I couldn't disagree more about Dafoe "phoning in" his performance. He literally insisted on doing most of his own stunts. Was he as good as he was in Sam Raimi's original Spider-man movie? That's hard to say, since he obviously had a lot more screen time in that movie. His performance in this one was certainly less over the top, but I found him a lot more threatening in this one. I also thought him and Tom Holland both knocked their final fight scene out of the park, not just as an action scene, but also dramatically. I legitimately thought they both gave great performances, especially Tom Holland.
1:34:20 Watching this back, Sorry but Connor, for an astute moviegoer, I don't know how you read the scene this way. Peter goes in prepared to make good on his promise to MJ and Ned, only to see they are happy and excited to being going to MIT, free from the stress and baggage that comes with being friends with Spider-Man. Even after this, Peter is going to explain himself and then sees MJ's injury and realizes he is putting his friends in danger by coming back into their lives and it was only being in the outsiders perspective that allowed him to realize this. I'm sorry but I don't think the scene could have been more clear. Peter wasn't unable to communicate, he was conflicted. I saw this scene as a perfect example of a Spider-Man self sacrifice. And Cap, he doesn't have to TELL us his motivation. Everything was communicated with his face seeing ned and MJ happy, his concern with MJ's injury, holding back tears as he says goodbye and puts he note away.
I completely agree about the ending. I don't see how Peter letting go of Ned and MJ to keep them safe is character regression. That felt pretty classic Spider-man to me.
With no offence to the man, but I have noticed that Cap sometimes has trouble with visual story-telling and needs everything spelled out or otherwise it "isn't made clear enough"
@@SpedeVesku He’s a comicbook guy at heart so maybe he’s just too used to thought bubbles over everyone’s heads, spelling out exactly what they’re thinking.
@@SpedeVesku he explained himself that he knew what that scene was supposed to be but his point was how it played off like he said; like he just got cold feet to him, and I kind of agree
Regarding the whole SNL talk, I think there is naturally going to be some degree of surreal watching 3 generations of Spider-Man characters talking to each other on screen. I think they did a great job of not just having characters pop in and say catharses for the most part. The chemistry worked and the characters had narrative purpose. I don't know what Dafoe Captain Logan watched. I didn't think it was Oscar worthy, but I thought he was really giving it his all and bringing a real gravitas to Goblin.
I did feel the surrealness of seeing the 3 spider-man onscreen together. Also the fact dafoe wanted to his own stunts and not come back just for a cameo tells how commited dafoe was. Also how else did he expect the 3 spider-men and villians interactions to be.
The idea that all that’s informing the ending is the big business side of things makes not a lock of sense to me. It’s so clearly the only way this story could’ve ended given Peter’s character arc and decisions throughout.
Consequences in Spider-Man: Homecoming Spider-Man losing the Stark internship (whether you like Stark or not is irrelevant) due to putting everyone's life in danger on the ferry. Parker learning that he needs to take down Vulture because what he's doing is dangerous to the people of New York and not because he wants to impress or join the superhero's he looks up to. He also ruins his relationship with Liz after making the hard choice to do what's right over what's easy. Consequences in Spider-Man: Far From Home Parker giving up the power bestowed on him by hero's who came before due to feeling like a poor replacement for said hero's before realising the truth that being Spider-Man is enough. Mysterio, a man who can manipulate the truth (truth being the main theme Spider-Man: Far From Home), is literally a consequence for Peter's insecurities and it takes the ENTIRE MOVIE for him to overcome said consequences. If you think there are no consequences try watching them again and paying attention.
Yeah what I love about Homecoming is that it’s entirely built around Peter’s actions and consequences. Also I like that all 3 of these movies end with either Peter or Spider-Man in a good place and the other being in a bad place. That’s classic Spider-Man.
Cap isn't a consistent reviewer. He just likes what he likes and it's obvious when you look at his different opinions of movies. He complained that in The Dark Knight the theme with the movie is spelled out with exposition at the end. But if a movie uses symbolism, nuance or just indirect exposition he complains that he doesn't understand it and it's not explained and oftentimes what he claims he doesn't understand is obvious if you just watch the movie actively instead of passively. And if you're reviewer for a living you should be watching every movie actively.
It was almost refreshing to hear someone not fawn all over this movie, but this stream NEEDED someone defending the film. I think there is too much good stuff in the film that wasn't discussed because so much time was spent complaining about the negative aspects. Connor especially, I would have liked to see challenged because he was really laying into this films. WORST MCU films, really. Really? Another issue I have with this conversation is you guys seem to REALLY fixate on certain issues. I barely disagreed with some of the problems you points out, but for me it is about how big of a deal it is. Was it stupid for Peter to go to Strange to solve his dilemma? Yes. Should he have known better? yep. Would screwing you and your friends out of getting into MIT be the feel like for a 17 year old, perhaps even more than someone potentially being arrested? YES! Magic is always convoluted. Look no further than the beloved Harry Potter movies which have a spell for everything that creates massive problems and questions. To me, the question is whether or not the payoff is worth it. That doesn't mean you can't complain about the magic and its logic, but I don't think it was stupid enough to ignore the rest of the movie or anything.
This is a good video but there are some errors in some points being raised. One thing I noticed is when one of you guys point out Dafoe Goblin tricked Peter into helping him when in reality Norman Osborn was genuine in his plea for help, and he wasn’t pulling a rouse. That was good Norman that had taken control of his body again.
Yeah I meant to go into that more. My issue with that is that Peter knows Norman has an alternate identity, he and May make it clear, and Peter has nothing in place to stop Norman from going crazy. Since Ock and Sandman shouldn’t know he was the Goblin I would change that so that they just think he’s this scientist that was killed by Spider-Man and they don’t know he’s the Goblin. It wouldn’t be a twist for the audience of course but it would work better for Peter
I don't know if that would fix much considering they would still know he's extremely dangerous person. If anything they should have ahd Peter have person contingencies for each villain before taking to happens apartment.
This movie was a lot of fun. It has big problems with its plot, but it is carried by its fan service, and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. It reveled in its Spider-Man history and I think the performances are good enough and the character interactions are good enough to make this enjoyable. I appreciated how this film seems to be course correcting some things that I didn’t like about the MCU Spider-Man as I have gotten the sense that I had a better take on Homecoming then the filmmakers had. I’m interested in this new direction of Spider-Man, so here’s hoping that they can deliver some good movies in the future. I’d probably put this film in the middle of the Spider-Man films, but the enjoyment factor could raise it for me. I need time away from the hype to see where this finally settles, but as of now I think the middle is a safe bet.
I genuinely don't understand how you can say this is a bad film. Was it the best? Debatable, but for me it's the 3rd best live action SM film behind SM1 & Homecoming. Willem Dafoe phoning it in? I'm sorry, but no. He was clearly having a blast playing Norman & the Green Goblin again. He stole the show amongst the villains. Tom Holland brought it & killed it in this movie. He nailed all of the moments he needed to. Andrew Garfield killed it as well. Almost the show stealer of the 3 Spideys. Tobey finally was able to be funny in the role & not awkward or mostly dramatic. His moment of looking into Tom's eyes when he was about to kill Goblin with the glider, but caught it to stop him was great. And the plot is perfect. Have a Peter who loses everything he has in the world learn from his alternate universe predecessors & their villains. The ultimate tragedy of doing good but losing something unintentionally is very Spider-Man, the performances were great, & the nostalgia bait was done right. Though I do wish they hadn't rushed through Peter's secret being found out in the first 25 minutes & I felt that May's death didn't feel as earned as it could've, the film did a really good job. I only wish it was longer with the deleted scenes we know about reinstated so I could have more of it to enjoy.
I completely understand why so many seem to have difficulties with this video: they delve into a lot of the plot difficulties that make it hard to get invested with Peter's journey here and why they think the story doesn't ultimately work. But I don't think the deserve the kind of scrutiny they're getting here. I know how hard it is to have something that people love and see them have so many issues with it - I have with with Cap's growing disdain for Endgame. But in that spirit, if I don't agree with him on something like that and want to still love something, I either reflect and take their thoughts to heart or just don't watch them. I don't think it's right to pick fights and name names and call it an echo chamber when they could have easily towed the line of everyone else loving this film and yet they didn't. It doesn't mean that they're cynical or jaded or that their standards are any more than they were before, I just think that they're calling it like they see it and that's okay. I think this is touching a nerve for so many because it's giving people so much joy in a time where the pain people are universally going though is immense and seemingly inescapable. Of course people are going to defend it and see it as really important to them and feel upset that people they respect didn't like it. But they talked genuinely about what they liked and didn't care for, and that's all I could ever ask for of these fellows. And if you got joy out of this, then great! I'm super happy for you, and don't let anyone ruin that for you. Engage with the things that make you the happiest and leave the rest :) Happy New Year everyone, and take care of yourselves friends!
Looking at the comments i dont see people picking fights and i wouldnt call it an echo chamber because they did this live where there were people responding in the chat who liked this movie. I dont think the issue is they didnt love the movie like others just that some arguments they give arent good arguments. Im of the view that even if i disagree if i cant at least understand where they are coming from its fine but again some of the arguments these guys are making arent good arguments.
