Reflections of a Mormon Historian - Sandra Tanner Reviews "Chosen Path" | Ep. 1867
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- In this wide-ranging interview, Sandra Tanner discusses her complex history with D. Michael Quinn, from being arch-enemies due to their clashing views on Mormon history, to gaining an appreciation for Quinn's tireless research into difficult aspects of LDS history, even as she remains puzzled by his persistent belief in Mormonism despite uncovering many factual problems. Sandra highlights Quinn's lifelong quest to reconcile his faith with the uncomfortable realities he uncovered, his struggles with Church leadership over his historical writings, the irony of him publishing an anti-Tanner pamphlet, and the sadness of his eventual excommunication which rejected both him as a person due to his sexuality and his meticulously researched historical analysis which the Church disliked. Ultimately, Sandra expresses a wish that Quinn was still alive to have an open discussion given their intertwined, conflicted past.
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Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:10 Quinn and Tanner were arch enemies
00:07:25 Quinn was gay and knew it as a child
00:10:00 Quinn facing divorce
00:13:25 Story of McKay wanting to rescind the priesthood ban
00:17:17 Post manifesto polygamous marriages
00:23:00 Joseph Smith and the Magic Worldview
00:32:50 Quinn’s dissertation and his pamphlet against the Tanners
00:37:35 Sandra’s take on Quinn’s version of the story
00:46:42 Quinn struggled with Apostle Packer
00:51:00 Quinn speaking on Post Manifesto Polygamy, she asked him a question
01:00:35 Louis Midgley’s beef against the Tanners
01:04:44 Quinn attributes his pamphlet to Arrington getting fired
01:10:16 Seeing Quinn get excommunicated
01:13:50 Was Sandra ever puzzled by Quinn’s continuing belief?
01:17:00 Sandra’s summary of Quinn’s book
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I can never get enough Sandra. I love and admire her so very much. ❤
An awesome lady
I saw her at sizzler the other day and said hi! (lol)
Sandra Tanner is such an exemplary human. Any podcast is a great podcast when Sandra is involved. Thank you all for this one. 💜
Sandra is a treasure! I’m so grateful for her and all her work
Sandra Tanner is such a gift. So happy to have a new episode with her!
It was Sandra’s books that helped me to leave the church in 1986. Beautiful lady !
I heard of Gerald and Sandra Tanner back in the late 1970s shortly after my older brother converted to the LDS church. My parents, Christian, were devastated. They found the Tanner's book, "Mormonism, Shadow or Reality," in our church library. My parents tried to get my brother to look at the book, but that was a no-go. That being said, they were greatly happy to have the information on LDS history and our family was grateful for the Tanner's work.
Did your brother continue in lds?
@@lornasleeper7262 Sadly, yes. He has three children from his first wife. All devoutly LDS. After his 1st marriage collapsed, he then married another woman, a real sweetheart. It was both of their 2nd marriages.
@@paulad.4578 I'm sorry for the pain that has caused your family. Prayers....
@@paulad.4578is your brother in Utah?
@@ATiredMom No. But most of his kids are. My brother lives in Southern California.
Sandra is ALWAYS a must watch. Her wisdom and demeanor are so calming. Your camera quality is better than ever. Production values rock.
Sandra tanner was instrumental in getting me out of the church. I had so many questions and issues and her website led me to my own research. I’m grateful everyday for her and Jerald’s in depth information. It saved me from the Mormon cult that was destroying my life.
I had no clue Sandra was going to be on!! I would have been waiting with huge anticipation!! She is my hero!! The only person in the whole wide world and my whole life I’ve ever wanted to meet.
She is our treasure!! I wish Jerald was here also. Both of them carried me through a very dark time in me life and pulled me out. They don’t even know it but I’m sure they’ve done that over and over again for so many others like me. I could sit by her feet and listen to her till the cows come home!!!
Love you Sandra!!! You are my rock of truth and bravery!
Truth
you praise people that you don't even know. only through a screen you enter their fake world. you would sit at her feet.these people did not save you! or pull you up. seek God and His only begotten Son that did die for you!
@@shebamaree9026 you reject/criticize people you don’t even know. only through a screen you enter their fake world. You would not sit at her feet . these people did not damn you! Or pushed you down. seek lies and their god.
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I can literally turn it right back at ya. You don’t know her personally either.
@@shebamaree9026 Aren’t you doing the same thing? At least everyone here can see that these are real people that exist and through their imperfect efforts have spent years of their lives striving to do good for others in whatever capacity they can. I would love to see a video interview of God or Jesus or any supposed deity giving us insight and perspective and encouragement on how to make sense of this crazy existence we call life. That would be a million times more valuable today than any books or sermons claiming to be from God’s mouth to our ears. John and Sandra aren’t even attempting to do that, they are just a couple people doing a little good everyday and it has make a significant difference to a lot of people.
