I honestly have no words, other than I sort of had a moment where my viewpoint on what chaotic is was slightly shattered today. When I think of chaotic normally, I would think Cryptopsy, Dragged Into Sunlight, Anaal Nathrakh, Pig Destroyer, Vital Remains, and Immolation to name a few bands. However, today was a case of my views on chaotic were changed when I came across a band called, “The Antichrist Imperium”. I heard their song Exorcist Evisceration, and that song made my jaw drop completely. At first, I was like, “Did Cryptopsy and Deathspell Omega have a love child?” and then the song slightly slowed down, and there was clean singing, and I was like, “OPETH!?” because it sounded like it. To tie that back into the discussion, that’s one of those cases of breaking musical boundaries I’d say. On the topic of people going on about metal just being noise, or rather, calling unintelligent in my case, my paternal grandmother heard a snippet of Demiurge by Meshuggah (which I didn’t want her to listen to because I knew she wouldn’t like it), and immediately she went, “It’s stupid is what it is”, and in the back of my mind, I was like, “It’s not stupid, you just don’t understand the music.”. Hell, she asked why I even listened to it all the time, sort of in a passive aggressive way which I don’t think she meant, and I’m over here like, “It’s simply my preference.” At the end of the day though, definitely it’s a case of to some people, metal is noise, but only because they don’t understand it, and aren’t used to it. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED Talk lmao
I think sometimes ya gotta get used to some louder/more complex (e.g. more instruments or more layers) ya need to get used to it first before you can begin to discern the rhythm or melody etc. Ur brain needs to learn how to separate the sounds a bit with selective attention. It's kinda like if you're used to typical Western US food and the first time u try e.g. Indian food some people are like wtf is this.
I really like Jute Gyte. It is possibly one of the most abrasive artists ever, but I think they use noise in an interesting way to provide a really unique and disturbing feeling, which ofc isn't for everyone but I really enjoy it.
Very interesting topic. The key word in the title of the video is "just" - because "just noise" is an insult. It's implying that noise is inferior to music - but in reality it's just a different form of art. This same issue occurred in the Classical realm long before it occurred in Rock/Jazz/Metal. "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" by Penderecki is a 1961 composition that challenges the definition of "music" - it's played by a string orchestra but contains no rhythm, harmony or melody - it's waves of eerie sonorities, swelling up and down. My opinion is that this piece is "noise art" and not "music". For something to be music it must contain recognizable patterns of melody/harmony/rhythm. The fourth element in music is timbre - and it's an extremely important element, but on it's own can not be music. Timbre is like sound colour - you can be expressive with it, especially when it's applied to music via an orchestra or a distorted guitar - but in order for it to be music, the instruments must be playing a recognizable pattern. In the context of Metal - 99.9% of the stuff people say is "just noise" - is simply because of 2 things - 1 - The musical composition itself is relatively difficult for them to grasp because of the complexity of it and/or the deliberate feeling of "implied chaos" - despite there still actually being "order" to it - ie. you can remember the patterns after repeated listens. 2 - The timbral presentation of the music is layered with so much "noise" and distortion that many people can't hear past the haze of chaotic sound colours - that for them obscure the musical content. For example - you can get albums of Metal songs played by String Quartet - trying showing people who think the Metal songs are "just noise" those versions and they would be able to discern the rhythmic/melodic/harmonic content of the music much clearer. Obviously Metal challenges the ears with timbral abrasiveness but this is a pretty good "test" for whether it's music or not - if there are no musical patterns - it's not music. If there are patterns - then no matter how obscured they are by layers of timbral noise - it's still music.
Absolutely love this comment and fully agree with literally all of this. And that's the big definitional difference: The implications. and while there are a lot of forms of metal that simply do not translate to other formats, it's no less 'musical', even if the definition is a bit different. Had a lot of fun going into this and love this comment a ton, thank you!
