments won’t work because it doesnt actually concern them. This is hard for us vegans to imagine since many of us feel pain knowing how animals are treated. Would be very interested in seeing Ed spread more knowledge on the medical perspective because that would have a better chance of concerning them directly.
Yeeeah pretty sure some people just don't wanna hurt people because they don't want to hurt people? He did say there wasn't a difference between killing 1 animal and killing a trillion so I dunno 'bout this guy lol
This is the first-ever earthling Ed video I watched, I disliked it in May, went vegan in July lol. Came back here to symbolically switch that dislike to a like.
If you like using science like most of these debaters you can't be more scientific than that we are nothing else but floating atoms moving through space and time and the only reason why we are even talking about this is because unlike all other organisms we were fortunate enough to evolve into an intelligent being. None of this will matter millions of years from now because what is certain is every species will eventually face extinction no matter what and all these ideas about morals and everything humans have will die together with the last of its kind.
@@blackmarlin3166 It is true that eventually none of this will ultimately matter. But it currently matters to everyone that's experiencing it. If you argue that things don't matter because eventually they won't matter then why can't I keep children as slaves? Why can't i murder, rape and rob who I please? We are all experiencing the present so we recognise that, as we don't want to suffer in the present, we should not make others suffer.
@@ammettheyellingfrog1 That's a good point but if i may use his argument there's a line between man and animals, what makes us human valuable is that we have a sense of usefulness. Humans like he said are also resources in way that we can exchange goods and services, we can build a productive society, we have a level of importance that is needed to maintain a suitable environment to live in. With that being said we are left with one question "What can animals contribute since they are all incapable of doing what we can to affect our lives or simply what are their importance to us?" A cow would just continue on eating grass and reproduce if we leave them alone. And the reason why atleast most of us choose not to hurt and exploit other humans is that we think that they are equal to us like we don't wan't them to be put in that situation as much as we don't want ourselves to be put in that situation. Moreover, even if there is not a single law present in the world there's still a sense of accountability in our actions because as humans we have complex emotions in that we can grieve, feel violated eventually build contempt and hatred for one another, if someone killed your loved ones it is not a mystery that you might find a way to retaliate and hurt them back too that's why hurting another person is not the same with hurting animals. I think these are the things what all non-vegans always have in the back of their head that they can't put in words.
@@blackmarlin3166 We don't measure a human's worth on what they can contribute. For example, you wouldn't advocate the killing of disabled children on the grounds that they are simply going to leach off of society and never contribute anything. If you did suggest that most people would agree that it isn't moral. So if we don't measure a human's worth on what they can contribute to human society then why should we measure an animal's in that way? I agree with you that we don't put other humans in situations that we ourselves wouldn't want to be in but why not extend that to non-human animals? You wouldn't torture a human in a factory farm because they feel pain so would suffer but do animals not also feel pain and suffer? You can say that you treat humans well because they are equal but what is the relevant thing that makes them equal? For example, someone who's racist would assert that a black person is not equal them but wouldn't have a good reason for believing this so you would dismiss it. I'm not saying that animals are equal to humans (that's a common misconception about vegans) but animals do feel pain and can suffer both physically and emotionally. And ultimately you don't decide how you treat a human based on their intelligence, emotional intelligence, number of social bonds they've formed or on their physical appearance, so why should animals be treated differently based on these things? As Jeremy Bentham put it "The question is not, Can they reason?, nor Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?" Animals feel emotions too, which biologically are no different to ours. They can form negative bonds with people and other animals. My dog knows the dogs that have started fights with him in the past so will try to start fights with them even though he's usually very friendly. If you're interested in the philosophy of why people are vegan I'd recommend this as a good introduction ruclips.net/video/y3-BX-jN_Ac/видео.html
@@ammettheyellingfrog1 Yes but that's only in the realm of if someone is defective/abnormal and the only reason why we categorize them like that is because humans aren't suppose to be like that, criminals are also considered as such that's why we put them away as much as we can. An animal is an animal they can never function like us under any given circumstances. "Suffering" or "unnecessary suffering" is really a tricky term in a way that it begs the questions: Why is taking a life of animals is universally justified by any moral beliefs if it's in survival situations? How could you allow someone take a life of other animals and fully disregard their sentience? Is their suffering different from our suffering that we feel that our lives our more important than theirs that they could die so we could live but never the other way around? What justifies this?
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L
No thanks virgin god put cows on earth to eat not how to eat them
bruh.. ok
I understand your choice. My choice is that if its not human you're allowed to put it in your mouth.
I do not participate with weakness.
"Can I make a point"...... "yes, of course you can".
THIS is how humans should discuss these topics!!
@Szilard Molnar yes I've noticed that with Steven. Even tho I agree with some of his views there was this "change my mind" episode where they discussed socialism. The other guy had great arguments and made me reconsider socialism, but Steven ran out of them and just started going about how the kid made a comment with the word "autistic" and just stopped the discussion. You can find the video on RUclips I think. But that showed how he didn't want his mind changed, but to just "shove his opinion in the other guys throat".
@@thesadanimations I float about the web sometimes :) thank you!
Actually he cut him off there which is not how a debate works
You cant make a point until the other one is done making his point
It's not as entertaining as two equally braindead angry people violently verbally going at each other though
welcome to britain
That's how people should discuss ideas. This is how the world should be like.
Exactly! In my opinion, we currently put way to much emphasis on debates, where the goal is to win rather than to inform.
The world would be boring af if everyone was like this, don't you think?
It's good, like Steven Crowder's change my mind
people need to give a shit about becoming more knowledgeable first
I don't get it.. They are discussing shit in this fashion... What's the problem?
Both sides are intelligent, this is how a debate should be.
Jacob Breath couldn’t agree more, obvs am with Ed but both very informed and considered arguments. 10/10 debate
I disagree, he's articulate but in my opinion not intelligent.
He might be educated, but definitely not intelligent. Source - 19:50
I totally agree
"That doesn't matter because we will be gone in 1 trillion years." That argument was so stupid, he is justifying practically every atrocity that happened, is happening and will happen in the world
"I haven't seen a flying cow"
"Well you haven't gone to space either"
Ed I love you, that was pure gold
ruclips.net/video/siHfHUm3HGE/видео.html
Politicians take note. No digs, or over opinions, just educated points of opposing views.
Politicians communicate the way they do because it works. Zingers and complex poblems boiled down to an single line is much more easy to communicate to the masses than long explanations. It sucks, but should it be otherwise we need to reinvent political debates
I'm actually okay with some zings. The problem is politicians can spout some mind-washing stupidity and empty platitudes that appeal to "heart" rather than rationale.
Don't know where you are from. But in my country, the politicians act formally like in this debate.
G Fisher Indeed. Comparing the jeering in the House of Commons to this.
Fornostios what country are you from then?
Unrelated but I wish I had the ability to just talk and express my ideas clearly without messing up my words or loosing my train of thought. Must be nice
I’m like partially educated in anything I do so I usually just lose confidence in my argument and end up agreeing with the person I’m debating against 😂 these days I’ve learnt to just shut my mouth and listen as I’ve realised I can learn everything I need to know without necessarily debating!
If I find myself headed in that direction I simply just flip the script and just start asking questions instead!
