There was an interesting bit of information in that study regarding how much protein actually made it in to muscle tissue and it looked like the smaller protein group was more efficient using the amount consumed. It would be really great if someone were to replicate this study but also use a condition that has 25g 4 times, at 0, 3, 6, and 9 hours to see if that holds up and is more efficient than 100g at 0 hours.
It's not a surprising result tbh, animals need to be able to process proteins efficiently when they get them and in nature theres no guarantee on the timing or amounts so just being better at it overall is something that you would expect to naturally evolve.
That's what my brosciencrbro argument was when I heard that there's some kinda limit to absorption, it makes no sense, protein is like gold or platinum for the body why would it not make accomodation for more of it
@@oceanmanggI agree. It never made a lot of sense of me that you spend 6000 calories chasing down an 200lb elk and then your body can only use 40g of that protein per meal?
I ve been eating 2 meals a day for a while know because I like to eat big and this way I feel full for longer. My workouts are the same and I haven t lost muscle . I saw that at 3 meals I get fat but at 2 I maintain my weight which is what I want. I see a common theme with nutrition and even training. there are no set in stone rules. it matters ultimately that at the end of day (or on average over a few days at least) you have consumed all macros and micros in the required amounts for you. the body is smart enough to adapt to your lifestyle. YOU CAN MAKE THE RULES, not necessarily the other way around
@@K-rypto it would change the amount of food per meal (I did say I like to eat big meals) and it would also be more inconvenient for me to prepare another meal. ....I m more than fine with 2 meals, I don t see a problem with it . I gave my example so that I put it out there for others to see it can be done this way as well. as I said, it matters not how many meals or the hour of the day or if you drink water before or after or any bullsheet claims like these, it matters that you meet your needs in your own way....be it 1 meal or 6 meals or 10...it s irrelevant in the grand scheme of things especially if it fits your personality/lifestyle/goals/preferences/body etc
Great info!! Look a little deeper. We have enough to plan for without worrying if we're doing the right thing. Out body can sort so many things to suit itself.
I've been looking for this info for the past few weeks. I've heard both sides of things, but couldn't figure out which studies seemed more reliable. This info is going to help me tremendously moving forward.
Do you think this is different if the 100g of protein, instead of milk, is taken as a fast-digesting protein shake like whey? Some days it's easier to just get the majority of my protein from one or two shakes because that allows me to be more flexible. I take pea protein, though, but I guess that's still relatively fast-digesting compared to a real meal.
I think the entire point of the study in the video was to show the novel technique, which allowed them to take measurements for 12 hours. So, the answer doesn't exist yet? Studies I could find showed pea protein is similar to milk for the first 4 hours.
Milk protein is mostly casein, which is one of the slowest proteins out there, while something like EAA powder is *extremely* fast. If you eat protein with fiber and fat, they will get "slower" as well, while a shake "hits the spot" instantly. The studies that suggest that using more than 40g of protein is useless used whey shakes and you know what, they are right. So is this study. There is no single number.
@@Balorngdid the 40g measure the full time required, and also do this after exercise? Protein synthesis won't be any higher with more protein if you don't stimulate it to use everything it can.
The only thing i'll say to the recommendations is how does a meal before sleep affect your sleep quality aka the majority of your recovery? I've been seeing some things indicating eating before bed affects your sleep quality and thus could have a lot of impacts elsewhere
@@richardbrady1849 MASS Officer hours addresses this. In general, don’t eat fatty or spicy foods before bed; it affects most people falling asleep. Not REM
If eating right before bed negatively effects your sleep, there is nothing wrong with setting up your meal times so that you eat a few hours before bed. As we see from this video, we used to be very particular about getting protein in before bed. Usually a slow digesting casein. But turns out as long as your overall protein is high, that protein synthesis effect will be carried longer.
I don't care to have a heavy meal at that time. I do often have a whey shake (don't talk to me about casein, I hate it) around an hour/hour and 1/2 before bed, to no ill effect.
Maybe the serotonergic effect of carbs helps sleep. I always slept pretty well after a carb heavy meal at night. I want more data on the effects on deep sleep though. @@gokukakarot1855
I couldn't have an extra meal before bed - I've been having a protein shake, using clear whey isolate, an hour before I go to bed. It's very light on the stomach so I haven't felt at all bloated when going to bed & it hasn't affected me getting to sleep.
00:07:13 This is very interesting .... it sounds like protein is (almost) not metabolized into fat past certain threshold? That is the implication I get from Prof. Tromlin saying that out of 20 grams of extra protein, 2 grams will be oxidized and 18 will be reserved for anabolic metabolism pathways. Am I reading too much into it?
great video. Perhaps also worth considering that with the larger dose of protein, then leucine is less likely to be limiting factor. Especially for larger guys
So I guess it says if your protein grams per day are 150, you could eat 100 in the morning and 50 at dinner and that’s the same impact for muscle synthesis as 40/40/40 meals + a 30 gram shake before bed or something. Even though he recommends the latter approach, his research shows you have the flexibility to do the former, if preferred.
probably not going to amount to much. But the study in question only compared 25 to 100. the 100g had 13% go to muscle, while the 25g had 17%. if you ate 25g x 4 across the day, would it have been 4x17% and be slightly higher then the single dose? Who knows. If it did, and it added ~3% units more, would anyone realistically notice? Would it ultimately add up to a real difference. Probably not.
