When building a 2 channel audio system, there are so many variables. When visiting other people's homes, and listening to their system, the three biggest variables I notice are: speaker placement, room treatment, and the quality of the recordings being listened to. Sometimes I identify a piece of equipment that is suspect, but that is usually not the case. While I think having quality audio components and cables is very important, there is also a diminishing return that happens at a surprisingly affordable cost. In other words, spending more money on cables may not offer as much improvement in sound quality over better speaker placement, room treatment, and choosing expertly mastered/mixed recordings. There is also the subjective test: If you close your eyes, and listen to a recording on your system, and you are overwhelmed with the sensation that the musician or vocalist is in the room, playing or singing to you personally - then you have to ask yourself, can it get any better than this? When the illusion comes across as completely real, perhaps no more improvements are needed. It's a good way to know when to stop swapping out components and cables.
Being dismissive of a product purely because of its price is puerile and callow. No doubt, the prices on a lot of things can seem outlandish to the average individual. This extends beyond the audio industry as well. That doesn't however prove anything at all. There is no empirical evidence backing the "It's expensive, thereby it must be bullsh%#" mindset.
Chris, great video. As a group, we audiophiles need to chill and be respectful of each other. Do what makes you happy, period. I really liked the wine analogy. Thank you.
Can't agree with you more in your sentiments! This is a great video, and audiophiles should be a little more respectful of differencing opinions. They are after all, opinions. (Except for Chris liking the evil team from up north, that is inexcusable. :D )
Sadly though, the wines did not, I am sure, measure the same! There was no measurement of the chemical characteristics of the wines. It is the chemical characteristics that affect the taste, that make it taste as it does. I'd be very surprised I'd the oenologists who made the wines, designed the flavour profiles, did not measure them. I'd also expect that these winemakers designed a flavour profile to suit their price and production constraints while appealing to a carefully defined market segment. That's exactly what professional loudspeaker manufacturers do. Just as competent and professional electronics designers do with all the items in the audio chain. The best that one might say is that not all manufacturers and reviewers can or do perform all the testing that can be done. Just as our host did not do in his comparison of his wines. The tests are available, he chose not to make the measurements.
The issue many people have with cable advocates isn't with the consumers but with the manufacturers. Specifically when manufactures make claims they can't back up. If a wine company claimed their wine made food taste better than other wines or their wine had health benefits that other brands didn't, then that's a problem. Preferences doesn't equal better. I prefer red to white, you won't hear me saying red is better.
Hey Chris! It was an absolute pleasure having you in town to see what we have going on down here! I hope we'll get to see ya again soon enough! Keep up the excellent work! 👏
Good for you Hobbs. I'd love to come visit you guys when we visit friends in Houston (who are looking to move up to Fort Worth, which is a bit closer). I'd tried to encourage Gene from Audioholics and Amir from ASR to take up Danny's invite on RUclips comments, but Neither seems to be interested, sadly. I wrote Danny with their replies and he wrote me back.
Dogma always scares me, so I completely appreciate your reasoned discussion of this topic. I have, indeed, found cables to make a difference. Where I usually struggle, however, is with the justification for esoteric cables that cost any more than around 5-10% of the price of the component they are being connected to. Anything beyond that and you can almost assuredly gain far more sonic improvement by spending that money on upgrading your components, especially speakers, than any real or perceived improvement that the cables make. Nevertheless, we all choose to allocate our resources differently. So how arrogant must we be to believe that our allocation choices are “right” and someone else’s are “wrong”? It’s unfortunate that the other RUclipsrs have chosen to decline, some of them rather discourteously, Danny’s hospitality. You took him at face value and came out of this experience better for it. I look forward to your next installment. Keep it up!
1st. I'd like say great video.....I really respect how you present your thoughts here 2nd. Any one who says they can hear a difference on youtube should just do a double blind test live and prove it. Danny promised to do one and it never happened. 3rd. The wine comparison lost me. Of course wines tasted different but they would measure differences as well. Chemical analysis would reveal the difference you tasted. The people that claim to taste differences in wines are called sommeliers. Sommeliers can taste all the subtle differences in wines but have to go through extensive training, testing and certification to back it up. 4th. Sonograms routinely use sound to create extremely detailed images. Those microphones are definitely better than the human ear and literally tell the "entire picture". Measurements can hear everything that "YOU CAN" and more in ultra sonics. Finally....Im not a believer or nonbeliever in cables but we can put all of the arguments to rest if all the people that claim to hear the differences would prove it just like a sommelier does. Thanks for the video.
@@thevinylattack I'm on the same wavelength regarding the analysis of music versus sound, which is why I think it's safe to say we all neglect the importance of our brains. Our ears are super, but they are only receivers. The real magic happens in the gray matter. Cheers. Love the beard!
"It depends"... LOL! Nice. Come on, Chris, make a decision, man. My personal take - Yes, they do. To a point. And then things get out of control. Spending multiple thousands of dollars on cabling to support a mid-fi plus system is straight up misappropriation of funds, in my opinion. There is no value in that. I think common sense and perspective should be applied when pairing components to infrastructure. But as always, people should be free to do whatever they feel is best for their system and Hi-Fi experience. BTW, I tried the speaker cable riser experiment - I didn't hear a difference. However, I have seen some deployments that at least created an interesting aesthetic. That alone could be worth it! Again, whatever works for people.
From my personal point of view, I have long come to the conclusion that cables do make a difference, but are often negligible at best for the majority of us with affordable set ups. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. You can spend 100$ on one cable and spend 30$ on another and hear no difference at all. Yet, in some cases, you can hear a difference between two different 30$ cables quite clearly. Price does in no way automatically equate to increase in sound quality here, but if you are capable of doing the testing yourself, you can find the right cable for you at the right price. If you can't hear a difference? That's ok! Save the money, but that does not automatically discount the idea that some cables provide better sound than others. It really depends on your system, the shielding design of the cables, the length, whether the copper is solid or stranded, etc. I could keep going. You can especially notice differences with cables that often have the shield grounded at only one end when flipping the cable around. SKW cables are a good budget example of this. So yes, I do believe cables matter. The sad part is that a lot of those who say they don't - also believe that balanced designs are automatically better than single ended counter parts. I'd love to be proven wrong!
That's an interesting take on it, and I think you're very possibly close to the mark. I can't help thinking that the cables question is one where there is potentially some truth in it and there are honest sellers out there, but it's been exploited by some unscrupulous sellers pushing things to ludicrous financial extremes.
I have to agree with most of what you said. I've never heard of SKW cables, but just looked them up. I discovered and love Blue Jean cables for their quality to cost ratio and they're made in Seattle, WA.
@@osliverpool If you were a hifi cable manufacturer knowing some people will pay ANY amount of money for a cable. Wouldn't you set the prices accordingly? 😉 Leaving snake oil behind I suggest anyone interested to just order 5 cheap cables of different brands and test them at home. Keep the one you like the best and then order a bunch more of said cable, use them in your stereo system and be happy knowing that price has actually little to do with how good the cable is.
Many thanks Chris! This is exactly what we need today and in the future: dealing and speaking with each other should be respectful and kind. Anonymity in social media has encouraged less confident and embittered people (and not only those) to show their hate, malevolence and grudge in outrageous manners. Let me quote the great Denzel Washington: ""With so many things coming back in style, I can't wait until morals, respect and intelligence become a trend again." Plus, of course the "audiophile" statement is very true. Everybody decides for themselves if they like or dislike the sound of music as it is....no judgement here, only sometimes helpful suggestions to open eyes....or ears....
If you care about what is actually true, you have to do proper blindtests. This video has nothing but more claims. It's not that difficult: if you hear a difference, you should hear it in a blindtest too.
If the differences are that minor it doesn't matter...listening to reproduced sound is simply a subjective experience. So...it really can't be measured and for something that costs scammer type, ridiculously high prices. So...yes there are companies who will prey on this. I've been in the wine business for 35 years and have attended hundreds of tastings. One of the most important was a technical tasting that involved nine retailers, two wine makers and one sommelier. We were tasting six French Grand Cru wines. Unknown to us was a Reserve Napa wine of the same vintage and varietal that had a false French wine label on it. Everyone at the table was wrong about this wine except for the sommelier. Just by virtue of seeing a French label none of these experienced people were able to discern any difference. All of your senses are I/O devices that transmit information to the brain where it is decoded and only one was able to discern the very slight differences that allowed him to know it wasn't a French wine. I won't go into the details on how a very educated person along with a great palate and nose can ferret out large amounts of factual information about a wine but that is something only one in a million humans can do. All it took was a label which is virtual information from your eyes to cause the brain to change the smell and aromas in your head to taste better or just different. Keep that in mind about your system. Everyone will swear they hear a difference but only one percent will actually know and with most of the audiophiles who can afford the tens of thousands of dollars for the finest of cables all around from power source to interconnects to speaker cables they are generally older and have lost a considerable amount of their hearing ability..so...who really cares but the companies who make huge profits and the people who are not "Sommeliers" of Sound and but have fooled themselves into believing it. Spend your money on the components that matter sources, speakers and preamps and amplifiers. You can then afford to buy a house for your favorite lady and still listen to great music on an awesome system.
The wine reference was spot on, some years ago they did a double blind test with wine connoisseurs and contrary to popular belief none of them choose the same wine as the best. Tastebuds are like ears, no two are the same so choose the system that sounds good to you and quit trying to keep up with the joneses.
The wine reference shows that you both don't seem to know much about wine, how it's made and why wines of the same grape variety can be very different. Now this is of course not a crime, but otoh it really isn't a very good example in the given context. Because even if wine critics chose different wines as their personal favorites, they usually agree on which wines are well made and which ones aren't. Since this is not a matter of personal taste, but of quality levels in the production process of wine and you can taste that. And besides, certainly are not all wines "made the same way". This would be like saying all amps are electric devices that do the same thing, so they all are the same and you would hopefully agree that this is not the case, right? Actually maybe it IS a good example, because it kind of proves Danny's point quite well about being well educated on topics that you want to speak about. Maybe the Coppola family can issue an invitation for you and you could learn some more about wine, it's actually an interesting topic and exploring it is about as much fun as exploring audio. And the two go very well together. ;-)
I used to test the signals of multi million dollar telecommunication equipment. Most everything is measurable. Soldered cable measures different from not soldered cable. Heavily soldered cable measures different from lightly soldered cable. The same cable with a silver solder vs a lead solder measures differently. The same conductors with different outer shield materials measure differently. A cable with 1/10 inch puncture in the outer-shield fails the test. People who say cables are not measurable, you are either using a toy for the measurement or you have no idea whatsoever.
Hi there. I'm in the same business as you are; telecommunication. And as I agree with most of what you said, I can't see connection between miles long telecom cables caring bandwidth 5MHz to 3GHz vs. few ft long audio cables barley doing 20Hz to 30kHz. Only thing that matters is an dielectric material used in cables as it's directly related to VoP. Soldering? What would be the difference? 0.001dB? It is audible? No... cheers
Thank you. I was also suspect that cables make a difference until.... I had been a closet audiophile most of my life. I had a subscription to Stereophile off and on for 30 years. On my 50th birthday, my wife said, let's get you an audio system. After a day listening to systems, I had my wife come in and give me her opinion. She is not an audiophile. In fact, she says she's heard several very expensive systems in her life before she met me and was never impressed. Her reaction to each setup was very interesting. She couldn't listen to a Prima Luna tube amp because she said the bass wasn't natural and it made her heart feel like it would skip. When we got down to the final selection, Randy said let's switch out the Red Dawn for the Blue Heaven speaker cables. He changed one speaker and while I set myself to try my best to hear a differeence, my wife spoke-up and said, change it back, that is horrible. It was at this point that Randy (the owner of the shop) said, her hearing is better than yours and mine. Admittedly, I could not hear a difference as drastic as my wife could. To me, I would need more time to try and discern maybe a slight difference where to my wife the difference was tremendously obvious. And note, she has no horse in this race. She likes to listen to music that makes her dance, she in no way shares my passion for music. Personally, I believe you need a minimum threshold for most wires and cables to be safe. Beyond that, if you can hear a difference and your purchase makes you happy, be happy! Hell, I just got some really nice custom headphone cables that are really expensive. Did I get them because I think they will make my headphones sound better? Yes, because the cables that come with headphones by default SUCK - looking at you Hifiman. But did I need to spend as much as I did - God no. I did it because I like the person that makes them and they are a total work of art. They make me happy just looking at them and holding them. So do I doubt some people can hear things others can't. No, I live with it every day. She can also smell things I can't and do I say she's wrong or take her word for it and go take a shower? I'm still married so you know which one I chose.
OK, in general I agree with you about the immaturity of the discourse. But it was Danny first who was calling people flat earthers, clueless and other nice names if they don't think cables have an effect...
@@9mmmike642 Agreed! Pretty sure Danny‘s comments have always been in response to rude naysayers. But I could be wrong and that’s OK. Not everybody has to be right all the time. Something a lot of people in this hobby forget.
Be that as it may, I'm not doing it here and I don't want others doing it either. We can certainly have polite discussions about our differences and that's my goal.
