As a 25 year veteran ironworker ,, from what I can see from the video either the anchor bolts pulled through the bace of the columns or they broke or pulled out….. Over my 25 years in ironwork I worked on several airplane hangers including one for a B2 bomber .. I don’t know the measurements of this hanger , but hangers have a very large span between the two end walls. The back wall doesn’t bare any weight and some don’t even have a back wall but sliding doors on both side’s for through travel. I see in the video the end walls have very light gage steel bace plates , it’s kinda like hanging a weight in the center of a string fasten at both ends ….. In My opinion Anchor bolt failure from miscalculating the gage of bace plate steel , or end beds , X bracing may have been a very big factor also ,,,, I’m also thinking that the erecting crew was very inexperienced because the general Forman or erecting Forman should have caught it , specially if the X bracing wasn’t put in correctly … Shouldn’t have happened,, I truly feel sorrow for the family’s R.I.P
I worked for a company that design/build metal buildings, I can see that the concrete floor has not been poured yet, Most foundations have long rebar hair pins that go around the anchor bolts and extent out into the concrete floor about 15 feet. I think the foundation broke/failed and caused the collapse .
@@edwardlincoln5680 , I was looking at 3:03 5:24 , but you may be right.. if we were there I guarantee we could look around and find out exactly where it went wrong
In the picture you can see that on at least one of the uprights the steel tore and the anchor bolts held, it will be interesting to see the final report.
@@edwardlincoln5680 Look at one of the comments (stephenwest798) below here where he notes the same photo I saw where the anchor bolts in the concrete held/were intact but the column base flange was torn off. That's a general indication that it wasn't a concrete or anchor bolt issue as one would think all the concrete was placed at/about the same time.
Its pretty clear it was a structural failure. I really wish news organizations would go back to reporting facts instead of all of this peripheral nonsense and speculation.
@@treydogg77 do you know that for a fact? It does seem a likely cause I read about another contractor had a bunch of steel trusses set in place and but didn't bolt them down to save time (crane time?) A wind kicked in and took the whole structure down.
Lots of thumb gangsters keep stating this failure was unquestionably wind and the lack of bracing. I’ve seen multiple angles that show all the wall perlins on both end walls, all the roof perlins in place, as well as vertical / lateral and diagonal kickers on the roof I-beams, as well as the diagonal tension cable bracing on multiple bays. The structure didn’t blow over sideways, lengthwise, or diagonally… I’m not speculating as to exactly why, I’ll wait for the investigators findings, but the aftermath shows the span collapsed on itself in one of the most symmetrical failures I’ve ever seen. I’d love to be enlightened, so someone that’s made those claims, please specifically name exactly what missing bracing they’re talking about, BC as a 35 year, second generation GC, my company has built several similar hangars (shorter span 120’ and under) and we’re in Central FL with 130 MPH and up wind rating requirements. The required bracing on the buildings that we received from at least 4 different building manufacturers / Engineers (Butler, Rigid Global, Gen. Steel and CECO) looked almost identical to these. JS
@@jimarcher5255 Thanks Jim. sEnsorshiip From YuuToob is out of control. I responded to U last night using 1 of my G-Paws favorite expressions… saying the equivalent about mysel that “Even an optically challenged, furry tailed rodent can find a kernel once in a while” and it was completely deleted. 😳 The fUrst Amend. doesn’t mean “they” have the right or authority to control the specific word choice of others. Yet I’m paying for Premium service and that’s the reality. I can imagine a “Class Action” coming soon.
Late reply: If this were Facebook, I'd post a meme (to them, not to you) that says something to the effect of, "Everyone out of the way. The Facebook accident investigators have arrived." In any case, The week before this happened, Boise had bitter cold and a fair amount of snow. For a couple of days before this happened, the outside temps were in the 60s. There is concern that this may have affected something, but alas, I'm not an engineer, so I won't say that it did or did not affect anything in this case.
Those beams were very thin and would have needed X bracing top and bottom. Looking at the way the beams are folded there was insufficient horizontal bracing. my two pennorth.
Lots of speculation, and I'll add mine. With reports of heavy winds, side loads on those beams would be significant. They are probably NOT designed for that as the hanger when completed is going to be sheathed. The sheathing is going to unify the side loads and even stiffen the structure. But, while open it's going to be vulnerable to heavy winds. So, my guess is that if the structure stood long enough to be sheathed it would have met design specs. And lasted for decades. The problem being that it was not designed for wind loads while under construction. I suspect that some wire rope to minimize side deflection would have prevented this collapse. So, going forward similar designs should either have more permanent cross bracing, or temporary bracing until the skin is in place. Once again, speculation based on limited facts and some common sense. I am not a licensed engineer.
