DOCKSIDE IS GONE!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2024
- Well, it is a new format.
WANNA WATCH CEDH GAMEPLAY?
I have a youtube channel called cEDH TV gameplay where I upload all my gameplay videos. Here is a link for you: / @cedhtvgameplay3974
SUPPORT ME
If you wish to support my channel by purchasing cards from TCGplayer using this affiliate link helps cEDH TV grow.
tinyurl.com/TC...
I have a Patreon: www.patreon.co...
A lot of people are asking me about proxies. Here is a good website I got some of mine from.
customizedmtg....
DISCORD
Come and hangout with other cEDH players at my Discord: / discord
Here you can write to me if you wanna say something. Like "hi can I join in on the live stream games?"
#mtgcommander #cedh #edhgameplay #magicthegathering
A Rocco player finally won a tournament and the RC took that personally
hahahaha! That is funny.
I love how people were saying ban Rhystic Study to speed up the meta and the rules committee just said "hold my beer"
Rules Committee isn't WotC.
rip yuled lotus
yooooou'led low tus
Soulja boy no longer cranking it :-//////
RC really saw the cEDH rules committee starting to form and were like “ah shucks guess we got to get back to regulating the format again before we get fired”
Maybe. They've said though that they try to keen bans to an absolute minimum. They aren't trying to regulate like wotc. If stuff is off, the playgroup should usually do it.
Given that commander is still not an officially supported competitive format by WotC , these bans can be side stepped by any event organizer. That is why it is so important to understand the nuances of each event’s set of rules and they are diverse enough to impact play and rule interpretation.
See, I think the RC *wants* a separation. Like, what other bans could have pushed the separation of cEDH and EDH more effectively than this? CEDH players are also the main group that really crunches numbers and actively advocates for ban list changes (ie, asking the RC to actually do their JOB). They'd rather ban cards based off of their own personal feelings and unban them if they can profit off of them (like with Servant). Absolutely awful
@@maxmazza2987 except most TOs for cEDH align themselves with the banlist that is published by WoTC via the RC. If they wanted to create a separation, they could've done so. But they did not
So livid. You know The One Ring ban will be coming within the next year if not sooner. The format was made to play cards you could not play in other formats only to get banned out of it. You couldn't write a better joke if you tried.
I think cedhtv and someone from the spike feeders should be considered when cedh splinters into its own rule committee
I thought Jim from Spike Feeders was in the rules committee?
Playing with power would be another could member to add
@@kalamander8563 i believe so but i think theres a voting system as well, meaning if its a 4/2 split his representation for cedh wont mean shit. Because the cag is specifically for fair gameplay not competitive
No he is on the advisory group.
haha thank you for that.
We didn't want a separate ban list and we laughed at the RC. Now we're fucked.
Now I want a cEDH rules committee twice as bad.
This feels like a line in the sand for cEDH to become a separate format.
I agree, that said the format will likely fragment as multiple people have different ideas about how to regulate it, in my country we had like 3 variants of duel commander, now only one survives, but it took years to consolidate. It's a shame to be honest, I can understand Nadu, but the others are just cards for cedh that is a format where powerful stuff is used. To be honest without fast mana, the variety of cedh will be reduced significantly as all the expensive commanders will become harder to play... Two and Three cmc commanders will get stronger without lotus, higher cmc ones will vanish pretty much.
Plus if we want to talk about money, Lion's Eye diamond + Breech are untouched by the ban and Dockside costs what 1/5th of diamond in real money?
U nailed it
MY HEART MONS. MY HEART!!!!!!!
Drastically change is an understatement :D
Yeah. I should have screamed out of my mind. I still kinda am. But I have to do it quite or the neighbors will be mad at me.
@@cedhtv I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream moments here :D
A friens bought Jeweled Lotus last week.
A friend played Jeweled Lotus over the week-end.
A friend now removes Jeweled lotusout of his deck trying not to think about the 100$ spent.....
Anyone who spends 100 dollars on cardboard is a fool.
@@Bryan-T nobody ever accused MTG players of being smart with their money
@@Bryan-T yeah but at least they own the cards, not like a service like mtgo or arena were its digital.
They banned dockside!
Gasp
They banned jeweled lotus!
Double gasp
They banned mana crypt!