Back in the late 80s, I had an audiophile friend who had an amazing system. He had turned his 2 1/2-car garage into a listening room and he built his speakers, crossovers, and much of his equipment himself. To this day it’s probably the finest system I’ve ever heard in a personal home. One day he calls me up to say he’s got new cables and wants me to come over and have a listen. So I go to his house and his system sounded amazing still and he showed me the cables he made. They were cheap wire that he bought at the Home Depot. We then decided to go to my house and see how they sounded on my system. I had some much more expensive (by the standard of the day) Monster cable on a pair of Apogee Duettas. We put his cables on the Duettas and the lower end on my system just disappeared and the upper end was thin. What sounded great on his system did not sound great on mine. We then took my cables back to his house to swap them out in his system and his system was diminished. So there you have it. Expensive cables vs cheap cables were entirely dependent on the system you put them in. Money guaranteed nothing. But there was a difference!
@@thevinylattack If you are ever escaping the frozen tundra in Sunny S Florida, you are welcome to stop by, have beer, sip some rum and check out whatever system(s) I have at the time. I even have a turntable (currently a Technics SL1200 MK II) which I use infrequently.
I learned a long time ago that once you hit a certain level the quality of the recording makes or breaks the experience. You can have $100k invested but a shitty recording stays a shitty recording.
I may be on my own here but I have always felt this topic is win, win. If I can't hear a difference in cables then great, I don;t have to spend money on them. If I can, then great. I get a system that sounds better to me. I win either way. Why people care or don't care if people spend money or don't spend money on cables is beyond me. It isn't your money or your setup. Let people do what makes them happy.
WOW. Finally someone who handled this “CRAZY SITUATION” correctly!! Good for you!!! I too was in the camp that “almost” all cables sounded the same until I heard the difference for myself. I had been brainwashed that good quality cables were all that one needed to transfer the signal regardless of analog or digital throughout the chain. It does not surprise me that you also heard a difference with the cable risers as there are far too many people that use them. I have never heard a difference but I admit I haven’t ever tinkered with them either.
I’ve heard differences in single ended cables, USB and speaker cables. I haven’t heard any difference in balanced cables vs other balanced cables. That being said, the differences were small and higher priced cables weren’t necessarily better, just different
The key take away for me is that you use the word "difference" over and over. If you can't quantify these differences as definitive improvements then the changes are small enough not to matter, at least to me. I recently saw a RUclips vid where an audio club tested self made $15 speaker cables vs proprietary multi thousand dollar cables in blind tests. The results were quite random with as many testers preferring the inexpensive cables to the uber high dollar ones. There's a reason we call it "psycho acoustics" as the mind plays as big, or maybe even a bigger, role in what we hear as our ears. To be scientifically valid results must be reliably repeatable- anything less means we're just guessing. Interesting topic though.
As you say, different isn't always an improvement. They are indeed small changes. The results were repeatable in my experience and always have been in the case of cables.
Well said. A little civility in a world severely lacking. As for me, too much time on the firing line, too many rock festivals... Tinnitus has robbed me of the ability to discern small differences in audio. Happily, that means I'm fine with my $25 amazon speaker cables, and I've no reason to fight my grandkids for their tinker toys :D
I'm more or less in the same boat. Tinnitus from my war, and old age,(in my 70's). But it can't really hurt to try, especially with, and without my hearing aids,(Govt. Issue). My cd collection is around 600, so I'm definitely a music buff. But I can't say I'm an audiophile because of my hearing.
An audiophile is just a person who's passionate about music and stereos. It has nothing to do with budget, hearing, or a certain 'level' of gear. If you count yourself amongst the audiophiles, you most certainly are.
It depends, could not agree more, I am one that can not hear the difference but I wish I could. Everyone’s hearing is different. For example I study music always have for years and years. My music teacher, can listen to a piece, say it is in this key, they are playing this kind of chord in this inversion. Sure I can tell a Major from a Minor by ear, but I could not tell you if it is a D or a E, to me they are just higher or lower pitched. So that is on my hearing and the way my brain processes the input. Point 2 I don’t think I have ever had could enough equipment that cables would make that much difference. Point 3 and to your point, dang age, yes I am 66, have had my hearing tested, and I now have a roll off at 8K bummer, but what are you going to do. Long and short, I do believe there are people that can hear the difference, I wish I was one, but sadly I am not.
It takes a great deal of maturity to admit a physical shortcoming with such grace and a lack of animosity. Well done, sir. I'm sure you enjoy your music all the same and that, in the end, is the real goal.
Great video. If cables are now your bottleneck, you must have quite a set-up. I have expensive cables and was going to buy more for my second set-up in my office when I stopped and asked myself what I was doing. I realized that I wasn't listening to music anymore. I was listening to my sound system. I ended up buying just decent cables and respected the sound that was coming out for what it was,, music. I pretty much gave up on searching for sound ( I have a more than decent set-up) and began spending that money towards records that I thought too expensive when I was spending 2k on a Zu Denon cartridges ;)
My 35 years of high end experience and diy, good sound of cables is keeping the electronic amps, sources and so on from getting sidetracked from signal by their inadequacies related to their length. speaker cables: most people think about resistance, some about capacitance. My experience is: The main problem is the low impedance of some 2 to 8 ohms, which is an all in all low value. Cable impedance in this low type of speaker impedance is affecting the signal of the negative feedback line inside the amp, mostly in frequencies far above 50kHz. Some amps get a bit on the unstable side depending on the type of cable (esp. high capacity cable like coax) because the output coil (if there is any) and the Zobel filter are not able to get rid of all of these HF-signals. So there is a small affect on the sound left. See the cable and the amp as a whole, the cable affects the feedback line of the differential input in the amp. That system amp/cable is what makes different sounds. To solve this special relationship of a special type of amp and a special type of cable with a special length, you can spend a lifetime. Every time you change cable or amp, you can start from the beginning. Only systematics and some basic knowledge help, especially because some cable producers make fancy plugs and covers, but the don‘t tell you basic electric values of their cables. Try to find out capacitance per mtr/ft of some cables from well regarded companies! In most cases you won‘t or have to measure for yourself. line cables: most line amp output stages (sources, preamps) are not low impedance enough (most cases 50ohms to 2kohms) not to be affected by phase shifts of cable impedance (in most cases cable capacity). When using a high impedance output source or pre, try a low capacity cable first. The lowest capacity cable I know are the dnm two wire cables. With a preamp with could drive a loudspeaker by pushing 1000mA in a cable, the different cable sound of different cables beginns to fade. Digital cable: this is all a question of keeping the impedance of 50/75/100 ohms from the last active electrical part inside the source device to the first active electrical part inside the following device. A wrong cable, a wrong plug or socket, a wrong soldering, a torn cable? Back to start! It‘s 100% physics and calculation + good craftsmanship + care… otherwise you have reflections of signal in the connection. This is audible.
You put into words what I've been trying to for a long time. Excellent video, well spoken, and yes, let's respect differing views on topics like this. It's supposed to be fun! Today I was playing around with different styli for my basic Audio Technica AT-VM series, the elliptical, nude elliptical, and shibata; they all sound a bit different and excel at different things. Very fun and rewarding. I have a pair of GR Research speakers, which I've spent a lot of time setting up so I can really hear the depth, height, and width beyond the speakers soundstage, without losing the vital center image. Makes it so much easier to find the details that make a difference, and it acutely increases the listening enjoyment.
Hear! Hear! I’ve never understood how something so innocuous could generate so much animosity. This is such a subjective hobby with limitless permutations of equipment. I just can’t see how a personal choice can cause all this fuss. Especially when there are real issues at stake like choosing between silver or black finishes.
Great video and analysis. I sold audio back in the 80's. Since then and being an audiophile I have always felt cables were somewhat subjective. I personally believe they can make some difference but as you said it depends. It depends on many factors. Personally I have always bought well made cables that were affordable to match the cost of my equipment. It doesn't make sense to me to put more money into my cables than into my equipment. I think you have find a balance. That being said, why would you buy really expensive gear and use the least expensive cables. My analogy would be, don't put retreads on a new Corvette. Put capable tires, but it doesn't necessarily need to be the most expensive available either.
Tools (that aren't your ears) have limited usefulness in determining what registers w/ you as a music listener. None of the testing equipment in the presentations I've seen can tell the difference between a cello and a clarinet or even a B3 organ and a Strat. Most casual music listeners can spot the differences between these instruments in a second or two with almost no conscious effort. It's also generally very easy for people to tell difference between a well recorded instrument and one that was poorly recorded. The measurements held up by "objective" reviewers often miss the boat where it matters most, as a result their ill informed conclusions about music reproduction miss the mark.
I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but it definitely makes sense to me that anything that can affect the electromagnetic field in or around the signal path could therefore affect the sound.
Spot on comment on cables. I think people are just too loyal to their camp to try it. Personally, no. No cable swap will have a tremendous impact, as a speaker swap for example (at least not if you’re swapping between the two opposites of the quality table). But there are differences to be heard. The law of diminishing returns apply heavily on the cable topic IMO, but if you’re chasing that last 0,1% improvement, maybe that’s something you want to look into. I try to get decent cables, but I won’t spend thousands on them… there are too many records missing from my collection to spend that kind of money on cables 😜
When you having a system over 100K you really start to notice very significant changes in cables. When I had a 5k system I didn't notice anything no matter what I tried.
Wow, what an incredible video. I've always liked a lot of what Danny says and I think he really didn't come across that well in "the video", but he's otherwise a really kind and knowledgeable guy. Most of what he says makes total sense to me. And kudos for you for actually going there with an open mind. Awesome all around.
My ears are now old & roll off at 12K hz & I’m stone deaf after 15K nothing like my youth @ 22.5 K hz and I literally hear bugs walking and couldn’t even have any kind of mechanical clock and wristwatch and most electrical clocks. I would hear the watch Second hand move even buried inside a sock under clothes in a drawer on the other side of the room and the electrical hum from all transformers in electrical devices that had to covert 120v down to lower voltage DCV. Trying to sleep was torture for me even my own hart beat. Believe me there are so many things people call snake oil. That not just can but absolutely do make a big or settle difference. Missing instruments or notes then change a component and it’s there but other people say they can’t hear it. A music page being flipped during a recording. The sound of silk or Blue jeans rubbing up against a cello in a passage. The sound of lips parting or the saliva breaking as the mouth parts. The sound of a musician skin on a string instrument , dry skin or smooth skin. The long continuous tone from a single pluck of a cello string that stops on a normal system after a second but on a good system you or some people can hear it go on for 3 seconds. It’s in some way nice I lost some of my hearing I can sleep at night. I no longer need super high end equipment. I do like building my own class A amps and pre amps love that sound. One of my three son suffers from same hearing problem I had when I was younger. He need to unplug rodent and bug ultra sonic pest deterrent devices when he enters a home if he needs to stay there. Just think of all the money you save in hifi equipment because you don’t have sensitive hearing. Think of it as a gift. Having ultra sensitive hearing is a curse to. Like hearing you neighbor turn on their tv next door or across the street. The high pitch start up sound before the tv actually turns on. It’s like if the world was fill with color blind people and you were the only person who see all colors. And every one tells you you crazy or lying because you describe other colors they can’t see. We are NOT all created equal . Same goes for smell, taste and touch. There are some people that are just off the chart for certain senses.
The Big Misconception About Electricity - Veritasium. Everyone needs to watch that video, because everything we were taught or knew about AC signals through a wire was wrong. After knowing how things actually work, its easier to imagine how wires could make a difference.
Thank you for making the trip and posting your experiences. Feel free to make a follow up with more observations. I appreciate that your answer on 'do cables make a difference' is 'that depends'. I also back your statement that what 'you' hear or don't hear does NOT define what I can or cannot hear. Sadly, some cannot accept this and think that what they do not hear defines what others CANNOT hear and said effect CANNOT exist. Often when comparing different items (cables, DACs, whatever) others will comment on the 'huge' difference when I hear little or no change. I have come to accept this and that I cannot tell them what they are or are not hearing. Things like cable risers seem silly to many of us but I have come to accept that they may make a difference, even if I have not (yet) heard it. What IS silly is the prices that some boutique sources charge for a bunch of small wood blocks or other such things. Thanks again for this very rational response to Danny's (contentious to some) video and invitation.
I guess I wonder about cable risers and what is under the floor, I mean if there’s no wiring under the floor, then your suspended floor is a cable riser in itself
With the theory that the cable touching the floor is causing the supposed interference, I don't know that it matters what's under the floor itself. But that's just a guess.
When I got back into this hobby, all the animosity between "camps" was really off putting. I am glad there are movements in the community now to at least to build bridges instead of resorting to name calling and negative labeling. I think especially the pros and experts have responsibility. What they say or don't say, and how they say it will be escalated in the comments like a mine field and things eventually become extremely polarized. Not to excuse the average person either, we need to act our age. In the end, this hobby is about fun and should not always be taken that serious. Thanks for a great video Chris, very eloquently laid out - as always.
No matter what people say about Danny the people that have visited him have heard these differences, been in the Hi Fi trade my self for 40years now retired heard others experimenting with cables and different components in amplifiers from the 1980's we could here clear improvements with "normal' measurements showing no differences .I t depends how good your system is at total resolving the captured recorded sound if no improvement dont buy the product I think Danny does sale or return you cant be more honest than that!
They only do because they want to or because he paid them, he has yet to bring someone on that's against him or at least someone who's not a high end shill
Chris, once again I want to thank you for your straightforwardness and your honesty when making your videos. I have to admit my cables are extremely cheap. I had the chance a few weeks ago to spend $60 on an audio quest cable to use between my phono pre and receiver, or spend that $60 on an audio file record. I only chose the album because I would hate to spend money and here no results. I do believe in cases different cables can make a system sound better but I have not pulled the trigger yet. When I do purchase the cables I will let you know if it made a difference. Again thank you for your honesty and your videos.