I had this EXACT same thought several time throughout this video omg
Practice
You can do anything
You can actually practice that :) Start small by expressing what you think and why about whatever issue (say where you'd like to eat with friends, how you feel after a conversation or movie) in one or two sentences, starting with your opinion or feeling, then followed by why you feel that way or how it affects you. It might be weird at first but you'll get used to speaking in full sentences including your reason. It will not only make you sound smart in staged debates but make communication with your friends or relationship partners easier and more clear, potentially bettering your relationships with them and also get you in touch with your own ability to justify feelings or opinions even just to yourself :)
If you have no one to practice with, even exploring your feelings or opinions in your own head like that can make a difference.
Also, there is no shame in saying "I'm not sure about this, I don't know enough about this topic to have a strong opinion" (maybe followed by "but i do know about this related issue...") and there is no shame in asking questions in order to learn and form an opinion. You can do everything you want to :) Even voicing your wish to get better at this in the comments here is a real first step.
Imagine a world where people are as educated and have it together as these two...
buddy on the left didn't have a clue what he was getting himself into. You think he's educated? His arguments were weak and not well thought out (just one indication was his revision and contradictions). His counterarguments even weaker. He was able to articulate himself quite clearly, but that's more rhetoric than it is knowledge.
@@orngpeelr9017 I'm not sure about you, but I don't have my arguments for every conceivable debate ready 24/7 in case I am invited to one spontaneously. Considering the guy on the left did this impromptu compared to Ed, who had arguments prepared in advance, I think he held his ground very well.
@@orngpeelr9017 honestly some of ed's counter arguments were childishly nitpicky. He cut the guy off a few times, not much, but when he did i felt that it was only to hinder the dudes thought process as he explained his points.
@@99999george he wasn't invited to a debate though? Out of his own volition he chose to make himself look foolish. You're crediting a guy for making an attempt and I would agree with you IF that attempt was necessary. No one forced him to debate Ed though. He chose to not bring any actual arguments.
@@t-dollas5442 that seems more like a projection than it does to be a logical conclusion given that Ed was clearly "winning the argument" for the lack of a better phrase. So he'd have no need to throw the guy off. Not to mention that the guy did the exact same thing, but ok.
Even as a non-religious person I find it sad that so many people think everything is meaningless and we are “just” a bunch of atoms floating randomly in space.
100% agree.
Nothing about that statement is incorrect though. We are just a bunch of atoms floating in space and for practical purposes animal suffering is just an emotion inside the heads of humans. One of the reasons for the invention of religions is probably to give humans the feeling of a higher sense of purpose.
It's freaking insane. He probably doesn't like the word "soul' but I think he's lacking one
I think this and I’m vegan. Life is amazing and a gift but that doesn’t mean we aren’t just a bunch of atoms floating in space :) life has no meaning so u have to make some
I'm non-religious and think we are just a bunch of atoms floating in space. It makes life so much more precious knowing that it's random and you've been given the gift of life.
Dude both of these guys are extremely educated! Congrats on having a civil discussion!
@D true the meat dude looks like he didn't sleep for 1 week and survives on energy drinks and chicken nuggets
민지김 I’m not saying the guy on the left looks healthy but if you think that vegan looks healthy you really are in denial. Look how PALE (and skinny) he looks.
@@semsm192 first of all I basically described a college student that was nothing against him lol and second of all people can be naturally skinny and being pale has very little to do with your diet
민지김 it has very MUCH to do with your diet. Don’t argue that becaus that simply is a fact.
And what a surprise. ONE OF the manor causes of paleness is a folate and b-12 deficiency😂
This goes to show you can't judge an argument by its haircuts
Lool
Well i must say that vegan dude look like he was borned to be vegan xD
Highly underrated comment
😂😂😭
Really liked your comment
I love how calmly this guy listens to and explains his thoughts on veganism, I am trying hard to learn how to do just that. Our world needs to learn how to listen and talk to each other without becoming angry
Meditate
He talked about how he did that in his Harvard video, really amazing I’m trying to as well!
I’m sure it helps a lot that this guy didn’t just show up to troll him with low brow or subjective comments. He’s articulate and calm. His points weren’t exactly accurate and honestly a pretty depressing, but he’s not throwing around comments like “hehe bacon good. me caveman”
It is a very rational, and calm debate. Rather enjoyable to see.
Maybe stop taking it so personal. And try to force others for your choice
24:27 "the reason why people aren't hurting other people is because they would be punished for that" - what a depressing thought that everyone on the world would just lose any kind of morale and humanity once no one would be punished. he took "the purge" way too seriously.
It's true if you look back even 500 years, people gathered by the hundreds to watch public executions as a form of entertainment. There's a reason we need laws.
@@scumbag9714 But those people were being executed because of the law
@@scumbag9714 , nah, people were being executed BECAUSE of laws. Look to our closest relatives and you'll see that we, as social beings, aim for harmony within our groups. Sure, fear of punishment can factor, but humans are an animal that bonds, nurtures and cares just as fiercely as it fights.
…is he wrong tho?
Oh boy would you be in a shock if the purge was real 😂
I love how this didn't degrade into name calling and screaming
grown ups. they still exist.
This would be a different story if it was feminism lol
@@SHFTPROJECTS why?
@Bobson Dugnut there are many types of feminists. I happen to live with a woman who does a very good job of explaining why she is a feminist and why her ideas work and often how many of the loud feminists miss the point. Don't allow the loudest and most radical of any bunch form your view on a movement or a group of other people.
Because this isn't America.
WOW- this guy did NOT come to play. He knew what he was talking about not only that.. he listened. 👏🏻
janaye C yeah u clearly dont know what ur talking about...
More or less. He completely bailed out on morality, also didn't make a lot of sense in nuances, like saying we have control over parts of the universe or borderline-claiming animals might not be sentient beings. The part that angers me though is how he refers to animal products being used in many other ways than nourishment. Yes, having a pigs heart-valve might safe your life, while breeding and feeding and slaughtering a pig for food not only hurts your environment but also your heart. TBF, he was on the premise of "it is my choice" - which is more than you can say of pretty much anyone else.
They might not have had enough time to get into that but the space he made for the vegan standpoint to park into was way too huge.
In general, good debate and credit to the guy.
@@lookaround1846 It's reversed. "Hearing but not listening" is the term.
@@lookaround1846 And I don't know what he said for you to come to the conclusion he has no heart.
@@user-vv5ju3fj1p he's pretty clearly a nihilist. Something nobody likes
If only the presidential debates were like this.
April Flower I want to age as well as this comment
yep
@@Dance4Israel HAHAHA like fine wine
best comment of the day
May Buzzetti HAHAHAH
This is one of my favorite debates. I wish Ed had pushed the other guy on the ramifications of the "it's illegal so I don't do it" line of thinking. In some countries, it's perfectly legal to murder someone if they are LGBTQ+. As Ed said, legality doesn't equal morality.
And unfortunately for people using morality as a basis for any of their arguments, don't actually have an argument because morality is relative.
@@-rr-4172 Nothing matters so anything goes. It seems like morality is subjective, but since that leaves us free to decide for ourselves, I choose kindness over might makes right.
@@hollieinan8329 Exactly, which also means 'meat eaters' have just as much right to kill and eat an animal as you choosing to not to consume (or own?) anything that has resulted in an animal's death.
