Truth, Justice, and Why Superman Will Always Matter
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- A review and analysis of "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" from Action Comics #775.
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#superman #dccomics
A reminder that Zack Snyder basically quoted Manchester Black when he was asked a question about Batman killing his oppenents in Batman V Superman.
Color his hair purple, give him a black trenchcoat and a union jack t shirt and he'd be a spitting image of him.
@@battlion507 Huh your not wrong.
Man imagine a Superman movie where they literally cast Zack Snyder as Manchester Black and have Superman shut him down with the Dreams speech.
It terrifies me how accurate this is.
@@battlion507This
"Superman is too pure, too good, too much of a boy scout." Good thing he is, we have been shown what happens when he's not. 😱💀
Oh boy. Another story where Superman is extremist, or kills, or gets mind-controlled, or is cynical, or is an emotional dumpster fire. How original.
At this point, the boy scout has become the subversion.
@@BjornTheDim@BjornTheDim I can't express how tired I am of evil Superman. I want my superman to smile.
@@ATADSP did you already watched 'my adventures with superman'? it is finally a superman who smile and light hearted.
@@jonathanscherer7482 Good point about Spider-Man, this was also demonstrated in the Superior Spider-Man story arc when Otto Octavius took over Peter Parker's body and later decided to take up the mantle of Spider-Man and carry on his work; he practically punches Scorpion's jaw clean off in one fight, which made Otto realize how much power Peter had and how much he was pulling his punches.
@@jonathanscherer7482💗❤💗👏👏👏
Judging is easy
Understanding is hard
That's why most judge
🔥🔥🔥
I love Superman for the same reason I love Star Trek. No, it's not realistic. That's the point. Its aspirational. We may never achieve those ideals, but just trying makes us a little better every day. Imagine what mankind could accomplish if we just got our shit together.
And this is why we need Superman (and Star Trek) now more than ever. Everything is so shallow and cynical; we need characters that say "no, truth, justice, and the American way really are worth the fighting for."
Well said.
I find liking Superman and Star Trek is inseparable. Hopeful stories of good people doing good for its own sake and hoping the rest of us can join them in making a better world. Any claim Superman is boring (and strangely from sci fi nerds that love ST) because he's too powerful or perfect haven't actually read comics, cause his adventures are almost exactly like our intrepid space explorers. He either is much more powerful than the dilemma, but his morals and ethics prevent him from the easy solution, or some macguffin has taken his powers (like various energy fields in Star Trek) and he has to find a way without easy solutions. Or its a peer threat or a space imp testing him. Like EXACTLY the same.
I love Superman too. Unfortunately we live in a world where those in charge, right or left, only care about power. If only realistic, practical ideas ruled politics, but seems highly unlikely.
You had me at “aspirational”. That’s exactly correct. I don’t want to assume that people who don’t like aspirational characters just want fictional super-powered people to validate their choices instead of make them question them. But a lot of the arguments seem to boil down to “this is the choice I’d make” or “these are the priorities I would have” and therefore it would be better if this character made those choices instead of the ones they made in the story.
That said, people do that all the time with characters making decisions that aren’t inherently about morality or ethics. It happens a lot when characters in any story make a choice they wouldn’t have made and they call it a “plot hole”.
But it feels weirder when it’s about a moral or ethical choice.
So in "Avengers: Endgame", you know how the crowd goes absolutely NUTS when Cap lifts Mjolnir? (There are videos of this and they are a delight.) People aren't responding to "oh boy, now Cap is going to be able to hit Thanos really really hard". No, what they're picking up on is, Cap is The Real Deal. He is really such a good man that even ancient Nordic magic sees how special he is. We want to believe in Cap.
And we want to believe in Superman too. Not the super-feats, but that a person could simply opt to be the best version of themselves, and help people simply because it's within their abilities to do so.
We all would do well to think about whether we could step up just a bit, and be more like the Superman we want to believe in. Maybe we'll even have the opportunity to BE that Superman for someone else.
Being good is easy when you basically a god... Please remind me what happened when his town was nuked.
@@ЮрийЗагуменнов-ш7ц that is not Superman, they did his character dirty
@@ЮрийЗагуменнов-ш7ц That isn't superman they did him as a character dirty.
That's not superman, that's Ultraman wearing Superman's stripes. Like having evil people in a fantasy setting just being Nazis with funny hats. The writer can make Obama a universal world destroying threat, it doesn't mean it suits his "character arc" as a US president.
