Love the react video, Mike! Thank you for checking it out! On the topic of environmental challenges, i should have gone into detail, but i think this could just be a simple thing that only happens in certain areas. And by going there, you pretty much know what you're signing up for. It's not something that randomly happens, and you're not expecting it. But I definitely agree with you that some of the risk should be other players. Perhaps at some point CIG can make pirating gameplay actually meaningful and worthwhile as well. I definitely agree though that all resources and materials should be useful in some way. Player refineries should absolutely be more effective and the more desired route as well. I honestly appreciate so much of your ideas that you have and your perspective.
16:24 In the caves we can have a substance that is ONLY found in very small amounts but would be vital for creating special components and crafting of bases and other things.. This way we would have people going into these mines!
Mining drones would be a good way of dipping into “hazardous mining” type gameplay where you might have an acid cave with toxic gas, and you could either buy a suit that’s resistant to the gas or a drone that’s able to be controlled from a safe space. That could also take into account signal range, drone fuel, speed, size, etc and I think it could be a really valuable use of drones
ha the mole would be out with its open turrets lol. but a bigger ship that uses seats and each operator flys around in a mining drone would be nice. like many small mining ships that unload after a certain time on the main ship
@@kalrex6615 its not valuable when you can make just as much or more collecting the the first thing you see and flying back cuz you full with just a few rocks
One thing, if anything, that SC needs which will tie in for Cargo, Salvage and Mining, is a proper economical 'boom' system, in which set materials have dynamic values based on demand. RMC and CMAT is always going to be in demand because of it being a basic material, however, materials that aren't harvested because they're not 'valuable' would benefit from a demand boom; for example, Orison could suddenly have a major demand for Tungsten or Copper, pitting it high up on the buying scale, giving people an incentive to go out and mine it at that time.
Since we're moving boxes by hand now, how about having mining bag be required to be unloaded off the ship and hooked up to the refinery extraction ports before going in and selecting your refining method. This would mean that you could swap bags at the mining location and have a transport ship take them in for refining.
From what they showed at the last citizen con, bases will have drilling operations, botony facilities, and production buildings for ships, weapons, armor, etc.
As an airline pilot, who flies about 99.5% of the flights event and drama free,,,, I'd be very happy if there were "gameplay loops" as you call them, which don't involve drama or hardship. We dont need as many challenges as they portray. Just let me fly around in space. Fuck!!!
i enjoy everything about mining except how difficult it is to find rocks worth a shit. increase spawn chance of rare minerals. nothing crazy, just better than it is now.
@@lolsalad52 The issue is, those resouces with low profit margins, are never hauled. I agree some of this is will be addressed with crafting, where a ton of low profit materials is required to build basic things, and the high profit will be used sparingly in crafting. But, this then just changes what materials are ignored and which are sought after.
I enjoyed mining, when I played. It could be cause it was also the only real LOOT system they have in the game, even though it was eventually just for $
I've always wanted the loop to be less about just heating up a rock till it pops, and more like disecting / coring a apple. You want the apple's core, you can do the fast route of just cutting around the stem, but you're not gonna get everything. Or you can take your time and cut off the sides, being careful not to hit any gas pockets. This would allow all the different types of miner's to mine the same general size large rocks. You could be on foot and come across a 60 ton boulder that's got good stuff, but it's gonna take time using a hand held or Roc DS to really get at the good stuff. But also be available if you got a bigger ship from prospector to Orion. WIth the Orion you got that big physical drill bit to make carving out large chunks of the biggest rocks easier. Then use the tug's to scan and pull asteroids back to the orion. Also, if you're mining with a Arrastra or Orion, you might not get all the good stuff, you could have a crew of hand minders EVA's around getting the smaller bits off the asteroids, like gems and what not.
@13:20 and this could be a real EXPLORATION gameplay, you cruising 'round a planet or a moon, seeking for rich mineable areas, you put a beacon, and you are able to share it or sell it! Not much to add for a lot of actual gameplay!
Mining should include an exploration loop. Like, you prospect with an exploration ship for a much MUCH MUUUCH bigger spot than what we have today. Then you can sell it to miners or mine it yourself.... for hours.... days... weeks. And the Mole would be able to mine much bigger rocks than the Proc, but would require at least 3 people to mine it. For example, one would heat the rock with one laser, and another would stabilize it with another laser and they'd have to work together and the third would gather minerals as they're available while being careful to not gather too much (if at all) inert material. And you have a mandatory multicrew cooperative gameplay. And more importantly, you don't spend 80% of the time searching for a single rock or a tiny cluster that you'll never be able to find again anyway. You talked about the "why" in SC. I feel more and mole like there is no "why" in SC. They add a simple, unrefined, self sustained loop and are like "we'll see what we do with it later". I feel like they have no global vision for what SC should be. They just seem to go with the flow. I am more and more afraid that SC will always be a screenshot simulator with a few repetitive and rapidely boring gameplay loops and occasional (so called dynamic) events.
All i want for my base is: 1. A place where i can have all my ships and vehicles on display 2. A safe "warehouse" for my physical items Basically give me a bigger hangar. If I can craft there it's just a bonus because I think there will be a crafting ship.
All ships at display, for what? It just eats up resources and also imagine the hangar size of those who have dozens of ships or every ship... A hangar aint a museum, you can put useless stuff in ur hab when available, a hangar is just an automated garage, not a living space.
I always thought in the case of multicrew miners, it'd be more enjoyable for a crew if one/two people handled mining, one handled some sort've stabilization beam/sonic tool to help with more volatile rocks, and another sat inside processing the inert material for ejection via some sort of simple puzzle minigame that can increase/decrease overall material yield. That way the Prospector has it's role for mining singular, low-tier rocks, the Mole is there for multicrew volatile rocks, and so on.
Mole needs 1 mining and 2 supporting lasers. The 2 mining lasers can support in power, increase stability, decrease ressistance etc. And have their own minigame to apply the bonuses.
I agree. There should be a process to manage the bags. Either sorting or removing/dumping inert or any sort of ore. However you should need free space in the bags. So it can be pump from one bag to the other. Maybe only really efficient up until 3/4 used space.
8:35 actually thats not true, their is random environment conditions that can shake things up! Some places I have mined had a lot of gust of wind which made it hard to mine then it stops! and I can mine again. other places have no wind at all! so there is some things to shakes things up a bit. ( Unless he means something else OR he wants MORE ! things like hail storms or tornadoes ). Once Again I agree with Mike here! what is needed at the moment is connectivity to other game loops so that they are connected and creates a need to go out and mine and do other associated events that make a fluidity within the game. The lack of it is what makes the present game seem empty and disjoined!
A solid continuous rock that the mole can harvest with either 2 mining heads and one extractor operator for speed, or three mining heads with drones collecting. I also see drones acting as mining gadgets that affect the resistance or stability etc. As to events the words "Gold Rush" where powerful back in the day maybe large deposits unearthed with people rushing to score a big pure load while others ignore the event and watch RUclips while basic mining.
Mining should entail scanning veins on the surface of planets that have/had water and volcanism (or similar Sci Fi concept). Mining should entail farming asteroids and rocks on and around moons or planets where collisions were involved in their formation or history. And, the composition of the system's star should impact what elements primarily make up the solar system's mining bounty. This is not perfect geology, astrogeology, or exogeology, but it would be very useful to the interlinking of Science gameplay, research and exploration and scanning, and looping that back into Mining.
