Or the same as with Ferrari where the other teams(rb and mercedes if i remember correct) found out How They did make ekstra engine power… and after that Ferrari worked with fia for such things being harder to do
It's not that it didn't work, the FIA worked with Pirelli made the rules against it by forbidding teams to change moisture contents of the tyres. Though it was never mentioned how good it worked.
There should be a racing series that lets engineers do whatever they want as long as it’s safe. 6 wheels? Go for it. Water in tires? Absolutely. Just anything and everything to make the best race car possible.
This exactly, majority of motorsports are credited way to much in the car community. And with the regulations to make the most "fair" competition make it the most uninteresting shit ever.
With current technology it would be too dangerous. The car with the best cornering ability not bound by the rulebook would just snap the driver's neck.
This water tactic shouldn't even be illegal, anything that improves the performance of the cars without risking the safety of the driver should be allowed. Makes the sport more interesting and innovative
Unfortunately the FIA disagree, look at Williams car development through the 90's a lot of the innovative technology they came up with was eventually banned, some simply because they were a while 2 seconds faster than there competitors. For instance things like adaptive suspension, and traction control. Even the adaptive wheel alignment on the steering wheel that mercedes came out with I think got banned.
@raymonschepers994 not at all. To become a gass the temperature needs to be higher as 100°C. And the pressure is much higher. 2 bar pressure already makes it 140°C
As someone with a thermal dynamics cert…. This makes very little sense. Okay yes water can cool things that are hot. If it is applied directly. Water doesn’t actually cool anything. It absorbs heat. And there is only so much heat water can absorb before it flashes into steam. There’s absolutely no way a F1 team can predict the flash point of water in a pressurized tire. Even worse there’s zero way to predict how the tires air pressure will change during a stint if there’s water flashing and condensing inside the tire. Dumb.
Air compressors generally have moisture buildup in them. Normally you drain the water out of our compressors periodically so it would be very easy to add a small amount of water in the line and have it inserted in the tire. I’m not sure if they use nitrogen in these tires.
@@jamesmilne6351 I would assume they’re using high-pressure bottles of nitrogen. Either way it’s still be easy to add water to them as the inflate and deflate for track temp and conditions. Although this is a lot of speculation because those marks on the tires could be when they mount them as these are very difficult tires to mount. So there is a compound they use on the edge of the tire and wheel. If they were adding water, it wouldn’t show it running from the wheel onto the tire. and wouldn’t they be smart enough to wipe it off. So again this is just one of those things that’s probably nothing and taken to an Nth degree.😅
They already under inflate to compensate for the air expansion so Im pretty sure the nerds behind the scenes could also calculate for the 50g of water/vapour of that 50g and how much it increases in pressure also.
I don’t remember exactly why, but at work we were talking about water in tires (acting as balancing beads in a way) and then I pointed out half the year was freezing and driving with gigantic chunks chunks of ice would probably be nearly impossible.
Beet juice is what they use in tractor tires in the winter, granted a lot more than for use as balance beads. The sugar content reduces its freezing point.
Redbull are good with making things up out of thin air. Like when they were complaining about the Mercedes rear wing in 2021 moving large amounts when there was video analysis by loads of people to say it wasn’t.
On top of that redBull did do this back in the day and they found it made some difference and the people that helped with the project at The time has moved on to other teams so its not out of thin air. Its highly probable.
@@eze__95 Yes. I am. I’m questioning the claim because personally, I can’t see how a team could do this without officials knowing. If they have footage or evidence, then they should show it.
@@okuhtttf its not necessarily that the water is expected to absorb the heat but it could help spread heat around the rim more evenly. RedBull themselves have done it in the past so of course they are aware of how it would work and the effects. It was outlawed because teams were doing it. so to claim it has no benefit is silly. If it had no benefit, teams wouldnt do it, so it wouldnt need to be outlawed in the first place. the vid says as little as 50g. RB only say that even that much could make a difference meaning its not like they have to fill the tyre.
Air compressors naturally have water condensation build up if you don’t regularly drain/empty the tanks at night. A team could use that as an excuse if ever caught
@lzh4950 it's more stable as far as expansion with heat, is the primary reason I've ever heard it being used for tires. Consistent pressures (or at least more consistent) across temperature range which helps provide more predictable handling characteristics compared to using standard atmosphere to fill tires.
@@goosenotmaverick1156 Nitrogen use in road cars has various benefits: - a bit more stable (lesser???) expansion as tires heat up (atmospheric compressed air has water in it, as humidity, and most of the expansion is made by water vapor increasing volume more than nitrogen) - the same water vapor and oxigen, at pressure, seep slowly thru the tire's rubber from the inside (not by the rim: actually thru the rubber itself)..... by the time, it can degrade the internal, metallic, tire's carcass degrading/oxidizing it, degrading performance/safety over time In a race car, the first factor (more predictability) is probably more benficial than the second (valid more for year-long used tires on everyday roads): using one only, stable, gas, rather than a variable mixture of atmospheric compressed air (it varies by the weather, location and all sort of factors) it makes simpler to predict performance based only on race usage cases. (simpler simulations/predictions of handling???)