Triple gasp!
They banned Nadu!
....
[Everyone liked that]
My biggest gripe about this ban is that Blue was basically untouched while 50% of the reason why you'd want to be in Red is banned. Rakdos and Gruul are now relegated to shit-tier and it makes Boros even worse than it already is now with these bans(strictly talking about the 2 color combinations only), all the while Blue still gets to enjoy Rhystic/Remora. And oh, who could forget Thassa's Oracle????
If the RC were looking at it at a perspective as to which cards are explosive for casual play, then yes it makes sense (but less so for Dockside as it's explosiveness depends on the powerlevel of the pod). However, in a casual setting, being able to draw 2-3 extra cards off of a Rhystic/Remora sets you up for explosive turns down the line. So, why was blue untouched???
I can already hear people saying "well, you can play around a Rhystic/Remora by paying the 1 or not feeding the fish". Well sure, while you also allow the blue player to get ahead of his/her gameplan by being able to play his cards without any drawbacks.
Losing Crypt will hurt, as virtually almost all cEDH decks run the card, JLo less so. But banning Dockside significantly nerfs non-blue decks in the format.
Nadu can go away from the format. F*** that Bird!
As I said in the comments of ComedIan's video:
This is the most effective proverbial middle finger the rules committe couldve possibly given the cedh community today.
Why?
@@testthewest123 they want to slow the game down, which is not what cedh wants. while casual its fine, in cedh you want to win fast
More like the creation of a dividing line that has already existed between casual and competitive. I do expect cEDH to start separating away from Commander. The only question is whether Wizards is going to start their own supported competitive format.
@@shadow-.-9764 If I understand correctly, cEDH just wants to play the strongest possible commander decks. Ofcourse the faster the deck is, usually the more stronger. But in the end its about playing the best deck, not the fastest.
@@xZyrux the best are the fastest, rogh/sci for example.
On the communication part:
WOTC to RC: 'What about this card?' Shows Jeweled Lotus.
RC members: 'Why would you do this? please, PLEASE do not print this card'
WOTC: Hits the go button on the printers.
True story...
Yeah that is kinda how it happend.
WOTC: We love your feedback RC thank you.
RC: BAN!
WOTC: ..... emmmm
@@cedhtv other than that, it's pretty usual to see cards getting banned in the format they were made to, it just feels weird to see that happening in commander because it's so rare to see bannings for the format in the first place
The real issue is that Wizards has sent a strong message to players that cards will not have any value. In a TCG. This will have a lot of people going "I'm gonna buy proxies."
I've already put an order in. I'm not engaging with Wizards anymore, just going to pirate their game (and I'm a whale).
Exactly. I’m selling my collection, buying a motorcycle and fancy guitars, and if I find a new deck I want to play, I’m printing it myself. Call me a Dockside extortionist, cause it’s turning me into a pirate. Been playing since 94, but this is the straw.
bro cry more
@@henkdachief I'm not crying, I'm saying I'm no longer feeding them cash. :D
@@Rundvelt you are coping about your scummy behaviour, just stop playing instead of crying in the comments and pirating the cards get it
@@henkdachief ROFL since when was not feeding a garbage company all of your cash considered 'scummy behavior' little fella?
Forget the ban news, the cEDH TV announcement is incredible data! Very excited to see what comes of this as the sample size increases.
What really upsets me isn't even that I bought my one and only mana crypt less than a month ago and haven't even had the chance to play the deck I have put it in yet, but that they have banned these all at once, what a kick in the nuts. should have sold all my docksides instead of keeping 2 and the 5 copies of jeweled lotus are going to be a nice bookmarks I suppose ...
haha yeah I am happy I sold my dockside. But My mana crypts is going to be sad. You know magic isen't suposed to be a Stock market in my opinion.
Play them anyway. Part of the commander identity is being able to do absurd things at equally absurd rates. If people give you shit for utilizing Rule 0, they can get bent.
