Superman asking "how does it feel to be deconstructed?" is hilarious. It's like he suddenly became self -aware and was really tired of writers making him evil.
@@neoforrester4401 Injustice Supes: "Hey, we're one of the better stories about us being evil jerks. And FYI, our first story ended with YOU defeating me so let's not act like we're part of the problem because we're an exception."
@@dnmstarsi injustice has its good points but I do think that when you make justice lord superman or overman have a better reason, emotional baggage, and appropriate response to taking over the free world. You’re probably doing something not wrong but off for superman.
“It’s not that we lost the ability to believe a man can fly, it’s that we lost the ability to believe a man can think it’s wrong to kill.” - Kyle Kallgren
@Ray Caster Yep, and you can make this same point when people whine about, Batman killing. He has killed people all the time, it's part of the reason he is looked at as a vigilante. Depending on the writer, he either can be seen by the cops as a vigilante trying to do their jobs...and making Gotham worse. By him being the guy to deal the justice, he creates his own villains. Then you have writers, where the cops love having him around to help take down the bad guys. Be it the cops are over worked, or villains with super powers keep coming...and Batman can help stop them. Who cares, if he kills every now and then?
@Ray Caster Well yeah, but Superman has the benefit of being fictional. He always has the power to do the right thing, and he always wants to. There is value in having an idealized character against which we can measure ourselves.
Superman and pretty much all superheroes are not police or soldiers. Those people have rules and codes that they need to abide by and authority figures to answer to. Superman doesn’t answer to anyone. Batman doesn’t answer to anyone. They’re people who do what they do because it is the right thing to do. And in the case of Superman, he doesn’t kill because he places his faith in the system to take care of things after he fights the bad guys that no one else can. Saying he should just kill Luthor or the like pretty much states that we cannot be trusted to make our own decisions for ourselves and that his faith is misguided. And that’s just a woefully pessimistic view of mankind, maybe that’s why everyone calls you guys edgelords.
"There are like seventy billion 'What if Superman was a bad guy' stories. _So let's act them out, _*_shall we_* ?" Not gonna lie, Linkara. That line's pretty badass.
What if Superman was a Shonen Protagonist: Eventually, Goku. What if Superman was done more directly by Toriyama than above: Truthfully, Kenta Kurakku/Sourman/Suppaman.
The line of "...it's not [a] never ending [battle] because it's a cause that will never be won, but because he'll never give up on his dream," lives rent free in my head. That line should be used by more writers that handle Superman.
@@K1ng1995I love George Carlin and think he was brilliant, but I can't agree with his cynicism. He was right to call out elitism and how people don't acknowledge reality or truth, but saying that we can't have a better world because there are people who aren't interested in making one is myopic and is exactly what those in power want. Dreams can become reality if you fight for them.
@@Double_D__ One of the biggest and easiest mistakes to make is to confuse being cynical for being realistic, believing that a better world is possible is the first step toward there being one.
@Double_D__ I remember watching supernanny as a kid and one of the episodes had a family of 10 kids and the mom wanted 12. Dad had said enough is enough and the older kids were being used as babysitters. When mom was confronted by all this. She starts crying and getting upset saying how it's not fair how no one wants her to have her dream. Hate to tell you this but according to social media accounts of that family. Mom and dad got divorced, she met someone else and had more kids with her current husband, and the older kids don't have a relationship with her So did mom get her dream? Yes but at the cost of her relationships with her oldest children, and her first marriage.
Linkara likes to quote Camelot: "Revenge, the most worthless of causes." But I prefer Marcus Aurelius: "The best revenge is to be a better person than your enemy."
@@dnmstarsi Revenge is worthwhile if its pursuit is a net gain for you, if it's a stepping stone in your life. It shouldn't be your whole life. At worst, it should be a hobby. Don't let it consume you. Use it to build yourself up into a better person, and stand above your defeated foe as the truly superior man.
This isn't just a deconstruction of Superhero tropes and Superman specifically. This is also a reconstruction. Yes, Superman is immensely powerful, but he's also kind and STAYS kind. Even when it would have been very easy to do so, he never takes a single life during this. Because Superman is a good person. THIS is how you write a superhero right.
It also showed that Superman...has a brain. It’s easy to write him off as a big dumb meathead, but he can actually be pretty clever. After all, his civilian job is an investigative reporter.
It's why, despite the actual reason it exists being very old and pretty dated, the story itself is timeless. Unlike some things I've seen, it stands on its own feet and you don't have to realise it was a response to something to enjoy it. Hell, the 2012 movie shows this story is still just as timeless as it was 2001 when the comic was published.
What too many writers aren't getting lately is while the struggle to stay good and not cross the line is interesting, but them crossing the line is played out.
Realistic doesn't equal good, Adult doesn't equal edgy, and Realistic doesn't mean everyone is an asshole that's what writers like Mark Millar need to understand.
@Brendan Milburn well honestly if someone filmed Wanted and Kick-ass to match the source material they had not only uberbomb at the box-office but they will have caused a lot of uproar and backlash towards everyone involved.
I find this comment ironic in ways my brain can't process, mainly because it is so true and yet Mark is still one of the people who write superman the best a lot of the time, i.e. linkara on superman for the animals.
I disagree. Have you read Millar's Superman stuff? I think people don't get Millar. Some of his comics are vile, wretched, and disgusting, but he's criticizing that type of thing in those. He always makes fun of our desire to see shocking and violent things, and let's just admit: we love seeing that type of stuff from time to time. But what I love about Millar is that there's always elevation. His stories aren't just mindless violence. In Old Man Logan all these horrible things have happened to our favorite heroes, right? The President (i won't reveal his identity here) has brutally murdered Captain America (don't worry, this is not a spoiler), and it's incredibly sad and horrifying. But then Logan uses Cap's shield, and the President is confronted with the ideals he thought he destroyed. Ultimately Logan learns to become a hero again, which is far from cynical. In Ultimates Millar portrays Captain America as an aggressive, out of touch American exceptionalist, but there's a point to it beyond "Hurr durr, isn't this character so silly?". Cap learns throughout that series the negative consequences of his actions. He learns he should value, serve, and protect the whole world, not just USA. He takes the Ultimates out of SHIELD's control and makes it an independent operation. Millar's writing is very cynical, but there's always a point, a catharsis of hope that's made all the more powerful by all the awful shit he shows you.
Batman: "You don't understand. I don't think you've ever understood." Jason Todd: "What? What, your moral code just won't allow for that? It's too hard to cross that line?" Batman: "No!! God Almighty, no! It'd be too damned easy."
DejaVoodooDoll Malcom needed king as much as king needed Malcom X really deserves a lot more respect on his name,but America labels him “extremist” and won’t give him that.
@@Archon3960 Heaven offend Bruce just snap the Jokers neck and be done with it for all his talk and platitudes Gotham is still a piece of shit he is part of the problem now.
I always loved how wholesome Superman is. He's a character who never needs a "dark" or "gritty" reboot, because he's simply a good man doing good things for good reasons. And that in itself is special, especially in a world as cynical and cold as ours.
Honestly. Batman can be edgy enough for the both of them. Though it can be a but depressing when Batman is written without empathy. I dunno. “Dark” and “gritty” in practice are usually stupid, tbh, since they almost result in reboots that take a random character, and ask, “but what if they killed people?” And there’s almost never any point to it. It’s just edgy because it can be, not because it has anything to say. You can tell poignant stories without turning characters into murderers and the like
in hindsight that would only reinforce people's idea of geting ready against potential evil superman from other universes (Overman for example) or other evil kryptonians like zod.
it's terrifying and heartbreaking because for just a moment I wasn't sure if they had some contived explanation, if Superman HAD killed them and more then scaring me it made me want to cry
@@sarafontanini7051 That is the brilliance of it. They give the readers what many of them claimed they wanted, for you to realize how terrible that is, then making you happy that Superman is still Superman. For those who say Superman is irrelevant (and people have been saying that for decades), the writer, in a few pages, shows that we are completely missing it. That he is more relevant now than ever before.
"They saw the ugliness of violence as a solution and it frightened them. It frightened me too when I decided to cross that line and do what you do. It's so easy. Anger, vengeance. Luckily, I'm not you. And I never will be." "Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting" These two quotes of Supes are my favorite because they represent everything what a superhero should be, Not as murderous, violent people being judge, jury, and executioner, but as people who show that no matter what happens, no matter how much people hurt you, the dream of a peaceful, better tomorrow will come as long as you never stop fighting and believing in that dream happening
The 4th Wall Kid Unfortunately, the problem with dreams is that you have to wake up to reality eventually. I can appreciate Linkara’s sentiments in this review, but I don’t think (at least based on my own experiences) that people are as kind and good natured at their core as he makes them out to be. With some rare exceptions, they’re content to let the world stay how it is so long as it doesn’t directly affect their lives, their families or their happiness . And when they do respond to and resolve crises, they usually go back to their old habits once it’s resolved, like it never happened. Remember, most of us can moralize, call things good or evil, right or wrong because we live in a part of the world where our basic needs are provided for and we’re relatively secure (the current pandemic notwithstanding). But not everyone enjoys these luxuries. For some, living in this world means doing questionable things in order to survive. They don’t know anything different, so it’s second nature, a grisly fact of life. When you’ve lived in the dark for so long, it’s hard to recognize or trust the light when you see it.
@@mattjones6578 man, you and Christian just completely missed the point and purpose of dreams and aspirational heroic fiction, didn't you? The whole point of superheroes and the values they have is having role models of what to aim for and be a better individual actor in the world. Ever hear the phrase "be the change you want to see in the world?" Superheroes are supposed to be stylized examples of the people living that credos. Just because as flawwed human beings we frequently come up short and don't fix every problem on the first try is not a valid argument for giving up completely on trying to be better people and steer others in that direction as well. And that's to say nothing of how silly it is to try to impose realism on an inherently unrealistic genre like superheroes. To borrow a Batman quote from Grant Morrison's JLA Confidential run: "These 'no nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in complex world full of jet-powered apes and time travel."
@@dmore454 I've got one as well. “Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay." --Gandalf The Grey.
@@mattjones6578 “You have given them an ideal to aspire to, embodied their highest aspirations. They will race, and stumble, and fall and crawl....and curse.... But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time you will help them accomplish wonders.” If there are people who want to watch the world burn, Superman can help them find a world that needs fire. Or he can get them psychiatric help to guide them to a better way. Or he can throw them in a cell and let them howl through the bars for the rest of their lives. Or he can arrest them and the justice system can finally nut up and send Joker to the electric chair.
Me, as a hormonal, edgy teenager: Pfft, Superman is so lame! Now the Punisher, that’s a real hero. Me, right now: God I wish Superman was real so he could hug me for like, a half hour.
I really like that comic of Punisher ripping a sticker of his logo off a cop car tells the officers that if they want a role model they should look at Captain America. I'm actually co writing a fanfic where Punisher tells Riverdale Southside Serpents Fangs and Sweet Pea that if they want role models they should look at Captain America and Falcon
"That's my deconstruction of superheroes. People can be and are, kind. So why wouldn't someone with incredible abilities be kind too?" That line is living in my head ever since I first watched this review. Thank you Lewis.
Because it's Easier & more Realistic for People to do things in their own self-interest; and use their abilities for their own self-serving agendas; Seriously; Because of all the mess going on in the world; IT'S EASY TO BECOME JADED & SEE THE WORST IN PEOPLE!!
I think so too. We haven't stopped believing that someone can fly, but that someone with great power would be kind. I think if anyone looks at characters like homelander and says "That's what someone would really do with all that power." That it says more about themselves than what they realise.
Stories like this are proof that maybe we DO still need heroes like Superman: People who are genuinely kind and decent and use their abilities and skills to do the right thing. Even when people thought he might be wrong, even when they pleaded with him not to, Superman has always kept on trying to do the right thing, no matter how heavily it weighs on him to do so, because that's who he is.
@DejaVoodooDoll And maybe people would not be afraid of arresting said "refugees" when they form child rape gangs, because people would start calling them racist or xenophobic.
That's one of the reasons I like Kingdom come so much. Perfect deconstruction of the 90's action hero trend, explained how the heroes we fallow are a reflection of the society that creates them, and demonstrated why it's important to have at least one beacon of virtue we can look up to, even if that infallibility is based on a lie. Only thing preventing that comic from being my absolute favorite is rising stars.
*Just remember* Funny, Superman and the rest of the DC heroes have been using violences to solved any problems. So it is hypocrite on Superman on criticize The Elite when he is not so different from them.
@@nexusgiga Violence it still violence, so Superman has not right to criticize. The Elite. Also, The Elite were not trying to control the world, they were killing other villains and nothing more.
@@nexusgiga And again, The Elite weren't trying to conquer Earth. I did watched Superman vs The Elite Animated Movie, and Linkara's video about the comic version, and in neither of them show The Elite trying to conquer Earth.
Same. Then again my nephew loves Fortnite and his dad insisted I get the damn game even though I helped him win a game for the first time despite being coached.
To me, there’s two stories that show who Superman is best. This one and All Star Superman. Stories that show that ultimately, Superman at his core is someone who truly loves the world and it’s inhabitants, and because of that he doesn’t want to force his way on everyone, but instead to show the way. There’s a reason he’s the “Man of Tomorrow”. And while anger is Easy. Hate is Easy. Pain is easy. It’s simple to want an eye for an eye, it’s simple to want revenge. It’s an ingrained nature of human being from years. It’s also easy to focus on the negative especially when the negative is what we most commonly see. “Plane successfully lands” isn’t a story, but “Plane crashes” is. And when we focus on the negative and are inundated with story upon story of the negative, it’s easy to label the world as broken. But it doesn’t tell the whole story. Are there things that suck? Yes. But for as many people who exploit, who demean, who rule over others? There are also people trying to go against them, to improve the world, to bring food and medicine to those who need it, to try and fix the issues of the environment, to try and fight for people’s rights. Progress isn’t fast, but we’re improving. It’s not easy, it’s not fast, it’s not glorious. And it’s always tempting to try and burn it all down, to force the way on the world to say “this is the way now”. But with people as strong as Superman, what happens when they decide that way isn’t the way? Who’s to say they won’t just get bored of that way and burn it down to force a new way. But that’s why Superman is a hero. Because he knows he has all the power to burn it down, but instead chooses to try and show the way. We can put faith in Superman, because Superman has the faith in us to progress.
@@satireknight Better than repaying with absolute hatred. While we sometimes must harden our hearts and even fight, it should be as a last resort as going straight to anger and hatred perpetuates the cycle of revenge. Seeking peaceful solutions first hand has a better chance of ending the issue.
You know there used to be a big push for Superman vs Goku. But I kind of want to see Superman hanging out with Goku in some contrived tournament arc. See the two get in a debate over their fighting philosophies.
This is why I love it when fanart actually portrays the two being best buds (including ones where they fuse), and why I wasn’t outraged at those Death Battle fights. Seeing the two together would be great, especially since Goku is known for his more selfish tendencies just for a good fight. Supes could try to instill something in him and maybe could be a character deconstruction of Goku to possibly justify that “Goku is not a hero” mindset.
Pio Nepomuceno Strangely enough, I was upset about the death battle fight for the same reason you were not. Not because Goku didn't win, but because out of all the fights on Death Battle, it was one of the ones most deserving of a draw. Goku as an adult has tended to avoid killing people who he thinks they may make good future opponents or are redeemable, and has never killed someone decidedly good, even by accident. Meanwhile Superman rarely kills and often times only when the threat is cataclysmic or apocalyptic in nature, and even then only if he can't find some other way. Following this logic and the fact that neither of the characters would risk destroying the Earth and thus push the other to their kill threshold, their fights should have been fought to a standstill and ended with them walking away. More than any other hero pairing, they seem to be the two I see as most likely to deny Death Battle their namesake.
SovereignAure I can see what your talking about and I agree but honestly I feel they would be a little unsatisfying to anyone completely hyped for that match up back in the day
@@skyslasher2297 That and it literally breaks the basic rules. 90% of the matches would end that way if it was an option. Removing the restrictions on killing is literally rule 1 of Death Battle.
"People want someone to FIX IT." Oh my God, THIS is where Frank Miller got the name "The Fixer"... I love the Elite crying "HEY! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!" when it looks like Superman uses their own methods against them. Yeah... You know what's right and wrong. At least The Joker gets a sick laugh if he can manage to push Batman into murderous rage, but you guys? You're just making excuses to be assholes.