Any mechanic in a shop that maintains an air compression would tell you that water builds up in the bottom of a tank. If you do not empty that water, the air that you put in tires becomes humid. The 50 grams sounds about right because the psi of those tires is like 27 I think. They're getting away with it because the water is already in the air compressor. The reason why there's water on the rims is because those tires get worn out so fast that the water will start permeating out of any crack that it can find its way out of.
And Max said that it's just McLaren that has whined the whole year... Should we just accept that this year all of the top teams have been trying to get everything and anything in their rival's car outlawed.
@@petersiep Well, basically yes. However, somehow I've gotten the feeling that the race to get rival's stuff outlawed has been even more rampant this year than in the few years prior.
If you've followed F1 for a very long time this is quite normal. It's been this way since forever. Lauda got Hunt's car banned, Mercedes had Ferrari's engined outlawed a couple of seasons ago, the whole X-Wing thing of the late 90's, to mention an iota of the accusations ans complaints made by teams, teams are always complaining about something.
Some tires are known to sweat by nature of the rubber compound being so insulating. A natural factor may be ground wave interference such as a form of Radiolysis and static effects perhaps from glue residues maybe like a run flat tyre such as Continentals ContiSeal. Other brands use the self sealant coating inside aswell. Some other aspects may be some brands such as Michelin are known to be more silicone rich, an aspect of silicone is oxygen bonds, so it could be a byproduct of heat of tyre wear, and maybe colder weather from wind drafts perhaps, cold storage or sweat from heat or temperature of air as if you remove a valve core the air coming out can ice up and splutter as you see with the pressure coating the valve stem white in residue from moisture in the air inside and rate of release maybe akin to forming a condensate.
The rules being "broken" here are: a. Tyres may only be inflated with air or nitrogen. b. Any process the intent of which is to reduce the amount of moisture in the tyre and/or in its inflation gas is forbidden. Air isn't a specific gas and sometimes air contains more moisture than other times. And the rule forbids the REDUCTION of moisture, doesn't say anything about adding moisture. Nothing illegal about it.
I would say that they use something else, like isopropyl alcohol. It doesn't affect moisture content in air (so everything is according to rules), it evaporates easy and doesn't affect pressures so much. Most of rubber compounds are resistant to it, and even if, slight degradation of interior shouldn't be problem during 1-2 hour usage of tyre.
Hows it get heat to the rim? Surely the water would be constantly againt the inside of the tyre not the rim. Also wouldnt the water heating up keep heat inside the tyre?
Centrifugal force when the tyre spins would keep the water at the rubber walls on the inside of the tyre tread. I'm not sure if the vehicles can get slow enough for the water to drip down to the tyres, but the evaporative theory makes more sense
@@1st-Le-On Yeah with the added pressure it likely wouldn't boil, and it would change the balance of the tires, no idea if it would help transfer heat to the rims.
Standardize humidity sensors inside tires. This will regulate the use of water. Baseline the tires humidity, then ensure all driver's tires are equal during the race.
Eh it would be very easy to explain some moisture in the tires. Just say that we forgot to drain the tanks on the air compressors and that’s how the fluid got in there. It happens ass the tome
Air compressors build up water in the storage tank as they run. Depending on the humidity they can accumulate quite a bit of moisture in a really short amount of time even with a filter on them. Even with a desiccant air dryer you will still get some moisture and im not sure that would even be available to them. I don't know if that would be enough moisture to detect seeping from the bead of the tire and rim.
Such a boomer comment.. the racing has been better from front to the back of the grid for the first time in ages.. these cars make racing so much more fun to watch, they’re harder to drive than the previous era’s they’re heavier, bigger and need more skill, the drivers needed to adjust everything about their previous driving style to compliment the new era of cars and now we are finally seeing competitive racing.. i think you forget the previous few era’s has been complete domination by one team, Ferrari with Schumacher then there was a grace period from about 2005 to 2009 where anyone could’ve won, then Seb, Hamilton and Max.. we are finally seeing proper hard racing now. Enjoy it, technology will ALWAYS be part of f1.. it’s why it’s the best motorsport on the planet.
@Snotzalotz OK, calm down. I was actually referring to the era BEFORE Schumacher-Ferrari. As an older fan, I've seen the transitions and developments happen in real time, and most of them have been for the better. But if you think this iteration is more exciting than watching Senna battle his own Lotus, drifting round bends to victory, then you need your head checked. Yes. Progress is progress, and things have had to change for the sake of safety. That's fine. But let's agree that the stewards need to keep their noses out a little more. Finally, keep your boomer rhetoric to yourself. Without them, you and I wouldn't be here.
I’ve always added Gear oil to my gocart tires. Keeps tire temps down and it’s a great way to know if I have any bead leaks. Also makes swapping tires a breeze.
What exactly does “RedBull itself has explored this tactic” mean? lol. Come on, we all know what that means. They did it themselves so they know it when they see it.
If you really listen closely, you'll hear them say Red Bull explored it before it was illegal to do so, and that some of the people who worked on it, have since left Red Bull for other teams
I used to do this on my car when I would take it to the track. Didn't help much if any with traction, however I did notice the tires lasted longer when I put a little water in them. Like a cup or two of water would make my tires last 2 to 3 runs longer than no water.
