Funny, because I very often zone out in my head thinking about something and then come back to reality realizing this whole time my brain wasn't tracking what my eyes were seeing, visually I was in a world of my thoughts (it personaly feels very cool, I get dissapointed once I realise I got back from my head).
One thing I've realized about myself over the years, and maybe other people with masculine sensory can relate, is that a lot of my understanding of how things work is weirdly physical, like analogous to things about physical shape, structure, direction, motion, interactions, etc. even for very abstract concepts. Things are strong from one angle, fragile from another, they generate impact, bounce off, might be rigid or flexible, etc. Learning stuff that can be very abstract often feels like it engages the same processes that I instinctively use when physically feeling out an object and figuring out its shape, weight, and so on.
That's so cool! I'm NT with m Sensory and I get that often I can't remember a name for something I will remember the smell, shape or colour associated instead! Which doesn't help at all when people are asking me what something is called... But it is fun
@@mysticapixi I have trouble with names sometimes too, though I don't know how I stack up against the general population. One case I remember is from back when I was studying math in high school and college. I'd remember what some theorem actually *did* almost perfectly, but hell if I can remember the random dude's name attached to it. The ones with descriptive names were much easier
@@SantiagoRodriguez-fe6ng I have the same question... I have the same, and thought it was M intuition, but it seems more sensory based on OPS videos.... lol.... I'm doing it again... the S says it's S so it must be S
@SantiagoRodriguez-fe6ng because it's a sensory data ie a theorem described by someone, the hypothesis is not something made by the reader which they are later describing through their extroverted deciding functions, hence the outer world infos (Se) instead of personal stories of individual sensory experience (Si) Ni on the other hand would be for example how that individual sees the basic underlying theme of the theorem is a recognizable pattern (N) in other everyday objects eg how a car moves or how bicycle moves. TWO Se having common theme of transport [ Ni] as Ni works on a axis with Se
Why masculine Sensory people feel more present in the moment: Because feminine Sensory relies on masculine N to remember stuff. The only way to access N is to disconnect from the S. So we fS people go momentarily deaf and blind while we dive into our N (e.g. visuals) to grab something to talk about. I should talk more about this, it's very fascinating stuff!
Interesting. I'm pretty sure I have masculine Si, but even though it's a demon, I'm always having to remind my sensor friend to be present in the moment, to enjoy the moment and stop ruminating on the past or fixating on fears that will likely never come to fruition. I'm pretty sure he's an STJ despite him insisting he's an INTJ, and if his Si is feminine, that would seem to fit. It's just crazy to think that an intuitive and an enneagram type 5, I'm somehow _less_ in my head and more present in the moment than he is! This is actually a large part of what had me doubting whether he used Si consciously for a long time... it seems so fleeting, hazy, contradictory for him. I'd think "How can your Si be so much higher than mine, yet you can't even give a straight answer to whether you're hungry or not, can't tell when you're getting tired, and have such a shitty memory?" My Si is pretty solid and unshakeable. I can always tell when I'm hungry, full, or anywhere in between, when I'm tired, when I'm sick, and my sensory memories are pretty solid and consistent. He seems strangely fixated on Si details, yet contradicts himself all the time. The feminine vs masculine element could potentially explain that though. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. When it comes to contradictory memories, I had previously considered that Fi could be influencing Si, causing him to tell a different version of the same story depending on his current mood and what he valued at the time of recall. In contemporary psychological terms, this could be seen as "consistency bias," perhaps also "mood congruent memory bias" and "fading affect bias." However, now that I think about it, masculine Ne could also be a culprit.
Yes makes so much sense! My friend does this sometimes during conversation! I'll wonder how they could possibly not hear what is being said. Then suddenly they'll come back to reality just as I'm pointing out that they're in another world 😜 convenient
I totally process aurally. I used to work in a busy copy shop, and I'd keep four machines running while doing something else, just by listening. Watching a copy machine does little for you, but they all make different sounds, and those sounds make different changes with jams, paper running out, or when a run ends. I was capable of listening to everything at once, or I could focus on individual machines at will. So I'd be walking towards a machine as it wound down, and get there just as it stopped. All while being aware of the musak (drove me crazy. they kept repeating the same CD) or the surrounding conversation. It got me in trouble with customer service because I could hear the machines crashing one by one while no one else was picking up the cues. Right now I'm helping to care for my folks, and I can track them from another room by listening. The rhythm of their footprints is different, and I can tell a lot about where they are, what they're doing, and where they're headed to. But if I look at something then turn away, I can hardly tell you anything about it. And the idea of having some kind of somatic sense of where everything is sounds ("sounds", Hah!) claustrophobic to me.
I can really relate to Shannon on this one. Having to take in the audio, create a picture by tying together past information pictures, then create a new picture with the new information. In school I felt like sitting in class was such a waste of time for me. The teachers lectures moved too quickly for me to really grasp the information if there were a lot of details to piece together. I ended up gaining the most by reading the book while the teacher lectured or working on whatever assignment was due. It's hard for me to learn from lectures, I gain so much more from reading.
When I'm watching a lecture, I always need to take notes, because if I don't see it, I won't remember it, I won't even be able to pay attention. But people with masculine sensory seem to experience the opposite: when they try to take notes, they can't pay attention to the lecture.
@@josehenriquefs888omg fuck yes. I’d zone out in class, then go home with the book and write down what I thought was important in form of notes. I’ve always been a self learner but this makes sense.
The way Dave was talking reminds me a bit of aphantasia. The way I understand it is that most people have a camera in their head that lets them see images. I personally have little to none but dave sounds like he has a functional if maybe primitive camera.
I try to visualize and record everything people are talking to me about (except names), but I have to look away to see clearly at moments. Some people thinks it’s rude that I’m not looking them in the eye at that moment, but I’m picturing and pulling related things into that visual space and that’s where I generate insight and gain those ah-ha moments and have something to say that might be useful. The rudest thing people do is when I look away, they step in front of me - it disrupts my image and makes me so angry that’ll I’ll just check-out of the conversation because that’s exactly what they don’t want me to do, unless I am curious and they have info that I want, then I’ll tolerate it! 😡🧠😂 Those eye-contact-demanding people are like Conversation-Karens!