@@cedhtvyeah totally agree it shouldn't be a stock market, I have bought all my cards for playing and recently sold some of my collection and reduced the number of decks in my possession as due to time, I wasn't able to play my decks frequently and didn't want the cards to collect dust, but when over the years you try to improve your decks and get them to a more competitive level it hurts when all your efforts and sacrifices you have done to invest in a hobby are wiped away like that, but hey this is how it goes and quite frankly excited to see how we will adapt our decks with these changes and how the game will shape around this going forward :)
@@cedhtv this is why I’ll never stop promoting proxies. I can buy 2 full cedh decks from any number of reliable proxy printing companies with any art I want for like $150 and my money is going to an independent small business instead of Hasbro
Keep it in your deck bro. Ignore this stupid and nonsensical ban announcement
I hope we don't forget how we got reprints this year of literally every single card banned. In fact crypt was pushed down our throat on special guest slots, chase cards, standard packs and if I am not wrong announced in the new mystery boosters. And wow what do you know after it's milked suddenly banned just like ragavan in modern. Completely not wizards just some bros in their basement regulating the golden goose...
Goodbye fast games, hello stax meta.
I’ll admit I was vehemently against a cEDH RC, but after this, I’m entirely open to it
RIP red commander cEDH
Honestly.. thinking on it. This is the time when we really need the voices of our community(mons :D!!!) to help speak for us. WE desperately need cedh to be separated from regular edh banlists.
Not me in the middle of brewing a deck completely based around dockside 😅
Dockside ban feels real bad for CEDH
Why? It is OP, it has been done to death, we can move on?
Still more than enough busted things to do in cEDH, no?
@@testthewest123 Because it's fun, dockside was fun. It enabled a lot of niche decks and combos in interesting ways.
@@jaydonthewarrior636yep decks like godo and Magda take the biggest hits by far
@@testthewest123 I think there was a big problem with Dockside loops but it was also one of the few cards in the format that let seat 4 come back
well every second deck was brewed around dockside i dont feel sorry for you
Nadu is good! The other 3... are inflammatory. That said, I always liked Dockside's design, even if the execution was bad. I wouldn't mind, say, a correctly costed Dockside that gives you 0/1 plants = opponent's creatures or a black dockside that lets you mill = to the number of cards in opponent's graveyard, etc. Even tapped treasures on an appropriately costed Dockside would have been less obscene.
Dockside should enter with a finality counter, so it can't be flickered/reanimated. It would still be incredibly strong but not as abusable.
@@TheMattmaticpretty sure you can still flicker a creature with a finality counter
@@otterfire4712 Oh, right. I thought it worked like unearth, which is what I would like to see - "If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead". That's what the evoke elementals should have had IMO, then Grief and Fury could have stayed legal in Modern too.
Two formats:
EDH casual
CEDH period
If this occurs, then EDH surely gets more bans, like free counters spells. All card that get a lot of power without any cost o a reduccion cost like FoN, deflecting swap etx
I dont think cedh is dead but i think a lot of bad things come from this. The discrepancy between 1st and 4th seat is gonna kncrease by a lot, red decks are so much worse, and certain decks are totally unplayable. I think personally this is the time to separate formats and have people who actually play cedh to make a banlist
Your not alone to say this.
I personally disagree.
I think all of these bans are healthy for cEDH 👍
@@project_swift they just banned 3 staples of the format. without these staples the format is just not the same. games will be a lot more one sided.
@@project_swift I think that Dockside is arguable to being ok to ban same with JLo, but mana crypt is too much imo
Godo in shambles 🙃
I would be less mad if they just straight up said it was a cedh ban. Saying this was to "slow down casual games" is such a bs reason when they said before rule 0 should be the power balancing rule for casual edh.
Nah, I saw it happen when Jeweled Lotus was released. We had a bunch of casuals open Jeweled Lotus and add it to their deck because it was a new card.
If they were lucky to get it in their opening hand and powered out their 6 mana commander in a game with little to no interaction.
Then that player just wins.
I hate Jeweled Lotus. But I can understand the casual reasoning.
My main problem with the banlist is the it is scary to think where do they stop. Why not ban rhystic and mystics? Why not all the tutors? Where do you draw the lines of bans?
This is a really good point. This ban feels strange. Like why not stop at mana crypt. Like why not ban Sol Ring.
@@cedhtvbecause they can't make precons illegal
@cedhtv they explained that banning Sol Ring is too big of an identity shift (as if banning Crypt and Jeweled Lotus aren't already).