@@ryanangelastro504 Joker is no different from Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Ramirez in terms of means and goals, meaning him escaping is just simply unrealistic considering what happened to those 2.
When Ozymandias mocked comic book heroics, it worked because his plan actually worked, and because superheroes actually failed. These guys though...they're just posing.
@@davidmelon9409 well kinda makes sense ozymandias critices comic books in a film. in the comic book he criticized "pulp book" villains. media criticizing different media kinda gets a pass.
I find it funny that not only did the animated movie come out only a year before Man of Steel, but Zack Snyder when defending his movies, unknowingly quoted Manchester Black with "you're living in a dream world".
@laz kar Snyder is Manchester Black, manifested into the real world and enacting his revenge on Superman by desecrating the character. Starting with "Man Of Steel" and "BvS".
ToqKaizogou Except in Man of Steel, Clark saved people because he wanted to, cared about protecting the world, didn’t cause damage out of some reckless glee and only killed as a last resort. I’m not a fan of BvS, but Man of Steel wasn’t as grim dark as some make it out to be.
This makes me think back to the ending of "The Dark Knight", and why I like it over many other Batman endings. Joker set up a near perfect death trap, with two boats rigged to blow if the people on one decide to kill the others, one with civilians, the other inmates. And both ships decided "No". Ultimately, no one wanted to pull the trigger, noting the minutes that passed where neither group was willing to push the button, much to Joker's annoyance. Then you have Batman not killing Joker or Dent, and taking blame for the people Dent killed, in order for hope of incorruptable "White Knight" in him to remain. Batman was willing to have his name tarnished and ruined, just to keep hope alive. To me, a hero is someone who is willing to sacrifice themselves, and not others, despite their alignment. Seriously, look at My Hero Academia for *several* examples of this! Those guys can get mangled, depowered, and dragged through mud all day, and they would still say, "If I can save one person, just one, its all worth it!" Come to think of it, that might be that franchise is so popular right now. Heh, now I wonder what a meeting between Eraserhead and Batman would be like. They would probably try to see who has the more annoying batch of friends.
Well, he did kill Dent, but 1. He was about to murder a child, and 2. It look accidental. Like he tackled him and didn't see the edge until it was too late.
@@christiancrusader9374 Plus as Linkara once noted in a video, while there are many scenarios where a hero who normally does not kill breaks that rule, it is often done through circumstances that are contrived and constructed to lead to that and that they ultimately do not change really anything.
A meeting between batman and eraser would be Eraserhead losing a glaring match Being made fun of because of adoptions And bats showing how much of a softy he is when he meets eri
Well as much as people complain about superman being boring. Despite the fact that steven universe, Aang, almight and might guy are very much loved. Shows me that characters that inspire against unwonted death and destruction and look for peaceful resolves will always be in the hearts of many and so will superman.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins I agree that is a big issue. Plus the comics and alot of media involving superman not showing more Clark's humanity and inspiring nature. Just mostly trying to get him to the action quick. I think if they did that more he would be more understood.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins I blame that small monologue in kill bill for doing that superman is God thing. It's why they cant choose between one or the other. Along with peoples need to make something dark if it's too wholesome. I love that episode and yes that is a great example of just being human. Superman shines the most when he's giving super people tours on earth. Or introducing others to new food and things to try. He just gets really dorkly passionate about it and its fun.
@@ladyaema The funny thing about that monologue in Kill Bill 2? _It is told from the perspective of Bill aka the Snake Charmer, the villain._ Thus, this view of Superman is held by someone who could be considered that world's version of *Lex Luthor.* Of course he would see Superman in that light. That's how Bill saw the world, but it does not make him right.
@@kelvinphillips7140 I agree. But just like fight club no one took the actual message and took everything at face value. Thus why we have superman is jesus.
You know, when I saw the ugly Superman it made me think back to your Superman: At Earth’s End review. “This is not Superman! Superman is kind and decent. Superman saved the world from the anti-god Megedon. Superman beat Solaris the tyrant sun and Brainiac and yes even Hitler in the golden age. Superman always followed his principles even when the world told him not to. Superman has sacrificed is life for the sake of others both in original continuity and in his excellent all-star series.” Linkara when I first found you I was a Superman hater like many others, but you changed my mind. You showed me that I was wrong and that’s okay. Just part of growing up. Thank you for making Superman one of my favorite heroes again.
I love the ironic echo with Superman's "lobotomy" on Black. Black himself had said that his team's actions were about "removing the 'cancers' that fester in us"... What is the act of someone abusing their powers if not a cancer of someone's morality?
and of course Black's reaction can be seen as him being angry that Superman took his power from him. AT the end of the day, Black wasn't a hero. He was a bully and a monster who only wanted to make himself feel better about his shitty life. Without his power, he's nobody, he can't do anything about it. He can grandstand about 'reality' all he wants, but at the endd of the day the reality was that Black didn't give a shit about other people and everyone was glad to be rid of him.
@@sarafontanini7051 And even then, Superman didn't take away Black's power permanently, an expression of humility and a strong moral backbone. He could have ensured Manchester Black could never perform superhuman terror again, and there's a decent argument it's a good compromise between ending the threat of villains permanently and not killing them. But it's not Superman's place to decide who has powers and who doesn't, he's not a god, he's not a lawgiver, he's a man who happens to have incredible powers. And especially in a comic-book universe, where do you draw the line on depriving people of powers? The same argument that would endorse permanently lobotomizing Black could potentially apply to depriving Lex Luthor of his incredible intellect. But most people would consider that wrong, even though they're arguably both just modifying someone's brain to remove an ability used to harm others.
I may be able to explain the Men in Black stuff. People mostly knows the movie, but the Comic book it's from is very different and got that "edgy" shit you could have found in other 90's comic, were our "heroes" kills witnesses and act like harboiled cop.
@@bthsr7113 To elaborate, in the comics the Men in Black were waaaay more amoral and did what they did as a means of keeping the world under their control rather than truly protecting it. Also in the comics it wasn't just aliens but zombies, ghosts, demons, etc. were kicking about too.
I felt that bit was to show how the Elite handles it when gov't officials do wrong with criminal black ops. This was a common occurrence in the Authority/Wildstorm universe that every awful thing and supervillain originated from a gov't agency. The Elite didn't arrest them like a typical superhero would, they executed them and murder their families as a warning to the next organization.
Editor: “We have to convince fans of The Authority to read this book. But how?” Artist: (looks up from pile of early 2000s comics) This might sound crazy, but what if we make the cover really bad? Dingy colors, too many lines, that sort of thing. Editor: . . . BRILLIANT!
the reveal of superman man just after he "killed" the elites has to be one of the biggest "oh shit" moments in comics. this is THE superman, the original that everyone knows from their childhood. and here he is, just having slaughtered three meta humans in less than 30 seconds. the big blue boy scout just obliterated them like they were nothing. he is pissed off and sick of these assholes traipsing around being all high and mighty about how they are better than everyone else. and in less than a minute he gave them a damn good hiding, shattering their delusions of grandeur and showing them that yes, he can kill but fuck you, he's better than that and here he is, at the end of his tether showing these jerks what its like when a super powered being slaughters them like they slaughtered so many others. he is tired of so many trigger happy dickheads going "why don't you just kill them" who don't seem to think about the consequences of ending someones life. he wants to lead by example, he doesn't believe that the ends justify the means and is willing to damn well try to negotiate with a situation that he could end with a punch BECAUSE A NEVER ENDING STREAM OF VIOLENCE IS NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION.
Thank you, sir. This is my favorite comic, and I come back to it every so often when I need a reminder that it's important not just to do the right thing, but to do it the right way.
Superman vs the Elite is a strong indicator that Superman could also singlehandedly defeat the Avengers. He just needs to be pissed, have a point to prove, and use all, or most of his powers, concurrently. Not to be the bad guy's punching bag, but instead make them his bitch. And, if you don't want Superman to be seen as a joke, the Man of Steel needs to once and for all put the Dark Knight in his place, hard and fast, and settle the BS that Batman can defeat Kal, even if it's thought only because Superman 'let's' him.
You know, something about Manchester Black, as well as what you said about Millar's run on the Authority just being the *image* of maturity instead of actually being mature made me realise something. Manchester Black's appearance evokes a Punk Rock aesthetic, which is heavily tied to the political movement of anarchism (what Allen Moore follows, funnily enough), about fighting against the state & other forms of authority for abusing their power via their control of the monopoly of violence. Yet that's exactly what Black & The Elite do. They don't protect people from bullies, they *are* the bullies. They just evoke the image of fighting against "the man" without actually understanding what that entails.
in my opinion the evocation of Punk and anarchist is good because its something of a mistake some anarchists make and im not knocking down anarchism here im an anarchist and quite a passionate one at that. Its just Black's problem is really that he is angry and thats good progress as much as we like to paint a picture of it now has always been messy, angry, and just a little spiteful. It was fought for by people with their blood sweat and tears. many gave their lives in a way we dont think about. But his problem is that his anger has no control and he falls into the trap essentially being as authoritarian as those he wants to fight its a trap anarchists have to be careful about. that line "Might makes right" is very much not anarchist thing or thinking if anything its actually what we fight against (tho linkaras line is very ehhhhhh in response) the idea that those with power should use it is um shall we say not something that many of us like most of us tend to actually hate the idea of nations lead by a person and tend either be decentralized or nations lead by councils. this sort of "if you have the power you should use it" is kinda of an ugly portrayal of anarchism and is more someone who is just angry using it as a weapon. and yeah anarchism can be a weapon against oppression but if all you want it violence then no anarchism is not your ally. Anarchism wants an end to such oppression and hierarchy using hierarchy to justify a fight against opression is more or less revealing the kind of person Black is. And he has legitimate points High Roadism is very much unpleasant and can come across as smug and ignorant by those that suffer (Ive more than dealt with it to have a less than stellar reaction with those that obsess over taking the high road) The High road is important but sometimes you do have to tackle people down into the mud. You should be better but sometimes thats not enough and if anything is more harmful. The high Road should be a goal but not a sacrosanct idea. People like black are right in a sense but in a way hes not because he shows how much he doesn't actually care about the ideas he espouses if anything he just uses it as a crutch.
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 Exactly. He sees the vague idea of rebellion & not the reason behind it. I can't see Black supporting ideas like mutual aid or self-managed workplaces. Also, I'm an anarchist myself. Nice to see another down here.
Another SF-Debris review that is relevant is Justice League: A Better World. In part one he addresses the question "why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker?" In part two, he answers it. Brutally, and in total clarity.
@@Wraithfighter Yeah I always wondered about that too. I think a scenario where perhaps the Joker has escaped after being put on death row but Bats catches him but realizes he's as good as killing him if he turns him in, would be an interesting idea.
Fair, but its not on him to do police work either. He chose to take on that responsibility. You'd need a whole-ass rewrite of the Batman mythos more than likely
Super-Heroes are not Judge, Jury and Executioners, they are individuals with extraordinary skills/abilities that can subdue threats that normal Law Enforcement or the Military cannot (or at least can't without significant lives lost first). If you ignore the meta reason for why Villains keep coming back (popularity, sales, franchise iconography), the real reason in universe for the status quo and revolving door super prisons is the justice system that keeps shoving the Joker into an asylum instead of giving him the death penalty. If a villain has been subdued and contained but is such a huge threat he can't be allowed to live, don't ask why Superman didn't kill the threat on the spot but ask why the government doesn't do it themselves now that they have it in their custody. Once a Hero has beaten the villain to the point that Police/Soldiers can safely take over, it is no longer the Hero's responsibility to decide what is done with them next.
The death penalty should be a last resort. Rehabilitation should be the primary focus. Sure, some villains like the Joker may never be rehabilitated, leaving the DP as the only recourse left, but I think that there should be another path. Something like what Prof. X tried to do: Show metahumans how to use their abilities for good, and teach them why they should. In world chock full of mind readers and magicians, the electric chair shouldn't be the only solution for crazy.
I'd love a story that explored that. Make an in universe reason why these big name villains keep getting light convictions in weak prisons. Have a group of rich and powerful individuals behind the scenes bending the rules to keep the bad guys out causing problems. There are people who must benefit in some way to all the super fights and destruction that goes on, make a story about that. Think about it, only the big named killers would get this privilege. It'd actually become like a ranking system. If you're a no name criminal you get the normal treatment, but a dangerous psycho like joker gets protection so he can fuck things up even more.
@@SomeRandomJackAss Oh sure it would be a last resort and not used if there is a chance for rehabilitation. But I think it's safe to say someone like the Joker is beyond rehabilitation at this point with his repeated offences and body count over the years. The main point is it is neither Superman's or Batman's responsibility to decide that once they managed to safely capture the villain. Only times where they would be expected to kill were if there was no other way to stop them like what happened with Doomsday.
@@juniorjunior5884 The Suicide Squad was one example of what you're talking about: The government takes imprisoned supervillains and puts them to work as disposable black op squads. If they survive enough missions, they get a pardon and are back on the streets.
The thing that strikes me about this comic is that in the bedroom scene Lois claims that Clark seeked the Elite out, but I don't think that's true per se. I mean before the big confrontation, Superman had three encounters with the Elite: 1) Libya, where the Elite get there before Superman and kill/maim everyone and then leave. 2) Tokyo, where they "Accidentally" knock Superman out so they can slaughter the Japanese Supervillains while he watches watches helplessly. 3) The MIB fight, where Superman takes out the enemy without killing, the Elite show up, announce they are gonna murder the MIB and their families anyway, which provokes Superman to hit hat, which the Elite are recording with cameras they brought with them. Now as Ian Flemming once said "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action). The Elite have a teleporter capable of reaching at least Io, and they have the world wired with their cameras, they deliberately set up these three encounters in order to rile Superman up, make him look foolish, and give themselves just cause to kill him when he finally had enough of their crap and stood up to them. And why? Because the Elite are a bunch of bullies and they wanted to demonstrate to the world that the could take down anyone that defied them, and they picked Superman because he's the number one hero and because his world view directly opposes theirs. What they didn't realize that just because the strongest guy on the planet doesn't kill doesn't make him stop being the strongest guy on the planet. And like any bully, Manchester Black was reduced to blubbering tears and tantrum throwing when it seemed like Superman was really going to kill him, when it seemed like his life really was on jeopardy (And how quickly Black went back to ranting he'll get his revenge when he realized Superman was never going to kill him). TL: DR: The Elite are crap, and Superman is awesome. Welcome to my Ted Talk.
Of course Losi doesn't know the full story and never saw directly what the Elite do, and she's also speaking froma place of fear for her husband's life.
@@kompuglobalhypermega On one hand he made a comic about the Spanish Civil War, an interesting time period for me. On the other hand he turned the annunciation of Jesus into a rape by Gabriel during his Hellblazer run (And since the Jesus comic was cancelled, this probably remains canon in the DC universe). I know this was on the 1990s, back when he was still a young man looking for attention, I just feel he never really grew out of that stage.
@@carloszapata847 He never grew up from his "religion hating" phase. Ennis is a hardcore atheist and sees religion as a bull shit made by people to justify their assholery. However, in his defence. He grew up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. It's a miracle that he is just the way he is and not worse.
@@kompuglobalhypermega I meant he never grew out of his making over the top gross and disgusting edgelord things in a desperate attempt to get attention. This has not stopped him from becoming a better writer over thee years, as Preacher and many of Punisher stories (where the quality is usually inversely proportional to the amount of superheroes) show. He however, has by his own admission, tried to sabotage the continuity of any work on a superhero universe because of his dislike over them. He has his right to hold his opinion, but it surprises me how they kept trusting him with superheroes (like in The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe). In many cases, like in Thor Vikings, other writers just chose to pretend those stories never happened. As for the Hellblazer thing, well at least not many people remember the Fear and Loathing storyline except for the readers of Lucifer who wonder how did Gabriel lost his wings and whomever did the research for the Constantine movie starting Keanu Reeves (who chose to ignore that part). On an extra note, when a story has a supreme god on it, I always see him as a reflection of the writer or an aspect of him, since they have a similar control over the world and the fate of it, but the characters have a life of their own (a writer may refrain from having someone do something "out of character"). How is God in Preacher? Desperate for attention. I think he know this is who he is and just embraced it.
@@Grim_Sister considering you can purchase working counterfeit magic rings in the dc universe(go read seven soldiers zatanna for details) that is entirely possible.
@@RobinDJoker I am aware. "wear" applies to tattoos... Merriam Webster: "to bear or _have on_ the person" There's not any distinction that it has to be removable.