@@-rr-4172 And to do anything else they want to anyone, including all the worst things people do to each other--rape, torture, murder, etc. It also means people who dislike others suffering have just as much "right" to stop the people who hurt animals from hurting them. If we decide anything goes then... anything goes.
@@hollieinan8329 Welp, that's the truth. Anything does go......If you're a loony. I cant speak for others but i can speak for myself so i shall; morality is totally relative yes, but humanitarianism is not. Here's a thought exercise: since morality is relative, why isn't it ok to take someone else's life? Because as a human being, i can understand other human beings, recognizing that i dont want to die AND killing another of my own species would ultimately do the opposite of prolonging the survival and wellbeing of my species.
How sad is it that people are impressed that there is a civil discussion going on
It is sad in the sense it emphasizes how rare being civil is. It should be a given that debates are to be civil, but many times it doesn’t end up that way.
@Norm T which is what makes it sad. We stand on the shoulder of giants, great philosopher, world conquerors, and from that we're "refreshed", however you want to put it, that a civil discourse is in play today. THAT is extremely sad. What we may have advanced in technology, we still lack on our foundations. That is fucking terrible. We haven't come far. At all.
Immorality!!! animals don't fuckin use immorality when they kill, if they did, they would've shown it a long time ago.. and I don't mean animals raised by human intervention..😒
I think a lot of people are impressed by their intellect but I do get your point. I feel like a lot of conversations should and could be debates but most of the time they turn into arguments as people struggle to accept an opposing view or just struggle to agree to disagree. A lot of people want everyone to have the same views as them (including a lot of vegans) but as long as their views don't create immoral or unethical actions then try to change their mind but if they don't want to, agree to disagree.
Its because it's a rare sight.
It sucks that discussions like this aren't the norm on disagreeing issues.
I think that it is because although both people have a strong belief in their argument, neither are so arrogant that they are unwilling to accept they maybe wrong.
For every screaming idiot there's a rational debate happening. Just because they dont get the clicks doesn't mean theyre in the minority
They are the norm if you just look hard enough.
@@MagnusBringsli I behave perfectly fine, but I can't say the same for plenty of others.
It takes 2 intelligent persons aware of how to discuss, which is rare
Most vegans (including myself) have dealt with non-vegans arguing with you saying "oh but meat is so good" or "you don't get enough protein", but watching a non vegan calmly debate with a vegan and not just yell and be ignorant. This is very refreshing!
Right. And it’s been proven that centenarians have a significantly LOW protein diet, with high vegetable intake, and that is the secret to long term living. This has been scientifically proven. It seems that in the “western world” we are obsessed with protein. I’m not entirely sure why. But it’s absolutely killing the people slowly who believe this.
My fear is that I have seen a lot of vegans look sick looking , thats why I veer towards vegitatian or pescitarian way of living. Vegans you have to take a ton of supplements that seem to make it more work to be vegan as opposed to vegitatian
@@danacampbell2960 That’s a bit rude... don’t judge people on how they look.
I honestly have more respect when someone tells me that they just love meat too much
I have no respect for people to try to fling stereotypes at me
@@danacampbell2960 The only supplement vegans need is B-12. In reality, B-12 is hard to get at all.
The unhealthy vegan is the minority
The unhealthy omnivore is the majority
I am from Brazil, and I don’t think there is a cheaper and more practical country to be vegan in the world. Not only well developed countries have easy access to a plant based diet, people just talk about things they have no knowledge of.
Eu to tao feliz pra ler isso : ) Nao sou brasileiro, mas tenho **muitas conexoes ai (familha e amigos), e todos falam q nao e possivel ai. Q eu devo nao o mencionar, ou q eu to ignorante / nao entendo as realidades brasileiras
@@Brandon-os3qr :) imagina, é mais que possível. Inclusive temos restaurantes veganos maravilhosos! As pessoas só querem criticar. Eu vivo na Europa hoje e posso garantir que é muito mais fácil e barato ser vegano no Brasil.
@@mafesimione3967 Brazilian tribes can’t go to vegan restaurants. Kids in the slums can’t go to vegan restaurants
@@richierich2229 they don’t have to.
@@mafesimione3967 Concordo ! Ser vegano na França é um pesadelo...
A Wise man once said "The point of a debate is to find the truth not prove you are right".
Krishna Bharadwaj 🙏🏼
The man was wrong. Appealing to emotions is far better than appealing to logic if you want to see things change. It is what it is. Humans aren't robots.
Johannes Westman But we actually build them robots. Every aspect of a robot is embedded inside our skull and has to coexist with the other emotional part. A Human is both of those parts, and the logical part is the one that made this exact conversation able to happen. Or do you think computers, networks and microchips were invented by the logic of our emotions? don’t fool yourself, both parts are critical and are the ones that makes us whole
Whimah Whe
However u could put emotions above logic cuz emotions accept certain morals and customs.. logic just accept the truth and efficiency
As we all know the truth isnt always the solution.. and efficiency can be so immoral..
Watch psycho pass a good anime for robot/human situations
Bob Kundi Not quite. Logic is more like a framework. You need values (as x = 1) to make it work. You can use the truth, which I advise, but you could use your own values, such as a moral system ruled by emotions. The status of actual truth of such value is not related with the status of truth inside the logic framework, that’s why we can think, you are using the framework filling the values with whatever is convenient in order to create a simulation. You should learn programming, this becomes much clear if you know how to code :)
More people need to be this calm when debating ,rather than just screaming at each other.
This is a civilised debate. Anything other is just acting as an animal, who screams louder or is more violent.
A debate by definition is a discussion (heated or not), so if someone is just screaming at someone and/or not listening, presenting counter arguments, than it is not a debate.
If someone starts screaming, I withdraw. Screaming just shows u r an unworthy opponent.
That's what the liberals do
@@NavyGuero83 wouldn’t you say this is better for a real conclusion or to come to a middle ground?
i was prepared for the worst, expected passive aggressive provoking and shit, but i got surprised
This isn’t Stephen Crowder
This isn’t change my mind
Why are you surprised? Outside of the internet, this is normal.
That happens when only one side is intelligent.
Can Somer i dont think intelligence is a factor to this calm discussion.. i mean u can have a ragy and aggressive conversation between 2 high intellectual people... ( i think intelligence is determined by the intellectual ability) however im convienced its not the intelligency that make calm conversations its more the personality and the will..
what defins being intelligent anyway.. 🤔
Great balanced debate. Really good to see, guys. I went vegan when I had this thought - "If you want to eat it, you have to kill it yourself." I realised that if I'm faced with a pig, sheep, or cow, I'm more likely to cuddle it than kill it. Haven't touched animal products since.
Same with me... Majority of the people can't see their food being killed...but they paradoxically still eat a lot of meat ..Those who comeout of this and resolve the paradox are now vegans...
I like how there both respectful and have facts and they aren’t getting triggered.
Edit: to all y’all pressed about me spelling a word wrong. My bad I didn’t realize this was a spelling class.
Where?
the yutber is triggered lol his opinions are based on emotions
partially because they didn't completely disagree with each other. If not giving up eating meat was the stance of one, and the other pushed to make meat illegal and scorning the other for being a meat eater, well, welcome to the real world scenario.
How do you use they aren’t correctly but not they’re 😅
@@habenwoldemelak4507
Explain
That wrinkle in the table cloth has me feeling some type of way..
I didn’t notice until I read your comment and now it’s got me fucked up lol
@@ciara9414 exactly this, now I feel sad >:(
Please smooth it out!
