You say that three months is such a short amount of time for Nadu to be banned, when the truth is that the first game ever played with Nadu just finished and they thought it rude to ban the card while the game was still in progress!
I understand the reasons for the bans, but after years of inaction this has caught a lot of people off guard. Why now? What has happened to warrant the bans at this particular time? Dockside has been around for years as has jeweled lotus. Jeweled lotus is essentially a commander only card. You can’t sit on your hands for years and expect people to not end up upset when you finally do something
Yea, the timing is just really awkward with this one. Crypt, lotus and dockside have been with us for very long time, sure everyone knows these cards are problem, but no one expected they will get banned.
Perhaps they've wanted to ban them sooner, but weren't allowed to because sets containing these as chase cards were on shelves or in planning pretty much perpetually since 2021.
I personally think it's due to power creep issues cause like ramping to 5 mana to drop a 4/4 with trample isn't as bad as ramping to drop your big biddy goth mommy with ward discard your hand and do 10 jumping jacks
DONT BANK ON CARDBOARD HAVING ETERNAL VALUE. No matter how you look at it, spending hundreds on magic and expecting it to hold value is foolish. Buy stocks, gold or whatever.
@galaxyguy9873 a little bit, took awhile to save up for that card. The bans are probably best for the format. It sucks banning chase cards. Local stores are also going to take a loss.
I didn't spend money on any of these cards, and I still think it's dumb. I have a friend in my pod that has dockside, it's really not that annoying... I don't really get the crying over that card, there's more annoying cards out there. And I've never come across the other cards in play. Nobody is playing mana crypt in a casual play group. And if you're running that, everyone is probably aware and running similar power level decks so who cares. I just think it's weird for somebody to decide nobody is allowed to use fast mana even as a person who doesn't use it themselves. Let the players decide what's acceptable in their pods. Weird that they're forcing everyone to play slow. also, if the argument is to help new players. Idk how many new players are facing dockside, jeweled lotus, and mana crypt in their games. If they are, that's entirely on their pod IMO and not on the RC to stop.
That's always the cost of having anything though. If you put to much stake in the value of your cards your risk a banning or new strategy coming out that tanks the value of your cards. I'm happy about the bannings even though I own a dockside.
@Geblino The reason why I and many others are upset about the artifacts and dockside is because of competitive. Dockside was a staple in many, many decks. Kobold as a deck is canned. Basically any red deck without blue: canned. It's really upsetting to my community and disappointing.
Proxying was always the way to go honestly. Heck I bought and gave out proxy copies of Dockside and Mana Crypt to those I play with. The price of proxying is not even half the price of Dockside or Crypt before the ban lol. The biggest issue with this ban happening...any powerful chase card in future sets has a chance to be banned now. So why even bother buying the set or singles moving forward?
@@8Smoker8 no..? to the amount of players? I got the data from seeing real people talk about proxying more and more since I started playing in 2010. it's more acceptable than ever to do it in friend groups because people know how shit the games monetization is
it just finally killed the stupid argument of this card being fine cause just play a kill spell, there are far to many commanders that coming down turn 1 or 2 completely warp the game beyond repair especially if they cant be removed immediately
I love this for casual edh groups where you play with new or random people a lot like I do. One time someone told us his deck was a 4 and he planned to win with Barren Glory. He Thoracled us on t3. I feel it's so much easier to have the talk of, "we should house unban these" than forcing random people to take cards out or hating them out of games because they played them. I do hope for more bans like this soon.
Of all the cards banned, I feel Jeweled Lotus was the one they shouldn't have done. Yes, it's powerful, but no where near as powerful as the other three cards.
@@dashkatae it’s only powerful on turn 1-3 so less than 10% of games. And it usually puts a target on your back and the game evens out. Unnecessary in my opinion.
I disagree with Beezy when he says we should ban based on feelings. I do not mind these bans except Lotus. Lotus can only be used in commander and therefore it just cannot be played at all and is a waste of paper
These really feel like the RC taking a stance against wotc designing cards for commander, especially with Nadu. The competitive side of the format is so much more accessible and casual players can’t be blindsided anymore, so I’m stoked.
The competitive side of the format, cEDH, is the most proxy friendly scene. It ALREADY was accessible. All this ban did was neuter tier 2 cEDH decks and punish anyone who bought these cards.
Pay to win took a big hit today. Rule 0 only works sometimes. Sucks for people who invested a lot though. Turn two and three wins are such a wast of time.
I bought Dockside in the precon it came with. At the time, it was only $20 on the secondary market, and one of the playgroup at my LGS thought it was overhyped and wouldn't stay there. That feeling of "I made the right call" on picking up a card is one of the more unique aspects of this hobby. I'm sad to see my copy of Dockside leave my decks, but I guess "it was so good we had to ban it" is the ultimate "you made the right call" 😁
As a cEDH player, I'm kinda 50/50 on this set of bans. The dockside ban has the highest impact on the cEDH format by far. Sans-blue red decks (Dargo, Godo, Rocco etc.) are taking the heaviest hit and they were already underdogs in the format. This is very likely to drastically reduce format diversity with a big chunk of commanders losing a lot of viability. On the other hand, the Nadu ban was probably a net positive. The deck was definitely strong - not oppressively so, but it ate up too much time and caused a lot of tournament games to end in draws. As for Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus, they won't have a huge effect on the format (just reduces the probability of a super explosive start but they were relatively rare anyway). My condolences to all the people who invested money into these cards. Although maybe it'll be a good opportunity to pick them up cheap before cEDH players set up their own banlist and committee.
@@Supremo801 In casual you should be fine 😂 You still have Sol Ring, Jeska's Will, Urza's Saga for Sol Ring, Mana Geyser, Underworld Breach for the rituals etc. (most of these are already borderline too competitive anyway hehe)
Not me running over the card prices with this expectation xD It's so weird not to have rhystic on this type of banwave lol. I think mono white gets the heaviest hit no?
Very well thought out comment cedh definitely needs its own ban list. And yeah I could see that especially with them Banning dual Lotus where else are you supposed to play that card except for edh?
Cards like Nadu are a prime example of the hand holdy nature in contemporary MTG. The card's only downsides are that it's not free, and it's not an Emblem in your CZ. Cards not having drawbacks while also having egregious resource generation eliminates any legitimate strategic element the game would otherwise have.
@@thegreenmoon8823I hate when people say it’ll get confusing lol no it doesn’t. Mtg is a confusing game yet people play it and play it well don’t devalue our intelligence with the “confusing” argument
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
I don't own any of these cards but I don't really agree with most of these bans. Nadu had to go but jeweled lotus was literally designed for commander, crypt and extortionist have been existing for years without being a huge problem, the real problem is power creep ruining the game.
On the other hand, I own several of these cards (Crypt, Dockside), and love the bans. Fast mana generally just leads to runaway games, and Mana Crypt especially is the biggest example of paying to win in commander.
The "designed for commander" doesn't really fly as a reason to keep it. Wotc designing things exclusively for commander and not being in charge of the format has always been silly.
@@crisgon9552 thassa's oracle is exclusively problematic in cEDH and doesn't do any of the things these cards were banned for, it doesn't skip you ahead three turns when its in your opening hand. and if you're going to ban that combo ban demonic consultation, thassa's oracle is still a perfectly fair wincon for self-mill or big draw decks not running the combo.
After thinking about it, I just don't know who these bans were for. Casual players will rule 0 out any stuff they don't like in their local groups. Salty casuals will just choose not to play against stuff they dislike. Competitive players play the format because they want access to all the most powerful, broken stuff and know exactly what they are signing up for. Yet, competitive players like our favorite tourney goers are literally bound by these rules. So who benefits from the changes? No one...?
I know far more people that are willing to rule 0 cards and strategies out than people who are willing to rule 0 cards in (with the notable exception of some silver border cards). So in my humble opinion I think trying to avoid bans unless necessary is better than banning cards because they are unfun or have non deterministic combos
It benefits me 😁 I play casually pl: 5-8. I dont have a regular play group. You see a lot of fast mana there and its super lame everytime it happens. Also sucks that not everyone is (was 😁) willing to spend 200 dollars on cardboard
Rule Committee "People should be able to police themselves and rule 0 out any problematic cards". Also rules committee "How about we ban two random pieces of fast mana and leave the rest up. Oh the one ring, underworld breach and lions eye? Nah they're good."
Enablers, not win conditions. I’m not arguing in favor or against any of these bans, I’m just explaining the rationale. There will always be a best win condition. The cards banned here allow you to win easier or faster.
Thassas is every blue win condition. All this does is remove non blue cedh from competing. No more winota, so red white is demolished. Thassa should be the first ban
@@patrickwoodlands4086 thassa's oracle does not do any of the things they banned these cards for doing. it does not create immediate non-games by skipping one player ahead several turns, its a win condition that's only problematic in cedh. and i agree demonic consultation is what should go if either were to be banned, thassa's oracle is a fair enough card on its own.
Nadu surprised me the least. Crypt was just in the format so long it surprised me the most. Lotus and Dockside have had eyes on them since they were printed. Nadu was the most “Simic value engine” of all of them. It was similar play patterns to Paradox Engine, with non deterministic difficult to interact with and execute combos. That said, I agree that eyes wouldn’t have been as much on the bird if he hadn’t been the focus of so much conversation in Modern.
TOR and dockside are the 2 cards i would've love to have seen gone. doesn't feel like they're done banning with this philosophy tbh, especially mentioning "banning these cards makes the format less homogenous" - i can only feel the reaper floating towards one ring's door
It’s going to be hard on MTG players and collectors as a whole. When rules can change at any time, then cards value becomes purely speculative. This decision is going to have a big ripple effect on the market. If they wanted to blow the market, that’s the way to do it😢
As someone who has dealt with a lot of people in stores who during rule 0 say they only have decks with mana crypt, im glad this reverses the burden. Groups can rule 0 powerful cards in just like they can rule 0 them out. Your playgroup can keep them! Edit: i do feel bad for people who spent $$$ on these, i had a friend who bought pdox engine the week before it was banned
@@qwormuli77 It's the reverse for me. My friends are down for whatever, but randoms at stores take the banlist for gospel and do not entertain rule 0'ing stuff back in.