I bet that was deliberate to show Manchester Black off as a hypocrite, decrying our sociopolitical structures while defining himself by either them directly or by railing against them as a performance.
I think that’s deliberate, the Elite use the image of rebellion and rejection of authority, when in their attempts to define themselves in opposition to nations and governments simply define themselves using nations and laws via their performative defiance.
I did like in the movie how it expanded a little more on the Elite and had them working and getting along with Superman at first. It showed that they were trying to be heroes and could have been great ones and that the problem wasn't that they were just evil but rather that they were extremists. Their views had some merit to them, thus why it was important for Superman to have an actual counter to argue for his own side. Both he and the audience can't just brush them off as villains because, well, they're not. They're not just trying to make excuses so that they can kill because it's fun or trying to make a cover while they're secretly robbing banks or trying to take over the world. They truly believe that their more extreme and morally questionable methods are what the world needs, thus why it troubles Superman for so long.
And Supergirl's adaptation was...disappointing, even if it tried some different stuff, like with Manchester Black never getting telepathy or telekinesis, just having a link with MArtian Manhunter because of some events and the Elite trimmed down to Menagerie and the Hat, the 3rd guy just cut out. The idea of anti heroes and such was there, certainly, but it ends...pretty awkwardly and is more about giving depth to J'onn, which is helpful in a way, especially as he has more of an arc in season 5 with his brother and all
-"im not like other Comics, said Other Comics" is the least self-aware attempt at self-awareness that writers love doing & is hilarious for the same wrong reasons every time -but yeah this is my prime Superman "see? this is what I mean" example here, he's the nicest dude possibly because even with all his powers, is still a hard thing to not be a dick to people being a dick to others
>because even with all his powers, is still a hard thing to not be a dick to people being a dick to others Superman is the prime example of what I'm going to call "strength of the fettered". A classic anti-hero schick is to assert that principles and ethics are a burden to be discarded. That only the truly unfettered will survive. Superman does not agree. Superman holds his principles as his true test of strength
One of my favorite came out.. roughly in the same time period? It was a big year for Extra Special Number Issue of Superman Titles. I think there was a big event around it. Anyways. I got this one and the one I'm referencing at my work's newsstand. Superman got teleported to an alien world because they saw news broadcasts of Superman, and the aliens are asking for help against the tyrants who took over their planet. Superman comments he'd have preferred being asked, but.. he's not going to abandon them, then he looks outside, comments 'Red Sun..' then just says nevermind and goes to help. The longer the fight goes, the worse he's doing, and when the alien who asked for his help says he should be a LOT stronger than this, easily able to stop the bad guys, Superman admits he's losing his powers under a red sun. The alien gets panicky and guilty, saying 'What? If we knew this we wouldn't have asked you for help! Why didn't you tell us?!' Superman: 'Because you needed help.' And that.. and this issue, and some of Grant Morrison's JLA, definitely sealed Superman in as my favorite DC character. Even above the Flash. These issues.. GET Superman. It was never a question of being Super. It was a question of them needing help. THAT is Superman. Even if he ISN'T in a World of Cardboard, Superman is going to help. Act of God can go fuck itself.
I defend that line since it's usually shown (at least in that issue of the Authority) that there is no status que, consequences matter. Jack Hawksmore said it after the team brutally slaughtered the government of an oppressive third-world nation; which the US President rightly calls him out on. Sadly, the comic treats the Authority's actions as entirely correct and that anyone who opposes the team as just part of the corrupt global elite. This situation was handled so much better in _Superman: Earth One_ where in book two, Sups actually takes down an African dictator (all Clark did was take away the military's guns and the citizenry easily overtook them since they had no local support). The UN is so aghast at his action and now worried over the alien toppling their governments that when General Zod shows up in book three, they cut him a blank check to kill Superman, oblivious to the fact that he'll destroy the Earth when he's done and would have if Lex Luthor hadn't sacrificed himself.
Ever since College people have tried sway my opinion of Superman as a very relevant hero; books like this are the counter of that! Superman is one of us; yes he was born on Krypton but he didn't grow up there; he grew up here with our morals, our values and more importantly our COMPASSION. He has faced down every threat both big and small and he has struggled with both his trials and morality; that makes him human; his strength to resist the urge to let go of all his parents, wife and friends have instilled on him; that is a very human traits! COMPASSION to me is Superman's greatest superpower
God, this is why Superman is my favorite DC hero. A girl I dated once had a friend who always trashed Superman whenever I brought him up. She'd talk about all his "unrelatability," how he's a god who looks down on humanity because he's perfect and overpowered. Whenever I'd try to explain that his stories aren't necessarily about the fights, but more what they mean as a whole, she'd respond with, "I just think he's a bad character." What's unrelatable about a dorky english major from Kansas just trying to do the best he can? What's unrelatable about feeling overworked with the weight of the world on your shoulders? What's unrelatable about being scared that you'll fail and what that failure will mean in the long run? I personally don't read Superman comics for the fights, I read them for the man they're about.
But in the comic the Elite still qualify as flawed "anti-heroes" who clash with the traditional morality of Superman. In the movie is obvious they planned the confrontation with Superman from the start. Maybe because by then, in the comics Manchester Black had become an absolute villain.
I never got the "Superman is a meathead" stuff. He's the scion of a scientifically advanced species whose toasters would probably require a contemporary Earth engineering degree to plug in, and his father is an intellectual of said species. His erudition may be limited to said relative Earth, but his prowess is not. He could easily be written as being smarter than even smart humans if he wanted to be, but instead became a reporter, which I believe would include some degree in the humanities, instead of physical sciences. Makes the character a little easier to write to.
It's weird in characterization, but even the best tend to make it more like he has great wisdom, not great intelligence, since he usually isn't about engineering or the sciences in general, but being able to outwit super geniuses like Lex Luthor or super computers like Brainiac
Back in the Gold and Silver age there was more Superman-as-scientist stuff, hence why Lex Luthor used to be a mad scientist. Also, doesn't he cure cancer or something in All-Star Superman? Another reason to love that book.
@@ToHoldNothing not so much when you really think about it. Of course Clark went to college to understand people better. Its his dream after all, to really walk in the shoes of and know the stories of all the peoples of the world. He's a reporter for that same reason, sure it allows him to be there when things go bad so that he can become Superman, but its also a free pass to learn all he can about people and thus the inhabitants of the planet that he loves most of all. Sure, he could also be amazing at science and technology, but it isn't exactly weird either that he chose to be a person that basically studies other people for a living. I think the only jobs he could have got that would be more on the nose might be therapist or anthropologist.
This comic is one of the best representations of who Superman is, why he does what he does, and how Superman will always be my favorite superhero of all time.
I think the best is actually from the third crisis animated film. Superman's reaction to hearing the only way to kill the Anti-Monitor and save billions of lives involves taking in more solar energy than he can handle and will kill him; "I call that a bargain"
This had to be a unique case where the comic is both dated and timeless. The reason it exists is very dated but the message itself is timeless. One should only kill if there is no alternative and an alternative should always be the first priority.
@@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780 Supes and Jiren are totally the same- both are superheroes, both are aliens, both are really strong, and they both wear red. Practically the same.
@@Future_Vantas In the manga he is first presented more as a person that cares for being a hero. Then the tournament begins and he becomes just another "might makes right" dude. A shame.
I've wrestled with pessimism my entire life. I saw this review not long after I had to have the police called on me to talk me out of committing suicide. Things weren't going well, what with college not helping me get out of working dead end jobs, my writing career not going anywhere, my father passing away, and all the news about the pandemic and how nobody where I live seems to care. Despite all of that, I have friends and family who care about me, and in my darkest hour, it was hard for me to think about how it would affect them if I had went through with it. Linkara is right; although it's easy to see the horror and injustice that happens in this world, it's also easy to overlook the goodness and compassion that's here too. Watching this and listening to you has given me a lot to think about. It's not always easy, but I want to look more on the brighter side of things. Thank you, and keep doing what you're doing.
Oh it's THIS story. Never watched Superman vs the Elite but I have seen the big fight and as much as I love boy scout Superman, seeing him seemingly snap and unleash his full potential to "kill" the Elite was amazing. Helped by the fact George Newbern used his Sephiroth voice for it.
Apparently Fun fact: The Sephiroth bit was purely coincidental. Newbern was told to do a deeper Superman voice.If that is true, then that means Sephiroth is just Dark Superman. LOL
@@smashmaster521 I meant more applying that to Superman as a backstory in an Elseworlds title, though I might be missing one that already does that. There's some cool ones, like a trilogy that reimagines things with inspiration from Fritz Lang's Metropolis, Superman's Metropolis (yeah, bit on the nose with the title)
In a time of a pandemic, where it seems like our leaders are failing us.... in a time of uncertainty.... I wanna say thank you Linkara for this review. Thanks for reminding us what it takes to be a hero. Literally shedding tears as I write this. Take care 💚
"When people are scared, they tend to jump on a bandwagon well before they see who's driving it. But when they wise up: & they will, what matters is that you'll be right there leading by example just like always. Truth, Justice and the American Way- It ain't broke, so don't fix it".
contrary to a lot of other superheroes, superman didn't have some personal tragedy to shape him into who he is. he became a good man because he wanted to be a good man. i remember this wonderful speech from the 12th doctor and it fits this discussion well: Hey! I'm going to be dead in a few hours, so before I go, let's have this out. You and me, once and for all. Winning? Is that what you think it’s about? I’m not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone - or because I hate someone, or because I want to blame someone. It’s not because it’s fun. God knows it’s not because it's easy. It’s not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all, it's kind! It's just that. Just kind. If I run away today, good people will die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live - maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, maybe there’s no point in any of this at all, but it's the best I can do. So I'm going to do it, and I will stand here doing it until it kills me. You're going to die, too, someday. When will that be? Have you thought about it? What would you die for? Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. Stand with me. These people are terrified. Maybe we can help a little. Why not, just at the end, just be kind?
I think you pretty much nail it here. Clark kent didn't became superman because of some weird accident or tragedy or forced manipulation. He chooses to be superman! He is not superman because of some pathos( its not that he doesn't have some) but because the character is driven by his ethos. Choices and values. This is something that many writers just simply forget or misunderstand about him.
18:46 *Stares directly at Ignited* "I think you're trying too hard." 19:26 Ladies and Gentlemen, Stain from My Hero Academia. Yes, I know, the problem with their society is far more complicated than that, but there *is* some grain of truth to Stain's statement. An important part of being a Hero in that world is getting a sponsor, after all. 27:26 To take a line from Grant Morrison's *Flex Mentallo: Man of Mystery* : "Only an adolescent boy would confuse pessimism for realism." 28:08 Fitting, given the upcoming explosion. =D 31:48 I know, I'm bring up My Hero Academia again, but it's for a purpose. For all the good people in that world, for all the Heroes in it ( *True* heroes), there's still villains. Why? For a number of reasons, really. Some thought they were dealt a bad hand, and wanted to take out their anger on the world for abandoning them when they needed them most (Tomura). Some were upset they were never given the help they needed, so they became mean, but stayed kind to their own inner circle (Twice, Touga). Then, some felt that they were unjustly left behind by society, so they became a villain in the hope that they would inspire *someone* , that they would be remembered (Gentle).
I'm not going to lie. Watching this video and SF Debris' video of Superman vs the Elite back to back, legit, just changed my viewpoint in life. No matter how bad things get. No matter how horrible people run countries into the ground for profit and power. No matter how they can keep getting away with it... I will never lose my morals. And I, and I hope we all, will take this lesson in stride, and stop these guys again and again, until they or society changes for the better. Thank you, Lewis, SF, the Patreon who requested this, and Joe Kelly. Genuinely, I will be a better man today.
If I remember correctly, in JLElite or somewhere Coldcast said that the other members of the Elite were being partially mindcontrolled by Manchester Black at this point, and that he made Coldcast dress like that because Black was a racist who thought it'd be funny to dress the one African American bloke on the team in a costume which referenced slavery.
Thanks for the explanation. I wondering why everyone brushed over that part of his design so quickly, especially since it's _super_ racist and his outfit had nearly NOTHING to do with electromagnetism.
18:30 - Hoo boy. This is the brush so many of the fringe creators paint all comic book professionals under. Hating the medium, hating the fans, and hiding behind the money of big corporate backers more interested in the stories of 30 years ago while they gleefully rip apart those characters and laugh at any fans of them. And stuff like this, this “too cool for school” attitude is what gives those critiques power, sends fans of superheroes running to every medium but comics to the point i half expect the MCU X-Men to have a joke where someone calls their mutant power a Quirk. Mediums should not be above critique and above reproach. But when you constantly tell people “this sucks and you suck for liking it”, and then they leave the medium, don’t act surprised.
32:02 "That's my deconstruction of superheroes. People can be and are kind, so why wouldn't someone with incredible powers be kind too?" That's not a deconstruction Linkara. That's a Reconstruction
This is why I always play the compassionate and generous paragon hero in video games. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Infamous, it doesn’t matter. That’s because if the real world had people which as much power and influence as a video game protagonist, this is what I want them to be like. These games give you the option to be an unscrupulous jackass but I never take it because that’s not what I want to see. It’s not the person I would want to even pretend to be.
I had watched a number of Frank Miller reviews prior to Born Again last week, and this coming out showcasing one of Superman’s finest moments makes me all the more pissed off at the way Miller wrote Superman in Dark Knight Strikes Again and ASBAR as either an innefectual meathead or just as inclined to want to rule over the earth like a god.
@Naquin Green He can't write for ANYONE because he doesn't GET anyone. He uses their names/character models as vessels for his own thoughts/opinions. He doesn't write Batman stories, he writes Frank Miller stories starring "Batman". Even with his actual critically acclaimed books, this is still true, it's just that his actual "good" works became mainstream and changed character X (Batman and Daredevil) to be a bit/lot closer to his version.
Even before I bought my first official comic book, that being Deadpool: Dracula´s Gauntet Nr. 1, I read this one as the part of a collection of Superman comics published by a local magazine to raise awareness of certain comics in Europe. This was before the whole MCU wave started. Looking back it is an interesting starting off point for somebody who has never earnestly read comics before.
"What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way?" Would make the perfect live-action Superman movie. Not only is its deconstruction of the superhero genre and critique of violent antiheroes ever-relevant, but Warner Bros could easily use it as a way to make Superman "relevant". In this version, The Elite could be something like The Seven from "The Boys", ruthless, violent demi-gods motivated by greed and fame. Superman, on the other hand, would be the ideal foil, a traditional hero who is motivated by compassion and spreading hope.
One of the things I love about the movie adaptation of this comic is how well it captures Superman’s character. He’s powerful, yet kind and knows the value of restraint and compassion, something the Elite obviously don’t care about. I also love Lois and Clark’s relationship in the movie. In fact, I think it might be my favorite version of the two. They clearly love each other, and while they may have their moments where they give each other grief, it’s always done in a way where you can tell they care about each other. Honestly, while James Gunn has already stated he’s taking influence from the DCAU for the DCCU (Not DCEU), I really hope he’s also taking influence from Superman VS The Elite as that’s also a great portrayal of Superman’s character.
definitely in the top worst DC storys. But that's just my view. I could justify it. But surely you have reasons to like it too.@@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS
Something that I do appreciate from the film version is that The Elite aren't immediately presented as ugly and cocky. Instead, it first introduces them with what makes their style so attractive and giving their worldview a bit sincerity to start with. The cracks in their image really start to show over time and through further displays of their actual decent into what brings that idea into extremism. It takes you along into this process of radical thinking as a way to expose it as radicalization.
Loved superman vs the elite, so curious about the source material. Also - definitely glad they changed the name to something that's not such a mouthful
@@chubbubdreamer6904 Regan before being president was a pretty succesfull governor in California for 8 years and has stopped being an actor to become a politcian long before his second presidential attempt.Trump is much more out of the blue event
That whole thing about Mark Millar taking over The Authority & turning it into his typical mindless edgelord 'offensive for the sake of being offensive', Frank Miller protege bullshit & having to come forward with a response to that mindset reminds me of just how good Kingdom Come is.
Kingdom Come is good cuase its a similar deconstruction/reconstruction by having the one who saves the day be just some ordinary man who convinces the heroes that this path of destruction, death and violence just ISN'T the way and ISN'T them
@@panthergod if he is using satire, he is pretty good to hide it becaue neither in his run of Authority,, the Ultimates, in Wanted and many other of his work i ever notice that. What i get is the nasty potshot towards the fandom, the character, the medium plus the perennial use of the same couple of narrative device
Reminds me of the line from Flex Mentallo. "Only a foolish adolescent would confuse pessimism for realism" Yes, in real life villains are not cackling mad scientists but also in real life many if the bad guys have the same power hungry vigilante attitudes of Mark Millar's Authority.