It works! A youtuber did test it with a burnout. Welded rear axle. New tyres one with only air and one with water + fairy dishwashing fluid. The air only lasted like 2 minutes but the one with water lasted 10 minutes of constant burnout and when it popped it became a foam party
Honestly I’d put that more up to an age difference of the rubber than any possibility of enhanced cooling from water. All water vapor does is mess with tire pressure, that’s why I do the nitrogen fill just to get rid of the humidity so that the tire pressure light doesn’t come on every time it goes above 90f in the summer or below 20f in the winter.
Ho yeah... a youtuber... So it means that in racing conditions for F1 that try to race in an optimum temperature range, it will improve the time.... Ho wait, sometimes they struggle to keep the heat in the tyres, and in the same race, it heats up too much cause the conditions changed. Yeah... sounds like a very precise way to do engineering...
They do that to tractor tires but that’s for extra weight. My buddy is a tractor mechanic and had one of those water filled tires fall on his leg and it broke his leg.
it could be a fluid that stays as a liquid under the air pressure inside of the tire and gas in the atmosphere, but depending on how hot it gets in there it could vaporize into a gas instead. most fluids probably won't have the same heat capacity as water though.
I wonder how hard it becomes to dynamically balance that wheel with water weight in it? I’m sure there’s a point of diminishing returns with that as far as the balance goes but that’s an interesting theory. Any way to keep that rubber cooler for longer is going to give you more time between stops for fresh rubber.
I feel like that would add a challenge of large pressure increases as the tire warms up. Water expands 1600 times as it turns to vapor. Should the water get hot enough to steam up inside the tire...could make things interesting.
They wouldn't be changing the moisture content of the tire, but the moisture content of the air inside. Depending on the exact wording of the rules, it could be "legal"
Cooling the tires as well as dynamically balancing the tires both seem like engineering design protocols that could increase performance at the same time as improving reliability and safety. To my mind it would be a practice worth exploring as a potential recommended best practice. My bet is the water doesn't cool at all but might facilitate redistribution of heat to the sidewalls. The whole concept might be worthy of close study.
I'm not fully familiar with f1 procedures but in other series, when tires are delivered the first thing the team does is drain the air (oxygen) and replace with nitrogen. I suppose they could just as well drain and fill with "heavy" oxygen with a high level of moisture but it seems the heat build up pressure would expand more than the benefit of the water content. Things above my knowledge IQ
There are millions of tires on the road with dynamic balancing fluids or beads in them specifically to keep the tires nearly perfectly balanced. I do not know if water would be suitable for such a purpose as viscosity likely matters.
There are some materials that when heated may release a certain amount of impregnated water or fluids sort of like a chemical sponge. Maybe certain rubbers, for instance.
You need to transfer the heat from the hot rubber tire to the air cooled aluminum or carbon rim. How?: Water in the tire gets hot, starts steaming and goes to the cold side which is the rim, then condensation drops back to the tire due to centrifugal force. There you go, water cooled tires using the rim as a heat radiator.
Do the teams have control/possession of the wheel rims? They could be made with a channel that is perforated or a porous metal or absorbent band on the inside that can release water under hot conditionsnand absorb it after for inspections
This sounds unreasonable. Most tyres are filled with dry N2 precisely so that tire pressures are stable. Adding compressed air, with its content of moisture instead would be a mistake wouldn't it?
Adding air then using the tire heater might trigger condensation from the air added. I guess it depends on how much the rubber flexes maybe? If they feel like pandering to them, put those little cell phone moisture stickers on the inside rim of the tire.
If you have a compressor that has not been drained you can put air and water into a tyre or condensation from the moisture in that compressed air from heating up the tyre?
It wouldn’t be hard to add a “Dummy “ Line extension to the existing Air Line. Using the same air filling chuck and hose with a small modified inline moisture water extractor like used when painting cars just hooked up in reverse… Trying to follow a small air Line from the source to 4 tires around a full pit crew and a full size race car!! With all the chaos of a pit stop too!! 🏎️ Some are smaller than the size of a Red Bull can and could be ran through a safety jacket sleeve nobody would see unless caught attaching it which would literally take only 2 or 3 seconds in one motion using the fast connect valve stem chucks used in racing.
I was in the RedBull pits at the first Miami race. I saw another team bleed out their air compressor and there was a gallon of rusty water in that tank. I have seen this moisture build up in every tank in my garage. It could be a beneficial accident, but I don't think it would be happening in F1 unless someone is doing it on purpose.
It's almost incredible how many exceptional properties a trivial substance like water possesses. One might imagine that F1 engineering teams focus on cutting-edge materials, yet plain water (with a small percentage of additives) is still used even in cooling systems. Beyond that, water plays a crucial role in other high-tech applications, such as in nuclear power plants for cooling reactors and moderating neutrons, and in the application of wrapping decals in motorsports, where water aids in positioning and adhesion. Its unparalleled thermal capacity, surface tension, and versatility make it indispensable in technologies ranging from advanced machining to laser cooling systems.