Something that helped me realize that a lot of noisy metal like brutal death metal and grindcore have some sort of structure is listening to something more noisy like harsh noise where there is no structure. Acclimating genuinely works lol.
oh for sure. like, there are some catchy ass groovy grind/bdm bands. and i don't particularly enjoy harsh noise either LOL but like you said, it has its place at the table :]
I definitely used to always regard metal as 'just noise' ie. I felt like it had a complete lack of 'heaviness', ironically, by trying so hard to be 'heavy'. It felt so juvenile to me like it was made by people with zero nuance, simply turning everything up to 11 and thinking that doing so was automatically creating intensity. Not enough light and shade, not enough dynamic progression, nowhere near enough consideration of how things like melody and harmony can be used to generate impact (which equates to perceived heaviness). I've eventually become a fan of a lot of metal, spanning many subgenres, but hilariously that only happened BECAUSE I found it's desensitising noisiness to be helpful for concentrating on my work (remote working at a screen all day zoning out) - so I got into it precisely because I thought it was 'just noise'! Of course over time I have acclimatised and developed that acquired taste needed to appreciate it more, and I have listened to such a vast amount of metal that I was bound to uncover that 1% which is genius (probably about the same ratio of great-to-shit as all other music genres, to be fair).
Have you explored NYC underground black metal scene? (Yellow Eyes, Negative Plane, Funereal Presence)? I’m just discovering them and the music is so good.. they probably don’t want flowers but the music is just so good…
I understand the complaint. Yesterday, the very first customer I served at my store had the thickest accent and a wad of unsorted, crumpled bills and barely a proper enunciation for which pump and how much in cash, which I didn't count (assuming what I heard is what she had). As a kid, there was a lot of power tools going on in my house. I still have tinnitus. I couldn't get into metal until much later in life because my house didn't even have walls and I couldn't get a job in which to purchase a CD player with headphones that wouldn't disintegrate like whatever pair happened upon my brother's fat, sweaty head after a couple months. At some point, a given din pretty much muffles out the lyrics. Now, I skipped out on refined eighties-style metal that had actual decent guitar chops and production because moral crises-obsessed parenting made assumptions about my ability to parse nuance. I started listening to radio in earnest in my teenage years in the nineties, an age when the radio was unlistenable, not because nobody had talent, but that everyone followed the same formula of yarling, down-tuned, depressive crunch and engaged in an arms race to top each other. If you asked me what Stop Tomato Program was singing about, I would reply, "Maybe a 'Ham and Mustard Shake'?" with full sincerity. Unless you're talking about instrumental tracks, I understand the complaint entirely. Some people simply cannot hear the lyrics, a major component of the experience and context--on why everything must be heavy to begin with. With every Scorpions, Journey, Metallica, Alice Cooper or any lady-fronted symphonic outlet, 99% of us comprise every other System of a Down, Tool, Cannibal Corpse, Anal Cunt, Deathklok, Amon Amarth, and other deliberate guttural growling and screeching that sort of defeats the purpose of lyrics. I have to play a track multiple times or read a lyric sheet before I can legitimately claim that I am a fan, barring few exceptions. SPEAK THE FUCK UP!
to be fair i wouldnt put on metal while im trying to work (well music generally because i focus better with no stimulus). i love it but its only because i enjoy the genre when i can stop everything, sit down and appreciate it. i used to hate metal since everyone around me hates the music i now currently like. when i separated myself from those people and created a divide i started to do things regardless of what others think. metal or any alternative music is my way of doing it. i usually find anyone that likes alternative music and other types of music that arent super popular just appreciate the artform more than surface level. Point being i think music to most people is just background noise. metal is the opposite of what people want and thats the whole point. edit: right now i am struggling to vibe with hip hop that everyone talks about. I just want to get away from it because all my life till this point. Hip Hop and rap was what was considered music and rock and metal was trash. I just associate those people with their music and i dont want it to be like thay but i just cant help it.
i used to hate metal since everyone around me hates the music i now currently like. I totally get this. I think a lot of times, people get shaped by that need to conform and that sort of stuff. People make all sorts of assumptions over metal, but in reality it just...isn't what a lot of people think it is. Glad to hear you set youreslf apart.
Heres a thing: art is subjective. What might seem like a deep meaningful statement to one person may seem like gibberish to another. Metal in particular has always seems to tread the line of what is and isnt considered art. People now find stuff like nirvana easy listening but i betcha if someone from the 50s heard it, they would call it noise because they arent used to it. Where the lines are drawn differ drastically from person to person. For instance me who listens to anything imaginable and my mom who finds even rage against the machine too intense. Its a very interesting if you think about it.
Objectively, if I can't enjoy it, then I see no point in listening to it further. Also objectively, just because I don't enjoy it does not detract from the validity of the work as art or music.