It's called "A Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it George Carlin aka Mr Conductor, and the only way I'll change my mind about that is when politicians keep their noses out of women's uterus #prochoice #endproject2025 Look everyone has dreams but you have to be a realistic with them. I remember an episode of Supernanny where the family Jo was helping had 10 kids. Ages ranging from teenager to toddler, and the kids themselves weren't even "Bad kids" they were just little kids the problems came from because there were so many. We find out mom wants 2 more kids and her dream was to have 12 kids. As Jo watches on we see that the oldest kids are being used as live in babysitters and one of them has a panic attack. When Jo talks with the parents and Dad admits he's done having kids, and that he's so stressed out from work that he's drinking more and more, mom then starts crying and gets upset saying that no one supports her dream, and how everyone is "attacking her" Hate to break it to you. But according to social media Mom and dad got divorced. Mom got remarried and has 2 more kids, and her oldest kids don't have a relationship with her.
What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way seems like my favorite kind of Superman story - one that explores how Superman struggles to stay true to his morals while being challenged by the ugly side of humanity. I always roll my eyes whenever people call Superman "boring" or that the fact that he has great power and uses it for good is "unrealistic". Yes, we live in a world that often rewards evil people, but good people do exist, and when those good people have power, they use that power to do good. That is what makes Superman the classic superhero. He is, at his core, a good person with great power who uses that power to help others. He isn't perfect or boring, he's just... nice.
I have come back to this review almost every day lately. Its currently the end of may of 2020, and the US just keeps getting crazier. I come back here to try and remind myself of the ideals I try to live up to and teach. You dont have to become ugly and mean because the world is also becoming that. You can try and hold yourself higher. To be someone who fights for a hopeful future by being better than the world you see, instead of being like the world. Sometimes it means having to do the same things again and again. But just cause the battle is never ending, does not mean it isn't worthwhile.
The battle is never ending cousin because neither you or I are going to give it up. A world where dignity, honor and justice are a reality we all share is worth it.
The movie’s changes tended to be very minimal and done for plotting and flow. Except making The Hat a homage to Jigen from Lupin III, that’s just an out there reference.
I’ve been really consumed by anger lately- looking for someone, anyone, to blame for this, wanting them dead. A year ago, I was having bad anxiety issues had to withdraw from college, was out for most of a year trying to get my meds straight, was finally going back this spring and getting my life back on track when this mess happened- this really helped a lot, man. Things still aren’t perfect, I’m still not perfect, and I learned the hard way never to consider internet reviewers I’ve never actually met as being like “family” to me- not after finding out about CA’s behind the scenes stuff- but seriously, THANK YOU. I think I really needed to hear this right now.
"They love us for it" could also be a comment about how those books were actually quite profitable. Comic book fans _themselves_ loved them for it, apparently?
It likely was both. After all, sales popularity reflects a popularity in the mainstream discourse, and a fringe group like comic book buyers having any sort of massive buying habit that reflects a political ideology indicates that either the ideology is in that group to the near exclusion of others or is so widespread it's infecting subcultures which are usually insulated from mainstream society influence like that.
To me; One of the most fun things about goody-two shoes, nice guy, paragon heroes is when they finally SNAP; It's fun, cathartic, surprisingly terrifying, and a stark reminder WHY they should be nice in the first place.
I remember an interesting character in anime that might also elaborate on this situation: Kiritsugu Emiya Kiritsugu was a man who did want a better world for people but after being forced into situations where he had to kill those he loved for the greater good, he became cold and cynical. Even the Grail saw this cynicism and would have killed the world if not for his choice to destroy the grail at the cost of the Great Fuyuki Fire. However, he was saved in a sense when he choose to save one life, he who would become Emiya Shirou, instead of prioritizing the many at the expense of the few. I bring Kiritsugu up because I initially thought that the ideas deconstructed in this comic were different from Kiritsugu's. However, I realize that in the end, they had the same message. The idea of saving people, of being kind to people triumphs over the cold calculating many over the few mentality
I always thought Jack Rider was a bit of a mirror of Clark's straight laced approach. Hence the similar but "scruffy" design. Too add, the Elite at the time didn't need characterisation as the Authority was well known, even today it's enough to know they are simply Uber dicks. Plus they become a bit of a parody of Image as a whole at the time. Just thoughts 😊
this is my favorite video you've ever made linkara. and I mean this genuinely. After this review alone it made me rethink my own views on Superman. I genuinely learned and adapted my opinion on him. This is quiet possibly the best review you've ever done. I'm glad to have watched it more than a year ago
@@l0sts0ul89 I originally thought superman before was honestly a really boring character. And I'll admit I didn't read a lot of books about superman either because I just wasn't interested. However after this specific review I found superman a greatly superior character to watch and to understand. Made me go out and actually buy a superman comic
I came here just after watching a clip of a Superman clone kill the Toyman in that movie Superman: Doomsday where people in the comment section are praising Superman for doing it. to say that this comic and its movie adaptation Superman vs the Elite is relevant today would be an understatement considering the huge amount of cynicism we got today.
With everything going on in the world right now, I'm glad I watched this review. I've been so angry about everything happening lately, and this helped me put things in perspective. Thank you Linkara.
@@kimifw58 He also adresses it in March of The Titans and Countdown. That is exactly why it is funny. Linkara's fave superheroes the Titans dies left and right and never returns. In strong contrast to his fake death/revival joke on Superman. The titans are also my fave superheroes including Danny..... OTL
By far one of my favorite Superman stories. It's a perfect response to the cynical 'evil superman' stories too. As fun as those what ifs can be, I think it's easy to lose sight of who modern Supes is. Superman isn't just a symbol that spouts catch phrases. He's a character. He makes decisions, he has mental strength to do so. I find he's at his best when he's no longer a mascot or a Jesus allegory. But rather a good person. Superman is at his best, when he's a good person. Not always perfect, but always trying he best to do whats right.
1 reason I love superheroes is because they give us something to strive towards. When I see Superman I see a man who lost everything and still grew up to represent hope and peace. That why I love superman. It's important and valid to have role models in stories it gives people hope in a better world. It inspires people to act righteously and good.
"I got my morals more from Superman than I ever did from my teachers and peers. Because Superman wasn't real - he was incorruptible. You were seeing morals in their pure form. You don't see Superman secretly going out behind the back and lying and killing, which, of course, most real-life heroes tend to be doing." Alan Moore
I think you're missing the point of the cover. Yes, it looks like all that destruction is Superman's fault, and that's the point. The intention of the comic is not preaching to the choir, but to explain to fans of books like The Authority why a character like Superman acting that way is not a good thing. So they attract them with a cover that shows them what they want to see _("Sweet! Superman with NO LIMITS!")_ and then proceed to explain in the comic why such a thing would be a bad idea.
It still looks awful and it's kinda misleading when you have Superman look like he's taking a page from that series but instead he's being someone who's against that crap.
I like how the movie had Superman interacting with the Elite for a bit before he realized how their extreme they were (also they turned the Hat into a Superman fanboy which is hilarious).
What 90’s Anti-Heroes and the Watchmen share in common is that both are fascists. The only differences are that the Watchmen were intentionally written as fascists and that the titular comic frames this as a bad thing.
Anything to slam Mark Miller's writing, I'm a fan. I remember watching Superman vs. The Elite with my non-comic book reading brother and it was the only time we had a genuinely somewhat deep conversation about the ethics of when superheroes set themselves up as ultimate authority figures.
And this is why Superman is so awesome. As Flash in the Justice League TV series pointed out when they fought the Justice Lords, "He's not that much of boy scout after all." And Superman admits it, but what he is just a man who always tries to be better. He wakes up every day and tries to do good and be better then he was yesterday. Sometimes he makes mistakes and sometimes he has to make compromises and cross some kind of line, but he very rarely ever crosses the biggest line there is, except in very specific circumstances, and that is to kill. All life is precious, so he almost always tries to find another way, sure sometimes there are those that require more serious solutions, like the Elites here, but he almost never goes that far as to kill, at least not until every other option has been exhausted. He always shows restraint, which is what true power is, not abusing it and knowing when and who it's truly called for. That is why he and a few other heroes are people we should aspire to be, not perfect do-gooders, but just people trying to do what they can, to just try and be good and be better then what they could be.
I will admit that Superman has never been my favorite hero. Sure, he's an admirable man, but that gets boring in the long run. But this story... I find this story better than All-Star Superman. Because this, more than anything I've seen or heard of, demonstrates just why Superman is the symbol of hope. He's not relatable in most ways, but he's not supposed to be. He's an example of taking the high road, and even if it's easier for him than those of us who don't have the option of shrugging off bullets, Superman is still the quintessential hero figure the world needs, and has always needed.
Superman isn't "boring". It's just that many of his writers can't figure out how to use him, and what stakes to really make him fight for. Marvel had a similar problem with Captain America, indeed most of the Avengers, in the 80s. Today, we know Cap as a man of strong convictions, a guy who can be an force of nature in battle, but who is genuinely trying to do what is right because it is what's right. Back then, Cap was sanctimonious, all he did was bark orders and judge everyone to be unworthy. When you have a character that has lasted as long as Supes or Cap, one that has a history and has achieved iconic status, but suddenly he's "boring", it's not the character that's the problem. It's the writer.
@@SchazmenRassir Dude, case in point.' They can be great people, Kal-El. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good... I have sent them you. My only son.' That's not only an example of just plain fantastic writing in a Superman story, but it comes from one of the most beloved Superhero films ever made. And that same movie NAILED Superman as a likeable and interesting character with an actual internal conflict.
Yeah, I'm definitely putting this as one of my favorite episodes. It's nice knowing that while at times we see versions of Superman handled poorly, we DO get stories like this and All Star Superman that actually GET his character and try to remind us about who he is, what he believes in, and that he will never give up fighting for that dream to live in a world that won't need him, not for any cynical purpose, but for the purpose that the world is at peace...even if it's a dream that may take a VERY long time to achieve. I think now more than ever with everything happening in the world, we need THESE morals more than ever and we need people to remember that it is possible to be a good person and to be better than what cynicism tries to make us believe.
Superman asking "how does it feel to be deconstructed?" is hilarious. It's like he suddenly became self -aware and was really tired of writers making him evil.
Tv tropes calls that leaning on the fourth wall.
Little did Superman know, it was only the beginning.
Superman: Netherrealm Studios, I'm looking at you right now.
@@neoforrester4401 Injustice Supes: "Hey, we're one of the better stories about us being evil jerks. And FYI, our first story ended with YOU defeating me so let's not act like we're part of the problem because we're an exception."
@@dnmstarsi injustice has its good points but I do think that when you make justice lord superman or overman have a better reason, emotional baggage, and appropriate response to taking over the free world. You’re probably doing something not wrong but off for superman.
“It’s not that we lost the ability to believe a man can fly, it’s that we lost the ability to believe a man can think it’s wrong to kill.” - Kyle Kallgren
@Ray Caster Yep, and you can make this same point when people whine about, Batman killing. He has killed people all the time, it's part of the reason he is looked at as a vigilante. Depending on the writer, he either can be seen by the cops as a vigilante trying to do their jobs...and making Gotham worse. By him being the guy to deal the justice, he creates his own villains. Then you have writers, where the cops love having him around to help take down the bad guys. Be it the cops are over worked, or villains with super powers keep coming...and Batman can help stop them. Who cares, if he kills every now and then?
@Ray Caster I agree with that, and I would like to see that too.
@@ENJ4321 Batman's character has evolved since the 40s. He certainly doesn't kill "all the time."
@Ray Caster Well yeah, but Superman has the benefit of being fictional. He always has the power to do the right thing, and he always wants to. There is value in having an idealized character against which we can measure ourselves.
Superman and pretty much all superheroes are not police or soldiers.
Those people have rules and codes that they need to abide by and authority figures to answer to.
Superman doesn’t answer to anyone.
Batman doesn’t answer to anyone.
They’re people who do what they do because it is the right thing to do. And in the case of Superman, he doesn’t kill because he places his faith in the system to take care of things after he fights the bad guys that no one else can.
Saying he should just kill Luthor or the like pretty much states that we cannot be trusted to make our own decisions for ourselves and that his faith is misguided. And that’s just a woefully pessimistic view of mankind, maybe that’s why everyone calls you guys edgelords.
"There are like seventy billion 'What if Superman was a bad guy' stories. _So let's act them out, _*_shall we_* ?"
Not gonna lie, Linkara. That line's pretty badass.
What if superman was apathetic: saitama
What if superman was a slasher:
Brightburn
What if superman was a politician:
Homelander
@@joserobertosolismerlin5527 what if Superman was a bum? Hancock
What if Superman an egomaniac: Plutonian
What if Superman was a Shonen Protagonist: Eventually, Goku.
What if Superman was done more directly by Toriyama than above: Truthfully, Kenta Kurakku/Sourman/Suppaman.
@@joserobertosolismerlin5527 What if Superman was a Despot: Injustice
The line of "...it's not [a] never ending [battle] because it's a cause that will never be won, but because he'll never give up on his dream," lives rent free in my head. That line should be used by more writers that handle Superman.
Although I do believe it is possible to achieve a world utopia, considering we've managed to have a decrease in violence and global crime rates.
But to quote George Carlin aka Mr Conductor once said
"It's called The Dream because you have to be asleep"
@@K1ng1995I love George Carlin and think he was brilliant, but I can't agree with his cynicism. He was right to call out elitism and how people don't acknowledge reality or truth, but saying that we can't have a better world because there are people who aren't interested in making one is myopic and is exactly what those in power want. Dreams can become reality if you fight for them.
@@Double_D__ One of the biggest and easiest mistakes to make is to confuse being cynical for being realistic, believing that a better world is possible is the first step toward there being one.
@Double_D__
I remember watching supernanny as a kid and one of the episodes had a family of 10 kids and the mom wanted 12. Dad had said enough is enough and the older kids were being used as babysitters. When mom was confronted by all this. She starts crying and getting upset saying how it's not fair how no one wants her to have her dream.
Hate to tell you this but according to social media accounts of that family.
Mom and dad got divorced, she met someone else and had more kids with her current husband, and the older kids don't have a relationship with her
So did mom get her dream? Yes but at the cost of her relationships with her oldest children, and her first marriage.
Linkara likes to quote Camelot: "Revenge, the most worthless of causes." But I prefer Marcus Aurelius: "The best revenge is to be a better person than your enemy."
I prefer a quote from Paul Williams "Living well is the best revenge".
IMO revenge isn't worthless if the intent has any kind of meaning to it.
Which one?
That’s where I got that line from.
Kudos to you, Marcus Aurelius.
@@dnmstarsi Revenge is worthwhile if its pursuit is a net gain for you, if it's a stepping stone in your life. It shouldn't be your whole life. At worst, it should be a hobby. Don't let it consume you. Use it to build yourself up into a better person, and stand above your defeated foe as the truly superior man.
This isn't just a deconstruction of Superhero tropes and Superman specifically. This is also a reconstruction. Yes, Superman is immensely powerful, but he's also kind and STAYS kind. Even when it would have been very easy to do so, he never takes a single life during this. Because Superman is a good person. THIS is how you write a superhero right.
It also showed that Superman...has a brain. It’s easy to write him off as a big dumb meathead, but he can actually be pretty clever. After all, his civilian job is an investigative reporter.
@@L1701 Precisely.
It's why, despite the actual reason it exists being very old and pretty dated, the story itself is timeless. Unlike some things I've seen, it stands on its own feet and you don't have to realise it was a response to something to enjoy it. Hell, the 2012 movie shows this story is still just as timeless as it was 2001 when the comic was published.
A "deconstruction of deconstruction", if you will.
What too many writers aren't getting lately is while the struggle to stay good and not cross the line is interesting, but them crossing the line is played out.
Realistic doesn't equal good, Adult doesn't equal edgy, and Realistic doesn't mean everyone is an asshole that's what writers like Mark Millar need to understand.
@Brendan Milburn well honestly if someone filmed Wanted and Kick-ass to match the source material they had not only uberbomb at the box-office but they will have caused a lot of uproar and backlash towards everyone involved.
@Brendan Milburn exactly yes Kingsmen and Kick-Ass are violent but they do have good lessons to teach people.