@@frankjames6276yes, but also there's the fine print of tracer amino reuse over 12hrs and also the fact that 100g muscle synthesis wasn't yet done after the 12hr study window.
Not only does this channel cover tons of science but it's delivered by someone with a realistic physique. Not some dude juiced out of his mind, you can get doc wolfes physique naturally
The constant eating multiple times per day was a marketting tactic to sell more protein supplements. If we are led to believe our protein needs to be spread out, then we are more likely to opt for convenience such as protein shakes.
There is one but very important step missing, concernig protein digestion. It is Point No. 4. After The Amino Acids entered the venous Blood out of the smal intestines they are directet to the liver. The Livere then stores them, or makes glucose out of them or releases them into the vena cava inferior. The Liver will maintain a steady amount of Aminos in your Blood. Otherwise there would be some severe Health Issues to deal with.
Who knows but based on other studies it doesn't do a thing for muscle building if it's the regular intake. I actually wondered a similar thing this week. Since a lot of energy demands are discussed more in terms of weekly schedule than daily schedule these days, would it be out of this world to think that having a very skewed protein intake days from little to a lot didn't hurt the gains that much if the weekly intake is the same. The only thing I could think regarding that is how the increased muscle protein synthesis seems to happen maybe at best 48 hours from training so perhaps that's the limitation, but 48 hours is a long time to vary the protein intake. And we're assumedly still talking about average, it might just be that depending on conditions you might still benefit longer for the training induced muscle protein synthesis. Would be happy to hear more educated takes on it or if there's research regarding that.
There is going to be some kind of limit of usage until the body turns it into fat and/or removes it from the body. If there wasn’t than no one would be fat because your body is just always waiting to use that energy without really storing it.
If the study used milk protein, much of which is casein, how much of this effect can be explained by casein's slow absorption? How sure are we it's broadly applicable to protein?
Casein is not even a very slow absorbing protein in general. The whole thing about casein is pretty much misinterpreted based on a comparison with whey. Don't worry about that.
I'm surprised the "distribution" group was still set up as only a single 25 g meal. I would've thought the most natural and realistic comparison would be 4x25 g in one day vs 1x100 g in one day. I think the conclusions made here might have been very different in that case (in favour of the distributed protein intake). Maybe something to check in future studies?
So for those of us who love our numbers, equations and optimization, we could take our goal protein for the day P divide it by 24 to get goal protein per hour then multiply that by hours until next meal to get an estimated goal for that meals protein?
@@michaelkuehn10 what if your meals aren't spread evenly? If you eat 4 meals each 3hrs apart would you want that 4th meal to have 1/2 your protein to create a bolus effect prolong absorption and distribution until you get to your next meal 15 hours later?
No. For those of you who love numbers, divide your daily protein intake in enjoyable food sources across your meals the way you prefer them and how they make sense in different dishes, like morning porridge breakfast having perhaps less protein than steak dinner. The whole point of this study was to find out if there's a limit to how much protein you can take advantage over per meal, and it showed that you don't have to worry about eating as much as 100 grams in one meal if your daily meal patterns happen to get out of whack. There's also those time restricted feeding studies mentioned in the video where people ate their daily meals in like 4 hour feeding window without really meaningful losses in gains (statistically you might be able to say there was a difference but in practice it's tough to say if there was a difference).
I would like to see a similar study but with another 2 groups with more (or too much) calories. This would be to see if oxidation rates would elevate. In the real study, was oxidation Not elevated cuz the caloric needs were matched or at needed levels and not surplus?
The study uses milk protein, which is slower digesting (as you mention). Is this total protein intake approach affected by the type of protein and rate of absorption/digestion? For example, if it was 100g of whey isolate instead of milk in its whole food matrix, would more protein be lost to energy substrates?
I never understood it from an evolutionary perspective. Throughout all of human history until the last 5 minutes (evolutionarily spekaing) we would have had periods of days at a time without protein, then we'd get a successful hunt, and due to lack of refrigeration and preservation, likely eat the entire deer over the course of a day. It simply doesnt make sense that we would have made it here today if we couldn't use it. I went Animal Based+OMAD (180-250g of protein in a single meal), dropped from 328-183lb in under a year and lost no muscle or strength. I sure as hell didn't gain much, but didn't lose any, certainly not any appreciable amounts.
Dr Milo, how does eating keto affect amount of protein needed? I'm high-protein keto (to manage a medical condition) so a large percentage of my fuel for energy purposes comes from protein (inc. gluconeogenesis). I know 1.6g/kg is enough for hypertrophy but I eat more than that, just for satiety.
How long does protein take to synthesize, If I workout int he morning, does my last meal of the day contribute to the muscle I trained earlier that day, or to the one I will train the next morning?
Where does the leucine threshold figure in all of this? Presumably you would still need a minimum of 25-50g of quality protein per meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis (depending on age) but these smaller servings are theoretically better than a 100g serving if the leucine threshold theory is correct. For example you will spike mps twice as often if you have say have 50g protein feedings instead of 100g protein feedings, this is irrespective of the fact that the 100g servings still get utilised.