I bumbled my way through a bachelors degree in physics, taking 4 years to complete the 3 year program. In my final year I spent a lot of time in labs earning a few dollars guiding 1st year students through the classic lab experiments.One thing I find frustrating is how a vast number of people (likely with little of no experience in a lab dealing with scientific instruments trying to take measurements) have such profound, even religious faith in the capability of scientific data gathering equipment. My theory is that a life of exposure to science fiction and the use of 'science' as a marketing tool, has created a very distorted perception in the minds of most, concerning what measurement can and can't reveal. They have no idea how many countless ways the process of attempting to isolate and measure various properties, can turn pear shaped. My analogy to people who believe they can measure the conductivity of a cable and therefore know its performance, is like dropping a line over the side of a boat to measure the depth, and then believing you know everything about the ocean. current, or electrical signal is so much more than electrons wiggling around in a wire. The fields created by current, the frequency dependant effects of impedance and reactance, the dielectric properties of materials these fields pass through, all combine to create a highly complex electrical system that dictates the end signal. Measurements are useful, but people have to understand their limitations.
@@howard5992 or really even know what they mean. A flat FR curve tells us that the signal out corresponds to the signal in, but tells us nothing about how the signal has been tortured in the crossover network to achieve that response curve.
I LOVE THE MESSAGE IN THIS VIDEO!!! Literally the attitude behind the subjective opinions of all the different options we have to choose from makes me so sad and almost embarrassed to be a part of the community. Thank you for reminding me there ARE level headed people that are obsessed with audio equipment, you give the community hope🙌
Kudos Chris for succinctly putting to words the intelligent conclusion for salient facts about this debate. Now can we get to the important argument . . . which sounds better vinyl or digital ? And my wife queries. . . how can I hear differences in cables when I cannot hear her from the kitchen. Again it depends . . . I posit that all those counter top appliances certainly emit RF interference that in some immeasurable way counter her intelligent transmissions. Although I have come to understand when she is screaming about a spoon rattling around in the garbage disposal, it means she would rather I put my hand in there to retrieve it as opposed to her. On the other "hand" I don't understand why she doesn't comprehend my command to take her hand off the operating switch and back away ? Not telling her twice would be nice . . .
Since you Like the Perceived sound effects of "tone" coloring componets (X-Over caps, coils, wire, terminals & Tinker Toys,.....Definitely include & use a < $ 200 > 10 Band EQ !!! ...That way, you can economically make whatever you have sound like Anything you prefer......Not joking.....Short of Amp clipping, It Really works & you can Endlessly "Tweak" your sweet spot sound for no more expen$es !!!
Love the discussion on adults. I think its a major problem, and have personally received death threats for less. I threw my hat in the ring with my own power cable video. But it's good to know where people stand. Cables do matter. Without them, we are not going to have much music. I do not recommend spending money on premium cables, because they just don't deliver enough value. And I'm a bit discuraged by the safety issues with some of these cables. Also, without the ability to pick out a cable without ABX, how is a cable to be engineered?
Terrific video and commentary. You should see if you can arrange a trip to Odyssey Audio. Klaus is another great, personable guy (whom I've met) who sells some of the best bang for the buck amps out there......plus some really high end stuff from Symphonic. He also has some really excellent speakers. Not an affiliate, just a happy customer.
And there are no digital signals on a cable, there are just voltages and they are basically analog. Have to be sampled and quantified to decide if they indeed are a zero or a 1.
I have 2 XLR cables, AQ Earth's and AQ McKenzie's. I was going to sell my Earth's because they are expensive and I didn't want money tied up in a cable that makes little to no difference. I switched to the McKenzie's and my wife and I were immediately shocked. The 3d image collapsed, the sound became less smooth, grainier, and edgier. As I listened for an hour or so it started becoming unbearable compared to the Earth's I just couldn't continue. I immediately switched back to the Earth's, and the smooth luscious sound returned. From my own personal experience, how revealing a system is dictates how much of a difference you hear.
Thank you for the presentation. Clearly microphones can pick up some things that the human ear cannot. This is simply objectively verifiable. Hope you do well on the journey....
Bravo. Well done. Good advice for any reviewer or connousieur would be to realize you don't know what you don't know. Always assume that someone else MIGHT know something you don't. Subscribed.
Don't know if anyone will read this this far on from putting it on view but.....basically, you're saying different, but that certainly doesn't mean better, which I can agree to. I worked for Noel Lee at the very inception of Monster Cable, and it was all a complete fraud. He had gotten some clear jacketed wire with a lot of conductors (365 to be exact) and took it to a show and woo woo a "new component" voila! we had a box that we used at some little shows (before CES) in SF with "Monster Cable" and some lamp cord. from the amp to the speakers Before both pieces of wire exited the box the lamp cord was hidden from view and there was a resistor in place. Well naturally a difference. The part for MC is long over, so really who cares. Different??? Is that necessarily better??? It's all kind of taste isn't it too??The wine thing. The sensational fraud that took place just shortly ago over oenophilia. A guy was caught with bottles fake labels and all of the necessities (and THIS GUY was considered one of the leading experts of $$$$$$$$$ wine and was considered a major source of the stuff) The fake Jackson Pollock that came on the market out of nowhere, that a gallery sold to some parvenu (actually more than one) is an example of deception, and not saying that the Coppola wine didn't taste good. Hell, I'm a bit of a hypocrite as I have some OCC cable
In 1994 I built a couple of Audio Note parallel 300b single ended triode amps. They were called the Kit 3 - I took them over to a guys house. He had some Beauhorn Virtuosos. During listening he said I found this changes the sound. He folded some card into upside down V shapes and lifted the cable. I remember thinking.. are you kidding me… I can hear it.,not subtle. So to me cable lifters are capable of changing the sound. Will you like it, will they in your system.. who knows. Try it and see. Cables can and sometimes do change the sound
I think the best way to deal with cables is the DIY route: buy bulk cables and connectors from leading Japanese brand with an excellent reputation for engineering and value for money pricing: Furutech. That way you can assemble $2,000+ cables for a fraction of the price by using your own labour or that of a friend with good hands. Furutech makes some of the most high tech power connectors and XLR connectors in the business, and also puts all of its cables (even the bulk ones) through a two-stage cryogenic and demagnetization Alpha Process", so the components are very close to the best of the best. All you need to do is put them together yourself.
Cheers Chris. I've been into hifi for 30 years. Early days I just used the cheap cables, I'm a straight shooting, science loving guy and i didn't believe they could make a notable difference to justify the money. Then you discover Gene and your stance firms. Then one day I was at a guy's house/shop buying a set of ATC 40's. He forced a few different cables into my hands and told me to go and have a play. I did so just out of curiosity (not expecting to hear much difference) but I did. Bloody hell, very annoyingly I heard better detail and a nicer, smoother sound. I then spent about $270 on cables and I'm happy that I did. I love what I have.
I go back time and again to an article many, many, too many years ago where a noted audio magazine did a very good blind test with Monster cable and 16 or 14 gage SO cord. This was before the cable manufacturers started spending $s on advertising in their magazines. They used both music and pink noise. They had at least 10 but I believe closer to 15 reviewers. The results--only 2 of the reviewers could statistically tell a difference in the sound with the 2 cables-both of these people were under 20 and could only tell a difference with pink noise. And…….only one, a 15 year old girl with ears I could only dream of having, could, after being told which cable was which, correctly identify the cable she was listening to-again, only with pink noise. Sorry, duplicate something like this and I will become a believer. There is a reason bind listening test are no longer in vogue-they give a result that contradict what people want to believe.
Pandoras box was stuffed with HiFi cables it seems. I find the FireWire cable story both puzzling and frustrating but not so surprising after all. Especially if this was before the DAC in the chain of events. One guess would that the buffers and protocols were forced to work differently in the timing domain. My guess also is that you won't be able to measure it, but as you said, you can hear it. Our ears are a fun device. And this could be exeplified by the old question; If a tree falls in the forrrest but you're not there to hear it, does it make any sound a all? The answer is in fact NO, it does not (filosofers have been debating that for thousands of years, but the answer is rather simple). The falling tree does (at least most likely unless we deny our own existance and claim we live in a simulation (an entirely different discussion altogether)), create a disturbance in the surrounding air or "ether" in the shape of a wave propagating through it like when a stone is thrown in water. But because sound is a function of interpretation of the waveforms meeting your sensing organs which in turn are interprated inside your brain, and not being an independant free standing entity by it self with it's own life in it's own right so to speak. And since everyones ears are just a bit different, much like a fingerprint, the perceived sound is as individual as the fingerprint or ear for that matter. Not even mentioning our brains here to add to the compexity and individuality. Or would anyone even venture into a discussion if our brains work differently? I think we all know the answer to that one, and I rest my case your honor. I completely agreee with your statement - it depends. On a lot of different factors and variables too. A great presentation, succinct, articulate, engaging and positive. Keep up the good work!
So is it the cables or possibly the connectors for these cables? The cables themselves might matter in that they have some impedance and might add some coloration to the sound, but like you said, it is super marginal...so much so that you don't always hear the difference. There are tons of other things that matter in terms of sound too in your system. If you can't always tell the difference, imo the difference is super marginal, and might not be worth it. Your wine example doesn't apply. Same alcohol content and grapes doesn't mean they measure the same. The barrels in which they are fermented, any additives that are added - the grapes themselves even from the same bunch taste very different many a times...all these factors affect the taste.
Having a belief that this review is tainted after becoming personal friends with Danny and his family actually holds alot of weight. By you even bringing it up verifies that this review in FACT is tainted by that interaction with Danny and his family. You made yourself look guilty by admitting such interaction existed and helped you by saving you money.
You don't need to go overboard on interconnects. But why cheap out when it comes to cables if your system costs several thousand dollars. You don't need to spend a bundles on cables, but why use off the shelf. Splurge a little. At a minimum, they will look better.
in my pinion ! the ONLY way to tell if cable maters : swap them blindly . go swap one rca (audioquest for nodost for esemple) without the owner nowing it ! of course everything is iding in a cabinet
Ok ,I just watched a bit, so I will chime in before I hear the rest. I have been commenting for years, and many times, when i show proof, when i bring up another view, I get some lip service from the content creator or one of his 'followers'. Now from whatever side we come from, this is the Internet, and not one of those people have walked to me and had that same energy in person. I concur that NO ONE should be talking anything on YT they will never say to that person's face, and I stand by that. In fact, I have run into a few people in person, who were yapping online, and it went fine, because that online energy vanished immediately. See, here is the thing..It's audio and components, and no matter what is on paper, people will have their preferences and have the right to them. That means it you use $20 cables and you are fine with the, they are for YOU. You spent your money, your energy, your time, and you do not have to put up with someone saying expensive nor cheaper cables suck. We have the same exact thing going on in the photography world, where people get stuck on one brand or format, and seek to bash the other. It's so damn stupid because we can buy and use different formats and brands at the same time and still make money. I cannot speak for anyone else, yet I am not going to sit here and have anyone threaten me or call me out simply because I do not agree with them. I mean grow up, respect other views, and understand that on both sides. If we all had to say whatever we say on RUclips IN PERSON or if we had to share our addresses, 99% of these conversations would be way different. What do i use? Whatever works , what I can afford, and what helps my systems. I have both a production setup and a live recording setup, so I use audio gear like power amps mixed with studio mixers, studio monitors, home speakers, samplers, computers(Mac/PC),tape recorders, and digital recorders/samplers. NO I do not have a 'listening room' and no one except maybe one person I know has one, because most of us are either mobile or moving around the house/streets hearing music.
Cables are part of the signal path and can influence sound through interaction with the signal source and destination impedance. They also can affect the level of noise entering the signal path and provoke instability in the drive circuitry through capacitive and / or inductive loading. So in essence, yes cables can make a difference and sometimes a significant difference. The higher resolution your audio system is capable of, the more you will be able to notice the effect a cable may have. Digital cables can influence sound through noise introduction and create digital signal errors which are very audible if they can't be corrected by the receiving component and DAC. Many times this is through the mechanism of internal reflections of the digital signal which can introduce timing errors and increased jitter. Speaker cables can affect the sound simply by the increasing skin affect shifting the phase up in higher frequencies. The conductor diameter also matters and bigger isn't better in most cases, unless you need to drive very low impedance loads with alot of current. I don't believe in most of the marketing claims many companies make with their cables. Often, they don't want to reveal their gimmics with proper science attached to it. The other issue is most people don't want to deal with a stiff garden hose like cable that will be difficult to route and place, plus the connectors on the equipment can be unnecessarily strained by the often unreasonably massive diameter cables pulling on them. This includes the overly tight fitting connectors often found on high end cables that can ruin the connector itself. So do cable make a difference? Yes, but within scientific reason.
Fun video, thank you. I use 2 different sets of speaker cables in my system; one sounds warmer than the other. There is a clear difference in the sound to me. My brother, who loves and plays music, can not hear a difference. Seems weird to me....