@@Omnesquodestbonum Assuming this is about injustice, isn't that kind of the point? He failed to live up to the ideals of superman when the chips were down, and now it's up to an actual superman to stop him? Injustice is an elseworld story, and its superman is more Ultraman than trying to say that superman needs to be edgy to be cool. IIRC, the showdown between Superman and Injustice Superman at the end of the comic heavily features Superman explaining just why going evil has only made Injustice supes weaker and hasn't actually solved any problems
Here is the secret to appreciating Superman: it's not about what only he can do, it's about what we could do too.
It's also about what he can do, but doesn't.
There have been so many Evil Superman things in recent years that it's easy to forget that Superman's defining trait is that he isn't an Evil Superman.
@@michaelramon2411 You've definitely got a point. It is very much a good thing I don't have Superman's power set, because if I had them, first thing I'd try to do is fix things. A lot of things. Almost certainly, too many things. It would involve a body count, and also, it would probably cause a lot of inadvertent chaos.
I find this story highlights the black and white thinking of many of Superman's naysayers really well. Like, if you find Superman boring, go read Wonder Woman, who is a bit more flawed and less crazy powerful while still being an inspiring idealist or any number of characters that are still upright, good people who aren't perfect.
Instead, they jump to the extreme, wanting murderers with superpowers.
Side note: when are you doing a Best Wonder Woman Ever? She deserves more love
The Elite were also a rejection of Garth Ennis' comic series The Boys, which was a fair sight darker and more nihilistic than the streaming TV series it spawned.
Always up for a good "Superman good, actually."
At the end of his novel The Hogfather, Terry Prachett gave us a great speech. He said that things like Justice and Mercy don’t exist but humans need to believe in them because how else can they become. That’s what Superman shows us: that there’s a better way and that we can be better.
Lobo might have been violent but was intended to be a parody/indictment of the idea.
That's been lost over time. Now, it seems, he's just another badass.
I wonder if even trying to do this was a lost cause from the beginning. The subtleties of the Punisher get lost too, when abusive cops use him as a mascot. There are fans of Judge Dredd who don't really recognize that he's a satire. And so on. It's like what François Truffaut said about war movies, that no matter how anti-war you try to make them, there's someone who's going to get off on the excitement of violence and decide war looks awesome.
Maybe that's why we need our Superman types, to set against them.
@@MattMcIrvin
Dredd was a satire?
( Also I agree with that comment. People find violence to be inherently fascinating. So any attempt at anti-violence media is inevitably going to bent to the favor of pro violence. )
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 There is a storyline in comics where he literally fights stand ins for popular brand mascots who are now messianic fascistic religious figures. What do you think?
Lobo was intended to be a cautionary tale for how absolutely horrible it would be if the most vile roadie for Metallica was half as powerful as Superman.
The problem is that guys like Lobo absolutely love him and see him as aspirational. Like how pigs aspire to be the Punisher, or how nazis aspire to be Joker or Thanos.
Put THIS in a Superman movie. You still get your big ol' CGI superhero fights and Superman gets to display his values in a meaningful way.
Go watch Superman vs. The Elite. It's basically this story with a few bits added. Like it delves into Manchester Black's backstory ad stuff. Also, the ending is a bit different, but still really good.
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many."
I really liked the original run of "The Authority" but even then I thought that team's real superpower was insufferable super-smugness, no wonder I loved "What's so funny about truth justice and the Amercan way". Another great palate cleanser to the edgy grim darkness of the 90's I can reccomend is Grant Morrison's "All-Star Superman"
I've always wondered if Morrison intended the acronym to be A.S.S LOL
Same. As a slice of something different it was a fun read, but it's not a world I wanted to live in and inhabit for long periods of time.
The thing to remember about the Authority was what came before them. The previous Stormwatch series was about a world where cynicism was the core of the government-sponsored supers. Jenny Sparks set out to create the Authority to control the chaos that Stormwatch left behind, but also to find a better way. That's the magic of the Authority as originally envisioned: it was about superhumans trying to figure out how to be superheroes. Of course, then Mark Millar got his hands on the book and all of that was forgotten. But for the first year it was all about the team doing their best to save cities and the whole world, and marveling at the end of each story arc at the miraculous good they'd managed to do in spite of the odds. The Ellis-written Authority aspired to be their world's Superman-like ideal heroes.
@@SingularityOrbit Correct, and Steve's review of "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?" also covers why it's an abject failure of a story--because, like "Kingdom Come" (another reeking pile that was insanely overpraised), it's unwilling to intelligently address the issues raised by something like the Authority and falls back, instead, on merely caricaturing the whole thing. Steve's description of the Elite is accurate but no one who has actually read Ellis' Stormwatch and the Authority will recognize those characters or their activities in it. It's just a superficial caricature, like the version of progressives one gets from Fox News.