The large fields of ores would would also give orgs something to fight over and give a PVP area for people to fight over. That would help add in the piracy and competition that they've been talking about for a while.
12:37 A little after kickstarter there was the mention that we could hire NPC's that could learn! ( get better ) as time progresses. with the present way of mining this could be possible for a npc to do! Then we could use our Human friends for ship defense and perhaps even ground mining with a roc which may prove more interesting in dangerous areas more then just being in a mining ship doing next to nothing!
15 year eve vet here with experience in both the bubble and was part of goonswarm before the fall of fortress Delve. This game is going to be smaller scale because manpower requirements for just about everything will be significantly more. In eve online you are just your ship. You don't have to manage what goes on or otherwise. The extent of your fear for loosing your ship is if you are flying something you can't afford to loose. Otherwise you can get blown up as much as you want without consequence. Star Citizen? Death of a spaceman plays a big role. You can't just sacrifice ships or fight without fear because the people who die will get permanent debuffs or worse. Any org conflict will have devastating consequences for the playerbase. I do hope there will be more to base building then something like Starfield... Since CIG already has modular architecture it would be nice to have a special subset of that able to be built in the same way for custom buildings and base modules. I do hope supporting structures can be built elevated from the ground. Would love to make an entire base on the side of a mountain with elevated paths and such connecting everything together.
responding to 40:38. i remember way back when runescape added the grand exchange and that update was quite literally a game changer for the reasons you touch on. i think an implementation of something along those lines -- a couple brick and mortar locations you actually go to per system -- would be fantastic. to immersify the experience and keep supply and demand from becoming a homogenous, globalized (galacticized?) uninteresting thing we can add logistics fees and the whole nine yards if youre trying to buy wares listed outside your current system, hopefully keeping at least the economies of each star you visit more-or-less unique
An inert material filter mod that could be purchased in game would be a small example of an upgradeable that could represent a bit of career growth in the game loop
I assume veins in the ground will be a thing for base building, so my hope is that eventually they'll be available for mining with a Prospector, Mole, etc as well. Tons of a material in a single place that you can just keep coming back to. Although it being focused on generally only being the cheaper ones with maybe a tiny bit of some better elements in there. Mostly geared towards collecting materials for crafting/base building vs actually making money.
mining idea: same as their quantum travel idea, you have to pay attention during a "lock-on" process. Similar to "keep it in the green" - you play the minigame long enough for the ship to synchronize the laser with the rock, then you can take your hands off and let it extract the goodies from the rock without having to crack it into pieces (so it works no matter how big the rock, no splitting!) Sync the laser, then hands off and let it fill the bags or eat the whole rock, whichever comes first. Laser stops when full.
Only downside to that is I think breaking the rocks to get a better percentage of the good ores is actually nice. Personally I think the idea would work well if they kept the rocks and left them as is as a way to get rarer materials. But then added veins of ores like they originally concepted that are more base materials (potentially those that will be used a ton in crafting/base building) but not as much of those rarer materials (maybe a small percentage but very little). This just takes some time to work through and extract so, like you said, you start it up and after a minute or so you can be hands off while it continues and then when you're full you head out to the refinery.
I just wish they had made better use of the space in the mole. Being able to dump inert and be able to swap saddle bags with a hauler to keep a mole in the field longer and provide more operations feel.
The MOLE is currently just 3 mining ships in one Hull basically. What if one person could do all the lasers BUT other stations added something, like you could have a buffer operator, sort the crap out manually, something you would have to forfeit if you run it solo. Have the engineering station balance the modifier attachment attributes and peak power output of the beams, increasing effectiveness and stability as a boost over running it solo and forfeiting some effeciveness. CIG need to get their heads out of their own backsides when it comes to thinking manual labour means multicrew and nerfs equals balancing.
Would love to see an Amazon implementation in SC. Where you could ask to get your items, bought from other players, delivered at your base or at a station (to hide your location). But those shipments are done by cargo hauler players. Wanna see a hull a delivering stuff to my base
@mike, I wish there was an operator seat where a person could actively eject non valuable minerals from the input stream before it enters the saddle bag with a similarly tactile experience to mining
26:30 id personally go with both, if you fuck up mining you both deminish the quality of the material and reduce the amount you get out of it, however for 99% of stuff you only need the lowest quality level, be it building and whatnot, but some special items need the highest quality material to be crafted, stuff like mastercrafted weapons or ship coatings or whatnot, so more decorative, status type stuff. Or better yet, have specific craftable goods that are mostly there to be sold, like jewlery, or if you want it simpler do like StarSector and have ''luxury goods'' be a specific type of box that just exists to be sold for a higher amount than other stuff. And those goods do need the best material, its your 24 carat gold ring with a perfect diamond on it or whatever Idk tho as long as they do the bare minimum with an economy system im good
That's what I was expecting for mining as well, the ability to Mark a location. so that even if I'm not a miner I could still be in that Chain by selling locations. Then I never thought about finding large groups on planets but more finding large groups out in space of rocks that were rich in ore that would take multiple trips to clear out
Crafting needs to be linked to insurance. The factories that currently sell ships should have a limited stock. Depending on the ship will determine how many of those they have in stock. They could have a thousand starter ships. But something like a constellation they might only have 100 in stock. This would be dependent on player count. If you have a 100,000 players sharing the same store 100 of a common ship might not be enough. As the amount of ships in stock goes down the value of those ships go up. The NPC factories can only build so many ships per day. But they also need the ore on hand. Which means cargo haulers and minors need to bring more to the factories when they need it. When the factory is running low on ships they will put out orders to players to build them ships and drop them off. If the factory runs out of ships then you are not able to buy that ship nor is your insurance able to give you that ship back. Instead you get put into a que. At the same time not including insurance, for you to buy that ship if they are out it might cost you 40% more than the normal cost.
Back to mining as a side note I think every ship should be able to mine any size Rock. For example a prospector mining a large rock, if that rock would normally break into 7 pieces then the prospector can only break one piece off at a time
How to make mining better: More mining ships, being able to refine your own material, and being able to move ore bags around as cargo. That’s all I think they need to do to mining before 1.0
I wanna see big minig ops, where scanning ships look for good spots to mine, then the miners come in and mine and haulers move the cargo so the mining ships can stay in the belts, and have a combat ship or 2 protect the op
CIG can easily implement crafting. All they do is allow you to be an aftermarket crafter for a known company. You can craft and possibly enhance an existing product you can find in the game to a higher grade based on blueprints and items you find. Your name is now known for the things you craft for that manufacturer. Much like how AMD and NVIDIA let other companies make versions of their products.
IMO, there should be super rare materiels you can find only when you break appart some basic minerals. They would be invisible because they would be inside the rocks themselves or maybe you could get a clue there's something but odds should be set to encourage players to mine basic materials. Same rule could also apply to hand mining. Maybe you'd get higher chances of finding diamonds or what ever the rare materials would be.
Agree on not having random events in mining, because you know the random event would be a NPC pirate cutlas spawning and attacking, because for CIG everything seems to come back to combat.
