This was a huge help! Thanks for putting this together. I was trying to figure out how to get the steering response I wanted and this made so much sense!
Thank you for leaving the feedback! It lets me know I did a good job and that the video is actually useful for people! Hope to see you in the comments more often
Thanks a ton man i appreciate this so much. Im newly back to BMX after a six year hiatus and trying to figure out all the crazy stuff about bikes. I follow you on insta and it brought me hear. To smart I'm sure you will have this channel blown up . Thanks man
Your best video! I had read and enjoyed that same article on Odyssey’s website. I like how you added the circles showing tire travel to the pictures while posting them on your video. You show full merit to the article and then more. Great comprehensive explanation narrative!
@Brant_Moore I have a Kink Whip and I just ordered a set of the F-25s cause I ride street with brakes and a little bit of park. What size stem would be good for me and could you recommend one? Please and thank you
would a steep ht angle with long fork offset, and mellow ht angle with short fork offset act differently? or does it just kinda even out and feel about the same?
How do you think this effects fakies? I feel like I notice instability the most during fast fakies and fakie carves. Do you think trail still stabilizes and self straightens during a fakie or does it flip and do the opposite because the motion is backwards? If it does the opposite maybe a steep fork would give a smoother fakie with a added benefit of a tighter carve. Thoughts?
Very interesting. I’m thinking of getting a WTP Reason 2021, and I was wondering if its apparently extreme geometry would make it a bad choice for a beginner, what do you think? It has a 76 degrees HTA and 15mm fork offset.
When you’re first learning you haven’t developed a sense of what you like yet or what tricks you’ll do, so most likely you’ll just ride it no problem and learn just as well as on any other geometry. Then once you start to learn some tricks and get better you’ll slowly start to figure out what geometry you like and that’s when you start changing things or even realize that you want to keep it the same
This helped me figure out that my forks are most likely bent and I need new ones, my bike is for trails...With a little street, sometimes I got pegs on it and I have a bash guard.
The rake, trail, and offset destabilizes rotation for flatland tricks. It would nice to find a geometry where flatland can be done with a bike still somewhat capable of other styles of riding.
Do rear hubs like unsealed and sealed bmx hubs. And would it be possible to keep the hub shell from the front hub and put in sealed bearings and a new axle?
I would highly doubt it would work without some heavy modification of the hub shell. For the time, effort, and money involved, it would probably be more worth it to buy even the cheapest sealed hub you can find.
@@Brant_Moore thats what i was thinking because i looked at a hub i had apart and its just like any unsealed bike it has cups to hold the balls so it wouldnt fit sealed bearings but i wanted to see if there was any cheap way to do it thanks
This is the harsh reality of box you get what you pay for instead of trying to make something into something that was not made to be that way. I am a old man in a young men's sport but have seen a lot of changes in bmx over the 2 decades I have been in this bmx life. Get this Huffy bikes made a strong come back and everyone wanted one the TL88 Todd Lyons signature frame. Unfortunately most of you don't have any clue who this bmx savage is. Bmx in the late 90s early 2000. I feel was the best time and it was lit. Dan's competition 199$ got you frame and FORKS didn't matter the company. Getting a S in m homes with pitchforks for $200 and it actually cost more if you wanted the frame painted it was more or less Chrome all the time some people in Hamel know what I'm talking about but I don't know guys all you young uns the other future BMX don't let us old saltdogs down
Thankfully I found this video I order snafu forks that have 20mm off set and then realized I was running 30mm offset before and was worried they wouldn’t fit but this video explained it and not I realize what offset it.
This is pretty much a fool-proof guide to understanding the relation between the headtube angle and the fork's offset. If someone doesn't get it, it's because they don't want to get it. Call me weird but my headtube at 76.5° and my fork being an odyssey r15 makes for a beautifully twitchy and squirrely steer
Thank you man!! I did my absolute best with this one and trying to explain things in an understandable way. The whole concept and relationship between the offset and trail is inherently confusing to the point that I wasn’t sure if I even understood it. Haha
You just CONTRADICTED (at the end), what the evidence supposedly shows: MORE offset - LESS trail = twitchier ride. LESS offset-MORE trail = stable ride. Make up your mind! :-)
i went from a 35mm offset fork to a R32 fork, and i drastically felt the difference, it was way more twitchy (then i switched from a 20.8 frame to a 21 so this balanced the things). Still, after seeing this video i don't understand well why on the internet everyone says that in mountain bikes a longer offset is less stable.......