Unfortunately just through the video essays I've done and reviewing, absolutely. There were quite a few when I spoke about Sunn, Harsh Wall Noise, japanese noise/metal, etc. You'd be shocked how many people call "normal" metal genres just noise or not real music. shit's wild lmao
@@TheMetalTempestYT considering how there are tons of bands today that are much more accessible (e.g., Spiritbox, Sleep Token, etc.) which metal elitists call not real metal, I find it really funny how there's people on the opposite spectrum who call ALL metal not real music lmao
Tackling that argument maybe was brave in the 80s but not today. Metal as a whole isnt radical anymore, just like hiphop it got tame and is now popular music. People who engage with that topic are hysterical and trapped in a world that is long gone.
do I think metal music is noise no i don't think it is not noise or screamo because metal and screamo and noise LMAO are different genres also while watching this on my phone i am listening to metal music on my computer lol
Definitely one of my favorite videos I've made recently. Think this topic is a really fun one to go into in-depth. What're your opinions on this?!
@@TheMetalTempestYT supergroup drama would be a good video
@TheMetalTempestYT I think a video of a more in-depth video on bands controversies would be awesome,love to hear your opinion
"All I hear is noise" is the lettering on the back of an In Flames t-shirt I have.
oh fuck yeah love it. one of my favorite shows i've ever seen!
Isn’t all music just noise?
Fair point
You get it LMAO we are just fish swimming in a fish bowl as Pink Floyd said!!!!!!!
🤔
Interesting point, possibly..
I honestly have no words, other than I sort of had a moment where my viewpoint on what chaotic is was slightly shattered today. When I think of chaotic normally, I would think Cryptopsy, Dragged Into Sunlight, Anaal Nathrakh, Pig Destroyer, Vital Remains, and Immolation to name a few bands. However, today was a case of my views on chaotic were changed when I came across a band called, “The Antichrist Imperium”. I heard their song Exorcist Evisceration, and that song made my jaw drop completely. At first, I was like, “Did Cryptopsy and Deathspell Omega have a love child?” and then the song slightly slowed down, and there was clean singing, and I was like, “OPETH!?” because it sounded like it. To tie that back into the discussion, that’s one of those cases of breaking musical boundaries I’d say. On the topic of people going on about metal just being noise, or rather, calling unintelligent in my case, my paternal grandmother heard a snippet of Demiurge by Meshuggah (which I didn’t want her to listen to because I knew she wouldn’t like it), and immediately she went, “It’s stupid is what it is”, and in the back of my mind, I was like, “It’s not stupid, you just don’t understand the music.”. Hell, she asked why I even listened to it all the time, sort of in a passive aggressive way which I don’t think she meant, and I’m over here like, “It’s simply my preference.” At the end of the day though, definitely it’s a case of to some people, metal is noise, but only because they don’t understand it, and aren’t used to it. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED Talk lmao
It's because she was scared off as a young lady by black Sabbath's sPoOkY aEsThEtIc, bOoOoOoOoOoOoO 👻
I think sometimes ya gotta get used to some louder/more complex (e.g. more instruments or more layers) ya need to get used to it first before you can begin to discern the rhythm or melody etc. Ur brain needs to learn how to separate the sounds a bit with selective attention.
It's kinda like if you're used to typical Western US food and the first time u try e.g. Indian food some people are like wtf is this.
I really like Jute Gyte. It is possibly one of the most abrasive artists ever, but I think they use noise in an interesting way to provide a really unique and disturbing feeling, which ofc isn't for everyone but I really enjoy it.
Ooo, I'll have to look into them; I haven't heard of them I don't believe!
Do you know what's noise?
Noise.
you are correct.
Thats crazy! I never knew that!!!
Every sound we hear is just noise. :p
Real shit lol
Very interesting topic. The key word in the title of the video is "just" - because "just noise" is an insult. It's implying that noise is inferior to music - but in reality it's just a different form of art.
This same issue occurred in the Classical realm long before it occurred in Rock/Jazz/Metal.
"Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima" by Penderecki is a 1961 composition that challenges the definition of "music" - it's played by a string orchestra but contains no rhythm, harmony or melody - it's waves of eerie sonorities, swelling up and down.
My opinion is that this piece is "noise art" and not "music".
For something to be music it must contain recognizable patterns of melody/harmony/rhythm.
The fourth element in music is timbre - and it's an extremely important element, but on it's own can not be music.