This is just the latest of the RC being the RC. Hypocrites at best and blatantly showing they dont care for the format at their worst. This sadly looks to be a mix of both
@@matthewmckenna2476 MY PRECON THAT HAS A DOCKSIDE, IS IN FACT ILLEGAL NOW
@@cedhtv Because it's everywhere, this ban isn't for the game, it's to allow for new chase cards that are "like" it to be printed in future sets.
RIP to everyone who owns these cards.
My friend is completely flattened by this... No one was expecting this, except Nadu
@@Lemon_Sage9999 At least Nadu was a cheap card compared to the other 3. Conversely it was a potential commander though, so it could potentially be even more expensive than the other 3 if people had their entire decks invalidated.
Gambling is not profitable and compulsive gamblers are victims who are being exploited by predators who make a SHIT LOAD of money from their misery. Stop supporting gambling scams like buying magic cards if you actually feel bad for the people who are getting fucked. Game pieces shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars nor should they be an investment portfolio, anyone who says otherwise either owns the slot machine or wants to pump up the bag they're holding to make someone else's problem and finally get their money back from their "investment"
Dude I'm so mad, I paid $2 for a dockside proxy. I'm so mad rn
The part of them saying they are working on things to help with the rule zero in cassual games and then banning cards coz ppl dont have rule zero talks at those tables are wild to me. So so wild. When i play cassual at home we dont play with fast mana, we talk about what we have and dont have in the decks. That all ppl need to do, talk a bit. Sad day for my grenzo.
Thank you for the awesome vid and your thoughs on it big M.
nobody wants to have some lengthy discussion half the players dont even get the point of, thats so so wild to me how people think like this
@@henkdachief yeah thats why i mainly play cedh or with an established group. But if the rc pushes on the rule zero talk and disregard from it when they take mandate about banning cards i think that is lazy, as is the point of not wanting to taking 2 min to talk to 3 other persons if you are going to play a cassual game. Also not wanting to take those few minutes with random ppl is realy selfish and will not get you back into more games.
One thing I will mention about Jeweled Lotus is that it is no longer selling booster boxes. There are a bunch in the secondary market but Wizards doesn't make money off the card being valuable. My crackpot theory on why it takes so long for these cards to be banned is Wizard tells the Commander committee they need more time to move more product. If Man Crypt or Jeweled Lotus were banned products that contain them wouldn't sell nearly as much. If we did wee bans based on need for the format, Nadu would've been Banned a while ago, same with the other two. My main worry going forward is seeing Commander continuously devolve, more and more cards are banned based on this weird desire to keep the format casual.
I just hope for a CEDH banlist at this point.
Time for cedh to officially declare itself as it's own format with its own banlist.
this should become a movement and all cedh players should support it to flick the finger at wizards
Stupid idea. The whole point of cedh is to push edh to its limit.
If you want a new format then make a new format, but, by definition, CEDH will always be a part of EDH
@@jamesk3612lmao okay boomer
@@jamesk3612 Winnie Hut CEDH could be a new format
Cedh IS EDH. what would you call the absolute best game of your new format, if not cedh, and what would be casual cedh? 😅
Who's next? The moxen? Ancient tomb?
At this point all bets are off. Anything can happen.
Sol Ring (a card not designed with commander in mind and stronger than Jeweled Lotus AND an auto-include in 99.99% of decks) didn't get banned, but Jeweled Lotus, a card only playable outside of commander in an incredibly specific single legacy deck and made specifically FOR commander got banned. The lack of internal logic is real.
It's very simple - banning Sol Ring would make just about every precon illegal right out of the box. Defeating the fundamental point of those products. It's not a balancing issue, or even a "format identity" issue. It's a logistics issue.
They directly explained why they did not ban Sol Ring.
@@mufasafalldown8401 They gave an explanation they were comfortable telling the public. Doesn't mean it's the only or even the most important explanation. Also, as soon as we talk about the "identity" of the format, we start to get real murky as it enters very subjective territory.
@@s.dalner7245 there was nothing cryptic about it. They said that Sol Ring fits their own criteria for being banned but they are not comfortable doing so because it is "iconic". Meaning it's in every single precon. They also correctly stated that removing some of the other fast mana makes sol ring more acceptable.