All old tires after every race are destroyed I thought there's videos of them cutting the tires at the end of a race. How would they not see water in the tire.
Use 100% coolant and not water. It works well and at speed helps balance the assembly out. But if you put a tiny bit too much it will become a problem. 👍
“Oops, I forgot to drain the air compressor “
Exactly my thoughts 😂🎉
Yup!
damn, had my air compressor in the bahamas last week for a vacation, forgot to drain it, oops😂
It says they come pre-aired 🤡
beat me too it :D
Does this suspicion hold any water? 🤔
😂😂😂
The defense is wrong! There is no way these tire tracks were made by a '64 Buick Skylark.
How would Red Bull even know? Maybe those teams have a leak.
@@depan55the ‘64 skylark didn’t have positraction !!
@@obewonknobeeyes we just watched the same video you did
"Me adding water to my tiers expecting the little Dacia Sandero perform like a F1 car"
"Bad news, the Dacia sandero has been delayed...... anyways"
tiers 🥴
Top *tire* comment!
tyres or tires Not tiers
Ahh yes add water to the everyday tires will do noting to the balance of them.
Well duh they added Red Bull to the tires. Nothing suspicious about that
Explains the wings on the tires (At least the Good Years)
Red Bull suspects other teams of doing something they tried themselves but found out it doesn't work...
They're just throwing shit at a wall yo see what sticks.
It's all a big game.
Or the same as with Ferrari where the other teams(rb and mercedes if i remember correct) found out How They did make ekstra engine power… and after that Ferrari worked with fia for such things being harder to do
It's not that it didn't work, the FIA worked with Pirelli made the rules against it by forbidding teams to change moisture contents of the tyres. Though it was never mentioned how good it worked.
Yes, before it was outlawed.
@@aberamagold7509Just like McKaren
There should be a racing series that lets engineers do whatever they want as long as it’s safe.
6 wheels? Go for it. Water in tires? Absolutely.
Just anything and everything to make the best race car possible.
This exactly, majority of motorsports are credited way to much in the car community. And with the regulations to make the most "fair" competition make it the most uninteresting shit ever.
Just watch the CanAm series replays. That's what I do lol
we saw how fast canam died. one car is superior and the others refuse to race
With current technology it would be too dangerous. The car with the best cornering ability not bound by the rulebook would just snap the driver's neck.
it would be amazing just regulate top speed and hp/tq or displacement to classes to keep it interesting.
This water tactic shouldn't even be illegal, anything that improves the performance of the cars without risking the safety of the driver should be allowed. Makes the sport more interesting and innovative
Unstable and rotational weight is probably the last thing a team will add to the car.
Unfortunately the FIA disagree, look at Williams car development through the 90's a lot of the innovative technology they came up with was eventually banned, some simply because they were a while 2 seconds faster than there competitors. For instance things like adaptive suspension, and traction control. Even the adaptive wheel alignment on the steering wheel that mercedes came out with I think got banned.
@@didrikhalsoy5994don’t you think that water evaporates into a gas at 80°C (176°F)????????
@raymonschepers994 not at all. To become a gass the temperature needs to be higher as 100°C. And the pressure is much higher. 2 bar pressure already makes it 140°C
You're right, being back the v10s
yeah they probably saw some water on rims, in Brazil
😂
It turned out all that moisture was actually George Russell's sweat
Yeah just a little
As someone with a thermal dynamics cert…. This makes very little sense. Okay yes water can cool things that are hot. If it is applied directly. Water doesn’t actually cool anything. It absorbs heat. And there is only so much heat water can absorb before it flashes into steam. There’s absolutely no way a F1 team can predict the flash point of water in a pressurized tire. Even worse there’s zero way to predict how the tires air pressure will change during a stint if there’s water flashing and condensing inside the tire. Dumb.
@@SidewaysEightSix yeah but thet are desperate
Singapore was probably too humid 😂
Exactly what I’m thinking. If they really are filling from tanks and not compressors then condensation would be rampant
Air compressors generally have moisture buildup in them. Normally you drain the water out of our compressors periodically so it would be very easy to add a small amount of water in the line and have it inserted in the tire. I’m not sure if they use nitrogen in these tires.
They use dry compressed nitrogen from bottles.
Also decent compressors have a dryer built into them. But like he said , I reckon nitrogen is used instead of air
Definitely just nitrogen. I don't know of anyone using air at such a profession racing level.
@@jamesmilne6351 I would assume they’re using high-pressure bottles of nitrogen. Either way it’s still be easy to add water to them as the inflate and deflate for track temp and conditions. Although this is a lot of speculation because those marks on the tires could be when they mount them as these are very difficult tires to mount. So there is a compound they use on the edge of the tire and wheel. If they were adding water, it wouldn’t show it running from the wheel onto the tire. and wouldn’t they be smart enough to wipe it off. So again this is just one of those things that’s probably nothing and taken to an Nth degree.😅
Problem with water in the tire, if it vaporizes your pressures go through the roof and you likely end up worse off.
This. Water in tires is very dangerous on track.