Omg so relatable. I also hate it when people are gesticulating some primitive hand movements to demonstrate what they're talking about in pantomime, and will actually pause and wait for you to look at their hands if you're not watching. What I imagine in my head is far superior to the visual of any gesticulation, and the hand movements are just distracting! But they will insist "You're not listening!" (How would you know if I'm listening?) I need to be able to concentrate on the meaning of your words (which often means looking away) to form an accurate mental image; I don't need a shadow puppet show or interpretive dance in my face, thank you very much!
Yes! So much so this! As I look away to reflect and contemple what they are talking about. Then they get louder or say my name or something rude about me not listening. It's so frustrating. I will at that point usually just stare blankly at them and turn off listening and just say, "uh huh" "you don't say" "well how about that" because I get the idea they want to talk At me instead of To me so I just let them have the floor. I timed it once and a friend then talked for 28 minutes about the history of his recent purchase and how it was invented and yada yada. I don't really remember much of what he was was saying because frankly I wasn't interested but I guess he just needed to hear himself talk? 🤷
There’s this comedian who does a character that is scarily accurate to someone with Masculine Sensory audio modality. His names Neemanaz and it’s the character Shane. You guys should check it out it’s crazy
I think, that "internal monologue" is Ne-Si. Because they think in words and Ni-Se thinks in movement and interactions (or something like that). What Shannon described looks like: capturing sound into Se unprocessed memory, understanding it by applying Ni, coming up with and answer, and translating Ni answer back to words. Ne-Si thinks in words and sentences, so they don't have this whole process. They just need identify objects (words) by applying Si, and then pick whole Ne idea stored as an answer. Ne-Si home environment is speech, and they see world through filter of language/symbols (Si). Se-Ni home environment is actual environment, and they have to translate their understanding of it to words. Ne-Si have internal monologue, because all their thoughts are in language, even their actions, While Ni-Se just affect their environment with their body. No need for words.
Yeah this. Am Ne-Si user and even early teens I would have newspaper print aesthetics as my desktop/or fav Tshirt. And quotes framed and hung up the wall of my room. Language is my jam. Most of my arguments with people boil down to me taking someone else's word choices more seriously than they themselves do... "oh, so you used the word X -- but you really meant to say Y, in the end- we actually agree..."
Kinda late reply but - I think you're onto something here. I am self-typed as MM Ti-Ni SB/P(C) "ISTP jumper" and very much think in motion, direction, form, shape, etc., other physical properties and things like that. I can appreciate and work with words pretty well but the way I generally think about things is...wordless, and it isn't visual either. A lot of the time it's sort of analogous to trying to figure out what direction something is in, like following a compass, or trying to piece things together to see if they fit in kind of a physical sense. That's meant that I'm naturally quite proficient with a lot of systems that operate using wordless logic, whether those be physical or abstract (mathematical or the like) and somewhat less good at working with language, since I generally don't pay as close attention to it, it's a step removed from how I immediately interact with the world. Several other people that I know on either side of the Ne/Si - Ni/Se divide also fit this pattern pretty well. So, it's anecdotal, but definitely could be something. It makes sense that the Se would be paying more direct attention to sensory input from the world, visual or otherwise, while the Ne is sort of picking and choosing from that according to the known sensory Si, but can more easily make a new pattern with those knowns. Both have their advantages depending on the context
This reminds of Causal Cognition’s videos, specifically the “Ne and No Wriying Styles” videos as well as the “Symbols and Archetypes” video. They basically mention the same thing about Ni/Se and Ne/Si.
Correct if I wrong but I think there is a general misconception that feminine sensory people are visual learners. In reality, it's actually the masculine sensory people need charts and presentations. The feminine sensory (maybe when it's a inferior function or the child/relief function like Shan's) have no problem recalling and visualize things in their head because their ni/ne is masculine and actually acute to learning things through auditory senses.
I love this aspect. Fascinating, at 2:57 I see masc S eyes versus fem S eyes and then when theres an imaginary picture on Dave's head, both pairs of eyes shift for a moment at 3:46
I like podcasts sure, an intriguing topic is an intriguing topic and if it stimulates the mind, all the better. I wouldn't say I have masculine sensory however, considering how often I dismiss the value of details, chalking them up as unimportant. Audiobooks on the otherhand.. I'm more likely to pass over than listen to them. I'm the kind of person who actually tries to listen to something I want to get into, so if I do something else in the middle of it, I zone out to focus on that thing and ignore to an extent. I suppose its how my mind handles stories as opposed to conversation.
I think I'm an IxxP but I enjoy podcasts if it's for the purpose of multitasking. Like if I'm working on a project that doesn't require much thinking, I'd rather hear a podcast than my own train of thought 😂 However...I won't do this with audio books. If I'm reading, I want to hear the emphasis of words from my own internal voice in my head, not some weirdo trying too hard to be a voice actor
@@Xcopyz uhh I'm still figuring it out? Lol 😁 I've done a bunch of online tests and got INTP a bunch of times, and INTJ a few times also, but I have no idea how accurate those are. I know how the functions work too though, and I tried typing myself that way...but I couldn't quite figure it out
@@Law-of-EnTropy Can you expand on your intuition? My intuition tells me that strength of visualization, for example, could cluster around an individuals propensity for utilizing that mechanism.
There's a cognitive trade-off between visio-spatial abstraction (math) and object visualization (art) apparently. So my guess is that Ses are better visualizers in general than the Nes. And that the Nes would have more people with aphantasia. It's an interesting question.
@@Taylorlit Actually there's some research showing a trade-off between object visusluzation and spatial reasoning on the tales of these distributions. So an aphantasic is more likely to find himself pursuing STEM than art. At the extremes of visualization abilities, my guess you'd have more aphantasic Nes (math) and more extreme object visualizers Ses (art)
Ok , i'll make another information about mnemonics ( basically memory hacks , things like the mind palace and other similar things ) They all basically work on associating a concept with a sensory que : the memory palace is used with a place you know and a walk you take and then you associates this place with abstact concept , They are basically ways to make the sensory and the intuition togheter , A intuitive person will have troble when it comes to remembering the place , A sensory will have problems remembering the pattern , Both have to work with demons ...