I feel like this is a borderline legal issue with Jeweled Lotus. WOTC shouldn't be allowed to create chase cards to sell sets that are only playable in one format (I know they are legal in vintage and legacy but you're never going to use them without a commander) and then ban them a year later. I understand it's the rules committee decision but I don't think cards should be printed if banning them in one format makes them effectively unplayable. Opening a pack with a Jeweled Lotus now is basically getting one less card in your pack.
i mean this happens very often in card games in general and has been happening in MtG forever. Skullclamp was instantly banned, Lurrus was very expensive before it was banned in every single format (including legacy and vintage), Oko and Uro both banned in standard pretty quickly, This concept is not new at all and these are worse examples since WotC actually made this cards and banned themselves. Remember Nexus of Fate and how bad issues with that card was due to it being promo only? I own a mana crypt and I don't think this is an issue at all, and it actually shows that the committee is an somewhat individual entity that is not afraid to ban cards just because they are staples.
@BDtetra your examples of bannings are bad examples as those cards are still playable in other formats. Jeweled lotus was only playable in the commander format...and was printed solely to drive up sales of the set it was released in. Banning it makes the card worthless and the set itself will lose value as well now that the chase card no longer exists.
@BDtetra I agree they've made multiple similar mistakes in the past. The difference here is that Jeweled Lotus was an intentionally busted card that was designed for commander in a commander specific set. Lurrus, oko, and the rest were busted, but to my recollection they weren't the center pieces of their sets that were advertised as the big chase cards for a hyper specific format. It feels like false advertising knowing a busted card can be released and then banned a year later and basically turned into a paper weight. What stops them from printing an even more busted version and making their money selling boxes before pulling the plug again?
I feel in doing this It is only going to cause more headaches and controversy. People who've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars blinging out decks are not willing to just throw those cards away and they're also not willing to take a huge loss by selling them for pennies on the dollar. What I fear is going to happen is people are not going to take them out of their decks and therefore are not going to be able to play at lgs's which is sad. The thing that no one is talking about is the local game stores who are going to lose tons of their customer base. Like myself who enjoy playing higher powered magic. I will not spend another dollar on Magic. The gathering I have listed my entire collection and I will strictly proxy going forward.
Players are faced with a choice: play by the rules of the format or don't play with most people. What you are saying is that most of the people at an LGS all run Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus in their decks and this is the only reason they play the game. That suddenly the inability to cast a Commander 2-3 turns ahead of time 10% of the the games is the only reason their decks work. And that those people are all going to quit now that they can't do that. I mean...good riddance, if that was the only thing keeping you playing.
Earlier this summer I traded in two Mana Crypts because I cracked them in packs, and I didn’t want to be that guy playing that card casually. I made a great choice!
Banning a card after you used it to sell a popular set is absurd. Bannings like this, make me fear being a collector and a player myself. I’ve spent a lot of money on some pieces of cardboard to play in my playgroup and now $100 card of mine is worth nothing because I can’t play with it. And this was done by the rules committee not Hasbro themselves. I’m about to rule zero the rules committee in our playgroup.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? You don’t have to go along with their bans, and they even explicitly encourage you to discuss with your playgroup what you think are the most fun ways to play the game, and then just play it like that.
good you should fear being a collector if you're collecting with the sole intent to make money on your collection. these aren't baseball cards, magic is a game and the game comes first not the financial value of individual cards you could have proxied if you didn't want to spend all that money but your playgroup still wanted to run the cards.
I know initially we wil hear a lot of people complaining because those voices get amplified, generally I’m guessing most players are happy with these changes
I think personally the banning feels bad for lotus and crypt because somehow the one ring still exists despite it also deserving a ban for the same reasons as jeweled lotus imo
Ya one ring not being easily reset by copies 2,3,4 in edh is huge. Also one of the few ways mono red can keep up with green,blue, black in terms of non exile based draw
The reasoning behind Lotus and Crypt applies itself to Sol Ring. The difference is Sol Ring is $0.75 whereas the other two were costed out of a lot of players hands. Kinda wish the RC was upfront and said "we're banning these because resellers and aftermarket" which is far more likely considering that turn 1 sol ring and signet is also 5 mana on turn 2. A friend of mine literally saw thousands of dollars worth of inventory get wiped away yesterday, and now I'm worried that if a card winds up too expensive on the aftermarket it will go away; Wheel of Fortune, Mox Diamond, and Gaea's Cradle might be on the chopping block now not because of their effect on games but the fact they're costed out. That said, a way to get Sol Ring banned is to jack up the aftermarket price to over $100.
Im honestly fine with this change. Theres stinging pains because I have each of these cards (except the damn bird) but I feel this will make a healthier format overall. I am pouring one out for the cEDH players. After the nuke drops I hope they can recover and I'm interested to see what happens next
In competitive formats, you adapt. cEDH players should theoretically be the least upset as they can and should be able to adapt, especially since what they lost are not whole decks but fast mana pieces that simply enable broken starts. If you're only there to win games in blowouts because you drew the most fast mana, you're not much of a competitor.
I'm genuinely impressed the RC had the backbone to do this. Still more that needs to go and plenty that could be unbanned but this is damn good progress
Just finished my Korvold CEDH deck not too long ago. 3 of the 4 cards were full art variants and now, not only are those cards dead on arrival but also my commander. Of course, i could rule 0 but that doesn't change the fact that i overspent on now banned cards that outside of my friend groups i can't play them. It's pretty frustrating that after making special sets for these cards and charging a load of money for those boosters, they turn around and drop this. Even explicitly saying they won't ban sol ring is just a cop out for every precon ever made to still have something going for them and a justification. Jeweled lotus was one of the only reasons 5 drop commanders were even playable. Mana crypt should had been in every precon like sol ring since you either win the game or die to the coin flip. Dockside I understand but even then when he dropped, there were times for other players to interact with the cards that made him good to begin with. Maybe it's the CEDH brain in me yapping and complaining, but it stings in a weirdly bad way.
@@Arctanis-vt3hlyeah just buy 100 dollar cards or 400 boxes to get the chase card then lose all that money for nothing. Yes this will hit wotc bottom line as I spend 400 a month to feed the fam all the cards including the commons and uncommon for fun building but never again
Nitpicking Nerds is the only channel/people I've seen so far be intellectually honest in regard to the "precon legality" issue. It is SO easy to arbitrarily declare a deck be legal if unmodified, as they've already done in the past. It's also SO easy to find ONE CARD to put in where that sol ring was.
@@windstar120025 my wording isn't perfect but if you can't get the context not my fault. A member of the rc tweeted(just weeks ago) we won't ban stuff for Yada Yada reasons. I'm ok w the bans but why go back on what was said?
I might just be in an oblivious bubble, but I've never had bad experiences with any of these cards. People know how strong they are and only bring them to suitable tables. Its a fundamental part of the format to have a rule 0 conversation to match power level as well as you can. Banning these cards just nerfs cEDH, high power EDH and some random janky decks that need a Crypt for thematic reasons.
?????? Definitely an oblivious bubble, friend. I was gonna type a long response, but i genuinely don't know what commander games you're playing that these cards didn't immediately springboard a player into a highly favorable or even a winning position.
I doesn't nerf them, it just makes play more competitive and interesting. You get a Crypt and you're probably going to win, so you didn't win because of skill, you won because you got a great opening hand.
Same! Crypt isn't even a guaranteed win, same as sol ring. Often brings more targeted attacks. Cedh maybe could use the shake up but... this is bad all around right now.
I run into these (especially crypt and DE) in stores all the time. Rule 0 can go both ways. I def prefer a random having to ask if they can add mana crypt versus having to ask them to take it out (if they have something to sub)
What about free counter spells or free spells in general then? I think that there's an argument to be made that if the only criteria to be met in order to cast a spell is to control your commander in a format that revolves around doing so should also be questioned
Nah let me explain why this ban has killed my faith in the RC. They banned three of these cards because they were too fast, they banned Nadu because it made the games.... too slow? They're trying to force a play style and I don't like that. If we are banning cards that are "too homogenous" (which was their reasoning behind Golos, which was also stupid) or because they lead to "explosive turns" let me name a few other cards that would fit into those criteria Rhystic study Smothering Tithe Craterhoof Behemoth Moonshaker cavalry Triumph of the Hordes Literally almost any ramp spell Every single tutor Dark ritual The moxes (the ones that ARE legal, anyway) Gaeas Cradle Torment of Hailfire Exsanguinate Even the common printed Gray Merchant of Asphodel COUNTERSPELLS IN GENERAL Ancient Tomb. Omniscience Enter the infinite And the list goes on. Every single one of these cards can either make an explosive turn, Lead to a huge advantage, or are in a majority of the decks that they are in the colors of. At what point does the banning draw the line? Not even to mention the financial aspect of all three of these cards being the "chase card" of many sets throughout recent years, such as 2XM, LCI, commander legends, commander masters, mystery boosters 1 AND 2, as well as probably a few others slipping my mind right now. This is a HUGE middle finger to anyone who bought sealed product and opened those cards that Wizards WANTED you to chase so they could sell more product. The ban and their reasoning are totally out of touch. They want to push the "rule zero" conversation so much but then do stuff like this to try and Dictate how people can and can't play. Some cards are LEGIT issues that need to be banned, primeval titan is one, hullbreacher is another, Leopold for SURE, they CAN make the game either completely unwinnable or unfun, but cards like this that are basically required in a whole subsection of the format, printed specifically as chase cards in recent sets FOR the format, should have been left alone.
3 lotus, 3 crypts, and a dockside, deleting about 2g's thanks wizards, i know going forward, don't buy anything, just proxy. Sweet. saved me crazy amount of money for the future. Gonna sell my duals, those are too fast and good.