Hi Chris - I just discovered your channel, thanks to Danny. I'm impressed by your spoken work - very stylish in a literary way. In a recent video, Danny referred to your imminent visit as I'm sure you're aware, so I decided I needed to discover your channel. KUDOS! Amongst many other tweaks I've experimented with in my 53 years in this wonderful hobby of ours, cable risers is my latest and in my revealing and carefully matched system, I immediately heard a difference which I characterize as an improvement. Freer extreme highs, faster transients as well as a better soundstage and imaging. I think it's no surprise that many high-end systems have cable risers. I made my own from oak offcuts so they color-match my wooden flooring. A previous tweak is decoupling the loudspeakers from the floor, which I tried after watching Max Townshend's convincing demo on RUclips. I was gobsmacked what a difference this made, liberating the high mids and top end and cleaning up the bass. Imaging made a big step in the right direction too. Previously I had been a spike disciple. And yes, of course in this system and with ears used to 53 years of critical listening in a revealing high-resolution system, despite my ears' worsening frequency response cables DO make a difference! Wishing you all the best, especially years of musical pleasure, Rob in Switzerland
You can't always measure what you hear. Its not because there isn't a difference, its because the difference is so small that measuring equipment can't pick it up. Sometimes that's due to noise effecting the measurement but also due to other variables in the measurement process used. The human ear can be incredibly sensitive to sound subtleties. For instance, there are amplifiers that measure text book perfect and sound worse than amplifiers with significantly higher distortion, noise and other abnormalities. There is so much more to explaining sound than measurements can reveal and the preferences are subjective in nature thanks to our own human interpretation affected by our emotions, experiences and physiology.
Novel very novel truth be told cables may make a difference or not thank you I've sed this for along time oh ya the price of tinker toys just went up ahhh. Shhhh don't tell them....peace
My Ohno spkr cables are supported by two shortened bamboo skewers crossed and inserted into glue filled holes of small wood blocks made of maple for stability. Simple.
I find it crazy that people believe it makes no difference. Wearing a hoody vs a T-shirt makes a difference. I bought Maze Ref4 power cables literally just for looks, that was literally the only reason.... And they made my system sound different. It's my dirty little secret I've never shared publicly but it is what it is. I also know cable orientation makes a difference but I've got a snake pit behind my rack because it's "good enough".
I keep power cables and signal cables apart. I find shielding is important. I also found keeping my speaker cables off my carpet on low resonance blocks. All these things made a difference. Cables on carpets result in change in capacitance.
People avoid admitting that every component in the chain affects the sound. Some more than others, but if you put plastic tyres on a racing car, it will not perform good. Its a *system* and we should treat it like one.
Cables shouldn't matter as long as they're proper Guage wires but they do for some reason. At least a lot of people who use premium cables seem to think so. I don't know.
When the gear gets in the way of the music, it gets upgraded. But, you're right. Too many people listen to the hi-fi. You can tell - all they mention is highs, lows, bright, etc. What I'm after is the tone of the guitar, to understand what's being sung, to hear the emotion in the singer, for the rhythm to make me want to dance, etc. Listen for this, and you'll end up spending a fortune on hi-fi, and being very annoyed at the quality of recordings...
I agree - it depends... For example phono cables: With MM cartridges, the cable capacitance has an impact on the cartridge frequency response. With LOMC cartridges, cable shielding can lower the noisefloor, since the low level signals have to be amplified a lot - any noise coming into the cable will be amplified a lot too, making the noise audible. Ever had a slight hum coming from your turntable? Try a better shielded phono cable... chances are that the hum is eliminated or greatly reduced. But as long as digital cables are up to spec, they shouldn't make any difference (i.e. buy proper USB/coax cables instead of generic OEM cables, but there's no need for anything extra fancy).
Sadly we live within an era that people cannot disagree in a civilized manner anymore. Instead its a professional wrestling Hell-In-The-Cell match in which there must be only one winner. Yes. I said it. Social media is the Thunderdome of our Mad Max universe. And we do understand the rules of the Thunderdome, don’t we? 🤪 Chris, as usual, did a smart job of presenting a position without alienating members of a community. We all listen differently thus we have our own unique sensory abilities regarding how we listen to music. It’s one of the few dynamics in which everyone can actually be right at the same time from different perspectives. But I will say this about Danny from GR Research and the video in question which caused lots of interesting responses. It’s very important to be aware, as a content creator, about how your messages are going to sound before you put them out there. Will everyone always be happy? Of course not, but…there is still an opportunity to minimize misinterpretations and that’s an opportunity for creators like Danny to consider moving forward and a learning opportunity for a great many. Sometimes it’s the attitude that can get in the way of the message, but thats just me.
I have Morrow Audio MA-1s which are bottom of the line for them. They sound pretty good. My Nagaoka MP-110 had an obnoxious hum and radio signal for a long time until I just got a proper phono cable in the form of the PH-1 on the U-Turn Orbit end and that somehow improved the signal-to-noise ratio and solved the issue. It is still there but it is extremely quiet and not really noticeable unless you really crank the volume and don't play anything. Fidelity is debatable but in this case cables definitely made a difference in terms of hum.
I can respect the results of double blind tests. One very powerful aspect of human experience that is very real both in medical settings, sound, and taste is the placebo affect. It's not something that can be measured in the science of the field involved, but is rather brain science. Regarding cables that I know for a fact makes a difference is the audio input cables, most specifically RCA cables. The signals that they carry are very low amplitude signals and shielding plays a very large factor so they can certainly pick up a lot of noise that gets pushed into amplifier stages along with the desired signal. That said the difference between poor quality cables and 'good enough' cables can be anywhere from $10-$30.
Digital signals, are digital signals. It is likely there is a resister on that cable when facing one way which is meant for noise rejection due to the high bandwidth of digital communications. You only heard gain differences, that is it. That is normal practice with modern digital electronics. It is called impedance matching using a terminator resistor. Using your wine analogy... it is best to let an engineer who understands, who can look at the supposed system, analyze it, and come to something better then pseudo science. Also Bad cables, with cracks, or rubber insulation on old cables that went bad, especially on carpet, can cause distortions. Static electricity and bridging to ground will happen. You are unlikely to hear anything on properly insulated cables using PVC or Silicone. Also The over engineered crossovers are not the same. You can have the same value capacitors, but with a different ESR (internal resistance), which will cause gain in the frequency band. Those "high end" poly caps have lower ESR then electrolytic caps because of their higher cross section of material. If your tweeter is designed to have higher gain, with the "under engineered" crossover, they will sound... as you said... exactly the same because the frequency is exactly the same. The difference is gain. Also inductors with an iron core, act different then inductors with an air core, even though the inductance, voltage, and current ratings are the same. Again, resulting in audible differences which can be designed into the woofer by using a lighter / stiffer suspension, different air gaps, etc. It is synergy between the two that matter most. A lot of mis information in audio these days. It is interesting to hear peoples pseudo science, but there is always a legitimate reason for sound differences that people who don't understand electronics miss.
The cables had no resistor, and the change was as clear as day. The cables Danny used were also far from cracked, damaged, or bad in any form. We'll have to agree to disagree about the rest because there's ample evidence out there to refute what your saying, just as there's evidence to support it.
The problem is there’s a ton of snake oil. People who do no research and just try to capitalize heavily on marketing claims. This is what leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many. Danny does a good job of listening to things and experimenting with different combinations to find what works. This is the bare minimum anyone selling cables should do.
As a (currently) homesick Texan, welcome's to our world and thanks for bringing some decorum (and smoked brisket) to these issues. I love both digital and analog, MQA and MP3, streaming and locally stored (whether on a hard drive or from a non-static sleeve...). Belt drive or direct drive? Oh, God here comes the Ford v Chevy slingers. It's all good, whatever you find to enjoy in your niche, experience and ability to afford. I have a nice pair of NADs (hey, I'm talking bout the C658 pre for one system and the T758 V3i for A/V...), some vintage Pioneer, Yamaha and Sansui receivers. Nice SVS towers, KEF LS50 bookshelf and vintage horn loaded 2 way Klipsch knockoffs (that sound simply incredible). Also have a crazy good 1980's Realistic receiver with some stupid good Daytons in the garage. Do I prefer my beyerdynamics wired or Beat fit pros wireless? Depends on what I'm doing. But the last thing on my mind when I'm enjoying any of my music equipment is how much smarter or better informed I am than someone else who uses something different. Yes, my favorite overall medium is R2R over a class A amp into some 10" woofers with a horn....unless I'm driving. Or exercising. Or having guest over. Or....
Agree. It depends. 25 years in the business: the equipment, various interactions, the room, the human factors, all contribute. Not all listeners listen the same.
Bro, yer vids have built my system. I’m very grateful and am on the home stretch here… Pro-Ject debut carbon evo, ifi phono preamp, IotaVX SA3, QAcoustics 3050i (arriving Friday!)…. So, cables! Since I haven’t played a record on this system yet I’m hoping to pick up cables and start spinning this weekend. You’ve never given a bum steer. What cables do you recommend? And, generally, how close should a fella keep the speakers to the system? Dude yer channel is a pocket full of aces. Big ups! 👍🏼
Speaker placement is all about your room. Start out with a distance of six feet apart and go from there. Move them around. Closer to walls, further from walls, toe-in slightly, straight ahead. See what sounds best to you. Cables are a different thing altogether. I'd look at some affordable offerings with the system you have. There's no need to blow hundreds of dollars on cables. I'm trying out some QED speaker cable right now and quite like it. They're affordable too.
I will be 70 years old in 2022. Got married in 75'...bought a total Radio Shack system with wedding money including receiver, 16 gauge speaker wire, LAB turntable and, Nova 7 speakers. I was out shoveling snow in 82' and a neighbor came over to help. The neighbor asked me if I ever heard of "The Absolute Sound" which was published 4 times a year and had zero manufacturer equipment advertisements in it.....just reviews. TAS was using words like soundstage and imaging to describe the music I was hearing. I was hooked! What was my system's weakest link???? I had to fix it! I was a janitor and my wife was a teacher....not much money left after paying bills. I worked extra jobs like being in the cook section of my local PA National Guard so I could fix the weakest link in my system. I had friends at the National guard who were trying to fix their weakest link also. Misery loved company! I discovered that my weakest link in my sound system were the interconnects and speaker cables. I bought MAS ( Music and Sound) interconnects and Kimber Kable from my local dealer. I could hear a pleasing difference in the way my favorite music sounded. The treble frequencies sounded smoother and the midrange sounded fuller. My equipment had fixed AC cords back then. Now fast forward to 2022 that has equipment with interchangeable power cords. My current system has vintage Magnepan MMG speakers, second hand Parasound P5 preamp, Crown 2502 amp, Oppo 103 DVD player-streamer that plays TIDAL and Pandora. I use AudioQuest cables and the system just sounds right for these almost 70 ears. I tell myself that my system sounds best late at night. Maybe someday everything will be wireless!
When building a 2 channel audio system, there are so many variables. When visiting other people's homes, and listening to their system, the three biggest variables I notice are: speaker placement, room treatment, and the quality of the recordings being listened to. Sometimes I identify a piece of equipment that is suspect, but that is usually not the case. While I think having quality audio components and cables is very important, there is also a diminishing return that happens at a surprisingly affordable cost. In other words, spending more money on cables may not offer as much improvement in sound quality over better speaker placement, room treatment, and choosing expertly mastered/mixed recordings. There is also the subjective test: If you close your eyes, and listen to a recording on your system, and you are overwhelmed with the sensation that the musician or vocalist is in the room, playing or singing to you personally - then you have to ask yourself, can it get any better than this? When the illusion comes across as completely real, perhaps no more improvements are needed. It's a good way to know when to stop swapping out components and cables.
The three variables you mentioned are absolutely key in my opinion.
Cables matter when it's comes to proper gauge wires. Also a good quality connection matters. But $21,000 Audio cables are nonsense.
For most of us, yes. But there are people who can afford them and like them. I just wish I could afford them ;-)
Depends on your system, dude
How do you know how resolving your system is without measurements.
Being dismissive of a product purely because of its price is puerile and callow. No doubt, the prices on a lot of things can seem outlandish to the average individual. This extends beyond the audio industry as well. That doesn't however prove anything at all. There is no empirical evidence backing the "It's expensive, thereby it must be bullsh%#" mindset.
@@sptauto I said nonsense not BS totally different wording.
Chris, great video. As a group, we audiophiles need to chill and be respectful of each other. Do what makes you happy, period. I really liked the wine analogy. Thank you.
Can't agree with you more in your sentiments! This is a great video, and audiophiles should be a little more respectful of differencing opinions. They are after all, opinions. (Except for Chris liking the evil team from up north, that is inexcusable. :D )
A little polite goes a long way.
Sadly though, the wines did not, I am sure, measure the same! There was no measurement of the chemical characteristics of the wines.
It is the chemical characteristics that affect the taste, that make it taste as it does.
I'd be very surprised I'd the oenologists who made the wines, designed the flavour profiles, did not measure them. I'd also expect that these winemakers designed a flavour profile to suit their price and production constraints while appealing to a carefully defined market segment. That's exactly what professional loudspeaker manufacturers do. Just as competent and professional electronics designers do with all the items in the audio chain.
The best that one might say is that not all manufacturers and reviewers can or do perform all the testing that can be done. Just as our host did not do in his comparison of his wines. The tests are available, he chose not to make the measurements.
The issue many people have with cable advocates isn't with the consumers but with the manufacturers. Specifically when manufactures make claims they can't back up. If a wine company claimed their wine made food taste better than other wines or their wine had health benefits that other brands didn't, then that's a problem. Preferences doesn't equal better. I prefer red to white, you won't hear me saying red is better.