They should copy no mans sky where you can summon fighters to defend you. A rich enough mineral baron should be able to throw money at the problem. Drown the pirates in gladius fighters. If you don't want to fight you shouldn't have to if you've put in the time and grinded money. Would also make pirates think twice about attacking people
@@aguy446 How about hiring a Combat pilot to babysit you? I would not mind protecting a miner if an enemy spawned every now and then for me to shoot at. But atm the enemy will ignore me and just keep shooting at the Miner till he explodes or just ram and finish him of regardless of what a fighter does to protect the miner. Nodes that are very profitable and very dangerous cause of enemy spawns would make the cooperation viable between a fighter and a miner..
@@tilemacro Sure that could be the cheaper option. Summoning escorts with money should be dumb expensive but it should be an option. Maybe none of your friends are online and you can't trust anybody to escort you. After all, a member of a pirate org will probably be the first to offer an "escort" then stab you in the back
@@tilemacro That would make sense in some lawless areas with a lot of pricey stuff where some org would go with bunch of miners and fighters to mine (or hire some miners/fighters with reasonable reputation) -high profit, high risk, large budget, planning required in other places there could be areas that you need to find and mine in with not much risk of being attacked (maybe some system where people that do theft are hunted and fought off at jumpgates so they can't easily enter) but whole system is taxed and you have to pay customs when taking stuff out -variable profit, almost no risk, small budget, market observation required for larger profit (system focused on risky smuggling gameplay for high income) or 3rd option large inifinite nodes owned by corporations heavily guarded by turrets/npcs/hired players, with large rafineries/warehouses really close -solely mining gameplay, stable medium-low reputation based profit, small risk (only large organized org attacks), small budget or no budget with low profit
@@tilemacrohow about taking a page out of Elite Dangerous’ book and make specific hotspots that have higher yields of specific materials but have AI Pirates and/or Security randomly drop in and scan the player for either valuables if pirate or crime stat if Security. Best part is players can do bounty hunting in those hotspots since pirates spawned there. I used to go there for the combat not mining Sometimes an AI mining ship would be there and would call for help if an AI pirate scanned him
I bet when crafting and base building is in the game, we will need tons and tons of probably each materials. As such, what currently is worthless might have some real value later on and it is then us players who decide whether to make mony out of it or use it for our homes. There will be probably new materials added to the game as well as currently we do not have wood, planks and what not, which might be used for furniture and the like.
Funny thing is that mining was my first branch off after courier. Mining was too exciting so went back to stringing courier contracts together lol! Know it's there tho. The biggest issue with mining is that it's not designed well for group gameplay. The ability to replace full bags with empty ones is a great step, but the deposits are basic af and give no real incentive to work as a group of miners working together hand mining, ROC mining, and Mole mining. Would make the difference between selling information about a rock and selling information about a mining site.
I have not tried to mine yet Since the New Patch we got the Hangars, but U don't Just land and Sell to the Station anymore ? Or u just land and offload the Boxes to your Hangar, then Sell them ?
Agree whole heartedly about crafting and player economy. Eve, for all its' faults, nails this. Blueprints and player crafting, alongside mining, make a real player-driven economy.
Mining is the loop with the biggest time sink in the game and only loop that forces multiplayer Combat= fly to mission marker, kill Salvage= fly to or have salvage brought to you Medical= fly to target/ revive Cargo= fly to box put box in ship, deliver Commodities= same as above Refuel=Fly to stranded ship give fuel (go slow or blow up both ships?) Repair/rearm= Same as above Scanning= Who know
I don't want the primary risk to be the players. When you go to a certain area the first consideration should be, who are the locals? And then what do I need for possible player approach? Same with the introduced endgame. What I'm missing is why we build the star bases? Just for PVP fleet battles? I want there to be shifting lines of NPC terrorist and alien territories in human space. You need those fleets to push them back in first place and if you overdo the PVP, then you got no line of defence against the aliens, in order to maybe get to valueable recources or technology.
To be able to find a giant ore deposit on a giant asteroid or on a planet and actually be able to set up a small mobile base and spend a lot of time mining the whole deposit would be awesome. I’m talking like 10-100 million or more worth of ore to be mined. Even 500 million worth if using an orion. They should be large enough for an entire org to tackle and even have to bed log off and come back to continue mining the next day.
Salvage should be about going into ships and removing all the valuables and subsystems before hull scraping. Subsystems that are still functioning should be fixable and more valuable than hull scraping and that more valuable than the hull buy a lot.
Better quality and handling = more gained is the way to go as said. That also corresponds with todays refineries: cheaper = less skilled = less gained. I also hope that mining/salvage will be profitable so you don't HAVE to craft to make any real profit as i enjoy the relaxing gathering.
Just my 5 cents here. I recently returned to Star Citizen after about five years, and I have to say, for the amount invested, I expected a more stable experience. But instead, it feels like every single feature is broken-the fundamentals just aren’t there. Even basic things like inventory management don’t work consistently, and the servers crash every few minutes. It’s as if a highly complex house is being built on shifting sands, with new rooms and extensions added while the foundation sinks further. I can’t help but feel like the focus on ambitious features is overshadowing the need to strengthen the basics. It would be great to see a shift towards stabilizing the core experience. Thanks for considering this perspective.
Why wouldn’t there be rare gems that are only possible to mine with FPS, something more valuable then Hadanite but it is not reachable by ROC. Also those could be ingredients in rare and epic blueprints increasing the build quality and rarity and propertirs of the item being crafted
Been playing Eve since 2003 and some elements of that game are mechanics where other games never succeeded. The market for instance which has been built by actual economic professors also carefully monitoring inflation which is the main problem around loot which is pretty much resource sorcery being an injection for hyperinflation. They need to manually adjust things A maxed drone mining Orca with Industrial reconfiguration does for about the same mining amount as a Hulk without bonus. One maxed Orca with max skils and max modules with 3x mining speed fleet modules and one extra maxed Hulk does for about 85.000 tritanium/min. Drones in other ships are that extra 10% on top of all other skills and bonus in general depending on the mwd speed of the drones. Apart from their cycle time you can gain efficiency by improving the general speed for 15% extra resources depending on what ranges you work with. When you mine for money forget about refining but look into ore compression which sells for a higher price than with maxed refining skills
@senn4237 I was just going to write that. You could have the bare bones CDEF weapon but if you wanted anything good or armor, it was player farmed and crafted and even then it's quality was based on the quality of the resources they harvested.
I don't even get why they didn't do it with the straight down extractor like in the promo. They already have planet surfaces and would just need to create another layer to stretch over it with different mineral areas.
I think about the "valuable resource" point that he is still right about the number of different resources anyway. Both are valid: If you have a rare resource only reachable deep on FPS it will have more value, hence providing as much money for the effort. Also, with dynamic economy, it could be easy to starve one type of resource and then its value skyrocket, and change everything about the places you go and the resource you will mine. Dynamism is key to have every gameplay not repetitive.
What mining needs is crafting and a open market where the seller determines the price. So that there is something to do with the minerals other than sell the refinements. Crafting gives the buyer a reason to pay higher prices to finish the job in a timely fashion. Dynamic prices and a combination of resource rich and poor locations leads to wars which destroys ships, weapons, and equipment that need to be replaced, thus increasing the value of minerals and other construction materials. Crafting and open markets are the missing game loop that gives reason to play the game and all it's loops. It's the glue that holds the game together. I would add that mining should be expanded to digging holes in the ground and base building underground facilities. Including a limited in game version use of developer tools. Give us the tools for this sandbox MMO and let us build our own bases, cities and villages. Less work for CIG so the can focus on making the game work rather than filling the game with content. We can fill the space with content and have fun doing it. Let CIG developers build stores and pre-made buildings and stuff along with some city locations and let players assemble destructible content as they like and wreck what they are able to. That would make SC epic.