It makes me unsettled. I feel an impulse to fix it
Me too 🤣
the fact that im surprised there was no yelling and angry fighting, is probably because im american.
@Jules Juerez This could also be the result of only seeing debates turn out ugly in media, not just their personal life
RosesILoveYou Yeah
UK and Australian parliament are way wilder than our congress though, always yelling and stuff
@Jules Juerez idk, I rarely get angry, and the second someone starts yelling in a debate with me I just end it there because theirs no reason to debate with them at that point, but I'm always surprised to see a debate with no yelling, especially on a topic as disagreed upon as this one
@@77l96 same bro we are the killer
Ed... I just want to say. I love you brother. You are such a valuable asset to the world. Thank you for being you 🙂👌❤️
Americans watching this like: Is that what they call a functional education system?
Pretty much
kiloisnear bruv it’s not tea and crumpets when you go east London , at least in a week a person is killed from knifes from gangs so don’t t listen to your friends
@@danielaziz5611 mong
If I were american I wouldn't be impressed by the British education system... If I were like, rural african I would be
@@christianjamesmiller8388 The only places in Africa that have proper infrastructure and are able to have a worthwhile school system are the ones that the British Empire/United Kingdom had a hand in before leaving.
"If the universe is meaningless, so is the statement that it is so."
- Alan Watts
Love Alan Watts!
Interesting thought
Ok whats your point?
@@InfernoFlame99 I didn't say it, ask Alan
Psychopaths are always intelligent
He keeps saying that the UK for example is not ready to go entirely vegan, that it will take about 50 years to adapt their economy and their agriculture to it. For me, that sounds like a great reason to go vegan, because the choices people make are what motivates change. If everyone in the world went vegan today that wouldn’t work. But that is not going to happen. You don’t need to slow down the change by not going vegan, going vegan is what motivates the change.
Agreed. So many jobs can be created by going vegan. People argued that ending slavery would financially cripple the south. However, other industries took over and they were fine. That was with a sudden abolition of a HUGE part of the American economy. In the case of slavery it wasn’t obvious how they were going to move forward, but there are so many possible vegan jobs to be created with a higher demand.
Yeah I will never go vegan, pigs and cows taste nice
breathing Snow would you consider reducing some of your meat even if it’s just for health benefits? What if you just cut out pork and leave everything else? Or try have a vegetarian/vegan dinner once a week? Or perhaps buy a vegan protein bar and have it as part of your lunch? What if you like two types of crisps, you could buy the ones that don’t contain milk? Perhaps choosing the vegetarian pizza? These little choices add up
You don’t have to go strictly vegan but you can reduce your meat consumption which will reduce the amount of suffering if animals. perhaps one less pig will scream in terror as a farmer chops off it’s tail🤷🏼♀️. you will be helping the environment far more than using paper straws and there will be health benefits on top of all that
Would you consider it?
@@NegativeAccelerate it's a shame you don't hear people say this much I think you have much more chance of making a positive impact by showing people the benefits of cutting down opposed to outright just asking people to give it up completely...
@@NegativeAccelerate Some omnivores might reduce to help the environment, or some for health. If they don't care about animals, they won't care about how many they are responsible for killing.
24:27 "The reason why people don't hurt other people, is because you have a system of laws in place"
Frightening view. The reason why I don't hurt people is because it's cruel and wicked and against my own morals.
This guy is a grim figure all round.
@Azur e only you would as that though is in your head, doesnt enter mine. How on earth can you pass judgement on a total stranger? Shocking.
@Azur e you mean you are. I never mentioned killing. You've got an obsession. Put the computer down and go get your medication.
I don't hurt other people because I feel compassion and empathy for them. So sad how many sick people are out there including the guy in the video. You can even see how sick he looks. I wish him the best. Poor guy, probbably has an empathy defecit or something like that.
You say hurting another human being is "cruel and wicked and against your own morals" and yet your words are so hurtful.
@@amazingly_bookish I suggest you visit a slaughterhouse, then you will see what really is cruel and hurtful. Besides which, you cannot see the DISGUSTING abuse hurled at me by this azure person, because they removed their comments.
Earthling Ed has the clearest mind I know of. It's like he doesn't even have to think before talking. He just comes with the right argument right away.
Experience
Nocolas Pirlet,
Check out Reid of the "Cordial Curiosity" RUclips channel.
@Sam the Storyteller if he only did that he would post once every 6 months. But he did debate "professionals" in the past
then you need to go out and meet some new people
like politicians right? hahahaha
Someone fix the table cloth
😅
Slatt @brennamaykersten
Slatt I see you 👀
Someone OCD
Wish I never read this...>_
This debate should be brought as an example in schools
Leaders in power just laugh at the vegan concept. Just google Theresa May vegan. She slammed a vegan advocate a few years back.
"the reason we don't hurt each other is because of laws" This is just totally empirically wrong on so many levels.
Slavery used to be legal
@@angycucumber4319 yeh by the psychopaths in charge, NOT NORMAL NON CLUSTER B FOLK, we understand morals, and the golden rule.
I’m watching this from the States. You guys are having a genuine intellectual debate, while over here every conversation about veganism vs meat-eaters is like Erin and Joe Exotic having a boxing match.
Sarah Edwards Yh that’s not vegan
@@gdhsk5749 lol
Sarah Edwards literally 😭😭😭😭
It's not just America. In the UK people would be doing the exact same thing if they weren't too scared to offend people. So I can imagine the less friendly people who I don't see often will be just like you described. And on the internet you usually don't talk to people you don't know, so if you go onto anyone's social media, you're guaranteed to find an arguement.
🤣
I guess you could justify doing pretty much anything if your attitude is "none of this matters in trillion years"
Not if u know ur daughters daughters daughter daughter daughter daughter daughter daughter daughter is adorable and still alive 😁
Bob Kundi nah bro earth won’t be here in a trillion years
@@seercreators716 lol
@@bobkundi8858 or, to quote Busted : "your great great great granddaughter... she's pretty fine"
Pretty sure, I don't agree with that argument.
But maybe I could agree with "If there had not been a problem until now, surely won't be a problem in trillion years".
This is better than a debate. It’s two people having a respectful conversation on how to go about the future.
That's what a debate should ideally look like.
A debate is about what’s right not who’s right
I would even say we need more discussions, conversations are random where discussion are used to share about a subject. We need to think things more deeply.
@ plants are 'important' for the ecosystem of the planet. They're not 'unimportant'
what do you mean anyways, since importance is such a shallow word
something can only be important TO someone or something so it has to describe a relationship
(but you only name one partner)
@ lmao
As someone who has been on and off vegan/vegetarian, finding Ed has been so helpful. He is levelheaded, he listens, and gives great rebuttals. It’s refreshing. Thank you.
I like how the non-vegan's points were based on economy and jobs and not how good the meat tastes.
He referenced taste quite a few times
@@Adelicows Well it is a factor
He also said morality is subjective so…
Agree
'The meals got quite boring after a while' basically a mention of taste
Finally an actual DEBATE. Not something where it morphs into personal attacking and things that should be involved in a debate.
Yes, I'm so happy to see this. It's refreshing.