That's not how it works. Leucine is important but there's no lower limit to trigger it, the 3g is to maximize synthesis. And it doesn't make sense to spike MPS twice if the once runs for twice as long at the same rate? And your training still matters most or pretty much zero will go to your muscles beyond to repair regular breakdown.
@@mikafoxx2717 According to the Leucine threshold theory that is how it works. The research shows that mps increased due to Leucine concentrations elevated in the blood typically only lasts for 1.5-3 hours, even though the concentration of Leucine and other amino acids can remain elevated in the blood for far longer. In order to maximally stimulate mps again, the Leucine concentration in the blood has to drop below a set concentration, which occurs 4-6 hours after the protein/Leucine is first ingested.
@@asprinklingofclouds Thing is, that's false. This study clearly showed that leucine was stored in the muscle tissue even well after protein digestion ends, which makes the muscle still synthesize more of itself, using amino acids that were used for other tissues with a high turnover rate which get recycled. Read the paper in detail if you want, it's a very very good study.
@@mikafoxx2717 I am not in disagreement on the findings of this study, but the other research shows that muscle protein synthesis via enhanced mTOR signalling doesn't improve above a certain leucine threshold. If you only need say 50g of protein to optimise mTOR then you would be better off having 2 meals of 50g protein five hours apart than having 100g all at once, because you will signalling mTOR twice as often.
@@asprinklingofclouds mTOR also responds to energy as well, not just protein, perhaps that's why they found a cap to that. This study found that mTOR activity decreased but muscle synthesis was still elevated, using bodily stores. It seems when you eat a lot of protein, your body uses pretty much all of it to build more organ tissue and such, but they also constantly break down between meals and often gets recycled or burned for energy slowly, but in this case the muscle synthesis uses the protein from organs and whatnot as they shrink some from catabolism, but the muscle has leucine stored inside it to signal the body had plenty of protein and your exercise stimulated it go be stored there, so it grows despite low mTOR. I mean, you can read the study, it shows mTOR and muscle synthesis aren't as closely knit as we thought. Plus, we can see people eating once per day that build or maintain a lot of muscle, which shouldn't be possible if that weren't true. Do snakes have mTOR raised for several days or weeks as they digest something that's possibly larger than they are? Suppose it's possible.
I’ve always wondered about this because I like all you can eat places. Usually I don’t eat at all during the day, getting a good workout, and then eat 4-5 pounds of steak. And then don’t eat until the next day
I may have misunderstood, so eating all of your protein in one meal is better because that protein will be used for muscle building protein synthesis at a higher rate than small protein meals ?
Well I feel pretty vindicated. Always seemed obvious it takes longer to digest a steak than the whey bolus they use for those studies, cool to know even then organs are also getting a better benefit on top of muscles still getting it. Makes all the sense in the world.
The gist… Stop worrying about potential optimization and just do the basics. They’re responsible for 95%+ of your results and anything else may help you get that last little bit… but almost NO ONE is needs to be getting that last little bit yet.
What happens when the host can’t answer a question about the topic at hand? Use a distractor issue or concept to say or write something irrelevant to make it look like the question was answered.
The breaking of the overnight fast and fasted weight training session, is usually done with 100+ grams of protein from various sources. Further intake is always protein centric. I do it that whey because it suits me, ( aids satiation ), and not because of some random human control trial or lab rat / mice experiments. Find what suits YOU!
A meal less than ca. 3 hours before sleep may impact your sleep quality. Personally, I've often found that eating a meal with more than ca. 0.25 grams of protein per Kg body weight can be somewhat taxing, and I see it too on my Garmin stress score.
@@Yupppi It doesn't make me feel stressed in the usual sense of the word. But eating a big meal, makes me want to relax and take it easy. It is basically my body telling me to divert more resources to digestion. Garmin's watches has a stress meter, where they measure in real time how relaxed or stressed/exited your body is. It bumps up my stress score after a big meal - meaning my body is using more of its resources. Both my parents have done a long faste (40 days with nothing but water and "soupe"). They both talked about feeling more mental energy because the body didn't spend energy digesting.
Γιατρέ τι γνώμη έχεις για αυτό που λέει η Gabriel Lyon ότι άμα είσαι πάνω από 30 χρόνων πρέπει να παίρνεις μίνιμουμ 30 γρ αλλιώς παίζει να αποθηκευτούν σαν υδατάνθρακες
it's more letting people STOP worrying so much about protein intake. did you even watch the video? they literally said protein distribution is debunked, as long as you get the daily protein goal
To add to the first reply, there are many things that can give you 1%. And even if individually it doesn't matter as much, if you add 10 of those things together, that's 10% extra gains. Or, if you think that you need 5 years to achieve the physique you need, that will shave off 7 months. That's very substantial, but if we ignore every addition to your life that can add 1%, we are leaving some serious gains on the table.