I think a big thing is most of these cards are really expensive. In my decks I don't own them and in my typical playgroups I never saw these played as we are not going to pay 100+ dollars for some cardboard. I think that is why some people are getting really upset as well. They spent hundreds of dollars on cards they cannot use at any given table.
The irony of this as I was picking apart a few of my decks to pull cards out to make a Nadu deck, now I've got a handful of partially deconstructed decks and no Nadu deck
@@mufasafalldown8401 I'm just a "kitchen table" magic player, I don't follow anything really. We adhere to any bans, but I don't really keep up with the news. I also already had Nadu from a trade so I didn't buy any cards; I just had Nadu laying around and the cards to support a deck and was seeing what I could put together.
The thing about rule 0 is I think it’s easier to allow an exception than agree on a ban. Almost every week I play against a unique lineup from a pool of around 40 commander players. With that many players it is really hard to rule 0 bans but very easy to rule 0 exceptions. No one wants to sit down at the table and tell people what they can’t play and organizing that many people to get an official band list together is unrealistic and overly time consuming. It also puts added friction on players joining the group or learning Magic. Now they have to be informed of secondary LGS or pod bannings. There is also the question of what to do if they don’t adhere to or agree with the ban? I think it just leads to socially awkward situations. It’s much easier to have a conversation saying “I’m playing this banned card. Is that OK?”. Most of the time people will be fine with it and also it can give an indication of the table about the power level of your deck. I think these bans are super great for the health of the format. Appreciate the RC for taking action.
I think it’s notable that it will feel bad for everyone who already had these expensive cards in their decks, but that without reprints, these card prices would only keep climbing and there would come a day where Wizards would ban the cards eventually, and people would lose even more money. So, there’s no fortunate time for this to happen, but sooner is better than later. That being said, I think it would be awesome if Wizards announced bans far ahead of time. This way, prices drop slower while those who know they need the money back can sell their cards asap, and still get most value back. For example, a 3 month warning would allow people to still play some last games with their cards or prepare for the devastation to the value. Most significantly, people with commanders getting banned can sell off the cards in the deck before they lose their value, too. There were definitely some cards that Nadu affected directly, like Shuko, which jumped up by about 1000% from before Nadu was leaked to when MH3 first came out. Now the card will likely plummet in value even though it wasn’t directly banned.
As catharsis for my greatest pull ever from the one box of Commander Legends I could afford back when that was released, being Jewelled Lotus, let me just say: Fuck the Rules Committee. I cede the remainder of my time.
Iirc it was said forever ago that if a precon is illegal in edh that it is still legal if it's an unmodified precon. This rule came up when one of the Ikoria precons had 2 copies of a single card
There is a financial aspect that the RC is probably not allowed to comment on. If a must-play card costs $100+, you cannot even reliably reprint it in a precon because people would try to flip them. It would take several, subsequent reprinting of these mana generators on tons of precons to have them be a reasonable price. You would essentially be dooming these precons to skyrocket in price (Look at Endless Punishment or the Eldrazi precons) and not allowing new players to acquire them. The sentiment seems to be that if a card makes every deck better AND it costs a fortune to add to a deck, then ban it. Other staples like Tutors, Gaea's Cradle, or Dark Ritual are color-constrained, so they don't go in EVERY deck. Following this logic you can explain the Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt bans
I can understand Nadu, as that can keep you waiting for your turn for 10 minutes, but the other 3 are just fine. And if you ban these cards then you can have the same argument for a Sol Ring or a Rhystic Study / Smothering Tithe or Ancient Tomb... And every CEDH's deck has become illegal. I can forsee a format split. A card like Mana Crypt is something I actually need in decks to be able to still play my slow expensive commanders to have a chance against the low mana cost Commanders.
But everyone gets to play Mana Crypt, so it's an illusion thinking that you have a chance just because you're playing Mana Crypt. If they are playing it too, the net effect is zero.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl I don't play Mana Crypt in decks that have cheap commanders, I just don't need it. But if I need to wait for turn 6 to play my non-green Commander I want all the fast mana I can get!
This is ridiculous, how can they ban jeweled lotus. It's only a commander card and it's worthless now. They screwed players. These were chase cards of fairly recent sets.
For real. I’d be pissed. Luckily I sold mine off last year as my play group isn’t super sweaty but people just lost 100’s of dollars. That card is going to crash in value like ive never seen befire
@@sir_quirkus7206True. I have one Jeweled Lotus and 2x Docksides. Not a fortune but still pretty tough. Dockside as well as Jeweled Lotus are now like 20€ here in Germany when I looked it up today. I can live with that but if you just pulled a Mana Crypt from the Ixalan set that must be devasdating.
I feel bad for my wife, she almost cried when she saw the announcement on her feed. For my birthday (September 3rd), she bought me a Jeweled Lotus and a Mana Crypt (I already had a Dockside Extortionist) for my high power goblins deck. I play with two groups, one where we play very high power and CEDH decks and the other where we play really casual stuff. I actually told her last night how excited I was to play with my higher power group this Friday because I have off work and it will be the first time I've played with the group since she got me my lotus and crypt. She was so upset when she heard the news, way more upset than I was, although the more I stew on it...
my take as a mostly CEDH player: these bans made competitive worse most likely and do nothing for casual. NADU: Ban is actually fine - its not a problem in CEDh but its new and the play pattern is really bad, so fine to see it go. Dockside: This is the card the Format is shaped around at the moment - its like brainstorm in legacy. While it is very powerfull, its also a great tool for less powerfull decks to get up to speed to play with the S tier Decks - S tier decks are so fast that they do not need dockside - they still play it, cause its good, but there are other decks that needed it to be competitive in the first place: First of all, there are only like 10 cards in the whole color red that are good enough in commander, so Dockside was the incentive for a lot of decks to play red and created new archetypes just by existing. It also created some decks where you actually where able to play your commander (crazy in a format called commander) It also enabeled a lot of decks that where more control oriented or grindy - So the fast mana from dockside actually often times allowed games to be longer. For Casual that ban doesnt do much since rule zero exist, and people who ignore it will now use one of the following: mana vault, ancient tomb, gaes cradle, moxes... the list goes on. Lotus: this thing like Dockside gave many t2 Decks a chance. Godo, Urza, Daretti, Korvold, Sisay. It is there to balance the downside of mono color commanders with faster acces to said commanders and also is a great card in a format where you want to see people casting anything over 5 mana. Crypt: the most irrational ban. they say it themself that sol ring rivals this card. so the right decission is not to ban this but to make it into a staple in commander precons so everybody has one - with banning only a few mana rocks, the games where someone has an explosive start will most likely ones where their opponent did not - so instead of everybody being fast, most likely only one player is and gets a free win -- thats not balance it actually made it worse I would say the signs these bannings give are very dangerous. First of all it seems like they try to force a format in which games are not only long but also even more coinflippy than a singleton format already is. They fear cards that are strong AND expensive even though the only reason for that is WotC's bad reprint policy - Dockside could be in every red precon, lotus in every precon! They did it with sol ring, they can do it again - i came to commander because its a vintage format and i want to play powerfull stuff - i also want stability in the card pool without being forced to buy the "newest toys" every 3 month. It was a community format that gave you a reason to play with the cool stuff in your binder. So what will be the applications of this bans. A lot of people will proxy even more now. CEDH will not change too much just like a third of the decks got worse while the top ones got better. Turn 2 wins are still as likeley as they ever where. Casual douchebags that want to pub stomp change their crypt and lotus to a cradle and vault and still do that. Who benefits from this? Not CEDH, not casual EDH, not Wizards, not investors.
This is why getting a group of friends to play is so much better. Banning cards that they've been pushing recently just feels bad for people who got those cards.
I haven't been super active since Nadu came out but everyone from my playgroup discord reacted as if his ban was well timed. Remember it isn't just card draw but also dumping lands from _your library directly into play._ Apparently a typical game against a decent+ Nadu deck would either be Nadu pumps out 25 lands and wins, or Nadu never sticks a landing. Also hearing a kid say '________ to the max' was not on my BINGO card.
Sol ring is a $1 card. It shouldn't be on any radar for being banned.... Every single player has access to it. It is a budget card. Since the beginning of the argument to have it banned its been eye rolling being it has always been easily accessible to every single person. Where as cards like Mana Crypt, a $100 card, is definitely not as accessible to the same amount of players.
The argument for banning sol ring is that it gives the player who has it in their opener a much lead, if every player had it when one player had it then it wouldn’t be such a huge problem
@@henrytorr5810 they also said they like when a player can get that fun factor of opening with some explosive mana. but they dont want it to be one into another. some games should have that "wow what a hand" but if you have a few of these cards in your deck you can just mul to five and still be explosive on most hands. it should be one in every 10 games that you get a fast hand. as why sol ring is to stay and the others are to go.
The Nadu ban makes sense when you think of it like this: lightning greaves is a very popular commander card. Even in the best of intentions if someone build Nadu most likely they would put lightning greaves in it and just that alone is enough to be grindy at casual tables. So the rule 0 conversation would have to be no Nadu and lightning greaves which is just awkward.
Well my collection just lost a ton a value 🙃. My group is in the power down step in this never ending cycle so this won’t affect most of my decks but it really hurts my binder😢😢.
I understand the sentiment there. I don’t “invest” in magic the gathering but I had cards that were worth money and know they’re worth much less. Just a bummer
Jeweled lotus is the worst one, literally a useless card everywhere else on purpose Mana crypt hurts the most, was the ultimate booster chase for years
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
@@henrytorr5810 They shouldnt, it less about the price and more similar to Sol ring. If they where gonna bann Mana crytpt they should have done so literally years ago.
@@henrytorr5810 Obviously they do it is the reason that they state sol ring doesn't get banned. If all cards got banned for unfun playpatters then this format would have a lot less decks
Banning in commander is a joke unless your competitive or your play group strictly adheres strictly to ban list just ask ahead of times likely as long ss everyones having fun they dont care if its banned.