Mike: You need the crafting! That's the only way to ensure players don't just mine the most valuable resource! Video: You need a dynamic economy to ensure players don't just mine the most valuable resource Mike: No! You don't need dynamic economy if you have player driven economy! A player driven economy has lots of other downsides, specifically players locking other players out of progression because of whatever reasons. And it is much less controllable than a synthetic NPC economy. So a dynamic NPC economy is actually a better choice. Crafting/base building is a nice sync but it can't be and shouldn't be the only source of progression (or even the primary one) - otherwise you'll end up with EVE (which is a pretty niche game). An NPC economy can also generate missions like "hey, we need 10000 SCU of titanium stat" and you can only buy 5000 SCU - you need to mine (or hire a mining org/player) the rest. You'll get a lot of money but also reputation (which should be a secondary progression - a large MMO can't have just one progression). You can have dynamic events that require you to procure those "common" materials. That was the point of the original design. And the original design had crafting - a limited one. It wasn't crafting ships/player driven economy because that would mean all production chains has to be very simple so players can drive them. I think it's a huge mistake that CIG dropped that part of the design.
I see one big issue that CIG is probably looking to avoid. A marketplace where "gold farmers" can manipulate it to sell real $$$ for in game materals. There are international laws that ban that sort of interaction. If we have to sell/buy to an NPC, players can not manipulate the prices. The issue is, how do you create a dynamic economy if it's only relying on players using it, to support it? Having NPC's doing their own Roles, helps CIG be able to make adjustments to the economy when players fail to haul Aluminium because there is little profit in doing so. Players will only move goods that will maximize their profits, and without actively and heavy handedly manipulate the markets, CIG is trying to make low paying materials, worthwhile.
If you only have a player economy and we ignore the game economy then we should definitely see shelves in shops start emptying and all of a sudden the new weapon, shield or new ship we want to purchase is no longer available due to lack of resources to build them.
As for mining, I like to come back to the same location and continue mining, but the volumes are just to small. There currently is zero point in prospecting for resources, it's just flying around in a random direction and spot a rock or small cluster and mining it, then forget about the location.
We need resource management, high deman/low demand, i wanna mine alott of iron just to store it just in case it might be high demand one day. We are getting it and when we do i think it will expand mining when it is released :)
I stopped playing Empyrion: Reforged Eden after thousands of hours because I thought SC had everything that Empyrion was missing; functional multi-crew, player and game economy, etc. Now I'm remembering leveling up skill points, through hand mining, to Hover and Small Ship mining to get the resources to build a Capitol Vessel and Base building. How could RSI mess this up?
Mike, at the same time as this community being toxic AF at times, its also one of the most friendly and helpful communities I have ever seen in a online game
Crafting really is the basis for creating demand, but I think it's kind of pointless without a player market. I used to play Anarchy Online, which had a deep gear/stat system. I'd spend hours in a spreadsheet to plan my next set of gear and then set about getting/buying everything I needed. As a result town squares really felt like bustling market places, hectic local chats full of people asking for each others services (buffs, crafting, materials, etc). Because gear had character-stat requirements to equip there was always a market for low & mid tier materials - no point crafting lvl5 items from lvl 50 materials.
would also be nice if they made the rocks look different rather than all the same just with different coloured dots on them. why don't gem rocks have crystals sticking out like in the marketing videos?
you know that idea of digging into planet is total possible, right? We already have caves system, all they need is a volumetric system that decreases preferably not in totally flat manner but also not in impossible to mine ways along with deeper you dig more unstable ground may be...? That mining way, I thought was coming up when roughly 2 or 3 years ago they showcased ships in caves
I remember CR saying no traditional gameplay loops but look where we are decorticate everything, we are on that trajectory. $$$ RULES more than creativity, how can we make them puke MOAR $$$!
SC needs an economy like X4 there will be no water, no med pens, food, guns etc unless people bring resources to production facilities or move goods from production to factory to stores
This is what I was thinking! Idk if its too much, but make it impactful like a station not being able to resupply ships with fuel if no one brings quantanium there. Not enough Hull materials like RMC? People won't be able to spawn ships bigger than a specific size unless they stored it there. Insurance claim times will be increased or something. This makes it so you can still go around unhindered with your starter ships/ smaller ships, but the "just backspace" or claim insurance becomes less of a solution if you still need to help provide resources to access bigger ships if the station isn't well supplied.
I have an opinion here as a non-miner, let me explain, I don't dislike mining it just isn't the loop that I am vested in. I think the door of entry is pretty good and the complexity is there for when you want to go into mining and here is where I would like it to scale a lot to the point where people the like mining (red monster) can be pushed and rewarded. I feel that this game is at its best when you can do the basics in any profession, but dedication should be rewarded. We need the top 10% of miners. engineers, hackers, medicks, traders, pilots and soldiers and here is where MM has failed us all. To be the best in any profession should not be easy, be it complexed or just knowledge gated or even just plain skill.
I don't think that Eve style crafting makes sense, because the gear and ships are the IP of the mega-corps. Crafting should be more about being a sub-contractor of the mega-corps, where you rent land from them and do something to feed their assembly plants. The Greycat DCs are a good example of that, where they have likely rented space from Microtech for their DC, and likely provide parts to the mega-corps in addition to their own products. In uncontrolled systems like Pyro, I could see the possibility of players producing lower quality knockoffs to feed a market that likely lacks supplies of mega-corp produced products.
ah mining , all i want now is the expanse in game than we could do proper grp mining ops.. miners,expanse and a cargo ship. rly sad they dont finish the refining loop for ships also i rly want the arrastra
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Love the react video, Mike! Thank you for checking it out!
On the topic of environmental challenges, i should have gone into detail, but i think this could just be a simple thing that only happens in certain areas. And by going there, you pretty much know what you're signing up for. It's not something that randomly happens, and you're not expecting it.
But I definitely agree with you that some of the risk should be other players. Perhaps at some point CIG can make pirating gameplay actually meaningful and worthwhile as well.
I definitely agree though that all resources and materials should be useful in some way.
Player refineries should absolutely be more effective and the more desired route as well.
I honestly appreciate so much of your ideas that you have and your perspective.
16:24 In the caves we can have a substance that is ONLY found in very small amounts but would be vital for creating special components and crafting of bases and other things.. This way we would have people going into these mines!
Mining drones would be a good way of dipping into “hazardous mining” type gameplay where you might have an acid cave with toxic gas, and you could either buy a suit that’s resistant to the gas or a drone that’s able to be controlled from a safe space. That could also take into account signal range, drone fuel, speed, size, etc and I think it could be a really valuable use of drones
ha the mole would be out with its open turrets lol.
but a bigger ship that uses seats and each operator flys around in a mining drone would be nice.
like many small mining ships that unload after a certain time on the main ship
I love and hate mining . I hate that the loop is 95 % flying to and from a refinery and 5 % mining .
😩 after 3.24 it’s gonna take 3 times as long since ships have lost half there speed
@@gameinsane8984 lol and dont forget to add the load and unload time to sell it after refining it .
Mining is one of my favorite gameplay loops but I really wish finding good rocks to mine would be easier
then they wouldn’t be good rocks, would they? They’re valuable because they’re rare. That’s the whole point
@kalrex6615 Sure, but they should be much easier to scan and find, at range.