This makes it look like you can gobble down endless amounts of proteins each sitting, to constantly have high levels of synthesis... But there has to be some sort of cap, otherwise the "grams of protein per kg of bodyweight" recommendations would make no sense. I wish they tested having at least one more meal later down the road, higher in protein for the 25g, and close to nothing for the 100g
Well no, this illustrates that total daily protein intake is important while timing of said intake matters very little to not at all. There is still an upper limit on how much protein your body can use in a day, it just doesn't have to be fed it bit by bit.
@@rebornstillbornyour body has an upper limit for protein synthesis rate. It'll be raised pretty much all day and night on 140g or more for most people. This group with 100g still were in positive protein synthesis rate after 12hrs and that's still less than the recommended intake per day for muscle building.
@@rebornstillborn The first point isn't really that clear, as they didn't check for another meal. Since the 100g group had significantly higher synthesis levels throughout the day, it does seem to suggest you should stack on protein as much as possible to not only keep constant levels, but reach high ones too. The second point isn't really thouroughly tested, IMHO, for the same reason as above: there wasn't another meal to check for in the following 12 hours. Would the 25g (which is also a bit low tbh) group reach more stable and high levels, with the following meals? Not to mention, if you gobble down 100g of protein in one sitting, chances are the next one(s?) won't have much instead. So, it didn't truly account for a full 24-hour cycle, a normal day. I definitely wouldn't take this study as the basis to start moving almost my entire protein needs on one meal per day.
@pandajohn5911 you don't know who I'm talking about?? There's a guy at the top of all the fitness video comment sections with like a cartoon corgi flexing and gets thousands of likes lol I see him all over the place, but go to anything with Mike Isretel and you'll find him! His comments are actually hilarious
I am interested in the science behind the metabolic way in which food is processed by our bodies, especially as it relates to body building. Your “don’t worry about 1% of difference tells me you don’t know crap about how macronutrients process through the system. You’re clearly not interested in the scientific explanations of how nutrition plays out in our bodies. Therefore whatever you state on this Chanel is at best mediocre and insufficiently understood. Let serious nutritionists explain a concept too complicated for you to grasp.
The study only looks at protein intake in your meal IMMEDIATELY after a work-out. It does not look at protein intake in your other meals. Another issue is, if this study is true and representative to other meals, then daily protein need of 1.6/kg of bodyweight is thrown completely out the window. What is the new protein recommendation I ask? Is it not 100 g per meal? so 400 g of protein per day? that just seems impossible. if there is no limit to utility of protein intake for muscle building then we should see far more muscle growth in people who eat 200-400-600 g of protein per day compared to say 100 g/day. We don't see that.
It explains it perfectly. It takes longer to digest and synthesis stays raised for longer. When synthesis is raised pretty much the entire time, pretty much as high as it can be, you'll have reached the maximum. 100g in one meal still raised muscle synthesis beyond their 12hr study window, 150g would be pretty much up to 24 hrs.
None of it changed it’s always the same our bodies doesn’t change based on findings lol Also these studies are always so bad shit changes everyday sometimes even going back to old things lol
It’s pretty clear you’re really not a nutritionist. You seem to be just ball spitting your answers. All you are doing is confusing people without any supporting evidence. The metabolic process is complicated and you have less than a clue about its process.
There was an interesting bit of information in that study regarding how much protein actually made it in to muscle tissue and it looked like the smaller protein group was more efficient using the amount consumed. It would be really great if someone were to replicate this study but also use a condition that has 25g 4 times, at 0, 3, 6, and 9 hours to see if that holds up and is more efficient than 100g at 0 hours.
It's not a surprising result tbh, animals need to be able to process proteins efficiently when they get them and in nature theres no guarantee on the timing or amounts so just being better at it overall is something that you would expect to naturally evolve.
That's what my brosciencrbro argument was when I heard that there's some kinda limit to absorption, it makes no sense, protein is like gold or platinum for the body why would it not make accomodation for more of it
@oceanmangg I wish more bro science followed that kind of logical thinking. A little more science, a little less bro.
@@oceanmanggI agree. It never made a lot of sense of me that you spend 6000 calories chasing down an 200lb elk and then your body can only use 40g of that protein per meal?
I ve been eating 2 meals a day for a while know because I like to eat big and this way I feel full for longer. My workouts are the same and I haven t lost muscle . I saw that at 3 meals I get fat but at 2 I maintain my weight which is what I want. I see a common theme with nutrition and even training. there are no set in stone rules. it matters ultimately that at the end of day (or on average over a few days at least) you have consumed all macros and micros in the required amounts for you. the body is smart enough to adapt to your lifestyle. YOU CAN MAKE THE RULES, not necessarily the other way around
You getting fat from eating 3 meals is because of energy balance and not frequency of meals.
@@sbsnate2312 yes, eating 3 meals meant I consumed too many calories so my sweet spot is 2 meals
@@aisac21 U know u can split those 2 meals calories into 3?right and it wouldnt change a thing
@@K-ryptoHe does know. He doesn't want to because he prefers larger meals. He said as much in his first comment. It makes sense
@@K-rypto it would change the amount of food per meal (I did say I like to eat big meals) and it would also be more inconvenient for me to prepare another meal. ....I m more than fine with 2 meals, I don t see a problem with it . I gave my example so that I put it out there for others to see it can be done this way as well. as I said, it matters not how many meals or the hour of the day or if you drink water before or after or any bullsheet claims like these, it matters that you meet your needs in your own way....be it 1 meal or 6 meals or 10...it s irrelevant in the grand scheme of things especially if it fits your personality/lifestyle/goals/preferences/body etc
Great video. He put his knowledge in really simply understandable package and easy to apply practical take on top of it.