Timbre is like sound colour - you can be expressive with it, especially when it's applied to music via an orchestra or a distorted guitar - but in order for it to be music, the instruments must be playing a recognizable pattern.
In the context of Metal - 99.9% of the stuff people say is "just noise" - is simply because of 2 things -
1 - The musical composition itself is relatively difficult for them to grasp because of the complexity of it and/or the deliberate feeling of "implied chaos" - despite there still actually being "order" to it - ie. you can remember the patterns after repeated listens.
2 - The timbral presentation of the music is layered with so much "noise" and distortion that many people can't hear past the haze of chaotic sound colours - that for them obscure the musical content.
For example - you can get albums of Metal songs played by String Quartet - trying showing people who think the Metal songs are "just noise" those versions and they would be able to discern the rhythmic/melodic/harmonic content of the music much clearer.
Obviously Metal challenges the ears with timbral abrasiveness but this is a pretty good "test" for whether it's music or not - if there are no musical patterns - it's not music. If there are patterns - then no matter how obscured they are by layers of timbral noise - it's still music.
Absolutely love this comment and fully agree with literally all of this. And that's the big definitional difference: The implications. and while there are a lot of forms of metal that simply do not translate to other formats, it's no less 'musical', even if the definition is a bit different. Had a lot of fun going into this and love this comment a ton, thank you!
Something that helped me realize that a lot of noisy metal like brutal death metal and grindcore have some sort of structure is listening to something more noisy like harsh noise where there is no structure. Acclimating genuinely works lol.
not saying harsh noise does not have a value just that it accomplishes its purpose of being anti-music
oh for sure. like, there are some catchy ass groovy grind/bdm bands. and i don't particularly enjoy harsh noise either LOL but like you said, it has its place at the table :]
I definitely used to always regard metal as 'just noise' ie. I felt like it had a complete lack of 'heaviness', ironically, by trying so hard to be 'heavy'. It felt so juvenile to me like it was made by people with zero nuance, simply turning everything up to 11 and thinking that doing so was automatically creating intensity. Not enough light and shade, not enough dynamic progression, nowhere near enough consideration of how things like melody and harmony can be used to generate impact (which equates to perceived heaviness). I've eventually become a fan of a lot of metal, spanning many subgenres, but hilariously that only happened BECAUSE I found it's desensitising noisiness to be helpful for concentrating on my work (remote working at a screen all day zoning out) - so I got into it precisely because I thought it was 'just noise'! Of course over time I have acclimatised and developed that acquired taste needed to appreciate it more, and I have listened to such a vast amount of metal that I was bound to uncover that 1% which is genius (probably about the same ratio of great-to-shit as all other music genres, to be fair).
Noise is A genre now
It is!
there is no longer a such thing as something that can't be considered music
I'd agree with that for sure
Have you explored NYC underground black metal scene? (Yellow Eyes, Negative Plane, Funereal Presence)? I’m just discovering them and the music is so good.. they probably don’t want flowers but the music is just so good…
I've known some NYC black metal bands but I haven't heard of these/dived too deep into 'em. I'll have to do that, thanks for the recommendations
Reminds me of when people say stuff like "oh I can't stand all that screamo crap", when the music isn't even remotely screamo-related 😂
Everytime i hear slipknot called screamo i die a little inside
Fucking MOOD
😭 I've done shit on that because it's so wild. Oh my God
noise not music! i fucking love grind
I understand the complaint. Yesterday, the very first customer I served at my store had the thickest accent and a wad of unsorted, crumpled bills and barely a proper enunciation for which pump and how much in cash, which I didn't count (assuming what I heard is what she had). As a kid, there was a lot of power tools going on in my house. I still have tinnitus. I couldn't get into metal until much later in life because my house didn't even have walls and I couldn't get a job in which to purchase a CD player with headphones that wouldn't disintegrate like whatever pair happened upon my brother's fat, sweaty head after a couple months.
At some point, a given din pretty much muffles out the lyrics. Now, I skipped out on refined eighties-style metal that had actual decent guitar chops and production because moral crises-obsessed parenting made assumptions about my ability to parse nuance. I started listening to radio in earnest in my teenage years in the nineties, an age when the radio was unlistenable, not because nobody had talent, but that everyone followed the same formula of yarling, down-tuned, depressive crunch and engaged in an arms race to top each other. If you asked me what Stop Tomato Program was singing about, I would reply, "Maybe a 'Ham and Mustard Shake'?" with full sincerity.