And also Garth Ennis.
I wonder if he’s projecting.
I find this comment ironic in ways my brain can't process, mainly because it is so true and yet Mark is still one of the people who write superman the best a lot of the time, i.e. linkara on superman for the animals.
"I'm not like those comics, Take me seriously! I am an adult! - Mark Miller's Career in a nutshell
Millar's comics nowadays are much less pessimistic. It took seeing Snyder's Man of Steel to shake him out of his delusions.
@@jakepalermo9181 Actually your right...Early 2000s to Mid 2000s Mark Miller then
Malcolm Neill Ehh, even back then the books never really pretended to be “adult”.
I actually liked some of Millar's stuff
I disagree. Have you read Millar's Superman stuff? I think people don't get Millar. Some of his comics are vile, wretched, and disgusting, but he's criticizing that type of thing in those. He always makes fun of our desire to see shocking and violent things, and let's just admit: we love seeing that type of stuff from time to time.
But what I love about Millar is that there's always elevation. His stories aren't just mindless violence. In Old Man Logan all these horrible things have happened to our favorite heroes, right? The President (i won't reveal his identity here) has brutally murdered Captain America (don't worry, this is not a spoiler), and it's incredibly sad and horrifying. But then Logan uses Cap's shield, and the President is confronted with the ideals he thought he destroyed. Ultimately Logan learns to become a hero again, which is far from cynical. In Ultimates Millar portrays Captain America as an aggressive, out of touch American exceptionalist, but there's a point to it beyond "Hurr durr, isn't this character so silly?". Cap learns throughout that series the negative consequences of his actions. He learns he should value, serve, and protect the whole world, not just USA. He takes the Ultimates out of SHIELD's control and makes it an independent operation. Millar's writing is very cynical, but there's always a point, a catharsis of hope that's made all the more powerful by all the awful shit he shows you.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that
- Martin Luthor King Jr.
DrakeyC Ooh I see what you did there...
Batman: "You don't understand. I don't think you've ever understood."
Jason Todd: "What? What, your moral code just won't allow for that? It's too hard to cross that line?"
Batman: "No!! God Almighty, no! It'd be too damned easy."
DejaVoodooDoll Malcom needed king as much as king needed Malcom
X really deserves a lot more respect on his name,but America labels him “extremist” and won’t give him that.
@@kungfuenthusiasm6592
Luther himself was labeled an extremist at the time.
@@Archon3960 Heaven offend Bruce just snap the Jokers neck and be done with it for all his talk and platitudes Gotham is still a piece of shit he is part of the problem now.
I always loved how wholesome Superman is. He's a character who never needs a "dark" or "gritty" reboot, because he's simply a good man doing good things for good reasons. And that in itself is special, especially in a world as cynical and cold as ours.
Honestly. Batman can be edgy enough for the both of them. Though it can be a but depressing when Batman is written without empathy. I dunno. “Dark” and “gritty” in practice are usually stupid, tbh, since they almost result in reboots that take a random character, and ask, “but what if they killed people?” And there’s almost never any point to it. It’s just edgy because it can be, not because it has anything to say. You can tell poignant stories without turning characters into murderers and the like
so your saying he needs to snap zod's neck.
@@angrybrony ... do a back flip, and save the day!
@@nirast2561 randomly referencing pitch meetings is tight!
@@rakdos36 it was super easy, barely an inconvenience.
... I just love seeing Superman show the world what a gritty Superman would be like. What everyone says they want. And it is -TERRIFYING-.
in hindsight that would only reinforce people's idea of geting ready against potential evil superman from other universes (Overman for example) or other evil kryptonians like zod.
???: I'm not like those comics AM ADULT
Ardo: you know what else consider
Mature wait for by grow some bullocks and......SHUTING YOUR FREAKING MOUTH
it's terrifying and heartbreaking because for just a moment I wasn't sure if they had some contived explanation, if Superman HAD killed them and more then scaring me it made me want to cry
@@sarafontanini7051 That is the brilliance of it. They give the readers what many of them claimed they wanted, for you to realize how terrible that is, then making you happy that Superman is still Superman. For those who say Superman is irrelevant (and people have been saying that for decades), the writer, in a few pages, shows that we are completely missing it. That he is more relevant now than ever before.
@@crazydud3380 ANY man can kill, but it takes a SUPERman to do the opposite of that
"They saw the ugliness of violence as a solution and it frightened them. It frightened me too when I decided to cross that line and do what you do. It's so easy. Anger, vengeance. Luckily, I'm not you. And I never will be."
"Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting"
These two quotes of Supes are my favorite because they represent everything what a superhero should be, Not as murderous, violent people being judge, jury, and executioner, but as people who show that no matter what happens, no matter how much people hurt you, the dream of a peaceful, better tomorrow will come as long as you never stop fighting and believing in that dream happening
That is a childs fantasy there are people that just want to watch the world burn what do u do with them?
The 4th Wall Kid Unfortunately, the problem with dreams is that you have to wake up to reality eventually.
I can appreciate Linkara’s sentiments in this review, but I don’t think (at least based on my own experiences) that people are as kind and good natured at their core as he makes them out to be. With some rare exceptions, they’re content to let the world stay how it is so long as it doesn’t directly affect their lives, their families or their happiness . And when they do respond to and resolve crises, they usually go back to their old habits once it’s resolved, like it never happened.
Remember, most of us can moralize, call things good or evil, right or wrong because we live in a part of the world where our basic needs are provided for and we’re relatively secure (the current pandemic notwithstanding).
But not everyone enjoys these luxuries. For some, living in this world means doing questionable things in order to survive. They don’t know anything different, so it’s second nature, a grisly fact of life.
When you’ve lived in the dark for so long, it’s hard to recognize or trust the light when you see it.
@@mattjones6578 man, you and Christian just completely missed the point and purpose of dreams and aspirational heroic fiction, didn't you? The whole point of superheroes and the values they have is having role models of what to aim for and be a better individual actor in the world. Ever hear the phrase "be the change you want to see in the world?" Superheroes are supposed to be stylized examples of the people living that credos. Just because as flawwed human beings we frequently come up short and don't fix every problem on the first try is not a valid argument for giving up completely on trying to be better people and steer others in that direction as well. And that's to say nothing of how silly it is to try to impose realism on an inherently unrealistic genre like superheroes.
To borrow a Batman quote from Grant Morrison's JLA Confidential run:
"These 'no nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in complex world full of jet-powered apes and time travel."
@@dmore454 I've got one as well.
“Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay." --Gandalf The Grey.
@@mattjones6578 “You have given them an ideal to aspire to, embodied their highest aspirations.
They will race, and stumble, and fall and crawl....and curse.... But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time you will help them accomplish wonders.”
If there are people who want to watch the world burn, Superman can help them find a world that needs fire. Or he can get them psychiatric help to guide them to a better way. Or he can throw them in a cell and let them howl through the bars for the rest of their lives. Or he can arrest them and the justice system can finally nut up and send Joker to the electric chair.
Me, as a hormonal, edgy teenager: Pfft, Superman is so lame! Now the Punisher, that’s a real hero.
Me, right now: God I wish Superman was real so he could hug me for like, a half hour.
Best thing is that if Superman had the time he’d probably do it.
I really like that comic of Punisher ripping a sticker of his logo off a cop car tells the officers that if they want a role model they should look at Captain America. I'm actually co writing a fanfic where Punisher tells Riverdale Southside Serpents Fangs and Sweet Pea that if they want role models they should look at Captain America and Falcon
@@K1ng1995 I heard about the incident, about the only time I’ve heard The Punisher being interesting
Sadly a bunch of people never seemed to grown out of that edgy teen phase as several people write him off as “boring”.
@@SerenityM16 I have to disagree punisher is no role model but the Garth Ennis run of punisher is an incredible read
"That's my deconstruction of superheroes. People can be and are, kind. So why wouldn't someone with incredible abilities be kind too?"
That line is living in my head ever since I first watched this review. Thank you Lewis.
It's definitely something that stays in my mind when writing.
we have gone so far to the point that "what if superheroes were good" is radical 🤔
Because it's Easier & more Realistic for People to do things in their own self-interest; and use their abilities for their own self-serving agendas;
Seriously; Because of all the mess going on in the world; IT'S EASY TO BECOME JADED & SEE THE WORST IN PEOPLE!!
@spiderjerusalem4009 I often feel that we're reaching the point where "people can be good, and are." seems naively optimistic.
I think so too. We haven't stopped believing that someone can fly, but that someone with great power would be kind. I think if anyone looks at characters like homelander and says "That's what someone would really do with all that power." That it says more about themselves than what they realise.
Stories like this are proof that maybe we DO still need heroes like Superman: People who are genuinely kind and decent and use their abilities and skills to do the right thing. Even when people thought he might be wrong, even when they pleaded with him not to, Superman has always kept on trying to do the right thing, no matter how heavily it weighs on him to do so, because that's who he is.
@DejaVoodooDoll And maybe people would not be afraid of arresting said "refugees" when they form child rape gangs, because people would start calling them racist or xenophobic.
@strontiumXnitrate
Nah that's just the current run. Comics have kinda gone to shit lately.
That's one of the reasons I like Kingdom come so much. Perfect deconstruction of the 90's action hero trend, explained how the heroes we fallow are a reflection of the society that creates them, and demonstrated why it's important to have at least one beacon of virtue we can look up to, even if that infallibility is based on a lie.
Only thing preventing that comic from being my absolute favorite is rising stars.
Just remember:
Compassion is not weakness. And violence is not strength.
Words to live by.
*Just remember* Funny, Superman and the rest of the DC heroes have been using violences to solved any problems. So it is hypocrite on Superman on criticize The Elite when he is not so different from them.
@@nexusgiga Violence it still violence, so Superman has not right to criticize. The Elite. Also, The Elite were not trying to control the world, they were killing other villains and nothing more.
@@nexusgiga And again, The Elite weren't trying to conquer Earth.
I did watched Superman vs The Elite Animated Movie, and Linkara's video about the comic version, and in neither of them show The Elite trying to conquer Earth.
@@nexusgiga Oh sure! I'm pretty sure he could stop Doosmday and Darkseid with a hug. *sarcasm*
“Damn kids and their Fortnites.” That made me laugh a little too much.
Harrison Bainbridge
And yet it’s very accurate.
Same. Then again my nephew loves Fortnite and his dad insisted I get the damn game even though I helped him win a game for the first time despite being coached.
We’re old
To me, there’s two stories that show who Superman is best. This one and All Star Superman. Stories that show that ultimately, Superman at his core is someone who truly loves the world and it’s inhabitants, and because of that he doesn’t want to force his way on everyone, but instead to show the way. There’s a reason he’s the “Man of Tomorrow”.
And while anger is Easy. Hate is Easy. Pain is easy. It’s simple to want an eye for an eye, it’s simple to want revenge. It’s an ingrained nature of human being from years.
It’s also easy to focus on the negative especially when the negative is what we most commonly see. “Plane successfully lands” isn’t a story, but “Plane crashes” is. And when we focus on the negative and are inundated with story upon story of the negative, it’s easy to label the world as broken. But it doesn’t tell the whole story.
Are there things that suck? Yes. But for as many people who exploit, who demean, who rule over others? There are also people trying to go against them, to improve the world, to bring food and medicine to those who need it, to try and fix the issues of the environment, to try and fight for people’s rights.
Progress isn’t fast, but we’re improving. It’s not easy, it’s not fast, it’s not glorious. And it’s always tempting to try and burn it all down, to force the way on the world to say “this is the way now”.
But with people as strong as Superman, what happens when they decide that way isn’t the way? Who’s to say they won’t just get bored of that way and burn it down to force a new way.
But that’s why Superman is a hero. Because he knows he has all the power to burn it down, but instead chooses to try and show the way. We can put faith in Superman, because Superman has the faith in us to progress.
Very well said.
Excellent piece
All of this.
Check out Superman up in the sky.
Superman: Man of Tomorrow is also a fantastic Superman movie.
Given how crazy times are now. This was a review and topic that reminds us compassion and kindness outweighs bitterness and anger.
@@satireknight It can be our reality. Never stop fighting folks.
satireknight you never stop fighting for the dream even in reality
@@satireknight Better than repaying with absolute hatred. While we sometimes must harden our hearts and even fight, it should be as a last resort as going straight to anger and hatred perpetuates the cycle of revenge. Seeking peaceful solutions first hand has a better chance of ending the issue.
Proud to be a comic book fan right now.
Stay loyal to the Dream, Brethren.
You know there used to be a big push for Superman vs Goku. But I kind of want to see Superman hanging out with Goku in some contrived tournament arc. See the two get in a debate over their fighting philosophies.
MysteriousTomJenkins Goku is selfish but has a heart so I could see your story work or they could use the og American dub goku for simplistic reasons
This is why I love it when fanart actually portrays the two being best buds (including ones where they fuse), and why I wasn’t outraged at those Death Battle fights.
Seeing the two together would be great, especially since Goku is known for his more selfish tendencies just for a good fight. Supes could try to instill something in him and maybe could be a character deconstruction of Goku to possibly justify that “Goku is not a hero” mindset.
Pio Nepomuceno
Strangely enough, I was upset about the death battle fight for the same reason you were not. Not because Goku didn't win, but because out of all the fights on Death Battle, it was one of the ones most deserving of a draw. Goku as an adult has tended to avoid killing people who he thinks they may make good future opponents or are redeemable, and has never killed someone decidedly good, even by accident. Meanwhile Superman rarely kills and often times only when the threat is cataclysmic or apocalyptic in nature, and even then only if he can't find some other way. Following this logic and the fact that neither of the characters would risk destroying the Earth and thus push the other to their kill threshold, their fights should have been fought to a standstill and ended with them walking away. More than any other hero pairing, they seem to be the two I see as most likely to deny Death Battle their namesake.
SovereignAure I can see what your talking about and I agree but honestly I feel they would be a little unsatisfying to anyone completely hyped for that match up back in the day
@@skyslasher2297 That and it literally breaks the basic rules. 90% of the matches would end that way if it was an option. Removing the restrictions on killing is literally rule 1 of Death Battle.
"People want someone to FIX IT."
Oh my God, THIS is where Frank Miller got the name "The Fixer"...
I love the Elite crying "HEY! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!" when it looks like Superman uses their own methods against them. Yeah... You know what's right and wrong. At least The Joker gets a sick laugh if he can manage to push Batman into murderous rage, but you guys? You're just making excuses to be assholes.
Now I want to see Superman vs the Fixer.
Joker does deserve to die though, but DC won't let him.
@@iswitchedsidesforthiscatI blame the cops and other Arkham patients for not killing him before he can escape. I’m sick of people blaming Batman.
@@ryanangelastro504 Joker is no different from Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Ramirez in terms of means and goals, meaning him escaping is just simply unrealistic considering what happened to those 2.
@@iswitchedsidesforthiscat I forgot to mention one more person or people to blame: the writers.
When Ozymandias mocked comic book heroics, it worked because his plan actually worked, and because superheroes actually failed. These guys though...they're just posing.
His Heroes were also just dudes who had gadgets and knew karate outside of the Glowing Neon God that really didnt care about anything.
But his plan didn’t really work. It was just a temporary fix.
@@Dave175
In the end the crazy-ass dude with a black and white mask had a last laugh.
I only know the comic/film Watchmen, not the weird stuff DC is pulling with Doomsday clock, so I don't know if Ozy's plan succeeded long-term or not.
@@davidmelon9409 well kinda makes sense ozymandias critices comic books in a film. in the comic book he criticized "pulp book" villains.
media criticizing different media kinda gets a pass.
I find it funny that not only did the animated movie come out only a year before Man of Steel, but Zack Snyder when defending his movies, unknowingly quoted Manchester Black with "you're living in a dream world".
@laz kar So, Snyder is a AU version of MB (only like Keanu Reeves, is miscast)
@laz kar Snyder is Manchester Black, manifested into the real world and enacting his revenge on Superman by desecrating the character. Starting with "Man Of Steel" and "BvS".
@@thoomolong This makes way too much sense.
Wonder what Bats did to piss him off then with the whole "raped in prison" thing?
laz kar I actually trust Manchester Black, though I know it’s not saying much
ToqKaizogou
Except in Man of Steel, Clark saved people because he wanted to, cared about protecting the world, didn’t cause damage out of some reckless glee and only killed as a last resort.
I’m not a fan of BvS, but Man of Steel wasn’t as grim dark as some make it out to be.