Milo, thank you for sharing this important information. Also, finally somebody pronounces Jorn's name correctly. That was a relief.
Great info!! Look a little deeper. We have enough to plan for without worrying if we're doing the right thing. Out body can sort so many things to suit itself.
I've been looking for this info for the past few weeks. I've heard both sides of things, but couldn't figure out which studies seemed more reliable. This info is going to help me tremendously moving forward.
Nice Study Wolf! Loved this!
Bro gave us a biochemistry lesson in this one
Any difference in the type of protein you take in? Plant protein vs Milk protein and or isolates?
Do you think this is different if the 100g of protein, instead of milk, is taken as a fast-digesting protein shake like whey? Some days it's easier to just get the majority of my protein from one or two shakes because that allows me to be more flexible. I take pea protein, though, but I guess that's still relatively fast-digesting compared to a real meal.
I think the entire point of the study in the video was to show the novel technique, which allowed them to take measurements for 12 hours. So, the answer doesn't exist yet? Studies I could find showed pea protein is similar to milk for the first 4 hours.
Milk protein is mostly casein, which is one of the slowest proteins out there, while something like EAA powder is *extremely* fast. If you eat protein with fiber and fat, they will get "slower" as well, while a shake "hits the spot" instantly. The studies that suggest that using more than 40g of protein is useless used whey shakes and you know what, they are right. So is this study. There is no single number.
@@Balorngdid the 40g measure the full time required, and also do this after exercise? Protein synthesis won't be any higher with more protein if you don't stimulate it to use everything it can.
The only thing i'll say to the recommendations is how does a meal before sleep affect your sleep quality aka the majority of your recovery? I've been seeing some things indicating eating before bed affects your sleep quality and thus could have a lot of impacts elsewhere
@@richardbrady1849 MASS Officer hours addresses this. In general, don’t eat fatty or spicy foods before bed; it affects most people falling asleep. Not REM
If eating right before bed negatively effects your sleep, there is nothing wrong with setting up your meal times so that you eat a few hours before bed. As we see from this video, we used to be very particular about getting protein in before bed. Usually a slow digesting casein. But turns out as long as your overall protein is high, that protein synthesis effect will be carried longer.
I don't care to have a heavy meal at that time. I do often have a whey shake (don't talk to me about casein, I hate it) around an hour/hour and 1/2 before bed, to no ill effect.
Maybe the serotonergic effect of carbs helps sleep. I always slept pretty well after a carb heavy meal at night. I want more data on the effects on deep sleep though. @@gokukakarot1855
I couldn't have an extra meal before bed - I've been having a protein shake, using clear whey isolate, an hour before I go to bed. It's very light on the stomach so I haven't felt at all bloated when going to bed & it hasn't affected me getting to sleep.
00:07:13 This is very interesting .... it sounds like protein is (almost) not metabolized into fat past certain threshold? That is the implication I get from Prof. Tromlin saying that out of 20 grams of extra protein, 2 grams will be oxidized and 18 will be reserved for anabolic metabolism pathways. Am I reading too much into it?
great video. Perhaps also worth considering that with the larger dose of protein, then leucine is less likely to be limiting factor. Especially for larger guys
So I guess it says if your protein grams per day are 150, you could eat 100 in the morning and 50 at dinner and that’s the same impact for muscle synthesis as 40/40/40 meals + a 30 gram shake before bed or something. Even though he recommends the latter approach, his research shows you have the flexibility to do the former, if preferred.
probably not going to amount to much. But the study in question only compared 25 to 100. the 100g had 13% go to muscle, while the 25g had 17%. if you ate 25g x 4 across the day, would it have been 4x17% and be slightly higher then the single dose? Who knows.
If it did, and it added ~3% units more, would anyone realistically notice? Would it ultimately add up to a real difference. Probably not.
@@frankjames6276yes, but also there's the fine print of tracer amino reuse over 12hrs and also the fact that 100g muscle synthesis wasn't yet done after the 12hr study window.
Not only does this channel cover tons of science but it's delivered by someone with a realistic physique. Not some dude juiced out of his mind, you can get doc wolfes physique naturally
This is great information.
The constant eating multiple times per day was a marketting tactic to sell more protein supplements. If we are led to believe our protein needs to be spread out, then we are more likely to opt for convenience such as protein shakes.
There is one but very important step missing, concernig protein digestion. It is Point No. 4. After The Amino Acids entered the venous Blood out of the smal intestines they are directet to the liver. The Livere then stores them, or makes glucose out of them or releases them into the vena cava inferior. The Liver will maintain a steady amount of Aminos in your Blood. Otherwise there would be some severe Health Issues to deal with.
So, what happens about like 300g of protein in a day? Does it keep being distributed for like, the two next days?