Unless you're talking about instrumental tracks, I understand the complaint entirely. Some people simply cannot hear the lyrics, a major component of the experience and context--on why everything must be heavy to begin with. With every Scorpions, Journey, Metallica, Alice Cooper or any lady-fronted symphonic outlet, 99% of us comprise every other System of a Down, Tool, Cannibal Corpse, Anal Cunt, Deathklok, Amon Amarth, and other deliberate guttural growling and screeching that sort of defeats the purpose of lyrics. I have to play a track multiple times or read a lyric sheet before I can legitimately claim that I am a fan, barring few exceptions. SPEAK THE FUCK UP!
Mountain Dew pineapple? Crangrape
Mountain dew liberty chill!
@@TheMetalTempestYT MERICA
MURICAAA
@@TheMetalTempestYT WTF IS A KILOMETER
Metal is just noise. That's like saying Angels singing is just a choir hymn. Metal is audio Nectar of the God's. Praise be. 🤘😈🤘
Love it LMAO
Dude is that sticker of the guy with no eyes Russel from Gorillaz?
Correct!
to be fair i wouldnt put on metal while im trying to work (well music generally because i focus better with no stimulus). i love it but its only because i enjoy the genre when i can stop everything, sit down and appreciate it.
i used to hate metal since everyone around me hates the music i now currently like. when i separated myself from those people and created a divide i started to do things regardless of what others think.
metal or any alternative music is my way of doing it. i usually find anyone that likes alternative music and other types of music that arent super popular just appreciate the artform more than surface level.
Point being i think music to most people is just background noise. metal is the opposite of what people want and thats the whole point.
edit: right now i am struggling to vibe with hip hop that everyone talks about. I just want to get away from it because all my life till this point. Hip Hop and rap was what was considered music and rock and metal was trash.
I just associate those people with their music and i dont want it to be like thay but i just cant help it.
i used to hate metal since everyone around me hates the music i now currently like.
I totally get this.
I think a lot of times, people get shaped by that need to conform and that sort of stuff. People make all sorts of assumptions over metal, but in reality it just...isn't what a lot of people think it is. Glad to hear you set youreslf apart.
Sweeds be like "Is is there no Melody "?
LOL true
Heres a thing: art is subjective. What might seem like a deep meaningful statement to one person may seem like gibberish to another. Metal in particular has always seems to tread the line of what is and isnt considered art. People now find stuff like nirvana easy listening but i betcha if someone from the 50s heard it, they would call it noise because they arent used to it. Where the lines are drawn differ drastically from person to person. For instance me who listens to anything imaginable and my mom who finds even rage against the machine too intense.
Its a very interesting if you think about it.
Well absolutely, that's why I'm fascinated by it. I think trying to define it will always be impossible. 😭
Exactly
Objectively, if I can't enjoy it, then I see no point in listening to it further. Also objectively, just because I don't enjoy it does not detract from the validity of the work as art or music.
Wait, are there still people who unironically say that all metal is "just noise"? This is news to me lmao
Unfortunately just through the video essays I've done and reviewing, absolutely. There were quite a few when I spoke about Sunn, Harsh Wall Noise, japanese noise/metal, etc. You'd be shocked how many people call "normal" metal genres just noise or not real music. shit's wild lmao
@@TheMetalTempestYT considering how there are tons of bands today that are much more accessible (e.g., Spiritbox, Sleep Token, etc.) which metal elitists call not real metal, I find it really funny how there's people on the opposite spectrum who call ALL metal not real music lmao
I'm the person I'd you tell me a band,artist,singer sucks I gotta check them out
LMAO I felt that. I cannot help myself but to be drawn to the controversial
Tackling that argument maybe was brave in the 80s but not today. Metal as a whole isnt radical anymore, just like hiphop it got tame and is now popular music.
People who engage with that topic are hysterical and trapped in a world that is long gone.
do I think metal music is noise no i don't think it is not noise or screamo because metal and screamo and noise LMAO are different genres also while watching this on my phone i am listening to metal music on my computer lol
Oh yeah absolutely LMAO what're you listening to?!
@@TheMetalTempestYT wraith fueled by fear
The moment I hear someone call metal music "Just Noise". I hear "Hey, I'm a dumb shit."