Yeaaa banning jeweled lotus, which is a card for commander format ONLY, is such a low ball. Someone said The One Ring deserves to be banned more than the lotus and i 100% agree.
Counterpoint: Turboing out a problematic commander isn't particularly fun either. Lotus enabling T2 Tergrid, T3 Niv-Mizzet Parun, or T1 Hakbal just isn't fun.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? And why can’t they just both be banned, I’ve seen a lot of people saying that the one ring should have been banned instead of jeweled lotus, but why can’t they just both be banned???
I'm just salty about jeweled lotus, the rest can go. It's scummy to use this powerhouse of a ritual to sell sets then ban it in the only format it is legal in
Bruh this video seems so tone deaf. Like these bans resulted in thousands of dollars of value lost for players. Not sure thats something we want to continue to encourage for our community
I understand the pain. If WoTC knew these were on the chopping block and still used them as chase cards in recent sets (LCI etc.), that's disgraceful. If anyone on the RC or at WoTC sold these off beforehand, they're lucky the SEC doesn't apply here. However I don't think the vid was tone deaf, they're up late giving their snap opinions on it and just being honest. If you didn't like fast mana in the format then you'd approve of the bans. Many people, myself included, have these cards and will just take them out of decks or rule 0 them in. In the future less people will buy these pushed cards, saving them money. Unforch you and I are taking the hit right now. Sadge.
I’m glad that if Mana Crypt was going to get banned, that they went ahead and did it. I was legitimately going to buy one, probably this Friday. I’m currently building a deck with Gyruda companion where you can’t have odd mana value cards, aka no Sol Ring. For this reason, it was going to be my first deck with a Mana Crypt in it. I’m glad I didn’t buy it and THEN it got banned.
Guess now that Sheldon is gone, the rules committee is gonna help Hasbro run the game into the ground. In reality, who really plays commander at sanctioned events anyways...
I have 18 decks, and i own zero dockside, zero crypt, and zero lotus… however I have a nadu in my Ivy gleeful auras deck, and I don’t have any of the 0 attach cost artifacts I’m gonna pitch to my group if I can still use it.
I sold off my Mana Crypt and Dockside a good long time ago. My table ramped up its power over the first year we started, and then we've been dialing it back since then
You say that three months is such a short amount of time for Nadu to be banned, when the truth is that the first game ever played with Nadu just finished and they thought it rude to ban the card while the game was still in progress!
facts xD
Truuuuuue
@@fahrenheittcg6020 lmaoo
I understand the reasons for the bans, but after years of inaction this has caught a lot of people off guard. Why now? What has happened to warrant the bans at this particular time? Dockside has been around for years as has jeweled lotus. Jeweled lotus is essentially a commander only card. You can’t sit on your hands for years and expect people to not end up upset when you finally do something
I think Nadu, Winged Wisdom was the card that started it
Yea, the timing is just really awkward with this one. Crypt, lotus and dockside have been with us for very long time, sure everyone knows these cards are problem, but no one expected they will get banned.
Perhaps they've wanted to ban them sooner, but weren't allowed to because sets containing these as chase cards were on shelves or in planning pretty much perpetually since 2021.
I personally think it's due to power creep issues cause like ramping to 5 mana to drop a 4/4 with trample isn't as bad as ramping to drop your big biddy goth mommy with ward discard your hand and do 10 jumping jacks
Nadu happened. Warranted bans, blame WotC R&D.
I feel sad for one of my friends. They bought a foil Jeweled lotus not too long ago and I'm pretty sure he is broken inside now
I just lost thousands of dollars today womp womp
edit: I don't need financial advice imma be ok
DONT BANK ON CARDBOARD HAVING ETERNAL VALUE. No matter how you look at it, spending hundreds on magic and expecting it to hold value is foolish. Buy stocks, gold or whatever.
Keep,playing with them. Rules committee holds no weight or authority.
@@Lv5SuperTuba facts
@@gregory3499 my thoughts exactly
Banning Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt after Hasbro stuffed them in recent sets is a big FU to Hasbro.
I think it's a bigger fu to the people who spent money on these products. Oh well
Especially in a set called Commander Masters
@@jonfeltham4726I second this. I spent 125 on the jeweled lotus etched and now it’s worhtless
Hasbro don't control the EDH rules committee, it's a third party. They have representation but don't call the shots
No it’s a FU to the players who bought those sets for those cards. My collection has just taken a big hit.
Dang, RIP to all the collectors who went out and spent 100s of dollars on those fancy jeweled lotus treatments...
Bruh. I pulled my full art lotus from my magic con collector boosters last week. FUCK! XD
Just bought a mana crypt
boohoo?
@galaxyguy9873 a little bit, took awhile to save up for that card. The bans are probably best for the format. It sucks banning chase cards. Local stores are also going to take a loss.
Yall don’t play competitive EDH enough for it to matter. Rule 0 and enjoy your gamepiece.
They banned Mana Crypt because all the King Luke shorts were just too iconic. That's the only reason that makes any sense.
Who is king luke ?
Shoreeetttt
That's a good point
People who didn't spend $100s of dollars on these cards: Yay!
People who did spend $100s of dollars on these cards: 😢😢😢
I mean I own a Crypt, and good riddance.
I didn't spend money on any of these cards, and I still think it's dumb. I have a friend in my pod that has dockside, it's really not that annoying... I don't really get the crying over that card, there's more annoying cards out there. And I've never come across the other cards in play. Nobody is playing mana crypt in a casual play group. And if you're running that, everyone is probably aware and running similar power level decks so who cares.
I just think it's weird for somebody to decide nobody is allowed to use fast mana even as a person who doesn't use it themselves. Let the players decide what's acceptable in their pods. Weird that they're forcing everyone to play slow.
also, if the argument is to help new players. Idk how many new players are facing dockside, jeweled lotus, and mana crypt in their games. If they are, that's entirely on their pod IMO and not on the RC to stop.
That's always the cost of having anything though. If you put to much stake in the value of your cards your risk a banning or new strategy coming out that tanks the value of your cards. I'm happy about the bannings even though I own a dockside.
Didn't spend tons of money
These shouldn't be banned except dockside in cedh.
@Geblino The reason why I and many others are upset about the artifacts and dockside is because of competitive. Dockside was a staple in many, many decks. Kobold as a deck is canned. Basically any red deck without blue: canned. It's really upsetting to my community and disappointing.
Perfect timing. Finally opened my Commander Masters collector booster from Festival in a Box. Pulled a foil full art Jeweled Lotus...
My condolences
In years.....maybe unbanned It......maybe
Play it anyway. The RC shouldn't dictate how you have fun.
I just pulled a full art foil one from mine yesterday! haha, what a bunch of shit...
Play it anyway dude, fu Hasbro!
I think people will now just start proxying because they can't even invest into chase cards anymore. I think that's a good thing.
Proxying was always the way to go honestly. Heck I bought and gave out proxy copies of Dockside and Mana Crypt to those I play with. The price of proxying is not even half the price of Dockside or Crypt before the ban lol. The biggest issue with this ban happening...any powerful chase card in future sets has a chance to be banned now. So why even bother buying the set or singles moving forward?
Nothing will change.
@@8Smoker8 so dramatic lol. people have been proxying more and more the longer this game is alive
@@smeebus proportionally to the amount of cards printed? Where did you get the data?
@@8Smoker8 no..? to the amount of players? I got the data from seeing real people talk about proxying more and more since I started playing in 2010. it's more acceptable than ever to do it in friend groups because people know how shit the games monetization is
Sol Ring didnt get banned as its so "iconic" , not because Wotc needs to sell every precon out in the wild
I agree with the bans but that part was silly
I don’t think people are buying precon for the sol ring
@@ryanhebertson7457 I wish it were banned but it is tough to say that when nearly all the precons newbies buy, including duskmourn, include it.
It's also hard to justifying banning a card that is already in the NEXT set of precons that is likely already in production.
Dockside was in a precon, so that part of the argument is invalid
So a large part of Nadu's ban in constructed was due to the original design being changed with Commander in mind....only to be banned in Commander 😂
The designer admitted that it was a huge oversight not to think of 0 equip cost artifacts though.
So jeweled lotus caught the bullet for "Good potential commander but what if ward 2"
yeah crazy almost like the real problem is ward not the jeweled lotus.
No to mention lotho kills ward so wtf are they really looking for anymore
it just finally killed the stupid argument of this card being fine cause just play a kill spell, there are far to many commanders that coming down turn 1 or 2 completely warp the game beyond repair especially if they cant be removed immediately
@@neotamagachi Sounds like you should run a kill spell :)
I love this for casual edh groups where you play with new or random people a lot like I do. One time someone told us his deck was a 4 and he planned to win with Barren Glory. He Thoracled us on t3. I feel it's so much easier to have the talk of, "we should house unban these" than forcing random people to take cards out or hating them out of games because they played them. I do hope for more bans like this soon.
Of all the cards banned, I feel Jeweled Lotus was the one they shouldn't have done. Yes, it's powerful, but no where near as powerful as the other three cards.
@@dashkatae it’s only powerful on turn 1-3 so less than 10% of games. And it usually puts a target on your back and the game evens out. Unnecessary in my opinion.
@@benmeaige4306 agreed. It’s why I said it shouldn’t have been banned
It's the showrunner of the original commander set. Banning it in commander is a slap in the face to every commander player.
It buffs your Commander in a format called Commander . It’s only legal in Commander . It was the flagship card for multiple sets , it’s unbelievable
@@bobthor9647 literally who cares? it was bad for the format.
I disagree with Beezy when he says we should ban based on feelings. I do not mind these bans except Lotus. Lotus can only be used in commander and therefore it just cannot be played at all and is a waste of paper
time for wizards to print jeweled eye's diamond
Crypt's-Eye Lotus.