A thing to note is adding something like alcohol and putting the water under pressure increases the boiling point of water.
at the pressures used inside tires, water wouldnt boil until like 500 degrees F
@Scotty-vs4lf you realize that the tire pressure of an F1 car is way lower than your average road car, right? It will absolutely boil.
They already under inflate to compensate for the air expansion so Im pretty sure the nerds behind the scenes could also calculate for the 50g of water/vapour of that 50g and how much it increases in pressure also.
Next Horner will be telling us that McLaren are eating the dogs 💀
And the cats
And the bulls 😱
And more dogs
And the horses
And my axe!
I don’t remember exactly why, but at work we were talking about water in tires (acting as balancing beads in a way) and then I pointed out half the year was freezing and driving with gigantic chunks chunks of ice would probably be nearly impossible.
Beet juice is what they use in tractor tires in the winter, granted a lot more than for use as balance beads. The sugar content reduces its freezing point.
Redbull are good with making things up out of thin air. Like when they were complaining about the Mercedes rear wing in 2021 moving large amounts when there was video analysis by loads of people to say it wasn’t.
How is it made up out of thin air if it is something teams have done in the past, to the point where it was banned? Do you think before you speak?
On top of that redBull did do this back in the day and they found it made some difference and the people that helped with the project at The time has moved on to other teams so its not out of thin air. Its highly probable.
Wasn’t that Merc’s front wing that was moving?
Did Hamilton not get disq from quali cuz a Wing was failing the relegations?
@@SanixxsxThe wing was 2mm wider than it should have. So not related to the rear wing mowing
Yes, Pirelli delivers the tyres with air. But teams are free to inflate/deflate the tyres to what suits the car and track.
With nitrogen. Which is dry. Try again buddy!
@@cherriberri8373 Where did I state otherwise? What part of my comment was wrong and where do I have to "try again"?
There must be some footage or evidence to what they claim. Wouldn't Pirelli and the FIA be aware of this?
Yes and there is zero proof they are just moaning
Clearly you’re Redbull fan
@@eze__95 Yes. I am. I’m questioning the claim because personally, I can’t see how a team could do this without officials knowing.
If they have footage or evidence, then they should show it.
@@okuhtttf What would nitrogen do? I believe teams used it in the past.
@@okuhtttf its not necessarily that the water is expected to absorb the heat but it could help spread heat around the rim more evenly. RedBull themselves have done it in the past so of course they are aware of how it would work and the effects. It was outlawed because teams were doing it. so to claim it has no benefit is silly. If it had no benefit, teams wouldnt do it, so it wouldnt need to be outlawed in the first place. the vid says as little as 50g. RB only say that even that much could make a difference meaning its not like they have to fill the tyre.
Air compressors naturally have water condensation build up if you don’t regularly drain/empty the tanks at night. A team could use that as an excuse if ever caught
I thought they used nitrogen, not air.
F1 is basically everybody fighting hard together to combat engineering innovations
F1 teams: Pure nitrogen makes tyre temperatures more consistant.
Also F1 teams: we fill the tyres with water
I thought nitrogen was chosen so as to displace any oxygen in the tyres & reduce the risk of fire/explosion in an accident
@@lzh4950 no
@lzh4950 it's more stable as far as expansion with heat, is the primary reason I've ever heard it being used for tires. Consistent pressures (or at least more consistent) across temperature range which helps provide more predictable handling characteristics compared to using standard atmosphere to fill tires.
@@goosenotmaverick1156 Nitrogen use in road cars has various benefits:
- a bit more stable (lesser???) expansion as tires heat up (atmospheric compressed air has water in it, as humidity, and most of the expansion is made by water vapor increasing volume more than nitrogen)
- the same water vapor and oxigen, at pressure, seep slowly thru the tire's rubber from the inside (not by the rim: actually thru the rubber itself)..... by the time, it can degrade the internal, metallic, tire's carcass degrading/oxidizing it, degrading performance/safety over time
In a race car, the first factor (more predictability) is probably more benficial than the second (valid more for year-long used tires on everyday roads): using one only, stable, gas, rather than a variable mixture of atmospheric compressed air (it varies by the weather, location and all sort of factors) it makes simpler to predict performance based only on race usage cases. (simpler simulations/predictions of handling???)
Any mechanic in a shop that maintains an air compression would tell you that water builds up in the bottom of a tank. If you do not empty that water, the air that you put in tires becomes humid. The 50 grams sounds about right because the psi of those tires is like 27 I think. They're getting away with it because the water is already in the air compressor. The reason why there's water on the rims is because those tires get worn out so fast that the water will start permeating out of any crack that it can find its way out of.
And Max said that it's just McLaren that has whined the whole year... Should we just accept that this year all of the top teams have been trying to get everything and anything in their rival's car outlawed.
As every year in f1.
THANK YOU
@@petersiep Well, basically yes. However, somehow I've gotten the feeling that the race to get rival's stuff outlawed has been even more rampant this year than in the few years prior.