Years ago I erected a Varco-Pruden 180 ft clear-span metal building in Nigeria similar to this structure. It seems apparent that the ridge joint bolts failed, probably because that connection hadn't been completely bolted up during the initial erection process in an effort to get the cranes off the site as quickly as possible because they charge by the hour. The rafter girder connections stayed joined even after the ridge hit the ground, demonstrating they were fully connected, probably as units on the ground before the assembled rafters were hoisted on each side and only partially connected at the ridge before moving to the next bent. This was probably an non-union job, and the ironworkers didn't have the power or even the experience to insist that the job be done properly. Haste makes waste.
These are my thought also. I’ve seen similar steel erection work this way “Loose”bolts the rafters in place with follow up crew completes the bolting operation and torque the bolts. Not saying this crew did this but my own crews certainly did. There are risks as the structure design depends on everything in place even including the sheets for strength.
@@jimarcher5255 It's not going to take OSHA long to notice a few bolts stretched past their yield strength and a lot of empty bolt holes in each ridge connection. Two large cranes holding up each assembled rafter while the connection is made costs maybe $1,000 per hour, so you can bet the connectors were getting shouted at through a megaphone "What's taking so f**king long????". Whenever the crane(s) are on a job, it's always a**holes and elbows for the whole raising gang. I doubt this outfit owned two rigs big enough to hoist those rafters, so it's a good bet they were from a crane rental company charging by the hour.
Only seven OSHA violations in ten years, that is nothing. The types of violations were the ones that occur when workers are in areas before the safety measures are completed. Those were just an OSHA inspector trying to make his quota. There were NO, ZERO, NADA injuries from the violations.
This is very sad for those involved, and their families. Some times our mistakes are written in blood. These are just my observation's on what is available to look at on RUclips, and other sources. Anyone who has moved a small single IPE beam 100X150X6000mm by hand will note how it wobbles, and twists. These frames have deep vertical sections. So they will flop around when lifted into position. Hence all the bracing across the frames. They are very vulnerable until they are fully braced, and skinned. Some of the camera shots show the footings on the uprights that have, either peeled back steel with the fasteners still attached to the concrete footings. Or the heads of the fasteners pulled out. When the structure failed. Usually you have a large foot plate attached to each upright. And these are bolted to substantial foundation bolts. I do not like this design, because enormous loads are placed on the fasteners/welds, on the outside of the upright connections. And because of the load/force paths at the transition point on top of the uprights.
Dredging up old OSHA violations is pretty pathetic. This is an example of extremely poor news reporting. The OSHA violations the reporter brought up have ZERO bearing on the real story. What caused the structural collapse? I promise you it wasn't because someone didn't know how to operate an extension ladder.
Not engineer. I’ve erected many similar hangars. Done it 40 years I bet it was erector not installing all flange braces, bolts or X braces. That hangar was designed for snow load. Erector probably in a hurry to get cranes out to save $$
Could’ve been anything from some new design flaw. Did you see how the base plates were peeled off the bottom of those pork chop collumns? At the weld shear zone? Vertically to the web? Comes down to design, flaw and miscalculation of weight load to crane capacity. Somebody forgot to add the decimal point.
Ya uplift bracing, X-bracing, welded bracing, sag, rods, or what we call the hog rods for the base rods in the end, wall bays and the center bays of the of the roof purloins .
Sounds like the building took the crane with it, not the crane guy's fault.
As a 25 year veteran ironworker ,, from what I can see from the video either the anchor bolts pulled through the bace of the columns or they broke or pulled out….. Over my 25 years in ironwork I worked on several airplane hangers including one for a B2 bomber .. I don’t know the measurements of this hanger , but hangers have a very large span between the two end walls. The back wall doesn’t bare any weight and some don’t even have a back wall but sliding doors on both side’s for through travel. I see in the video the end walls have very light gage steel bace plates , it’s kinda like hanging a weight in the center of a string fasten at both ends ….. In My opinion Anchor bolt failure from miscalculating the gage of bace plate steel , or end beds , X bracing may have been a very big factor also ,,,, I’m also thinking that the erecting crew was very inexperienced because the general Forman or erecting Forman should have caught it , specially if the X bracing wasn’t put in correctly … Shouldn’t have happened,, I truly feel sorrow for the family’s R.I.P
I worked for a company that design/build metal buildings, I can see that the concrete floor has not been poured yet, Most foundations have long rebar hair pins that go around the anchor bolts and extent out into the concrete floor about 15 feet. I think the foundation broke/failed and caused the collapse .