Edit: i wasnt arguing with you I was letting the OP know that they addressed his points pretty clearly.
F this. I won't be using real cards anymore, I just lost like 2k on that ban alone haha and that leaves a precedent that they may ban cards used in cEDH so I will try to unload my stapples before someone in the RC wakes up on the incorrect side of the bed
haha yeah I am happy I sold my dockside. But My mana crypts is going to be sad. You know magic isen't suposed to be a Stock market in my opinion.
I stopped buying real cards a while ago. I refuse to pay 100$ for a card and in a few months it tanks to nothing. No thanks. All cards are only worth a dollar to me now.... its just a card.
@@cedhtv We get it's not an investment, but it is a TCG. Which means trading. If the cards constantly shift value, why bother engaging with it?
scummy behaviour dont justify it
Crypt is the only surprise, tbh.
They made their money then shafted the players! Ridiculous!
The C in cedh stands for Dockside
No that is the D.
Competitive Elder Dockside highlander.
We need 2 banlists...
While I'm sad this is going to make a lot of fringe cedh decks unplayable, I am excited to see what new brews come out of this announcement. Maybe I'm lucky but my local meta has a good handle on casual vs high power/cedh. Those cards never showed up in my casual games so this feels unnecessary to me but maybe I'm in the minority.
new life to the format im all for it
Could you do an agreement between cedh channels in youtube that keep jeweled lotus, mana crypt and dockside running? Cedh will slow down and it was funny how a single dockside can start a war in the pile.
Rip cEDH, we had fun
I'm happy to see Dockside out. But I also want Bowmasters, Rhystic, and Rograkh banned. Bowmasters creates awful play patterns around its targeting and causing collateral damage but not actually punishing those drawing. Rhystic just sticks around too long, but maybe it'll be slowed down by the loss of some fast mana (probably not). Rograkh turns on too many things (amber, interaction, sac effects).
I played Turbo Etali in cEDH, literally lost the 3 best ramps, and the main combo piece for most of the combos, so probably that deck is dead...
Yeah damn Etali will suffer from this.
Technically Jeweled Lotus can still be used in Legacy and Vintage with Doubling Cube, but those decks are so bad that they might as well not exist.
hahahaha
Mate you have stuff that can animate enchantments so you literally can turn battle of wits into a creature and swing for game, so yeah you can always pull the it can still be used but we both know that's semantics and not the same thing as the card will never be used as it is meant to be as outside of animating it then they are both just rocks that do nothing but take up card slots.
Though i will say if you make a Battle of Wits deck to animate it and win with it as your creature then that would be on theme of it being a battle of wits and more so if you happen to start reaching the realm of competitive viability since the deck will have blue in it lol
Of course dockside win rate is high bc it’s a WINCON 😂
Yeah I can only imagine Thassa's Oracle win/play ratio.
Glad that you started to create new data to understand better the cards that we are playing.
Personaly I'm very upset by the bannings, and for now I will be focusing on another stuff to avoid my frustration goes out of control Ps. I really enjoy watching your videos, they are what the cedh community needs: an objective point of view about this lovely format combined with awesome games!!!
Nadu is one big misprint. Don't care about Jeweled Lotus. Nor do have I ever cared for Mana Crypt. But my Dockside? The one I sniped out of that double masters pack I bought just because. The dockside I used to reanimate out of opponents graveyards, giving my struggling squirrels cedh deck access to big mana in the late game? The card I think would have banned is Humility. I've only "played" against humility once, and i'll never get over it. But if you have a mana vault then your probably making money right now.
Thanks for you reasonable, and statistically backed take on the bans. I'm curious as to how many other decks will rise and fall because of this change. My poor Jin-gitaxias deck probably will have to pick up 2 new control pieces to replace lotus and crypt with.
I think the thing that the Jeweled Lotus changes the most, is that in casual it will b harder to play higher cmc Commanders. Lotus really helped enable them. Not that it affects things to that extent in cedh.
Amazing data work man, love your approach to the game. Keep it up :)
Thank you. Yeah I was planning on showcasing it once I got 200 games atleast but it came good in hand for this.