@Sachin how would it be a debate if you agreed with both sides?
people who say meals get boring just dont know how to cook lol
MrAchsas agree! You’re only swapping out one part 😂
seriously.. I've made tastier and healthier meals since taking out animal products and thinking of new alternatives to meals I already love.
theres so many vegan options too theres 80000 plants and only 5 animals that people eat (yuck) and eggs (tortured chickens periods) and cheese (extra yuck)
I agree. I'm not vegan, but I've eaten plenty of delicious plant based meals.
@@user-cq9pd4md8v yea same before i went vegan i always went for quick meals to cook now i actually use my brain xD and do proper meals
Thanks do much for being at the front line!!
Thanks for all you do for animals and for this screwed up world
He’s at the “front line” of his own sense of moral superiority. These animal “rights” activists act so superior.
@@jupiterinaries6150 uh, the ones who say “humans are superior to animals-therefore who cares if they suffer” seem to have the superiority complex 💀
@@jupiterinaries6150 Someone who stands up for the victimized IS superior to someone who disregards their suffering.
@@mountaingirl1753 nope vegans are not superior to meat eaters. They think they’re doing good in the world by standing up for dumb animals when in reality they’re feeding their own egos. Animals could care less whether they live or die. It’s pure instinct on their part.
lmfao destroyed him @@FloridaSprings12
People who blindy follow societys laws without questioning it are the most dangerous type of people
Lounnah I completely agree with your statement.
💯
@@FABIOof119 you talk a lot about science but link to none... Cite your sources if you want to talk science. Name the dozen nutrients you can't get in plants. Show studies that support your claims about fiber ruining the gut... I'll wait.
@@FABIOof119 a vegan diet prevents and reverses heart disease, obesity, cancers, arthritis, osteoporosis and prevents diabetes. and im not just making that up that is science! also animal products have acidic protein which leeches calcium from your bones!
the china study is the biggest study of human nutrition in the world and it says a vegan diet is the best diet for all stages of life including infancy, pregnancy, and old age. a vegan diet is also the ONLY diet proven to reverse heart disease. if were meant to eat meat why does a very diet REVERSE the diseases meat causes?
also that person is talking about how people just follow society even if society isnt ethical. for instance the same people who owned human slaves - still exist. and they dont own slaves now simply because everyone else doesn't. its not toxic to stand up for animals being raped tortured and killed. its toxic to pay for that to happen just because its legal. would you also try rape women if it were legal? its so simple. ❤
@@FABIOof119 lol! ok fat neckbeard i haven't eaten meat for 3 years and have no milk cheese or eggs (vegan) for 1. guess what! i have abs, im ripped af, definitely stronger than you! i can do human flag, gaining muscle, and youre just probably a fat f***ing neckbeard lmao. niiiiiiiice
I was prepared for the worst but got positively surprised.
The Meat Eater just admitted that the legal system is the only thing holding him back from harming humans. It's funny how people are so quick to discard any information that conflicts with their sense of the world. "I'm a meat eater and I'm not ashamed, so therefore everything that this fellow meat eater said is morally correct. Because he represents and reminds me of myself." - Stefanie Dai
@@SplitGoose this is relevant to the original comment... yes
@@websters8665 "positively surprised" Yes, it is relevant. You however are not.
@@SplitGoose ;(
SplitGoose No he didn’t, you completely misunderstood what he was trying to say and twisted his words. You’re not clever.
This is like a discussion between two equally intelligent but completely morally opposite people who are also civil about it. I am here for this.
Well you made me see it now.
Meat still wins ma heart :D
The man in the white and orange jacket was so kind and respectful good for him
I had that kind of total apathy half a year before going vegan. In retrospect it was because I was afraid world is such a dump and nothing can be done about it. Veganism gave me hope. I hope this guy will find the spark too.
And these kind of comments give me hope
Awesome dude!
Well said man. That spark you talk about is a fascinating thing. When the light comes on it's like such a night and day difference. No pun intended.
At the end you could clearly see he was depressed and he was grateful to Ed for talking to him. He doesn't realize his current diet and attitude towards animals only makes him sadder.
Thank you for being open-minded, Grzegorz!! ☺️☺️
This is one of the most calm and respectful conversations I have ever seen.
"I can get behind the value of life..."
"Humans and non-human animals are resources..."
This bloke makes me nervous...
And, he was honest enough to say it out loud, the most dangerous ones pretend the opposite in public (e.g. politicians) but deep inside they think and act with that in mind!
Aidan BUTLER capitalism 🤝 dehumanising humans
Good one
Do you work? Congratulations, you're a resource
he must be a pro capitalism colonialism
must be a pro global capitalism colonialism
The sign says "you". Why are we talking about Kenya?
At the end of the day, veganism/vegetarianism will always win the moral argument. One day I hope I'll be selfless enough commit to fully it.
Wins the moral argument, not the logical one.
Yes correct, veganism will always win the moral argument while an omnivorous diet will win the biological argument.
@@dryfter2021 I know this comment wasn't towards me, but what does that have to do with anything?
It won't.
Morality and moral standards aren't inherently normative.
A person arguing from a teleological or say a utilitarian point of view would have equally valid arguments as a person arguing from a deontological point of view.
@@austinknox8088 there is no biological argument we can survive and thrive either way (barring rare conditions of course) so its up to you whether you want to support the murder and torture of animals or not
After this... American viewers are going to be disappointed with the quality exhibited in their presidential debates.
Before this, after this, if this never existed, i would be always disappointed with our presidential "debates"
This is exactly what happened in the comment section
That’s the secret, Cap...we’re always disappointed
are we forgetting parlament?
After this?
You mean before this?
Idk I've always thought the elections were stupid.
I don’t care about veganism and I never had. But I sat and listened to this entire debate and enjoyed it. I didn’t take any points in because I’m high.. but it was a great debate lads.
that's the spirit
If this doesn't represent the overall population I don't know what does 😂
😂😂
Relatable
i was sipping my coffee whilst simultaneously reading this, and it did not go well
The meat eater seems like he doesn't find much joy in life...or is that just my American positivity and optimism?
This guy could ve just said YOLO. It would ve saved me 27 minutes. GOD DAMNnnn
LOL.
LOL seriously
still, rather support ed through the ads
i hate ads more than my love of Ed.
mmmmmm let that sink in
🤣🤣🤣🤣
In third world countries animal products are luxury ... the developed countries eat up the planet alone.
the diet of kings and queens is killing us all.
Eni That’s is so not true...Traveled a lot and most developing countries meat is a big part of their diet...Veganism is a privilege
@@LuvuluvuLaChic stop pretending rice and beans is a privilege lmao
Thank god for your comment. I'm sick of people saying poor africans or asians would pratically die without meat. Wtf? Meat is still a luxury for the poorest and I'm sure many poor people are vegetarian/mostly vegetarian for financial, cultural reasons. They have their own crops, some since generations.
Masilya111 i dont think you have been to the poor countrys, especially in their country sides...
Ed...continue these debates. You're making a world of a difference. You've changed my life and inspired many others to do so. ❤🌱💪🏻
Same!
and start debating people with a brain
@@connannbarbarin3033 Needle in a haystack 😆
Please
Too bad his rhetoric changed your mind.
I will say to the "meals got boring" point: that's all on your cooking skills. Look up veggie recipes and experiment! So many meat eaters eat the same boring meals over and over and don't have much variation in their cooking skills.