The Tanners are the GOAT.
I’m a never-mo but have been following Mormon Stories for years. I have always enjoyed every interview with Sandra Tanner. She is a remarkable woman and I have so much respect for her. I’m currently in the process of deconstructing from a high demand fundamentalist Christian upbringing. I hope to be able to retain my faith in Christ and look to Sandra as an example. If my journey takes another path, I’m ok with that too.
Hearing Sandra’s insights into Mormon history are so fascinating! I love this.
National Treasure Sandra Tanner has saved more people than she can comprehend. In 1974 at the age of 14, I left Mormonism over doctrinal challenges at great personal expense. I didn't find the Tanners until the 80s but they reinforced my convictions. Thank God for their critucal thinking and unparalleled bravery. Deep respect!!
Love you, Sandra! God bless you!
Always great to see and hear Sandra Tanner. She and Jerold have made an enormous contribution to Mormon history. She is a gracious woman. Although I may not share her religious perspective I admire her integrity and sincerity, and her courage.
10 am…. Hit that like button. I can’t get enough of this stuff.
100%
Sandra Tanner! Thank you for everything you are and everything you’ve done - you are a hero and an inspiration x
THEE Sandra Tanner is right ✅️ such a legend! I'll always tune in for Sandra ❤
Really great to see the awesome Sandra Tanner again. Excellent shoectonight.
Love Sandra Tanner , Ive enjoyed learning from her on Mormon stories podcasts , this episode is so interesting. Thank you for the information on these books.
Going through a journey of realisation, grief devastation, at this time after trying to defend the church for years I can’t emotionally cope with defending any longer.
Listening to Mormon s p helps me knowing I’m not alone.
Thank you all
I just adore Sandra
I seriously get a little choked up every time I just see that Sandra is on a new episode of MSP! The Tanners are possibly the most significant and legendary Mormon figures in the last 100 years. I am so grateful to you John for being the kind of person that has been a bridge between such amazing people like Sandra and DMQ. She is truly one of a kind just like DMQ was one of a kind. My soul leaps out to hug them every time I see or hear about them. Thank you al! You have all given this stranger some of my most treasured gifts in my life.
I wish we could have a Mormon stories episode with both Sandra and Michael. What a Mormon stories that would be!!!!
What a dream come true that would be
Two people in SLC UT who saved me from years with a cult! Many thanks
Sandra & her husband Jerald helped me in coming out of mormonism decades ago. I would sneak away from home husband to Utah Lighthouse Ministries as if I were a sneaking school girl. LOL - I then began taking classes called Fresh Start in Ogden UT. My life changed for the best when my name & number was finally removed and I was free! Many Thnx UT LtHs
Great to see Sandra Tanner!!!!!
Please have more Sandra Tanner!!!
So excited to read Chosen Path and I admire Sandra and Gerald sooooo much!!! ❤️❤️❤️
Its so sad Quinn didnt have John, Sandra & Jerald and so many other resources before he died.
Sandra Tanner is a gem of a human. ❤️ I would love to see more of her on future Mormon Stories episodes.
I agree. She said she would entertain possible future interviews. She is still sharp and has a wonderful communication style. I’m hoping she will do a few interviews now and then.
As a never Mormon, I love, love, love Sandra Tanner!
If I am lucky enough to live as long as Sandra Tanner, I will be blessed if I have just half of her poise, wisdom, and incredible memory recall. Thank you for having her on. And, Sandra, thank you for continuing to share your gifts with the world. (With love from a Never-Mo Christian who is deconstructing the Evangelical fundamentalism of my upbringing.)
I’m right there with you! There’s beauty and pain in that deconstruction process. The pain is knowing that I was never taught to think for myself and the beauty is now I can. I hope you find what you’re looking for and that it brings you immense peace 🥰
Love Sandra Tanner. Such a light to the world.
Love the wisdom, warmth, and mutual respect among these Mormon Culture participants ❤📚
Oh, so awesome to hear from Sandra!
Sandra is such a down to earth person! She seems to know who she is and can rationalize her sense of reality, of truth. It's fascinating that she sees the parallel between Quinn's continued belief in Mormonism and her continued Christian beliefs when they both had access to the same history of Mormonism and Christianity. I think that this is one of the great mysteries of being human. We're all rational to some degree, but then there's the other side of our nature which is not rational, but includes all those human qualities of love, loyalty, generosity, humility, devotion, aesthetics, and sense of the mystical. Religion includes a combination of rationality and all these non-rational qualities.