This makes me think back to the ending of "The Dark Knight", and why I like it over many other Batman endings. Joker set up a near perfect death trap, with two boats rigged to blow if the people on one decide to kill the others, one with civilians, the other inmates. And both ships decided "No". Ultimately, no one wanted to pull the trigger, noting the minutes that passed where neither group was willing to push the button, much to Joker's annoyance. Then you have Batman not killing Joker or Dent, and taking blame for the people Dent killed, in order for hope of incorruptable "White Knight" in him to remain. Batman was willing to have his name tarnished and ruined, just to keep hope alive. To me, a hero is someone who is willing to sacrifice themselves, and not others, despite their alignment. Seriously, look at My Hero Academia for *several* examples of this! Those guys can get mangled, depowered, and dragged through mud all day, and they would still say, "If I can save one person, just one, its all worth it!" Come to think of it, that might be that franchise is so popular right now. Heh, now I wonder what a meeting between Eraserhead and Batman would be like. They would probably try to see who has the more annoying batch of friends.
Well, he did kill Dent, but 1. He was about to murder a child, and 2. It look accidental. Like he tackled him and didn't see the edge until it was too late.
he absolutely merc'd dent though, moral high ground lost
@@christiancrusader9374 Plus as Linkara once noted in a video, while there are many scenarios where a hero who normally does not kill breaks that rule, it is often done through circumstances that are contrived and constructed to lead to that and that they ultimately do not change really anything.
A meeting between batman and eraser would be
Eraserhead losing a glaring match
Being made fun of because of adoptions
And bats showing how much of a softy he is when he meets eri
Nah, knowing Batman and Eraserhead, they would probably both get angsty and annoyed at each other and everything around them.
Well as much as people complain about superman being boring. Despite the fact that steven universe, Aang, almight and might guy are very much loved. Shows me that characters that inspire against unwonted death and destruction and look for peaceful resolves will always be in the hearts of many and so will superman.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins I agree that is a big issue. Plus the comics and alot of media involving superman not showing more Clark's humanity and inspiring nature. Just mostly trying to get him to the action quick. I think if they did that more he would be more understood.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins I blame that small monologue in kill bill for doing that superman is God thing. It's why they cant choose between one or the other. Along with peoples need to make something dark if it's too wholesome. I love that episode and yes that is a great example of just being human. Superman shines the most when he's giving super people tours on earth. Or introducing others to new food and things to try. He just gets really dorkly passionate about it and its fun.
@@ladyaema The funny thing about that monologue in Kill Bill 2? _It is told from the perspective of Bill aka the Snake Charmer, the villain._ Thus, this view of Superman is held by someone who could be considered that world's version of *Lex Luthor.* Of course he would see Superman in that light. That's how Bill saw the world, but it does not make him right.
@@kelvinphillips7140 I agree. But just like fight club no one took the actual message and took everything at face value. Thus why we have superman is jesus.
@@ladyaema Unfortunately too true.
You know, when I saw the ugly Superman it made me think back to your Superman: At Earth’s End review. “This is not Superman! Superman is kind and decent. Superman saved the world from the anti-god Megedon. Superman beat Solaris the tyrant sun and Brainiac and yes even Hitler in the golden age. Superman always followed his principles even when the world told him not to. Superman has sacrificed is life for the sake of others both in original continuity and in his excellent all-star series.”
Linkara when I first found you I was a Superman hater like many others, but you changed my mind. You showed me that I was wrong and that’s okay. Just part of growing up. Thank you for making Superman one of my favorite heroes again.
one of my personal favorite reviews and not just for the quotes
Correction: Humankind saved Superman from Maggedon, and that's why is one of the best Superman stories printed, even if it was in a JLA book.
any man can take a life, any man can kill
it takes a SUPER man to save one.
True power is not about being big enough to push people around, it’s being big enough not to.
I love the ironic echo with Superman's "lobotomy" on Black.
Black himself had said that his team's actions were about "removing the 'cancers' that fester in us"...
What is the act of someone abusing their powers if not a cancer of someone's morality?
and of course Black's reaction can be seen as him being angry that Superman took his power from him. AT the end of the day, Black wasn't a hero. He was a bully and a monster who only wanted to make himself feel better about his shitty life. Without his power, he's nobody, he can't do anything about it.
He can grandstand about 'reality' all he wants, but at the endd of the day the reality was that Black didn't give a shit about other people and everyone was glad to be rid of him.
@@sarafontanini7051 And even then, Superman didn't take away Black's power permanently, an expression of humility and a strong moral backbone. He could have ensured Manchester Black could never perform superhuman terror again, and there's a decent argument it's a good compromise between ending the threat of villains permanently and not killing them. But it's not Superman's place to decide who has powers and who doesn't, he's not a god, he's not a lawgiver, he's a man who happens to have incredible powers. And especially in a comic-book universe, where do you draw the line on depriving people of powers? The same argument that would endorse permanently lobotomizing Black could potentially apply to depriving Lex Luthor of his incredible intellect. But most people would consider that wrong, even though they're arguably both just modifying someone's brain to remove an ability used to harm others.
I may be able to explain the Men in Black stuff.
People mostly knows the movie, but the Comic book it's from is very different and got that "edgy" shit you could have found in other 90's comic, were our "heroes" kills witnesses and act like harboiled cop.
Late, but WTF?
@@bthsr7113 To elaborate, in the comics the Men in Black were waaaay more amoral and did what they did as a means of keeping the world under their control rather than truly protecting it. Also in the comics it wasn't just aliens but zombies, ghosts, demons, etc. were kicking about too.
Well they do have that mine wipe pen nowadays to deal with witnesses
I felt that bit was to show how the Elite handles it when gov't officials do wrong with criminal black ops. This was a common occurrence in the Authority/Wildstorm universe that every awful thing and supervillain originated from a gov't agency. The Elite didn't arrest them like a typical superhero would, they executed them and murder their families as a warning to the next organization.
There was a Men In Black comic?
Editor: “We have to convince fans of The Authority to read this book. But how?”
Artist: (looks up from pile of early 2000s comics) This might sound crazy, but what if we make the cover really bad? Dingy colors, too many lines, that sort of thing.
Editor: . . . BRILLIANT!
the worst part is that it workes
Ian R. Nava Huber The best part is that the story was top quality
It‘s the best meaning to the phrase “never judge a book by its cover”.
They came in for the dark and gritty crap, they hopefully came out having learned a lesson
@@RobinDJoker I still think the authority is better than any canon Superman run.
the reveal of superman man just after he "killed" the elites has to be one of the biggest "oh shit" moments in comics. this is THE superman, the original that everyone knows from their childhood. and here he is, just having slaughtered three meta humans in less than 30 seconds. the big blue boy scout just obliterated them like they were nothing. he is pissed off and sick of these assholes traipsing around being all high and mighty about how they are better than everyone else. and in less than a minute he gave them a damn good hiding, shattering their delusions of grandeur and showing them that yes, he can kill but fuck you, he's better than that and here he is, at the end of his tether showing these jerks what its like when a super powered being slaughters them like they slaughtered so many others. he is tired of so many trigger happy dickheads going "why don't you just kill them" who don't seem to think about the consequences of ending someones life. he wants to lead by example, he doesn't believe that the ends justify the means and is willing to damn well try to negotiate with a situation that he could end with a punch BECAUSE A NEVER ENDING STREAM OF VIOLENCE IS NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION.
Thank you, sir. This is my favorite comic, and I come back to it every so often when I need a reminder that it's important not just to do the right thing, but to do it the right way.
Well said sir.
Superman vs the Elite is a strong indicator that Superman could also singlehandedly defeat the Avengers. He just needs to be pissed, have a point to prove, and use all, or most of his powers, concurrently. Not to be the bad guy's punching bag, but instead make them his bitch. And, if you don't want Superman to be seen as a joke, the Man of Steel needs to once and for all put the Dark Knight in his place, hard and fast, and settle the BS that Batman can defeat Kal, even if it's thought only because Superman 'let's' him.
The movie version is even more chilling, since Superman's voice actor in that is also the voice of Sephiroth.
You know, something about Manchester Black, as well as what you said about Millar's run on the Authority just being the *image* of maturity instead of actually being mature made me realise something. Manchester Black's appearance evokes a Punk Rock aesthetic, which is heavily tied to the political movement of anarchism (what Allen Moore follows, funnily enough), about fighting against the state & other forms of authority for abusing their power via their control of the monopoly of violence. Yet that's exactly what Black & The Elite do. They don't protect people from bullies, they *are* the bullies. They just evoke the image of fighting against "the man" without actually understanding what that entails.
in my opinion the evocation of Punk and anarchist is good because its something of a mistake some anarchists make and im not knocking down anarchism here im an anarchist and quite a passionate one at that. Its just Black's problem is really that he is angry and thats good progress as much as we like to paint a picture of it now has always been messy, angry, and just a little spiteful. It was fought for by people with their blood sweat and tears. many gave their lives in a way we dont think about. But his problem is that his anger has no control and he falls into the trap essentially being as authoritarian as those he wants to fight its a trap anarchists have to be careful about.
that line "Might makes right" is very much not anarchist thing or thinking if anything its actually what we fight against (tho linkaras line is very ehhhhhh in response) the idea that those with power should use it is um shall we say not something that many of us like most of us tend to actually hate the idea of nations lead by a person and tend either be decentralized or nations lead by councils. this sort of "if you have the power you should use it" is kinda of an ugly portrayal of anarchism and is more someone who is just angry using it as a weapon.
and yeah anarchism can be a weapon against oppression but if all you want it violence then no anarchism is not your ally. Anarchism wants an end to such oppression and hierarchy using hierarchy to justify a fight against opression is more or less revealing the kind of person Black is.
And he has legitimate points High Roadism is very much unpleasant and can come across as smug and ignorant by those that suffer (Ive more than dealt with it to have a less than stellar reaction with those that obsess over taking the high road) The High road is important but sometimes you do have to tackle people down into the mud. You should be better but sometimes thats not enough and if anything is more harmful. The high Road should be a goal but not a sacrosanct idea.
People like black are right in a sense but in a way hes not because he shows how much he doesn't actually care about the ideas he espouses if anything he just uses it as a crutch.
Did Linkara subtlety insult Image Comics?
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 Exactly. He sees the vague idea of rebellion & not the reason behind it. I can't see Black supporting ideas like mutual aid or self-managed workplaces.
Also, I'm an anarchist myself. Nice to see another down here.
@@carloszapata847 I wouldn't say that.
He wasn't subtle at all.
@@Hawkatana Yeah, he's been open about his disdain for Image comics since the start of AT4W. How is that subtle?
Another SF-Debris review that is relevant is Justice League: A Better World.
In part one he addresses the question "why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker?"
In part two, he answers it. Brutally, and in total clarity.
@@Wraithfighter Yeah I always wondered about that too. I think a scenario where perhaps the Joker has escaped after being put on death row but Bats catches him but realizes he's as good as killing him if he turns him in, would be an interesting idea.
But then, if he saved those villains, they'd just break outta Arkham/Blackgate next issue and kill a bunch more people.
@@Wraithfighter That would be an interesting story.
@@1987palerider Is that on Batman? Is it his job to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner in addition to Vigilante/Deputy?
Fair, but its not on him to do police work either. He chose to take on that responsibility. You'd need a whole-ass rewrite of the Batman mythos more than likely
Super-Heroes are not Judge, Jury and Executioners, they are individuals with extraordinary skills/abilities that can subdue threats that normal Law Enforcement or the Military cannot (or at least can't without significant lives lost first). If you ignore the meta reason for why Villains keep coming back (popularity, sales, franchise iconography), the real reason in universe for the status quo and revolving door super prisons is the justice system that keeps shoving the Joker into an asylum instead of giving him the death penalty. If a villain has been subdued and contained but is such a huge threat he can't be allowed to live, don't ask why Superman didn't kill the threat on the spot but ask why the government doesn't do it themselves now that they have it in their custody. Once a Hero has beaten the villain to the point that Police/Soldiers can safely take over, it is no longer the Hero's responsibility to decide what is done with them next.
The death penalty should be a last resort. Rehabilitation should be the primary focus. Sure, some villains like the Joker may never be rehabilitated, leaving the DP as the only recourse left, but I think that there should be another path. Something like what Prof. X tried to do: Show metahumans how to use their abilities for good, and teach them why they should. In world chock full of mind readers and magicians, the electric chair shouldn't be the only solution for crazy.
I'd love a story that explored that.
Make an in universe reason why these big name villains keep getting light convictions in weak prisons. Have a group of rich and powerful individuals behind the scenes bending the rules to keep the bad guys out causing problems.
There are people who must benefit in some way to all the super fights and destruction that goes on, make a story about that. Think about it, only the big named killers would get this privilege. It'd actually become like a ranking system. If you're a no name criminal you get the normal treatment, but a dangerous psycho like joker gets protection so he can fuck things up even more.
@@SomeRandomJackAss Oh sure it would be a last resort and not used if there is a chance for rehabilitation. But I think it's safe to say someone like the Joker is beyond rehabilitation at this point with his repeated offences and body count over the years. The main point is it is neither Superman's or Batman's responsibility to decide that once they managed to safely capture the villain. Only times where they would be expected to kill were if there was no other way to stop them like what happened with Doomsday.
Arkus and SomeRandomJackAss (excellent username, btw) - you're both right.
@@juniorjunior5884 The Suicide Squad was one example of what you're talking about: The government takes imprisoned supervillains and puts them to work as disposable black op squads. If they survive enough missions, they get a pardon and are back on the streets.
The thing that strikes me about this comic is that in the bedroom scene Lois claims that Clark seeked the Elite out, but I don't think that's true per se. I mean before the big confrontation, Superman had three encounters with the Elite:
1) Libya, where the Elite get there before Superman and kill/maim everyone and then leave.
2) Tokyo, where they "Accidentally" knock Superman out so they can slaughter the Japanese Supervillains while he watches watches helplessly.
3) The MIB fight, where Superman takes out the enemy without killing, the Elite show up, announce they are gonna murder the MIB and their families anyway, which provokes Superman to hit hat, which the Elite are recording with cameras they brought with them.
Now as Ian Flemming once said "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action). The Elite have a teleporter capable of reaching at least Io, and they have the world wired with their cameras, they deliberately set up these three encounters in order to rile Superman up, make him look foolish, and give themselves just cause to kill him when he finally had enough of their crap and stood up to them.
And why? Because the Elite are a bunch of bullies and they wanted to demonstrate to the world that the could take down anyone that defied them, and they picked Superman because he's the number one hero and because his world view directly opposes theirs. What they didn't realize that just because the strongest guy on the planet doesn't kill doesn't make him stop being the strongest guy on the planet. And like any bully, Manchester Black was reduced to blubbering tears and tantrum throwing when it seemed like Superman was really going to kill him, when it seemed like his life really was on jeopardy (And how quickly Black went back to ranting he'll get his revenge when he realized Superman was never going to kill him).
TL: DR: The Elite are crap, and Superman is awesome. Welcome to my Ted Talk.
Of course Losi doesn't know the full story and never saw directly what the Elite do, and she's also speaking froma place of fear for her husband's life.
"I AM AN ADULT!!! TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!!!" Is probably Garth Ennis's moto when he is not writing the Punnisher (and sometimes when he).
Ennis' stuff is miles away from Mark Millar., but it's easier to make "look at that edgy comic" jokes instead of taking a serious look at his work.
@@kompuglobalhypermega
On one hand he made a comic about the Spanish Civil War, an interesting time period for me.
On the other hand he turned the annunciation of Jesus into a rape by Gabriel during his Hellblazer run (And since the Jesus comic was cancelled, this probably remains canon in the DC universe). I know this was on the 1990s, back when he was still a young man looking for attention, I just feel he never really grew out of that stage.
@@carloszapata847
He never grew up from his "religion hating" phase. Ennis is a hardcore atheist and sees religion as a bull shit made by people to justify their assholery.
However, in his defence. He grew up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. It's a miracle that he is just the way he is and not worse.
@@kompuglobalhypermega
I meant he never grew out of his making over the top gross and disgusting edgelord things in a desperate attempt to get attention. This has not stopped him from becoming a better writer over thee years, as Preacher and many of Punisher stories (where the quality is usually inversely proportional to the amount of superheroes) show.
He however, has by his own admission, tried to sabotage the continuity of any work on a superhero universe because of his dislike over them. He has his right to hold his opinion, but it surprises me how they kept trusting him with superheroes (like in The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe). In many cases, like in Thor Vikings, other writers just chose to pretend those stories never happened.