Ok , so the subject is memory , And the way in which different functions are storing it : Which is the masculine observer , Masculine iNtuition has faster access but less precise , as if someone is in the dark with just touch and audio , Masculine Sensory has slower access but has a more precise details , i am thinking tiger woods remembering what was he looking at minute x in match x , Am i correct ? If yes then it should be : M-S memory: +precision -speed M-Ni memory: +speed -precision And i would say basing myself over the video in which they talked about memory the more the masculine observer is MASCULINE the more the thing is extreme : Super Masculine N will recall things very very quickly While Super Masculine D will remember an absurd amount of details about single events citations : ruclips.net/video/U0RrEebstx4/видео.html ruclips.net/video/BSKUfR9tybQ/видео.html
If anything I think masculine sensory would have faster recall...it's just very limited recall a lot of the time, to just a random specific detail. Or maybe speed has something to do with which function it is? Like maybe the masculine Oes are faster because it's just random data, not connected to a personal experience. I'm not sure about that. I personally am D-M-Se and pretty quick with detail recall but pretty terrible with visual memory, and not great with memory of things that actually happened to me personally either, at least compared to my D-M-Si roommate. On a literal level, I think masculine sensory is actually much more comfortable in the dark with just touch/audio, since they're paying more attention to those stimuli in general and less to the visuals.
As a visual-spatial dominant “thinker” not a visual “learner” my Ni will not allow someone else’s image into my memory. I convert words to images as I hear them and can’t discern between what I hear or see. All similar concepts are stacked on top of each other. So when learning new coding languages I use “c” as the framework for all other computer languages I learn. Each language has a color I assigned if the “image “ someone puts up on a board or whatever is in conflict I block their image out. I don’t need to really see the back of an object to know what it looks like. I pick it up with my brain and can rotate it 365. In school I would draw my image and ask my professor to tell me the difference between mine and the books. Until recently I thought everyone could do this. Until recently I didn’t think I was stubborn either now I see the signs were and still are there. I also know which teachers and professors indulged my refusal to take in new information without an explanation of why? I’m still irritated that the EDU system takes 9 -12 years to explain why you have to learn triangles in kindergarten. Even at 5 yo there was a gatekeeper to my mind holding a sword saying “WHY”.
Thank you for the video. I actually thought that their might be correlation with masculine sensory and spatial awareness. Also I wonder if there are any differences between se and si since I always thought the biggest difference is that se acutally deals with Sensation while si already filtered out in a way (and is therefore less detailed), plus if there are differences with detailed sensory depending on where sensing is in the function stack.
This is an interesting one. I am not sure I look above or at the back of my eyeballs-it seems I look for the visual another layer inside my head which is staring off into the deep. I also looked to see what visually drawing something is like. I see the thing but also see the image in my head (and abstractly without). This is another way of looking at what I am looking at. Would love more videos clarifying modality.
This was a great description of the difference between audio and visual types. As I understand, this tracks with the gender of your sensory function, but you also track whether someone is an audio/kinesthetic or a kinesthetic/audio (and you associate visual types with /tester or tester/). Could you explain that, at some point?
So if i store my Ne in conceptual buildings and landscapes, but my Si is pretty much all phonology, syntax, fonts, and vocabulary, which one is masculine n which one is feminine? Audio: When Dave said Metallica, i immediately thought of the logo, mentally scrolled thru each album, in order of release date, focusing on how the logo appears on each album, and the lyric inserts. In the background, my mind played the last Metallica song i heard recently, which happened to be For Whom the Bell Tolls. Does the music library setup disqualify me as an audio learner?
@@pebblebrookbooks4852 I think it even confirms you're an audio type... masculine sensory organizes facts on timelines. Masculine intuition organizes concepts on mazes of conceptual links... I don't think all audio types have aphantasia. So it's normal to have some visualization. but it's more on the way you organize and systematize the knowledge.
@@pebblebrookbooks4852 well... not really 😅 I just follow their work from a while back trying to understand it. It may still be misleading though. so take it with a grain of salt. Thanks for the compliment anyways!
Just about me. But also I seem to have both visual, auditory, and kinesthetic perception at the same time. I can hear the sound and "see" its image. And I "feel" his physical shape. Sometimes I can even feel its taste, unlike the taste of any food, just some abstract taste. In general, I do electronic music. When I write it, I see sounds in associations of some physical structures, but always abstract, which cannot be depicted in any way, like a 4d picture. I can imagine what kind of sound I need from the kinesthetic-visual image in my head. If I have forgotten how something sounds, I can remember in the same way. And I build the entire track and the location of the instruments in 3D space. But it wasn't always like that, only when I started writing music in 2011, over time this ability became more pronounced. Therefore, I doubt that this is synesthesia, rather a well-developed associative perception. Is this a masculine sensory?
1:40 Shannon says that Jordan Peterson says he isn't a visual learner, but implies that she & Dave think he is because he often looks up while lecturing/teaching others. But they've typed Dr. Peterson as FF-Ne/Ti-CP/B(S). That would mean that his Si is feminine, his Ne is masculine, his Ti is masculine & his Fe is feminine. So when he "consumes" info for himself/learns/takes in new ideas, he is using masculine Ne + masculine Ti. Double masculine consume is Kinesthetic/Audio. Right? That would mean he learns best by role-playing, getting involved hands-on, & hearing. So he really isn't a visual learner, just as he says. Rather, he is visual when he is blasting. When he " blasts" out his known info to others, he is using feminine Si + feminine Fe. Double feminine blast is Tester/Visual. He uses slideshows & other visual aids while teaching & seems to be looking up & "seeing" what he has previously read in order to recall it & tell it to others.
I don't know about this one, I feel like I do both very much. I'm a director and in preparation for a movie I will storyboard as much as possible, so that I can just execute on set. But when I have to depart from my plan and make a decision on the fly, my eyes move super fast and I visualize what each alternative would mean for the finished product. Then I make my decision based on what I see. - INTJ (maybe FM Ni/Fi sbpc but I'm not 100% sure on that) Once I find the time, I will definitely join your program to be properly typed.