Moxside Extortionist
Don’t give them ideas
These really feel like the RC taking a stance against wotc designing cards for commander, especially with Nadu. The competitive side of the format is so much more accessible and casual players can’t be blindsided anymore, so I’m stoked.
This was a really well thought out observation, thanks for sharing
My thoughts exactly
The competitive side of the format, cEDH, is the most proxy friendly scene. It ALREADY was accessible. All this ban did was neuter tier 2 cEDH decks and punish anyone who bought these cards.
Pay to win took a big hit today. Rule 0 only works sometimes. Sucks for people who invested a lot though. Turn two and three wins are such a wast of time.
Easy explication to why stuff is being banned now and not before: Sheldon is gone.
That's what I was wondering, did he have any involvement in this before his passing
@@seanedgar164it’s been almost exactly one year since his passing. I don’t believe in coincidences
BS explanation.
Maybe. It’s more likely that Wizards wanted to sell through sets using these as chase rares first.
@@8Smoker8 lmao okay, that's just like, your opinion.
The Rules Committee sold their cards to Card Kingdom before they announced this - smart
That'd be so shitty but then people are shitty I guess
Do we have a source for this?
@@VexylObby Nope, people saw the sale numbers and made a conspiracy theory.
@@VexylObby It was revealed to me in a dream.
Outside of jokes, it's a very VERY actionable hunch.
Isn’t that just insider trading with a sharpie mustached onto it?
I bought Dockside in the precon it came with. At the time, it was only $20 on the secondary market, and one of the playgroup at my LGS thought it was overhyped and wouldn't stay there. That feeling of "I made the right call" on picking up a card is one of the more unique aspects of this hobby. I'm sad to see my copy of Dockside leave my decks, but I guess "it was so good we had to ban it" is the ultimate "you made the right call" 😁
Just play it anyways? Rule zero and friend pods shouldn't care
@@brianpendleton2674 i agree, a ban list being a thing in commander is so ironic that its just stupid.
Honestly at the rate you got it- and as long as you would have had it for- this is an objectively positive story
Dockside is the only fair ban. But it should have happened 2 years ago. Not now when it's staple and people have bought heavily into it.
As a cEDH player, I'm kinda 50/50 on this set of bans.
The dockside ban has the highest impact on the cEDH format by far. Sans-blue red decks (Dargo, Godo, Rocco etc.) are taking the heaviest hit and they were already underdogs in the format. This is very likely to drastically reduce format diversity with a big chunk of commanders losing a lot of viability.
On the other hand, the Nadu ban was probably a net positive. The deck was definitely strong - not oppressively so, but it ate up too much time and caused a lot of tournament games to end in draws.
As for Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus, they won't have a huge effect on the format (just reduces the probability of a super explosive start but they were relatively rare anyway). My condolences to all the people who invested money into these cards. Although maybe it'll be a good opportunity to pick them up cheap before cEDH players set up their own banlist and committee.
Yep just makes Blue more powerful, mana crypt, jeweled lotus and dockside just helped non blue catch up.
As a casual edh player, losing dockside is still a kick in the teeth. Its the best ramp i can get in mono red
@@Supremo801 In casual you should be fine 😂 You still have Sol Ring, Jeska's Will, Urza's Saga for Sol Ring, Mana Geyser, Underworld Breach for the rituals etc. (most of these are already borderline too competitive anyway hehe)
Not me running over the card prices with this expectation xD It's so weird not to have rhystic on this type of banwave lol. I think mono white gets the heaviest hit no?
Very well thought out comment cedh definitely needs its own ban list.
And yeah I could see that especially with them Banning dual Lotus where else are you supposed to play that card except for edh?
Cards like Nadu are a prime example of the hand holdy nature in contemporary MTG. The card's only downsides are that it's not free, and it's not an Emblem in your CZ.
Cards not having drawbacks while also having egregious resource generation eliminates any legitimate strategic element the game would otherwise have.
Cedh needs its own RC
I can see the argument for that but it would just get confusing, what needs to be done is people just need to talk
And im gonna laught even harder when they will make their own list and confirm theses card were never ok in casual
@@thegreenmoon8823 more confusing than the different ban lists for different formats already?
@@thegreenmoon8823I hate when people say it’ll get confusing lol no it doesn’t. Mtg is a confusing game yet people play it and play it well don’t devalue our intelligence with the “confusing” argument
Exactly. Or same RC different list
Game play wise sure but the value loss is huge. Having them as chase cards in recent sets is garbage.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
I don't own any of these cards but I don't really agree with most of these bans. Nadu had to go but jeweled lotus was literally designed for commander, crypt and extortionist have been existing for years without being a huge problem, the real problem is power creep ruining the game.
On the other hand, I own several of these cards (Crypt, Dockside), and love the bans.
Fast mana generally just leads to runaway games, and Mana Crypt especially is the biggest example of paying to win in commander.
These cards are the powercreep, WTF???
The "designed for commander" doesn't really fly as a reason to keep it. Wotc designing things exclusively for commander and not being in charge of the format has always been silly.
@dhantefranklin336 dude exactly. I don't think the mana rocks should have been banned but Dockside and Thoracle should have
@@crisgon9552 thassa's oracle is exclusively problematic in cEDH and doesn't do any of the things these cards were banned for, it doesn't skip you ahead three turns when its in your opening hand. and if you're going to ban that combo ban demonic consultation, thassa's oracle is still a perfectly fair wincon for self-mill or big draw decks not running the combo.
After thinking about it, I just don't know who these bans were for.
Casual players will rule 0 out any stuff they don't like in their local groups. Salty casuals will just choose not to play against stuff they dislike.
Competitive players play the format because they want access to all the most powerful, broken stuff and know exactly what they are signing up for. Yet, competitive players like our favorite tourney goers are literally bound by these rules.
So who benefits from the changes? No one...?
You overestimate the power of rule zero.
@@8Smoker8 if rule 0 doesnt work, than that's an admission that the format doesn't work.
I know far more people that are willing to rule 0 cards and strategies out than people who are willing to rule 0 cards in (with the notable exception of some silver border cards). So in my humble opinion I think trying to avoid bans unless necessary is better than banning cards because they are unfun or have non deterministic combos
@@Dstinct did I say "rule 0 doesn't work"? Also, your inference is wrong. Don't waste my time.
It benefits me 😁
I play casually pl: 5-8. I dont have a regular play group.
You see a lot of fast mana there and its super lame everytime it happens. Also sucks that not everyone is (was 😁) willing to spend 200 dollars on cardboard
This is definitely what pushes cedh to have its own banlist
@@thas4250 I sure hope so. Playing green now feels extremely necessary if you want to have consistent mana acceleration
I hope so as well.
They tried. I'm waiting to hear playtowin's emergency vid. Turbo meta is probably gone but so is the long game boogeyman
It already should. It's a separate format with a separate mindset.
Not in the bowmaster meta @@JohnAutopsy
I'm broken. I have the Crypt Masterpiece and Jeweled Lotus foil. Imma cry now.
I have 3 of the crypt masterpieces but I'd rather just take them out, I've kept so many bad hands because of them.
I feel ya.
Play whatever you want homie. F the rules committee. You dont have to obey what they say.
Rule Committee "People should be able to police themselves and rule 0 out any problematic cards". Also rules committee "How about we ban two random pieces of fast mana and leave the rest up. Oh the one ring, underworld breach and lions eye? Nah they're good."
Yeah, but the Rules committee bans cards that are actively causing problems in casual play.
People don't tend to put breach/LED loops in casual decks.
I see bans as necessary for strangers playing at LGS's or online. They're not for established playgroups.
@@simonteesdale9752 A re jeweled lotus and mana crypt in casual play though? I only see them in high power and up usually
Yeah if everyone in your playgroup is running these, I gotta imagine you'll rule 0 them back in
I mean what changes? RC still recommends to do whatever you want within your play group
I love the fact that a card that was specifically designed for commander and can be only played in commander (also brawl), got banned
Also be played in legacy and vintage… it’s useless in either of those formats
2 cards, dockside is unplayable in pretty much any format as well and was introduced in a commander precon
Don’t forget Hullbreacher (though that was a long time ago). And Golos… let’s be honest, it wasn’t for Standard. 😂
Sarcasm yes? What a ridiculous ban. Sell us a card and then ban it within a year? Even nadu... ban in modern made sense but not edh.
@@Lazydino59 Dockside can be played in other formats. Artifacts and enchantments exist in legacy formats.
I'm done with buying magic cards. Only proxies from now on.
Haha yep. I picture some of these proxy sites just rubbing their hands together at this announcement. :)
Based
I realize that the rules committee has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid f*cking decision I've elected to ignore it.
That's what rule 0 is for
Excellent reference
Perfection
5 Stages of grief. You’re at “denial”.
@@wolframflorian No we're no-oh...
This is frustrating due to the fact Wizards marketed a Commander only card when reprinting Mana Crypt and most certainly profited greatly from it.
The fact they banned these cards and not Thoracle is an absolute joke.
Enablers, not win conditions. I’m not arguing in favor or against any of these bans, I’m just explaining the rationale. There will always be a best win condition. The cards banned here allow you to win easier or faster.
@@crawdaddy2004 so if you’re not banning win conditions then ban enablers like demonic consultation. Absolutely stupid play pattern.
@@patrickwoodlands4086demonic consultation is part of the same win condition, it’s a shitty card if you’re not doing the combo
Thassas is every blue win condition. All this does is remove non blue cedh from competing. No more winota, so red white is demolished. Thassa should be the first ban
@@patrickwoodlands4086 thassa's oracle does not do any of the things they banned these cards for doing. it does not create immediate non-games by skipping one player ahead several turns, its a win condition that's only problematic in cedh. and i agree demonic consultation is what should go if either were to be banned, thassa's oracle is a fair enough card on its own.
Nadu surprised me the least. Crypt was just in the format so long it surprised me the most. Lotus and Dockside have had eyes on them since they were printed.
Nadu was the most “Simic value engine” of all of them. It was similar play patterns to Paradox Engine, with non deterministic difficult to interact with and execute combos.