Who knows but based on other studies it doesn't do a thing for muscle building if it's the regular intake. I actually wondered a similar thing this week. Since a lot of energy demands are discussed more in terms of weekly schedule than daily schedule these days, would it be out of this world to think that having a very skewed protein intake days from little to a lot didn't hurt the gains that much if the weekly intake is the same. The only thing I could think regarding that is how the increased muscle protein synthesis seems to happen maybe at best 48 hours from training so perhaps that's the limitation, but 48 hours is a long time to vary the protein intake. And we're assumedly still talking about average, it might just be that depending on conditions you might still benefit longer for the training induced muscle protein synthesis. Would be happy to hear more educated takes on it or if there's research regarding that.
There is going to be some kind of limit of usage until the body turns it into fat and/or removes it from the body.
If there wasn’t than no one would be fat because your body is just always waiting to use that energy without really storing it.
Unlkely, my guess is the greater distribrituion in the 100g group can mostly explained by slower digestion.
If the study used milk protein, much of which is casein, how much of this effect can be explained by casein's slow absorption? How sure are we it's broadly applicable to protein?
Casein is not even a very slow absorbing protein in general. The whole thing about casein is pretty much misinterpreted based on a comparison with whey. Don't worry about that.
You made a lot of gym bros very happy.
I'm surprised the "distribution" group was still set up as only a single 25 g meal. I would've thought the most natural and realistic comparison would be 4x25 g in one day vs 1x100 g in one day. I think the conclusions made here might have been very different in that case (in favour of the distributed protein intake). Maybe something to check in future studies?
It's nice to know that if you have a light protein meal, you're not ruining your gains if you've eaten enough throughout the day.
So for those of us who love our numbers, equations and optimization, we could take our goal protein for the day P divide it by 24 to get goal protein per hour then multiply that by hours until next meal to get an estimated goal for that meals protein?
Why do this when you can divide protein goal by number of meals?
@@michaelkuehn10so that if meals are closer together you eat less relative protein at those meals
@@michaelkuehn10 what if your meals aren't spread evenly? If you eat 4 meals each 3hrs apart would you want that 4th meal to have 1/2 your protein to create a bolus effect prolong absorption and distribution until you get to your next meal 15 hours later?
No. For those of you who love numbers, divide your daily protein intake in enjoyable food sources across your meals the way you prefer them and how they make sense in different dishes, like morning porridge breakfast having perhaps less protein than steak dinner. The whole point of this study was to find out if there's a limit to how much protein you can take advantage over per meal, and it showed that you don't have to worry about eating as much as 100 grams in one meal if your daily meal patterns happen to get out of whack. There's also those time restricted feeding studies mentioned in the video where people ate their daily meals in like 4 hour feeding window without really meaningful losses in gains (statistically you might be able to say there was a difference but in practice it's tough to say if there was a difference).
I would like to see a similar study but with another 2 groups with more (or too much) calories. This would be to see if oxidation rates would elevate. In the real study, was oxidation Not elevated cuz the caloric needs were matched or at needed levels and not surplus?
The study uses milk protein, which is slower digesting (as you mention). Is this total protein intake approach affected by the type of protein and rate of absorption/digestion? For example, if it was 100g of whey isolate instead of milk in its whole food matrix, would more protein be lost to energy substrates?
But what if you eat 4 meals of 25g over 12 hours?
Same amount total, but how it will affect mps over time?
I never understood it from an evolutionary perspective.
Throughout all of human history until the last 5 minutes (evolutionarily spekaing) we would have had periods of days at a time without protein, then we'd get a successful hunt, and due to lack of refrigeration and preservation, likely eat the entire deer over the course of a day. It simply doesnt make sense that we would have made it here today if we couldn't use it.
I went Animal Based+OMAD (180-250g of protein in a single meal), dropped from 328-183lb in under a year and lost no muscle or strength. I sure as hell didn't gain much, but didn't lose any, certainly not any appreciable amounts.
Dr Milo, how does eating keto affect amount of protein needed? I'm high-protein keto (to manage a medical condition) so a large percentage of my fuel for energy purposes comes from protein (inc. gluconeogenesis). I know 1.6g/kg is enough for hypertrophy but I eat more than that, just for satiety.
thanks dr.
How long does protein take to synthesize, If I workout int he morning, does my last meal of the day contribute to the muscle I trained earlier that day, or to the one I will train the next morning?
I would like yo see data using other protein sources as well.
Yo I see that Tesco meal deal didn’t realise bro was from the UK
The conclusion-- eat before sleep -- doesn't make sense considering the 12 hour effect previously described.
Waiting for this video
Where does the leucine threshold figure in all of this? Presumably you would still need a minimum of 25-50g of quality protein per meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis (depending on age) but these smaller servings are theoretically better than a 100g serving if the leucine threshold theory is correct. For example you will spike mps twice as often if you have say have 50g protein feedings instead of 100g protein feedings, this is irrespective of the fact that the 100g servings still get utilised.
That's not how it works. Leucine is important but there's no lower limit to trigger it, the 3g is to maximize synthesis. And it doesn't make sense to spike MPS twice if the once runs for twice as long at the same rate? And your training still matters most or pretty much zero will go to your muscles beyond to repair regular breakdown.