Thank's Brant, I always thought it was the angle of my bars that caused this effect. Now I know why each of my bikes handle differently from each other.
This is something I have always had a problem with. 22 years of riding and getting the front wheel and stem all lined up straight. I run PITCHFORKS and a custom front wheel Relic hub and laced to a envy rim and Profile stem and Relic bars. I was told by a very good source that no FORKS are dead on point there is always a little off by like maybe 2 hairs
In researching for this video too I found out that head tube angles on frames aren't every perfect either and vary a degree one way or the other as well
There's a flaw with this. This is all based on the bike staying still, and perpendicular to the ground, and doesn't take leaning into a turn into consideration. If you ride in a straight line, and turn your bars 45°, the lack of trail on short offset/steep ha is more likely to force your bars to 90°, sending you otb. You almost always lean into a turn. The best way to really feel that difference is when trying to fakie slider. With more trail your bike will want to turn, less trail the front wheel is more likely to slide.
All depends what you ride the most if you ride dirt all the time get some R32 forks if your more of a ramp guy R25 forks or some primo or animal or fiend Process IC forks for street riding \m/
@@mikejoned7148 I had some pitchforks back in 1999 and broke them never had the money to get fbm parts and standard bykes forks that why i sed odyssey fork they have lifetime warranty on breaking and bending \m/
The pictures really help! Great video. Now I understand why a steeper headtube makes a bike easier to nose wheelie.
Perfect! Exactly what I was going for! Thanks for the feedback!!!
The best explanation of trail that I have ever heard.
Thank you!!!! I put work into understanding it for this one
You would make a great teacher! Thanks for taking your time to make the videos you do, I learn a lot and enjoy them.
Thank you!! It’s funny because I always said I didn’t want to be a teacher. Now I kind of am
Brant this was awesome. I love how you dive in and find stuff out that barely anyone knows. Really great video dude!
Thanks so much!! It was definitely a deep one to get into. I expected it to be easy honestly. Haha
you're a real source of information, brant! ty 👍
Hey thank you! I’m here to help!
This was a huge help! Thanks for putting this together. I was trying to figure out how to get the steering response I wanted and this made so much sense!
Thank you for leaving the feedback! It lets me know I did a good job and that the video is actually useful for people!
Hope to see you in the comments more often
Spent an hour trying to figure it out but you explained everything perfectly, thanks lol
Always happy to help!! It took me hours and hours and hours just to understand it myself before making this
Excellent video. I understand a lot of bmx geometry but didn't understand trail enough and now I do.
Thanks a ton man i appreciate this so much. Im newly back to BMX after a six year hiatus and trying to figure out all the crazy stuff about bikes. I follow you on insta and it brought me hear. To smart I'm sure you will have this channel blown up . Thanks man
Thanks a lot for the kind words man! Really glad this one helped you out and thanks for following on Instagram!
Great video, physics and geometry brought together nicely, appreciate the info!
Thank you for being here to watch it!
Love all your "diving deep" videos))!!!! Just started a bmx... all these help soooooo much!! Thank you Brant!
Always happy to help!!! Thanks for watching
Your best video! I had read and enjoyed that same article on Odyssey’s website. I like how you added the circles showing tire travel to the pictures while posting them on your video. You show full merit to the article and then more. Great comprehensive explanation narrative!
Very cool man. I found my ideal front end is a 75.25 ht angle with a 32mm offset fork. Keeps it responsive but stable.
Great explanation and research, really helpful! Thanks for putting together that article with photos and your amazing way of explaining such stuff! 😊
@Brant_Moore I have a Kink Whip and I just ordered a set of the F-25s cause I ride street with brakes and a little bit of park. What size stem would be good for me and could you recommend one? Please and thank you
would a steep ht angle with long fork offset, and mellow ht angle with short fork offset act differently? or does it just kinda even out and feel about the same?
In theory it could feel about the same but then there's the aspect of turning that I'm not really sure about
Please make a video about differences in bmx like street and fork and vert
Hmmmm that could be an idea
What are the holes on the bottom of the forks for by where you put the nut on the front tire?????