Two hours ago I was debating with my partner about whether or not Superman is cool and/or interesting and if he and his stories mean more than just being a cultural symbol of US Hegemony. In the end we agreed to disagree, but finding this video so soon after, really makes me smile. I had no idea you did videos on Superman and now I see there are several, thank you so much.
"cultural symbol of US hegemony" - every time I have heard someone say that, it's someone who is just trying to find fault, and doesn't have any actual legitimate complaints. The reality is, Superman is what each of us could be if we simply tried to do good rather than be selfish jerks. Granted, we couldn't all fly to the moon or whatever, but we could take care of one another and make this a vastly better world.
Some people curse the darkness, and some people light a candle. And still others curse those who light a candle. That last bunch is the "US hegemony" crowd.
He also has videos on Batman.
The symbol of America, a Jewish-coded illegal immigrant with faked papers.
I was just talking about Captain America--and he's an even better example. The guy is literally a patriotic hero done up in an American flag motif, a guy who'd code as reactionary at your first glance. The thing I love about him is that, starting with his reimagining for the 60s-70s Marvel Age, they decided not to use him lazily as a jingoistic hero but to make him a man who kept challenging America to be its best self. And that's become central to the character.
@@kingbeauregard I mean, I can definitely see the arguments. Especially for the older depictions of him where there's more focus on the whole "American Way" part of "Truth, Justice and the American Way".
The argument against Superman's style/values also was relevant to killing him off. The Reign of the Supermen books in between his death and resurrection presented possible replacements, though the story was not as good as "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?"
Yeah, this was the whole point behind the Eradicator and, to a lesser extent, Cyborg Superman. Eradicator's whole deal is "Superman stripped of morals and willing to kill bad guys." Just like it was with Azrael and Batman, for that matter.
@@pjlusk7774 It extends to Superboy and Steel too. Superboy's pretty much an embodiment of Superman's fame and marketability wrapped up in a "totally radical" 90's teenage reinvention who gets suckered into being essentially the mascot of a major cable network. There's even an in-universe "Death of Superman" video game that gets made, for crying out loud. But even with being a snarky kid who'll flirt with pretty much any female that moves, he still has an actual sense of heroism and wanting to help people mixed in with all that that becomes more prevalent as time goes on. Yes, the superhero genre is clearly lucrative and it's easy to write it off as a shallow enterprise meant to sell comics to fans and toys to children and line the pockets of businessmen...but there's clearly more to it even with all the corporatism surrounding the genre, something that people genuinely click with and are inspired by.
And then there's Steel. No superpowers, just an ordinary human inspired by Superman. Notably, he's the only one of the four who doesn't ever try to say he's Superman reborn, he's just a guy trying to do the right thing with what he has.
Cyborg Superman is his power. The Eradicator is his alien heritage. Superboy is his fame. Steel is his human heart and compassion and determination to fight for the right thing. It's pretty genius what the four replacement Supermen speak to as far as different aspects of the character, and frankly for me the whole Death and Return arc's more interesting bits are the stuff revolving around them in the wake of Superman's death.
The best part of My Adventures With Superman is that all the villains are all cyincal of his motivations, while he just wants to help
Agreed. All of them accuse Superman of wanting to conquer the world or think that he wants power... but naw, Supes really does just want to make the world a better place and these cynical idiots are just shooting themselves in the foot by underestimating his will to protect people. Even for the antagonists who are also trying to protect people, they also keep insisting that Superman is secretly an Injustice-type villain and that cynical insistence just hinders Superman and it allows the truly monstrous villains to remain as threats.
🙂
Being the "good guy" requires living up to a higher standard. Supes showed that brilliantly.
I'm going to use this as another opportunity to trash "Man of Steel".
Superman here: "Can we at least fight where noone will get hurt?"
Man of Steel: Large portions of Smallville and Metropolis are destroyed
No, I will NOT let that go!
I know that doesn't justify this. But ZOD is ZOD. Superman ll 1980
Yeah, that didn't make any sense at all to me.
I can excuse that by Clark in that movie being a newbie and an elseworld Superman. The movie thrusted him directly into an alien invasion. He is not an established hero. Over the movies I get the impression he is a reluctant hero, who is more interested in a relationship with Louis, which is why the plan was to turn him bad, by killing her (something often used in cheap imitations of Kingdom Come). Im so glad that didnt happen.
"But...but he's LEARNING. he has to learn that human life deserves to be protected and that murder is wrong. That makes him relatable right?" /s
That Zod guy seemed so reasonable. Can't believe Clark didn't make the request.