@@mikafoxx2717
According to the Leucine threshold theory that is how it works. The research shows that mps increased due to Leucine concentrations elevated in the blood typically only lasts for 1.5-3 hours, even though the concentration of Leucine and other amino acids can remain elevated in the blood for far longer. In order to maximally stimulate mps again, the Leucine concentration in the blood has to drop below a set concentration, which occurs 4-6 hours after the protein/Leucine is first ingested.
@@asprinklingofclouds Thing is, that's false. This study clearly showed that leucine was stored in the muscle tissue even well after protein digestion ends, which makes the muscle still synthesize more of itself, using amino acids that were used for other tissues with a high turnover rate which get recycled. Read the paper in detail if you want, it's a very very good study.
@@mikafoxx2717 I am not in disagreement on the findings of this study, but the other research shows that muscle protein synthesis via enhanced mTOR signalling doesn't improve above a certain leucine threshold. If you only need say 50g of protein to optimise mTOR then you would be better off having 2 meals of 50g protein five hours apart than having 100g all at once, because you will signalling mTOR twice as often.
@@asprinklingofclouds mTOR also responds to energy as well, not just protein, perhaps that's why they found a cap to that. This study found that mTOR activity decreased but muscle synthesis was still elevated, using bodily stores. It seems when you eat a lot of protein, your body uses pretty much all of it to build more organ tissue and such, but they also constantly break down between meals and often gets recycled or burned for energy slowly, but in this case the muscle synthesis uses the protein from organs and whatnot as they shrink some from catabolism, but the muscle has leucine stored inside it to signal the body had plenty of protein and your exercise stimulated it go be stored there, so it grows despite low mTOR. I mean, you can read the study, it shows mTOR and muscle synthesis aren't as closely knit as we thought. Plus, we can see people eating once per day that build or maintain a lot of muscle, which shouldn't be possible if that weren't true. Do snakes have mTOR raised for several days or weeks as they digest something that's possibly larger than they are? Suppose it's possible.
Why do you actually need protein if all food intake turns into glucose?
How do you measure the actual uptake of protein?
the Docs Barbell Medicine have been saying this for years
I’ve always wondered about this because I like all you can eat places. Usually I don’t eat at all during the day, getting a good workout, and then eat 4-5 pounds of steak. And then don’t eat until the next day
I may have misunderstood, so eating all of your protein in one meal is better because that protein will be used for muscle building protein synthesis at a higher rate than small protein meals ?
No it’s just not as detrimental as previously thought when compared to spacing your meals out
Well I feel pretty vindicated. Always seemed obvious it takes longer to digest a steak than the whey bolus they use for those studies, cool to know even then organs are also getting a better benefit on top of muscles still getting it. Makes all the sense in the world.
The gist…
Stop worrying about potential optimization and just do the basics. They’re responsible for 95%+ of your results and anything else may help you get that last little bit… but almost NO ONE is needs to be getting that last little bit yet.
Dude did science on protein farts
But what if you did not work out that day. Can your body still use 100 grams of protein for muscle building?
I've made great gains with OMAD. Eat that.
Oooooh! Fiber hypertrophy!!! That’s a new one
What happens when the host can’t answer a question about the topic at hand? Use a distractor issue or concept to say or write something irrelevant to make it look like the question was answered.
For the algorithm
Why are you a sheep?
Content = Top! Cringe Thumbnails = Flop!
The breaking of the overnight fast and fasted weight training session, is usually done with 100+ grams of protein from various sources. Further intake is always protein centric. I do it that whey because it suits me, ( aids satiation ), and not because of some random human control trial or lab rat / mice experiments.
Find what suits YOU!
no duh, you act like explaining a study means milo is now demanding all casual lifters to eat exactly like the interviewee's recommendation
@@ippanpedrozo1162 I end in saying... Find what works best for you.
You absorb it later.
Thank you for the information. For. The. Algorithm.
I wonder if you get the same results if you drank 100 grams of whey protein. Something tells me you wouldn't.
A meal less than ca. 3 hours before sleep may impact your sleep quality.
Personally, I've often found that eating a meal with more than ca. 0.25 grams of protein per Kg body weight can be somewhat taxing, and I see it too on my Garmin stress score.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "taxing" and "stress score"? Like eating food making you very stressed out and anxious?
@@Yupppi It doesn't make me feel stressed in the usual sense of the word. But eating a big meal, makes me want to relax and take it easy. It is basically my body telling me to divert more resources to digestion. Garmin's watches has a stress meter, where they measure in real time how relaxed or stressed/exited your body is. It bumps up my stress score after a big meal - meaning my body is using more of its resources. Both my parents have done a long faste (40 days with nothing but water and "soupe"). They both talked about feeling more mental energy because the body didn't spend energy digesting.
Γιατρέ τι γνώμη έχεις για αυτό που λέει η Gabriel Lyon ότι άμα είσαι πάνω από 30 χρόνων πρέπει να παίρνεις μίνιμουμ 30 γρ αλλιώς παίζει να αποθηκευτούν σαν υδατάνθρακες
Would like to see the studies where that’s confirmed. IMHO, Mrs. Lyon is too much invested herself in carnivore/keto camp…
Get your protein, when you can. Hit the daily target. Easy enough.