This was genius! I was looking for a new fork and now I know I want that offset, thanks man!
Always happy to help!! Hopefully it helps enough to earn your subscription
@Brant_Moore God damn right, you should have more subscribers already compared to some others who put up pure crap content and have loads.
Thanks man! I try my best and maybe one day things will get there
How do you think this effects fakies? I feel like I notice instability the most during fast fakies and fakie carves. Do you think trail still stabilizes and self straightens during a fakie or does it flip and do the opposite because the motion is backwards? If it does the opposite maybe a steep fork would give a smoother fakie with a added benefit of a tighter carve. Thoughts?
Hmmmm, im sure it does but my brain cant compute how right now. haha I would think mellow would always be more controlled but not 100% sure
Great video, really interesting. BMX geometry is crazy.
It really is crazy. I never would’ve imagined.
Thanks for watching man!
why am I seeing a lot of street bikes with 30mm fork offset is that a happy medium for street park and dirt? such as the subrosa letum
Thanks for the always informative and well explained videos man. I subbed!
Heyyy, thank you!! I do my best!
Very interesting. I’m thinking of getting a WTP Reason 2021, and I was wondering if its apparently extreme geometry would make it a bad choice for a beginner, what do you think? It has a 76 degrees HTA and 15mm fork offset.
When you’re first learning you haven’t developed a sense of what you like yet or what tricks you’ll do, so most likely you’ll just ride it no problem and learn just as well as on any other geometry.
Then once you start to learn some tricks and get better you’ll slowly start to figure out what geometry you like and that’s when you start changing things or even realize that you want to keep it the same
@@Brant_Moore agreed 👍
This helped me figure out that my forks are most likely bent and I need new ones, my bike is for trails...With a little street, sometimes I got pegs on it and I have a bash guard.
You really help me in your videos
That’s so great to hear!! Thank you for being here and letting me know
The rake, trail, and offset destabilizes rotation for flatland tricks. It would nice to find a geometry where flatland can be done with a bike still somewhat capable of other styles of riding.
As a mountain biker, i never wouldve thought of taking my bmx on the trail lol. Just started givin bmx a try. 35year old, wish i started as a kid.
Do rear hubs like unsealed and sealed bmx hubs. And would it be possible to keep the hub shell from the front hub and put in sealed bearings and a new axle?
I would highly doubt it would work without some heavy modification of the hub shell.
For the time, effort, and money involved, it would probably be more worth it to buy even the cheapest sealed hub you can find.
@@Brant_Moore thats what i was thinking because i looked at a hub i had apart and its just like any unsealed bike it has cups to hold the balls so it wouldnt fit sealed bearings but i wanted to see if there was any cheap way to do it thanks
@@Brant_Moore and btw i love your intro music
No problem man, happy to help and thank you!
Thanks for watching as well!
This is the harsh reality of box you get what you pay for instead of trying to make something into something that was not made to be that way. I am a old man in a young men's sport but have seen a lot of changes in bmx over the 2 decades I have been in this bmx life. Get this Huffy bikes made a strong come back and everyone wanted one the TL88 Todd Lyons signature frame. Unfortunately most of you don't have any clue who this bmx savage is. Bmx in the late 90s early 2000. I feel was the best time and it was lit. Dan's competition 199$ got you frame and FORKS didn't matter the company. Getting a S in m homes with pitchforks for $200 and it actually cost more if you wanted the frame painted it was more or less Chrome all the time some people in Hamel know what I'm talking about but I don't know guys all you young uns the other future BMX don't let us old saltdogs down
Damn, dude. You spent some time studying for this one! 😲
Had to do it! It was so interesting and confusing that I had to dig until I understood it, even if I wasn’t going to end up making a video about it
@@Brant_Moore Glad you did! 👍
Thank you man!
@@Brant_Moore Ur welcome.
Very helpful, thank you!
Thanks dude. Love your videos.
Thank you for being here to watch them!
Very insightful! Great job man!!
Thanks man!! This one was definitely more effort than most!
@@Brant_Moore oh yeah man! I made a frame for my senior project way back when and learning all the angles and everything was insane.
Woah you did? Thats awesome!!
Great Job Boss.