Most people simply disagree with them. It’s normal when people have the minority opinion to face opposition by people with the majority opinion. Not a big deal. They’re all adults who can take this criticism. Haven’t seen any incendiary or hateful comments. The worst that I’ve seen is that Geekvolution is an echo chamber, which is just a bad argument, but a bad argument is not going to hurt Geekvolution. They’ll be fine.
I wish you delved more into what I thought really worked about this movie, which was the character dynamics. I liked MJ and Ned more than I ever have. The villains worked surprisingly well for me, and the 3 Peters chemistry was top notch and hilarious. You spent a lot of time ripping apart the plot with the magic and spells. I get it. It was really messy, but magic is pretty much always messy. If the movie wasn't working for me at all, I'd probably fixate more on that stuff, but I accepted it for what it led to. I really don't think it is a problem that Peter went to strange. In the mind of a 17 year old, you and your friends not getting into your dream college IS the end of the world. I made sense that Peter would act rash in that situation. And about the ending and origin, I never really bought Peter had an Uncle Ben in this universe. I see your disappointment now when I think you were probably just waiting for them to clear it up. My "iron man jr" complaint is less about Stark Tech and more about Peter's motivation in Homecoming and Far From Home has been too focused on Tony. In Civil War, he is trying to impress Tony, in HC, he's trying to impress Tony and in FFH, he is haunted by Tony's "ghost". So to finally see Peter face real consequences and have to continue on his own, sacrificing the love and friendship of MJ and Ned was a big step forward. It is more than just and origin, because Peter has experience being Spider-Man but now he has more of a driving force. Again, I see how you may have watch Civil War and assumed Peter was referring to his origin and just been waiting for one of these movies to specify it, but to the entire series' credit, they never outright committed to it and left the door open to change it.
There does seem to be an uncle ben though since peter references him in what if so im wondering if its some contract issue with sony where they cant name him in the films. And freshman year is suppose to finally give this peters origin.
But peters motivation isn’t just about tony. He also wants to help people because it’s his responsibility. It’s not any different than other versions of. Spider-Man having a motive of making money by selling pictures of Spider-Man and saving the day.
Damn.....was not expecting this. One of the best movie going experience's of my life, favorite Spiderman movie thus far and I'm even okay with Tobey Maguire now. He actually ACTED like Spiderman in this, he was quipy and funny, his talks with the other Peters had genuine charm to them. I guess he just didn't have good material to work with before. I'm okay with the"reset button" as Cap has called it because it's made this Peter more alone than he's ever been before and it's by far the largest set of on screen consequences that any live action Spiderman has had to deal with. The only thing I'm afraid of is that they won't let Peter use any modern tech anymore, people need to accept that modern technology doesn't ruin Spiderman, after all he is a scientist and an inventor. What's the point of him being an inventor if he can't use tech?
I am shocked by how much you guys hated the movie. Not offended mind you, just surprised. You are entitled to your own opinions. The movie lives or dies by the novelty of seeing all three Spidermen together. It's really the kind of movie that falls apart when you think about it too hard. As a pure spectacle, I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed the place they leave Spiderman at the end of the movie. I can see where you're coming from though.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as always but boy this was the toughest video to swallow as of late. I understand it’s unfair to say this but it seems apparent these guys have difficulty just having a joyous experience with a fun movie now, if it’s tied to a property they have so much knowledge and preconceptions going into it. And DJ AND Dan hated it too? No way Eric enjoyed it. Like holy crap, guys. It also seemed a bit disingenuous for cap to start off by saying there’s a “rainbow of opinions” across the board about the film as a way to defend the rant they were about to make. Like, no, the reaction from fans and critics is overwhelmingly positive. It’s not divisive in anyway. There’s plenty of outliers clearly, but the movie is well liked by nearly everyone. Sorry, pointless rant I know, but this video “hurt mah feelings” as cap likes to say.
Basically every big movie has reshoots. The only reason why it has become such a dirty word is because Suicide Squad's reshoots were very publically known and an easy scapegoat for that movie's failure.
Yeah, getting into the editing bay and realizing that certain stuff just doesn’t work or that something extra is needed to get from A to B is literally a thing that’s existed as long as Hollywood itself.
I disagree about this hurting the previous Spider-Man films, I still love HC overall a good discussion though Despite nobody seeming to like anything about it 😜
I'm surprised these fine gentlemen didn't liked it as much. I thought this gets a pass for all the fan service and plot holes because the point was to please the audience after so much real-world crap that it feels good to escape to pandering nostalgia for once. This isn't like BvS where it tries to hammer how smart it think it is, it's a dumb movie that tries to get you back to the theater seats after years of lockdown fatigue and gives you stuff you'd never thought you'd see on film, and for me that's fine.
It’s definitely not a BvS. I certainly had fun watching it. Since Spider-Man is one of my favourite characters I do wish they were smarter about stuff. But I don’t hate it.
As someone who never wanted or needed a live-action Spider-Verse movie or the Raimi nostalgia stroked, I thought this movie pulled off everything I was worried about as best as they could have been and I did ultimately have a good time. The hype of this being "the best Spider-Man movie" is kinda ridicilous, but considering that IMO there hasn't been an all-around "perfect" Spider-Man movie yet, it's does rank decently high. Speaking of, my personal current ranking of Spider-Man movies would be: 1. Spider-Man 2 2. Homecoming 3. Spider-Man 4. No Way Home 5. Far From Home 6. Into the Spider-Verse 7. Spider-Man 3 8. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 9. The Amazing Spider-Man Note! Only the bottom three I would call bad movies and, even then, only the bottom two I don't want to ever rewatch again.
Yeah I thought Connor was reviewing the movie I was worried that we would get rather than what it was. The plot was certainly convoluted and there was real silly contrivances, but I felt the character dynamics worked really well and I was thoroughly entertianed.
I agree. For me my ranking would be Homecoming 2 1 Far From Home No Way Home Amazing 1 Spider-Man 3 Amazing 2 I’m not sure about Amazing 1 right now. I tried to rewatch it recently and had to turn it off.
Based off of my last watch of the films, which has been a while, my ranking would be: 1. Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse 2. Spider-Man: Homecoming 3. Spider-Man 2 4. Spider-Man 5. The Amazing Spider-Man 6. Spider-Man: No Way Home 7. Spider-Man: Far From Home 8. Spider-Man 3 9. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 If we included the Venom movies then it would be the same list, but Venom is 10 and Venom: Let There Be Carnage is 11.
@@Ren_Davis0531 I'm really not into including animated films in the ranking. They really should always be separate. There are many reasons for this, but a big one is that animation has some big advantages in terms of what the audience will accept. For example, a live action movie could NEVER has a character as silly as Spider-Ham unless is was a straight up comedy or a post credits gag. There is also freedom to get wackier and more stylized without ramifications. That's not a problem with animation, but I just think it should be judged separately.
30:42 I don't think either peter or strange knew the spell could damage the universe. Peter because he knew almost nothing about the spell before strange started, and strange thought he could contain the spell(which he technically did; with it only going wrong again because of peter). Given what happened in endgame, it would make sense for Peter to think going to someone for hel fixing his mistake would turn out well
I can't help but think we needed a 'conversation' between Dr Strange and Aunt May, considering Peter was all for doing what Strange wanted til May talked him into saving the villains instead. Also when Peter tries to say Nick Fury can back him up about the Mysterio thing, why does the clean up agent reveal he's been in space this whole time? Did Talos not tell them what happened before he left? Does the agent or any of them not know he was hanging around Spiderman disguised as Nick Fury?
Im starting to think that connor has a bad influence on cap. I think cap is being seduced to the cynicism side by connor lol. Ok on a serious note; i get it people have opinions. It just seems like its super hard to please connor and at times he can be unpleasant to listen to. I think thats because a lot of the time connor and cap agree on something but they dont have anyone on stream with them to counterpoint and defend the film they're dogging on and it gets echo chambery. Like their ghostbusters review was so unpleasant to sit through because it was an hour of them just ripping on a movie without any counterarguments to challenge them.
This seems to be the default reaction everytime Cap goes against the grain on a thing. Before it would've been Steve or Eric being a bad influence, and now it's Conner I guess (despite him having been around as long, if to a lesser degree thanks to those two having been the previous co-pilots). I suppose there's always an extra degree of scrutiny whenever Cap is accompanied by others, which is unfortunate but not surprising.
@@HunterTechTen I think for a lot of people it’s hard to tell what’s the inevitable influence of working with a collaborator and what’s naturally evolving opinions and tastes. The two do overlap a lot.
I would say Eric and Capt balanced each other out. They often challenged each other. But yeah the cynicism is real. Even tho I know some of the faults are valid.
@@ThePonderer I've been around here long enough (plus knowing a particular Patreon thing that I recall) to get the impression that it's just a generation disconnect between Cap and much of the viewers, since a lot of his opinions I wouldn't think came from any external influence. Then again, so much has happened through the years that it's hard to remember for sure on how Cap might've changed through the years.
They couldn't bring back Saliva and Nickelback to re-sing HERO. C'mon (sigh) Just like the John Ottman's score for Xmen 2, bring back Nickelback/Saliva to sing Hero. Superhero movies back then had ROCK music. Spiderman NWH action cherography/sequences was fun. The plot and story was meh. Doctor Strange was right, Peter could've solved all of his problems going to college by making a phone call🤷♂️🤷♀️🤷♂️🤷♀️🤷♂️
Really refreshing to see criticism for this. Personally I just don’t like most of these MCU films in general. I probably enjoyed this one the best of the Holland trilogy for the surface level nostalgia reasons. They just lack any sort of real distinct direction and are so visually flat they might as well just be commercials. The only MCU film that actually has any interesting thought put into its compositions and direction is Guardians Vol 2 surprisingly enough. Totally disagree with you guys about the Raimi films though, they’re infinitely better directed and written than any of these. Yes even 3 is.
Cap, your point about this being a fanboy convention is spot on. It felt like watching the Friends or Harry Potter reunion loosely strung together by a story that makes no sense. This is by far my least favorite Spider-Man film ever, and it killed all interest I have in the MCU moving forward. I am tired of Marvel setting plot elements up only to have them culminate in a self reverential meta-reunion movie. If any other studio did that, people would riot. Imagine if Return of the King was just Frodo and Gandalf traveling to all of the prior moments in Two Towers and Fellowship that people loved? It would be embarrassing, and everyone would have hated it because that isn't a story. It's just nostalgia baiting. It's the laziest and cheapest way to end a story in my opinion. That was one of the reasons why I couldn't stand Endgame, and this was even worse. Andrew Garfield's scenes were the only things I kind of enjoyed. I could not believe that they ruined the mythology of Doctor Strange in the MCU by making Ned, a child with "magic blood" from his cute grandma, able to open portals into other dimensions. Doctor Strange had to train for years with the Ancient One to even make sparks with a sling ring. The lack of Uncle Ben is a gigantic issue with Peter's motivation. Marvel to me, is creatively bankrupt and I won't see any more of their films for the foreseeable future. More power to those who enjoyed the movie, I wish I had the same reaction.
"The lack of Uncle Ben is a gigantic issue with Peter's motivation." People like you are literally why we're about to see Thomas and Martha shot again for the 400th time later this year. Seriously Ben's a cheap plot device to get Peter to become Spider-Man. "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you" - Peter Parker (the hidden meaning: Uncle Ben is redundant)
@@kieroncampion120 Your horrible take on Uncle Ben tells me that you either have never read a Spider-Man comic, seen a Spider-Man movie outside of the MCU, or any other other media version of the character, or weren’t paying attention. I’m not going to argue with you as to whether the character’s primary motivation to be a superhero is important. You can go on pretending that Spider-Man’s origin isn’t one of the best and most important stories to the character because you militantly like a movie where Spider-Man fights nostalgia cartoons, but I will not. Good day sir.
I loved how this movie on a meta-level commented on how bad the two TASM movies were, but was subtle enough about it for the fans of those movies not notice and get mad.
I don’t think the movie does that at all. I think on some level the film is…let’s say “lovingly critical” of *every* preceding Spider-Man movie, but I don’t think it’s “subtly shading the TASM movies as bad films” at all. It lightly ribs on what many feel didn’t work about those movies (lizard’s motivation, etc) but at the same time it takes the strengths and potential of those films (the pathos inherent to Max despite his goofiness, Garfield’s performance and characterization, the death of Gwen) and treats them with reverence. No part of me feels like this movie is condemning those ones.
@@ThePonderer I mean, I don't remember them making fun of the first two Raimi movies at all (even calling Goblin "Green Elf" is pretty generic joke about his appearence, which you could make about almost any version of the character, rather than a reference to fans calling him Power Ranger or the like), and even the joke about Sandman's origin is more about how similar Electro's origin is to his, rather than any kind of jab at it in of itself. Meanwhile, the Lizard is almost a goofy comic-relief, who is easily defeated by Strange off-screen, is given zero character depth (even with Sandman they make one reference to his daughter) and whose plan in TASM1 is made fun of, they take a jab at the silliness of Electro's origin at least twice, Garfield kinda loses his brief "fight" with Tobey, Tobey and Tom fighting aliens is treated as cool, while Garfield fighting "a Russian in a Rhino machine" is a comedic punchline, he calls himself the lamest Spider-Man, his codename in the final fight is "Peter 3" and they even reference how everyone wanted Donald Glover to play Spider-Man over him in TASM1 (which, I acknowledge, was also a reference to Miles, but it can work both ways). Again, all of these things were subtle and spread out enough that it didn't come accros as them directly pointing and laughing at those movies out in the open or anything like that, and they even throw a bone or two for those movies (Gwen's death), but it's pretty clear which previous Spider-Man movies the writers and John Watts (maybe even Feige) preferred.
@@SpedeVesku also when ned talked about wanting to see the "real" peter parker after bringing in garfield. but he does get a redemption moment where he manages to save mj.
Not really spedevesku. They have the " I'm somewhat of scientists myself" meme, Tobey is called a cool youth pastor, and lizard loosing doctor strange isn't really knock against Connors. It felt like each movie was made fun of based on their public reputation.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Is repeating a line that got memetic in real-life making fun of it? Is not like every Star Wars media where character says "I got a bad feeling about this" is trying to mock New Hope. Ok, that's one joke at Tobey's expense and even then it's only making fun of how Tobey looks now rather than any way mocking the Raimi movies themselves. Strange defeating the Lizard in of itself is not a big deal, but when put next to all the other jabs at TASM movies, a pattern starts to form.
I agree with a lot your all saying but at the same time you guys were way to negative, the film has bad choices and yes the story is a bit stupid and also they make Peter Parker dumb. But you guys literally nit picked the most pointless stuff and in general it is just a movie. Feel like you guys need to loosen up a little bit but it’s all opinions and all subjective.
I think you all missed some key things. Well let me not say missed but wouldn’t accept things the movie showed you 1.) Peter is a kid, despite his experiences he’s still a kid, and the choice he’s given isn’t just let these people return or save them. Their return meant their death. 2.) A three film origin isn’t a bad thought it’s a different approach to a story we’ve seen time and time over again. It’s different which it needs to be
Sure, a three film origin isn’t a bad idea. However this “origin” doesn’t make much sense as an origin. Because he already knew that “with great power there must also come great responsibility” he basically paraphrases it in civil war and he’s already the hero Spider-Man. So what is this trilogy the origin of? It’s just regular character development he matures. Every Spider-Man that starts out as a teenager does that.
@@TheDayGhost No it is not. "With great power there must also come great responsibility" is the most important part to the character. In Christopher Reeve Superman, Jonathan Kent's dies. However, in the animated series, Jonathan Kent is alive. There is more than one source material on Spiderman.
Wong said mind erasong is unethical in She Hulk. I wonder if thats the people behind the MCU are saying, what Strange and Peter did was wrong and its gonna come back to bite them. Or its what the She Hulk writers think of the matter. Zendaya is gonna be in the fourth film and regain her memory, so i have to ask why didnt they go with the original ending Austin described if it was written or shot.
Well fellas, you guys are definitely in the minority. The vast majority of critics and audience loved this movie. This movie has a 94% on the rotten tomatoes meter from 363 reviews. An audience score of 98% from verified watchers on rotten tomatoes. That’s The beauty of the subjectivity of film, I’m not trying to make any excuses why you didn’t like it. I respect your opinions.
@@TheDayGhost I didn't think you missed anything as if you were incorrect. I meant that a lot of time was spent on the spell, the final 15 minutes, the Aunt May scenes, and the Vilnians. I was hoping to hear what you thought of Mj and Ned's dynamic, a bit more on the 3 Spider-men clashing, the rooftop scene with he 3 Peters. Just more character talk. I actually felt that the character dynamics were what made the movie for me. I didn't disagree with much of what you guys disliked about the movie, but I felt like the good outweighed the bad and you didn't talk much about the stuff I thought worked best. That isn't to say you liked the stuff I did. Perhaps you didn't. Connor in particular seemed to dislike a lot of the Villain and 3 Spider-men conversations. Maybe if there was more of a moderator who had some popular talking points it would make it more focused idk.
How is this a more satisfying ending for the other two Peters and not the main character? Also why does he stay Spider-Man at the end when he's lost everyone? He needs them to motivate him!
Glad it wasn't just me had an infuriating viewing experience in the cinema with this. Not because I didn't like the movie but because of the noise and talking of everyone else in the theatre. SHUT UP! So annoying.
I'm about 26 minutes in, and I will say this: I kinda already agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. As someone who did enjoy this movie, it does have flaws, and I don't like how many people (especially in this comment section) are basically saying "it's fan service, just shut your brain off and stare at the pretty lights for 2 hours and marvel at the novelty of all these separate franchises being brought together". There were some major issues I noticed even in my first viewing. The way Strange and Peter's conversation topic in the mirror dimension shifts from being about the villain's possibly dying to possibly curing the villains is one of the most contrived things I've ever seen in a movie, ever. Also, it makes absolutely no sense how curing them would do f*cking anything to save them. How does (essentially) killing the Goblin persona magically stop the glider from hitting him? How does giving Otto control of his tentacles again shut down his machine (I can't remember it's name and quite honestly I'm not sure the movie does either)? And if they'd just be sent back to their respective universes, just in the present anyway, then they wouldn't die. Honestly, this problem could've been fixed so easily. Just have Strange explain to Peter that they'll be sent back to their universes in the present day, and then Peter can't live with that as that would just catch their universes respective Spider-Men off guard, and he can't live with that. That'd also fix the problem of the multiverse stuff making absolutely no sense, which is my other biggest gripe with the movie. Also, does time not pass at all in these other universes. (I'm just going to refer to the Spidey's by their universe designations from here on out to avoid confusion). Did 96283 have no other adventures during the *17* year gap between the events of Spider Man 3 and No Way Home? Why not? How is Sandman's daughter still alive? I seem to remember her being deathly ill and that being the whole reason we were expected to sympathize with Sandman in Spider Man 3. What happened to 120703's Mary Jane? I know what happened. The audience didn't see it, so it never happened. Why didn't 120703 get a scene at the end talking to Doc Conners? I seem to remember them having a pseudo father-son relationship. Same thing with 96283 and Osborn. Also weird that 96283 doesn't mention his universe's Conners. I get them not mentioning the Lizard incident (I mean, I don't, but at least it's consistent with pretending that that never happened), but I seem to remember Conners being a fairly important character in Spider Man 2 and 3. And, again, same thing with 120703 and his Goblin. Also, just as a nitpick, why didn't 120703 call Electro "Sparkles" during their fight.
@@R.J.Godzilla81 it was pretty brutal. It’s funny because there was a guy a few rows in front of me who would go on his phone every 20 minutes and I want even annoyed by that because all my attention was on Mr Butts to the right of me
@@TheDayGhost it’s kinda like when you fall and hurt yourself, your brain is focused on the thing that’s must damaged, and thus you don’t realize just how hurt you really are, that is until the main damage heals, and you start getting pain in multiple other places that you didn’t even know you hurt.
I loved this movie. It's full of plot holes and has some weak dialogue. I'm glad they didn't focus on jk simmons being in 2 shows. I'm glad they didn't focus things like tobey knows dr connors, and andrew knows norman osborn. I think it would have been interesting to have tobey be married and have a kid with superpowers about tom hollands age. I've always considered andrew the scifi spiderman, so I would have had some crazy scifi element with andrew.
I can buy Connor not liking this movie for its contrivances and conveniences, but he really liked Endgame and THIS is the WORST MCU movie. The WORST? In terms of needless cameos, unnecessary scenes, weird internal logic, and characters acting out of character, I think Endgame is actually quite a bit worse than this movie.
Yeah I agree, but Endgame probably speaks more to him as a fan. I don’t get the sense Connor is necessarily a big Spider-Man fan whereas Endgame MCU fanservice probably just hit him more as a fan despite that Endgame is arguably a worse offender of all of Connor’s criticisms. It is what it is.
@@TheDayGhost That’s fair. You can argue that Endgame is more narratively sound relative to No Way Home. Although it does spin its wheels more and doesn’t really have much to say after the first act other than fanservice.
@@Ren_Davis0531 yeah and what I like about Endgame is how they treat Iron Man and Cap. I don’t like their Thor or Hulk. My eyes also gloss over during the 40 minute army climaxes of a lot of these team up movies as well honestly and Endgame might be my least favourite Avengers climax. It’s that or Ultron but I really don’t like the Ultron movie in general.
@@TheDayGhost I actually thought No Way Home was relatively subdued for it's climax which I appreciated. I was worried when Goblin showed up it was going to go into another big fight scene in the air, but it was resolved within a few minutes on the ground. The thing is, Connor doesn't seem easily manipulated by fan service and does get very bothered by poor story structure for the sake of fan service and applause moments. I think endgame is more guilty of that kind of thing as this movie and I can find a direct parallels for just about every complaint Connor makes, especially when it comes to quoting old lines or familiar situations.
I know there’s been lots of fanboy hyperbole surrounding this movie but this felt like it went way too far the other way… WORST mcu movie? _Reeeeeally?_
If Goblin wanted to kill May in the Raimi movies he easily could have. He just simply didn’t. He was toying with Peter before really settling in for the kill.
Do you think what was a wasted opportunity was is by bringing in the Scorpion back in Homecoming or Topher Grace’s Venom the sixth and final member of the sinister six instead we got the fearsome five, but you think Peter shouldn’t trust or listen to anyone after putting his trust in Mysterio so why he should even care about the villains because he doesn’t know them and let Strange do his job and I feel like this movie should have been a 2 parter just like Infinity War and Endgame because we should have stick with the fugitive subplot and the sinister six for the first part and then the Spider verse.
If people had problems with the villains bringing in more weren't going to help, there was no way this was going to be a two parter(especially with how hard this was to keep leeks for the film under control), and whether or not Peter should save these villains is the entire conflict of the second act.
@@fightingmedialounge519 also I forgot to mention that asking Dr Strange to make people forget just to get who are close into college, don’t get me wrong but college is not a solution like Mark Zuckerberg didn’t go to college and he turned out okay.
@@srstriker6420 That's a more reasonable criticism. Although it was less about college in particular and more about him wanting friends to not be dragged down by his superhero person.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Exactly. Peter feels guilty for negatively affecting her friends lives. However, I would’ve done preferred that his friends loved ones lives be in jeopardy, like wants to do the spell because they’re getting death threats or something.
I wouldn’t say this movie is the worst MCU movie. But I dare say that this was the worst Spider-Man movie… ever 1. The whole “no way home” thing was left unclear the entire time because no matter what there was always a way out. First, Murdock. Then, Doctor Strange. Last, Andrew and Tobey. This movie should’ve been called “Every Way Home”. 2. There were too many villains. For years I’ve heard the complaint that one of Spider-Man 3’s biggest problems was having 3 villains. No Way Home tried to do 5 and they miserably failed. Write Sandman and Lizard out of the movie and you’d barely affect the plot. That tells you they had too many villains 3. The whole repercussions of his identity getting revealed make no sense. How is he allowed to go to school, much less walk the streets??? “There is still a court of public opinion”… yeah that only lasted about 5 minutes and suddenly he’s able to go out without people screaming at him 4. As great as Tobey and Andrew are, they outshined Tom. That was unnecessary. Tom fought Thanos. He shouldn’t need help fighting 5 human-based villains. 5. Electro knowing Spider-Man’s identity through absorbing data is utter bullshit. Like Tobey and Andrew said, they DON’T GO AROUND ADVERTISING THEIR IDENTITIES 6. I could honestly forgive all of these shortcomings if they had 1 thing: the Sinister Six. The REAL Sinister Six. Venom getting drunk in a bar in Mexico doesn’t count. I wanted the Sinister Six in this movie. That was literally all I was asking for. But Marvel didn’t deliver. I’m glad I’m not the only one who disliked No Way Home. Thank you for this review
I couldn't disagree more about Dafoe "phoning in" his performance. He literally insisted on doing most of his own stunts. Was he as good as he was in Sam Raimi's original Spider-man movie? That's hard to say, since he obviously had a lot more screen time in that movie. His performance in this one was certainly less over the top, but I found him a lot more threatening in this one. I also thought him and Tom Holland both knocked their final fight scene out of the park, not just as an action scene, but also dramatically. I legitimately thought they both gave great performances, especially Tom Holland.
Yeah, really don't understand where Cap is coming from when saying that.
Agreed. I found that a ridiculous assertion personally, he was fantastic in this.
1:34:20 Watching this back, Sorry but Connor, for an astute moviegoer, I don't know how you read the scene this way. Peter goes in prepared to make good on his promise to MJ and Ned, only to see they are happy and excited to being going to MIT, free from the stress and baggage that comes with being friends with Spider-Man. Even after this, Peter is going to explain himself and then sees MJ's injury and realizes he is putting his friends in danger by coming back into their lives and it was only being in the outsiders perspective that allowed him to realize this.
I'm sorry but I don't think the scene could have been more clear. Peter wasn't unable to communicate, he was conflicted. I saw this scene as a perfect example of a Spider-Man self sacrifice.
And Cap, he doesn't have to TELL us his motivation. Everything was communicated with his face seeing ned and MJ happy, his concern with MJ's injury, holding back tears as he says goodbye and puts he note away.
I completely agree about the ending. I don't see how Peter letting go of Ned and MJ to keep them safe is character regression. That felt pretty classic Spider-man to me.
With no offence to the man, but I have noticed that Cap sometimes has trouble with visual story-telling and needs everything spelled out or otherwise it "isn't made clear enough"
@@SpedeVesku He’s a comicbook guy at heart so maybe he’s just too used to thought bubbles over everyone’s heads, spelling out exactly what they’re thinking.
@@SpedeVesku Exactly right.
@@SpedeVesku he explained himself that he knew what that scene was supposed to be but his point was how it played off like he said; like he just got cold feet to him, and I kind of agree
Regarding the whole SNL talk, I think there is naturally going to be some degree of surreal watching 3 generations of Spider-Man characters talking to each other on screen. I think they did a great job of not just having characters pop in and say catharses for the most part. The chemistry worked and the characters had narrative purpose.
I don't know what Dafoe Captain Logan watched. I didn't think it was Oscar worthy, but I thought he was really giving it his all and bringing a real gravitas to Goblin.
I did feel the surrealness of seeing the 3 spider-man onscreen together. Also the fact dafoe wanted to his own stunts and not come back just for a cameo tells how commited dafoe was. Also how else did he expect the 3 spider-men and villians interactions to be.
The idea that all that’s informing the ending is the big business side of things makes not a lock of sense to me. It’s so clearly the only way this story could’ve ended given Peter’s character arc and decisions throughout.
Consequences in Spider-Man: Homecoming
Spider-Man losing the Stark internship (whether you like Stark or not is irrelevant) due to putting everyone's life in danger on the ferry. Parker learning that he needs to take down Vulture because what he's doing is dangerous to the people of New York and not because he wants to impress or join the superhero's he looks up to. He also ruins his relationship with Liz after making the hard choice to do what's right over what's easy.
Consequences in Spider-Man: Far From Home
Parker giving up the power bestowed on him by hero's who came before due to feeling like a poor replacement for said hero's before realising the truth that being Spider-Man is enough. Mysterio, a man who can manipulate the truth (truth being the main theme Spider-Man: Far From Home), is literally a consequence for Peter's insecurities and it takes the ENTIRE MOVIE for him to overcome said consequences.
If you think there are no consequences try watching them again and paying attention.
Yeah what I love about Homecoming is that it’s entirely built around Peter’s actions and consequences. Also I like that all 3 of these movies end with either Peter or Spider-Man in a good place and the other being in a bad place. That’s classic Spider-Man.
Cap isn't a consistent reviewer. He just likes what he likes and it's obvious when you look at his different opinions of movies. He complained that in The Dark Knight the theme with the movie is spelled out with exposition at the end. But if a movie uses symbolism, nuance or just indirect exposition he complains that he doesn't understand it and it's not explained and oftentimes what he claims he doesn't understand is obvious if you just watch the movie actively instead of passively. And if you're reviewer for a living you should be watching every movie actively.
It was almost refreshing to hear someone not fawn all over this movie, but this stream NEEDED someone defending the film. I think there is too much good stuff in the film that wasn't discussed because so much time was spent complaining about the negative aspects. Connor especially, I would have liked to see challenged because he was really laying into this films. WORST MCU films, really. Really?
Another issue I have with this conversation is you guys seem to REALLY fixate on certain issues. I barely disagreed with some of the problems you points out, but for me it is about how big of a deal it is. Was it stupid for Peter to go to Strange to solve his dilemma? Yes. Should he have known better? yep. Would screwing you and your friends out of getting into MIT be the feel like for a 17 year old, perhaps even more than someone potentially being arrested? YES!
Magic is always convoluted. Look no further than the beloved Harry Potter movies which have a spell for everything that creates massive problems and questions. To me, the question is whether or not the payoff is worth it. That doesn't mean you can't complain about the magic and its logic, but I don't think it was stupid enough to ignore the rest of the movie or anything.
If there's a "rainbow of opinions" on this movie, can we all agree it's 98% whatever the color is for "I loved this movie?"
This is a good video but there are some errors in some points being raised. One thing I noticed is when one of you guys point out Dafoe Goblin tricked Peter into helping him when in reality Norman Osborn was genuine in his plea for help, and he wasn’t pulling a rouse. That was good Norman that had taken control of his body again.
Yeah I meant to go into that more. My issue with that is that Peter knows Norman has an alternate identity, he and May make it clear, and Peter has nothing in place to stop Norman from going crazy. Since Ock and Sandman shouldn’t know he was the Goblin I would change that so that they just think he’s this scientist that was killed by Spider-Man and they don’t know he’s the Goblin. It wouldn’t be a twist for the audience of course but it would work better for Peter
@@TheDayGhost yeah especially having a bad experience trusting someone who revealed his name to the world
I don't know if that would fix much considering they would still know he's extremely dangerous person. If anything they should have ahd Peter have person contingencies for each villain before taking to happens apartment.
Here’s a spoiler for the comments section: Most of the comments section is going to vehemently disagree with the opinions expressed on this video.
I disagree with this
@@TheDayGhost I disagree with this disagreement. I think.
Agreed
@@ThePonderer I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement sir.
Surtur is literally talking about the end of Thor: Ragnarok in the opening scene. Making it up as they go along?
This movie was a lot of fun. It has big problems with its plot, but it is carried by its fan service, and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. It reveled in its Spider-Man history and I think the performances are good enough and the character interactions are good enough to make this enjoyable. I appreciated how this film seems to be course correcting some things that I didn’t like about the MCU Spider-Man as I have gotten the sense that I had a better take on Homecoming then the filmmakers had.
I’m interested in this new direction of Spider-Man, so here’s hoping that they can deliver some good movies in the future. I’d probably put this film in the middle of the Spider-Man films, but the enjoyment factor could raise it for me. I need time away from the hype to see where this finally settles, but as of now I think the middle is a safe bet.
I genuinely don't understand how you can say this is a bad film. Was it the best? Debatable, but for me it's the 3rd best live action SM film behind SM1 & Homecoming.
Willem Dafoe phoning it in? I'm sorry, but no. He was clearly having a blast playing Norman & the Green Goblin again. He stole the show amongst the villains.
Tom Holland brought it & killed it in this movie. He nailed all of the moments he needed to.
Andrew Garfield killed it as well. Almost the show stealer of the 3 Spideys.
Tobey finally was able to be funny in the role & not awkward or mostly dramatic. His moment of looking into Tom's eyes when he was about to kill Goblin with the glider, but caught it to stop him was great.
And the plot is perfect. Have a Peter who loses everything he has in the world learn from his alternate universe predecessors & their villains. The ultimate tragedy of doing good but losing something unintentionally is very Spider-Man, the performances were great, & the nostalgia bait was done right. Though I do wish they hadn't rushed through Peter's secret being found out in the first 25 minutes & I felt that May's death didn't feel as earned as it could've, the film did a really good job. I only wish it was longer with the deleted scenes we know about reinstated so I could have more of it to enjoy.
This is one of the most negative things I've ever heard, gad to stop. The movie had flaws but god damn.
Welcome to geekvolution
@@redkalel yeah they think contrarian takes make them sound intelligent at times
I had the same reaction with Cap and Eric's review on Bumblebee.
Dafoe, Molina and Foxx rocked in this. The only ones who phoned it in (literally) were Church and Ifans.
I can’t blame them for phoning it in since they literally were never on set.
@@alexh4319 that's what I was getting at.
I completely understand why so many seem to have difficulties with this video: they delve into a lot of the plot difficulties that make it hard to get invested with Peter's journey here and why they think the story doesn't ultimately work. But I don't think the deserve the kind of scrutiny they're getting here. I know how hard it is to have something that people love and see them have so many issues with it - I have with with Cap's growing disdain for Endgame. But in that spirit, if I don't agree with him on something like that and want to still love something, I either reflect and take their thoughts to heart or just don't watch them.
I don't think it's right to pick fights and name names and call it an echo chamber when they could have easily towed the line of everyone else loving this film and yet they didn't. It doesn't mean that they're cynical or jaded or that their standards are any more than they were before, I just think that they're calling it like they see it and that's okay.
I think this is touching a nerve for so many because it's giving people so much joy in a time where the pain people are universally going though is immense and seemingly inescapable. Of course people are going to defend it and see it as really important to them and feel upset that people they respect didn't like it. But they talked genuinely about what they liked and didn't care for, and that's all I could ever ask for of these fellows. And if you got joy out of this, then great! I'm super happy for you, and don't let anyone ruin that for you. Engage with the things that make you the happiest and leave the rest :) Happy New Year everyone, and take care of yourselves friends!
Looking at the comments i dont see people picking fights and i wouldnt call it an echo chamber because they did this live where there were people responding in the chat who liked this movie. I dont think the issue is they didnt love the movie like others just that some arguments they give arent good arguments. Im of the view that even if i disagree if i cant at least understand where they are coming from its fine but again some of the arguments these guys are making arent good arguments.
I also think the vitriol comes from the fact that this movie does involve several characters from peoples childhood.
Most people simply disagree with them. It’s normal when people have the minority opinion to face opposition by people with the majority opinion. Not a big deal. They’re all adults who can take this criticism. Haven’t seen any incendiary or hateful comments. The worst that I’ve seen is that Geekvolution is an echo chamber, which is just a bad argument, but a bad argument is not going to hurt Geekvolution. They’ll be fine.
I wish you delved more into what I thought really worked about this movie, which was the character dynamics. I liked MJ and Ned more than I ever have. The villains worked surprisingly well for me, and the 3 Peters chemistry was top notch and hilarious.
You spent a lot of time ripping apart the plot with the magic and spells. I get it. It was really messy, but magic is pretty much always messy. If the movie wasn't working for me at all, I'd probably fixate more on that stuff, but I accepted it for what it led to.
I really don't think it is a problem that Peter went to strange. In the mind of a 17 year old, you and your friends not getting into your dream college IS the end of the world. I made sense that Peter would act rash in that situation.
And about the ending and origin, I never really bought Peter had an Uncle Ben in this universe. I see your disappointment now when I think you were probably just waiting for them to clear it up. My "iron man jr" complaint is less about Stark Tech and more about Peter's motivation in Homecoming and Far From Home has been too focused on Tony. In Civil War, he is trying to impress Tony, in HC, he's trying to impress Tony and in FFH, he is haunted by Tony's "ghost". So to finally see Peter face real consequences and have to continue on his own, sacrificing the love and friendship of MJ and Ned was a big step forward. It is more than just and origin, because Peter has experience being Spider-Man but now he has more of a driving force.
Again, I see how you may have watch Civil War and assumed Peter was referring to his origin and just been waiting for one of these movies to specify it, but to the entire series' credit, they never outright committed to it and left the door open to change it.
There does seem to be an uncle ben though since peter references him in what if so im wondering if its some contract issue with sony where they cant name him in the films. And freshman year is suppose to finally give this peters origin.
Ripping apart is what they do with focusing on negative aspects
But peters motivation isn’t just about tony. He also wants to help people because it’s his responsibility. It’s not any different than other versions of. Spider-Man having a motive of making money by selling pictures of Spider-Man and saving the day.
Damn.....was not expecting this.
One of the best movie going experience's of my life, favorite Spiderman movie thus far and I'm even okay with Tobey Maguire now. He actually ACTED like Spiderman in this, he was quipy and funny, his talks with the other Peters had genuine charm to them. I guess he just didn't have good material to work with before.
I'm okay with the"reset button" as Cap has called it because it's made this Peter more alone than he's ever been before and it's by far the largest set of on screen consequences that any live action Spiderman has had to deal with. The only thing I'm afraid of is that they won't let Peter use any modern tech anymore, people need to accept that modern technology doesn't ruin Spiderman, after all he is a scientist and an inventor. What's the point of him being an inventor if he can't use tech?
I am shocked by how much you guys hated the movie. Not offended mind you, just surprised. You are entitled to your own opinions. The movie lives or dies by the novelty of seeing all three Spidermen together. It's really the kind of movie that falls apart when you think about it too hard. As a pure spectacle, I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed the place they leave Spiderman at the end of the movie. I can see where you're coming from though.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as always but boy this was the toughest video to swallow as of late. I understand it’s unfair to say this but it seems apparent these guys have difficulty just having a joyous experience with a fun movie now, if it’s tied to a property they have so much knowledge and preconceptions going into it. And DJ AND Dan hated it too? No way Eric enjoyed it. Like holy crap, guys.
It also seemed a bit disingenuous for cap to start off by saying there’s a “rainbow of opinions” across the board about the film as a way to defend the rant they were about to make. Like, no, the reaction from fans and critics is overwhelmingly positive. It’s not divisive in anyway. There’s plenty of outliers clearly, but the movie is well liked by nearly everyone.
Sorry, pointless rant I know, but this video “hurt mah feelings” as cap likes to say.
I can only imagine Eric slamming it like crazy
Not a lot of talk about the good parts and these guys needed another rewatch to understand the film better
Every single MCU movie had reshoots.
Basically every big movie has reshoots. The only reason why it has become such a dirty word is because Suicide Squad's reshoots were very publically known and an easy scapegoat for that movie's failure.
Yeah, getting into the editing bay and realizing that certain stuff just doesn’t work or that something extra is needed to get from A to B is literally a thing that’s existed as long as Hollywood itself.
I disagree about this hurting the previous Spider-Man films, I still love HC
overall a good discussion though
Despite nobody seeming to like anything about it 😜
I'm surprised these fine gentlemen didn't liked it as much. I thought this gets a pass for all the fan service and plot holes because the point was to please the audience after so much real-world crap that it feels good to escape to pandering nostalgia for once. This isn't like BvS where it tries to hammer how smart it think it is, it's a dumb movie that tries to get you back to the theater seats after years of lockdown fatigue and gives you stuff you'd never thought you'd see on film, and for me that's fine.
It’s definitely not a BvS. I certainly had fun watching it. Since Spider-Man is one of my favourite characters I do wish they were smarter about stuff. But I don’t hate it.
3:00:48 apparently they did consult with webb and raimi on how to handle their characters.
As someone who never wanted or needed a live-action Spider-Verse movie or the Raimi nostalgia stroked, I thought this movie pulled off everything I was worried about as best as they could have been and I did ultimately have a good time. The hype of this being "the best Spider-Man movie" is kinda ridicilous, but considering that IMO there hasn't been an all-around "perfect" Spider-Man movie yet, it's does rank decently high.
Speaking of, my personal current ranking of Spider-Man movies would be:
1. Spider-Man 2
2. Homecoming
3. Spider-Man
4. No Way Home
5. Far From Home
6. Into the Spider-Verse
7. Spider-Man 3
8. The Amazing Spider-Man 2
9. The Amazing Spider-Man
Note! Only the bottom three I would call bad movies and, even then, only the bottom two I don't want to ever rewatch again.
Yeah I thought Connor was reviewing the movie I was worried that we would get rather than what it was. The plot was certainly convoluted and there was real silly contrivances, but I felt the character dynamics worked really well and I was thoroughly entertianed.
I agree. For me my ranking would be
Homecoming
2
1
Far From Home
No Way Home
Amazing 1
Spider-Man 3
Amazing 2
I’m not sure about Amazing 1 right now. I tried to rewatch it recently and had to turn it off.
@@TheDayGhost I tried to watch Spider-Man (02) again recently and had to turn it off.
Based off of my last watch of the films, which has been a while, my ranking would be:
1. Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse
2. Spider-Man: Homecoming
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Spider-Man
5. The Amazing Spider-Man
6. Spider-Man: No Way Home
7. Spider-Man: Far From Home
8. Spider-Man 3
9. The Amazing Spider-Man 2
If we included the Venom movies then it would be the same list, but Venom is 10 and Venom: Let There Be Carnage is 11.
@@Ren_Davis0531 I'm really not into including animated films in the ranking. They really should always be separate. There are many reasons for this, but a big one is that animation has some big advantages in terms of what the audience will accept. For example, a live action movie could NEVER has a character as silly as Spider-Ham unless is was a straight up comedy or a post credits gag. There is also freedom to get wackier and more stylized without ramifications. That's not a problem with animation, but I just think it should be judged separately.
Oh, yeah, I was pissed at the end when it didn't have Uncle Ben's name on the tombstone.
So it begins
30:42 I don't think either peter or strange knew the spell could damage the universe. Peter because he knew almost nothing about the spell before strange started, and strange thought he could contain the spell(which he technically did; with it only going wrong again because of peter). Given what happened in endgame, it would make sense for Peter to think going to someone for hel fixing his mistake would turn out well
I can't help but think we needed a 'conversation' between Dr Strange and Aunt May, considering Peter was all for doing what Strange wanted til May talked him into saving the villains instead.
Also when Peter tries to say Nick Fury can back him up about the Mysterio thing, why does the clean up agent reveal he's been in space this whole time? Did Talos not tell them what happened before he left? Does the agent or any of them not know he was hanging around Spiderman disguised as Nick Fury?
Im starting to think that connor has a bad influence on cap. I think cap is being seduced to the cynicism side by connor lol. Ok on a serious note; i get it people have opinions. It just seems like its super hard to please connor and at times he can be unpleasant to listen to. I think thats because a lot of the time connor and cap agree on something but they dont have anyone on stream with them to counterpoint and defend the film they're dogging on and it gets echo chambery. Like their ghostbusters review was so unpleasant to sit through because it was an hour of them just ripping on a movie without any counterarguments to challenge them.
Ngl and I hope zero offense is taken by this, but I think Connor has made these less fun to listen to.
This seems to be the default reaction everytime Cap goes against the grain on a thing. Before it would've been Steve or Eric being a bad influence, and now it's Conner I guess (despite him having been around as long, if to a lesser degree thanks to those two having been the previous co-pilots). I suppose there's always an extra degree of scrutiny whenever Cap is accompanied by others, which is unfortunate but not surprising.
@@HunterTechTen I think for a lot of people it’s hard to tell what’s the inevitable influence of working with a collaborator and what’s naturally evolving opinions and tastes. The two do overlap a lot.
I would say Eric and Capt balanced each other out. They often challenged each other. But yeah the cynicism is real. Even tho I know some of the faults are valid.
@@ThePonderer I've been around here long enough (plus knowing a particular Patreon thing that I recall) to get the impression that it's just a generation disconnect between Cap and much of the viewers, since a lot of his opinions I wouldn't think came from any external influence. Then again, so much has happened through the years that it's hard to remember for sure on how Cap might've changed through the years.
They couldn't bring back Saliva and Nickelback to re-sing HERO. C'mon (sigh)
Just like the John Ottman's score for Xmen 2, bring back Nickelback/Saliva to sing Hero.
Superhero movies back then had ROCK music.
Spiderman NWH action cherography/sequences was fun.
The plot and story was meh.
Doctor Strange was right, Peter could've solved all of his problems going to college by making a phone call🤷♂️🤷♀️🤷♂️🤷♀️🤷♂️
Really refreshing to see criticism for this. Personally I just don’t like most of these MCU films in general. I probably enjoyed this one the best of the Holland trilogy for the surface level nostalgia reasons. They just lack any sort of real distinct direction and are so visually flat they might as well just be commercials. The only MCU film that actually has any interesting thought put into its compositions and direction is Guardians Vol 2 surprisingly enough. Totally disagree with you guys about the Raimi films though, they’re infinitely better directed and written than any of these. Yes even 3 is.
You have awful taste and clearly have anti mcu bias so your critique is invalid
Cap, your point about this being a fanboy convention is spot on. It felt like watching the Friends or Harry Potter reunion loosely strung together by a story that makes no sense. This is by far my least favorite Spider-Man film ever, and it killed all interest I have in the MCU moving forward. I am tired of Marvel setting plot elements up only to have them culminate in a self reverential meta-reunion movie. If any other studio did that, people would riot. Imagine if Return of the King was just Frodo and Gandalf traveling to all of the prior moments in Two Towers and Fellowship that people loved? It would be embarrassing, and everyone would have hated it because that isn't a story. It's just nostalgia baiting. It's the laziest and cheapest way to end a story in my opinion. That was one of the reasons why I couldn't stand Endgame, and this was even worse. Andrew Garfield's scenes were the only things I kind of enjoyed. I could not believe that they ruined the mythology of Doctor Strange in the MCU by making Ned, a child with "magic blood" from his cute grandma, able to open portals into other dimensions. Doctor Strange had to train for years with the Ancient One to even make sparks with a sling ring. The lack of Uncle Ben is a gigantic issue with Peter's motivation. Marvel to me, is creatively bankrupt and I won't see any more of their films for the foreseeable future. More power to those who enjoyed the movie, I wish I had the same reaction.
"Doctor Strange had to train for years"
NO! No he didn't.
"The lack of Uncle Ben is a gigantic issue with Peter's motivation."
People like you are literally why we're about to see Thomas and Martha shot again for the 400th time later this year. Seriously Ben's a cheap plot device to get Peter to become Spider-Man.
"When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you" - Peter Parker (the hidden meaning: Uncle Ben is redundant)
@@kieroncampion120 Yes he did, watch the movie again. I am correct. It’s one of my favorite MCU films, I’m a big Doctor Strange fan.
@@kieroncampion120 Your horrible take on Uncle Ben tells me that you either have never read a Spider-Man comic, seen a Spider-Man movie outside of the MCU, or any other other media version of the character, or weren’t paying attention. I’m not going to argue with you as to whether the character’s primary motivation to be a superhero is important. You can go on pretending that Spider-Man’s origin isn’t one of the best and most important stories to the character because you militantly like a movie where Spider-Man fights nostalgia cartoons, but I will not. Good day sir.
@@Torreygnr1 Maybe it took that long to become the grand wizard or whatever, but there's nothing to suggest it "took years" to use the sling ring.
I loved how this movie on a meta-level commented on how bad the two TASM movies were, but was subtle enough about it for the fans of those movies not notice and get mad.
I don’t think the movie does that at all. I think on some level the film is…let’s say “lovingly critical” of *every* preceding Spider-Man movie, but I don’t think it’s “subtly shading the TASM movies as bad films” at all. It lightly ribs on what many feel didn’t work about those movies (lizard’s motivation, etc) but at the same time it takes the strengths and potential of those films (the pathos inherent to Max despite his goofiness, Garfield’s performance and characterization, the death of Gwen) and treats them with reverence.
No part of me feels like this movie is condemning those ones.
@@ThePonderer I mean, I don't remember them making fun of the first two Raimi movies at all (even calling Goblin "Green Elf" is pretty generic joke about his appearence, which you could make about almost any version of the character, rather than a reference to fans calling him Power Ranger or the like), and even the joke about Sandman's origin is more about how similar Electro's origin is to his, rather than any kind of jab at it in of itself.
Meanwhile, the Lizard is almost a goofy comic-relief, who is easily defeated by Strange off-screen, is given zero character depth (even with Sandman they make one reference to his daughter) and whose plan in TASM1 is made fun of, they take a jab at the silliness of Electro's origin at least twice, Garfield kinda loses his brief "fight" with Tobey, Tobey and Tom fighting aliens is treated as cool, while Garfield fighting "a Russian in a Rhino machine" is a comedic punchline, he calls himself the lamest Spider-Man, his codename in the final fight is "Peter 3" and they even reference how everyone wanted Donald Glover to play Spider-Man over him in TASM1 (which, I acknowledge, was also a reference to Miles, but it can work both ways).
Again, all of these things were subtle and spread out enough that it didn't come accros as them directly pointing and laughing at those movies out in the open or anything like that, and they even throw a bone or two for those movies (Gwen's death), but it's pretty clear which previous Spider-Man movies the writers and John Watts (maybe even Feige) preferred.
@@SpedeVesku also when ned talked about wanting to see the "real" peter parker after bringing in garfield. but he does get a redemption moment where he manages to save mj.
Not really spedevesku. They have the " I'm somewhat of scientists myself" meme, Tobey is called a cool youth pastor, and lizard loosing doctor strange isn't really knock against Connors. It felt like each movie was made fun of based on their public reputation.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Is repeating a line that got memetic in real-life making fun of it? Is not like every Star Wars media where character says "I got a bad feeling about this" is trying to mock New Hope.
Ok, that's one joke at Tobey's expense and even then it's only making fun of how Tobey looks now rather than any way mocking the Raimi movies themselves.
Strange defeating the Lizard in of itself is not a big deal, but when put next to all the other jabs at TASM movies, a pattern starts to form.
I agree with a lot your all saying but at the same time you guys were way to negative, the film has bad choices and yes the story is a bit stupid and also they make Peter Parker dumb. But you guys literally nit picked the most pointless stuff and in general it is just a movie. Feel like you guys need to loosen up a little bit but it’s all opinions and all subjective.
I think you all missed some key things. Well let me not say missed but wouldn’t accept things the movie showed you
1.) Peter is a kid, despite his experiences he’s still a kid, and the choice he’s given isn’t just let these people return or save them. Their return meant their death.
2.) A three film origin isn’t a bad thought it’s a different approach to a story we’ve seen time and time over again. It’s different which it needs to be
Sure, a three film origin isn’t a bad idea. However this “origin” doesn’t make much sense as an origin. Because he already knew that “with great power there must also come great responsibility” he basically paraphrases it in civil war and he’s already the hero Spider-Man.
So what is this trilogy the origin of?
It’s just regular character development he matures. Every Spider-Man that starts out as a teenager does that.
3:02:25 how about instead affleck plays a marvel villian then it would be the third time a batman actor has played a marvel villian.
Why are they focusing on Uncle Ben?
Because the movie didn’t.
It’s an important part of this character and up until now I don’t think it’s been a huge issue. It’s something they can’t just ignore.
@@TheDayGhost No it is not. "With great power there must also come great responsibility" is the most important part to the character. In Christopher Reeve Superman, Jonathan Kent's dies. However, in the animated series, Jonathan Kent is alive. There is more than one source material on Spiderman.
@@Aaron34285 Which source material completely ignores Uncle Ben?
@@hermonymusofsparta I believe in one of the animated series Uncle Ben is alive in alt- universe.
When the captions say Capt is saying, "mean baby," I think he's actually saying, "main baity" [stuff.]. >,
He’s saying “meme baity”
@@Ren_Davis0531 Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
Crisis wasn’t the best crossover but it wasn’t flat out terrible so chill
Wong said mind erasong is unethical in She Hulk. I wonder if thats the people behind the MCU are saying, what Strange and Peter did was wrong and its gonna come back to bite them.
Or its what the She Hulk writers think of the matter. Zendaya is gonna be in the fourth film and regain her memory, so i have to ask why didnt they go with the original ending Austin described if it was written or shot.
Well fellas, you guys are definitely in the minority. The vast majority of critics and audience loved this movie. This movie has a 94% on the rotten tomatoes meter from 363 reviews. An audience score of 98% from verified watchers on rotten tomatoes. That’s The beauty of the subjectivity of film, I’m not trying to make any excuses why you didn’t like it. I respect your opinions.
I don't care that they didn't like it, but I do wish they covered more. This is a 3 hour video and I feel like they talked about 10-15% of the movie.
@@robertcherryman6906 what did you think we missed?
Rotten Tomatoes means nothing.
@@TheDayGhost I didn't think you missed anything as if you were incorrect. I meant that a lot of time was spent on the spell, the final 15 minutes, the Aunt May scenes, and the Vilnians. I was hoping to hear what you thought of Mj and Ned's dynamic, a bit more on the 3 Spider-men clashing, the rooftop scene with he 3 Peters. Just more character talk.
I actually felt that the character dynamics were what made the movie for me. I didn't disagree with much of what you guys disliked about the movie, but I felt like the good outweighed the bad and you didn't talk much about the stuff I thought worked best. That isn't to say you liked the stuff I did. Perhaps you didn't. Connor in particular seemed to dislike a lot of the Villain and 3 Spider-men conversations.
Maybe if there was more of a moderator who had some popular talking points it would make it more focused idk.
Cap has said before he doesnt care about consensus so them loving it wouldnt affect how he views this movie.
How is this a more satisfying ending for the other two Peters and not the main character? Also why does he stay Spider-Man at the end when he's lost everyone? He needs them to motivate him!
Glad it wasn't just me had an infuriating viewing experience in the cinema with this. Not because I didn't like the movie but because of the noise and talking of everyone else in the theatre. SHUT UP! So annoying.
I'm about 26 minutes in, and I will say this: I kinda already agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. As someone who did enjoy this movie, it does have flaws, and I don't like how many people (especially in this comment section) are basically saying "it's fan service, just shut your brain off and stare at the pretty lights for 2 hours and marvel at the novelty of all these separate franchises being brought together". There were some major issues I noticed even in my first viewing. The way Strange and Peter's conversation topic in the mirror dimension shifts from being about the villain's possibly dying to possibly curing the villains is one of the most contrived things I've ever seen in a movie, ever. Also, it makes absolutely no sense how curing them would do f*cking anything to save them. How does (essentially) killing the Goblin persona magically stop the glider from hitting him? How does giving Otto control of his tentacles again shut down his machine (I can't remember it's name and quite honestly I'm not sure the movie does either)? And if they'd just be sent back to their respective universes, just in the present anyway, then they wouldn't die. Honestly, this problem could've been fixed so easily. Just have Strange explain to Peter that they'll be sent back to their universes in the present day, and then Peter can't live with that as that would just catch their universes respective Spider-Men off guard, and he can't live with that. That'd also fix the problem of the multiverse stuff making absolutely no sense, which is my other biggest gripe with the movie. Also, does time not pass at all in these other universes. (I'm just going to refer to the Spidey's by their universe designations from here on out to avoid confusion). Did 96283 have no other adventures during the *17* year gap between the events of Spider Man 3 and No Way Home? Why not? How is Sandman's daughter still alive? I seem to remember her being deathly ill and that being the whole reason we were expected to sympathize with Sandman in Spider Man 3. What happened to 120703's Mary Jane? I know what happened. The audience didn't see it, so it never happened. Why didn't 120703 get a scene at the end talking to Doc Conners? I seem to remember them having a pseudo father-son relationship. Same thing with 96283 and Osborn. Also weird that 96283 doesn't mention his universe's Conners. I get them not mentioning the Lizard incident (I mean, I don't, but at least it's consistent with pretending that that never happened), but I seem to remember Conners being a fairly important character in Spider Man 2 and 3. And, again, same thing with 120703 and his Goblin. Also, just as a nitpick, why didn't 120703 call Electro "Sparkles" during their fight.
Austin we’re you sitting next to EricButts? (LOL)
Yes. I realized it was him when I heard “What, the Goblin, NOOOO!!!!” When the pumpkin bomb landed in the bridge.
@@TheDayGhost OMG, I AM SO SORRY MY GUY. Nobody deserves that.
@@R.J.Godzilla81 it was pretty brutal. It’s funny because there was a guy a few rows in front of me who would go on his phone every 20 minutes and I want even annoyed by that because all my attention was on Mr Butts to the right of me
@@TheDayGhost it’s kinda like when you fall and hurt yourself, your brain is focused on the thing that’s must damaged, and thus you don’t realize just how hurt you really are, that is until the main damage heals, and you start getting pain in multiple other places that you didn’t even know you hurt.
I loved this movie. It's full of plot holes and has some weak dialogue. I'm glad they didn't focus on jk simmons being in 2 shows. I'm glad they didn't focus things like tobey knows dr connors, and andrew knows norman osborn. I think it would have been interesting to have tobey be married and have a kid with superpowers about tom hollands age. I've always considered andrew the scifi spiderman, so I would have had some crazy scifi element with andrew.
never watched homecoming or far from home by the way. I also watched venom let there be carange and skipped the first venom.
If I had the power of the infinity stones I would restore the dislike button for this video
snap. get the return yt dislike google extension
You three were awfully hard on this film. I want a redo with Lawyer Dan to defend it.
Based on the recent 60's Spider-Man video, Dan hated it too.
@@SpedeVesku What a shame.
What?!? Dan hated it? Say it is not so!
@@SpedeVesku where can i watch Dan's opinion of no way home?
I personally loved this movie!
I can buy Connor not liking this movie for its contrivances and conveniences, but he really liked Endgame and THIS is the WORST MCU movie. The WORST? In terms of needless cameos, unnecessary scenes, weird internal logic, and characters acting out of character, I think Endgame is actually quite a bit worse than this movie.
Yeah I agree, but Endgame probably speaks more to him as a fan. I don’t get the sense Connor is necessarily a big Spider-Man fan whereas Endgame MCU fanservice probably just hit him more as a fan despite that Endgame is arguably a worse offender of all of Connor’s criticisms. It is what it is.
I think Endgame has higher highs and lower lows ultimately. I will say, this film probably needed the 3 hour run time more than Endgame did.
@@TheDayGhost
That’s fair. You can argue that Endgame is more narratively sound relative to No Way Home. Although it does spin its wheels more and doesn’t really have much to say after the first act other than fanservice.
@@Ren_Davis0531 yeah and what I like about Endgame is how they treat Iron Man and Cap. I don’t like their Thor or Hulk. My eyes also gloss over during the 40 minute army climaxes of a lot of these team up movies as well honestly and Endgame might be my least favourite Avengers climax. It’s that or Ultron but I really don’t like the Ultron movie in general.
@@TheDayGhost I actually thought No Way Home was relatively subdued for it's climax which I appreciated. I was worried when Goblin showed up it was going to go into another big fight scene in the air, but it was resolved within a few minutes on the ground.
The thing is, Connor doesn't seem easily manipulated by fan service and does get very bothered by poor story structure for the sake of fan service and applause moments. I think endgame is more guilty of that kind of thing as this movie and I can find a direct parallels for just about every complaint Connor makes, especially when it comes to quoting old lines or familiar situations.
Sorry I annoyed you so much in the theater Austin
I’ll let it slide
The legend returns. So happy to have you back Cap!
Austin's bit about the guy in his theater killed me.
Thanks haha. I didn’t even get into the worst part which is when MJ falls. He made a big reaction to every single beat of that moment.
Out of all the reviewer channels on the internet, this is the main review for this movie I’ve been waiting for.
So so many bad takes
I know there’s been lots of fanboy hyperbole surrounding this movie but this felt like it went way too far the other way… WORST mcu movie? _Reeeeeally?_
@@shelbyvillerules9962 Connor has awful film taste he thinks being a contrarian makes him intelligent
With how goblin killed aunt may in this movie it makes me wonder why he never tried to that in the first raimi film when he had the chance.
Different Spiderman; wanted to send different messages.
If Goblin wanted to kill May in the Raimi movies he easily could have. He just simply didn’t. He was toying with Peter before really settling in for the kill.
I think he just wanted her to FINISH IT! (maniacal laugh)
The review is longer than the movie🍿🎥
I think they were all in the house because Covid
All eight live action Spider-Man films are carried by great performances despite their mediocre writing.
Salient point. They all have narrative problems, and it’s just a matter of gauging whether the good outweighs the bad.
That’s where I came to before this came out as well. I think that’s why I ultimately enjoyed this film
Do you think what was a wasted opportunity was is by bringing in the Scorpion back in Homecoming or Topher Grace’s Venom the sixth and final member of the sinister six instead we got the fearsome five, but you think Peter shouldn’t trust or listen to anyone after putting his trust in Mysterio so why he should even care about the villains because he doesn’t know them and let Strange do his job and I feel like this movie should have been a 2 parter just like Infinity War and Endgame because we should have stick with the fugitive subplot and the sinister six for the first part and then the Spider verse.
If people had problems with the villains bringing in more weren't going to help, there was no way this was going to be a two parter(especially with how hard this was to keep leeks for the film under control), and whether or not Peter should save these villains is the entire conflict of the second act.
@@fightingmedialounge519 also I forgot to mention that asking Dr Strange to make people forget just to get who are close into college, don’t get me wrong but college is not a solution like Mark Zuckerberg didn’t go to college and he turned out okay.
@@srstriker6420 That's a more reasonable criticism. Although it was less about college in particular and more about him wanting friends to not be dragged down by his superhero person.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Exactly. Peter feels guilty for negatively affecting her friends lives. However, I would’ve done preferred that his friends loved ones lives be in jeopardy, like wants to do the spell because they’re getting death threats or something.
@@alexh4319 yeah, it's why I said the criticism was understandable.
I got pretty high hopes for this seeing the reception, after I saw it, I was honestly shocked by how bad it actually was
Cap, love your stuff, but shorter or please add chapter times.
I’m very happy to be here. How about Greekvolution?
I wouldn’t say this movie is the worst MCU movie. But I dare say that this was the worst Spider-Man movie… ever
1. The whole “no way home” thing was left unclear the entire time because no matter what there was always a way out. First, Murdock. Then, Doctor Strange. Last, Andrew and Tobey. This movie should’ve been called “Every Way Home”.
2. There were too many villains. For years I’ve heard the complaint that one of Spider-Man 3’s biggest problems was having 3 villains. No Way Home tried to do 5 and they miserably failed. Write Sandman and Lizard out of the movie and you’d barely affect the plot. That tells you they had too many villains
3. The whole repercussions of his identity getting revealed make no sense. How is he allowed to go to school, much less walk the streets??? “There is still a court of public opinion”… yeah that only lasted about 5 minutes and suddenly he’s able to go out without people screaming at him
4. As great as Tobey and Andrew are, they outshined Tom. That was unnecessary. Tom fought Thanos. He shouldn’t need help fighting 5 human-based villains.
5. Electro knowing Spider-Man’s identity through absorbing data is utter bullshit. Like Tobey and Andrew said, they DON’T GO AROUND ADVERTISING THEIR IDENTITIES
6. I could honestly forgive all of these shortcomings if they had 1 thing: the Sinister Six. The REAL Sinister Six. Venom getting drunk in a bar in Mexico doesn’t count. I wanted the Sinister Six in this movie. That was literally all I was asking for. But Marvel didn’t deliver. I’m glad I’m not the only one who disliked No Way Home. Thank you for this review
Nitpicking