0:30, I think this is more of Aphantasia than it is related to personality. Aphantasia is when you think of words first before associating with a mental image. This is why the most common thing you'll hear people say of this is, "my head is blank and dark." Of course, this also results in poor spatial awareness. You hear chair, you think of a chair, you imagine a random chair you have seen before. You hear of a green chair in the middle of an empty room eclosed by iron walls. You think of that, and that's all you imagine. Now, if you think you have a case of Aphantasia, can you try and interact with that? Most likely, not. That's because you are heavily limited to the words you associate with the mental image. Change green to red, then the chair changes to red. Did I mention lighting? Shadows? No, but you probably assumed a lightbulb was there, otherwise, the room would be dark and you won't make out any of the details I mentioned. Why? Because our brain is familiar with that and so it compensates for it. Here's a great video about Aphantasia: ruclips.net/video/ewsGmhAjjjI/видео.html
As aphantasics need to compensate with other neurological cognituve functions, it can absolutely be related to personality to some degree. Some research shows a spatial reasoning indirect relationship to object visualization. My hunch is that XNTPs have a much higher rate if anphantasia than any of the other groups. On the other hand,, high visualizers have trouble with the generalization needed learn some abstractions involved in math.
i’m an aphantasic INFP who paints abstracts by externalising the process instead of visualising the result (if that sounds weird, it is 😆). i have poor spatial awareness/reasoning and am bad at maths. so i guess i just drew several short straws instead of one...
@@CherylBeachlerRizzo I still think if there's correlation, it's less prevalent to be the case. There is a pattern people with Intuition saviors tends to have Aphantasia, but it's not exclusive to that cognitove function. I have a friend who has the middle Intuition-second before Sensory, and their very good at both picking up patterns and visualizing the sensory in their head. I, having the same middle-functions, can't do that.
Well, if visualization is masculine N then I guess my I have masc N on top and didn't even realize it was masculine... As a kid I used to go to church and sit alone, hearing the bible narratives and just staring at the blank, visualizing everything that was being narrated... I still do this most of the time, but back then the images felt way more tangible and concrete... Nowadays it feels more abstract and "sign-language-like"... This was so insightful, I feel like you guys are geniuses of this century...! And btw, Nikola Tesla must've been some kind of Masc N Ti guy too... Any thoughts on him? I'd love to hear! And now I guess I'm not an FM Ni/Ti SC/P(B)... But I'm sure I'm some kind of M? N(e/i)/Ti S?/?(B)... Gotta dive deeper to find out... Or maybe zoomout of my head and get back to seeing (and *objectively* tracking) myself in sensory reality :P
Ha yes, this is why I have trouble following your earlier videos with the diagrams. You're talking so fast with your descriptions and I need to visualize to truly let it sink in. I'd have to replay video a few times and sometimes pause.
What then when it seems you do both?😅 While my memories seem to be stored as video or png. files they're loosely arranged on a timeline, rather than branching or in a memory palace. That said, my imagination is a pretty trippy place. And if I hear a foreign word I usually need something visual to connect the sounds to so I can understand the sounds themselves🤔
Thats hilarious.. my audio/kin esfp kiddo just last night, i was talking "at" her and she asks me what i was looking at.. and how i did that w my eyes. I was not-looking at a point just to the back left of her head.. Almost through her. I never really noticed i did that til she pointed it out.
Guys, PLEASE, check out Nikola Tesla's autobiographies and his descriptions of his "visions"... It's exactly this, masc N!!! Looking at the back of the eyeballs - tapetum lucidum - visions So fascinating!!!! E.E
Masculine Sensory or Masculine Intuition? Well, I can say I can be a visual learner, but more often than not, the visual isn't really needed. I can get what someone is saying without the visual. My hold on my memory is like a large bucket with a small hole in it holding oil. I retain things for a limited number of time, but I will forget it eventually.
Jordan Peterson says he's not good at visualization. I doubt ENTPs are in general, but they do make those "searching" eye movements. Instead of searching for food or danger, a human may search for words or abstractions.
Metallica had a pyrotechnic problem that burnt one of the guys in Montreal. Gun&Rose didn't play afterwards which cause a riot. Imagine the price of tickets for that show...
Sooooo... How does this relate to the cognitive function interactions? They never got around to explaining that. And what are the different modalities? Audio, visual and tactile?
Yeah. Pretty confusing at first. Modalities are Audio (MF), Kinesthetic (MM), Visual (FM), and Tester (FF). First letter of order is in reference to your sensory (Si or Se) Second letter is in reference to your extroverted decider (Fe or Te). In this video they are comparing people who are visual (feminine sensory) to people who have masculine sensory (Audio/Kinesthetic).
I know it as the "Function Attention Powers" Fi-Power of the ear (listening) Fe-Power of the throat (preaching) Se-Power of the eyes (watching) Si-Power of endurance (withstanding) Te-Power of Ti-Power of hands with (material/tinkering) Ni-Power of the mind (reflecting) Ne-Power of the mouth (won't shut the hell up. Talking/texting/calling) The stronger the function within a type, the more attention or time you can do these. The weaker the function, the less. You'll fall a sleep.
@@Dubi911 THANKS! Yes that is Te, but do you see the theme here? I've notice that cognitive functions attention relates to one of the human's body parts. Can you think of Te?
Funny, because I very often zone out in my head thinking about something and then come back to reality realizing this whole time my brain wasn't tracking what my eyes were seeing, visually I was in a world of my thoughts (it personaly feels very cool, I get dissapointed once I realise I got back from my head).
One thing I've realized about myself over the years, and maybe other people with masculine sensory can relate, is that a lot of my understanding of how things work is weirdly physical, like analogous to things about physical shape, structure, direction, motion, interactions, etc. even for very abstract concepts. Things are strong from one angle, fragile from another, they generate impact, bounce off, might be rigid or flexible, etc. Learning stuff that can be very abstract often feels like it engages the same processes that I instinctively use when physically feeling out an object and figuring out its shape, weight, and so on.
That's so cool! I'm NT with m Sensory and I get that often I can't remember a name for something I will remember the smell, shape or colour associated instead! Which doesn't help at all when people are asking me what something is called... But it is fun
@@mysticapixi I have trouble with names sometimes too, though I don't know how I stack up against the general population. One case I remember is from back when I was studying math in high school and college. I'd remember what some theorem actually *did* almost perfectly, but hell if I can remember the random dude's name attached to it. The ones with descriptive names were much easier
@@StanTheWoz why is this masculine sensory and not masculine intuition?