Hey Chris! It was an absolute pleasure having you in town to see what we have going on down here! I hope we'll get to see ya again soon enough! Keep up the excellent work! 👏
Thanks Hobbs. I'll definitely be back. Probably after the Summer so I can avoid all that damn Texas heat.
Good for you Hobbs. I'd love to come visit you guys when we visit friends in Houston (who are looking to move up to Fort Worth, which is a bit closer). I'd tried to encourage Gene from Audioholics and Amir from ASR to take up Danny's invite on RUclips comments, but Neither seems to be interested, sadly. I wrote Danny with their replies and he wrote me back.
@@stephenyoud6125 you're more than welcome to visit anytime! Just give us a call or shoot us to schedule a time to visit when you're able! 👍
@@hoth2112 😎
Dogma always scares me, so I completely appreciate your reasoned discussion of this topic. I have, indeed, found cables to make a difference. Where I usually struggle, however, is with the justification for esoteric cables that cost any more than around 5-10% of the price of the component they are being connected to. Anything beyond that and you can almost assuredly gain far more sonic improvement by spending that money on upgrading your components, especially speakers, than any real or perceived improvement that the cables make.
Nevertheless, we all choose to allocate our resources differently. So how arrogant must we be to believe that our allocation choices are “right” and someone else’s are “wrong”?
It’s unfortunate that the other RUclipsrs have chosen to decline, some of them rather discourteously, Danny’s hospitality. You took him at face value and came out of this experience better for it.
I look forward to your next installment. Keep it up!
Well said, Dan. I appreciate the encouragement.
1st. I'd like say great video.....I really respect how you present your thoughts here
2nd. Any one who says they can hear a difference on youtube should just do a double blind test live and prove it. Danny promised to do one and it never happened.
3rd. The wine comparison lost me. Of course wines tasted different but they would measure differences as well. Chemical analysis would reveal the difference you tasted. The people that claim to taste differences in wines are called sommeliers. Sommeliers can taste all the subtle differences in wines but have to go through extensive training, testing and certification to back it up.
4th. Sonograms routinely use sound to create extremely detailed images. Those microphones are definitely better than the human ear and literally tell the "entire picture". Measurements can hear everything that "YOU CAN" and more in ultra sonics.
Finally....Im not a believer or nonbeliever in cables but we can put all of the arguments to rest if all the people that claim to hear the differences would prove it just like a sommelier does.
Thanks for the video.
Microphones are definitely inferior to the human ear. Thanks for the well thought out response.
@@thevinylattack I'm on the same wavelength regarding the analysis of music versus sound, which is why I think it's safe to say we all neglect the importance of our brains. Our ears are super, but they are only receivers. The real magic happens in the gray matter. Cheers. Love the beard!
Excellent presentation Chris. Articulated, concise and engaging. Thank you so much. 👍
My pleasure.
Too bad he didn't do proper blindtests. It's just more words. Big fail.
"It depends"... LOL! Nice. Come on, Chris, make a decision, man. My personal take - Yes, they do. To a point. And then things get out of control. Spending multiple thousands of dollars on cabling to support a mid-fi plus system is straight up misappropriation of funds, in my opinion. There is no value in that. I think common sense and perspective should be applied when pairing components to infrastructure. But as always, people should be free to do whatever they feel is best for their system and Hi-Fi experience.
BTW, I tried the speaker cable riser experiment - I didn't hear a difference. However, I have seen some deployments that at least created an interesting aesthetic. That alone could be worth it! Again, whatever works for people.
From my personal point of view, I have long come to the conclusion that cables do make a difference, but are often negligible at best for the majority of us with affordable set ups. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. You can spend 100$ on one cable and spend 30$ on another and hear no difference at all. Yet, in some cases, you can hear a difference between two different 30$ cables quite clearly. Price does in no way automatically equate to increase in sound quality here, but if you are capable of doing the testing yourself, you can find the right cable for you at the right price. If you can't hear a difference? That's ok! Save the money, but that does not automatically discount the idea that some cables provide better sound than others. It really depends on your system, the shielding design of the cables, the length, whether the copper is solid or stranded, etc. I could keep going. You can especially notice differences with cables that often have the shield grounded at only one end when flipping the cable around. SKW cables are a good budget example of this. So yes, I do believe cables matter. The sad part is that a lot of those who say they don't - also believe that balanced designs are automatically better than single ended counter parts. I'd love to be proven wrong!
That's an interesting take on it, and I think you're very possibly close to the mark. I can't help thinking that the cables question is one where there is potentially some truth in it and there are honest sellers out there, but it's been exploited by some unscrupulous sellers pushing things to ludicrous financial extremes.
I have to agree with most of what you said. I've never heard of SKW cables, but just looked them up. I discovered and love Blue Jean cables for their quality to cost ratio and they're made in Seattle, WA.
@@osliverpool If you were a hifi cable manufacturer knowing some people will pay ANY amount of money for a cable. Wouldn't you set the prices accordingly? 😉
Leaving snake oil behind I suggest anyone interested to just order 5 cheap cables of different brands and test them at home. Keep the one you like the best and then order a bunch more of said cable, use them in your stereo system and be happy knowing that price has actually little to do with how good the cable is.
I doubt if $100 or $30 cables can make any noticable difference. I start noticing overall improvement with power cables that cost over $500.
@@geminijinxies7258 Well, yes, the profit temptation is certainly there!
Better or different, !!!!!! hi-fi nuts cannot make up there minds, I,m 76 years old so everything sounds great!!!
Many thanks Chris! This is exactly what we need today and in the future: dealing and speaking with each other should be respectful and kind. Anonymity in social media has encouraged less confident and embittered people (and not only those) to show their hate, malevolence and grudge in outrageous manners.
Let me quote the great Denzel Washington: ""With so many things coming back in style, I can't wait until morals, respect and intelligence become a trend again."
Plus, of course the "audiophile" statement is very true. Everybody decides for themselves if they like or dislike the sound of music as it is....no judgement here, only sometimes helpful suggestions to open eyes....or ears....
That about sums it up. Well said.
If you care about what is actually true, you have to do proper blindtests. This video has nothing but more claims. It's not that difficult: if you hear a difference, you should hear it in a blindtest too.
I think this, by far, is your best video Chris!
It came acrossed, to me, as more about the HOBBY rather than the GEAR.
BRAVO!
I came here to say the same thing!
Great, it's all downhill from here... ;-)
@@thevinylattack Sadly, we all realize that... 😕
If the differences are that minor it doesn't matter...listening to reproduced sound is simply a subjective experience.
So...it really can't be measured and for something that costs scammer type, ridiculously high prices. So...yes there
are companies who will prey on this. I've been in the wine business for 35 years and have attended hundreds of
tastings. One of the most important was a technical tasting that involved nine retailers, two wine makers and one
sommelier. We were tasting six French Grand Cru wines. Unknown to us was a Reserve Napa wine of the same
vintage and varietal that had a false French wine label on it. Everyone at the table was wrong about this wine
except for the sommelier. Just by virtue of seeing a French label none of these experienced people were able to
discern any difference. All of your senses are I/O devices that transmit information to the brain where it is decoded
and only one was able to discern the very slight differences that allowed him to know it wasn't a French wine. I won't
go into the details on how a very educated person along with a great palate and nose can ferret out large amounts
of factual information about a wine but that is something only one in a million humans can do. All it took was a label which is virtual information from your eyes to cause the brain to change the smell and aromas in your head to taste
better or just different. Keep that in mind about your system. Everyone will swear they hear a difference but only
one percent will actually know and with most of the audiophiles who can afford the tens of thousands of
dollars for the finest of cables all around from power source to interconnects to speaker cables they are generally
older and have lost a considerable amount of their hearing ability..so...who really cares but the companies
who make huge profits and the people who are not "Sommeliers" of Sound and but have fooled themselves into
believing it. Spend your money on the components that matter sources, speakers and preamps and amplifiers.
You can then afford to buy a house for your favorite lady and still listen to great music on an awesome system.
The wine reference was spot on, some years ago they did a double blind test with wine connoisseurs and contrary to popular belief none of them choose the same wine as the best.
Tastebuds are like ears, no two are the same so choose the system that sounds good to you and quit trying to keep up with the joneses.
That's how I look at it.
The wine reference shows that you both don't seem to know much about wine, how it's made and why wines of the same grape variety can be very different. Now this is of course not a crime, but otoh it really isn't a very good example in the given context.
Because even if wine critics chose different wines as their personal favorites, they usually agree on which wines are well made and which ones aren't. Since this is not a matter of personal taste, but of quality levels in the production process of wine and you can taste that. And besides, certainly are not all wines "made the same way". This would be like saying all amps are electric devices that do the same thing, so they all are the same and you would hopefully agree that this is not the case, right?
Actually maybe it IS a good example, because it kind of proves Danny's point quite well about being well educated on topics that you want to speak about. Maybe the Coppola family can issue an invitation for you and you could learn some more about wine, it's actually an interesting topic and exploring it is about as much fun as exploring audio. And the two go very well together. ;-)
I used to test the signals of multi million dollar telecommunication equipment. Most everything is measurable. Soldered cable measures different from not soldered cable. Heavily soldered cable measures different from lightly soldered cable. The same cable with a silver solder vs a lead solder measures differently. The same conductors with different outer shield materials measure differently. A cable with 1/10 inch puncture in the outer-shield fails the test. People who say cables are not measurable, you are either using a toy for the measurement or you have no idea whatsoever.
Don't say that in a crowded hifi convention room, lol.
Hi there. I'm in the same business as you are; telecommunication. And as I agree with most of what you said, I can't see connection between miles long telecom cables caring bandwidth 5MHz to 3GHz vs. few ft long audio cables barley doing 20Hz to 30kHz. Only thing that matters is an dielectric material used in cables as it's directly related to VoP.
Soldering? What would be the difference? 0.001dB? It is audible? No...
cheers
Thank you. I was also suspect that cables make a difference until.... I had been a closet audiophile most of my life. I had a subscription to Stereophile off and on for 30 years. On my 50th birthday, my wife said, let's get you an audio system. After a day listening to systems, I had my wife come in and give me her opinion. She is not an audiophile. In fact, she says she's heard several very expensive systems in her life before she met me and was never impressed. Her reaction to each setup was very interesting. She couldn't listen to a Prima Luna tube amp because she said the bass wasn't natural and it made her heart feel like it would skip. When we got down to the final selection, Randy said let's switch out the Red Dawn for the Blue Heaven speaker cables. He changed one speaker and while I set myself to try my best to hear a differeence, my wife spoke-up and said, change it back, that is horrible.
It was at this point that Randy (the owner of the shop) said, her hearing is better than yours and mine. Admittedly, I could not hear a difference as drastic as my wife could. To me, I would need more time to try and discern maybe a slight difference where to my wife the difference was tremendously obvious. And note, she has no horse in this race. She likes to listen to music that makes her dance, she in no way shares my passion for music.
Personally, I believe you need a minimum threshold for most wires and cables to be safe. Beyond that, if you can hear a difference and your purchase makes you happy, be happy! Hell, I just got some really nice custom headphone cables that are really expensive. Did I get them because I think they will make my headphones sound better? Yes, because the cables that come with headphones by default SUCK - looking at you Hifiman. But did I need to spend as much as I did - God no. I did it because I like the person that makes them and they are a total work of art. They make me happy just looking at them and holding them.
So do I doubt some people can hear things others can't. No, I live with it every day. She can also smell things I can't and do I say she's wrong or take her word for it and go take a shower? I'm still married so you know which one I chose.
Woman in general have better hearing than men, so I'm not surprised she was picking up the differences first.
The real question is, is your sister convinced you are missing out if you go for a $20 bottle over a $100 one?
OK, in general I agree with you about the immaturity of the discourse. But it was Danny first who was calling people flat earthers, clueless and other nice names if they don't think cables have an effect...
You don’t think the “flat earthers” had made rude comments before He called them that?
@@9mmmike642 Agreed! Pretty sure Danny‘s comments have always been in response to rude naysayers. But I could be wrong and that’s OK. Not everybody has to be right all the time. Something a lot of people in this hobby forget.
@@9mmmike642 nope. He was saying it in response to Amir from ASR.
Be that as it may, I'm not doing it here and I don't want others doing it either. We can certainly have polite discussions about our differences and that's my goal.
If anyone does not know the answer to this question has never owned a synergistic high resolving system (period) 🥴
Back in the late 80s, I had an audiophile friend who had an amazing system. He had turned his 2 1/2-car garage into a listening room and he built his speakers, crossovers, and much of his equipment himself. To this day it’s probably the finest system I’ve ever heard in a personal home. One day he calls me up to say he’s got new cables and wants me to come over and have a listen. So I go to his house and his system sounded amazing still and he showed me the cables he made. They were cheap wire that he bought at the Home Depot. We then decided to go to my house and see how they sounded on my system. I had some much more expensive (by the standard of the day) Monster cable on a pair of Apogee Duettas. We put his cables on the Duettas and the lower end on my system just disappeared and the upper end was thin. What sounded great on his system did not sound great on mine. We then took my cables back to his house to swap them out in his system and his system was diminished. So there you have it. Expensive cables vs cheap cables were entirely dependent on the system you put them in. Money guaranteed nothing. But there was a difference!
That's what I wish I had more of around here. Other people to swap cables, have listening sessions and just talk music.