Agreed, I am a new vegan and I'm eating much more variety now, and am feeling so much healthier. Happier too then no animal suffered for it.
Diff is the meat tastes good and not like crap !
I mean it's not hard to look up meat recipes and experiment either. Both meat eaters and vegans can eat the same boring meals over and over.
My friend, how many people can afford to experiment on a vegan diet when the majority of people wake up at 5, wash their teeth and go to work, work= stress, come back at 16, 17:00.There is no time for vegan bullshit for this life.A vegan diet is good for people who do almost no pshysical work, or sit at home and do almost nothing all day but cook and eat every 2 hours.This diet especially for men is feminizing, look at the majority of vegan males with their feminized voices.
@@PieInTheSky9 Yes, but that's not my point. My point is that if you switch to veganism and the reason you quit is because the meals get boring, that's on you. You are the one making those meals. And that many people don't realize how boring their meal routine is until they cut out meat and realize they weren't making very many variations. But when you go vegan or vegetarian, you are essentially forced to learn to use new ingredients and methods of cooking.
-"This conversation was stimulating"
That has to be one of the nicest debate in the century
Yeah surely the hardest ive seen ed had to work
This is probably the best one I've ever seen 😂 both were intelligent and respectful, It's really refreshing to listen to.
yes, two good guys.
Hearing the exchange: "Can I make a point?" "Yes, please you can, of course." was a minor one but arrestingly beautiful, none the less.
“Arrestingly beautiful” that phrasing is so nice
Meat Eater: I haven't seen any cows fly to space.
Ed: You haven't done that either.
I absolutely lost it at this moment. ROFLMFAO
And eating GMO meats causes cancer
@@catsittingcomfortably dude, if you are outside in the sun for to long without sunscreen, you can get cancer, this isn't a good argument to use
@@skullyjones3548 GAZER GAZER! .... NATURE SO IN THE BUILDIN MAN SIMPLE hahahaha
@@catsittingcomfortably lmao GAZER GAZER😂😂
I gasped 😂
Ed, I am watching every one of your videos one at a time, they just get better with each one. You are a treasure to this world, keep fighting for animals, and the rest of us will back you up. People like you are going to change the world for animals.
And animals will continue not giving a fuck about you. You must think animals have a life purpose in their minds. Not even most of us have. Under controlled situations, animals are just energy for a greater good
Finally a debate that doesn’t leave me braindead after 5 minutes. This was very interesting to watch!
Had me braindead after 10 minutes though
A debate that makes you braindead after 15 minutes
I'm very intelligent I'm questioning? Or have mental retardation.
The "We're all floating atoms" argument is dumb. If someone cut off his limbs and as he was writhing in pain came up to him and said "Don't worry mate, we're all just floating atoms," I don't think he'd appreciate it very much.
lol exactly
If you like using science like most of these debaters you can't be more scientific than that we are nothing else but floating atoms moving through space and time and the only reason why we are even talking about this is because unlike all other organisms we were fortunate enough to evolve into an intelligent being. None of this will matter millions of years from now because what is certain is every species will eventually face extinction no matter what and all these ideas about morals and everything humans have will die together with the last of its kind.
First of all the animal has a quick death before slaughter
@@Ik3Devious Sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
@@Ik3Devious sometimes. don't think those stun guns always work before the throats get slit.
just wanted to say you’ve been the biggest source of inspiration for me for the past half a year. When I started questioning myself I realised I had been hypocritical for 16 years of my life and actually needed to take some action. I was veggie for 3 months and vegan coming close to a month now and I’ve got no intentions of going back. Your videos are so helpful for calmly educating everyone, I often wish I could explain myself in the same way you do. The only thing I would say which has been a bit of a shame is the comments from college classmates or friends. rather than seeing veganism as a positive thing, many are quick to oppose and belittle it, constantly trying to catch me out in the foods that I’m eating (which of course never actually works). It’s a shame that people feel threatened and in a sense try to reassure themselves of the choices they are making but puts me down a bit as I never verbalise anything concerning their eating. It is a shame that people can’t embrace what a positive change it is but it’s people like you Ed that will make the difference, thanks so much
Emily Clark yes!!
I've been vegan for a month too because of Earthling Ed and my friends have also belittled me 😒😒. Totally understand what you're going through! Isn't it funny how people object when you choose to NOT pay for animal cruelty?
Is this khaleesi lol. Madness if it is
How refreshing to watch two adults having a mature discussion/debate with mutual respect. As it should be.
Jesus, I would hate to be stuck with this guy at a party
Me
“So how’s your night going”
Him
“It doesn’t really matter, we’re just all floating atoms in space floating to our deaths”
Right?? I wonder if he would use this weirdly dispassionate perspective if we were talking about any other ethical issue. Child labour? Doesn't matter. Corrupt government? We are all just floating here. Hate crimes towards minorities? We all die one day bro, why stress about it
Evasive - deflecting illogical - ignorance 🤨
not cool.. he will very probably watch this video and read the comments... why being mean freely?
Yeah good, I had a fillet steak today, like my ancestors strived for. My daughter had a stick of celery bathed in garlic. We were both equally happy knowing that we both killed life in order to eat. Oh, sorry, did I kill a moving thing. Is that the problem here? Would you eat roadkill, a cow killed by a car fresh from it's natural habitat? Sadly demised? I'm all for giving these animals a happy life, but each tree we kill is probably worse for this planet than the death of each bred farm animal. The planet is less important than a farm animal? Or is the Co2 created by celery irrelevant? stop it. All of you STOP IT. it's daft in every way possible.
@@chuffsie The Co2 released from cultivating celery is minuscule compared with the one produced by a single cow.what your ancestor did was for pure survival. Today it's NOT necessary to rob an animal from their most important thing so you can enjoy 10 min of a meal. You are sooo blinded and conditioned that you can't see it. That moving thing you "killed" is a being that has appreciation for its life, a celery hasn't. Veganism is not about being perfect and we DO cause harm just for existing. We just try to cause the least amount of harm possible. I don't chop up trees and try my best not to cause it. But is is not the same than participating on torturing and killing of animals for no reason.
Its worse when they think they know what they're talking about 😐. Its sad that he thinks the only reason humans dont kill each other is because its against the law
Lb96 do you know what you’re talking about?
@@nestlawatr5643 Laws are just modern proxies for any form of system of consequences. Murder isn't rampant in anarchical societies because murder is antisocial. Laws aren't our basis for morality
Perfectly analytically said..and in other words...we're all love, man
@@TheSadistNat1on Love and consequences, haha.
this guys is a lot smarter than most of the people who come on the show
Ed: You and me have the choice to be vegan
The other guy: im not
Ed: I presumed that, don’t worry
Love it 😂
He only doesn’t kill other people because it’s against the law. Yikes
Ryan Young super yikes
He also said the reason he doesn't eat people is because they might sue him, whereas cows can't file lawsuits.
@Austin Dobbins he may have empathy. I'm not convinced he doesn't have that quality. it seemed like at times he had a nervous voice when it came to eds points. I think he was just an intellectually lazy nihilist who thought he had a point. but he was just being cynical about one quality of subjective morality which was dishonest.
@@ninjaturtletyke3328 I think you're spot on.
Such a psychopath
When people base their arguement on intelligence it baffles me. Pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old child, does that mean any child under the age of 3 qualifies to be slaughtered....
What do you think of abortion?