@@SantiagoRodriguez-fe6ng I have the same question... I have the same, and thought it was M intuition, but it seems more sensory based on OPS videos.... lol.... I'm doing it again... the S says it's S so it must be S
@SantiagoRodriguez-fe6ng because it's a sensory data ie a theorem described by someone, the hypothesis is not something made by the reader which they are later describing through their extroverted deciding functions, hence the outer world infos (Se) instead of personal stories of individual sensory experience (Si)
Ni on the other hand would be for example how that individual sees the basic underlying theme of the theorem is a recognizable pattern (N) in other everyday objects eg how a car moves or how bicycle moves. TWO Se having common theme of transport [ Ni] as Ni works on a axis with Se
Why masculine Sensory people feel more present in the moment:
Because feminine Sensory relies on masculine N to remember stuff. The only way to access N is to disconnect from the S.
So we fS people go momentarily deaf and blind while we dive into our N (e.g. visuals) to grab something to talk about.
I should talk more about this, it's very fascinating stuff!
There's a huge overlap between masculine N anecdotes and ADHD anecdotes. But they aren't the same thing.
Interesting. I'm pretty sure I have masculine Si, but even though it's a demon, I'm always having to remind my sensor friend to be present in the moment, to enjoy the moment and stop ruminating on the past or fixating on fears that will likely never come to fruition. I'm pretty sure he's an STJ despite him insisting he's an INTJ, and if his Si is feminine, that would seem to fit. It's just crazy to think that an intuitive and an enneagram type 5, I'm somehow _less_ in my head and more present in the moment than he is! This is actually a large part of what had me doubting whether he used Si consciously for a long time... it seems so fleeting, hazy, contradictory for him. I'd think "How can your Si be so much higher than mine, yet you can't even give a straight answer to whether you're hungry or not, can't tell when you're getting tired, and have such a shitty memory?" My Si is pretty solid and unshakeable. I can always tell when I'm hungry, full, or anywhere in between, when I'm tired, when I'm sick, and my sensory memories are pretty solid and consistent. He seems strangely fixated on Si details, yet contradicts himself all the time. The feminine vs masculine element could potentially explain that though. I don't know why I didn't think of that before.
When it comes to contradictory memories, I had previously considered that Fi could be influencing Si, causing him to tell a different version of the same story depending on his current mood and what he valued at the time of recall. In contemporary psychological terms, this could be seen as "consistency bias," perhaps also "mood congruent memory bias" and "fading affect bias." However, now that I think about it, masculine Ne could also be a culprit.
Yes makes so much sense! My friend does this sometimes during conversation! I'll wonder how they could possibly not hear what is being said. Then suddenly they'll come back to reality just as I'm pointing out that they're in another world 😜 convenient
I totally process aurally. I used to work in a busy copy shop, and I'd keep four machines running while doing something else, just by listening. Watching a copy machine does little for you, but they all make different sounds, and those sounds make different changes with jams, paper running out, or when a run ends. I was capable of listening to everything at once, or I could focus on individual machines at will. So I'd be walking towards a machine as it wound down, and get there just as it stopped. All while being aware of the musak (drove me crazy. they kept repeating the same CD) or the surrounding conversation. It got me in trouble with customer service because I could hear the machines crashing one by one while no one else was picking up the cues.
Right now I'm helping to care for my folks, and I can track them from another room by listening. The rhythm of their footprints is different, and I can tell a lot about where they are, what they're doing, and where they're headed to.
But if I look at something then turn away, I can hardly tell you anything about it. And the idea of having some kind of somatic sense of where everything is sounds ("sounds", Hah!) claustrophobic to me.
I also turn on the subtiles for shows I'm watching. Then I don't miss as much of the movie, lol 🤷
yeah
I can really relate to Shannon on this one. Having to take in the audio, create a picture by tying together past information pictures, then create a new picture with the new information.
In school I felt like sitting in class was such a waste of time for me. The teachers lectures moved too quickly for me to really grasp the information if there were a lot of details to piece together.
I ended up gaining the most by reading the book while the teacher lectured or working on whatever assignment was due.
It's hard for me to learn from lectures, I gain so much more from reading.
When I'm watching a lecture, I always need to take notes, because if I don't see it, I won't remember it, I won't even be able to pay attention. But people with masculine sensory seem to experience the opposite: when they try to take notes, they can't pay attention to the lecture.
@@josehenriquefs888omg fuck yes. I’d zone out in class, then go home with the book and write down what I thought was important in form of notes.
I’ve always been a self learner but this makes sense.
The way Dave was talking reminds me a bit of aphantasia. The way I understand it is that most people have a camera in their head that lets them see images. I personally have little to none but dave sounds like he has a functional if maybe primitive camera.
I try to visualize and record everything people are talking to me about (except names), but I have to look away to see clearly at moments. Some people thinks it’s rude that I’m not looking them in the eye at that moment, but I’m picturing and pulling related things into that visual space and that’s where I generate insight and gain those ah-ha moments and have something to say that might be useful. The rudest thing people do is when I look away, they step in front of me - it disrupts my image and makes me so angry that’ll I’ll just check-out of the conversation because that’s exactly what they don’t want me to do, unless I am curious and they have info that I want, then I’ll tolerate it! 😡🧠😂 Those eye-contact-demanding people are like Conversation-Karens!
Omg so relatable. I also hate it when people are gesticulating some primitive hand movements to demonstrate what they're talking about in pantomime, and will actually pause and wait for you to look at their hands if you're not watching. What I imagine in my head is far superior to the visual of any gesticulation, and the hand movements are just distracting! But they will insist "You're not listening!" (How would you know if I'm listening?) I need to be able to concentrate on the meaning of your words (which often means looking away) to form an accurate mental image; I don't need a shadow puppet show or interpretive dance in my face, thank you very much!
Yes! So much so this! As I look away to reflect and contemple what they are talking about. Then they get louder or say my name or something rude about me not listening. It's so frustrating. I will at that point usually just stare blankly at them and turn off listening and just say, "uh huh" "you don't say" "well how about that" because I get the idea they want to talk At me instead of To me so I just let them have the floor. I timed it once and a friend then talked for 28 minutes about the history of his recent purchase and how it was invented and yada yada. I don't really remember much of what he was was saying because frankly I wasn't interested but I guess he just needed to hear himself talk? 🤷
There’s this comedian who does a character that is scarily accurate to someone with Masculine Sensory audio modality.
His names Neemanaz and it’s the character Shane.