I like how Joe Kelly gave The Elite powers that every fan has raved over the years could kill Superman:
Manchester Black: Psychic Powers (he's basically a British Tetsuo)
Hat: Magic (like what Mister Mxyzptlk uses)
Menagerie: Stronger Alien Life (akin to Doomsday)
Coldcast: EMP's (I swear I've heard fans argue that one could kill Supes)
It's like he wanted to distill those tiresome fan arguments into four adversaries that would prove Superman is an unkillable ideal. I respect that.
I used to be one of those edgy comic book fans who thought that Superman boring and irrelevant. This story was one of the things that changed my mind about Supes. I wish that Zack Snyder would have read this story before doing Man Of Steel.
I wish I could give this comment a thousand upvotes. I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm pretty sure Zack Snyder has only read The dark Knight returns, Superman #75, A death in the family, watchmen, and 300.
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq Death of Superman
Dod you see the animated movie Superman vs The Elite?
Also have you seen My Adventures with Superman.
*Perfection*
Superman being “too pure” and a “boys scout” is my favorite thing about him. I’m kinda sick of seeing evil Superman. He’s a superhero and a fictional character, I love seeing Superman as a completely righteous character, there’s enough evil out there let Superman be a hero.
As a fellow Superman fan, I always enjoy your videos; thanks, as always!
In Superman vs Batman Superman says, "No one stays good in this world."
I was like *WHO WROTE THIS GARBAGE*
The whole debate reminds me of some history. When assembling the court for the Nuremberg trials, an assistant asked a prosecutor "They're Nazis, the worst of the worse Nazis. Why are we bothering with a trial?"
The Prosecutor responds with something to the affect of, "They abandoned law and justice. How are we different if we do the same?"
The power of story is the ability to offer real world lessons in a different contextual environment, and that story did a great job of that.
Back in 1978 in Superman the Movie, Lois & Lex both reacted with disbelief at the idea of someone sincerely good with power. Later Lois and Miss Tessmarker were inspired by that same sincerity.
Philip Wylie’s Gladiator, written in 1924, arguably the most direct ancestor of Superman, was a satirical deconstruction of the heroic ideal. Hugo Danner, protagonist of Gladiator and very similar to Clark beat for beat, found that his perfectly ethical behavior was endlessly punished by a corrupt world, and that super strength and invulnerability were very little help.
This is a really old conflict.
Personally, I want to believe in the fantasy of having the power to help those in need, without being destroyed by the world. It’s a good fantasy. We need it.
I actually liked the animated film adaptation better than the comic. I think it fleshed out the story nicely and really brought the whole experience to life. Great story either way, and one that so many need to hear.
Superman vs The Elite was worked on by the guy who made the comic. So that'll be a big part on why it's more fleshed out; he's using the medium to expand.
It helped that Joe Kelly wrote the screenplay for that adaptation. Not my favorite style of animation, but, yes, brilliant!
"What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?" is my favorite Superman story. It perfectly encapsulates the core of Superman's character. And it's something I come back to when I feel down about the world. Don't stop fighting for a better world. It's worth it.
3:20 At least Lex Luthor is actually INTELLIGENT. Honestly rather have him than the orange dollop of Oompa Loompah turds piled six feet high.
Something that always annoyed me was that people keep asking Superman or Super Heroes in general to kill. If the people want villains dead, why doesn't the state do it and leave the arrest to the Heroes?
How crazy that this came out around 6 months before 9/11 which would make all of its themes even more relevant.
I came to say something similar, but sort of snarky. It's sort of unwittingly prophetic, which reminds me of DS9 when watching it through in the 2010s.
Superman is someone you should live up to. And we will always need him, no matter the time. Do better. Be better.
Both you and Overly Sarcastic Productions have single-handedly changed my mind about Superman, Batman, and superheroes in general. Thank you for that! 😁
The animated adaptation, "Superman vs. The Elite" is also worth a watch.
I have *adored* "My Adventures With Superman." Some reasons are personal, but I also think the writers and VAs brought Kal-El into a "relatable" era.
I think it helps that we see Superman keep the good fight while fighting opponents who are actually strong enough to take him out at this point.
I believe that any story where super"heroes" are divorced from the concept of altruism is a bad story written by someone who doesn't understand superheroes or heroism.
During the Lex Luthor President arc, he put his fortune in a blind trust. A fictional conicbook villain acted with more integrity than than real life Donald Trump.
Finally someone on RUclips who gets the point of Superman. Thanks for the great video.
The animated movie adaptation also slaps
Jesse Owens inspired SUPERMAN the Man of Steel Blessings and HUGS 👑💜
It tears superman haters up inside that people just like superman
A quote from the animated movie:
"Heat vision, focused through your pupil like a scalpel. INSTANT lobotomy"
I didnt even know Superman could freaking do that shit with his powers. Not only does it show jow intelligence, creativity and CONTROL of his powers, it shows how much he holds back for the sake of keeping as many people safe. He could easily break the world. No no, he wants to fix it. How easy would it be, no....he chooses the harder route cause he believes in hope.