You would compare a child to a pig lol
@Deeky 123 maybe you need to read what she said again buddy. "Mean" "qualifies" " to be" key words my friend. Dont worry I'll click eventually
@Deeky 123 I know what's she's trying to do. It's a bad example that any logical human being would see through
@@pt.is.education5747 What do you think of ending the life of someone in a coma?
After all the chaos in the world, this is really refreshing.
You're just brainwashed
@@ambrosioramirez9608 🤡
Sure the hardest ive seen ed had to work
“The reason people do t harm animals is because there out of reach” WTF 😳
vegan issue aside its people like this guy is the reason we NEED LAWS. friggin nihilistic bs. V4LIFE!
@YouOnlyLiveTwice haha ..yah ikr 👍🏽
TOTALLY agree Ian. Armchair Nihilists suck bxllz!
@YouOnlyLiveTwice Well said YOLT. And people like you in charge would make a far more humane morally sound environment. Veganism for a better future!
As long as it's sustainable.....it's Impossible ethically..... nihilism though? Smh. Nihilism is a performative contradiction. The man's a living logical fallacy
He wouldn’t hurt a human, because a human would sue him 🤦🏽♀️
I've never seen a casual debate where everyone was so civilized and informed. A real joy to watch something like this
Love your icon :))
You handled this one like a boss Ed, bravo!
It's so painful to watch: so much f*cking indifference about animal suffering. I admire Ed for his infinite patience and for continuing to focus on trying to find commonality in order to persuade, keeping his eyes on the animals. But dang that freaking dude doesn't have an ounce of empathy. Infuriating
we just don't care about our food "feelings"...like it or not farm animals are food and will continue being food...
*infuriating
lmao ur pfp looks like a 12 year old overweight boy is that u
These days the word empathy seems to be thrown around far too loosely.
@@FS-ms2md Why is it about good feelings? To me it's about the consequences of our actions: avoiding contributing to a lot of unnecessary death and suffering, one of the leading causes of climate change and the leading cause of heart disease and diabetes, to name a few.
I’m super impressed with the guy in black. He really seemed to know his stuff and held his points well while being mindful of the conversation itself. He didn’t become overly emotional and he also seemed like a good listener. This conversation basically boiled down to doing what works vs what is right.
Teacher: Why didn't you do your homework?
Me: We are just floating atoms. *silently floats away*
Presumably in a jerky Brownian motion fashion.
Best comment
Meat eater: Did we just become best friends?
Vegan activist: I... I think so...
M:u wanna do karate in the garage?
V:yep
@@sikesine Can we build bunk beds ?
Wanne try and exchange veganisme and normal human for 3 months
After 1 month: u know what ima keep eating meat xD
I love this
Wonderfully calm and respectful discourse. Amazing to see.
"I don't think I could live without milk." What a weird statement. The idea of consuming bovine breast milk was even bizarre and gross to me before I was a vegan.
Yup. If it ain't your mamma, it ain't your milk. Only babies need milk. 💚🌱🌍
Same I've never liked milk much my doctor was pushing milk when I was pregnant, I couldn't do it, gross 🤢
It's an easy source of protein, vitamins and minerals and some like the taste 🤷🏼♂️
@@pt.is.education5747 there's plenty of easy sources that aren't BREAST MILK. dairy is horrible health wise anyway. The smell of milk breath literally makes me gag.
@@Blurggg there's no proof it's unhealthy tho
He did just say, we're all just resources.
Big Brother really did a mindfux on this one. Damn
@Hashtag GetRekt u assume I pay taxes I suppose 🤣
@Hashtag GetRekt I am a 'resource' to my family and employer, yes. But I prefer to pay taxes to Hobo's
@Hashtag GetRekt good Lord. You're a resource to the words per minute Dept. 🤣
@Hashtag GetRekt I'll agree with that.
I think when someone brings up the animals eat other animals argument, something you don’t say is that they occupy an ecological niche in that ecosystem but slaughterhouses are not an ecosystem
They are an evolution of our ecosystem. Due to the mass amount of humans who do eat meat, there has to be mass production of it. And it is cheaper to crest slaughter houses then to individually kill wild animals.
The problem is solved by just researching what a naturalistic fallacy is
Hashtag GetRekt appeal to nature fallacy. What is natural isn’t what’s moral
Eating meat is as wrong as abortion
Huge respect for both of you, I feel that we do live in a civilized society, but unfortunately on those debates people end up being completely the opposite, so I'm really glad that we do have people who can have such a debate, I'm a fail human being and I'm leaning from this, both in a philosophical and human way. Thank you both again for this debate! 👏🏻👏🏻
99% of debates: NO F YOU, NO YOU, YOU ARE WRONG, SHUT UP
The 1%: this video
Alex K Take it you’re not vegan lol
@Time Warp That's the thing. I am open to this. But normaly both sides are just dicks. So this one was a nice surprise.
more like 48.2%
All these arguments boil down to a lack of empathy for the animals suffering.
Yes. You can definitely make that argument. You can say to me, that I am a moral monster in regards to empathy towards animals. But quite frankly, I don't care. As long as eating meat won't put me in some social disadvantage, I don't care. I will happily be friends with vegans. if they would wish not to interact with me, their choice. As of today, my answer to: "why not go vegan?" is simply this: "There is no reason, outside of a moral one to do so".
Ewiril _ let’s agree to disagree; wish u the best even if u don’t care about the beings in suffering.
Ewiril what about environmental concerns or health?
@Kenny Not in my lifetime. Selfish, I know. + The environment wouldn't get THAT much better, for all the transport of all the veggies that would be necessary. And who says that you can't be healthy on a balanced diet, which includes meat?
@@Ewiril Science.
These commenters have never heard a normal conversation before.
I thought mystery man represented himself really well until he confessed himself a moral nihilist around 20:30.
What is wrong with nihilism? Do you simply not wish to think about anything negatively? You would be denying many harsh realities of this world we live in. It isn't like being nihilistic makes you a psychopath.
@@elofkjellson3906 To say nothing matters because it won't matter at some point in the future is to be completely obsessed with the future and having impact on it. That need itself is irrational and super ego heavy. Meaning doesn't need to be dependent on "later". To me, many nihilists seem to take something obvious, like the eventual death of Earth, and then use it as an excuse to be apathetic (proven link with depression). I don't remember this video super well, but I think it may have been a last ditch effort appealing to futility. As if to say "This doesn't matter much anyways, so I'll eat what I want". Some forms of nihilism are factually true...don't want to get to caught up in that. Experience in each present moment matters, and need not be tied down to influence over anything in the future.
Imagine being interviewed AFTER this guy.
That guy was a legend and this was insanely informative and entertaining to watch. Two very strong thinkers and good at putting their thoughts into words. Super great video. Thank you for sharing this moment with us.
Guy is well mannered and educated, sure, but logically, he makes poor points. It's "personal choice". Well, just like everything in this world pretty much, so with this argument, we should be able to excuse all atrocities. Then he makes an argument for the cost - it's cheaper to use pigs or other animals to produce some of the materials and resources needed for medicine and whatnot. Well, guess what is also cheaper - having slaves work for you. Should we go back there, because it's cheaper? "We are not ready yet" If we aren't ready now, we never will, it will get worse, not better.
"It doesn't make a difference in the end" Well, if someone killed someone he loved for no reason, it would make quite a difference for him, surely. Even if in million years, it doesn't matter.