If you've followed F1 for a very long time this is quite normal. It's been this way since forever. Lauda got Hunt's car banned, Mercedes had Ferrari's engined outlawed a couple of seasons ago, the whole X-Wing thing of the late 90's, to mention an iota of the accusations ans complaints made by teams, teams are always complaining about something.
Already outlawed.
Some tires are known to sweat by nature of the rubber compound being so insulating. A natural factor may be ground wave interference such as a form of Radiolysis and static effects perhaps from glue residues maybe like a run flat tyre such as Continentals ContiSeal. Other brands use the self sealant coating inside aswell. Some other aspects may be some brands such as Michelin are known to be more silicone rich, an aspect of silicone is oxygen bonds, so it could be a byproduct of heat of tyre wear, and maybe colder weather from wind drafts perhaps, cold storage or sweat from heat or temperature of air as if you remove a valve core the air coming out can ice up and splutter as you see with the pressure coating the valve stem white in residue from moisture in the air inside and rate of release maybe akin to forming a condensate.
The rules being "broken" here are:
a. Tyres may only be inflated with air or nitrogen.
b. Any process the intent of which is to reduce the amount of moisture in the tyre and/or
in its inflation gas is forbidden.
Air isn't a specific gas and sometimes air contains more moisture than other times. And the rule forbids the REDUCTION of moisture, doesn't say anything about adding moisture. Nothing illegal about it.
Easy. Use 99%+ saturated air to air up the tire. Like during a rainstorm.
I would say that they use something else, like isopropyl alcohol. It doesn't affect moisture content in air (so everything is according to rules), it evaporates easy and doesn't affect pressures so much. Most of rubber compounds are resistant to it, and even if, slight degradation of interior shouldn't be problem during 1-2 hour usage of tyre.
Alcohol is not Air or Nitrogen so adding alcohol would be a rule violation.
It suprises me every time what you can do to an car so genius
Am I the only one that finds it funny these allegations are never made by a top team until they begin to fall?
Hows it get heat to the rim? Surely the water would be constantly againt the inside of the tyre not the rim. Also wouldnt the water heating up keep heat inside the tyre?
It evaporates against the tire then condensates against the rim, creating a cycle. Just like the melting salt in some exhaust valves.
@PatriotBelgica wouldnt water boil at about 110° ish at that pressure? The inside can't be getting that hot surely?
Centrifugal force when the tyre spins would keep the water at the rubber walls on the inside of the tyre tread. I'm not sure if the vehicles can get slow enough for the water to drip down to the tyres, but the evaporative theory makes more sense
@@1st-Le-On Yeah with the added pressure it likely wouldn't boil, and it would change the balance of the tires, no idea if it would help transfer heat to the rims.
@@1st-Le-Onf1 tires are designed to operate at around 100c, yes, they really do get that hot.
Standardize humidity sensors inside tires. This will regulate the use of water. Baseline the tires humidity, then ensure all driver's tires are equal during the race.
Literally all the comments before this one were bots... How sad.
Wtf is happening???
You weren’t even exaggerating haha… 5 bots right in a row.
Get used to it. My comment may also be a bit.
I saw the flag, you’re either mental or a bot
I’d love to see a race with no restrictions/limitations
Eh it would be very easy to explain some moisture in the tires. Just say that we forgot to drain the tanks on the air compressors and that’s how the fluid got in there. It happens ass the tome
except Pirelli prefills all tires and it's nitrogen which has no moisture.
Ass the tome all day
Kahoot ah rims 😂
F1 used to be about courageous innovations. Now it is about bans and restrictions. It beceme over-regulated years ago
Air compressors build up water in the storage tank as they run. Depending on the humidity they can accumulate quite a bit of moisture in a really short amount of time even with a filter on them. Even with a desiccant air dryer you will still get some moisture and im not sure that would even be available to them. I don't know if that would be enough moisture to detect seeping from the bead of the tire and rim.
Too many rules and restrictions these days. It's not about racing anymore.
Such a boomer comment.. the racing has been better from front to the back of the grid for the first time in ages.. these cars make racing so much more fun to watch, they’re harder to drive than the previous era’s they’re heavier, bigger and need more skill, the drivers needed to adjust everything about their previous driving style to compliment the new era of cars and now we are finally seeing competitive racing.. i think you forget the previous few era’s has been complete domination by one team, Ferrari with Schumacher then there was a grace period from about 2005 to 2009 where anyone could’ve won, then Seb, Hamilton and Max.. we are finally seeing proper hard racing now. Enjoy it, technology will ALWAYS be part of f1.. it’s why it’s the best motorsport on the planet.
@Snotzalotz OK, calm down. I was actually referring to the era BEFORE Schumacher-Ferrari. As an older fan, I've seen the transitions and developments happen in real time, and most of them have been for the better. But if you think this iteration is more exciting than watching Senna battle his own Lotus, drifting round bends to victory, then you need your head checked. Yes. Progress is progress, and things have had to change for the sake of safety. That's fine. But let's agree that the stewards need to keep their noses out a little more. Finally, keep your boomer rhetoric to yourself. Without them, you and I wouldn't be here.
I’ve always added Gear oil to my gocart tires. Keeps tire temps down and it’s a great way to know if I have any bead leaks. Also makes swapping tires a breeze.