That said, I agree that eyes wouldn’t have been as much on the bird if he hadn’t been the focus of so much conversation in Modern.
The One Ring deserves to be banned more so than jeweled Lotus or Mana Crypt. I say this because of how hard the One Ring is to get rid of.
TOR and dockside are the 2 cards i would've love to have seen gone. doesn't feel like they're done banning with this philosophy tbh, especially mentioning "banning these cards makes the format less homogenous" - i can only feel the reaper floating towards one ring's door
I 100% agree with both of you. Plus they just based Commander Masters on Jeweled Lotus.
I also 100% agree. TOR needs to go if these other cards are going.
The One Ring is going to be reprinted in Marvel (my guess). They want to make their money off of it first.
The One Ring not being banned in any formats makes me suspect WotC won't or can't ban it.
It’s going to be hard on MTG players and collectors as a whole. When rules can change at any time, then cards value becomes purely speculative. This decision is going to have a big ripple effect on the market. If they wanted to blow the market, that’s the way to do it😢
As someone who has dealt with a lot of people in stores who during rule 0 say they only have decks with mana crypt, im glad this reverses the burden. Groups can rule 0 powerful cards in just like they can rule 0 them out. Your playgroup can keep them!
Edit: i do feel bad for people who spent $$$ on these, i had a friend who bought pdox engine the week before it was banned
IMHO It's so much easier to rule 0 cards in than it is to get them out that it's insane.
@@qwormuli77yeah it's not super practical
@@qwormuli77 It's the reverse for me. My friends are down for whatever, but randoms at stores take the banlist for gospel and do not entertain rule 0'ing stuff back in.
@@qwormuli77it's not very practical, especially when the person wants to run them
Following this logic... any chances to see Ancient Tomb being banned?
RIP jeweled lotus
Thank god I went the Proxy route in recent months.
I feel like this is a borderline legal issue with Jeweled Lotus. WOTC shouldn't be allowed to create chase cards to sell sets that are only playable in one format (I know they are legal in vintage and legacy but you're never going to use them without a commander) and then ban them a year later. I understand it's the rules committee decision but I don't think cards should be printed if banning them in one format makes them effectively unplayable. Opening a pack with a Jeweled Lotus now is basically getting one less card in your pack.
I don't think they make any guarantees as to worth of cards
i mean this happens very often in card games in general and has been happening in MtG forever. Skullclamp was instantly banned, Lurrus was very expensive before it was banned in every single format (including legacy and vintage), Oko and Uro both banned in standard pretty quickly, This concept is not new at all and these are worse examples since WotC actually made this cards and banned themselves. Remember Nexus of Fate and how bad issues with that card was due to it being promo only? I own a mana crypt and I don't think this is an issue at all, and it actually shows that the committee is an somewhat individual entity that is not afraid to ban cards just because they are staples.
It's a game first. It sucks that in the last few years it's become basically an nft.
@BDtetra your examples of bannings are bad examples as those cards are still playable in other formats. Jeweled lotus was only playable in the commander format...and was printed solely to drive up sales of the set it was released in. Banning it makes the card worthless and the set itself will lose value as well now that the chase card no longer exists.
@BDtetra I agree they've made multiple similar mistakes in the past. The difference here is that Jeweled Lotus was an intentionally busted card that was designed for commander in a commander specific set. Lurrus, oko, and the rest were busted, but to my recollection they weren't the center pieces of their sets that were advertised as the big chase cards for a hyper specific format. It feels like false advertising knowing a busted card can be released and then banned a year later and basically turned into a paper weight. What stops them from printing an even more busted version and making their money selling boxes before pulling the plug again?
i pulled dockside and lotus and they felt sick to own. now they have less use than a basic land, that feels bad
I feel in doing this It is only going to cause more headaches and controversy. People who've spent hundreds or thousands of dollars blinging out decks are not willing to just throw those cards away and they're also not willing to take a huge loss by selling them for pennies on the dollar. What I fear is going to happen is people are not going to take them out of their decks and therefore are not going to be able to play at lgs's which is sad. The thing that no one is talking about is the local game stores who are going to lose tons of their customer base. Like myself who enjoy playing higher powered magic. I will not spend another dollar on Magic. The gathering I have listed my entire collection and I will strictly proxy going forward.
Hell yeah join the club! Proxies are where it’s at.
You know you could always rule 0 stuff back into your tables if you and your playgroup like the higher power levels
As someone who plays in stores, this makes me especially happy. Half of games are three people with a tribal deck and one person with mana crypt
Players are faced with a choice: play by the rules of the format or don't play with most people.
What you are saying is that most of the people at an LGS all run Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus in their decks and this is the only reason they play the game. That suddenly the inability to cast a Commander 2-3 turns ahead of time 10% of the the games is the only reason their decks work. And that those people are all going to quit now that they can't do that. I mean...good riddance, if that was the only thing keeping you playing.
Proxies from now on. Fu wotc
Earlier this summer I traded in two Mana Crypts because I cracked them in packs, and I didn’t want to be that guy playing that card casually. I made a great choice!
Reason 1B to buy proxies. I can just toss out those $3 copies of the expensive, now banned cards and move on.
.33 apiece if you do a sheet of 108 with MPC....*cheap pop*
Pretty much.
@@DangerKennyB MPC working well these day?
@@Phantomwaxx Yep!
Banning a card after you used it to sell a popular set is absurd. Bannings like this, make me fear being a collector and a player myself. I’ve spent a lot of money on some pieces of cardboard to play in my playgroup and now $100 card of mine is worth nothing because I can’t play with it. And this was done by the rules committee not Hasbro themselves. I’m about to rule zero the rules committee in our playgroup.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? You don’t have to go along with their bans, and they even explicitly encourage you to discuss with your playgroup what you think are the most fun ways to play the game, and then just play it like that.
good you should fear being a collector if you're collecting with the sole intent to make money on your collection. these aren't baseball cards, magic is a game and the game comes first not the financial value of individual cards you could have proxied if you didn't want to spend all that money but your playgroup still wanted to run the cards.
lol it’s not worth nothing, still selling on tcg player for 36-42 dollars
you should play with proxies
How about banning a couple cards that were used to sell a secret lair like the festival in a box..? Lol
I have a signed jeweled lotus and dockside… I think I’m gonna quit magic
For people wondering, Wizards has just confirmed that Sol Ring will never be banned since its solely a Commander exclusive and staple
It is also included in every precon. If Jeweled Lotus was treated the same way I think it would be treated the same way.
Do you mean the RC, cause wizards can’t ban anything in commanders
I know initially we wil hear a lot of people complaining because those voices get amplified, generally I’m guessing most players are happy with these changes
I think personally the banning feels bad for lotus and crypt because somehow the one ring still exists despite it also deserving a ban for the same reasons as jeweled lotus imo
One ring is a problem in modern. In commander it’s good but not at all problematic.
Ya one ring not being easily reset by copies 2,3,4 in edh is huge. Also one of the few ways mono red can keep up with green,blue, black in terms of non exile based draw
The one ring is fine in commander. It's only really a problem in modern
The reasoning behind Lotus and Crypt applies itself to Sol Ring. The difference is Sol Ring is $0.75 whereas the other two were costed out of a lot of players hands. Kinda wish the RC was upfront and said "we're banning these because resellers and aftermarket" which is far more likely considering that turn 1 sol ring and signet is also 5 mana on turn 2.
A friend of mine literally saw thousands of dollars worth of inventory get wiped away yesterday, and now I'm worried that if a card winds up too expensive on the aftermarket it will go away; Wheel of Fortune, Mox Diamond, and Gaea's Cradle might be on the chopping block now not because of their effect on games but the fact they're costed out.
That said, a way to get Sol Ring banned is to jack up the aftermarket price to over $100.
Im honestly fine with this change. Theres stinging pains because I have each of these cards (except the damn bird) but I feel this will make a healthier format overall. I am pouring one out for the cEDH players. After the nuke drops I hope they can recover and I'm interested to see what happens next
Feeling exactly this comment
I’m not as happy about Wasting $700 because Rachel Weeks and Josh and Olivia think these cards are too good
I'm just sad for my nekusar deck lost Dockside that helped me accelerate its game plan
In competitive formats, you adapt. cEDH players should theoretically be the least upset as they can and should be able to adapt, especially since what they lost are not whole decks but fast mana pieces that simply enable broken starts. If you're only there to win games in blowouts because you drew the most fast mana, you're not much of a competitor.
@@bobthor9647 do like the rest of the cEDH players do and just proxy your damn cards
Good thing the "commander banlist" is just a recommendation lol. I'll always pregame mention if i have a crypt or if I'm playing my Nadu deck.
I'm genuinely impressed the RC had the backbone to do this. Still more that needs to go and plenty that could be unbanned but this is damn good progress
Hell yeah!
Being happy a ruling body imposed your personal rule 0 on me is a weird flex, but ok.
@DangerKennyB damn I'm so sorry for you loss 😔
@@DangerKennyBThat's literally how the ban list works in every single format.
@@rjswonson Commander isn't every format. Standard doesn't have a Rule 0. Trust us with rule 0, and butt the hell out, in my opinion
Did y'all manage to get this whole video out in like two hours? Amazing!
Can they stop charging $200+ boxes if they're going let the RC ban the chase money cards that make up the sets?
WOTC doesn’t run the RC, and the RC don’t determine the price of sets
@@henrytorr5810 they just did.
Just finished my Korvold CEDH deck not too long ago. 3 of the 4 cards were full art variants and now, not only are those cards dead on arrival but also my commander. Of course, i could rule 0 but that doesn't change the fact that i overspent on now banned cards that outside of my friend groups i can't play them. It's pretty frustrating that after making special sets for these cards and charging a load of money for those boosters, they turn around and drop this. Even explicitly saying they won't ban sol ring is just a cop out for every precon ever made to still have something going for them and a justification. Jeweled lotus was one of the only reasons 5 drop commanders were even playable. Mana crypt should had been in every precon like sol ring since you either win the game or die to the coin flip. Dockside I understand but even then when he dropped, there were times for other players to interact with the cards that made him good to begin with. Maybe it's the CEDH brain in me yapping and complaining, but it stings in a weirdly bad way.