Seeing manchester black crying at the supposed manglement of his team wasn't cathartic or enioyable it made me sad, and i think that was the point
I love Supeman. I love his endless optimism and faith in even the worst of us. I also, however, love Injustice where we saw an alternate Superman driven to extremism by his determination to "Never again" have to suffer that loss. I enjoyed watching Brightburn, where we might a young Superman without the moral guidance of the Kents. Irredeemable is one the greatest horror comics in history, imo. I enjoy quite a few of the subversions (notably not Homelander (come at me if you want, he's horrible)). But what people forget while they obsess over all those subervisions and casts against the Boy Scout is that they do not work without him. Without his incorruptible standard, without his simple trust in us, all of them lose their punch. There are others that hold to a code, that set standards. But Superman is THE standard. He is what we'd all want an actual meta human to be. He is the ruler by which we measure all the others. So, sure, say you don't like him. But you'll still reach for him and still use him as that standard, even if unwittingly.
Sorry for the rant. Great video on a wonderful comic.
I think the reason why the DCEU Superman failed is they did not understand this sentiment. Superman is supposed to be pure and good. He is supposed to show us what good is and let’s face it being good is difficult and hard and dangerous
This is why Superman is my favorite superhero. He represents what we can be at our best.
actually there are people who don't like this story because they like manchester black and his gang and they want them to win
So, in fairness? I haven't been a Superman fan for years. It is, as one might say, not my thing. However, 775 was a GREAT Superman comic because it does in fact reflect the 'place' of a character like Superman in the broader franchise and that there is always a place for them there. It's a phenomenal issue and its remake on TV was excellent as well.
In general? I like that Superman (particularly when done well) exists as a comic, for many of the same reasons that I like Captain America. They are, at many times, intrinsically hopeful characters in worlds where it is easy for hope to die, especially when that is a prevailing trope in the overall era. The persistence of hope as an icon is important. Someone has to retain the moral high ground, because without that character you can't properly juxtapose characters like the elite. They become gratuitous, unnecessarily violent and gory and you lose some of the 'why' people like them might exist.
Sups will never be my favorite. I like my heroes dark and twisted, gritty and visceral. But I want there to be a Sups around, to make sure that the shadows are long enough for my favorites to lurk in. And for those who love the light? Enjoy your "boy scout." He definitely has his moments in the sun for a reason.
...also, my Superman will always be Reeves. He just will. I grew up with those films, and that one piece of nostalgia never quite dies in me.
George or Christopher? Or both? 😊
I know you meant Chris, once you clarified, but my answer would be both. The old 50s TV shows were constantly rerun on the local TV stations and that's how us little Boomers could imbibe all that Pleasantville vibe... it's why the darkness crept up on us without our noticing. Sorry.
And it's why we need a strong dose of disinfectant sunshine right about now.
Please kids, don't get so grim about the bad in life that you fail to see the light...
And please please register to vote and then do it. This is no time to give in to the Authority or the Elite or Lex Luthor, no matter how much easier it feels. Vote, because in this world, WE are Superman, the only Superman we will ever have, and we need to show the world, that we still do the hard but right things, "not because they are easy, but because they are hard." (JFK quote, for the little kids in the back).
Remember reading this in HS and truly made me fall in love with Superman on an adult level. Manchester literally did what he said he hated Superman till his dying day even when fighting alongside him in Warworld.
It amazes me that Superman is a world wide phenomenon, i always thought he was just a american thing but Hes enjoyed all.over the world.
Superman is not only misunderstood or discarded prematurely on a character study realm - he's often discarded for "being too powerful" when he's really far from invincible. I've read a lot of Superman comics where he's more resourceful than the average pop culture fan thinks.
This is one of my favorite stories. If we can't hold on to our ethics _and_ compassion and do the right thing, in the worst possible situation when people are at their worst, what's the point?
This is why i think Manchester Black works so well as an opponent to Supes
"...all authoritarians... can never be anything other than what they are. In their arrogance, they don't believe they'll ever _need_ to be anything else. In their ignorance, they don't know _how_ to be anything else."
I wish there was a way to take that line and throw it straight into everyone's mind at once. Saying it needs to 'go viral' just doesn't cut it.
WELL SUPERMAN IS DEF MY THING
This to me is one of the best Superman comics out there. It helps make Superman stand out to defend his very ideals and point that people criticize him over, showing what happens if he leaves his morality and how dangerous things can really get if he chooses to simply not hold back.