What exactly does “RedBull itself has explored this tactic” mean? lol. Come on, we all know what that means. They did it themselves so they know it when they see it.
If you really listen closely, you'll hear them say Red Bull explored it before it was illegal to do so, and that some of the people who worked on it, have since left Red Bull for other teams
It means they did it before. And they made it clear by saying “before it was outlawed”
Did it before regulations were changed, can't u listen?
It amazes me that people cant listen to an entire 30 second short. Do people just immediately start typing when a thought pops in their head???
@@elijahmeinhard4780 Next we will have 5 second clips because these kids cant keep an attention span of 30 sec.
You don't need a lot of water to massively improve the heat distribution in something.
Some say Brown likes his scrambled eggs with Horner's tears for a more intense flavor.
Funny your story does not coincide with lando’s points
he could use lando's tears from brazil instead now.
@@SimplyV3rna that's why he said Horner and not Max you pleb. Mclaren are ahead in the constructors
@@SimplyV3rna Funny how McLaren took the Constructors and where did Red Bull finish? lol
I used to do this on my car when I would take it to the track. Didn't help much if any with traction, however I did notice the tires lasted longer when I put a little water in them. Like a cup or two of water would make my tires last 2 to 3 runs longer than no water.
It works! A youtuber did test it with a burnout. Welded rear axle. New tyres one with only air and one with water + fairy dishwashing fluid. The air only lasted like 2 minutes but the one with water lasted 10 minutes of constant burnout and when it popped it became a foam party
what did he add the soap for?
What was the purpose of that?
I'm really interested what soap does chemically to cool down the tire even more.
@rolux4853 They only did it to make a foam bath when it exploads 😂
Honestly I’d put that more up to an age difference of the rubber than any possibility of enhanced cooling from water. All water vapor does is mess with tire pressure, that’s why I do the nitrogen fill just to get rid of the humidity so that the tire pressure light doesn’t come on every time it goes above 90f in the summer or below 20f in the winter.
Ho yeah... a youtuber... So it means that in racing conditions for F1 that try to race in an optimum temperature range, it will improve the time....
Ho wait, sometimes they struggle to keep the heat in the tyres, and in the same race, it heats up too much cause the conditions changed.
Yeah... sounds like a very precise way to do engineering...
@@fabr5747 wow you sound so butthurt over someone just sharing information from video… get a life.
When I make the tire slower because the added weight is rotational momentum, causing it to be harder to get up to speed
Whats up with all the bots 😂
They do that to tractor tires but that’s for extra weight. My buddy is a tractor mechanic and had one of those water filled tires fall on his leg and it broke his leg.
We'll find out in a few races. If mclaren pace drops this might hold some water 😂.
So maybe just pull tire off and check!? A wild idea 😂
Ferrari and McLaren have been notably better on tyre life than Redbull, this could be why or at least making it more pronounced
The first tire closeup almost looks like the Google's famous "G" logo
This is the same team done overspend above allocated spend limit but said that extra money is on team food
You could use the airs humidity to condense a small amount of water undetected if you use the right pump
Can redbull just stop complaining and actually improve their car?
Agree
you're talking as if they are the only team that does it lmao every top team do the exact same
Hilarious coming from a McLaren fan when Zak Brown moans about everything
@@MeltingRubberZ28 Christian Horner moans about everything and anything as well
test the tires that come off the car during the race . have an official at the pitstop take possession of tire as soon as the pitstop ends
They are using the well-known technique of: "Hawk Tuah"🤣
Don't drain the air compressors condensation, it'll spray water in every time you add air. Simple to do undetected
it could be a fluid that stays as a liquid under the air pressure inside of the tire and gas in the atmosphere, but depending on how hot it gets in there it could vaporize into a gas instead. most fluids probably won't have the same heat capacity as water though.
Liquid vaporizing would increase tire pressures dramatically. Probably catastrophically.
Compressed Air has moister unless they use nitrogen instead of air.
We really need a race where nothing is banned.
I wonder how hard it becomes to dynamically balance that wheel with water weight in it? I’m sure there’s a point of diminishing returns with that as far as the balance goes but that’s an interesting theory. Any way to keep that rubber cooler for longer is going to give you more time between stops for fresh rubber.
I feel like that would add a challenge of large pressure increases as the tire warms up. Water expands 1600 times as it turns to vapor. Should the water get hot enough to steam up inside the tire...could make things interesting.
They wouldn't be changing the moisture content of the tire, but the moisture content of the air inside. Depending on the exact wording of the rules, it could be "legal"
Water cooling. Also the heat would cause the tire to expand with the steam giving more grip.
Cooling the tires as well as dynamically balancing the tires both seem like engineering design protocols that could increase performance at the same time as improving reliability and safety. To my mind it would be a practice worth exploring as a potential recommended best practice. My bet is the water doesn't cool at all but might facilitate redistribution of heat to the sidewalls. The whole concept might be worthy of close study.
I'm not fully familiar with f1 procedures but in other series, when tires are delivered the first thing the team does is drain the air (oxygen) and replace with nitrogen.