Wiping thousands off of peoples collections smh…
Wonder if RC members cashed out on insider info…
Of course they did
You don't have to sell, and that's the risk in buying cards. Just buy what you need.
The Command Zone will continue to pretend like they arnt the Rules Committee
Of course they did
@@Arctanis-vt3hlyeah just buy 100 dollar cards or 400 boxes to get the chase card then lose all that money for nothing. Yes this will hit wotc bottom line as I spend 400 a month to feed the fam all the cards including the commons and uncommon for fun building but never again
Nitpicking Nerds is the only channel/people I've seen so far be intellectually honest in regard to the "precon legality" issue. It is SO easy to arbitrarily declare a deck be legal if unmodified, as they've already done in the past. It's also SO easy to find ONE CARD to put in where that sol ring was.
"We don't want to micromanage the format"- rc like 2 weeks ago....
Im not sure how this can be called "Micromanaging"
@@windstar120025 my wording isn't perfect but if you can't get the context not my fault. A member of the rc tweeted(just weeks ago) we won't ban stuff for Yada Yada reasons. I'm ok w the bans but why go back on what was said?
3 guys from my playgroup were going to build Nadu. Non-sweaty group, regular group. Glad this ban came when it did.
I might just be in an oblivious bubble, but I've never had bad experiences with any of these cards. People know how strong they are and only bring them to suitable tables. Its a fundamental part of the format to have a rule 0 conversation to match power level as well as you can. Banning these cards just nerfs cEDH, high power EDH and some random janky decks that need a Crypt for thematic reasons.
??????
Definitely an oblivious bubble, friend.
I was gonna type a long response, but i genuinely don't know what commander games you're playing that these cards didn't immediately springboard a player into a highly favorable or even a winning position.
I doesn't nerf them, it just makes play more competitive and interesting. You get a Crypt and you're probably going to win, so you didn't win because of skill, you won because you got a great opening hand.
Same! Crypt isn't even a guaranteed win, same as sol ring. Often brings more targeted attacks.
Cedh maybe could use the shake up but... this is bad all around right now.
@@dhantefranklin336favorable or winning yes... so you use your targeted removal and stop them, kill them, or shuffle up and play again!!
I run into these (especially crypt and DE) in stores all the time. Rule 0 can go both ways. I def prefer a random having to ask if they can add mana crypt versus having to ask them to take it out (if they have something to sub)
What about free counter spells or free spells in general then? I think that there's an argument to be made that if the only criteria to be met in order to cast a spell is to control your commander in a format that revolves around doing so should also be questioned
Nah let me explain why this ban has killed my faith in the RC.
They banned three of these cards because they were too fast, they banned Nadu because it made the games.... too slow? They're trying to force a play style and I don't like that.
If we are banning cards that are "too homogenous" (which was their reasoning behind Golos, which was also stupid) or because they lead to "explosive turns" let me name a few other cards that would fit into those criteria
Rhystic study
Smothering Tithe
Craterhoof Behemoth
Moonshaker cavalry
Triumph of the Hordes
Literally almost any ramp spell
Every single tutor
Dark ritual
The moxes (the ones that ARE legal, anyway)
Gaeas Cradle
Torment of Hailfire
Exsanguinate
Even the common printed Gray Merchant of Asphodel
COUNTERSPELLS IN GENERAL
Ancient Tomb.
Omniscience
Enter the infinite
And the list goes on.
Every single one of these cards can either make an explosive turn, Lead to a huge advantage, or are in a majority of the decks that they are in the colors of. At what point does the banning draw the line?
Not even to mention the financial aspect of all three of these cards being the "chase card" of many sets throughout recent years, such as 2XM, LCI, commander legends, commander masters, mystery boosters 1 AND 2, as well as probably a few others slipping my mind right now. This is a HUGE middle finger to anyone who bought sealed product and opened those cards that Wizards WANTED you to chase so they could sell more product.
The ban and their reasoning are totally out of touch. They want to push the "rule zero" conversation so much but then do stuff like this to try and Dictate how people can and can't play. Some cards are LEGIT issues that need to be banned, primeval titan is one, hullbreacher is another, Leopold for SURE, they CAN make the game either completely unwinnable or unfun, but cards like this that are basically required in a whole subsection of the format, printed specifically as chase cards in recent sets FOR the format, should have been left alone.
I JUST got myself a Jewelled Lotus for my birthday at the end of last month for my Niv-Mizzet, Parun!!
Rule zero and still play it!
@@brianpendleton2674 my group and I have already agreed to that! Just sucks if I wanna play outside of them.
3 lotus, 3 crypts, and a dockside, deleting about 2g's thanks wizards, i know going forward, don't buy anything, just proxy. Sweet. saved me crazy amount of money for the future. Gonna sell my duals, those are too fast and good.
That’s what happens when you spend thousands are cardboard…
@@emerson685 Yes. The morale is don't give your LGS a dime as its not worth the risk. See how long they allow a play space with that attitude.
I think a big thing is most of these cards are really expensive. In my decks I don't own them and in my typical playgroups I never saw these played as we are not going to pay 100+ dollars for some cardboard. I think that is why some people are getting really upset as well. They spent hundreds of dollars on cards they cannot use at any given table.
The irony of this as I was picking apart a few of my decks to pull cards out to make a Nadu deck, now I've got a handful of partially deconstructed decks and no Nadu deck
Lmao why did you think making a Nadu deck was a good idea in the first place😂
Well deserved for playing nadu
Everyone saw the Nadu ban coming miles away why would you build Nadu?
Not to mention the obscene power and obnoxious play pattern of the card.
@@mufasafalldown8401 I'm just a "kitchen table" magic player, I don't follow anything really. We adhere to any bans, but I don't really keep up with the news. I also already had Nadu from a trade so I didn't buy any cards; I just had Nadu laying around and the cards to support a deck and was seeing what I could put together.
Moxfield still not Banned..... So OP.
So let’s start banning all the chase cards in every set.
The thing about rule 0 is I think it’s easier to allow an exception than agree on a ban. Almost every week I play against a unique lineup from a pool of around 40 commander players. With that many players it is really hard to rule 0 bans but very easy to rule 0 exceptions.
No one wants to sit down at the table and tell people what they can’t play and organizing that many people to get an official band list together is unrealistic and overly time consuming. It also puts added friction on players joining the group or learning Magic. Now they have to be informed of secondary LGS or pod bannings.
There is also the question of what to do if they don’t adhere to or agree with the ban? I think it just leads to socially awkward situations. It’s much easier to have a conversation saying “I’m playing this banned card. Is that OK?”. Most of the time people will be fine with it and also it can give an indication of the table about the power level of your deck. I think these bans are super great for the health of the format. Appreciate the RC for taking action.
Their explanation for banning Mana Crypt but not Sol Ring was really weak in my opinion.
I think it’s notable that it will feel bad for everyone who already had these expensive cards in their decks, but that without reprints, these card prices would only keep climbing and there would come a day where Wizards would ban the cards eventually, and people would lose even more money. So, there’s no fortunate time for this to happen, but sooner is better than later.
That being said, I think it would be awesome if Wizards announced bans far ahead of time. This way, prices drop slower while those who know they need the money back can sell their cards asap, and still get most value back. For example, a 3 month warning would allow people to still play some last games with their cards or prepare for the devastation to the value.
Most significantly, people with commanders getting banned can sell off the cards in the deck before they lose their value, too. There were definitely some cards that Nadu affected directly, like Shuko, which jumped up by about 1000% from before Nadu was leaked to when MH3 first came out. Now the card will likely plummet in value even though it wasn’t directly banned.
Why is nobody talking about “The One Ring” eluding this ban
As catharsis for my greatest pull ever from the one box of Commander Legends I could afford back when that was released, being Jewelled Lotus, let me just say: Fuck the Rules Committee. I cede the remainder of my time.
Imagine getting the Savine deck for christmass, getting dockside. Then it's banned. Me rn
Iirc it was said forever ago that if a precon is illegal in edh that it is still legal if it's an unmodified precon. This rule came up when one of the Ikoria precons had 2 copies of a single card
Best to ask your playgroup though
@@EvanFarshadowI thought that was a brawl thing because of banning a standard legal card
That's the risk of buying anything.
@@Lazydino59 it happened with Ikoria's precons too iirc specifically bc of the two copies of a card issue
There is a financial aspect that the RC is probably not allowed to comment on. If a must-play card costs $100+, you cannot even reliably reprint it in a precon because people would try to flip them. It would take several, subsequent reprinting of these mana generators on tons of precons to have them be a reasonable price. You would essentially be dooming these precons to skyrocket in price (Look at Endless Punishment or the Eldrazi precons) and not allowing new players to acquire them. The sentiment seems to be that if a card makes every deck better AND it costs a fortune to add to a deck, then ban it. Other staples like Tutors, Gaea's Cradle, or Dark Ritual are color-constrained, so they don't go in EVERY deck. Following this logic you can explain the Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt bans
I can understand Nadu, as that can keep you waiting for your turn for 10 minutes, but the other 3 are just fine. And if you ban these cards then you can have the same argument for a Sol Ring or a Rhystic Study / Smothering Tithe or Ancient Tomb... And every CEDH's deck has become illegal. I can forsee a format split.
A card like Mana Crypt is something I actually need in decks to be able to still play my slow expensive commanders to have a chance against the low mana cost Commanders.
I definitely think they should have banned sol ring too (which I guess they pretty much admitted lol)
To me if they’re going to ban nadu for that reason uhhh gitrog does that same nonsense only instead of shuko its dakmor
@@sir_quirkus7206 Nah. Not as egregious.