Mormon Stories has a universal appeal because the issues of Mormonism are universal: What is "truth"? What are the origins of religious truth? How should we understand ancient religious texts? Can a society exist without some form of religion? Is group loyalty more important than loyalty to the truth? Loyalty seems to be a big issue with Mormonism and all religions. The struggle to go against a toxic loyalty is one of the great struggles of life.
Sandra is the same age as my mother. I wish I could hear my mother say similar things as Sandra.
Love this interview and a book review with Sandra Tanner! She is very graceful and respectful of D. Michael Quinn! Barbara shared great points and insightful views as well! Thank you MS for all these amazing podcasts!
More Sandra!!!!
Im happy that your getting history through the people who lived it. Very vital.
Love you Sandra!!!!🩷
What a fantastic episode. I learned so much about both Quinn and the Tanners from this episode alone and the conversations and stories were so enjoyable to listen to.
This never Mormon loves Sandra Tanner I could literally listen to her all day. So learned, so wise, warm and fun 🇬🇧❤️
This was a fantastic conversation! Sandra is a scholar and a gem of a person. I loved the insight from the discussion of the intersection of Quinn and Tanner's lives and work.
Wow, another killer lineup! Awesome 👌🏼 ❤.
LOVED hearing Sandra again.. I love her knowledge
A never mo here but love the Tanners
LOVING this episode! Honestly wish it was longer. However, this was my first time ~meeting Sandra, so I’ll definitely search for her elsewhere on your channel. :)
Sandra tanner is our treasure
UTAH !
In supreme gratitude to Sandra Tanner, thank you for all your intelligence and fearlessness!! You are a wonderful example to us all!! Watching on Sunday 😊
Sandra Tanner is a person of class and respect. Too much the Mormon Cult Leaders are not like Sandra Tanner. They can learn a great deal from the Tanners. long live Queen Sandra Tanner. I have just about off al D. Michael Quinn's books. Quinn deserved so much better and tons of more respect from the LDS Church and the leaders. RIP D. Michael Quinn!
If only he would have had the resources we do now!
So true.@@styphlynne8253
This is my favourite interview since Patrick Mason. Sandra Tanner is an impressive person and comes across as both balanced and generous.
I have some slight thoughts which might be relevant. If your life has really been led by the spirit then doctrine is immaterial. You will know if your life has been this way. You will also know that, while the church may be a conduit, it is not the only one and there can be a full spiritual life, with revelation and miracles, outside the church, even outside any organized religion. If you haven't had this as a reality in your life, then doctrine and belief become important, and your membership, or break from membership, becomes central. You feel vindicated when you leave but you also feel cheated.
I’m in my late 60s and I am really starting to live in fear of the aging process. I guess that’s because my father became such a crackpot in his later years and my mother’s dementia is so advanced. But every time I see and hear Sandra Tanner, I kind of take a deep breath and remind myself that people can be so sharp and articulate well into their 80s. I pray I will have half the sharp faculties as she has when I’m her age. I could listen to her for hours and hours. And I suspect she will still be able to carry on this kind of interview and pull names and dates and historical facts and conclusions out of her head in 10 years just as fast as she does now. I love her so much.
It was likely due to their diet. Doctors find heavy metals and microscopic obligate parasites in patients suffering from MS, Parkinson’s, Dementia, Autism and Alzheimer’s all the time. Drinking filtered water and eating an organic, anti-parasitic diet with foods high in tannin really helps. Limiting the use of pharmaceutical drugs to only what’s essential and doing a parasite cleanse annually has been beneficial for many people suffering from all of the above. 😊
Sandra is inspiring on so many levels!!
Oh my, I just got off the episode for a minute and when I came back in, I hade to wait for a church (LDS) advertisement. John, they timed that specifically for your show. Looks like a new ad. Ha ha
I get those adverts too x
I have been tuned into Mormon Stories periodically over 11 years from frequent to selective to appreciative of some content. Sandra Tanner has always been the best content.
Thank you Sandra. Wonderful.
The fact that the Tanners did all that they did and how they did it is incredible. I wish I had not paid attention to all the barriers the church put up about their work early on. Finding copies of their work is challenging. God bless the Tanners.
I'm making my way through all of Sandra's Mormon Stories videos. Her memory recall astounds me! She talks about things in such detail, it sounds like it happened days ago--not decades ago! She is so sharp!
I sure hope to meet her someday...
Sandra has taught me so much! I enjoy learning about the LDS Church. I know so many LDS people that I love. I hope they are never harmed by the church.
Like Sandra Tanner
I wish Quinns books were all on audible
Thank you Sandra for your continuing to engage and educate. I was wondering if there is a way to still order you and Gerald's pamphlets somewhere. Thank you.
In 1993 I went to SLC and visited the Tanners for an afternoon. I was in their living room for three hours interviewing both of them. They were very friendly and welcoming. I still have the tapes.