You guys should check it out it’s crazy
I think, that "internal monologue" is Ne-Si. Because they think in words and Ni-Se thinks in movement and interactions (or something like that). What Shannon described looks like: capturing sound into Se unprocessed memory, understanding it by applying Ni, coming up with and answer, and translating Ni answer back to words. Ne-Si thinks in words and sentences, so they don't have this whole process. They just need identify objects (words) by applying Si, and then pick whole Ne idea stored as an answer. Ne-Si home environment is speech, and they see world through filter of language/symbols (Si). Se-Ni home environment is actual environment, and they have to translate their understanding of it to words.
Ne-Si have internal monologue, because all their thoughts are in language, even their actions, While Ni-Se just affect their environment with their body. No need for words.
Yeah this. Am Ne-Si user and even early teens I would have newspaper print aesthetics as my desktop/or fav Tshirt. And quotes framed and hung up the wall of my room. Language is my jam. Most of my arguments with people boil down to me taking someone else's word choices more seriously than they themselves do... "oh, so you used the word X -- but you really meant to say Y, in the end- we actually agree..."
@@audy2174 Typefaces, fonts - love 'em! I lost a whole afternoon watching videos about the Cooper Black typeface!
Kinda late reply but - I think you're onto something here. I am self-typed as MM Ti-Ni SB/P(C) "ISTP jumper" and very much think in motion, direction, form, shape, etc., other physical properties and things like that. I can appreciate and work with words pretty well but the way I generally think about things is...wordless, and it isn't visual either. A lot of the time it's sort of analogous to trying to figure out what direction something is in, like following a compass, or trying to piece things together to see if they fit in kind of a physical sense. That's meant that I'm naturally quite proficient with a lot of systems that operate using wordless logic, whether those be physical or abstract (mathematical or the like) and somewhat less good at working with language, since I generally don't pay as close attention to it, it's a step removed from how I immediately interact with the world.
Several other people that I know on either side of the Ne/Si - Ni/Se divide also fit this pattern pretty well. So, it's anecdotal, but definitely could be something. It makes sense that the Se would be paying more direct attention to sensory input from the world, visual or otherwise, while the Ne is sort of picking and choosing from that according to the known sensory Si, but can more easily make a new pattern with those knowns. Both have their advantages depending on the context
This reminds of Causal Cognition’s videos, specifically the “Ne and No Wriying Styles” videos as well as the “Symbols and Archetypes” video. They basically mention the same thing about Ni/Se and Ne/Si.
Correct if I wrong but I think there is a general misconception that feminine sensory people are visual learners.
In reality, it's actually the masculine sensory people need charts and presentations. The feminine sensory (maybe when it's a inferior function or the child/relief function like Shan's) have no problem recalling and visualize things in their head because their ni/ne is masculine and actually acute to learning things through auditory senses.
ohh My God, I just take so much to process and get back to talk. SOme people seem to be just so good with objects, I really admire them..
I love this aspect. Fascinating, at 2:57 I see masc S eyes versus fem S eyes and then when theres an imaginary picture on Dave's head, both pairs of eyes shift for a moment at 3:46
I wonder if this is why my ISTJ ex loves podcasts and my INFP ass would 1000% prefer to watch the same content as a RUclips video
Yeah, I can't do podcasts... I loose track of what they're saying really fast while I'm still processing what they said 4 or 5 sentences before
I like podcasts sure, an intriguing topic is an intriguing topic and if it stimulates the mind, all the better. I wouldn't say I have masculine sensory however, considering how often I dismiss the value of details, chalking them up as unimportant. Audiobooks on the otherhand.. I'm more likely to pass over than listen to them. I'm the kind of person who actually tries to listen to something I want to get into, so if I do something else in the middle of it, I zone out to focus on that thing and ignore to an extent. I suppose its how my mind handles stories as opposed to conversation.
I think I'm an IxxP but I enjoy podcasts if it's for the purpose of multitasking. Like if I'm working on a project that doesn't require much thinking, I'd rather hear a podcast than my own train of thought 😂 However...I won't do this with audio books. If I'm reading, I want to hear the emphasis of words from my own internal voice in my head, not some weirdo trying too hard to be a voice actor
@@chiara9721 Wow, you sound exactly like me. What type are you?
@@Xcopyz uhh I'm still figuring it out? Lol 😁 I've done a bunch of online tests and got INTP a bunch of times, and INTJ a few times also, but I have no idea how accurate those are. I know how the functions work too though, and I tried typing myself that way...but I couldn't quite figure it out
I wonder if the spectrum of aphantasia correlates at all with the spectrum of personality types.
I don't think so. At least, from what I've observed. Which is not a lot, but I surmise there's little to no correlation at all.
@@Law-of-EnTropy Can you expand on your intuition? My intuition tells me that strength of visualization, for example, could cluster around an individuals propensity for utilizing that mechanism.
There's a cognitive trade-off between visio-spatial abstraction (math) and object visualization (art) apparently.
So my guess is that Ses are better visualizers in general than the Nes. And that the Nes would have more people with aphantasia. It's an interesting question.
@@Taylorlit Actually there's some research showing a trade-off between object visusluzation and spatial reasoning on the tales of these distributions. So an aphantasic is more likely to find himself pursuing STEM than art.
At the extremes of visualization abilities, my guess you'd have more aphantasic Nes (math) and more extreme object visualizers Ses (art)
@@CherylBeachlerRizzo Do you have a link to the research? I'm sure the real interest is in how the extremes of the distributions manifest.
Ok , i'll make another information about mnemonics ( basically memory hacks , things like the mind palace and other similar things )
They all basically work on associating a concept with a sensory que : the memory palace is used with a place you know and a walk you take and then you associates this place with abstact concept ,
They are basically ways to make the sensory and the intuition togheter ,
A intuitive person will have troble when it comes to remembering the place ,
A sensory will have problems remembering the pattern ,
Both have to work with demons ...
Ok , so the subject is memory ,
And the way in which different functions are storing it :
Which is the masculine observer ,
Masculine iNtuition has faster access but less precise , as if someone is in the dark with just touch and audio ,
Masculine Sensory has slower access but has a more precise details , i am thinking tiger woods remembering what was he looking at minute x in match x ,
Am i correct ?
