Don't Trust Your Contractor WITH SOUNDPROOFING
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- I hired a contractor to install drywall, along with resilient channels on the ceiling, in my basement music studio. I've had more impact noise than I expected, and decided to rip out the ceiling and build it again. As I was removing the old ceiling I discovered that the contractor's work was worse than I expected.
I'm building a music studio in my basement! Watch the full series here: • Basement Music Studio ...
Recommended Books
Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros (