This was the first method I learnt for framing a beam or column casing. So simple to do with only a pencil, square, saw, hammer and nails. Another great video to watch thanks. You are a good Teacher 👍🏻
That's pretty much the same way I do them. Best tip in the vid was the little notch off the bottom of the stop block 😊 I had two broken ribs & a trapped nerve in the same sort of location years ago after a car crash & to this day it's one of the worst pains I had & it lasted weeks, so you have my sympathy.
Lovely job, all looks very tidy! Nice to learn different ways to go about things practically. As an architectural technologist I detail this sort of thing all the time but haven't seen a lot of it in person. Recently found your channel and had to subscribe - you are a great teacher. Just bought my first place, a 'doer upper' of which I will be doing as much as possible myself and with my dad. Keep up the great content👍
Hi there🖐I know what you mean and over the years I've seen all sorts of hash jobs made of this task😬Thanks for your comment and all the best with your project👍Cheers Del
And there you go😉 another great video. Amazing what scrap and offcuts can get you out of. Especially now timber is so bloody expensive. Hope those ribs get better soon. 👍
Oh yeah Ian👊I have the '2 foot' rule on my jobs🤔 Any piece of timber longer than 2 foot is always kept until the jobs finished😎Thanks for watching 🤩Cheers Del
and that tip for the notch on the mitre saw stop..... ffs how have i not done that before. thats why these vids are so usefull. now ill remember to do this
nice neat job there del. ive done similar myself in the past. hope the rib knack gets better soon. worst accident i saw on site involved a total hardcase roofer from blyth. he slipped off a roof and landed on the scaffold but caught his chest on a scaff tube coming through the deck. entire side of his chest was black and blue and we had to help him down the ladders. took him to hospital and the bumps in the road had him in agony. poor bloke. never seen such a change in someone before. he was appreciative of the help though.
The thing is Paul, we all take our health for granted, and sometimes don't take some of the dangers our jobs entail as seriously as we should, and as your little story shows things can go bad really quickly😬Thanks for your comment bud 😎 Cheers Del
Hi Del, great video, as usual, this method is widely used by builders, but unfortunately, this method no longer complies with building regs, not up in Leeds anyway. British gypsum recommends the use of MF framing as it is not combustible together with 12mm fire-line pink boards to provide 60min protection, I hope I don't come across as a ball breaker, just making an observational point, :)
Hi there🖐Not a 'ball breaker' at all👍and its always great to hear what guys are doing/being asked to do, in different parts of the country🤩 I think in this situation any fire is most likely to get to the steel beams first via the timber joisted floor, which is, perhaps, why the BCO has not asked for metal framing rather than timber🤔 Thanks for your comment and for watching 😎 Cheers Del
You are quite correct, this method does not comply with the national Bldg Regs, which requires the fire casing to be fixed to non-combustible grounds i.e. metal 'E' clips or something like Glasroc noggins. I prefer to spec 'E' clips plus vertical light gauge metal straps simply fixed to the 'E' clips with plasterboard screws for simplicity.
@@thetallcarpenter Fire rises and therefore the ceiling elements are the first to be breached, long before the floor fails. Also, the timber joists will char and provide a degree of fire protection to themselves, the BRE can provide the performance of timber in this respect. However, the timber joists and underside of the floor will provide a fire load from the surface combustion that will generate heat to attack and degrade the performance of the steel that is to all intents and purposes unprotected.
Hi Del! Well done but that's ONE way to do it. As it's about 600mm height to board (even if a bit more, no one's ever going to stress that part of the house with their elbows), I'd personally fix a batten along the top corner, where the wall joints the ceiling. Then hang the plasterboard down past the beam (about 600m so within specs), trim it flush with the bottom ceiling board. Fix another batten behind the bottom part of the plasterboard so I have a way to fix the edge of the plasterboard that's fixed onto the lower ceiling. Few scraps to joint the plasterboard along the wall, as It's definitely wider than 2400. I hope I made myself clear :) Less time spent on dealing with offcults in beam, less material and more important for me: no bloody dabbing. I can drop you a joke of a drawing if you're interested in my method, but I don't know your email address.
Hi Petru🖐I get exactly what you are saying bud, and it's certainly a quick way of doing it without having to mess about with board adhesive👊 Thanks for your comment and for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Sounds like a better way to do it tbh since you wont have to deal with issues related to the steel expanding, it could crack the wood easily when the steel expands during summer and the plasterboards would loosen up with this method. Wood and metal dont mix very well, just ask the idiot engineers in Norway where I live that made a bridge that collapsed because of it, they even admitted it was a terrible idea but did it anyway.
Hi Del, I know what you mean about rib injuries. Had a do on site last week, which has resulted in 3 cracked ribs. Even Co Codamol isn't touching it. Lovely job as always bubby.
Nice one Del, now where's them eggs 😂 hopefully you'll make a quick recovery, cracked ribs very sore 🤕, I'm only getting back after I fractured my shoulder in July, painful 😖 , 👍☘️🇮🇪👏🤓
Sorry to hear about your shoulder John 😢 and I do know that shoulders can also be very painful plus take a long time to heal😬Thanks for watching bud 😎 Cheers
Used to do that a loong time ago. Remember a site foreman questioning the noggins. He was worried that they'd shrink and fall out. I said the same thing. They shrink mainly across the width, not so much across the length.
I was told in college many years ago by the joinery lecturer that timber doesn't shrink lengthways.?pretty much the same way I box out steel but use 3×2 for noise rather than 2×1
Certified way to fire protect steel beams supporting upper floors cannot involve combustable material to frame, best practice is to use gyproc galv framing along with fireline board.
Same as I do but if the steel is out I'll use 4x2 on edge as a nogging, set one at one at either end the right distance out to take a batten rather than rip a batten down to the right depth, then run a string line and set the rest to the line.. You're right with the web often being slightly different, if your nogging is ½ mil or so short, sprinkle a pinch of sawdust under the nogging then tap it in, the sawdust will compress nicely and take up that ½ mil gap. 👍
Eyup Del. Exactly what I needed to know for my new crib. Anyone who has had the rib problem can feel your pain. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen is all you can do while you grit your teeth innit? Get well soon fella. Dave
I’ve always knocked in 3x2 and tried to knock it in half way and leave the ‘27 or 28mm’ whatever it is on a job overhanging.. absolute nightmare if you knock em in too far and running them all in plumb, this really looks a much better way of doing it👍🏼
What i always do is dip my custard cremes in my tea in a sideways horizontal fashion and ponder the issue for about three to four hours, then i will call a professional.
Ultimately Mat, given enough time, fire will find its way through most things, and all we are trying to do is slow it sufficiently so a building can be evacuated, and it's logical that robust fire resistant details are more important on multi storey and larger buildings with more people in them🤔
Was in a restaurant recently in a converted older building. No plasterboard on the ceiling, joists and the underside of t&g floorboards above all exposed. The joists were supported on a couple of 12 x 12 timbers spanning the width of the place plus a recently installed steel beam where an internal wall had been removed. No fire protection to any of that, over both customer dining and kitchen areas. How does that comply with Building Regs?
Great comment🖐and I suspect it will have something to do with it being an existing structure built before fire proofing was required🤔 but as for the steel beam😶not sure😵💫Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Whatever batten you screw to to the noggins on the steel screw and plug the same at ceiling level, then just dab between the two and board ,job done no need for plumbing or straightening the two battens have done that. Hope the ribs get better soon mate, nothing worse, rest is your friend👍
I’m not sure I understand the expansion idea…. The little offcuts aren’t going to expand much at all and they’re rigidly attached to the steel anyway, so won’t the problem still be there as the joists expand/contract?
Hi there🖐Problems will only occur if the joists shrink back past the bottom of the steel beam. Allow the joist to hang down that extra few millimetres allows for this👍Cheers Del
You failed to mention the moisture content of the timber solders you jammed into the H beam ,, depending on the ambient temperature these could swell or shrink and become loose ? You could have utilised the ends of the bolts joining the H beam and bolted a timber/s to them then jammed the timber soldiers in place and also nailed them this would eliminate a potential latent defect of the framing becoming loose from timber shrinkage or expansion which is highly likely.
Hi Liam🖐I'd love to do enough work to warrant having a Hilti style shot gun, as you say, perfect for this kind of work👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Hi there🖐I had a really silly fall, and landed flat on my back on the corner of a stack of plasterboard😬It's flippin sore😢Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Hi Del, nice looking job as usual. Hope you're ribs get better soon mate, you said before you're joints gave you problems anyway so don't go falling off ladders. Speaking from experience you work to hard to get any sympathy from the DWP. 👍👍
Nice one again Del. Funny enough I’m just boxing in some steels at the moment. Hope the ribs get better soon? As you get older, we don’t bounce as well as we used too, was it a bike crash?
Hi there👍If the steel beam has got a 'web' like the one in the video, then in exactly the same way, but with another length of batten/timber running parallel at the top edge👊Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Cumbria. I know the Scottish call all those bits as dwangs, but when we do woodwork, we call them noggins, and when we need them for i-beams, we call them dwangs.
I have bought the same mitre saw, and while doing my skirtings the damn safety lever kept pinching the web my thumb and finger. Blood everywhere. Defeats the object of the thing.
Hi there🖐Because when the steel gerts too hot it will buckle/derorm causing everything it supports to potentially collapse, and not just the timber floor👍Cheers Del
@thetallcarpenter but in the meantime, the fire has spread throughout the house, and the roof has collapsed. But I suppose you are left with a nice wall still in place. 😆
@Jim-fw4rx I completely get what you're saying, but heat/fire will cause a steel beam to fail due to deformation quicker than a floor constructed of 9x2 timbers at 400 centers packed with fire resistant sound insulation😬Thanks for your comments 😎Cheers
Reading Berkshire, just 1 layer of fireline, so like your job where you say you have to project 300mm past steel we would have to do the whole ceiling, I tend to plasterboard the ground floor completely in fireline now.
It’s almost impossible to get an answer to the question “how do you detail the fireboarding around a steel” and I’m sure it varies depending on the exact situation. (Hence requires building control comment on a case by case as you’ve implied here.) I’ve heard standard is 600mm back from steel (and presumably down the wall where steel enters as well?) Surely fire could spread from the room under the plasterboard through a section that is not fire boarded, then transfer through the joist voids to the steel that way?? Or have I misunderstood the reason for fire boarding over a steel? Or is that not relevant here because of the nogs you’ve got adjacent to the steel?
Hi Mat🖐I understand your question about a fire getting to the steel through the non fire boarded floor joists, but it's worth noting that the floor void also has 100mm fire resistant sound insulation, plus the solid blocking like you say👍I think I'm going to doa bit more research on this and try and get a definitive answer/detail and then try and do a video on it🤔Thanks for watching and your comment 😎 Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Cool - thanks. I would have thought that insulation doesn't completely block the spread of fire, and even noggins themselves, as they are not sealed (small air gaps etc, certainly not to the same standard as a skim coat which prevents air getting through) may not do the job as well. On the other hand I may have completely misunderstood the reason for the fireboard over the steel...
Not according to the white book, 2 layers of grey will only give 1/2 hr FR. 1 layer of fireline using a non gyp-frame fix gives 1/2 hr. Using gypframe system and 1 x 12.5mm fireline gives you 1 hr. The difference between gypliner and 6A or any other metal is nobody knows.
This installation is simply wrong for this situation. The steel is an element of structure as defined by the Bldg Regs and it is not purely supporting a roof so therefore needs to be fire protected to 30mins/60mins. The Regs require that the fire casing to the steel is fixed in position with non-combustible grounds that either means fire casing noggins or more simply, metal 'E' clips that clamp onto the steel flanges and light gauge metal straps between. The 'E' clips are a standard plasterboard accessory available from the builders merchant and are quicker than timber to install and don't move like timber noggins when they shrink and all fixings are simply dryline screws. Also, the Bldg Inspector is wrong to just ask for 300mm of Fireline board to the ceiling adjacent to the steel as the steel will be exposed to a fire that will breach into the ceiling void and attack the steel. The steel should be wrapped on its three sides with Fireline board and the joints around each joist should be sealed with fire proof caulking. The fact that the joists are supported on the bottom flange of the steel creates this problem and usually the preferred structural solution is to sit the joist on the top of the steel, the steel size will have had to be increased to account for the load on the bottom flange. If the ceiling is to be considered as fire protecting the steel then the whole ceiling must be fire-proofed with either Fireline board or two layers of 12.7mm plasterboard. It concerns me that the Bldg Inspector has suggested such a woefully inadequate proposal that flies in the face of sound fire engineering, probably all for the sake of the builder's convenience.
This is exactly right. Fire caulk also known as intumescent mastic. 60mins can be achieved using Gypframe system and 1 skin of 12.5mm(any other fixing system has to be 2 x 12.5mm fireline). the problem being that 1 skin doesn't give you a 1hr fire rating to the ceiling, so in theory the underside of the steel is only 30mins.
You don't need any of that bud, fix the ceiling up first (which you should do anyway), leaving a little 20mm overhang, dab the wall out and trim the corner flush once dabs gone hard 👍
I get exactly what you're saying Ben👍but I guess I like to do as much as I can so the dot and dabbers can get done in one hit as they only do the sticking and I do all the tacking👊Thanks for your comment🤩Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Your drywall gap on the face of the beam is larger at the bottom because of the horizontal board you added, meaning the wall face/corner isn't square.
@evictioncarpentry2628 I'm still not sure what you're out🤔The vertical board will be plumb and the horizontal/ceiling board will be level, meaning they will be perfectly square to each other👍The bottom 'runner' batten is wider than the gap between the back of the plasterboard and the blockwork because the beam is set back 8/10mm.
Bloody Council Building Control officers need to start working from the same book, i was made to remove all my friction fit noggins and according to him i should use the British Gypsum lighweight framing system although i framed in timber but was definitely not allowed to use friction fit noggins neither was i allowed to fit the ends of the floor joists into the web of the steels he insisted that i have a timber bolted through the web of the steel and then use joist hangers screwed to that. Needless to say to say I now use private Building Inspectors who work with you rather than against you as it seems is the norm for local councils
Hi there🖐I can feel the frustration in your comnent bud, and you're quite right that certain details do seem to wanted depending on which inspector you get🤔Thanks for watching and your comment 😎 Cheers Del
The cost of 6x2 compared to a few off cuts lying around, off cuts all day long. The depth of that internal on the steel is deeper than 50mm, if you bolt a timber in there it won't finish flush with the face of the steel and you'll end up packing it out and all sorts, a lot quicker and easier doing it as shown!
@@andrewhorne808 sorry Andrew this comment wasn’t directed at you it was directed at the top comment, theres always a negative comment ,, think your doing a top job pal 👍
Hi there🖐Its a Gypsum based material that usually comes in boards12.5mm thick, 1.2 meters wide by 2.4 meters long. Its is screwed to timber or stuck to masonry before being plastered, hence being called, 'plasterboard'👊Cheers Del
Putting this way way old method is so far outdated , it was used everywhere from the 1930s into the 1990s ,however untreated wood is highly flammable so voided any fire wall effectiveness , Now laws / codes increasingly ban this method and require fire resistant materials to be used & Also the infills must be made secure and not just wedged in place , Anyone that follows this ancient make do method would be well advised to get up to date information and requirements first , from your building construction inspectors ,So as to Potentially avoid any inspection issues at a later date
@@thetallcarpenter , I never said their was , Only said that untreated scrap wood used in this common way is not fire resistant therefore voids all fire break certification, And that due to ever more rules and codes being mandated for construction requirements by over educated bureaucrats ,that be careful as many inspectors want to see actual documentation certification approvals stating the fire resistant time for all materials used , including methods of fitting and fixture for all hidden materials even when covered up with other fire resistant materials, I have encountered this and it is becoming much more common , the building regulations & requirements for construction is Ever more increasingly following marine & offshore oil industry standards where every item down to nails screws and type of tools even for coveralls must all be 100% of approved certified specification , & certified by a approved body to be Fit for purpose ,Hence every thing used in the construction of a fire wall down to the last nail and or decorative coating must be fully in compliance with the smallest detail , & As many inspectors are only educated book rule followers with Zero common sense or actual Hands on work knowledge or experience they go out of their way to find non compliance , issues , no matter how small that may be , Reality & Fact that is how it is going , That is why I suggested it is best to check the smallest requirements with the relevant authority/department to make sure you do not fall foul of Bureaucracy , Sign of the times ,
@peterg791 Hi Peter🖐Reading your comments and some of the terminology you use, it's clear that you are in the US/Canada where strict adherence to fire protection is markedly different due to much of your buildings being made only of wood therefore making fire a much much great risk to a buildings structure than method we predominantly use here in the UK of masonary block and brick. The reality of the situation such as the one in my video is that, the steel beams and thier relationship to other parts of the buildings are designed by a structural engineer and the appropriate level of fire protection is directed by the Building Inspector so as long as its done to his/her satisfaction there is no inspection to fail. It's debatable whether using timber to fix the fire resistant board to will not give the 30 minutes fire protection required over fixing it to non combustible grounds as its the fire resistant plasterboard that resists the flames/heat and not what it's fixed to. I appreciate you taking the time to write your comments👍Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Hi thanks for the reply , my experience of very Pin Prick construction inspectors is from projects in UK & Europe , True I have had experience of the same issues in both Us & Canadian construction where as you say they are extremely tight on regulations , Most domestic constructions look impressive ,but fact is they are mostly cosmetic and no where even close to the quality of UK European construction ( unless you are talking millions for homes ) have even been asked for certificates of mill testing for steel work in the UK and its fire temperature rise rate , even when it is obviously going to take many hours for the steelwork to reach a temperature that would in any way effectively compromise the integrity , I get younger engineering colleagues asking me almost daily about things like they find some fire resistant materials they have discovered does not have a independent certifying test certificate Only a manufacturing company stating that is compliant and meets relevant codes, And if they can sign off on it , that is how much people lose track of common sense and logic ( yes that really happens ) I have also had several inspectors in the south and East regions of the UK rejecting the method you demonstrated and insisted on the wooden supports get replaced with fire retardant material and securely fixed in place , As for myself I do believe that many codes and regulations are overkill But as the old school fades out the new wave take over they can only see the paper Stats ,and nothing more
@@peterg791 I can't argue with what you're saying Peter, and until such details as you've highlighted in your comments are more rigorously adopted, implemented and ultimately enforced, builders on the 'coal face' are not going to be looking to make more work for themselves than necessary😶 Rest assured, that IF I'm ever asked to clad a beam in strict accordance with any newer regs, I'll be sure to make a video on it👍Cheers Del
Hope you recover soon, never easy when you've work to do😢. I broke two in a car crash and worked through it, but being on site theres plenty to laugh about, and thats when it really hurt 😂 👷🪚🔨
This was the first method I learnt for framing a beam or column casing. So simple to do with only a pencil, square, saw, hammer and nails.
Another great video to watch thanks.
You are a good Teacher 👍🏻
Thanks so much for kind words 🙏 and thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
That's pretty much the same way I do them.
Best tip in the vid was the little notch off the bottom of the stop block 😊
I had two broken ribs & a trapped nerve in the same sort of location years ago after a car crash & to this day it's one of the worst pains I had & it lasted weeks, so you have my sympathy.
Hi Darren🖐It's cool that we use the same method😉and yes, rib injuries sure can be painful😬Cheers Del
absolutely the best tip.
Lovely job, all looks very tidy! Nice to learn different ways to go about things practically. As an architectural technologist I detail this sort of thing all the time but haven't seen a lot of it in person. Recently found your channel and had to subscribe - you are a great teacher. Just bought my first place, a 'doer upper' of which I will be doing as much as possible myself and with my dad. Keep up the great content👍
Hi there🖐I know what you mean and over the years I've seen all sorts of hash jobs made of this task😬Thanks for your comment and all the best with your project👍Cheers Del
And there you go😉 another great video. Amazing what scrap and offcuts can get you out of. Especially now timber is so bloody expensive. Hope those ribs get better soon. 👍
Oh yeah Ian👊I have the '2 foot' rule on my jobs🤔 Any piece of timber longer than 2 foot is always kept until the jobs finished😎Thanks for watching 🤩Cheers Del
Thanks for the video, Del. It's always a pleasure to see you smile. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, my friend.
Thanks for you kind words bud🙏and I also hope you have a peaceful Christmas👍Cheers Del
Thanks for the video Del always enjoy them 👍🏻
Appreciate your comment John🤩Cheers
Nice and simple, but works well. Thanks del 👍
Sure does bud👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers
Lovely job. I do enjoy your content Del. Cheers James
I appreciate you watching James🤩and thanks for your kind comment 😎 Cheers Del
And there you go.. 👊🏻
Nicely done Del.
It's pretty simple stuff Dan🤔but still worth showing👍See you soon bud🥳🍻
and that tip for the notch on the mitre saw stop..... ffs how have i not done that before. thats why these vids are so usefull. now ill remember to do this
Hi Paul🖐hope all is well bud🤞It's only a little tip, but it's a good one👊Cheers
nice neat job there del. ive done similar myself in the past. hope the rib knack gets better soon. worst accident i saw on site involved a total hardcase roofer from blyth. he slipped off a roof and landed on the scaffold but caught his chest on a scaff tube coming through the deck. entire side of his chest was black and blue and we had to help him down the ladders. took him to hospital and the bumps in the road had him in agony. poor bloke. never seen such a change in someone before. he was appreciative of the help though.
The thing is Paul, we all take our health for granted, and sometimes don't take some of the dangers our jobs entail as seriously as we should, and as your little story shows things can go bad really quickly😬Thanks for your comment bud 😎 Cheers Del
Hi del as always some great advice 👍 hope your fully fit soon 🙏👋
Hi John🖐Thanks for your kind regards bud🤗Cheers
Nice tip there Del with the stop on the mitre saw👌
The simple ones are the best James👊Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers
Great video Del 🙌
Cheers Tony🤩
Nice little tip there del 👍👍👍.
Hope your ribs get better soon .👍👍
Hi John🖐Thanks for watching bud and your kind regards🤗Cheers Del
Hi Del, great video, as usual, this method is widely used by builders, but unfortunately, this method no longer complies with building regs, not up in Leeds anyway. British gypsum recommends the use of MF framing as it is not combustible together with 12mm fire-line pink boards to provide 60min protection, I hope I don't come across as a ball breaker, just making an observational point, :)
Hi there🖐Not a 'ball breaker' at all👍and its always great to hear what guys are doing/being asked to do, in different parts of the country🤩 I think in this situation any fire is most likely to get to the steel beams first via the timber joisted floor, which is, perhaps, why the BCO has not asked for metal framing rather than timber🤔 Thanks for your comment and for watching 😎 Cheers Del
You are quite correct, this method does not comply with the national Bldg Regs, which requires the fire casing to be fixed to non-combustible grounds i.e. metal 'E' clips or something like Glasroc noggins. I prefer to spec 'E' clips plus vertical light gauge metal straps simply fixed to the 'E' clips with plasterboard screws for simplicity.
@@thetallcarpenter Fire rises and therefore the ceiling elements are the first to be breached, long before the floor fails. Also, the timber joists will char and provide a degree of fire protection to themselves, the BRE can provide the performance of timber in this respect. However, the timber joists and underside of the floor will provide a fire load from the surface combustion that will generate heat to attack and degrade the performance of the steel that is to all intents and purposes unprotected.
6A to the ceiling. Gypframe system to the steel, 1 skin of 12.5 fireline as downstand. 1 hr FR according to white book.
Always done it like this until last week as no longer comply with B R down here in Sussex.
Love it del! Get well soon chief!
Cheers Josh🤩Thanks for watching😎
👍lovely job as always dell
Cheers Stevie🤩Thanks for watching bud 😎
Great video great tips as always
Cheers Trevor🤩
Nice neat job as always del 👍
Hi Lewis🖐Appreciate your comment bud🤗and thanks for watching 😎 Cheers
That is the thing about pros you make it look easy…. Nice job Del
Your too kind Doug🙏Cheers Del
Hi Del! Well done but that's ONE way to do it. As it's about 600mm height to board (even if a bit more, no one's ever going to stress that part of the house with their elbows), I'd personally fix a batten along the top corner, where the wall joints the ceiling. Then hang the plasterboard down past the beam (about 600m so within specs), trim it flush with the bottom ceiling board. Fix another batten behind the bottom part of the plasterboard so I have a way to fix the edge of the plasterboard that's fixed onto the lower ceiling. Few scraps to joint the plasterboard along the wall, as It's definitely wider than 2400. I hope I made myself clear :) Less time spent on dealing with offcults in beam, less material and more important for me: no bloody dabbing. I can drop you a joke of a drawing if you're interested in my method, but I don't know your email address.
Hi Petru🖐I get exactly what you are saying bud, and it's certainly a quick way of doing it without having to mess about with board adhesive👊 Thanks for your comment and for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Sounds like a better way to do it tbh since you wont have to deal with issues related to the steel expanding, it could crack the wood easily when the steel expands during summer and the plasterboards would loosen up with this method. Wood and metal dont mix very well, just ask the idiot engineers in Norway where I live that made a bridge that collapsed because of it, they even admitted it was a terrible idea but did it anyway.
Great video Del !!! thanks
Cheers Michael 😎
Hi Del, I know what you mean about rib injuries. Had a do on site last week, which has resulted in 3 cracked ribs. Even Co Codamol isn't touching it.
Lovely job as always bubby.
Bloody hell Mike, I LITERALLY can feel your pain😬Get well soon bud, and thanks for watching🤩Cheers Del
Nice on Del - I want a pound rack at my builders merchant !! great idea!! Cheers Simmo
It's an awesome idea Ben🤩and really handy if you just need the odd length of batten/timber👍Cheers Del
Nice one Del, now where's them eggs 😂 hopefully you'll make a quick recovery, cracked ribs very sore 🤕, I'm only getting back after I fractured my shoulder in July, painful 😖 , 👍☘️🇮🇪👏🤓
Sorry to hear about your shoulder John 😢 and I do know that shoulders can also be very painful plus take a long time to heal😬Thanks for watching bud 😎 Cheers
Lovely job.
Cheers Jeff🤗Thanks for watching 😎
There you go, I learned something. Always carry a spare rib
There's a joke about Adam and Eve in there somewhere😆Cheers Del
Used to do that a loong time ago. Remember a site foreman questioning the noggins. He was worried that they'd shrink and fall out. I said the same thing. They shrink mainly across the width, not so much across the length.
Hi Matt🖐You're quite right, and once the plasterboard is screwed to the batten it can't go anywhere anyway👍Cheets Del
I was told in college many years ago by the joinery lecturer that timber doesn't shrink lengthways.?pretty much the same way I box out steel but use 3×2 for noise rather than 2×1
great video del
Thanks for watching Neil🤩
Certified way to fire protect steel beams supporting upper floors cannot involve combustable material to frame, best practice is to use gyproc galv framing along with fireline board.
Hi there🖐Yes, this pointed out in previous comments👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Same as I do but if the steel is out I'll use 4x2 on edge as a nogging, set one at one at either end the right distance out to take a batten rather than rip a batten down to the right depth, then run a string line and set the rest to the line.. You're right with the web often being slightly different, if your nogging is ½ mil or so short, sprinkle a pinch of sawdust under the nogging then tap it in, the sawdust will compress nicely and take up that ½ mil gap. 👍
Hi Rob🖐 great comment bud👍and good way of doing it if the beams not straight😎Cheers
Same way I do. Especially if the steel is on the floor.
@@MrRedfreds 👍😎
That's lovely 😍
Thanks for watching Jamie🤩Cheers Del
Eyup Del. Exactly what I needed to know for my new crib. Anyone who has had the rib problem can feel your pain. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen is all you can do while you grit your teeth innit? Get well soon fella. Dave
Hi Dave🖐You're quite right bud, and this video was bought to in association with Paracetamol and Ibuprofen🤪Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers
you are a generous guy. thank you.
It's my pleasure 🙏 and thanks for your comment 😎 Cheers Del
I’ve always knocked in 3x2 and tried to knock it in half way and leave the ‘27 or 28mm’ whatever it is on a job overhanging.. absolute nightmare if you knock em in too far and running them all in plumb, this really looks a much better way of doing it👍🏼
I've done the same Robbie, and like you say, it's murder if you knock em in too far😵💫Cheers Del
What i always do is dip my custard cremes in my tea in a sideways horizontal fashion and ponder the issue for about three to
four hours,
then i will call a professional.
All the best desisions are made after a cup of tea and a biscuit😉Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter a true craftsman Delboy 👍🏼
Nice job!!
Thanks David🤩Cheers Del
👍👍👍.Thanks Del
My pleasure Pete🤩
Ultimately Mat, given enough time, fire will find its way through most things, and all we are trying to do is slow it sufficiently so a building can be evacuated, and it's logical that robust fire resistant details are more important on multi storey and larger buildings with more people in them🤔
Was in a restaurant recently in a converted older building. No plasterboard on the ceiling, joists and the underside of t&g floorboards above all exposed. The joists were supported on a couple of 12 x 12 timbers spanning the width of the place plus a recently installed steel beam where an internal wall had been removed. No fire protection to any of that, over both customer dining and kitchen areas. How does that comply with Building Regs?
Great comment🖐and I suspect it will have something to do with it being an existing structure built before fire proofing was required🤔 but as for the steel beam😶not sure😵💫Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Many thanks only one other video on this so thank you
My pleasure bud🤗and thanks for watching🤩Cheers Del
Oh Yes!!! TC's a bargfain hunter now!! 😂
I squeak when I walk Garviel 😆
😂😂@@thetallcarpenter
Been doing it this way for years but always put on 2 layers of thermal plaster board.
Hi Denis🖐Yeah, we used to put a double layer of board on but only if 1 hour fire check was needed🤔Thanks for watching and your comment 😎 Cheers Del
Whatever batten you screw to to the noggins on the steel screw and plug the same at ceiling level, then just dab between the two and board ,job done no need for plumbing or straightening the two battens have done that. Hope the ribs get better soon mate, nothing worse, rest is your friend👍
I get you Andy👊 but the blockwork isn't always straight😬so I kinda do this way out of habit👍Cheers fella🤩
@@thetallcarpenter 👍
Excellent, thank you. It's a big thumbs-up and a sub from me. 😄😄👍👍
Hi DZ🖐Thanks for watching bud and for subscribing🙏Cheers Del
I’m not sure I understand the expansion idea…. The little offcuts aren’t going to expand much at all and they’re rigidly attached to the steel anyway, so won’t the problem still be there as the joists expand/contract?
Hi there🖐Problems will only occur if the joists shrink back past the bottom of the steel beam. Allow the joist to hang down that extra few millimetres allows for this👍Cheers Del
You failed to mention the moisture content of the timber solders you jammed into the H beam ,, depending on the ambient temperature these could swell or shrink and become loose ? You could have utilised the ends of the bolts joining the H beam and bolted a timber/s to them then jammed the timber soldiers in place and also nailed them this would eliminate a potential latent defect of the framing becoming loose from timber shrinkage or expansion which is highly likely.
Hi John🖐It's not the first time I've done this bud😉Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
I prefer to shot fire a timer in but this works
Hi Liam🖐I'd love to do enough work to warrant having a Hilti style shot gun, as you say, perfect for this kind of work👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Hey del if you ever decide to upgrade or sell your van I’ll buy it
Hi there🖐With the price of new vans nowadays, I think mine will have to see me right through to retirement😬Cheers Del
Why do you have damaged ribs, Del...if you don't mind me asking?
Hi there🖐I had a really silly fall, and landed flat on my back on the corner of a stack of plasterboard😬It's flippin sore😢Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Sorry to hear that. You'll be back to 100% soon, but take it easy Del.@@thetallcarpenter
Hope you didn't damage to many plasterboards 😂😂😂😂, get better soon
@@btmanbirdman1 That would've really hurt Stewart 🤪
Hi Del, nice looking job as usual. Hope you're ribs get better soon mate, you said before you're joints gave you problems anyway so don't go falling off ladders. Speaking from experience you work to hard to get any sympathy from the DWP. 👍👍
Falling off things certainly doesn't help Kevin😵💫Thanks for your kind regards bud🤩Cheers
Nice one again Del. Funny enough I’m just boxing in some steels at the moment. Hope the ribs get better soon? As you get older, we don’t bounce as well as we used too, was it a bike crash?
@barryford7135 Yeah Barry, I'm really not compatible with getting older😬
@@thetallcarpenter me neither Del. ☹️
👍😎
How do you attach to a steel across a window?
Hi there👍If the steel beam has got a 'web' like the one in the video, then in exactly the same way, but with another length of batten/timber running parallel at the top edge👊Cheers Del
I've always called studs in steel as dwangs
Are you north of the boarder by any chance😊
@@thetallcarpenter Cumbria. I know the Scottish call all those bits as dwangs, but when we do woodwork, we call them noggins, and when we need them for i-beams, we call them dwangs.
@@Mee10792 I'm gonna tray and start calling them dwangs in my videos😉
I have bought the same mitre saw, and while doing my skirtings the damn safety lever kept pinching the web my thumb and finger. Blood everywhere. Defeats the object of the thing.
Hi there🖐That doesn't sound good bud😬Cheers Del
Why fire board around steel beams but normal plaster board around wooden floor beams? I can't get my head around that!
Hi there🖐Because when the steel gerts too hot it will buckle/derorm causing everything it supports to potentially collapse, and not just the timber floor👍Cheers Del
@thetallcarpenter but in the meantime, the fire has spread throughout the house, and the roof has collapsed. But I suppose you are left with a nice wall still in place. 😆
@Jim-fw4rx I completely get what you're saying, but heat/fire will cause a steel beam to fail due to deformation quicker than a floor constructed of 9x2 timbers at 400 centers packed with fire resistant sound insulation😬Thanks for your comments 😎Cheers
Is it mabey because steel beams are integral to the entire structure of the building? 😂
@@WelshChapman does that mean we are better off putting a concrete lintel in?
Does it require insulation to stop cold bridges?
Hi there🖐Not in this instance as its all internal👍Cheers Del
We are required to fire line the whole ceiling where a steel is involved..
@@nigelsmith1198 Whereabouts are you Nigel🤔
@@nigelsmith1198 double boarding the steel ?
Reading Berkshire, just 1 layer of fireline, so like your job where you say you have to project 300mm past steel we would have to do the whole ceiling, I tend to plasterboard the ground floor completely in fireline now.
OH Damn! What have you done to your ribs?
I'm not 100% sure bud🤔but the fall I took would have killed a normal man🤪 Cheers
@@thetallcarpenter Bloody Hell! I pray you get better quik
@garvielloken3929 I was being a bit dramatic bud🤪It's much better now👍
It’s almost impossible to get an answer to the question “how do you detail the fireboarding around a steel” and I’m sure it varies depending on the exact situation. (Hence requires building control comment on a case by case as you’ve implied here.)
I’ve heard standard is 600mm back from steel (and presumably down the wall where steel enters as well?)
Surely fire could spread from the room under the plasterboard through a section that is not fire boarded, then transfer through the joist voids to the steel that way?? Or have I misunderstood the reason for fire boarding over a steel?
Or is that not relevant here because of the nogs you’ve got adjacent to the steel?
Hi Mat🖐I understand your question about a fire getting to the steel through the non fire boarded floor joists, but it's worth noting that the floor void also has 100mm fire resistant sound insulation, plus the solid blocking like you say👍I think I'm going to doa bit more research on this and try and get a definitive answer/detail and then try and do a video on it🤔Thanks for watching and your comment 😎 Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Cool - thanks. I would have thought that insulation doesn't completely block the spread of fire, and even noggins themselves, as they are not sealed (small air gaps etc, certainly not to the same standard as a skim coat which prevents air getting through) may not do the job as well. On the other hand I may have completely misunderstood the reason for the fireboard over the steel...
🤘😎🤘
Thanks for watching Wayne 😎
👍
Thanks for watching Paddy👍
Tidy as always buddy
Cheers Tim🤩Thanks for watching bud 😎
As per 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Cheers Alistair 😎
Seen a spread use circle of ply on underneath
I've never seen that Bobbler🙃Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
I would screw a strip of plasterboard to the noggin’s and then let the dot & dab stick to that ?? Too easy
Hi there🖐Yeah that would work, but I wanted to tack the ceiling before the dot and dabbers came👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Been sucking eggs all my life.😂 Never stop learning, Never too old to learn.
Absolutely right Tim👊Thanks for your comment 😎 Cheers
The plasterboard is not passing the steele on the leanto side by the 300 as you said in the begining
The plasterboard is not fitted yet David😉Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Needs to be two laters 12,5 mm plasterboard or one layer of pink
That's right Jeremy👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
Not having a go, just saying
Not according to the white book, 2 layers of grey will only give 1/2 hr FR. 1 layer of fireline using a non gyp-frame fix gives 1/2 hr. Using gypframe system and 1 x 12.5mm fireline gives you 1 hr. The difference between gypliner and 6A or any other metal is nobody knows.
Hi are related to jason statham 😂
Funny you should say that🤔but a mate of my wife got snagged by him when she was younger🤪Cheers Del
turn the 3x2 or 4x2 side on then there is no need for the batton
Hi there🖐How does the underside plasterboard fix to it if done like this🤔Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
we cut a notch out to go around the steel@@thetallcarpenter
@@rbondy008I get you bud👍
This installation is simply wrong for this situation. The steel is an element of structure as defined by the Bldg Regs and it is not purely supporting a roof so therefore needs to be fire protected to 30mins/60mins. The Regs require that the fire casing to the steel is fixed in position with non-combustible grounds that either means fire casing noggins or more simply, metal 'E' clips that clamp onto the steel flanges and light gauge metal straps between. The 'E' clips are a standard plasterboard accessory available from the builders merchant and are quicker than timber to install and don't move like timber noggins when they shrink and all fixings are simply dryline screws.
Also, the Bldg Inspector is wrong to just ask for 300mm of Fireline board to the ceiling adjacent to the steel as the steel will be exposed to a fire that will breach into the ceiling void and attack the steel. The steel should be wrapped on its three sides with Fireline board and the joints around each joist should be sealed with fire proof caulking. The fact that the joists are supported on the bottom flange of the steel creates this problem and usually the preferred structural solution is to sit the joist on the top of the steel, the steel size will have had to be increased to account for the load on the bottom flange. If the ceiling is to be considered as fire protecting the steel then the whole ceiling must be fire-proofed with either Fireline board or two layers of 12.7mm plasterboard. It concerns me that the Bldg Inspector has suggested such a woefully inadequate proposal that flies in the face of sound fire engineering, probably all for the sake of the builder's convenience.
Hi Clive🖐Thanks for watching and your comment😎Cheers
This is exactly right. Fire caulk also known as intumescent mastic. 60mins can be achieved using Gypframe system and 1 skin of 12.5mm(any other fixing system has to be 2 x 12.5mm fireline). the problem being that 1 skin doesn't give you a 1hr fire rating to the ceiling, so in theory the underside of the steel is only 30mins.
tidy .
Cheers bud🤩
You don't need any of that bud, fix the ceiling up first (which you should do anyway), leaving a little 20mm overhang, dab the wall out and trim the corner flush once dabs gone hard 👍
I get exactly what you're saying Ben👍but I guess I like to do as much as I can so the dot and dabbers can get done in one hit as they only do the sticking and I do all the tacking👊Thanks for your comment🤩Cheers Del
But the face is not 90. Its got a bigger gap at the bottom.
Hi there🖐Not sure what you nean😶Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Your drywall gap on the face of the beam is larger at the bottom because of the horizontal board you added, meaning the wall face/corner isn't square.
@evictioncarpentry2628 I'm still not sure what you're out🤔The vertical board will be plumb and the horizontal/ceiling board will be level, meaning they will be perfectly square to each other👍The bottom 'runner' batten is wider than the gap between the back of the plasterboard and the blockwork because the beam is set back 8/10mm.