If yes then it should be :
M-S memory: +precision -speed
M-Ni memory: +speed -precision
And i would say basing myself over the video in which they talked about memory the more the masculine observer is MASCULINE the more the thing is extreme :
Super Masculine N will recall things very very quickly
While
Super Masculine D will remember an absurd amount of details about single events
citations :
ruclips.net/video/U0RrEebstx4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/BSKUfR9tybQ/видео.html
If anything I think masculine sensory would have faster recall...it's just very limited recall a lot of the time, to just a random specific detail. Or maybe speed has something to do with which function it is? Like maybe the masculine Oes are faster because it's just random data, not connected to a personal experience. I'm not sure about that. I personally am D-M-Se and pretty quick with detail recall but pretty terrible with visual memory, and not great with memory of things that actually happened to me personally either, at least compared to my D-M-Si roommate.
On a literal level, I think masculine sensory is actually much more comfortable in the dark with just touch/audio, since they're paying more attention to those stimuli in general and less to the visuals.
@@StanTheWoz What you said about MSI being comfortable in the dark is right.
As a visual-spatial dominant “thinker” not a visual “learner” my Ni will not allow someone else’s image into my memory. I convert words to images as I hear them and can’t discern between what I hear or see. All similar concepts are stacked on top of each other. So when learning new coding languages I use “c” as the framework for all other computer languages I learn. Each language has a color I assigned if the “image “ someone puts up on a board or whatever is in conflict I block their image out. I don’t need to really see the back of an object to know what it looks like. I pick it up with my brain and can rotate it 365. In school I would draw my image and ask my professor to tell me the difference between mine and the books.
Until recently I thought everyone could do this. Until recently I didn’t think I was stubborn either now I see the signs were and still are there. I also know which teachers and professors indulged my refusal to take in new information without an explanation of why? I’m still irritated that the EDU system takes 9 -12 years to explain why you have to learn triangles in kindergarten. Even at 5 yo there was a gatekeeper to my mind holding a sword saying “WHY”.
Thank you for the video. I actually thought that their might be correlation with masculine sensory and spatial awareness. Also I wonder if there are any differences between se and si since I always thought the biggest difference is that se acutally deals with Sensation while si already filtered out in a way (and is therefore less detailed), plus if there are differences with detailed sensory depending on where sensing is in the function stack.
This is an interesting one. I am not sure I look above or at the back of my eyeballs-it seems I look for the visual another layer inside my head which is staring off into the deep. I also looked to see what visually drawing something is like. I see the thing but also see the image in my head (and abstractly without). This is another way of looking at what I am looking at. Would love more videos clarifying modality.
This was a great description of the difference between audio and visual types. As I understand, this tracks with the gender of your sensory function, but you also track whether someone is an audio/kinesthetic or a kinesthetic/audio (and you associate visual types with /tester or tester/). Could you explain that, at some point?
So if i store my Ne in conceptual buildings and landscapes, but my Si is pretty much all phonology, syntax, fonts, and vocabulary, which one is masculine n which one is feminine?
Audio: When Dave said Metallica, i immediately thought of the logo, mentally scrolled thru each album, in order of release date, focusing on how the logo appears on each album, and the lyric inserts. In the background, my mind played the last Metallica song i heard recently, which happened to be For Whom the Bell Tolls. Does the music library setup disqualify me as an audio learner?
@@pebblebrookbooks4852 I think it even confirms you're an audio type... masculine sensory organizes facts on timelines. Masculine intuition organizes concepts on mazes of conceptual links...
I don't think all audio types have aphantasia. So it's normal to have some visualization. but it's more on the way you organize and systematize the knowledge.
@@hazesummer8328 That's an awesome analysis. Do you work with Dave and Shan? 😉🙏
@@pebblebrookbooks4852 well... not really 😅
I just follow their work from a while back trying to understand it. It may still be misleading though. so take it with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the compliment anyways!
I'm glad this was explained more. Really like it
Just about me. But also I seem to have both visual, auditory, and kinesthetic perception at the same time. I can hear the sound and "see" its image. And I "feel" his physical shape. Sometimes I can even feel its taste, unlike the taste of any food, just some abstract taste. In general, I do electronic music. When I write it, I see sounds in associations of some physical structures, but always abstract, which cannot be depicted in any way, like a 4d picture. I can imagine what kind of sound I need from the kinesthetic-visual image in my head. If I have forgotten how something sounds, I can remember in the same way. And I build the entire track and the location of the instruments in 3D space. But it wasn't always like that, only when I started writing music in 2011, over time this ability became more pronounced. Therefore, I doubt that this is synesthesia, rather a well-developed associative perception. Is this a masculine sensory?
3:22 - "Shake it by your ankles to fucking spit something out" lmaaaaaoooooo I'm laughing so harrrrrd I feel you Shan, I'm the same way xDDD
1:40 Shannon says that Jordan Peterson says he isn't a visual learner, but implies that she & Dave think he is because he often looks up while lecturing/teaching others.
But they've typed Dr. Peterson as FF-Ne/Ti-CP/B(S).
That would mean that his Si is feminine, his Ne is masculine, his Ti is masculine & his Fe is feminine.
So when he "consumes" info for himself/learns/takes in new ideas, he is using masculine Ne + masculine Ti. Double masculine consume is Kinesthetic/Audio. Right? That would mean he learns best by role-playing, getting involved hands-on, & hearing. So he really isn't a visual learner, just as he says.
Rather, he is visual when he is blasting.
When he " blasts" out his known info to others, he is using feminine Si + feminine Fe. Double feminine blast is Tester/Visual. He uses slideshows & other visual aids while teaching & seems to be looking up & "seeing" what he has previously read in order to recall it & tell it to others.
I don't know about this one, I feel like I do both very much. I'm a director and in preparation for a movie I will storyboard as much as possible, so that I can just execute on set. But when I have to depart from my plan and make a decision on the fly, my eyes move super fast and I visualize what each alternative would mean for the finished product. Then I make my decision based on what I see. - INTJ (maybe FM Ni/Fi sbpc but I'm not 100% sure on that) Once I find the time, I will definitely join your program to be properly typed.
0:30, I think this is more of Aphantasia than it is related to personality. Aphantasia is when you think of words first before associating with a mental image. This is why the most common thing you'll hear people say of this is, "my head is blank and dark." Of course, this also results in poor spatial awareness.
You hear chair, you think of a chair, you imagine a random chair you have seen before. You hear of a green chair in the middle of an empty room eclosed by iron walls. You think of that, and that's all you imagine.
Now, if you think you have a case of Aphantasia, can you try and interact with that? Most likely, not. That's because you are heavily limited to the words you associate with the mental image. Change green to red, then the chair changes to red. Did I mention lighting? Shadows? No, but you probably assumed a lightbulb was there, otherwise, the room would be dark and you won't make out any of the details I mentioned. Why? Because our brain is familiar with that and so it compensates for it.