"Cow hasn't travel to space yet." So, by this logic, it doesn't matter whether you feel pain, happiness, want to live and more, if you aren't capable of thinking at least on a level of a human, you are not worthy of being treated anything less than being murdered purely because you taste well. I guess, by this logic, we could kill human babies, since they can't communicate on that level and couldn't possibly make a spaceship and travel to space.
Also, general argument that so many meat eaters love to make about how this would have some bad consequences and just big change would effect lives and such - well of course, changes big as this can't happen overnight with no noticable effects. So, it's better to keep torturing and murdering millions upon millions living beings every day, just because change would take time and adaptation? The world has gone through so many big changes and we always adapt - when we have to. We boast and call ourselves the most advance race, make tons of unnecessary and pointless decisions and put money to make them happen, but when things that truly matter and would make a world a better place would need attention, nope, can't happen.
I find his arguments very weak, but at least it was calm discussion.
@@Bl4ckheart well both sides made some weak arguements, so i think its fine
@@Bl4ckheart I agree completely, I mean, it is nice that they are not screaming to each other, but their arguments are not equal. We are so numb with the political state of things that two guys speaking calmly surprises people, but the arguments of Ben (the meat eater) are really weaker than Ed's. Even if you think that Ed didn't articulate his argument in the best way possible, morally speaking, Ben couldn't justify meat eating.
DH I think he had a mixture of logically sound and unsound points. There were a few issues at the onset of the discussion as the parameters weren’t clear from a sentence on a table cloth. The man initially began his argument on the basis of a worldwide change while Ed was aiming for specifically the UK and developed western world. Past that, there were a few duds in terms of arguments but the underlying issue was the difference between a nihilistic ideology vs a more optimistic moral equalist one. Also you have to consider that this was a table in public egging people on for a spur of the moment discussion. You can’t expect the highest quality of arguments all throughout as you would from a premeditated debate as in those cases both sides have the opportunity to formulate and regurgitate arguments ahead of time and consider what the opposition might have to say, adjusting your preparation accordingly. People aren’t as eloquent without that prior notice.
This guy is still asleep
Yeah, lots of numbers off the top of his head screams brainwashed repeater of facts to justify stuff
@@l.l.8022 well, Ed uses facts and logic. Not just a quick fact and then waver on ur own point. Ed is a great example because he's polite, listens and encourages them to talk n open up.
The veganism agenda and people that fall for it are the ones sleeping really.. Do what you please though but none of yall are contributing to a better world. Thinking you make a difference by changing just your diet thats sleeping really..
@@l.l.8022 uhhh no?
99% inert
I like how you let him speak more than you speak yourself. And whenever he starts to speak, you let him. thumbs up.
People with this kind of cold world view cannot get behind the very valid moral arguments made my Ed. Honestly the core belief is unchangeable and any global arguments won’t work because it doesnt actually concern them. This is hard for us vegans to imagine since many of us feel pain knowing how animals are treated. Would be very interested in seeing Ed spread more knowledge on the medical perspective because that would have a better chance of concerning them directly.
Slightly concerning that he's only prevented from committing crime by the threat of legal punishment.
Yeeeah pretty sure some people just don't wanna hurt people because they don't want to hurt people? He did say there wasn't a difference between killing 1 animal and killing a trillion so I dunno 'bout this guy lol
This is the first-ever earthling Ed video I watched, I disliked it in May, went vegan in July lol. Came back here to symbolically switch that dislike to a like.
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Character progression, I love it :)
Wow. Nice!
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It’s difficult to argue with someone who’s a borderline nihilist
If you like using science like most of these debaters you can't be more scientific than that we are nothing else but floating atoms moving through space and time and the only reason why we are even talking about this is because unlike all other organisms we were fortunate enough to evolve into an intelligent being. None of this will matter millions of years from now because what is certain is every species will eventually face extinction no matter what and all these ideas about morals and everything humans have will die together with the last of its kind.
@@blackmarlin3166 It is true that eventually none of this will ultimately matter. But it currently matters to everyone that's experiencing it. If you argue that things don't matter because eventually they won't matter then why can't I keep children as slaves? Why can't i murder, rape and rob who I please? We are all experiencing the present so we recognise that, as we don't want to suffer in the present, we should not make others suffer.
@@ammettheyellingfrog1 That's a good point but if i may use his argument there's a line between man and animals, what makes us human valuable is that we have a sense of usefulness. Humans like he said are also resources in way that we can exchange goods and services, we can build a productive society, we have a level of importance that is needed to maintain a suitable environment to live in. With that being said we are left with one question "What can animals contribute since they are all incapable of doing what we can to affect our lives or simply what are their importance to us?" A cow would just continue on eating grass and reproduce if we leave them alone. And the reason why atleast most of us choose not to hurt and exploit other humans is that we think that they are equal to us like we don't wan't them to be put in that situation as much as we don't want ourselves to be put in that situation. Moreover, even if there is not a single law present in the world there's still a sense of accountability in our actions because as humans we have complex emotions in that we can grieve, feel violated eventually build contempt and hatred for one another, if someone killed your loved ones it is not a mystery that you might find a way to retaliate and hurt them back too that's why hurting another person is not the same with hurting animals. I think these are the things what all non-vegans always have in the back of their head that they can't put in words.
@@blackmarlin3166 We don't measure a human's worth on what they can contribute. For example, you wouldn't advocate the killing of disabled children on the grounds that they are simply going to leach off of society and never contribute anything. If you did suggest that most people would agree that it isn't moral. So if we don't measure a human's worth on what they can contribute to human society then why should we measure an animal's in that way? I agree with you that we don't put other humans in situations that we ourselves wouldn't want to be in but why not extend that to non-human animals? You wouldn't torture a human in a factory farm because they feel pain so would suffer but do animals not also feel pain and suffer? You can say that you treat humans well because they are equal but what is the relevant thing that makes them equal? For example, someone who's racist would assert that a black person is not equal them but wouldn't have a good reason for believing this so you would dismiss it. I'm not saying that animals are equal to humans (that's a common misconception about vegans) but animals do feel pain and can suffer both physically and emotionally. And ultimately you don't decide how you treat a human based on their intelligence, emotional intelligence, number of social bonds they've formed or on their physical appearance, so why should animals be treated differently based on these things? As Jeremy Bentham put it "The question is not, Can they reason?, nor Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?" Animals feel emotions too, which biologically are no different to ours. They can form negative bonds with people and other animals. My dog knows the dogs that have started fights with him in the past so will try to start fights with them even though he's usually very friendly. If you're interested in the philosophy of why people are vegan I'd recommend this as a good introduction ruclips.net/video/y3-BX-jN_Ac/видео.html
@@ammettheyellingfrog1 Yes but that's only in the realm of if someone is defective/abnormal and the only reason why we categorize them like that is because humans aren't suppose to be like that, criminals are also considered as such that's why we put them away as much as we can. An animal is an animal they can never function like us under any given circumstances. "Suffering" or "unnecessary suffering" is really a tricky term in a way that it begs the questions: Why is taking a life of animals is universally justified by any moral beliefs if it's in survival situations? How could you allow someone take a life of other animals and fully disregard their sentience? Is their suffering different from our suffering that we feel that our lives our more important than theirs that they could die so we could live but never the other way around? What justifies this?