@@edwardlincoln5680 , I was looking at 3:03 5:24 , but you may be right.. if we were there I guarantee we could look around and find out exactly where it went wrong
In the picture you can see that on at least one of the uprights the steel tore and the anchor bolts held, it will be interesting to see the final report.
I bet the contractor was the lowest bidder.
@@edwardlincoln5680 Look at one of the comments (stephenwest798) below here where he notes the same photo I saw where the anchor bolts in the concrete held/were intact but the column base flange was torn off. That's a general indication that it wasn't a concrete or anchor bolt issue as one would think all the concrete was placed at/about the same time.
Its pretty clear it was a structural failure. I really wish news organizations would go back to reporting facts instead of all of this peripheral nonsense and speculation.
It was not the building/manufacture error. It was a lack of bracing during const.
@@treydogg77 do you know that for a fact? It does seem a likely cause
I read about another contractor had a bunch of steel trusses set in place and but didn't bolt them down to save time (crane time?) A wind kicked in and took the whole structure down.
@@treydogg77
Maybe. Again, that's speculation.
It could have also been a Crane Failure... it could have been not 100% and broke.
@@sparkie951
Absolutely no way. That is the best crane company around.
Lots of thumb gangsters keep stating this failure was unquestionably wind and the lack of bracing. I’ve seen multiple angles that show all the wall perlins on both end walls, all the roof perlins in place, as well as vertical / lateral and diagonal kickers on the roof I-beams, as well as the diagonal tension cable bracing on multiple bays. The structure didn’t blow over sideways, lengthwise, or diagonally… I’m not speculating as to exactly why, I’ll wait for the investigators findings, but the aftermath shows the span collapsed on itself in one of the most symmetrical failures I’ve ever seen. I’d love to be enlightened, so someone that’s made those claims, please specifically name exactly what missing bracing they’re talking about, BC as a 35 year, second generation GC, my company has built several similar hangars (shorter span 120’ and under) and we’re in Central FL with 130 MPH and up wind rating requirements. The required bracing on the buildings that we received from at least 4 different building manufacturers / Engineers (Butler, Rigid Global, Gen. Steel and CECO) looked almost identical to these. JS
You sir are correct.
@@jimarcher5255 Thanks Jim. sEnsorshiip From YuuToob is out of control. I responded to U last night using 1 of my G-Paws favorite expressions… saying the equivalent about mysel that “Even an optically challenged, furry tailed rodent can find a kernel once in a while” and it was completely deleted. 😳 The fUrst Amend. doesn’t mean “they” have the right or authority to control the specific word choice of others. Yet I’m paying for Premium service and that’s the reality. I can imagine a “Class Action” coming soon.
Late reply: If this were Facebook, I'd post a meme (to them, not to you) that says something to the effect of, "Everyone out of the way. The Facebook accident investigators have arrived."
In any case, The week before this happened, Boise had bitter cold and a fair amount of snow. For a couple of days before this happened, the outside temps were in the 60s. There is concern that this may have affected something, but alas, I'm not an engineer, so I won't say that it did or did not affect anything in this case.
Those beams were very thin and would have needed X bracing top and bottom. Looking at the way the beams are folded there was insufficient horizontal bracing. my two pennorth.
Lots of speculation, and I'll add mine.
With reports of heavy winds, side loads on those beams would be significant. They are probably NOT designed for that as the hanger when completed is going to be sheathed. The sheathing is going to unify the side loads and even stiffen the structure. But, while open it's going to be vulnerable to heavy winds. So, my guess is that if the structure stood long enough to be sheathed it would have met design specs. And lasted for decades. The problem being that it was not designed for wind loads while under construction. I suspect that some wire rope to minimize side deflection would have prevented this collapse.
So, going forward similar designs should either have more permanent cross bracing, or temporary bracing until the skin is in place.
Once again, speculation based on limited facts and some common sense. I am not a licensed engineer.
Was there wind blowing? Was all the bracing installed?
Was the steel the right quality for the structure?
Lots of questions... 😮
Very high winds all day. Probably 30mph at the airport.
Add to that how well trained and skilled and safety oriented are the workers.
Years ago I erected a Varco-Pruden 180 ft clear-span metal building in Nigeria similar to this structure. It seems apparent that the ridge joint bolts failed, probably because that connection hadn't been completely bolted up during the initial erection process in an effort to get the cranes off the site as quickly as possible because they charge by the hour. The rafter girder connections stayed joined even after the ridge hit the ground, demonstrating they were fully connected, probably as units on the ground before the assembled rafters were hoisted on each side and only partially connected at the ridge before moving to the next bent. This was probably an non-union job, and the ironworkers didn't have the power or even the experience to insist that the job be done properly. Haste makes waste.