I wonder how much of the market it wipes out. check listings from yesterday to a week from today, see how much money we all lost
Nothing better than mons emergency thumbnail 😂 you're amazing mons, always enjoy your thoughts on the format, thanks!
we can finally play artifact hate without risking being outsped by dockside.
sisay has mana dork wins. she is probably need do adjust. i am happy you agree with my position.
i also love that enchantress decks might have a chance finally.
I agree. There have been a lot of new commanders that feed dockside. And I think that is sad they they get weaker as they run the risk of kingmaking.
I think more important than the bans themselves is the information they convey with this announcement.
This announcement highlights the impact of Sheldon's absence after his passing (RIP) in maintaining a philosophy within the format.
Almost everything was free to use because he believed in the common sense of each playgroup, and thus left the 'Rule Zero' for power level control.
In other words, he didn’t impose anything.
Now Wizards declares a regulation and establishes 'Sol Ring' as an identity of the format, giving up the autonomy that 'Rule Zero' provided, and even seeks to introduce silver-bordered cards into the format.
What’s different now is the absence of Sheldon to maintain the previous state of analysis regarding cards and the format.
I thought the same
Common sense never worked unless you played with the same 3 friends forever, if you go to a lgs, one player plays a worsen precon (aka bought a precon and sold the expensive cards), the other is playing a staple tribal, the other is playing a borderline cedh deck, the other is playing a "all cards art must have a chair" tribal, there's no consensus on a table with 4 random people, the format needs to be regulated
@@P3rvenc That's the point behind a rules 0 conversation, and no number of bans will fix that. There will always be really powerful decks, and there will always been less powerful decks. There isn't a way of stopping power-level disparity beyond banning every card in the format, or talking to people before you play the game.
@@jaydonthewarrior636 This!
Yuriko looks a good option now
haha YES! She dosen't care one bit about mana crypt actully. Quite funny.
Terrible bans, 3/4 of them. No more red, everyone must play blue now, no gruul, no Naya, none of that
dockside didn't clutched that hard lol if it did red would had better placements.
Underworld breach still exists
Red without blue takes a huge hit. It's a buff to blue as breach/brain freeze is the easiest breach line.
@sharkmanyt4431 yeah, for Grixis piles lol
@@fluffylegend294 I’m happy to see Nadu go tho
So why isnt one ring in there? lol
it costs mana, that's why!
Think outside the format on what this does to investor's or collector's that have attended the Cons and waited the artists line to pay for their multiple copies of Jeweled Lotus to be signed by the artist. The value effect alone will make a lot of fans bitter.
I would have preferred to see those card put on the restricted list.
Not touching Thassa’s Oracle or Demonic Consultation over what they actually banned is such a weird choice
So that means commander masters prices drop as well right???
yeah it should.
They only did this because cEDH players started making rumors about splitting off.
Every king flexes his muscles to tighten his grip moments before he loses his power.
This isn’t going to go well for them.
You really think so? I don't think they care or think much about us.
I’m just done playing now
The RC is absolutely BRAINDEAD
Fuck em we need a new RC
best bans ever. they make bans for the most players and not give a crap about cedh
@@DaxRaider Wrong. "Most players" use Rule zero to self-regulate fast mana. You are right that they dgaf about the cEDH game, but it isn't the ignorant way of dismissal, it's an arrogant and spiteful dismissal of power players AS A WHOLE and it's an ignorant dismissal of their internal ruleset. It's complete BS and you know it
Nah this is fine.
Yeah, let's have 2h games now.
I’m calling olivia booger dicks is behind this lmao she gets salty when someone ramps with a natures lore
Soul ring is nowhere near the tier of those other three.
Dockside can blinked. Jeweled lotus makes a turn 1 commander.
Mana Cyrpt is soul ring for 0 mana, straight upgrade.
Nadu is nadu.
Mono color decks (and everything commander centric) took a huge hit, while value engines such as rhystic study and cards that prevent archetypes from existing (OBM) are still there. Idk in which world their bans promote diversity as stated in their document.
I doubt many will follow the ban. Especially with the monetary value associated. Infact this could be a great opportunity to diverge and just play whatever
I'm strictly proxying at this point, cEDH and regular commander. I was already close and this banwave did it for me. No fucking chance I'm buying expensive cards to have them banned when theres TONS of other cards that could be or should be banned as well.