The animated adaptation, Superman vs. the Elite, is my favorite Superman movie.
A classic, iconic story, and one I won't be surprised to see adapted in the upcoming James Gunn Superman film (in fact, I might be a bit disappointed if that's not the basis for the story, if it features the Authority). I used to be one of those "Superman is too boring" people, but I've grown up since then, and really come to appreciate "the Big Blue Boy Scout", especially when he's contrasted with these more "dark and edgy" characters, or even if he's tempted or tested. Superman & Lois really hits about the right spot for me on that idea, but this story is an excellent showing of why Superman as a beacon of hope really works (and why I disliked the Snyder Supes, I suppose).
I feel so called out by the intro
My main issue with this comic is that it makes the contrary position more extreme in order to counter it.
You could actually have, say, a system where the supervillains stand trial, but then they get the death penalty so they can't wreak havoc again. You can have heroes who do prioritize civilian lives, and try not to kill the villains, but will if necessary. They don't need to be callous and heartless, just a bit less idealistic.
That is an argument against Superman's way of doing things that is more difficult to rebut. Honestly, I'm not sure you can. I think it might make more sense to argue that Superman should do what he does, but other heroes might do that other approach.
Of course, the main reason not to have the death penalty is so the villains can be used again. It's a story conceit that bypasses the real world arguments altogether. Unlike the real world, we don't actually want the badguys stopped permanently.
Which is kinda sad, because it means Superman can't accomplish his dream. Not permanently, at least.
Yes, the Elite is a superficial caricature of the Authority, and this story's "rebuttal" of the Authority is no more effective than some Fox News "rebuttal" of some progressive.
Inspire them, lead by example, and above all: Give them hope. THAT'S a job for Superman.
awesome. this is my favorite superman story. unfortunately ive not read it in its entirety, having only watched the DC animated movie adaptation , "superman vs the Elite" but if you ve seen that version, you know it is a faithful adaptation. and i watch every year or so and it brings me to tears every time .
Beautifully done. Always enjoy your takes on Superman.
The movie based on this comic is really great too
My favorite observation about superman is the assertion that he is the high water mark. Similar to (at least the better versions of) Captain America, he is the Paragon by which the universe is judged. If there is an argument between super heroes, and super man is on the other side, either something way deeper is going on that's got even him fooled, or you might just be the bad guy. If super man is pushed to do something close to that line of what is acceptable, things have gone wrong. He is the hero that other heroes look up to.
Loved this the moment it came out - a great companion piece to Kingdom Come - where Clark's good upbringing is put to the test!
Steve, I cannot thank you enough for posting this. I am currently in a very deep state of depression caused in no small part by events playing out in America right now. I have sometimes felt like that child on the ledge of a skyscraper in All-Star Superman, about to let go of all hope and surrender to death because no ideal could break through that darkness. But, there is always Superman, isn't there? And there are still people holding on with what strength they have left to the ideals he has always championed. People like Steve Shives. I'm going to step away from the ledge now and try again. Thank you.
This video was truly incredible
Great video, Steve. You know I'm on the same page as you because I've asked you about this kind of attitude before on your Q&A streams. This is also why "No One Likes Superman Anymore" by I Fight Dragons is one of my favorite songs.
I will always defend the death and return of superman story was not a gimmick or a stunt. It was and idea the creative team had and they ran with it. It incorporated all of the lore and primary, secondary and tertiary characters that the previous years had set up and they gave us a comic book three part epic and I enjoyed the hell out of it. Its only downside was the clones and stunts from other DC titles and other companies that this story initiated. But hey what do I know? I was only there at the scene.
If I remember correctly Black ended up working with Superman for a bit of redemption in the last Warwold story.
Thanks for making these essays. Over the past few years, Ive grown to be a huge fan of the big guy. Your clips were also instrumental in that. There was a time when I considered Man of Steel the best Superman. That was before I learned more about the character and what made him really great (his character, not powers).
Have you read All Star Superman? It seemed to be similar in tone.
Here's a weird turn of historical fact: *_Exitus Acta Probat,_* "The End Justifies The Means", is the ancestral motto of the family of . . . George Washington.
Perhaps if Washington had been just slightly a different sort of person, if he'd had one different teacher as a child or commanding officer as a young Lieutenant, perhaps when he was invited to make himself King, he would have taken the chance, and our world would be Earth-3.
I absolutely loved this run and it's also one of my favorite DCAU movies.
This is my all-time favorite single issue superman comic and The adaptation of this Superman vs the elite is my favorite superman flim!
It's just that Supes new villain nowadays is cynicism. That's I think something modern writers of him need to tackle, and "Superman: Rebirth" actually did so, and "What's so funny about Truth & Justice?" felt like the groundwork for it.