Bloody Council Building Control officers need to start working from the same book, i was made to remove all my friction fit noggins and according to him i should use the British Gypsum lighweight framing system although i framed in timber but was definitely not allowed to use friction fit noggins neither was i allowed to fit the ends of the floor joists into the web of the steels he insisted that i have a timber bolted through the web of the steel and then use joist hangers screwed to that. Needless to say to say I now use private Building Inspectors who work with you rather than against you as it seems is the norm for local councils
Hi there🖐I can feel the frustration in your comnent bud, and you're quite right that certain details do seem to wanted depending on which inspector you get🤔Thanks for watching and your comment 😎 Cheers Del
What you should do is have longer bolts and bolt timbers into the web of the steels, but what do I know, I've only been doing this 50 years
Hi there🖐Like I said in the video, differently people use different methods to produce the same results👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
The cost of 6x2 compared to a few off cuts lying around, off cuts all day long.
The depth of that internal on the steel is deeper than 50mm, if you bolt a timber in there it won't finish flush with the face of the steel and you'll end up packing it out and all sorts, a lot quicker and easier doing it as shown!
There’s always 1 😂
I've never had a problem doing it as outlined in the video. Nice touch with the 3mm void to allow for expansion 👍
@@andrewhorne808 sorry Andrew this comment wasn’t directed at you it was directed at the top comment, theres always a negative comment ,, think your doing a top job pal 👍
What the heck is plasterboard?!
Hi there🖐Its a Gypsum based material that usually comes in boards12.5mm thick, 1.2 meters wide by 2.4 meters long. Its is screwed to timber or stuck to masonry before being plastered, hence being called, 'plasterboard'👊Cheers Del
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Thanks for watching Richard🤩Cheers
Far to much "waffle" and repetitive speech,and painfully slow.
Not the video for you then Alan🤔Thanks for watching it though👍Cheers Del
No longer compliment with building regs!
How so🤔
Putting this way way old method is so far outdated , it was used everywhere from the 1930s into the 1990s ,however untreated wood is highly flammable so voided any fire wall effectiveness , Now laws / codes increasingly ban this method and require fire resistant materials to be used & Also the infills must be made secure and not just wedged in place , Anyone that follows this ancient make do method would be well advised to get up to date information and requirements first , from your building construction inspectors ,So as to Potentially avoid any inspection issues at a later date
Hi Peter🖐There's nothing wrong with what's been done here to achieve the desired fire resistance👍Thanks for watching 😎 Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter , I never said their was , Only said that untreated scrap wood used in this common way is not fire resistant therefore voids all fire break certification, And that due to ever more rules and codes being mandated for construction requirements by over educated bureaucrats ,that be careful as many inspectors want to see actual documentation certification approvals stating the fire resistant time for all materials used , including methods of fitting and fixture for all hidden materials even when covered up with other fire resistant materials, I have encountered this and it is becoming much more common , the building regulations & requirements for construction is Ever more increasingly following marine & offshore oil industry standards where every item down to nails screws and type of tools even for coveralls must all be 100% of approved certified specification , & certified by a approved body to be Fit for purpose ,Hence every thing used in the construction of a fire wall down to the last nail and or decorative coating must be fully in compliance with the smallest detail , & As many inspectors are only educated book rule followers with Zero common sense or actual Hands on work knowledge or experience they go out of their way to find non compliance , issues , no matter how small that may be , Reality & Fact that is how it is going , That is why I suggested it is best to check the smallest requirements with the relevant authority/department to make sure you do not fall foul of Bureaucracy , Sign of the times ,
@peterg791 Hi Peter🖐Reading your comments and some of the terminology you use, it's clear that you are in the US/Canada where strict adherence to fire protection is markedly different due to much of your buildings being made only of wood therefore making fire a much much great risk to a buildings structure than method we predominantly use here in the UK of masonary block and brick. The reality of the situation such as the one in my video is that, the steel beams and thier relationship to other parts of the buildings are designed by a structural engineer and the appropriate level of fire protection is directed by the Building Inspector so as long as its done to his/her satisfaction there is no inspection to fail. It's debatable whether using timber to fix the fire resistant board to will not give the 30 minutes fire protection required over fixing it to non combustible grounds as its the fire resistant plasterboard that resists the flames/heat and not what it's fixed to. I appreciate you taking the time to write your comments👍Cheers Del
@@thetallcarpenter Hi thanks for the reply , my experience of very Pin Prick construction inspectors is from projects in UK & Europe , True I have had experience of the same issues in both Us & Canadian construction where as you say they are extremely tight on regulations , Most domestic constructions look impressive ,but fact is they are mostly cosmetic and no where even close to the quality of UK European construction ( unless you are talking millions for homes ) have even been asked for certificates of mill testing for steel work in the UK and its fire temperature rise rate , even when it is obviously going to take many hours for the steelwork to reach a temperature that would in any way effectively compromise the integrity , I get younger engineering colleagues asking me almost daily about things like they find some fire resistant materials they have discovered does not have a independent certifying test certificate Only a manufacturing company stating that is compliant and meets relevant codes, And if they can sign off on it , that is how much people lose track of common sense and logic ( yes that really happens ) I have also had several inspectors in the south and East regions of the UK rejecting the method you demonstrated and insisted on the wooden supports get replaced with fire retardant material and securely fixed in place , As for myself I do believe that many codes and regulations are overkill But as the old school fades out the new wave take over they can only see the paper Stats ,and nothing more
@@peterg791 I can't argue with what you're saying Peter, and until such details as you've highlighted in your comments are more rigorously adopted, implemented and ultimately enforced, builders on the 'coal face' are not going to be looking to make more work for themselves than necessary😶 Rest assured, that IF I'm ever asked to clad a beam in strict accordance with any newer regs, I'll be sure to make a video on it👍Cheers Del
Nice one Del , love shared your last vid with the lads we work with 🤙🏽🤙🏽🙌🏽🧱👍🏼
They sharing is caring Steve😘See you soon bud🥳🍻
Hope you recover soon, never easy when you've work to do😢. I broke two in a car crash and worked through it, but being on site theres plenty to laugh about, and thats when it really hurt 😂 👷🪚🔨
Hi Mark🖐I can just about manage to laugh, but I'm dreading it when I need to sneeze😮 Thanks for watching bud 😎 Cheers
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