But everyone gets to play Mana Crypt, so it's an illusion thinking that you have a chance just because you're playing Mana Crypt. If they are playing it too, the net effect is zero.
@@Arctanis-vt3hl I don't play Mana Crypt in decks that have cheap commanders, I just don't need it. But if I need to wait for turn 6 to play my non-green Commander I want all the fast mana I can get!
This is ridiculous, how can they ban jeweled lotus. It's only a commander card and it's worthless now. They screwed players. These were chase cards of fairly recent sets.
For real. I’d be pissed. Luckily I sold mine off last year as my play group isn’t super sweaty but people just lost 100’s of dollars. That card is going to crash in value like ive never seen befire
It's overpowered and honestly a pushed card. Wotc knows commander is the most popular format and IMHO they should've banned it from the get go.
@@sir_quirkus7206True. I have one Jeweled Lotus and 2x Docksides. Not a fortune but still pretty tough. Dockside as well as Jeweled Lotus are now like 20€ here in Germany when I looked it up today. I can live with that but if you just pulled a Mana Crypt from the Ixalan set that must be devasdating.
they already sold the packs, soooo..
@@IVISMiLESIVIthey shouldn't have printed it and sold packs based on it. This shakes up player trust.
Dont make sense, if the problem is variety Thassas oracle's should be banned too, for me thease bans are just because of the price of them...
I feel bad for my wife, she almost cried when she saw the announcement on her feed. For my birthday (September 3rd), she bought me a Jeweled Lotus and a Mana Crypt (I already had a Dockside Extortionist) for my high power goblins deck. I play with two groups, one where we play very high power and CEDH decks and the other where we play really casual stuff. I actually told her last night how excited I was to play with my higher power group this Friday because I have off work and it will be the first time I've played with the group since she got me my lotus and crypt. She was so upset when she heard the news, way more upset than I was, although the more I stew on it...
Just Rule 0 it in with your playgroup. Don’t let anyone tell you what you can’t play, especially if playing with friends
Bruh Fuck the rules committee Play whatever you want. Never let the rules committee control you, play whatever makes you happy thats all that matters.
my take as a mostly CEDH player: these bans made competitive worse most likely and do nothing for casual.
NADU: Ban is actually fine - its not a problem in CEDh but its new and the play pattern is really bad, so fine to see it go.
Dockside: This is the card the Format is shaped around at the moment - its like brainstorm in legacy. While it is very powerfull, its also a great tool for less powerfull decks to get up to speed to play with the S tier Decks - S tier decks are so fast that they do not need dockside - they still play it, cause its good, but there are other decks that needed it to be competitive in the first place: First of all, there are only like 10 cards in the whole color red that are good enough in commander, so Dockside was the incentive for a lot of decks to play red and created new archetypes just by existing. It also created some decks where you actually where able to play your commander (crazy in a format called commander) It also enabeled a lot of decks that where more control oriented or grindy - So the fast mana from dockside actually often times allowed games to be longer. For Casual that ban doesnt do much since rule zero exist, and people who ignore it will now use one of the following: mana vault, ancient tomb, gaes cradle, moxes... the list goes on.
Lotus: this thing like Dockside gave many t2 Decks a chance. Godo, Urza, Daretti, Korvold, Sisay. It is there to balance the downside of mono color commanders with faster acces to said commanders and also is a great card in a format where you want to see people casting anything over 5 mana.
Crypt: the most irrational ban. they say it themself that sol ring rivals this card. so the right decission is not to ban this but to make it into a staple in commander precons so everybody has one - with banning only a few mana rocks, the games where someone has an explosive start will most likely ones where their opponent did not - so instead of everybody being fast, most likely only one player is and gets a free win -- thats not balance it actually made it worse
I would say the signs these bannings give are very dangerous.
First of all it seems like they try to force a format in which games are not only long but also even more coinflippy than a singleton format already is. They fear cards that are strong AND expensive even though the only reason for that is WotC's bad reprint policy - Dockside could be in every red precon, lotus in every precon! They did it with sol ring, they can do it again - i came to commander because its a vintage format and i want to play powerfull stuff - i also want stability in the card pool without being forced to buy the "newest toys" every 3 month. It was a community format that gave you a reason to play with the cool stuff in your binder.
So what will be the applications of this bans. A lot of people will proxy even more now. CEDH will not change too much just like a third of the decks got worse while the top ones got better. Turn 2 wins are still as likeley as they ever where. Casual douchebags that want to pub stomp change their crypt and lotus to a cradle and vault and still do that.
Who benefits from this? Not CEDH, not casual EDH, not Wizards, not investors.
This is why getting a group of friends to play is so much better. Banning cards that they've been pushing recently just feels bad for people who got those cards.
I haven't been super active since Nadu came out but everyone from my playgroup discord reacted as if his ban was well timed. Remember it isn't just card draw but also dumping lands from _your library directly into play._ Apparently a typical game against a decent+ Nadu deck would either be Nadu pumps out 25 lands and wins, or Nadu never sticks a landing.
Also hearing a kid say '________ to the max' was not on my BINGO card.
Sol ring is a $1 card. It shouldn't be on any radar for being banned.... Every single player has access to it. It is a budget card. Since the beginning of the argument to have it banned its been eye rolling being it has always been easily accessible to every single person. Where as cards like Mana Crypt, a $100 card, is definitely not as accessible to the same amount of players.
The argument for banning sol ring is that it gives the player who has it in their opener a much lead, if every player had it when one player had it then it wouldn’t be such a huge problem
@@henrytorr5810 they also said they like when a player can get that fun factor of opening with some explosive mana. but they dont want it to be one into another. some games should have that "wow what a hand" but if you have a few of these cards in your deck you can just mul to five and still be explosive on most hands. it should be one in every 10 games that you get a fast hand. as why sol ring is to stay and the others are to go.
The Nadu ban makes sense when you think of it like this: lightning greaves is a very popular commander card. Even in the best of intentions if someone build Nadu most likely they would put lightning greaves in it and just that alone is enough to be grindy at casual tables. So the rule 0 conversation would have to be no Nadu and lightning greaves which is just awkward.
Well my collection just lost a ton a value 🙃. My group is in the power down step in this never ending cycle so this won’t affect most of my decks but it really hurts my binder😢😢.
That can happen regardless of format. That's the risk of buying cards. I have a dockside and it's just what happens sometimes.
Don't use cardboard as an investment?
I understand the sentiment there. I don’t “invest” in magic the gathering but I had cards that were worth money and know they’re worth much less. Just a bummer
Surprised they didn't un-ban some of the powere crept out older bans.
Well in my community we've all already agreed to not abide by this band list. Since we all disagree
100% concur
1000% We don't play these cards normally but it's a slap in the face to lose 400 in value like this.
WHat if one person agree with it? How did your community get to that conclusion a couple of hours after it was made.
@@elladan23 Why would anyone agree with it for a private play group?
This video isn't about a band list
Jeweled lotus is the worst one, literally a useless card everywhere else on purpose
Mana crypt hurts the most, was the ultimate booster chase for years
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
@@henrytorr5810 They shouldnt, it less about the price and more similar to Sol ring. If they where gonna bann Mana crytpt they should have done so literally years ago.
@@henrytorr5810 Obviously they do it is the reason that they state sol ring doesn't get banned. If all cards got banned for unfun playpatters then this format would have a lot less decks
@@vakuzar I actually 100% agree with this, crypt should have been banned years years ago
Banning in commander is a joke unless your competitive or your play group strictly adheres strictly to ban list just ask ahead of times likely as long ss everyones having fun they dont care if its banned.
Yeaaa banning jeweled lotus, which is a card for commander format ONLY, is such a low ball. Someone said The One Ring deserves to be banned more than the lotus and i 100% agree.
Counterpoint:
Turboing out a problematic commander isn't particularly fun either.
Lotus enabling T2 Tergrid, T3 Niv-Mizzet Parun, or T1 Hakbal just isn't fun.
One Ring is fine too.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play??? And why can’t they just both be banned, I’ve seen a lot of people saying that the one ring should have been banned instead of jeweled lotus, but why can’t they just both be banned???
I'm just salty about jeweled lotus, the rest can go. It's scummy to use this powerhouse of a ritual to sell sets then ban it in the only format it is legal in
Bruh this video seems so tone deaf. Like these bans resulted in thousands of dollars of value lost for players. Not sure thats something we want to continue to encourage for our community
I understand the pain. If WoTC knew these were on the chopping block and still used them as chase cards in recent sets (LCI etc.), that's disgraceful. If anyone on the RC or at WoTC sold these off beforehand, they're lucky the SEC doesn't apply here. However I don't think the vid was tone deaf, they're up late giving their snap opinions on it and just being honest. If you didn't like fast mana in the format then you'd approve of the bans. Many people, myself included, have these cards and will just take them out of decks or rule 0 them in. In the future less people will buy these pushed cards, saving them money. Unforch you and I are taking the hit right now. Sadge.
I’m glad that if Mana Crypt was going to get banned, that they went ahead and did it. I was legitimately going to buy one, probably this Friday. I’m currently building a deck with Gyruda companion where you can’t have odd mana value cards, aka no Sol Ring. For this reason, it was going to be my first deck with a Mana Crypt in it. I’m glad I didn’t buy it and THEN it got banned.
Guess now that Sheldon is gone, the rules committee is gonna help Hasbro run the game into the ground. In reality, who really plays commander at sanctioned events anyways...
There are a lot of discord channels with events that follow RC bans and have cash and/or physical prizes
Sheldon was holding the RC back now that he's out of the way they can do the things that the format needs
@@Vernonnnthese are cedh, and at that level, none of these cards cause much of an issue
I have 18 decks, and i own zero dockside, zero crypt, and zero lotus… however I have a nadu in my Ivy gleeful auras deck, and I don’t have any of the 0 attach cost artifacts I’m gonna pitch to my group if I can still use it.
I sold off my Mana Crypt and Dockside a good long time ago. My table ramped up its power over the first year we started, and then we've been dialing it back since then