Experience speaks.
These are my thought also. I’ve seen similar steel erection work this way “Loose”bolts the rafters in place with follow up crew completes the bolting operation and torque the bolts. Not saying this crew did this but my own crews certainly did. There are risks as the structure design depends on everything in place even including the sheets for strength.
@@jimarcher5255 It's not going to take OSHA long to notice a few bolts stretched past their yield strength and a lot of empty bolt holes in each ridge connection. Two large cranes holding up each assembled rafter while the connection is made costs maybe $1,000 per hour, so you can bet the connectors were getting shouted at through a megaphone "What's taking so f**king long????". Whenever the crane(s) are on a job, it's always a**holes and elbows for the whole raising gang. I doubt this outfit owned two rigs big enough to hoist those rafters, so it's a good bet they were from a crane rental company charging by the hour.
@@phillipdavidhaskett7513 Be interesting to see how it pays out but I think you’re dead on. Sounds like we both have been there and just lucked out.
What an enormous setback for Jackson Jet Center.
Only seven OSHA violations in ten years, that is nothing.
The types of violations were the ones that occur when workers are in areas before the safety measures are completed.
Those were just an OSHA inspector trying to make his quota.
There were NO, ZERO, NADA injuries from the violations.
This is kind of which came first... The Chicken or the Egg... Did the structure break the Crane or did the Crane break the structure?
That *is* a key question.
big D Fbook page shows similar hangar but with truss member for roof structure...possibly someone did not make the switch for buckling restraint
This is on the crane company not the general contractor
The investigation has just begun.
I saw the hangar from the freeway on January 9th , it didn't look structurally sound to me !!
You said that they have been in business since 1996. There sign indicated 1964? Family legal things I guess?
This is very sad for those involved, and their families.
Some times our mistakes are written in blood.
These are just my observation's on what is available to look at on RUclips, and other sources.
Anyone who has moved a small single IPE beam 100X150X6000mm by hand will note how it wobbles, and twists.
These frames have deep vertical sections. So they will flop around when lifted into position. Hence all the bracing across the frames.
They are very vulnerable until they are fully braced, and skinned.
Some of the camera shots show the footings on the uprights that have, either peeled back steel with the fasteners still attached to the concrete footings. Or the heads of the fasteners pulled out. When the structure failed. Usually you have a large foot plate attached to each upright. And these are bolted to substantial foundation bolts.
I do not like this design, because enormous loads are placed on the fasteners/welds, on the outside of the upright connections.
And because of the load/force paths at the transition point on top of the uprights.
Dredging up old OSHA violations is pretty pathetic. This is an example of extremely poor news reporting. The OSHA violations the reporter brought up have ZERO bearing on the real story. What caused the structural collapse? I promise you it wasn't because someone didn't know how to operate an extension ladder.
Arrest the engineers for a crappy design. No side support at all in the middle of the beams. Of coarse they were going to buckle sideways.
Not that simple, time will tell, obviously someone screwed up.
@@portnuefflyer Sorry, but it could be that simple. I blame the engineers on this one.
Not engineer. I’ve erected many similar hangars. Done it 40 years I bet it was erector not installing all flange braces, bolts or X braces. That hangar was designed for snow load. Erector probably in a hurry to get cranes out to save $$
Could’ve been anything from some new design flaw. Did you see how the base plates were peeled off the bottom of those pork chop collumns? At the weld shear zone? Vertically to the web? Comes down to design, flaw and miscalculation of weight load to crane capacity. Somebody forgot to add the decimal point.
Ya uplift bracing, X-bracing, welded bracing, sag, rods, or what we call the hog rods for the base rods in the end, wall bays and the center bays of the of the roof purloins .
Typically engineered building site prep and erection process is standardized. Wonder what OSHA will determine is the ultimate cause.
those OSHA complaints listed are just employees doing stupid things
Probably failure of cheap Chinese made anchor bolts that secured the main columns!!
Those bolts do not hold up the structure against the beams breaking in the middle, as seems to have happened here.
Don’t know what the fuss is, businesses always regulate themselves best. Just ask Boeing….
Reese robins?😅
let the finger pointing begin.
Was this a union ironworkers job?
No.
In Idaho, Republican paradise? Of course not.
THE CRANE CO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN ATTEMPT SUCH A PROJECT WITH SCRAP METALS.
Can anybody say Chinese steel/anchors? Just saying………
That's what happens in Republican paradises like Idaho when you deregulate safety standards. Cutting corners, the true capitalist way
They all cut corners
@@rockofagesusa7942 Not like right to work states
I blame Chy Nah.
Right to starve state! @@mikeprice4103
Looks like a poor building design to me.