@@sailyourface I just wish I could filter out what I don’t want as I mine . Seems more efficient to just pick up anything and fly back to refinery.
@@kalrex6615 its not valuable when you can make just as much or more collecting the the first thing you see and flying back cuz you full with just a few rocks
its so hard, and also not really know if you are able to pop the rock, even though they have ratings. they aren't always accurate
One thing, if anything, that SC needs which will tie in for Cargo, Salvage and Mining, is a proper economical 'boom' system, in which set materials have dynamic values based on demand.
RMC and CMAT is always going to be in demand because of it being a basic material, however, materials that aren't harvested because they're not 'valuable' would benefit from a demand boom; for example, Orison could suddenly have a major demand for Tungsten or Copper, pitting it high up on the buying scale, giving people an incentive to go out and mine it at that time.
Since we're moving boxes by hand now, how about having mining bag be required to be unloaded off the ship and hooked up to the refinery extraction ports before going in and selecting your refining method. This would mean that you could swap bags at the mining location and have a transport ship take them in for refining.
From what they showed at the last citizen con, bases will have drilling operations, botony facilities, and production buildings for ships, weapons, armor, etc.
As an airline pilot, who flies about 99.5% of the flights event and drama free,,,, I'd be very happy if there were "gameplay loops" as you call them, which don't involve drama or hardship. We dont need as many challenges as they portray. Just let me fly around in space. Fuck!!!
elite dangerous did mining better than anyone else.
i enjoy everything about mining except how difficult it is to find rocks worth a shit. increase spawn chance of rare minerals. nothing crazy, just better than it is now.
Tbh I think not change it until you can do crafting, because I think that will give value to the resources that sell for less
@@lolsalad52 The issue is, those resouces with low profit margins, are never hauled. I agree some of this is will be addressed with crafting, where a ton of low profit materials is required to build basic things, and the high profit will be used sparingly in crafting. But, this then just changes what materials are ignored and which are sought after.
@@lolsalad52 I've been hearing about crafting for like 4 years now, its becoming a joke along with other stuff already.
@@andrewchron the entire game is a joke
I enjoyed mining, when I played. It could be cause it was also the only real LOOT system they have in the game, even though it was eventually just for $
I've always wanted the loop to be less about just heating up a rock till it pops, and more like disecting / coring a apple. You want the apple's core, you can do the fast route of just cutting around the stem, but you're not gonna get everything. Or you can take your time and cut off the sides, being careful not to hit any gas pockets. This would allow all the different types of miner's to mine the same general size large rocks. You could be on foot and come across a 60 ton boulder that's got good stuff, but it's gonna take time using a hand held or Roc DS to really get at the good stuff. But also be available if you got a bigger ship from prospector to Orion. WIth the Orion you got that big physical drill bit to make carving out large chunks of the biggest rocks easier. Then use the tug's to scan and pull asteroids back to the orion. Also, if you're mining with a Arrastra or Orion, you might not get all the good stuff, you could have a crew of hand minders EVA's around getting the smaller bits off the asteroids, like gems and what not.
@13:20 and this could be a real EXPLORATION gameplay, you cruising 'round a planet or a moon, seeking for rich mineable areas, you put a beacon, and you are able to share it or sell it! Not much to add for a lot of actual gameplay!
Mining should include an exploration loop. Like, you prospect with an exploration ship for a much MUCH MUUUCH bigger spot than what we have today. Then you can sell it to miners or mine it yourself.... for hours.... days... weeks.
And the Mole would be able to mine much bigger rocks than the Proc, but would require at least 3 people to mine it. For example, one would heat the rock with one laser, and another would stabilize it with another laser and they'd have to work together and the third would gather minerals as they're available while being careful to not gather too much (if at all) inert material.
And you have a mandatory multicrew cooperative gameplay.
And more importantly, you don't spend 80% of the time searching for a single rock or a tiny cluster that you'll never be able to find again anyway.
You talked about the "why" in SC. I feel more and mole like there is no "why" in SC. They add a simple, unrefined, self sustained loop and are like "we'll see what we do with it later". I feel like they have no global vision for what SC should be. They just seem to go with the flow. I am more and more afraid that SC will always be a screenshot simulator with a few repetitive and rapidely boring gameplay loops and occasional (so called dynamic) events.
All i want for my base is:
1. A place where i can have all my ships and vehicles on display
2. A safe "warehouse" for my physical items
Basically give me a bigger hangar. If I can craft there it's just a bonus because I think there will be a crafting ship.
All ships at display, for what? It just eats up resources and also imagine the hangar size of those who have dozens of ships or every ship... A hangar aint a museum, you can put useless stuff in ur hab when available, a hangar is just an automated garage, not a living space.
I always thought in the case of multicrew miners, it'd be more enjoyable for a crew if one/two people handled mining, one handled some sort've stabilization beam/sonic tool to help with more volatile rocks, and another sat inside processing the inert material for ejection via some sort of simple puzzle minigame that can increase/decrease overall material yield. That way the Prospector has it's role for mining singular, low-tier rocks, the Mole is there for multicrew volatile rocks, and so on.
Mole needs 1 mining and 2 supporting lasers. The 2 mining lasers can support in power, increase stability, decrease ressistance etc. And have their own minigame to apply the bonuses.
I agree. There should be a process to manage the bags. Either sorting or removing/dumping inert or any sort of ore. However you should need free space in the bags. So it can be pump from one bag to the other. Maybe only really efficient up until 3/4 used space.
8:35 actually thats not true, their is random environment conditions that can shake things up! Some places I have mined had a lot of gust of wind which made it hard to mine then it stops! and I can mine again. other places have no wind at all! so there is some things to shakes things up a bit. ( Unless he means something else OR he wants MORE ! things like hail storms or tornadoes ).
Once Again I agree with Mike here! what is needed at the moment is connectivity to other game loops so that they are connected and creates a need to go out and mine and do other associated events that make a fluidity within the game. The lack of it is what makes the present game seem empty and disjoined!
A solid continuous rock that the mole can harvest with either 2 mining heads and one extractor operator for speed, or three mining heads with drones collecting. I also see drones acting as mining gadgets that affect the resistance or stability etc. As to events the words "Gold Rush" where powerful back in the day maybe large deposits unearthed with people rushing to score a big pure load while others ignore the event and watch RUclips while basic mining.
Mining should entail scanning veins on the surface of planets that have/had water and volcanism (or similar Sci Fi concept). Mining should entail farming asteroids and rocks on and around moons or planets where collisions were involved in their formation or history. And, the composition of the system's star should impact what elements primarily make up the solar system's mining bounty. This is not perfect geology, astrogeology, or exogeology, but it would be very useful to the interlinking of Science gameplay, research and exploration and scanning, and looping that back into Mining.
Indeed, right now it's all just random pebbles of some size.
The large fields of ores would would also give orgs something to fight over and give a PVP area for people to fight over. That would help add in the piracy and competition that they've been talking about for a while.
12:37 A little after kickstarter there was the mention that we could hire NPC's that could learn! ( get better ) as time progresses. with the present way of mining this could be possible for a npc to do! Then we could use our Human friends for ship defense and perhaps even ground mining with a roc which may prove more interesting in dangerous areas more then just being in a mining ship doing next to nothing!
15 year eve vet here with experience in both the bubble and was part of goonswarm before the fall of fortress Delve.