Rebirth even gave me my personal favorite quote of the man of tomorrow, which I hope one day makes it inot a major adaption.
It is an answer he gives to Batman in a bit of a dire situation:
Batman: "Clark, the world is darker then you think!"
Superman: "Then we need to shine brighter."
Superman is optimism in its purest forms, and this story even gave him his first really good and interesting villain in over 20 years in manchester Black.
Batman is partially so popular because people can invesion themselves wearing his cowl and because his villains are parts of him that have become twisted and vile. And I think manchester is that for Supes. Lex is the opposite of Supermans heart - a self centered greedy man only out for himself. Manchester is the opposite to Supermans soul - A eternally vile cynic hellbent on forcing people to admit his take on the world is right.
This was awesome and I believe this story was an animated episode.
In Superman, Earth 1, the book ends quite cleverly when we read an exclusive interview with Superman from Clark Kent.
And it was the one story where I was actually OK with the explanation of why Superman did not prescribe to the saying, “Truth, Justice, in the American way”.
He does not degrade growing up in the USA, in fact, he’s grateful for it. But says, that if he were to identify solely with the country he was raised in, then his actions might be seen only in the best interest of the "American Way" when his actions and his purpose is for the entire world. He says he's for humanity, not just for one country or its leaders. And to gain that trust, he refuses to take political sides…or even the allusion of it through a mantra. And to me, that was pivotal as it was truly reflective of a Superman. And while I personally don't mind the saying for nostalgia's sake, I don't mind if it's not utilized due to what he means to so many fans all over the world. For me, there will always be a need for him, he is always relevant, and why he's still my favorite Hero.
Superman and this story is more relevant now than ever. Both in the realm of comic book superheroes and in real life in general. Superman vs the Elite was an excellent adaptation. I hope James Gunn's Superman film in 2025 really does take inspiration form it. Imagine the "Dreams Save Us" speech on the big screen for the whole world to see. The world needs to see a man who stands up for truth and justice against people who see them as old-fashioned, to actually show the future he hopes and fights for.
I miss when President Lex Luthor was unthinkable
Gotta say, this series as a whole and your work in general is really well done. Well thought out, well scripted, entertainingly expressed. Good stuff.
I admit I'm not a huge fan of Supe but he does protagonizes two of my favorite comics. The one mentioned in the video, Red Son.
This comic is the reason I went from somone who didnt like Superman, to somone who knows sees him as one of his favrites. It made me GET Superman
"superman isn't a god like the ones from the past...because he sets rules for himself." -Alan Moore. Superman forces us to think "Wait there is a another way to solve our problems than using brute force." There are many moments that showcase how strong superman is mentally and why his villains usually lose:
1. The conservations between him and hitman are endearing. Hitman is a murderous vigilante yet he idolizes Superman, and Superman appreciates his efforts to cheer him up.
2. Superman visits a child with cancer at her ward and calls her his hero. She breaks down in happy tears.
3. The Death of Superman. In the aftermath of his "death," we see how much he meant to the city, the individuals. We see Maggie sayer and the police sad, we see how Steel (before he became Steel) tried to help superman and blames himself for not being there for the man who saved him-leading to his decision to become a superhero, the mutants living under the sewages recalling how superman was a friend to them when no one else would, and a young boy who is crying over superman's death but sees a young girl sad too. He then goes over to interduces himself, thinking "this is what superman would do."
4. Lois Lane recalling how she was angry with Clark for lying to her for years about his true identity. But then she sees what matters- Clark was lonely, but he always helped people in and out of the costume, he was genuine, he NEVER tried to change her-in fact Lois Lane finally found someone who could keep up with her, how he cooks her dinner, and how he is always worried about her health.
I've been aware of the Superman vs the Elite story for years now, and whenever it gets brought up in a discussion, I always say that both sides make excellent points, because while Superman's way of doing things symbolizes true heroism, and it can inspire society to become better, it unfortunately does not work on everyone, as while I believe that everyone should have second chances in order to make up for their mistakes, there are the unfortunate few that take advantage of that, such as the unsalvageable garbage that is the Joker, who takes opportunities given to him out of goodwill, and uses it to basically have a revolving door around Arkham, instead of getting the chair like a regular Blackgate inmate would have gotten, and that is why people like Manchester Black or Jason's Red Hood are needed, so that they can save more possible victims by just ending those horrible psychopaths, but we just need a balance of both ideals where they could coexist, instead of getting in each other's ways, but if it ever did happen then there would not be as many new stories, since most very troublesome problems would end up being fairly easily resolved.