As for the Hellblazer thing, well at least not many people remember the Fear and Loathing storyline except for the readers of Lucifer who wonder how did Gabriel lost his wings and whomever did the research for the Constantine movie starting Keanu Reeves (who chose to ignore that part).
On an extra note, when a story has a supreme god on it, I always see him as a reflection of the writer or an aspect of him, since they have a similar control over the world and the fate of it, but the characters have a life of their own (a writer may refrain from having someone do something "out of character"). How is God in Preacher? Desperate for attention. I think he know this is who he is and just embraced it.
Ennis wrote a children's book called Erf....
15:06 A magic hat? Where he purchased that?!
@@noahthompson2912 So they were on the Den Liner?
It's magic. I don't have to explain it.
eBay.
Like the book from Silent Hill
@@Grim_Sister considering you can purchase working counterfeit magic rings in the dc universe(go read seven soldiers zatanna for details) that is entirely possible.
13:15 "We do not believe in nations" says the guy named Manchester wearing a British Flag as a fashion statement.
Fun fact: That was only a shirt in later adaptations like the movie. That's actually a tattoo in this version
@@RobinDJoker I am aware. "wear" applies to tattoos...
Merriam Webster: "to bear or _have on_ the person"
There's not any distinction that it has to be removable.
I mean, historically speaking, that is a pretty British thing to say. Back in the day, the world was either “Britain” or “Free Real Estate”
I bet that was deliberate to show Manchester Black off as a hypocrite, decrying our sociopolitical structures while defining himself by either them directly or by railing against them as a performance.
I think that’s deliberate, the Elite use the image of rebellion and rejection of authority, when in their attempts to define themselves in opposition to nations and governments simply define themselves using nations and laws via their performative defiance.
I did like in the movie how it expanded a little more on the Elite and had them working and getting along with Superman at first. It showed that they were trying to be heroes and could have been great ones and that the problem wasn't that they were just evil but rather that they were extremists. Their views had some merit to them, thus why it was important for Superman to have an actual counter to argue for his own side. Both he and the audience can't just brush them off as villains because, well, they're not. They're not just trying to make excuses so that they can kill because it's fun or trying to make a cover while they're secretly robbing banks or trying to take over the world. They truly believe that their more extreme and morally questionable methods are what the world needs, thus why it troubles Superman for so long.
And Supergirl's adaptation was...disappointing, even if it tried some different stuff, like with Manchester Black never getting telepathy or telekinesis, just having a link with MArtian Manhunter because of some events and the Elite trimmed down to Menagerie and the Hat, the 3rd guy just cut out.
The idea of anti heroes and such was there, certainly, but it ends...pretty awkwardly and is more about giving depth to J'onn, which is helpful in a way, especially as he has more of an arc in season 5 with his brother and all
-"im not like other Comics, said Other Comics" is the least self-aware attempt at self-awareness that writers love doing & is hilarious for the same wrong reasons every time
-but yeah this is my prime Superman "see? this is what I mean" example here, he's the nicest dude possibly because even with all his powers, is still a hard thing to not be a dick to people being a dick to others
>because even with all his powers, is still a hard thing to not be a dick to people being a dick to others
Superman is the prime example of what I'm going to call "strength of the fettered". A classic anti-hero schick is to assert that principles and ethics are a burden to be discarded. That only the truly unfettered will survive. Superman does not agree. Superman holds his principles as his true test of strength
@@TARINunit9 Oh I like that name for it. Just a heads up, I'm likely to borrow that in the future :P
One of my favorite came out.. roughly in the same time period? It was a big year for Extra Special Number Issue of Superman Titles. I think there was a big event around it. Anyways. I got this one and the one I'm referencing at my work's newsstand.
Superman got teleported to an alien world because they saw news broadcasts of Superman, and the aliens are asking for help against the tyrants who took over their planet. Superman comments he'd have preferred being asked, but.. he's not going to abandon them, then he looks outside, comments 'Red Sun..' then just says nevermind and goes to help. The longer the fight goes, the worse he's doing, and when the alien who asked for his help says he should be a LOT stronger than this, easily able to stop the bad guys, Superman admits he's losing his powers under a red sun.
The alien gets panicky and guilty, saying 'What? If we knew this we wouldn't have asked you for help! Why didn't you tell us?!'
Superman: 'Because you needed help.'
And that.. and this issue, and some of Grant Morrison's JLA, definitely sealed Superman in as my favorite DC character. Even above the Flash. These issues.. GET Superman. It was never a question of being Super. It was a question of them needing help. THAT is Superman. Even if he ISN'T in a World of Cardboard, Superman is going to help.
Act of God can go fuck itself.
The comic equivalent of "I'm not like other girls?"
I defend that line since it's usually shown (at least in that issue of the Authority) that there is no status que, consequences matter. Jack Hawksmore said it after the team brutally slaughtered the government of an oppressive third-world nation; which the US President rightly calls him out on. Sadly, the comic treats the Authority's actions as entirely correct and that anyone who opposes the team as just part of the corrupt global elite.
This situation was handled so much better in _Superman: Earth One_ where in book two, Sups actually takes down an African dictator (all Clark did was take away the military's guns and the citizenry easily overtook them since they had no local support). The UN is so aghast at his action and now worried over the alien toppling their governments that when General Zod shows up in book three, they cut him a blank check to kill Superman, oblivious to the fact that he'll destroy the Earth when he's done and would have if Lex Luthor hadn't sacrificed himself.
Ever since College people have tried sway my opinion of Superman as a very relevant hero; books like this are the counter of that! Superman is one of us; yes he was born on Krypton but he didn't grow up there; he grew up here with our morals, our values and more importantly our COMPASSION. He has faced down every threat both big and small and he has struggled with both his trials and morality; that makes him human; his strength to resist the urge to let go of all his parents, wife and friends have instilled on him; that is a very human traits! COMPASSION to me is Superman's greatest superpower
God, this is why Superman is my favorite DC hero. A girl I dated once had a friend who always trashed Superman whenever I brought him up. She'd talk about all his "unrelatability," how he's a god who looks down on humanity because he's perfect and overpowered. Whenever I'd try to explain that his stories aren't necessarily about the fights, but more what they mean as a whole, she'd respond with, "I just think he's a bad character."
What's unrelatable about a dorky english major from Kansas just trying to do the best he can?
What's unrelatable about feeling overworked with the weight of the world on your shoulders?
What's unrelatable about being scared that you'll fail and what that failure will mean in the long run?
I personally don't read Superman comics for the fights, I read them for the man they're about.
That girl's name wouldn't happen to be Alexis Luthor, would it?
Kill Bill 2 sucks
I actually like the movie version better; Manchester's personality was more complicated and the Elite's philosophy was slightly more complex.
agreed. in fact the movie actually gives manchester a good point when atomic skull goes on a rampage mid-film
But in the comic the Elite still qualify as flawed "anti-heroes" who clash with the traditional morality of Superman. In the movie is obvious they planned the confrontation with Superman from the start. Maybe because by then, in the comics Manchester Black had become an absolute villain.
I never got the "Superman is a meathead" stuff. He's the scion of a scientifically advanced species whose toasters would probably require a contemporary Earth engineering degree to plug in, and his father is an intellectual of said species. His erudition may be limited to said relative Earth, but his prowess is not. He could easily be written as being smarter than even smart humans if he wanted to be, but instead became a reporter, which I believe would include some degree in the humanities, instead of physical sciences. Makes the character a little easier to write to.
It's weird in characterization, but even the best tend to make it more like he has great wisdom, not great intelligence, since he usually isn't about engineering or the sciences in general, but being able to outwit super geniuses like Lex Luthor or super computers like Brainiac
Back in the Gold and Silver age there was more Superman-as-scientist stuff, hence why Lex Luthor used to be a mad scientist.
Also, doesn't he cure cancer or something in All-Star Superman? Another reason to love that book.
@@ToHoldNothing not so much when you really think about it. Of course Clark went to college to understand people better. Its his dream after all, to really walk in the shoes of and know the stories of all the peoples of the world. He's a reporter for that same reason, sure it allows him to be there when things go bad so that he can become Superman, but its also a free pass to learn all he can about people and thus the inhabitants of the planet that he loves most of all.
Sure, he could also be amazing at science and technology, but it isn't exactly weird either that he chose to be a person that basically studies other people for a living. I think the only jobs he could have got that would be more on the nose might be therapist or anthropologist.
Because many confuse being good as being not really intelligent
This was explained by Batman in The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Basically, this was done to justify Batman's victory over him in a philosophical way.
This comic is one of the best representations of who Superman is, why he does what he does, and how Superman will always be my favorite superhero of all time.
I think the best is actually from the third crisis animated film. Superman's reaction to hearing the only way to kill the Anti-Monitor and save billions of lives involves taking in more solar energy than he can handle and will kill him; "I call that a bargain"
This had to be a unique case where the comic is both dated and timeless. The reason it exists is very dated but the message itself is timeless. One should only kill if there is no alternative and an alternative should always be the first priority.
Indeed. :)
And the animated adaptation in particular proves it as timeless.
LaughingStockMedia did a great speech about Superman in his "Jiren is Boring" video in respond to all the people who compared Jiren to Superman
dunkanbulk14 I will check it out. Thank-You.
Lol, who compares Jiren to Superman? Jiren is more like Shishio Makoto from Rurouni Kenshin except really shallow and flat
@@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780 Supes and Jiren are totally the same- both are superheroes, both are aliens, both are really strong, and they both wear red. Practically the same.
@@Future_Vantas Yeah, humans are the same as dolphins too, there's like... 2% of genetic difference in the DNA ;)
@@Future_Vantas In the manga he is first presented more as a person that cares for being a hero. Then the tournament begins and he becomes just another "might makes right" dude. A shame.
I've wrestled with pessimism my entire life. I saw this review not long after I had to have the police called on me to talk me out of committing suicide. Things weren't going well, what with college not helping me get out of working dead end jobs, my writing career not going anywhere, my father passing away, and all the news about the pandemic and how nobody where I live seems to care. Despite all of that, I have friends and family who care about me, and in my darkest hour, it was hard for me to think about how it would affect them if I had went through with it.
Linkara is right; although it's easy to see the horror and injustice that happens in this world, it's also easy to overlook the goodness and compassion that's here too.
Watching this and listening to you has given me a lot to think about. It's not always easy, but I want to look more on the brighter side of things. Thank you, and keep doing what you're doing.
Oh it's THIS story. Never watched Superman vs the Elite but I have seen the big fight and as much as I love boy scout Superman, seeing him seemingly snap and unleash his full potential to "kill" the Elite was amazing. Helped by the fact George Newbern used his Sephiroth voice for it.
Apparently Fun fact: The Sephiroth bit was purely coincidental. Newbern was told to do a deeper Superman voice.If that is true, then that means Sephiroth is just Dark Superman. LOL
@@smashmaster521 Alternate Superman idea: human experimented on with alien DNA in utero..maybe that already exists somewhere?
@@smashmaster521 I meant more applying that to Superman as a backstory in an Elseworlds title, though I might be missing one that already does that.
There's some cool ones, like a trilogy that reimagines things with inspiration from Fritz Lang's Metropolis, Superman's Metropolis (yeah, bit on the nose with the title)
@@ToHoldNothing There was the Super American from Amalgam Comics, whose origins are a supersoldier serum derived from kryptonian DNA.
In a time of a pandemic, where it seems like our leaders are failing us.... in a time of uncertainty.... I wanna say thank you Linkara for this review. Thanks for reminding us what it takes to be a hero. Literally shedding tears as I write this.
Take care 💚
it’s the review and the comic we needed
To borrow from Undertale: "Don't kill and don't be killed. That's the best you can strive for."
"When people are scared, they tend to jump on a bandwagon well before they see who's driving it. But when they wise up: & they will, what matters is that you'll be right there leading by example just like always. Truth, Justice and the American Way- It ain't broke, so don't fix it".
contrary to a lot of other superheroes, superman didn't have some personal tragedy to shape him into who he is. he became a good man because he wanted to be a good man.
i remember this wonderful speech from the 12th doctor and it fits this discussion well:
Hey! I'm going to be dead in a few hours, so before I go, let's have this out. You and me, once and for all. Winning? Is that what you think it’s about? I’m not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone - or because I hate someone, or because I want to blame someone. It’s not because it’s fun. God knows it’s not because it's easy. It’s not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all, it's kind! It's just that. Just kind. If I run away today, good people will die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live - maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, maybe there’s no point in any of this at all, but it's the best I can do. So I'm going to do it, and I will stand here doing it until it kills me. You're going to die, too, someday. When will that be? Have you thought about it? What would you die for? Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. Stand with me. These people are terrified. Maybe we can help a little. Why not, just at the end, just be kind?
I think you pretty much nail it here. Clark kent didn't became superman because of some weird accident or tragedy or forced manipulation. He chooses to be superman! He is not superman because of some pathos( its not that he doesn't have some) but because the character is driven by his ethos. Choices and values. This is something that many writers just simply forget or misunderstand about him.
18:46 *Stares directly at Ignited* "I think you're trying too hard."
19:26 Ladies and Gentlemen, Stain from My Hero Academia. Yes, I know, the problem with their society is far more complicated than that, but there *is* some grain of truth to Stain's statement. An important part of being a Hero in that world is getting a sponsor, after all.
27:26 To take a line from Grant Morrison's *Flex Mentallo: Man of Mystery* : "Only an adolescent boy would confuse pessimism for realism."
28:08 Fitting, given the upcoming explosion. =D
31:48 I know, I'm bring up My Hero Academia again, but it's for a purpose. For all the good people in that world, for all the Heroes in it ( *True* heroes), there's still villains. Why? For a number of reasons, really. Some thought they were dealt a bad hand, and wanted to take out their anger on the world for abandoning them when they needed them most (Tomura). Some were upset they were never given the help they needed, so they became mean, but stayed kind to their own inner circle (Twice, Touga). Then, some felt that they were unjustly left behind by society, so they became a villain in the hope that they would inspire *someone* , that they would be remembered (Gentle).
I'm not going to lie.
Watching this video and SF Debris' video of Superman vs the Elite back to back, legit, just changed my viewpoint in life.
No matter how bad things get. No matter how horrible people run countries into the ground for profit and power. No matter how they can keep getting away with it... I will never lose my morals. And I, and I hope we all, will take this lesson in stride, and stop these guys again and again, until they or society changes for the better.
Thank you, Lewis, SF, the Patreon who requested this, and Joe Kelly.
Genuinely, I will be a better man today.
I'm with you there.😊
Me: *about to go to sleep*
*notification for this video pops up*
Me: "SLEEP CAN WAIT!"
6:36 The creator of the original was involved in the adaptation? *What spore of madness is this?!*
It's called "giving a damn". It's crazy and sometimes contagious.
dnmstarsi
Let’s hope THAT spreads around the world like covid-19.
Well, Joe Kelly _is_ one of the guys in Man of Action and thus is one of the co-creators of _Ben 10_ .
Anicomicgeek the more you know
@@sscool100 And knowing is half the battle!
If I remember correctly, in JLElite or somewhere Coldcast said that the other members of the Elite were being partially mindcontrolled by Manchester Black at this point, and that he made Coldcast dress like that because Black was a racist who thought it'd be funny to dress the one African American bloke on the team in a costume which referenced slavery.
Thanks for the explanation. I wondering why everyone brushed over that part of his design so quickly, especially since it's _super_ racist and his outfit had nearly NOTHING to do with electromagnetism.
Feels more like covering their asses, but I'll take it.
18:30 - Hoo boy. This is the brush so many of the fringe creators paint all comic book professionals under. Hating the medium, hating the fans, and hiding behind the money of big corporate backers more interested in the stories of 30 years ago while they gleefully rip apart those characters and laugh at any fans of them.
And stuff like this, this “too cool for school” attitude is what gives those critiques power, sends fans of superheroes running to every medium but comics to the point i half expect the MCU X-Men to have a joke where someone calls their mutant power a Quirk.
Mediums should not be above critique and above reproach. But when you constantly tell people “this sucks and you suck for liking it”, and then they leave the medium, don’t act surprised.
Dynaman21 Name names.
32:02
"That's my deconstruction of superheroes. People can be and are kind, so why wouldn't someone with incredible powers be kind too?"