This game is going to be smaller scale because manpower requirements for just about everything will be significantly more. In eve online you are just your ship. You don't have to manage what goes on or otherwise. The extent of your fear for loosing your ship is if you are flying something you can't afford to loose. Otherwise you can get blown up as much as you want without consequence.
Star Citizen? Death of a spaceman plays a big role. You can't just sacrifice ships or fight without fear because the people who die will get permanent debuffs or worse. Any org conflict will have devastating consequences for the playerbase.
I do hope there will be more to base building then something like Starfield... Since CIG already has modular architecture it would be nice to have a special subset of that able to be built in the same way for custom buildings and base modules. I do hope supporting structures can be built elevated from the ground. Would love to make an entire base on the side of a mountain with elevated paths and such connecting everything together.
responding to 40:38. i remember way back when runescape added the grand exchange and that update was quite literally a game changer for the reasons you touch on. i think an implementation of something along those lines -- a couple brick and mortar locations you actually go to per system -- would be fantastic. to immersify the experience and keep supply and demand from becoming a homogenous, globalized (galacticized?) uninteresting thing we can add logistics fees and the whole nine yards if youre trying to buy wares listed outside your current system, hopefully keeping at least the economies of each star you visit more-or-less unique
An inert material filter mod that could be purchased in game would be a small example of an upgradeable that could represent a bit of career growth in the game loop
I assume veins in the ground will be a thing for base building, so my hope is that eventually they'll be available for mining with a Prospector, Mole, etc as well. Tons of a material in a single place that you can just keep coming back to. Although it being focused on generally only being the cheaper ones with maybe a tiny bit of some better elements in there. Mostly geared towards collecting materials for crafting/base building vs actually making money.
The new base-building mining laser is stationary, maybe the prospector will get whatever mini-game that laser gets as well.
mining idea: same as their quantum travel idea, you have to pay attention during a "lock-on" process. Similar to "keep it in the green" - you play the minigame long enough for the ship to synchronize the laser with the rock, then you can take your hands off and let it extract the goodies from the rock without having to crack it into pieces (so it works no matter how big the rock, no splitting!) Sync the laser, then hands off and let it fill the bags or eat the whole rock, whichever comes first. Laser stops when full.
Only downside to that is I think breaking the rocks to get a better percentage of the good ores is actually nice. Personally I think the idea would work well if they kept the rocks and left them as is as a way to get rarer materials. But then added veins of ores like they originally concepted that are more base materials (potentially those that will be used a ton in crafting/base building) but not as much of those rarer materials (maybe a small percentage but very little). This just takes some time to work through and extract so, like you said, you start it up and after a minute or so you can be hands off while it continues and then when you're full you head out to the refinery.
I just wish they had made better use of the space in the mole. Being able to dump inert and be able to swap saddle bags with a hauler to keep a mole in the field longer and provide more operations feel.
The MOLE is currently just 3 mining ships in one Hull basically. What if one person could do all the lasers BUT other stations added something, like you could have a buffer operator, sort the crap out manually, something you would have to forfeit if you run it solo. Have the engineering station balance the modifier attachment attributes and peak power output of the beams, increasing effectiveness and stability as a boost over running it solo and forfeiting some effeciveness. CIG need to get their heads out of their own backsides when it comes to thinking manual labour means multicrew and nerfs equals balancing.
Would love to see an Amazon implementation in SC. Where you could ask to get your items, bought from other players, delivered at your base or at a station (to hide your location). But those shipments are done by cargo hauler players. Wanna see a hull a delivering stuff to my base
@mike, I wish there was an operator seat where a person could actively eject non valuable minerals from the input stream before it enters the saddle bag with a similarly tactile experience to mining
Do you think the quantanium we mine will be directly applied to the in game supply?
I'm hoping to see that inert materials will be used in making concrete for basebuilding in the future.
26:30 id personally go with both, if you fuck up mining you both deminish the quality of the material and reduce the amount you get out of it, however for 99% of stuff you only need the lowest quality level, be it building and whatnot, but some special items need the highest quality material to be crafted, stuff like mastercrafted weapons or ship coatings or whatnot, so more decorative, status type stuff.
Or better yet, have specific craftable goods that are mostly there to be sold, like jewlery, or if you want it simpler do like StarSector and have ''luxury goods'' be a specific type of box that just exists to be sold for a higher amount than other stuff. And those goods do need the best material, its your 24 carat gold ring with a perfect diamond on it or whatever
Idk tho as long as they do the bare minimum with an economy system im good
That's what I was expecting for mining as well, the ability to Mark a location. so that even if I'm not a miner I could still be in that Chain by selling locations. Then I never thought about finding large groups on planets but more finding large groups out in space of rocks that were rich in ore that would take multiple trips to clear out
Crafting needs to be linked to insurance. The factories that currently sell ships should have a limited stock. Depending on the ship will determine how many of those they have in stock. They could have a thousand starter ships. But something like a constellation they might only have 100 in stock. This would be dependent on player count. If you have a 100,000 players sharing the same store 100 of a common ship might not be enough. As the amount of ships in stock goes down the value of those ships go up. The NPC factories can only build so many ships per day. But they also need the ore on hand. Which means cargo haulers and minors need to bring more to the factories when they need it. When the factory is running low on ships they will put out orders to players to build them ships and drop them off. If the factory runs out of ships then you are not able to buy that ship nor is your insurance able to give you that ship back. Instead you get put into a que. At the same time not including insurance, for you to buy that ship if they are out it might cost you 40% more than the normal cost.
Back to mining as a side note I think every ship should be able to mine any size Rock. For example a prospector mining a large rock, if that rock would normally break into 7 pieces then the prospector can only break one piece off at a time
How to make mining better: More mining ships, being able to refine your own material, and being able to move ore bags around as cargo. That’s all I think they need to do to mining before 1.0
I wanna see big minig ops, where scanning ships look for good spots to mine, then the miners come in and mine and haulers move the cargo so the mining ships can stay in the belts, and have a combat ship or 2 protect the op
anyone else think that Pokémon mining was one of the best mining gameplays out there?
CIG can easily implement crafting. All they do is allow you to be an aftermarket crafter for a known company. You can craft and possibly enhance an existing product you can find in the game to a higher grade based on blueprints and items you find. Your name is now known for the things you craft for that manufacturer. Much like how AMD and NVIDIA let other companies make versions of their products.
IMO, there should be super rare materiels you can find only when you break appart some basic minerals. They would be invisible because they would be inside the rocks themselves or maybe you could get a clue there's something but odds should be set to encourage players to mine basic materials.
Same rule could also apply to hand mining. Maybe you'd get higher chances of finding diamonds or what ever the rare materials would be.
SC mining should be closer to Elite's instead of the dumb scroll wheel minigame we got
Agree on not having random events in mining, because you know the random event would be a NPC pirate cutlas spawning and attacking, because for CIG everything seems to come back to combat.
They should copy no mans sky where you can summon fighters to defend you. A rich enough mineral baron should be able to throw money at the problem. Drown the pirates in gladius fighters. If you don't want to fight you shouldn't have to if you've put in the time and grinded money. Would also make pirates think twice about attacking people
@@aguy446 How about hiring a Combat pilot to babysit you?
I would not mind protecting a miner if an enemy spawned every now and then for me to shoot at.