Ah yes. Apogee Duettas. Goes down to less than one ohm I believe. Sounds incredible !! David Berning’s amp was a great match back then.
@@thevinylattack Where is here?
@@paulstearns93 The Metro Detroit area.
@@thevinylattack If you are ever escaping the frozen tundra in Sunny S Florida, you are welcome to stop by, have beer, sip some rum and check out whatever system(s) I have at the time. I even have a turntable (currently a Technics SL1200 MK II) which I use infrequently.
I learned a long time ago that once you hit a certain level the quality of the recording makes or breaks the experience. You can have $100k invested but a shitty recording stays a shitty recording.
You don't need to spend anywhere near that kind of money to hear a lousy recording sounding lousy, but you're completely correct.
I may be on my own here but I have always felt this topic is win, win. If I can't hear a difference in cables then great, I don;t have to spend money on them. If I can, then great. I get a system that sounds better to me. I win either way. Why people care or don't care if people spend money or don't spend money on cables is beyond me. It isn't your money or your setup. Let people do what makes them happy.
This is an incredibly refreshing take on it. Well said.
@@thevinylattack As always great videos mate!
WOW. Finally someone who handled this “CRAZY SITUATION” correctly!! Good for you!!!
I too was in the camp that “almost” all cables sounded the same until I heard the difference for myself. I had been brainwashed that good quality cables were all that one needed to transfer the signal regardless of analog or digital throughout the chain.
It does not surprise me that you also heard a difference with the cable risers as there are far too many people that use them. I have never heard a difference but I admit I haven’t ever tinkered with them either.
I'm just a guy trying to put out a fire.
Now been reviewed on ASR ! Oh boy...... Power cord.
I’ve heard differences in single ended cables, USB and speaker cables. I haven’t heard any difference in balanced cables vs other balanced cables. That being said, the differences were small and higher priced cables weren’t necessarily better, just different
I can see how balanced would certainly change things.
The key take away for me is that you use the word "difference" over and over. If you can't quantify these differences as definitive improvements then the changes are small enough not to matter, at least to me. I recently saw a RUclips vid where an audio club tested self made $15 speaker cables vs proprietary multi thousand dollar cables in blind tests. The results were quite random with as many testers preferring the inexpensive cables to the uber high dollar ones. There's a reason we call it "psycho acoustics" as the mind plays as big, or maybe even a bigger, role in what we hear as our ears. To be scientifically valid results must be reliably repeatable- anything less means we're just guessing. Interesting topic though.
As you say, different isn't always an improvement. They are indeed small changes. The results were repeatable in my experience and always have been in the case of cables.
Well said. A little civility in a world severely lacking.
As for me, too much time on the firing line, too many rock festivals... Tinnitus has robbed me of the ability to discern small differences in audio. Happily, that means I'm fine with my $25 amazon speaker cables, and I've no reason to fight my grandkids for their tinker toys :D
I'm more or less in the same boat. Tinnitus from my war, and old age,(in my 70's). But it can't really hurt to try, especially with, and without my hearing aids,(Govt. Issue). My cd collection is around 600, so I'm definitely a music buff. But I can't say I'm an audiophile because of my hearing.
I'm just glad you have the hearing to enjoy the music at all.
An audiophile is just a person who's passionate about music and stereos. It has nothing to do with budget, hearing, or a certain 'level' of gear. If you count yourself amongst the audiophiles, you most certainly are.
It depends, could not agree more, I am one that can not hear the difference but I wish I could. Everyone’s hearing is different. For example I study music always have for years and years. My music teacher, can listen to a piece, say it is in this key, they are playing this kind of chord in this inversion. Sure I can tell a Major from a Minor by ear, but I could not tell you if it is a D or a E, to me they are just higher or lower pitched. So that is on my hearing and the way my brain processes the input. Point 2 I don’t think I have ever had could enough equipment that cables would make that much difference. Point 3 and to your point, dang age, yes I am 66, have had my hearing tested, and I now have a roll off at 8K bummer, but what are you going to do. Long and short, I do believe there are people that can hear the difference, I wish I was one, but sadly I am not.
It takes a great deal of maturity to admit a physical shortcoming with such grace and a lack of animosity. Well done, sir. I'm sure you enjoy your music all the same and that, in the end, is the real goal.
Great video. If cables are now your bottleneck, you must have quite a set-up.
I have expensive cables and was going to buy more for my second set-up in my office when I stopped and asked myself what I was doing. I realized that I wasn't listening to music anymore. I was listening to my sound system. I ended up buying just decent cables and respected the sound that was coming out for what it was,, music.
I pretty much gave up on searching for sound ( I have a more than decent set-up) and began spending that money towards records that I thought too expensive when I was spending 2k on a Zu Denon cartridges ;)
My 35 years of high end experience and diy, good sound of cables is keeping the electronic amps, sources and so on from getting sidetracked from signal by their inadequacies related to their length.
speaker cables: most people think about resistance, some about capacitance. My experience is: The main problem is the low impedance of some 2 to 8 ohms, which is an all in all low value. Cable impedance in this low type of speaker impedance is affecting the signal of the negative feedback line inside the amp, mostly in frequencies far above 50kHz. Some amps get a bit on the unstable side depending on the type of cable (esp. high capacity cable like coax) because the output coil (if there is any) and the Zobel filter are not able to get rid of all of these HF-signals. So there is a small affect on the sound left. See the cable and the amp as a whole, the cable affects the feedback line of the differential input in the amp. That system amp/cable is what makes different sounds. To solve this special relationship of a special type of amp and a special type of cable with a special length, you can spend a lifetime. Every time you change cable or amp, you can start from the beginning. Only systematics and some basic knowledge help, especially because some cable producers make fancy plugs and covers, but the don‘t tell you basic electric values of their cables. Try to find out capacitance per mtr/ft of some cables from well regarded companies! In most cases you won‘t or have to measure for yourself.
line cables: most line amp output stages (sources, preamps) are not low impedance enough (most cases 50ohms to 2kohms) not to be affected by phase shifts of cable impedance (in most cases cable capacity). When using a high impedance output source or pre, try a low capacity cable first. The lowest capacity cable I know are the dnm two wire cables. With a preamp with could drive a loudspeaker by pushing 1000mA in a cable, the different cable sound of different cables beginns to fade.
Digital cable: this is all a question of keeping the impedance of 50/75/100 ohms from the last active electrical part inside the source device to the first active electrical part inside the following device. A wrong cable, a wrong plug or socket, a wrong soldering, a torn cable? Back to start! It‘s 100% physics and calculation + good craftsmanship + care… otherwise you have reflections of signal in the connection. This is audible.
You put into words what I've been trying to for a long time. Excellent video, well spoken, and yes, let's respect differing views on topics like this. It's supposed to be fun! Today I was playing around with different styli for my basic Audio Technica AT-VM series, the elliptical, nude elliptical, and shibata; they all sound a bit different and excel at different things. Very fun and rewarding. I have a pair of GR Research speakers, which I've spent a lot of time setting up so I can really hear the depth, height, and width beyond the speakers soundstage, without losing the vital center image. Makes it so much easier to find the details that make a difference, and it acutely increases the listening enjoyment.
That's what it's about. Trying out different things to see what you like.
Hear! Hear! I’ve never understood how something so innocuous could generate so much animosity. This is such a subjective hobby with limitless permutations of equipment. I just can’t see how a personal choice can cause all this fuss. Especially when there are real issues at stake like choosing between silver or black finishes.
Some people collect stamps. Go figure.
Great video and analysis. I sold audio back in the 80's. Since then and being an audiophile I have always felt cables were somewhat subjective. I personally believe they can make some difference but as you said it depends. It depends on many factors. Personally I have always bought well made cables that were affordable to match the cost of my equipment. It doesn't make sense to me to put more money into my cables than into my equipment. I think you have find a balance. That being said, why would you buy really expensive gear and use the least expensive cables. My analogy would be, don't put retreads on a new Corvette. Put capable tires, but it doesn't necessarily need to be the most expensive available either.
A fair point.
Tools (that aren't your ears) have limited usefulness in determining what registers w/ you as a music listener. None of the testing equipment in the presentations I've seen can tell the difference between a cello and a clarinet or even a B3 organ and a Strat. Most casual music listeners can spot the differences between these instruments in a second or two with almost no conscious effort. It's also generally very easy for people to tell difference between a well recorded instrument and one that was poorly recorded. The measurements held up by "objective" reviewers often miss the boat where it matters most, as a result their ill informed conclusions about music reproduction miss the mark.
An interesting assessment.
I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but it definitely makes sense to me that anything that can affect the electromagnetic field in or around the signal path could therefore affect the sound.
That's what I've discovered.
Spot on comment on cables. I think people are just too loyal to their camp to try it. Personally, no. No cable swap will have a tremendous impact, as a speaker swap for example (at least not if you’re swapping between the two opposites of the quality table). But there are differences to be heard. The law of diminishing returns apply heavily on the cable topic IMO, but if you’re chasing that last 0,1% improvement, maybe that’s something you want to look into. I try to get decent cables, but I won’t spend thousands on them… there are too many records missing from my collection to spend that kind of money on cables 😜
When you having a system over 100K you really start to notice very significant changes in cables. When I had a 5k system I didn't notice anything no matter what I tried.
Wow, what an incredible video. I've always liked a lot of what Danny says and I think he really didn't come across that well in "the video", but he's otherwise a really kind and knowledgeable guy. Most of what he says makes total sense to me. And kudos for you for actually going there with an open mind. Awesome all around.
I'm glad you liked it.
👍Bravo
My ears are now old & roll off at 12K hz & I’m stone deaf after 15K nothing like my youth @ 22.5 K hz and I literally hear bugs walking and couldn’t even have any kind of mechanical clock and wristwatch and most electrical clocks. I would hear the watch Second hand move even buried inside a sock under clothes in a drawer on the other side of the room and the electrical hum from all transformers in electrical devices that had to covert 120v down to lower voltage DCV.
Trying to sleep was torture for me even my own hart beat.
Believe me there are so many things people call snake oil. That not just can but absolutely do make a big or settle difference.
Missing instruments or notes then change a component and it’s there but other people say they can’t hear it. A music page being flipped during a recording. The sound of silk or Blue jeans rubbing up against a cello in a passage. The sound of lips parting or the saliva breaking as the mouth parts.
The sound of a musician skin on a string instrument , dry skin or smooth skin. The long continuous tone from a single pluck of a cello string that stops on a normal system after a second but on a good system you or some people can hear it go on for 3 seconds.
It’s in some way nice I lost some of my hearing I can sleep at night. I no longer need super high end equipment. I do like building my own class A amps and pre amps love that sound.
One of my three son suffers from same hearing problem I had when I was younger. He need to unplug rodent and bug ultra sonic pest deterrent devices when he enters a home if he needs to stay there.
Just think of all the money you save in hifi equipment because you don’t have sensitive hearing. Think of it as a gift.
Having ultra sensitive hearing is a curse to.
Like hearing you neighbor turn on their tv next door or across the street. The high pitch start up sound before the tv actually turns on.
It’s like if the world was fill with color blind people and you were the only person who see all colors.
And every one tells you you crazy or lying because you describe other colors they can’t see.
We are NOT all created equal .
Same goes for smell, taste and touch.
There are some people that are just off the chart for certain senses.
We always appreciate your honest perspective. I hope your words elevate the level of discussion in our hobby. Well done.
Thanks, Ed. I appreciate your support.
The Big Misconception About Electricity - Veritasium. Everyone needs to watch that video, because everything we were taught or knew about AC signals through a wire was wrong. After knowing how things actually work, its easier to imagine how wires could make a difference.
I'll have to look that up.
Its fascinating. But also mind bending at the same time. I promise its worth the watch. @@thevinylattack
Thank you for making the trip and posting your experiences. Feel free to make a follow up with more observations. I appreciate that your answer on 'do cables make a difference' is 'that depends'. I also back your statement that what 'you' hear or don't hear does NOT define what I can or cannot hear. Sadly, some cannot accept this and think that what they do not hear defines what others CANNOT hear and said effect CANNOT exist. Often when comparing different items (cables, DACs, whatever) others will comment on the 'huge' difference when I hear little or no change. I have come to accept this and that I cannot tell them what they are or are not hearing. Things like cable risers seem silly to many of us but I have come to accept that they may make a difference, even if I have not (yet) heard it. What IS silly is the prices that some boutique sources charge for a bunch of small wood blocks or other such things.
Thanks again for this very rational response to Danny's (contentious to some) video and invitation.
A very even tempered attitude. You're certainly right about some of the trinkets being over priced.
I guess I wonder about cable risers and what is under the floor, I mean if there’s no wiring under the floor, then your suspended floor is a cable riser in itself
With the theory that the cable touching the floor is causing the supposed interference, I don't know that it matters what's under the floor itself. But that's just a guess.
When I got back into this hobby, all the animosity between "camps" was really off putting. I am glad there are movements in the community now to at least to build bridges instead of resorting to name calling and negative labeling. I think especially the pros and experts have responsibility. What they say or don't say, and how they say it will be escalated in the comments like a mine field and things eventually become extremely polarized. Not to excuse the average person either, we need to act our age. In the end, this hobby is about fun and should not always be taken that serious. Thanks for a great video Chris, very eloquently laid out - as always.
Thanks, that's just what I was after. I'm glad it came through.