Here's a great video about Aphantasia:
ruclips.net/video/ewsGmhAjjjI/видео.html
As aphantasics need to compensate with other neurological cognituve functions, it can absolutely be related to personality to some degree. Some research shows a spatial reasoning indirect relationship to object visualization. My hunch is that XNTPs have a much higher rate if anphantasia than any of the other groups.
On the other hand,, high visualizers have trouble with the generalization needed learn some abstractions involved in math.
i’m an aphantasic INFP who paints abstracts by externalising the process instead of visualising the result (if that sounds weird, it is 😆). i have poor spatial awareness/reasoning and am bad at maths. so i guess i just drew several short straws instead of one...
@@CherylBeachlerRizzo I still think if there's correlation, it's less prevalent to be the case. There is a pattern people with Intuition saviors tends to have Aphantasia, but it's not exclusive to that cognitove function. I have a friend who has the middle Intuition-second before Sensory, and their very good at both picking up patterns and visualizing the sensory in their head. I, having the same middle-functions, can't do that.
Well, if visualization is masculine N then I guess my I have masc N on top and didn't even realize it was masculine...
As a kid I used to go to church and sit alone, hearing the bible narratives and just staring at the blank, visualizing everything that was being narrated... I still do this most of the time, but back then the images felt way more tangible and concrete... Nowadays it feels more abstract and "sign-language-like"... This was so insightful, I feel like you guys are geniuses of this century...! And btw, Nikola Tesla must've been some kind of Masc N Ti guy too... Any thoughts on him? I'd love to hear!
And now I guess I'm not an FM Ni/Ti SC/P(B)... But I'm sure I'm some kind of M? N(e/i)/Ti S?/?(B)... Gotta dive deeper to find out... Or maybe zoomout of my head and get back to seeing (and *objectively* tracking) myself in sensory reality :P
I think this is just a good comparison of blast and consume; consume looks for all the angles a topic offers, blast doesnt.
Ha yes, this is why I have trouble following your earlier videos with the diagrams. You're talking so fast with your descriptions and I need to visualize to truly let it sink in. I'd have to replay video a few times and sometimes pause.
I got typed audio, I have an internal dialogue with concepts of people that are "My people" but it doesn't really keep me up all night.
What then when it seems you do both?😅
While my memories seem to be stored as video or png. files they're loosely arranged on a timeline, rather than branching or in a memory palace.
That said, my imagination is a pretty trippy place. And if I hear a foreign word I usually need something visual to connect the sounds to so I can understand the sounds themselves🤔
Very insightful, i would prefer more structure though,
I’d love to see you guys incorporate blockchain technology to assist your analytical process
Interesting! What do you think about synesthesia? Do you see it more often in some types than others?
ENP's
Oooo! Fun question! I’m an MM Ne/Fi CS/P(B) and I have synesthesia!! I never wondered about it’s correlation with personality type!
Thats hilarious.. my audio/kin esfp kiddo just last night, i was talking "at" her and she asks me what i was looking at.. and how i did that w my eyes. I was not-looking at a point just to the back left of her head.. Almost through her. I never really noticed i did that til she pointed it out.
Guys, PLEASE, check out Nikola Tesla's autobiographies and his descriptions of his "visions"... It's exactly this, masc N!!! Looking at the back of the eyeballs - tapetum lucidum - visions
So fascinating!!!! E.E
I think they meant sensing with the senses instead of feelings XD
Ya gotta love these folks.
Best thing was I realized I can stop talking
Masculine Sensory or Masculine Intuition? Well, I can say I can be a visual learner, but more often than not, the visual isn't really needed. I can get what someone is saying without the visual. My hold on my memory is like a large bucket with a small hole in it holding oil. I retain things for a limited number of time, but I will forget it eventually.
Jordan Peterson says he's not good at visualization. I doubt ENTPs are in general, but they do make those "searching" eye movements. Instead of searching for food or danger, a human may search for words or abstractions.
I thought he was double feminine with his Si and De?
Audio vs visual
Tfw you keep trying to grab stuff without actually looking at it and grabbing the wrong things.
Can you contrast audio to visual? I’ll email. 👍🏼
That wasn't The Simpson's. The Simpson's have been around for a while, but not *that* long.
eye accessing cues
Been keeping up with neurolinguistics?
Metallica had a pyrotechnic problem that burnt one of the guys in Montreal. Gun&Rose didn't play afterwards which cause a riot. Imagine the price of tickets for that show...
Yass. What they said.
Sooooo... How does this relate to the cognitive function interactions? They never got around to explaining that.
And what are the different modalities? Audio, visual and tactile?
Yeah. Pretty confusing at first. Modalities are Audio (MF), Kinesthetic (MM), Visual (FM), and Tester (FF).
First letter of order is in reference to your sensory (Si or Se)
Second letter is in reference to your extroverted decider (Fe or Te).
In this video they are comparing people who are visual (feminine sensory) to people who have masculine sensory (Audio/Kinesthetic).
Well their point is to get you to pay for their classes, so you get access to the whole thing where you'll find the answers
Yep, this ISFP is a caveman. Haha
😂👍🏼
Shanny looks so much older than Dave damn
I know it as the "Function Attention Powers"
Fi-Power of the ear (listening)
Fe-Power of the throat (preaching)
Se-Power of the eyes (watching)
Si-Power of endurance (withstanding)
Te-Power of
Ti-Power of hands with (material/tinkering)
Ni-Power of the mind (reflecting)
Ne-Power of the mouth (won't shut the hell up. Talking/texting/calling)
The stronger the function within a type, the more attention or time you can do these. The weaker the function, the less. You'll fall a sleep.
Te-Power of Decisiveness (Decisions, goals, executing a plan of action)
@@Dubi911 THANKS! Yes that is Te, but do you see the theme here? I've notice that cognitive functions attention relates to one of the human's body parts. Can you think of Te?
Remy B Yes, I should had put “Body” for Si. This isn’t 100% perfect and of course there’s more to the cognitive functions than this.
That's called making shit up. Half of those could be switched around 🙄
@@SpookyGhost11 You have a facebook? I can type you just by looking at some photos of you. If I get your type wrong, I'll admit you're right.