I like 5 hamburgers!!
Stop worrying about stuff that maybe makes a 1% difference at best.
At a competitive level even a 1% can poison victory. People here are very serious the one who aren't are watching Greg Doucette.
Thanks Stronger by Science viewer, that's the right attitude towards knowledge.
it's more letting people STOP worrying so much about protein intake. did you even watch the video? they literally said protein distribution is debunked, as long as you get the daily protein goal
To add to the first reply, there are many things that can give you 1%. And even if individually it doesn't matter as much, if you add 10 of those things together, that's 10% extra gains. Or, if you think that you need 5 years to achieve the physique you need, that will shave off 7 months. That's very substantial, but if we ignore every addition to your life that can add 1%, we are leaving some serious gains on the table.
@@JayjeetDeshmukh1do competitive level athletes really watch RUclips bloggers though?
It gives you horrendous farts that smell like sulphur
This guy should stick to photos
Great video
Big Milk strikes back.
great
I knew... ))
Cool
Sponsored by Tesco Meal Deal😂
❤💯
🎉🎉
This makes it look like you can gobble down endless amounts of proteins each sitting, to constantly have high levels of synthesis... But there has to be some sort of cap, otherwise the "grams of protein per kg of bodyweight" recommendations would make no sense. I wish they tested having at least one more meal later down the road, higher in protein for the 25g, and close to nothing for the 100g
Well no, this illustrates that total daily protein intake is important while timing of said intake matters very little to not at all.
There is still an upper limit on how much protein your body can use in a day, it just doesn't have to be fed it bit by bit.
@@rebornstillbornyour body has an upper limit for protein synthesis rate. It'll be raised pretty much all day and night on 140g or more for most people. This group with 100g still were in positive protein synthesis rate after 12hrs and that's still less than the recommended intake per day for muscle building.
@@rebornstillborn The first point isn't really that clear, as they didn't check for another meal. Since the 100g group had significantly higher synthesis levels throughout the day, it does seem to suggest you should stack on protein as much as possible to not only keep constant levels, but reach high ones too. The second point isn't really thouroughly tested, IMHO, for the same reason as above: there wasn't another meal to check for in the following 12 hours. Would the 25g (which is also a bit low tbh) group reach more stable and high levels, with the following meals? Not to mention, if you gobble down 100g of protein in one sitting, chances are the next one(s?) won't have much instead. So, it didn't truly account for a full 24-hour cycle, a normal day. I definitely wouldn't take this study as the basis to start moving almost my entire protein needs on one meal per day.
Whey protein absorbs quickly but whole foods take a lot longer so results would be different
turns to sugar, save 10 minutes of your life for something usefull
Just here waiting for the guy with the dog picture to come collect his 3k+ likes
What
who
bro just revealed a whole new level of fandom 🥹
@pandajohn5911 you don't know who I'm talking about?? There's a guy at the top of all the fitness video comment sections with like a cartoon corgi flexing and gets thousands of likes lol
I see him all over the place, but go to anything with Mike Isretel and you'll find him! His comments are actually hilarious
I am interested in the science behind the metabolic way in which food is processed by our bodies, especially as it relates to body building. Your “don’t worry about 1% of difference tells me you don’t know crap about how macronutrients process through the system. You’re clearly not interested in the scientific explanations of how nutrition plays out in our bodies. Therefore whatever you state on this Chanel is at best mediocre and insufficiently understood. Let serious nutritionists explain a concept too complicated for you to grasp.
The study only looks at protein intake in your meal IMMEDIATELY after a work-out. It does not look at protein intake in your other meals. Another issue is, if this study is true and representative to other meals, then daily protein need of 1.6/kg of bodyweight is thrown completely out the window. What is the new protein recommendation I ask? Is it not 100 g per meal? so 400 g of protein per day? that just seems impossible. if there is no limit to utility of protein intake for muscle building then we should see far more muscle growth in people who eat 200-400-600 g of protein per day compared to say 100 g/day. We don't see that.
It explains it perfectly. It takes longer to digest and synthesis stays raised for longer. When synthesis is raised pretty much the entire time, pretty much as high as it can be, you'll have reached the maximum. 100g in one meal still raised muscle synthesis beyond their 12hr study window, 150g would be pretty much up to 24 hrs.
None of it changed it’s always the same our bodies doesn’t change based on findings lol
Also these studies are always so bad shit changes everyday sometimes even going back to old things lol
No no excess protein turns into cortisol and makes you go catabolic.
What even is this discussion lol, no such thing as too much protein, just as much as there’s no such thing as too many snickers at once
I don't like this guy at all.
Why
Assuming gender! I'm ashamed of you.
i don’t like him either, i love him
@@FormlessJKD17 lol
Why do you actually need protein if all food intake turns into glucose?
How do you measure the actual uptake of protein?
All food dosent turn into Glucose immediately, all carbohydrates do, but fats and proteins are broken down and used for other bodily functions first.
you need essential amino acids because like the name suggests - they are essential.
It’s pretty clear you’re really not a nutritionist. You seem to be just ball spitting your answers. All you are doing is confusing people without any supporting evidence. The metabolic process is complicated and you have less than a clue about its process.