No matter what people say about Danny the people that have visited him have heard these differences, been in the Hi Fi trade my self for 40years now retired heard others experimenting with cables and different components in amplifiers from the 1980's we could here clear improvements with "normal' measurements showing no differences .I t depends how good your system is at total resolving the captured recorded sound if no improvement dont buy the product I think Danny does sale or return you cant be more honest than that!
I tend to agree.
They only do because they want to or because he paid them, he has yet to bring someone on that's against him or at least someone who's not a high end shill
Chris, once again I want to thank you for your straightforwardness and your honesty when making your videos. I have to admit my cables are extremely cheap. I had the chance a few weeks ago to spend $60 on an audio quest cable to use between my phono pre and receiver, or spend that $60 on an audio file record. I only chose the album because I would hate to spend money and here no results. I do believe in cases different cables can make a system sound better but I have not pulled the trigger yet. When I do purchase the cables I will let you know if it made a difference. Again thank you for your honesty and your videos.
Either way you spend your money, as long as you're happy, it's a win. I look forward to hearing about your experience with cable swapping.
I bumbled my way through a bachelors degree in physics, taking 4 years to complete the 3 year program. In my final year I spent a lot of time in labs earning a few dollars guiding 1st year students through the classic lab experiments.One thing I find frustrating is how a vast number of people (likely with little of no experience in a lab dealing with scientific instruments trying to take measurements) have such profound, even religious faith in the capability of scientific data gathering equipment. My theory is that a life of exposure to science fiction and the use of 'science' as a marketing tool, has created a very distorted perception in the minds of most, concerning what measurement can and can't reveal. They have no idea how many countless ways the process of attempting to isolate and measure various properties, can turn pear shaped. My analogy to people who believe they can measure the conductivity of a cable and therefore know its performance, is like dropping a line over the side of a boat to measure the depth, and then believing you know everything about the ocean. current, or electrical signal is so much more than electrons wiggling around in a wire. The fields created by current, the frequency dependant effects of impedance and reactance, the dielectric properties of materials these fields pass through, all combine to create a highly complex electrical system that dictates the end signal. Measurements are useful, but people have to understand their limitations.
Careful, Mark. You're making using logic and making sense here. You may put a target on your back with that kind of decorum ;-)
So measurements are fine but we may not have enough of them.
@@howard5992 or really even know what they mean. A flat FR curve tells us that the signal out corresponds to the signal in, but tells us nothing about how the signal has been tortured in the crossover network to achieve that response curve.
I LOVE THE MESSAGE IN THIS VIDEO!!! Literally the attitude behind the subjective opinions of all the different options we have to choose from makes me so sad and almost embarrassed to be a part of the community. Thank you for reminding me there ARE level headed people that are obsessed with audio equipment, you give the community hope🙌
Happy to be a reminder.
What did his system sound like? I thought that you would have made at least one comment about it.
It was pretty impressive.
Man. You are good. Like… really good. Thank you for this video.
I'm glad you liked it.
We said.
Bravo!!!
Kudos Chris for succinctly putting to words the intelligent conclusion for salient facts about this debate.
Now can we get to the important argument . . . which sounds better vinyl or digital ? And my wife queries. . . how can I hear differences in cables when I cannot hear her from the kitchen. Again it depends . . . I posit that all those counter top appliances certainly emit RF interference that in some immeasurable way counter her intelligent transmissions. Although I have come to understand when she is screaming about a spoon rattling around in the garbage disposal, it means she would rather I put my hand in there to retrieve it as opposed to her. On the other "hand" I don't understand why she doesn't comprehend my command to take her hand off the operating switch and back away ? Not telling her twice would be nice . . .
That's a whole different video.
Since you Like the Perceived sound effects of "tone" coloring componets (X-Over caps, coils, wire, terminals & Tinker Toys,.....Definitely include & use a < $ 200 > 10 Band EQ !!! ...That way, you can economically make whatever you have sound like Anything you prefer......Not joking.....Short of Amp clipping, It Really works & you can Endlessly "Tweak" your sweet spot sound for no more expen$es !!!
Love the discussion on adults. I think its a major problem, and have personally received death threats for less. I threw my hat in the ring with my own power cable video. But it's good to know where people stand. Cables do matter. Without them, we are not going to have much music. I do not recommend spending money on premium cables, because they just don't deliver enough value. And I'm a bit discuraged by the safety issues with some of these cables. Also, without the ability to pick out a cable without ABX, how is a cable to be engineered?
I think premium cables deliver excellent value, depending on your system at home.
"Placebo is a hell of a drug"
I wouldn't know.
Terrific video and commentary. You should see if you can arrange a trip to Odyssey Audio. Klaus is another great, personable guy (whom I've met) who sells some of the best bang for the buck amps out there......plus some really high end stuff from Symphonic. He also has some really excellent speakers. Not an affiliate, just a happy customer.
And there are no digital signals on a cable, there are just voltages and they are basically analog. Have to be sampled and quantified to decide if they indeed are a zero or a 1.
Did you just start a sentence with a conjunction?
@@thevinylattack I did. A non-native English speaker I am 😀. And it was kind of a response to my own previous post ..
Whoops I did it again!
I have 2 XLR cables, AQ Earth's and AQ McKenzie's. I was going to sell my Earth's because they are expensive and I didn't want money tied up in a cable that makes little to no difference. I switched to the McKenzie's and my wife and I were immediately shocked. The 3d image collapsed, the sound became less smooth, grainier, and edgier. As I listened for an hour or so it started becoming unbearable compared to the Earth's I just couldn't continue. I immediately switched back to the Earth's, and the smooth luscious sound returned. From my own personal experience, how revealing a system is dictates how much of a difference you hear.
Thank you for the presentation. Clearly microphones can pick up some things that the human ear cannot. This is simply objectively verifiable. Hope you do well on the journey....
Bravo. Well done. Good advice for any reviewer or connousieur would be to realize you don't know what you don't know. Always assume that someone else MIGHT know something you don't. Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
Don't know if anyone will read this this far on from putting it on view but.....basically, you're saying different, but that certainly doesn't mean better, which I can agree to. I worked for Noel Lee at the very inception of Monster Cable, and it was all a complete fraud. He had gotten some clear jacketed wire with a lot of conductors (365 to be exact) and took it to a show and woo woo a "new component" voila! we had a box that we used at some little shows (before CES) in SF with "Monster Cable" and some lamp cord. from the amp to the speakers Before both pieces of wire exited the box the lamp cord was hidden from view and there was a resistor in place. Well naturally a difference. The part for MC is long over, so really who cares. Different??? Is that necessarily better??? It's all kind of taste isn't it too??The wine thing. The sensational fraud that took place just shortly ago over oenophilia. A guy was caught with bottles fake labels and all of the necessities (and THIS GUY was considered one of the leading experts of $$$$$$$$$ wine and was considered a major source of the stuff) The fake Jackson Pollock that came on the market out of nowhere, that a gallery sold to some parvenu (actually more than one) is an example of deception, and not saying that the Coppola wine didn't taste good. Hell, I'm a bit of a hypocrite as I have some OCC cable
In 1994 I built a couple of Audio Note parallel 300b single ended triode amps. They were called the Kit 3 - I took them over to a guys house. He had some Beauhorn Virtuosos. During listening he said I found this changes the sound. He folded some card into upside down V shapes and lifted the cable. I remember thinking.. are you kidding me… I can hear it.,not subtle. So to me cable lifters are capable of changing the sound. Will you like it, will they in your system.. who knows. Try it and see. Cables can and sometimes do change the sound
I think the best way to deal with cables is the DIY route: buy bulk cables and connectors from leading Japanese brand with an excellent reputation for engineering and value for money pricing: Furutech. That way you can assemble $2,000+ cables for a fraction of the price by using your own labour or that of a friend with good hands. Furutech makes some of the most high tech power connectors and XLR connectors in the business, and also puts all of its cables (even the bulk ones) through a two-stage cryogenic and demagnetization Alpha Process", so the components are very close to the best of the best. All you need to do is put them together yourself.
Cheers Chris. I've been into hifi for 30 years. Early days I just used the cheap cables, I'm a straight shooting, science loving guy and i didn't believe they could make a notable difference to justify the money. Then you discover Gene and your stance firms.
Then one day I was at a guy's house/shop buying a set of ATC 40's. He forced a few different cables into my hands and told me to go and have a play. I did so just out of curiosity (not expecting to hear much difference) but I did. Bloody hell, very annoyingly I heard better detail and a nicer, smoother sound. I then spent about $270 on cables and I'm happy that I did. I love what I have.
Once you hear it, you can't un-hear it.
I go back time and again to an article many, many, too many years ago where a noted audio magazine did a very good blind test with Monster cable and 16 or 14 gage SO cord. This was before the cable manufacturers started spending $s on advertising in their magazines. They used both music and pink noise. They had at least 10 but I believe closer to 15 reviewers. The results--only 2 of the reviewers could statistically tell a difference in the sound with the 2 cables-both of these people were under 20 and could only tell a difference with pink noise. And…….only one, a 15 year old girl with ears I could only dream of having, could, after being told which cable was which, correctly identify the cable she was listening to-again, only with pink noise. Sorry, duplicate something like this and I will become a believer. There is a reason bind listening test are no longer in vogue-they give a result that contradict what people want to believe.
Pandoras box was stuffed with HiFi cables it seems. I find the FireWire cable story both puzzling and frustrating but not so surprising after all. Especially if this was before the DAC in the chain of events. One guess would that the buffers and protocols were forced to work differently in the timing domain. My guess also is that you won't be able to measure it, but as you said, you can hear it. Our ears are a fun device. And this could be exeplified by the old question; If a tree falls in the forrrest but you're not there to hear it, does it make any sound a all? The answer is in fact NO, it does not (filosofers have been debating that for thousands of years, but the answer is rather simple). The falling tree does (at least most likely unless we deny our own existance and claim we live in a simulation (an entirely different discussion altogether)), create a disturbance in the surrounding air or "ether" in the shape of a wave propagating through it like when a stone is thrown in water. But because sound is a function of interpretation of the waveforms meeting your sensing organs which in turn are interprated inside your brain, and not being an independant free standing entity by it self with it's own life in it's own right so to speak. And since everyones ears are just a bit different, much like a fingerprint, the perceived sound is as individual as the fingerprint or ear for that matter. Not even mentioning our brains here to add to the compexity and individuality. Or would anyone even venture into a discussion if our brains work differently? I think we all know the answer to that one, and I rest my case your honor. I completely agreee with your statement - it depends. On a lot of different factors and variables too. A great presentation, succinct, articulate, engaging and positive. Keep up the good work!
So is it the cables or possibly the connectors for these cables? The cables themselves might matter in that they have some impedance and might add some coloration to the sound, but like you said, it is super marginal...so much so that you don't always hear the difference. There are tons of other things that matter in terms of sound too in your system. If you can't always tell the difference, imo the difference is super marginal, and might not be worth it. Your wine example doesn't apply. Same alcohol content and grapes doesn't mean they measure the same. The barrels in which they are fermented, any additives that are added - the grapes themselves even from the same bunch taste very different many a times...all these factors affect the taste.
Having a belief that this review is tainted after becoming personal friends with Danny and his family actually holds alot of weight. By you even bringing it up verifies that this review in FACT is tainted by that interaction with Danny and his family. You made yourself look guilty by admitting such interaction existed and helped you by saving you money.
You don't need to go overboard on interconnects. But why cheap out when it comes to cables if your system costs several thousand dollars. You don't need to spend a bundles on cables, but why use off the shelf. Splurge a little. At a minimum, they will look better.
Greetings from Ireland. Loving the Guinness poster behind you 😄
in my pinion ! the ONLY way to tell if cable maters : swap them blindly . go swap one rca (audioquest for nodost for esemple) without the owner nowing it ! of course everything is iding in a cabinet
Ok ,I just watched a bit, so I will chime in before I hear the rest. I have been commenting for years, and many times, when i show proof, when i bring up another view, I get some lip service from the content creator or one of his 'followers'. Now from whatever side we come from, this is the Internet, and not one of those people have walked to me and had that same energy in person. I concur that NO ONE should be talking anything on YT they will never say to that person's face, and I stand by that. In fact, I have run into a few people in person, who were yapping online, and it went fine, because that online energy vanished immediately.
See, here is the thing..It's audio and components, and no matter what is on paper, people will have their preferences and have the right to them. That means it you use $20 cables and you are fine with the, they are for YOU. You spent your money, your energy, your time, and you do not have to put up with someone saying expensive nor cheaper cables suck. We have the same exact thing going on in the photography world, where people get stuck on one brand or format, and seek to bash the other. It's so damn stupid because we can buy and use different formats and brands at the same time and still make money.
I cannot speak for anyone else, yet I am not going to sit here and have anyone threaten me or call me out simply because I do not agree with them. I mean grow up, respect other views, and understand that on both sides. If we all had to say whatever we say on RUclips IN PERSON or if we had to share our addresses, 99% of these conversations would be way different.
What do i use? Whatever works , what I can afford, and what helps my systems. I have both a production setup and a live recording setup, so I use audio gear like power amps mixed with studio mixers, studio monitors, home speakers, samplers, computers(Mac/PC),tape recorders, and digital recorders/samplers. NO I do not have a 'listening room' and no one except maybe one person I know has one, because most of us are either mobile or moving around the house/streets hearing music.