Yay Sandra ❤❤
Just learned about the Tanners as I have just recently had missionaries coming to talk to me. And now I've binged all the mormon stories episodes with Sandra. I'm a never mormon and also already adoring her and their dedication to the truth.
Sandra Tanner is amazing!
Quinn and the Tanners- Morman history I didnt know I needed to learn about. Havent been this excited to dive into life work since Carolyn. ❤ just wonderful stuff the last 2 episodes.
Sandra Tanner, yes!
Love this lady!!!!!!
Oh my! I’ve never been LDS, but I taught at a private school owned. I’m sitting on the floor painting with my granddaughter and I start singing the CTR song😱🤣! And the Red, Yellow, & Blue song-not sure if those are church Primary songs, or if the principal made them up!
John, check the lyrics of a "lost boy" Merlin Blackmore. He goes as Magic Merlin. He is one of a 150 offspring of Winston Blacmore from Bountiful group in Canada, which is a off shoot of FLDS.
It is very interesting
What a beautiful soul!
Brother Quinn and Sandra Tanner had me down a Rabbit 🐇 🕳 ⛳️ Whole I have never came out of
I remember exchanging posts online with Lou Midgely and he put me down because I accidentally spelled his name wrong. Midgley was a turkey.
There is no show without Sandra 🤭
John... Thank you!
I love Sandra! Even got to meet her!! I just wish she was able to get more than half way out of a cult.
You know Sandra is the pioneer.
Has Ken Sanders ever been on Mormon Stories? That would be interesting.
What does Sandra think about the episode on Ward about the temple ceremony in the dead sea scrolls?
Sandra Tanner please wear a dove of the risen Christ , he hasn’t forgotten you!
I love her!!!
Nine minutes in, when they talk about not being able to hold positions when you are divorced… I had been divorced for almost 6 years, and the church still wouldn’t allow me to be a temple worker!! Apparently, my husband cheating on me, and then leaving me for someone else made me unworthy to serve in the house of the Lord😂😂😂😂
I want to laugh along with you while also punching a picture of the prophet at the same time
T really enjoyed this
John, I repent. Your beard has grown on me. Keep it if you want. :-)
❤🎉
I find that my feelings about the Church still go through phases.I have not been active for some 4 years.I recall the different information that we get regarding tithing,,pay tithing before we worry about other bills.Will someone please tell me how a church with so much money,property etc they don’t allow Temple recommends to those who are not able to pay. So basically Mormons hsve to pay their way to Heaven! Basically a disgusting way to treat others. What would the Saviour say?
I put that together 20 years ago. Sandra & her husband Jerald helped me in coming out. I would sneak away from home/husband to Utah Lighthouse as if I were a sneaking school girl. LOL I then began taking classes called Fresh Start in Ogden UT. I had paid thousands to tithing, my missionary son in England, fast offerings etc. before I cut my losses and ran the other way. I taught the rest of my kids to be true to their soul #1- I had my name & LD$ # removed. REFRESHING !
Do you have an episode on Relief society presidents or young women leaders? I would love to hear an episode of women who were in the church and leaders.
Anyone know who owns the bookstore now?
Which bookstore?
Utah Lighthouse Ministry
Salt Lake City
I don't know who bought it.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do not sure anyone bought it. I think Sandra just decided to shut it down and walk away…
@LazarWolf07 The website is still there. It has thousands of church documents.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do oh right good call. I forgot that there was a website that was still up and running
Quinn was excommunicated & was still a believer until the day he died?
Yep
I was also shocked by this fact. And honestly pretty heart broken over it.
Jump back into the Mormon Stories Archive and you will find a couple episodes of John interviewing DMQ where he explains more about why he still believed etc. I really enjoy hearing his voice and how he described his experiences in life…even though some experiences are kind of heartbreaking too.
@@whitajeman So sad he didnt have the aid we do now!
Polandery, I had no idea. Who knew. Educate us
?
John is looking like a snack, that tan really suits u!
I am a convert to the church. I still identify as LDS, but I am no longer active. That being said, it has always been hard to tolerate the Tanners…maybe it’s how I was “raised” upon coming into the church
I fell deeply in love with a devoted morning. Whar I didn't understand was the practice of Polandary. It seems. She has several husband's.. .I didn't know!?!. Why don't you ever talk about that?
?
At ts 7:40 -Didn't most mormon Mom's put a fictitious dream out to their sons that they would be an apostle or prophet? 😂🤣
LMAO, now the church is advertising on your videos. AHAHAHAHA
She reminds me of my great aunt who I loved and who I miss so much. One of the smartest women I knew 🫶🏼
Sandra is an absolute treasure! We love Sandra, wish her the best in retirement, but how can we let her go??? WE CANT!!!!!
Wow! Pioneer apostates buying in more lies and half truths!!!