I suppose they could just as well drain and fill with "heavy" oxygen with a high level of moisture but it seems the heat build up pressure would expand more than the benefit of the water content.
Things above my knowledge IQ
This is wild because unstable and rotational weight is the last thing I’d think a team would want to add to their car.
There are millions of tires on the road with dynamic balancing fluids or beads in them specifically to keep the tires nearly perfectly balanced. I do not know if water would be suitable for such a purpose as viscosity likely matters.
I hate how this sport does everything possible to eliminate competition.
They do a first lap just to heat up the tires so they can make faster corners, than they gotta keep than cooled to make them run longer 🤔
There are some materials that when heated may release a certain amount of impregnated water or fluids sort of like a chemical sponge. Maybe certain rubbers, for instance.
Or just take a syringe and inject 50ml of water lol.
You need to transfer the heat from the hot rubber tire to the air cooled aluminum or carbon rim.
How?:
Water in the tire gets hot, starts steaming and goes to the cold side which is the rim, then condensation drops back to the tire due to centrifugal force.
There you go, water cooled tires using the rim as a heat radiator.
I thought outside of the tire changing pit crew, no one but perelli people even allowed to touch the tires.
Was honestly expecting them to come out and say that they were adding Red Bull into the tires to even the tables lol
imagine how innovative they could be with no rules
Do the teams have control/possession of the wheel rims? They could be made with a channel that is perforated or a porous metal or absorbent band on the inside that can release water under hot conditionsnand absorb it after for inspections
some kind of liquid sure, but I doubt its water because of the steam causing odd pressure changes
Seems like it would also greatly affect tire pressure to.
If you know your chemistry…. This has zero merit
Why would this be a rule violation?
Use water IN tires or not, who cares?😮...
This sounds unreasonable. Most tyres are filled with dry N2 precisely so that tire pressures are stable. Adding compressed air, with its content of moisture instead would be a mistake wouldn't it?
What if the water is cooking
Adding air then using the tire heater might trigger condensation from the air added. I guess it depends on how much the rubber flexes maybe?
If they feel like pandering to them, put those little cell phone moisture stickers on the inside rim of the tire.
Not allowed to chance the moisture content of the air in the tires? Add olive oil instead
That would be a rule violation as it is neither air or nitrogen.
If you have a compressor that has not been drained you can put air and water into a tyre or condensation from the moisture in that compressed air from heating up the tyre?
My dog always pees on the neighbours car tyres good to know he is helping out
how do they get the fluid to stick to the rim?
The technical rules are dumb. Let the teams innovate.
It wont just cool the tire some but it will better the balance of the tyre.
I don't know why they would. The tyres would vibrate like crazy at their speeds, reducing grip, I would have thought
It wouldn’t be hard to add a “Dummy “ Line extension to the existing Air Line. Using the same air filling chuck and hose with a small modified inline moisture water extractor like used when painting cars just hooked up in reverse…
Trying to follow a small air Line from the source to 4 tires around a full pit crew and a full size race car!! With all the chaos of a pit stop too!! 🏎️
Some are smaller than the size of a Red Bull can and could be ran through a safety jacket sleeve nobody would see unless caught attaching it which would literally take only 2 or 3 seconds in one motion using the fast connect valve stem chucks used in racing.
I wasn’t looking at first and I heard “maple is getting suspicious” and that took me out 💀
I was in the RedBull pits at the first Miami race. I saw another team bleed out their air compressor and there was a gallon of rusty water in that tank. I have seen this moisture build up in every tank in my garage. It could be a beneficial accident, but I don't think it would be happening in F1 unless someone is doing it on purpose.
Random however; ugliest wheels in F1 history
Tyres are filled with nitrogen, not air, easy to test afterwards if there's water in them
It's almost incredible how many exceptional properties a trivial substance like water possesses. One might imagine that F1 engineering teams focus on cutting-edge materials, yet plain water (with a small percentage of additives) is still used even in cooling systems. Beyond that, water plays a crucial role in other high-tech applications, such as in nuclear power plants for cooling reactors and moderating neutrons, and in the application of wrapping decals in motorsports, where water aids in positioning and adhesion. Its unparalleled thermal capacity, surface tension, and versatility make it indispensable in technologies ranging from advanced machining to laser cooling systems.
It would not need to be just water. It could be also coolant or any medium that would transfer heat
All old tires after every race are destroyed I thought there's videos of them cutting the tires at the end of a race. How would they not see water in the tire.
I’m not to familiar with the sport but don’t u want hot or atleast warm tires for grip during the race??
Wouldnt that cause quite a bit of pressure change over the heating cycle while they already use nitrogen to keep that effect on a minimum
Why is preserving tires and preventing high speed blowouts outlawed again? Why isn't everyone doing this?
Use 100% coolant and not water. It works well and at speed helps balance the assembly out. But if you put a tiny bit too much it will become a problem. 👍
You do realise that coolant is only used to reduce corrosion and prevent freezing...?
It's got practically zero point in an f1 car.
He says the word tactic and a picture of a tattoo shows up 😂😂
Dry air doesn't state a specific humidity level ! How dry is 'dry'.