Cables are part of the signal path and can influence sound through interaction with the signal source and destination impedance. They also can affect the level of noise entering the signal path and provoke instability in the drive circuitry through capacitive and / or inductive loading. So in essence, yes cables can make a difference and sometimes a significant difference. The higher resolution your audio system is capable of, the more you will be able to notice the effect a cable may have. Digital cables can influence sound through noise introduction and create digital signal errors which are very audible if they can't be corrected by the receiving component and DAC. Many times this is through the mechanism of internal reflections of the digital signal which can introduce timing errors and increased jitter. Speaker cables can affect the sound simply by the increasing skin affect shifting the phase up in higher frequencies. The conductor diameter also matters and bigger isn't better in most cases, unless you need to drive very low impedance loads with alot of current. I don't believe in most of the marketing claims many companies make with their cables. Often, they don't want to reveal their gimmics with proper science attached to it. The other issue is most people don't want to deal with a stiff garden hose like cable that will be difficult to route and place, plus the connectors on the equipment can be unnecessarily strained by the often unreasonably massive diameter cables pulling on them. This includes the overly tight fitting connectors often found on high end cables that can ruin the connector itself. So do cable make a difference? Yes, but within scientific reason.
Fun video, thank you. I use 2 different sets of speaker cables in my system; one sounds warmer than the other. There is a clear difference in the sound to me. My brother, who loves and plays music, can not hear a difference. Seems weird to me....
Hi Chris - I just discovered your channel, thanks to Danny. I'm impressed by your spoken work - very stylish in a literary way. In a recent video, Danny referred to your imminent visit as I'm sure you're aware, so I decided I needed to discover your channel. KUDOS!
Amongst many other tweaks I've experimented with in my 53 years in this wonderful hobby of ours, cable risers is my latest and in my revealing and carefully matched system, I immediately heard a difference which I characterize as an improvement. Freer extreme highs, faster transients as well as a better soundstage and imaging. I think it's no surprise that many high-end systems have cable risers. I made my own from oak offcuts so they color-match my wooden flooring.
A previous tweak is decoupling the loudspeakers from the floor, which I tried after watching Max Townshend's convincing demo on RUclips. I was gobsmacked what a difference this made, liberating the high mids and top end and cleaning up the bass. Imaging made a big step in the right direction too. Previously I had been a spike disciple.
And yes, of course in this system and with ears used to 53 years of critical listening in a revealing high-resolution system, despite my ears' worsening frequency response cables DO make a difference!
Wishing you all the best, especially years of musical pleasure, Rob in Switzerland
I appreciate the kind words, Rob. Thanks for sharing your experience.
You can't always measure what you hear. Its not because there isn't a difference, its because the difference is so small that measuring equipment can't pick it up. Sometimes that's due to noise effecting the measurement but also due to other variables in the measurement process used. The human ear can be incredibly sensitive to sound subtleties. For instance, there are amplifiers that measure text book perfect and sound worse than amplifiers with significantly higher distortion, noise and other abnormalities. There is so much more to explaining sound than measurements can reveal and the preferences are subjective in nature thanks to our own human interpretation affected by our emotions, experiences and physiology.
Novel very novel truth be told cables may make a difference or not thank you I've sed this for along time oh ya the price of tinker toys just went up ahhh. Shhhh don't tell them....peace
My Ohno spkr cables are supported by two shortened bamboo skewers crossed and inserted into glue filled holes of small wood blocks made of maple for stability. Simple.
I find it crazy that people believe it makes no difference. Wearing a hoody vs a T-shirt makes a difference. I bought Maze Ref4 power cables literally just for looks, that was literally the only reason.... And they made my system sound different. It's my dirty little secret I've never shared publicly but it is what it is. I also know cable orientation makes a difference but I've got a snake pit behind my rack because it's "good enough".
It's a never ending discussion, that's for sure.
I keep power cables and signal cables apart. I find shielding is important. I also found keeping my speaker cables off my carpet on low resonance blocks. All these things made a difference. Cables on carpets result in change in capacitance.
That's pretty much what I took away from them as well.
People avoid admitting that every component in the chain affects the sound. Some more than others, but if you put plastic tyres on a racing car, it will not perform good. Its a *system* and we should treat it like one.
Cables shouldn't matter as long as they're proper Guage wires but they do for some reason. At least a lot of people who use premium cables seem to think so. I don't know.
What I'd really like to see is the machine that weaves Danny's speaker cables. Or does he buy them that way and just resell them?
Listen to music, not gear.
Listen to what makes you happy.
When the gear gets in the way of the music, it gets upgraded.
But, you're right. Too many people listen to the hi-fi. You can tell - all they mention is highs, lows, bright, etc. What I'm after is the tone of the guitar, to understand what's being sung, to hear the emotion in the singer, for the rhythm to make me want to dance, etc. Listen for this, and you'll end up spending a fortune on hi-fi, and being very annoyed at the quality of recordings...
It is really some time ago I heared stuff more simplistic which claims to be arguments. Good grief.
The Scorpions and Deep Purple at the 85 Texas Jam are the reason why cables and high end equipment don't mater to my dang near deaf butt
I agree - it depends...
For example phono cables:
With MM cartridges, the cable capacitance has an impact on the cartridge frequency response.
With LOMC cartridges, cable shielding can lower the noisefloor, since the low level signals have to be amplified a lot - any noise coming into the cable will be amplified a lot too, making the noise audible.
Ever had a slight hum coming from your turntable? Try a better shielded phono cable... chances are that the hum is eliminated or greatly reduced.
But as long as digital cables are up to spec, they shouldn't make any difference (i.e. buy proper USB/coax cables instead of generic OEM cables, but there's no need for anything extra fancy).
That's what I though about USB and Firewire too. Until I heard a difference. Crazy how the little things can work sometimes.
Sadly we live within an era that people cannot disagree in a civilized manner anymore. Instead its a professional wrestling Hell-In-The-Cell match in which there must be only one winner.
Yes. I said it. Social media is the Thunderdome of our Mad Max universe.
And we do understand the rules of the Thunderdome, don’t we? 🤪
Chris, as usual, did a smart job of presenting a position without alienating members of a community.
We all listen differently thus we have our own unique sensory abilities regarding how we listen to music. It’s one of the few dynamics in which everyone can actually be right at the same time from different perspectives.
But I will say this about Danny from GR Research and the video in question which caused lots of interesting responses. It’s very important to be aware, as a content creator, about how your messages are going to sound before you put them out there. Will everyone always be happy? Of course not, but…there is still an opportunity to minimize misinterpretations and that’s an opportunity for creators like Danny to consider moving forward and a learning opportunity for a great many.
Sometimes it’s the attitude that can get in the way of the message, but thats just me.
I can see where you're coming from and I think you've articulated it well.
That's right, age isn't the only factor that determines our hearing. Imagination is a much bigger one.
You too can have the best sound if you want to spend what is a mortgage for some
You can have world class sound for much less than you'd think.
I have Morrow Audio MA-1s which are bottom of the line for them. They sound pretty good. My Nagaoka MP-110 had an obnoxious hum and radio signal for a long time until I just got a proper phono cable in the form of the PH-1 on the U-Turn Orbit end and that somehow improved the signal-to-noise ratio and solved the issue. It is still there but it is extremely quiet and not really noticeable unless you really crank the volume and don't play anything. Fidelity is debatable but in this case cables definitely made a difference in terms of hum.
I'd say that's certainly a result.
I can respect the results of double blind tests. One very powerful aspect of human experience that is very real both in medical settings, sound, and taste is the placebo affect. It's not something that can be measured in the science of the field involved, but is rather brain science. Regarding cables that I know for a fact makes a difference is the audio input cables, most specifically RCA cables. The signals that they carry are very low amplitude signals and shielding plays a very large factor so they can certainly pick up a lot of noise that gets pushed into amplifier stages along with the desired signal. That said the difference between poor quality cables and 'good enough' cables can be anywhere from $10-$30.
Digital signals, are digital signals. It is likely there is a resister on that cable when facing one way which is meant for noise rejection due to the high bandwidth of digital communications. You only heard gain differences, that is it. That is normal practice with modern digital electronics. It is called impedance matching using a terminator resistor. Using your wine analogy... it is best to let an engineer who understands, who can look at the supposed system, analyze it, and come to something better then pseudo science.
Also
Bad cables, with cracks, or rubber insulation on old cables that went bad, especially on carpet, can cause distortions. Static electricity and bridging to ground will happen. You are unlikely to hear anything on properly insulated cables using PVC or Silicone.
Also
The over engineered crossovers are not the same. You can have the same value capacitors, but with a different ESR (internal resistance), which will cause gain in the frequency band. Those "high end" poly caps have lower ESR then electrolytic caps because of their higher cross section of material. If your tweeter is designed to have higher gain, with the "under engineered" crossover, they will sound... as you said... exactly the same because the frequency is exactly the same. The difference is gain. Also inductors with an iron core, act different then inductors with an air core, even though the inductance, voltage, and current ratings are the same. Again, resulting in audible differences which can be designed into the woofer by using a lighter / stiffer suspension, different air gaps, etc. It is synergy between the two that matter most.
A lot of mis information in audio these days. It is interesting to hear peoples pseudo science, but there is always a legitimate reason for sound differences that people who don't understand electronics miss.
The cables had no resistor, and the change was as clear as day. The cables Danny used were also far from cracked, damaged, or bad in any form. We'll have to agree to disagree about the rest because there's ample evidence out there to refute what your saying, just as there's evidence to support it.
Cables do matter however the percentage difference compared to cost might be the decider .
It's certainly possible.
The problem is there’s a ton of snake oil. People who do no research and just try to capitalize heavily on marketing claims. This is what leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many.
Danny does a good job of listening to things and experimenting with different combinations to find what works. This is the bare minimum anyone selling cables should do.
There is definitely too much junk on the market. It's a shame.
As a (currently) homesick Texan, welcome's to our world and thanks for bringing some decorum (and smoked brisket) to these issues. I love both digital and analog, MQA and MP3, streaming and locally stored (whether on a hard drive or from a non-static sleeve...). Belt drive or direct drive? Oh, God here comes the Ford v Chevy slingers.
It's all good, whatever you find to enjoy in your niche, experience and ability to afford. I have a nice pair of NADs (hey, I'm talking bout the C658 pre for one system and the T758 V3i for A/V...), some vintage Pioneer, Yamaha and Sansui receivers. Nice SVS towers, KEF LS50 bookshelf and vintage horn loaded 2 way Klipsch knockoffs (that sound simply incredible). Also have a crazy good 1980's Realistic receiver with some stupid good Daytons in the garage.
Do I prefer my beyerdynamics wired or Beat fit pros wireless? Depends on what I'm doing.
But the last thing on my mind when I'm enjoying any of my music equipment is how much smarter or better informed I am than someone else who uses something different.
Yes, my favorite overall medium is R2R over a class A amp into some 10" woofers with a horn....unless I'm driving. Or exercising. Or having guest over. Or....
I'm glad you found this video helpful in some regard. I think you're on to something with just enjoying the music you like with the system you have.
Agree. It depends. 25 years in the business: the equipment, various interactions, the room, the human factors, all contribute. Not all listeners listen the same.
Careful. With common sense like that, you're sure to be ostracized.
Bro, yer vids have built my system. I’m very grateful and am on the home stretch here… Pro-Ject debut carbon evo, ifi phono preamp, IotaVX SA3, QAcoustics 3050i (arriving Friday!)…. So, cables! Since I haven’t played a record on this system yet I’m hoping to pick up cables and start spinning this weekend. You’ve never given a bum steer. What cables do you recommend? And, generally, how close should a fella keep the speakers to the system? Dude yer channel is a pocket full of aces. Big ups! 👍🏼
Speaker placement is all about your room. Start out with a distance of six feet apart and go from there. Move them around. Closer to walls, further from walls, toe-in slightly, straight ahead. See what sounds best to you. Cables are a different thing altogether. I'd look at some affordable offerings with the system you have. There's no need to blow hundreds of dollars on cables. I'm trying out some QED speaker cable right now and quite like it. They're affordable too.
I will be 70 years old in 2022. Got married in 75'...bought a total Radio Shack system with wedding money including receiver, 16 gauge speaker wire, LAB turntable and, Nova 7 speakers. I was out shoveling snow in 82' and a neighbor came over to help. The neighbor asked me if I ever heard of "The Absolute Sound" which was published 4 times a year and had zero manufacturer equipment advertisements in it.....just reviews. TAS was using words like soundstage and imaging to describe the music I was hearing. I was hooked! What was my system's weakest link???? I had to fix it! I was a janitor and my wife was a teacher....not much money left after paying bills. I worked extra jobs like being in the cook section of my local PA National Guard so I could fix the weakest link in my system. I had friends at the National guard who were trying to fix their weakest link also. Misery loved company! I discovered that my weakest link in my sound system were the interconnects and speaker cables. I bought MAS ( Music and Sound) interconnects and Kimber Kable from my local dealer. I could hear a pleasing difference in the way my favorite music sounded. The treble frequencies sounded smoother and the midrange sounded fuller. My equipment had fixed AC cords back then. Now fast forward to 2022 that has equipment with interchangeable power cords. My current system has vintage Magnepan MMG speakers, second hand Parasound P5 preamp, Crown 2502 amp, Oppo 103 DVD player-streamer that plays TIDAL and Pandora. I use AudioQuest cables and the system just sounds right for these almost 70 ears. I tell myself that my system sounds best late at night. Maybe someday everything will be wireless!
It's always interesting to hear how people started out.