My groups aren't. Hell, we even allow the entire banlist to be played at our tables. What's the point of playing EDH when you can't carry out the cornerstone marketing strategy of it: doing absurd things
Remember that is not *just* the high cost of the banned cards but the *ASTRONOMICAL* cost of finding suitable replacements for a cedh deck: now you have *no chance* without spending big on Mox Diamond, Grim Monolith, Gaia's Cradle, etc. Basically this either makes the format proxy only or just for rich people.
My guess is that this will definitively resurrect the cedh rules committee in a hurry specially because of Dockside.
@@dimitriidtotally agree, this ban is so lopsided. They should have been consistent and banned a lot more cards.
"Dockside Extortionist is ubiquitous to the format as much as Sol Ring!"
... uh, no. Not even close. If that were true, it would've been reprinted in every single commander product printed since then. But it hasn't been. I'm glad to see the lot of these cards gone.
You're the goat! Coming in clutch to help the community. Figure it out while we mourn.
time to split the groups 100%
Love seeing the software behind the stats. Nice.
Truly. Just despicable. Anyone involved with the RC I will now just see in disgust. CEDH for sure needs its own ban list
This a thing to be celebrated! Finally the metagame can break the chains of turbo vs anti turbo, it makes other decks have a realistic chance and make commander be about the commanders again. Not around "does this comander let me play dockside?"
so true i saw a review for some recent set for cedh and every second card they picked to talk about had something to do with dockside, if you took a shot whenever they mentioned dockside you would probably die, it was so lame
It think turbo is going to be less affecterd, and instead it’s the mirdange decks (and the commander centric decks) the ones that will suffer (Tivit, Godo, Etali, Malcolm, Sisay, Korvold, etc. ). Basically, decks like Rod/si that thrive with low mana and can push out wins before the midrange and control decks finish setting up.
Perfect. Now I wanna see sol ring, smothering tithe, rhystic study, esper sentinel, seed born muse, and the free spell series gone. Is that unlikely, yea but never thought I’d see dockside gone either
CEDH NEEDS ITS OWN BANLIST
Now I’m worried about Rhystic, Mystic, Esper sentinel and the one ring
Well if they can ban these cards all bets are off. Anything can happen.
@@cedhtv exactly
next ban list incoming
@@davidarbour2683 he’ll na
Fuck, and I recently bought all of them, in nice versions.
God forbid Red do ANYTHING
Nadu ban feels almost like Golos ban again. Cedh, or just the casual community paying for the crimes of players who can't have the tiniest amount of restraint when deck building.
THIS is why we need a separate cEDH rules committee
Except the one who stepped up is kind of braindead lol
I think this is what's gonna happen
This is a power-level ban, period.
Causal players don't, and shouldn't play these cards.
If they are, that's their choice, and it's something that should be discussed with the other players in their friend group.
This ban targets cEDH, but its not a ban that I think cEDH players wanted in spite of this.
I totally agree. This is why I am still suprised about all of this. The only actaull Casual ban here is Nadu.
These bans are meant to kill cEDH
Honestly casual players don’t play these card (besides nadu) because they are $80 to $100 or more. Would it be great to have, sure, but casual players usually don’t shell out that much unless it’s a key piece to their deck, not generic rock/ramp.
Okay but hear it out from a casual Friday night game store player. You don’t get to have rule zero conversations all the time and especially with people who you’ll probably never play against again. I think a ban list should reflect the average player’s intentions. If people want to decide to play cards far too broken for the average player, then that’s all good. These cEDH people can play in their own pod. But you’re always going to have that one person who pulls up to a game store with a “casual” deck but then has stones worth a hundred+ dollars apiece. And that sucks playing against that.
@@snakeman4games383
I can understand this argument, and have seen it before, but few things.
A. Ironically these bans happened in the same post that announced an App to help people with the rule zero conversation, which is more ironic then anything.
B. there is such a thing as reputation. People who do this will build up a negative reputation, and people will stop playing with them, or play better decks against them.
Korvold which was basically a Dockside deck, took a major hit. Any deck with red in its color identity for that matter. But my Korvold, that’s just a huge hit. cEDH needs its own ban list now and ASAP.
Was watching the Mind Sculptors podcast on "What's the deal with the EDH ban list" literally yesterday. Ian states it would be a travesty if Dockside was banned and Orcish Bowmasters stay. Yet, here we are, in that reality today.