But atm the enemy will ignore me and just keep shooting at the Miner till he explodes or just ram and finish him of regardless of what a fighter does to protect the miner.
Nodes that are very profitable and very dangerous cause of enemy spawns would make the cooperation viable between a fighter and a miner..
@@tilemacro Sure that could be the cheaper option. Summoning escorts with money should be dumb expensive but it should be an option. Maybe none of your friends are online and you can't trust anybody to escort you. After all, a member of a pirate org will probably be the first to offer an "escort" then stab you in the back
@@tilemacro That would make sense in some lawless areas with a lot of pricey stuff where some org would go with bunch of miners and fighters to mine (or hire some miners/fighters with reasonable reputation)
-high profit, high risk, large budget, planning required
in other places there could be areas that you need to find and mine in with not much risk of being attacked (maybe some system where people that do theft are hunted and fought off at jumpgates so they can't easily enter) but whole system is taxed and you have to pay customs when taking stuff out
-variable profit, almost no risk, small budget, market observation required for larger profit (system focused on risky smuggling gameplay for high income)
or 3rd option large inifinite nodes owned by corporations heavily guarded by turrets/npcs/hired players, with large rafineries/warehouses really close
-solely mining gameplay, stable medium-low reputation based profit, small risk (only large organized org attacks), small budget or no budget with low profit
@@tilemacrohow about taking a page out of Elite Dangerous’ book and make specific hotspots that have higher yields of specific materials but have AI Pirates and/or Security randomly drop in and scan the player for either valuables if pirate or crime stat if Security. Best part is players can do bounty hunting in those hotspots since pirates spawned there. I used to go there for the combat not mining
Sometimes an AI mining ship would be there and would call for help if an AI pirate scanned him
I bet when crafting and base building is in the game, we will need tons and tons of probably each materials. As such, what currently is worthless might have some real value later on and it is then us players who decide whether to make mony out of it or use it for our homes. There will be probably new materials added to the game as well as currently we do not have wood, planks and what not, which might be used for furniture and the like.
Funny thing is that mining was my first branch off after courier. Mining was too exciting so went back to stringing courier contracts together lol! Know it's there tho.
The biggest issue with mining is that it's not designed well for group gameplay. The ability to replace full bags with empty ones is a great step, but the deposits are basic af and give no real incentive to work as a group of miners working together hand mining, ROC mining, and Mole mining. Would make the difference between selling information about a rock and selling information about a mining site.
I have not tried to mine yet Since the New Patch we got the Hangars, but U don't Just land and Sell to the Station anymore ? Or u just land and offload the Boxes to your Hangar, then Sell them ?
Agree whole heartedly about crafting and player economy. Eve, for all its' faults, nails this. Blueprints and player crafting, alongside mining, make a real player-driven economy.
Mining is the loop with the biggest time sink in the game and only loop that forces multiplayer
Combat= fly to mission marker, kill
Salvage= fly to or have salvage brought to you
Medical= fly to target/ revive
Cargo= fly to box put box in ship, deliver
Commodities= same as above
Refuel=Fly to stranded ship give fuel (go slow or blow up both ships?)
Repair/rearm= Same as above
Scanning= Who know
Agree, you have to create a value to mining different types of mats and crafting is the most obvious method to provide this.
I don't want the primary risk to be the players. When you go to a certain area the first consideration should be, who are the locals? And then what do I need for possible player approach?
Same with the introduced endgame. What I'm missing is why we build the star bases? Just for PVP fleet battles? I want there to be shifting lines of NPC terrorist and alien territories in human space. You need those fleets to push them back in first place and if you overdo the PVP, then you got no line of defence against the aliens, in order to maybe get to valueable recources or technology.
To be able to find a giant ore deposit on a giant asteroid or on a planet and actually be able to set up a small mobile base and spend a lot of time mining the whole deposit would be awesome. I’m talking like 10-100 million or more worth of ore to be mined. Even 500 million worth if using an orion. They should be large enough for an entire org to tackle and even have to bed log off and come back to continue mining the next day.
Salvage should be about going into ships and removing all the valuables and subsystems before hull scraping. Subsystems that are still functioning should be fixable and more valuable than hull scraping and that more valuable than the hull buy a lot.
We need alloy/composite manufacturing in player hands, in order to support crafting stuff.
Nothing of quality is made out of just aluminum/iron as is.
right with ye on having a verticle mining mode. would be very cool... even if it was especially random
The process of heavy mining could cause turbulence on the ship, requiring a good pilot to keep her steady and stay on target. Good co-op
Better quality and handling = more gained is the way to go as said.
That also corresponds with todays refineries: cheaper = less skilled = less gained.
I also hope that mining/salvage will be profitable so you don't HAVE to craft to make any real profit as i enjoy the relaxing gathering.
There needs to be such thing as a "good mining spot" to encourage exploration, & location sales.
Just my 5 cents here. I recently returned to Star Citizen after about five years, and I have to say, for the amount invested, I expected a more stable experience. But instead, it feels like every single feature is broken-the fundamentals just aren’t there. Even basic things like inventory management don’t work consistently, and the servers crash every few minutes.
It’s as if a highly complex house is being built on shifting sands, with new rooms and extensions added while the foundation sinks further. I can’t help but feel like the focus on ambitious features is overshadowing the need to strengthen the basics. It would be great to see a shift towards stabilizing the core experience. Thanks for considering this perspective.
Why wouldn’t there be rare gems that are only possible to mine with FPS, something more valuable then Hadanite but it is not reachable by ROC. Also those could be ingredients in rare and epic blueprints increasing the build quality and rarity and propertirs of the item being crafted
Been playing Eve since 2003 and some elements of that game are mechanics where other games never succeeded. The market for instance which has been built by actual economic professors also carefully monitoring inflation which is the main problem around loot which is pretty much resource sorcery being an injection for hyperinflation. They need to manually adjust things
A maxed drone mining Orca with Industrial reconfiguration does for about the same mining amount as a Hulk without bonus. One maxed Orca with max skils and max modules with 3x mining speed fleet modules and one extra maxed Hulk does for about 85.000 tritanium/min. Drones in other ships are that extra 10% on top of all other skills and bonus in general depending on the mwd speed of the drones. Apart from their cycle time you can gain efficiency by improving the general speed for 15% extra resources depending on what ranges you work with. When you mine for money forget about refining but look into ore compression which sells for a higher price than with maxed refining skills
The MOLE is defined as having a min crew of 1, so technically, it is meant to be solo'd.
Another one. Crafting things for other players that they cant buy or obtain from non player market.
This was a big part of Star Wars Galaxies and it was awesome.
@senn4237 I was just going to write that. You could have the bare bones CDEF weapon but if you wanted anything good or armor, it was player farmed and crafted and even then it's quality was based on the quality of the resources they harvested.
Hey, is the bug of the mole fixed?
emptying bag off non valuables WAS at some point part of SOON tm
I don't even get why they didn't do it with the straight down extractor like in the promo. They already have planet surfaces and would just need to create another layer to stretch over it with different mineral areas.
I think about the "valuable resource" point that he is still right about the number of different resources anyway. Both are valid:
If you have a rare resource only reachable deep on FPS it will have more value, hence providing as much money for the effort. Also, with dynamic economy, it could be easy to starve one type of resource and then its value skyrocket, and change everything about the places you go and the resource you will mine. Dynamism is key to have every gameplay not repetitive.