I have a 21 top tube and its a bit to bog for me but i love the frame would using a r15 be better for me?
The fork will shorten your wheel base but won’t make the bars feel closer
@@Brant_Moore will that result in easier hops?
Thankfully I found this video I order snafu forks that have 20mm off set and then realized I was running 30mm offset before and was worried they wouldn’t fit but this video explained it and not I realize what offset it.
Okay I need your help I’m buying the 2021 sunday Aaron Ross complete but I want a black fork for it what fork do I buy
Another Sunday or Odyssey fork! Make sure they have a lifetime warranty. Both come in black
@Brant_Moore thanks
Good video man. Great job.
This is pretty much a fool-proof guide to understanding the relation between the headtube angle and the fork's offset. If someone doesn't get it, it's because they don't want to get it. Call me weird but my headtube at 76.5° and my fork being an odyssey r15 makes for a beautifully twitchy and squirrely steer
Thank you man!! I did my absolute best with this one and trying to explain things in an understandable way. The whole concept and relationship between the offset and trail is inherently confusing to the point that I wasn’t sure if I even understood it. Haha
Thanks this really helped
Always happy to help!!
Awesome info! Thanks man!
Thank you for being here to watch it!!
Great Video
Thank you! I spent literally all day on it. haha
wow very good video
Thank you! A lot of time and thought went into this one
You just CONTRADICTED (at the end), what the evidence supposedly shows: MORE offset - LESS trail = twitchier ride. LESS offset-MORE trail = stable ride. Make up your mind! :-)
🤓
i went from a 35mm offset fork to a R32 fork, and i drastically felt the difference, it was way more twitchy (then i switched from a 20.8 frame to a 21 so this balanced the things). Still, after seeing this video i don't understand well why on the internet everyone says that in mountain bikes a longer offset is less stable.......
Thank's Brant, I always thought it was the angle of my bars that caused this effect. Now I know why each of my bikes handle differently from each other.
Happy to help any time I can! Thanks for being here to watch!
I actually understood that 😱
This is something I have always had a problem with. 22 years of riding and getting the front wheel and stem all lined up straight. I run PITCHFORKS and a custom front wheel Relic hub and laced to a envy rim and Profile stem and Relic bars. I was told by a very good source that no FORKS are dead on point there is always a little off by like maybe 2 hairs
In researching for this video too I found out that head tube angles on frames aren't every perfect either and vary a degree one way or the other as well
@@Brant_Moore thanks for the time 🚵
Anytime man! Always here to help and chat about bmx
Makes sense
Great vid new sub
There's a flaw with this. This is all based on the bike staying still, and perpendicular to the ground, and doesn't take leaning into a turn into consideration. If you ride in a straight line, and turn your bars 45°, the lack of trail on short offset/steep ha is more likely to force your bars to 90°, sending you otb. You almost always lean into a turn. The best way to really feel that difference is when trying to fakie slider. With more trail your bike will want to turn, less trail the front wheel is more likely to slide.
75.75 HT + 15mm forks and i mostly ride street but i also ride trails its perfectly stable, not crazy at all. people over exaggerate
Everyone is different. Stable in the trails to you, might be highly reactive and twitchy to someone else.
should have gotten into how your bars come around faster with less rake and how you can spin 360 faster too
shorter wheelbase = faster rotation because everything is more centralized
Thank you I just bent my drop outs and need new forks
All depends what you ride the most if you ride dirt all the time get some R32 forks if your more of a ramp guy R25 forks or some primo or animal or fiend Process IC forks for street riding \m/
FBM CB4 ARE THE BEST ALONG SIDE WITH THE PITCHFORKS AND STANDARD. ANYTHING ELSE IF YOU RIDE HARD SNAPPING FORKS IS NO FUN
@@mikejoned7148 I had some pitchforks back in 1999 and broke them never had the money to get fbm parts and standard bykes forks that why i sed odyssey fork they have lifetime warranty on breaking and bending \m/
Fair enough
Got pitchforks on my bike
#Thankyou
SCIENCE!!! Kangaroos can not jump backwards. Doesn't really any barring to this, but atleast you can say ya learned something else.
Trying to explain forks: well yes, but actually no
Haha then make a video and explain it better. This was done with days of research to make sure it was correct.