Have been building Bjorna/Wernog (Will/Lucas) lately. The deck is completely dead without Dockside. I am incredibly sad! Chthonian Nightmare is one of my favourite cards and it's useless now.
So sad. I was waiting for your video all day, just to know your thoughts about Mana Crypt, because are not straight replacement for it, and you say "we don't need to talk about mana crypt" 😥
I had alredy said so much about it. ANd the video was alredy so long. Ask me anything what do you wanna know?
I’m newer to MTG but CEDH has been my main focus since I started. Is there anything stopping tournaments from allowing these cards anyways? For instance just like tournaments say “proxy friendly” can there be like an “unbanned for this tourney” list?
Any tournament can do what ever they want to do. If a cEDH touranemnt wanna allow these cards they can do it.
Jeweld lotus ( I have one but never played it in my sisay or korvold list, so does not really hit me that much) was a card made for commander, a chase card and they ban it.
What a joke.
Most of the time i play with a friend and we don't care about the bannings. We both got a crypt and a dockside and we still going to play them.
Yeah keep playing them. If you dissagree with the RC ignore them. Do your own thing.
It's not the RC's fault if WOTC designs cards that solely rely on a single format
@Rukalin yes it is their fault they make the bans loool without wizerds Magic would never be a thing. Not a hard concept
@@Rukalin It's they're fault for banning a card that ist Not Ban worthy. I dont Play jeweled Lotus myself but i got a solring in both Decks, sol Ring is reusable, can be used multiple Times and with basically No restriction. Most of the time i prefer my opponent to have a jeweled Lotus rather than a sol Ring or mana Crypt often even some of the moxes.
They need to make 2 formats ... this was a huge mistake on their part
Going to build a three power-level Commander-equivalent format for my local shop.
Commander is too broad for two power levels, competitive and not competitive. A third, lower "battlecruiser" level is needed.
Sheldon would have never let this happen. RC knows that jeweled lotus and mana crypt has been used to sell packs for years now, good job RC you let wizards bait us into buying packs for higher power decks and now you're bending the knee so they can make parallel effects and charge us more.
So Jeweled Lotus is now actually worthless since it can only be used in Commander.
yes card worth 100$ is now a 10cent $
It's used in a legacy deck
Honestly I wish they would have communicated with the community about potentially banning a couple cards for a month to see how the format plays. If it's not fun then undo the changes. Because so many people sold their cards just for RC to potentially say "Just Kidding hehe". Idk I'm delusional in holding out hope tho://
While I must applaud the statistical sophistication of data representation, looking at win rates for cards appearing in a match could be misleading for power level of a card, especially when comparing to win rates of cards in different categories like wincon/ramp/draw/interaction.
Sure the win rate for sol ring is going to be less than dockside. Sol ring is played nearly without considering board state and is included in more decks. Dockside is a wincon in a lot of decks, or makes so much mana that it enables the wincon early meaning it will be sandbagged until the win is present.
I’m sure this is apparent to most and statistics like this aren’t the reason for the banning. Just good to keep in perspective when thinking toward the future of rating cards and looking at game statistics.
Noooooo! My Nadu package analysis 😢. Thanks for the video
If they taking my mono-red ramp, I demand enchantment removal in mono-red. The last few sets were difficult enough with the amount of must remove enchantments, now we got rooms and brambles.
Takes about $400 off the pricetag for getting into cEDH, which is nice for me because I'm trying to get my casual pod into it. We're okay with proxies but $1500/deck pricetags still scare them off a fair bit.
I’m sad I can’t play with my cards anymore but I’m happy to get to brewing new decks and modding old ones. Gonna be fun.
I AGREE! I think we are fine. I have played cEDH without all of those cards except mana crypt. And I still build cool decks.
I'm wondering why it has to be jeweled Lotus and Mana crypt since I always felt they give an opportunity to keep up with an early Sol Ring ... Smothering tithe and rhystic studies are far more impactful in Games i played
Ps. When are we getting sisay list update?
It initially hurt. So many decks resolve around dockside (chtonian nightmare lines felt so good!!). After playing around with decks that survive (rip korvold) it doesn't seem that crazy.