Your base should also include resource extraction which i thought they mentioned at citizencon
What mining needs is crafting and a open market where the seller determines the price. So that there is something to do with the minerals other than sell the refinements. Crafting gives the buyer a reason to pay higher prices to finish the job in a timely fashion. Dynamic prices and a combination of resource rich and poor locations leads to wars which destroys ships, weapons, and equipment that need to be replaced, thus increasing the value of minerals and other construction materials. Crafting and open markets are the missing game loop that gives reason to play the game and all it's loops. It's the glue that holds the game together. I would add that mining should be expanded to digging holes in the ground and base building underground facilities. Including a limited in game version use of developer tools. Give us the tools for this sandbox MMO and let us build our own bases, cities and villages. Less work for CIG so the can focus on making the game work rather than filling the game with content. We can fill the space with content and have fun doing it. Let CIG developers build stores and pre-made buildings and stuff along with some city locations and let players assemble destructible content as they like and wreck what they are able to. That would make SC epic.
Mike: You need the crafting! That's the only way to ensure players don't just mine the most valuable resource!
Video: You need a dynamic economy to ensure players don't just mine the most valuable resource
Mike: No! You don't need dynamic economy if you have player driven economy!
A player driven economy has lots of other downsides, specifically players locking other players out of progression because of whatever reasons. And it is much less controllable than a synthetic NPC economy. So a dynamic NPC economy is actually a better choice. Crafting/base building is a nice sync but it can't be and shouldn't be the only source of progression (or even the primary one) - otherwise you'll end up with EVE (which is a pretty niche game).
An NPC economy can also generate missions like "hey, we need 10000 SCU of titanium stat" and you can only buy 5000 SCU - you need to mine (or hire a mining org/player) the rest. You'll get a lot of money but also reputation (which should be a secondary progression - a large MMO can't have just one progression). You can have dynamic events that require you to procure those "common" materials.
That was the point of the original design. And the original design had crafting - a limited one. It wasn't crafting ships/player driven economy because that would mean all production chains has to be very simple so players can drive them. I think it's a huge mistake that CIG dropped that part of the design.
I see one big issue that CIG is probably looking to avoid. A marketplace where "gold farmers" can manipulate it to sell real $$$ for in game materals. There are international laws that ban that sort of interaction. If we have to sell/buy to an NPC, players can not manipulate the prices. The issue is, how do you create a dynamic economy if it's only relying on players using it, to support it? Having NPC's doing their own Roles, helps CIG be able to make adjustments to the economy when players fail to haul Aluminium because there is little profit in doing so. Players will only move goods that will maximize their profits, and without actively and heavy handedly manipulate the markets, CIG is trying to make low paying materials, worthwhile.
44:30 I fully agree that RMC should be refinable!
What if Intert Material was used for firefighting equipment?
If you only have a player economy and we ignore the game economy then we should definitely see shelves in shops start emptying and all of a sudden the new weapon, shield or new ship we want to purchase is no longer available due to lack of resources to build them.
I just wanna go out farming salvage / mining materials during the week, so that I can provide repairs to our org on major team events at weekend.
We need manufacturing to be developed to make mining worthwhile.
As for mining, I like to come back to the same location and continue mining, but the volumes are just to small.
There currently is zero point in prospecting for resources, it's just flying around in a random direction and spot a rock or small cluster and mining it, then forget about the location.
We need resource management, high deman/low demand, i wanna mine alott of iron just to store it just in case it might be high demand one day. We are getting it and when we do i think it will expand mining when it is released :)
I stopped playing Empyrion: Reforged Eden after thousands of hours because I thought SC had everything that Empyrion was missing; functional multi-crew, player and game economy, etc. Now I'm remembering leveling up skill points, through hand mining, to Hover and Small Ship mining to get the resources to build a Capitol Vessel and Base building. How could RSI mess this up?
Mike, at the same time as this community being toxic AF at times, its also one of the most friendly and helpful communities I have ever seen in a online game
Crafting really is the basis for creating demand, but I think it's kind of pointless without a player market.
I used to play Anarchy Online, which had a deep gear/stat system. I'd spend hours in a spreadsheet to plan my next set of gear and then set about getting/buying everything I needed.
As a result town squares really felt like bustling market places, hectic local chats full of people asking for each others services (buffs, crafting, materials, etc).
Because gear had character-stat requirements to equip there was always a market for low & mid tier materials - no point crafting lvl5 items from lvl 50 materials.
would also be nice if they made the rocks look different rather than all the same just with different coloured dots on them. why don't gem rocks have crystals sticking out like in the marketing videos?
you know that idea of digging into planet is total possible, right? We already have caves system, all they need is a volumetric system that decreases preferably not in totally flat manner but also not in impossible to mine ways along with deeper you dig more unstable ground may be...?
That mining way, I thought was coming up when roughly 2 or 3 years ago they showcased ships in caves
I remember CR saying no traditional gameplay loops but look where we are decorticate everything, we are on that trajectory. $$$ RULES more than creativity, how can we make them puke MOAR $$$!
Resume @39:00
yes market place , work orders should be players creating order tickets and players can accept it
Inert material used to build roads
I like Hav0k's videos.
SC needs an economy like X4 there will be no water, no med pens, food, guns etc unless people bring resources to production facilities or move goods from production to factory to stores
This is what I was thinking!
Idk if its too much, but make it impactful like a station not being able to resupply ships with fuel if no one brings quantanium there.
Not enough Hull materials like RMC? People won't be able to spawn ships bigger than a specific size unless they stored it there. Insurance claim times will be increased or something.
This makes it so you can still go around unhindered with your starter ships/ smaller ships, but the "just backspace" or claim insurance becomes less of a solution if you still need to help provide resources to access bigger ships if the station isn't well supplied.
I have an opinion here as a non-miner, let me explain, I don't dislike mining it just isn't the loop that I am vested in. I think the door of entry is pretty good and the complexity is there for when you want to go into mining and here is where I would like it to scale a lot to the point where people the like mining (red monster) can be pushed and rewarded.
I feel that this game is at its best when you can do the basics in any profession, but dedication should be rewarded. We need the top 10% of miners. engineers, hackers, medicks, traders, pilots and soldiers and here is where MM has failed us all. To be the best in any profession should not be easy, be it complexed or just knowledge gated or even just plain skill.
I have a mole and ready for bigger mining.... ALL while I am a total solo!
I'll be positive with this one. IMHO mining has a lot to evolve but it's solid enough so it doesn't need to be redone unlike many other areas.
I don't think that Eve style crafting makes sense, because the gear and ships are the IP of the mega-corps. Crafting should be more about being a sub-contractor of the mega-corps, where you rent land from them and do something to feed their assembly plants. The Greycat DCs are a good example of that, where they have likely rented space from Microtech for their DC, and likely provide parts to the mega-corps in addition to their own products. In uncontrolled systems like Pyro, I could see the possibility of players producing lower quality knockoffs to feed a market that likely lacks supplies of mega-corp produced products.
ah mining , all i want now is the expanse in game than we could do proper grp mining ops.. miners,expanse and a cargo ship.
rly sad they dont finish the refining loop for ships
also i rly want the arrastra
I thought ships weren't supposed to be able to hover indefinitely?
Can Cig please hire this guy as head of gameplay
Make it more like gold rush on the discovery Channel?
That would go well with Base building
This mining loop is broken right now it’s sad
They need base defense and refineries for all mats