That's not a deconstruction Linkara. That's a Reconstruction
or a revolution of the mask.............ill die with this pun
This is why I always play the compassionate and generous paragon hero in video games. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Infamous, it doesn’t matter. That’s because if the real world had people which as much power and influence as a video game protagonist, this is what I want them to be like. These games give you the option to be an unscrupulous jackass but I never take it because that’s not what I want to see. It’s not the person I would want to even pretend to be.
The message still rings true, but that’s a good point.
You got damn right!
I had watched a number of Frank Miller reviews prior to Born Again last week, and this coming out showcasing one of Superman’s finest moments makes me all the more pissed off at the way Miller wrote Superman in Dark Knight Strikes Again and ASBAR as either an innefectual meathead or just as inclined to want to rule over the earth like a god.
@Naquin Green He can't write for ANYONE because he doesn't GET anyone. He uses their names/character models as vessels for his own thoughts/opinions. He doesn't write Batman stories, he writes Frank Miller stories starring "Batman". Even with his actual critically acclaimed books, this is still true, it's just that his actual "good" works became mainstream and changed character X (Batman and Daredevil) to be a bit/lot closer to his version.
Even before I bought my first official comic book, that being Deadpool: Dracula´s Gauntet Nr. 1, I read this one as the part of a collection of Superman comics published by a local magazine to raise awareness of certain comics in Europe. This was before the whole MCU wave started. Looking back it is an interesting starting off point for somebody who has never earnestly read comics before.
"What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way?" Would make the perfect live-action Superman movie. Not only is its deconstruction of the superhero genre and critique of violent antiheroes ever-relevant, but Warner Bros could easily use it as a way to make Superman "relevant".
In this version, The Elite could be something like The Seven from "The Boys", ruthless, violent demi-gods motivated by greed and fame. Superman, on the other hand, would be the ideal foil, a traditional hero who is motivated by compassion and spreading hope.
Yeah but we already got Superman vs The Elite and that movie is awesome.
@@dnmstarsi It could be a way to try and repair the damage done by Zach Snyder.
One of the things I love about the movie adaptation of this comic is how well it captures Superman’s character. He’s powerful, yet kind and knows the value of restraint and compassion, something the Elite obviously don’t care about.
I also love Lois and Clark’s relationship in the movie. In fact, I think it might be my favorite version of the two. They clearly love each other, and while they may have their moments where they give each other grief, it’s always done in a way where you can tell they care about each other.
Honestly, while James Gunn has already stated he’s taking influence from the DCAU for the DCCU (Not DCEU), I really hope he’s also taking influence from Superman VS The Elite as that’s also a great portrayal of Superman’s character.
the comic that being Adapt to one of the best superman movies of all time
Bad comic
even worse film
@@Takao0815 really like seriously dude?
definitely in the top worst DC storys. But that's just my view. I could justify it. But surely you have reasons to like it too.@@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS
@The Fanguy I do not understand the question.
I like how in the end, Black gives a standard villain speech. "You should have killed me because I won't stop trying to kill you!"
Something that I do appreciate from the film version is that The Elite aren't immediately presented as ugly and cocky. Instead, it first introduces them with what makes their style so attractive and giving their worldview a bit sincerity to start with. The cracks in their image really start to show over time and through further displays of their actual decent into what brings that idea into extremism. It takes you along into this process of radical thinking as a way to expose it as radicalization.
Loved superman vs the elite, so curious about the source material.
Also - definitely glad they changed the name to something that's not such a mouthful
"This was during the time when Lex Luthor was president. God I miss the days when that seemed unbelievable." 🤣😭 so do I
Luthor's actually intelligent though...
@@Ice-Climber Yeah, if Luthor was put on the 2020 docket I might actually vote for Lex Luthor.
Ronald Regan was president. I don't think it should have ever been seen as unbelievable.
Yeah I think most of us do
@@chubbubdreamer6904 Regan before being president was a pretty succesfull governor in California for 8 years and has stopped being an actor to become a politcian long before his second presidential attempt.Trump is much more out of the blue event
That whole thing about Mark Millar taking over The Authority & turning it into his typical mindless edgelord 'offensive for the sake of being offensive', Frank Miller protege bullshit & having to come forward with a response to that mindset reminds me of just how good Kingdom Come is.
Grant Morrison has pretty much apologized for giving the man a career. That's an impressive diss.
Kingdom Come is good cuase its a similar deconstruction/reconstruction by having the one who saves the day be just some ordinary man who convinces the heroes that this path of destruction, death and violence just ISN'T the way and ISN'T them
@@panthergod if he is using satire, he is pretty good to hide it becaue neither in his run of Authority,, the Ultimates, in Wanted and many other of his work i ever notice that. What i get is the nasty potshot towards the fandom, the character, the medium plus the perennial use of the same couple of narrative device
@@PosthumanHeresy whos career frank's or mark?
Reminds me of the line from Flex Mentallo. "Only a foolish adolescent would confuse pessimism for realism"
Yes, in real life villains are not cackling mad scientists but also in real life many if the bad guys have the same power hungry vigilante attitudes of Mark Millar's Authority.
Superman's Dream Speech will forever stay in my mind and heart for all time. It's what defines Heroism and Superman in General.
It's called "A Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it
George Carlin aka Mr Conductor, and the only way I'll change my mind about that is when politicians keep their noses out of women's uterus #prochoice #endproject2025
Look everyone has dreams but you have to be a realistic with them.
I remember an episode of Supernanny where the family Jo was helping had 10 kids. Ages ranging from teenager to toddler, and the kids themselves weren't even "Bad kids" they were just little kids the problems came from because there were so many.
We find out mom wants 2 more kids and her dream was to have 12 kids. As Jo watches on we see that the oldest kids are being used as live in babysitters and one of them has a panic attack.
When Jo talks with the parents and Dad admits he's done having kids, and that he's so stressed out from work that he's drinking more and more, mom then starts crying and gets upset saying that no one supports her dream, and how everyone is "attacking her"
Hate to break it to you. But according to social media
Mom and dad got divorced. Mom got remarried and has 2 more kids, and her oldest kids don't have a relationship with her.
Missed opportunity of playing “What’s So Funny ‘bout Peace, Love, and Understanding” by Elvis Costello for the intro. Oh well, great review though
i wish the main inro of superman vs the elite had played
Legion
I think the comic's title is a deliberate reference to that song, but I can't find a reference to back that up
@@paulakroy2635 LEGION Season 3 in hindsight could receive a rewrite but i would still find a way to include that song
Ian R. Nava Huber what is the song
What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way seems like my favorite kind of Superman story - one that explores how Superman struggles to stay true to his morals while being challenged by the ugly side of humanity. I always roll my eyes whenever people call Superman "boring" or that the fact that he has great power and uses it for good is "unrealistic". Yes, we live in a world that often rewards evil people, but good people do exist, and when those good people have power, they use that power to do good. That is what makes Superman the classic superhero. He is, at his core, a good person with great power who uses that power to help others. He isn't perfect or boring, he's just... nice.
I have come back to this review almost every day lately. Its currently the end of may of 2020, and the US just keeps getting crazier. I come back here to try and remind myself of the ideals I try to live up to and teach. You dont have to become ugly and mean because the world is also becoming that. You can try and hold yourself higher. To be someone who fights for a hopeful future by being better than the world you see, instead of being like the world. Sometimes it means having to do the same things again and again. But just cause the battle is never ending, does not mean it isn't worthwhile.
The battle is never ending cousin because neither you or I are going to give it up. A world where dignity, honor and justice are a reality we all share is worth it.
The movie’s changes tended to be very minimal and done for plotting and flow. Except making The Hat a homage to Jigen from Lupin III, that’s just an out there reference.
That's because it was animated by TMS who like putting Jigen in their works as fun little cameos.
I’ve been really consumed by anger lately- looking for someone, anyone, to blame for this, wanting them dead. A year ago, I was having bad anxiety issues had to withdraw from college, was out for most of a year trying to get my meds straight, was finally going back this spring and getting my life back on track when this mess happened- this really helped a lot, man. Things still aren’t perfect, I’m still not perfect, and I learned the hard way never to consider internet reviewers I’ve never actually met as being like “family” to me- not after finding out about CA’s behind the scenes stuff- but seriously, THANK YOU. I think I really needed to hear this right now.
This issue is a masterclass in showing Superman and his ideals will never be outdated.
"They love us for it" could also be a comment about how those books were actually quite profitable. Comic book fans _themselves_ loved them for it, apparently?
It likely was both. After all, sales popularity reflects a popularity in the mainstream discourse, and a fringe group like comic book buyers having any sort of massive buying habit that reflects a political ideology indicates that either the ideology is in that group to the near exclusion of others or is so widespread it's infecting subcultures which are usually insulated from mainstream society influence like that.
Gotta give credit where it's due, your "English" accent is getting better. Generic but it works.
To me; One of the most fun things about goody-two shoes, nice guy, paragon heroes is when they finally SNAP; It's fun, cathartic, surprisingly terrifying, and a stark reminder WHY they should be nice in the first place.
I remember an interesting character in anime that might also elaborate on this situation: Kiritsugu Emiya
Kiritsugu was a man who did want a better world for people but after being forced into situations where he had to kill those he loved for the greater good, he became cold and cynical. Even the Grail saw this cynicism and would have killed the world if not for his choice to destroy the grail at the cost of the Great Fuyuki Fire.
However, he was saved in a sense when he choose to save one life, he who would become Emiya Shirou, instead of prioritizing the many at the expense of the few.
I bring Kiritsugu up because I initially thought that the ideas deconstructed in this comic were different from Kiritsugu's. However, I realize that in the end, they had the same message. The idea of saving people, of being kind to people triumphs over the cold calculating many over the few mentality
I always thought Jack Rider was a bit of a mirror of Clark's straight laced approach. Hence the similar but "scruffy" design.
Too add, the Elite at the time didn't need characterisation as the Authority was well known, even today it's enough to know they are simply Uber dicks. Plus they become a bit of a parody of Image as a whole at the time.
Just thoughts 😊
this is my favorite video you've ever made linkara. and I mean this genuinely. After this review alone it made me rethink my own views on Superman. I genuinely learned and adapted my opinion on him. This is quiet possibly the best review you've ever done. I'm glad to have watched it more than a year ago
What was your thoughts on Supes before and after?
@@l0sts0ul89 I originally thought superman before was honestly a really boring character. And I'll admit I didn't read a lot of books about superman either because I just wasn't interested. However after this specific review I found superman a greatly superior character to watch and to understand. Made me go out and actually buy a superman comic
Superman is what I love about a good superhero: he makes me want to be a better person. Overly gritty superheros just make me want to shower.
it is sad that aparently you can't have power and still be a good person.
power doesn't automatically corrupt someone.
I came here just after watching a clip of a Superman clone kill the Toyman in that movie Superman: Doomsday where people in the comment section are praising Superman for doing it. to say that this comic and its movie adaptation Superman vs the Elite is relevant today would be an understatement considering the huge amount of cynicism we got today.
With everything going on in the world right now, I'm glad I watched this review. I've been so angry about everything happening lately, and this helped me put things in perspective. Thank you Linkara.
"In the bloodiest times, there are kind people." -Bertolt Brecht
Linkara: "In the DC Universe death is like an extended weekend you are back by Tuesday"
Yeah like Earth-3's Duela Dent and Danny Chase
He explains that in his Heroes in Crisis review.
@@kimifw58 He also adresses it in March of The Titans and Countdown.
That is exactly why it is funny. Linkara's fave superheroes the Titans dies left and right and never returns. In strong contrast to his fake death/revival joke on Superman.
The titans are also my fave superheroes including Danny..... OTL
Whenever I feel bummed out about things, I come back to this review. Helps raise my spirits.
By far one of my favorite Superman stories. It's a perfect response to the cynical 'evil superman' stories too. As fun as those what ifs can be, I think it's easy to lose sight of who modern Supes is. Superman isn't just a symbol that spouts catch phrases. He's a character. He makes decisions, he has mental strength to do so. I find he's at his best when he's no longer a mascot or a Jesus allegory. But rather a good person. Superman is at his best, when he's a good person. Not always perfect, but always trying he best to do whats right.
1 reason I love superheroes is because they give us something to strive towards. When I see Superman I see a man who lost everything and still grew up to represent hope and peace. That why I love superman. It's important and valid to have role models in stories it gives people hope in a better world. It inspires people to act righteously and good.
"I got my morals more from Superman than I ever did from my teachers and peers. Because Superman wasn't real - he was incorruptible. You were seeing morals in their pure form. You don't see Superman secretly going out behind the back and lying and killing, which, of course, most real-life heroes tend to be doing."
Alan Moore
I think you're missing the point of the cover. Yes, it looks like all that destruction is Superman's fault, and that's the point. The intention of the comic is not preaching to the choir, but to explain to fans of books like The Authority why a character like Superman acting that way is not a good thing. So they attract them with a cover that shows them what they want to see _("Sweet! Superman with NO LIMITS!")_ and then proceed to explain in the comic why such a thing would be a bad idea.
It still looks awful and it's kinda misleading when you have Superman look like he's taking a page from that series but instead he's being someone who's against that crap.
It's nice seeing a super hero with parents. That also still help guide the hero, even superman needs advice, this I wish more comics were like this.
I like how the movie had Superman interacting with the Elite for a bit before he realized how their extreme they were (also they turned the Hat into a Superman fanboy which is hilarious).
What 90’s Anti-Heroes and the Watchmen share in common is that both are fascists.
The only differences are that the Watchmen were intentionally written as fascists and that the titular comic frames this as a bad thing.
Anything to slam Mark Miller's writing, I'm a fan.
I remember watching Superman vs. The Elite with my non-comic book reading brother and it was the only time we had a genuinely somewhat deep conversation about the ethics of when superheroes set themselves up as ultimate authority figures.
And this is why Superman is so awesome. As Flash in the Justice League TV series pointed out when they fought the Justice Lords, "He's not that much of boy scout after all." And Superman admits it, but what he is just a man who always tries to be better. He wakes up every day and tries to do good and be better then he was yesterday. Sometimes he makes mistakes and sometimes he has to make compromises and cross some kind of line, but he very rarely ever crosses the biggest line there is, except in very specific circumstances, and that is to kill. All life is precious, so he almost always tries to find another way, sure sometimes there are those that require more serious solutions, like the Elites here, but he almost never goes that far as to kill, at least not until every other option has been exhausted. He always shows restraint, which is what true power is, not abusing it and knowing when and who it's truly called for.
That is why he and a few other heroes are people we should aspire to be, not perfect do-gooders, but just people trying to do what they can, to just try and be good and be better then what they could be.
I will admit that Superman has never been my favorite hero. Sure, he's an admirable man, but that gets boring in the long run. But this story... I find this story better than All-Star Superman. Because this, more than anything I've seen or heard of, demonstrates just why Superman is the symbol of hope. He's not relatable in most ways, but he's not supposed to be. He's an example of taking the high road, and even if it's easier for him than those of us who don't have the option of shrugging off bullets, Superman is still the quintessential hero figure the world needs, and has always needed.
Superman isn't "boring".
It's just that many of his writers can't figure out how to use him, and what stakes to really make him fight for.
Marvel had a similar problem with Captain America, indeed most of the Avengers, in the 80s. Today, we know Cap as a man of strong convictions, a guy who can be an force of nature in battle, but who is genuinely trying to do what is right because it is what's right. Back then, Cap was sanctimonious, all he did was bark orders and judge everyone to be unworthy.
When you have a character that has lasted as long as Supes or Cap, one that has a history and has achieved iconic status, but suddenly he's "boring", it's not the character that's the problem. It's the writer.
@@JS-hw8ve Bad choice of words, I fully concede your point.
@@SchazmenRassir Dude, case in point.' They can be great people, Kal-El. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good... I have sent them you. My only son.' That's not only an example of just plain fantastic writing in a Superman story, but it comes from one of the most beloved Superhero films ever made. And that same movie NAILED Superman as a likeable and interesting character with an actual internal conflict.
Yeah, I'm definitely putting this as one of my favorite episodes.
It's nice knowing that while at times we see versions of Superman handled poorly, we DO get stories like this and All Star Superman that actually GET his character and try to remind us about who he is, what he believes in, and that he will never give up fighting for that dream to live in a world that won't need him, not for any cynical purpose, but for the purpose that the world is at peace...even if it's a dream that may take a VERY long time to achieve.
I think now more than ever with everything happening in the world, we need THESE morals more than ever and we need people to remember that it is possible to be a good person and to be better than what cynicism tries to make us believe.