I wish you had spent a bit more time addressing the real-world skepticism (at best) towards our justice system that is entirely valid and just ... a reading of our reality. I think that does in a lot of ways contribute to the misguided appeal of the Elites type characters/approach, but also, the more grounded legitimate critique of some Superman storylines. But other than that, great video!
Superman has the same special quality that the original Optimus Prime has. He's strong enough to be gentle.
I think if superman's basic values and what he stands for do not appeal to the reader, it also speaks volumes about the readers themselves.
Only just read this issue the other day, and now one of the best comictubers has put out a video on it? Hell yeah!!
... you and me are the SUPERMEN/SUPERWOMEN when we STAND UP 4 the TRUE DEMOCRACY of THE WORLD 🌎/MANKIND!
Those complaining about Superman's very high morale standards are begging for the Injustice universe to happen.
I love Superman, but I hate ongoing comics. I much prefer self-contained stories like All-Star Superman. The anthology red and blue is also very good. These stories allow for definitive beginnings and endings and more substantial looks at themes.
Superman vs The Elite was my favorite Superman media the second i watched the film. It's a direct response to "The Boys" or other highly cynical superhero comics/movies. Superman should be idealized because he is the best part of humanity, and murderers and torturers are the last people that webshould celebrate. Superman is more than neutralyzing evil, like Batman, he tries to reform the villains. We like these heroes because they show us what a hero should be.
Also, Superman letting loose and scaring the dogshit out of The Elite and Manchester Black, showing them WHY he's so merciful, why he leads by example, is just so good.
Wow! This was so good I felt the need to comment, just to try to please the algorithm. Thanks Steve!
I’ve a soft-spot for nineties Superman; the electric blue era while a bit goofy in some places, had some heart and imagination that is on par with the Silver/Bronze Age
This comic reminds me of DS9's "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". It specifically reminds of me of the verbal showdown between Dr. Julian Bashir (perhaps the only DS9 character to maintain his moral compass throughout the series) and Admiral Ross. Dr. Bashir was the most Roddenberrian character to come out of DS9. Unfortunately the episode ends with him being truly disillusioned and feeling defeated.
Yep, the writers of DS9 really had a thing against Roddenberry's ideas and thought his restrictions on humanity weakened their writing. Some of it was silly of course such as humanity doesn't grieve anymore but a lot of Roddenberry's ideas still had merit.
@@nathanielheilmann7351 THANK YOU.
This Superman story "What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way" is a great representation of who Superman is, what the ideals he stands for are, why it would be bad if Superman compromises on his ideals, why Superman chooses NOT to kill, and why Superman will remain relevant in spite of a world that sometimes doesn't respect his morals and ideals. I especially enjoyed the animated film version of this story, Superman vs. The Elite, and thought that it was better than the comic version. This also shows how Zack Snyder doesn't understand Superman to the point that he even quoted Manchester Black's line about "living in a dream world" when someone argues on how Zack's approach to superheroes isn't true to who they are. Zack simply doesn't Superman, but this story does.
IMHO Joe Kelly is The Best Superman Writer in comics history. James Gunn would knock Superman: Legacy out of the park if he used Kelly's stories as the inspiration for his movies. Please do a video about Joe Kelly's entire run, not just his most popular issue!
From what issue started Kelly's run?
I used to be in the Superman hater crowd.
But this series of yours did some pretty good work in getting me out of that headspace and getting me to understand what big blue's really all about.
I might even be so bold as to call it... the best Superman analysis ever.
I love this story but it does leave open the question of how to resolve hyper-powered psychopaths with Superman’s specific moral guidelines. In the comic universe, even Superman has had to flex that moral line with his Phantom Zone generator that he deploys without a legal authority when he sees fit. The animated movie version of this story puts the consequences of Superman’s reluctance to kill a bit more at the forefront with the public’s turn against Superman’s ways being the repeated escapes of the Atomic Skull from prison that results in numerous deaths in Metropolis (why do people still live there?!). When Manchester Black executes him, the rally of support is pretty complete. It’s a great human question that will likely never be answered as it always balances along the precarious razor’s edge of Safety vs Freedom
I think this actually shows the problem with Superman's philosophy. Its easy to be the Big Blue Boy Scout when you have undefeatable abilities.
It took everything the Elite had to land a couple scratches on Superman, exhausting them for the rematch. Superman defeats them handily, humiliating them in the process.
In a sense, he proves Manchester's maxim that "Those with the power make the rules."
And the idea Superman posits is that power is no excuse for Monstrosity.
We've seen the timeline where Superman takes a zero-tolerance philosophy on crime and punishment, and very rarely does subjugating the planet by his might and power lead to a better and more meaningful world.
If he was in OUR world, sure
This is the DCU, gods and monsters are not in short supply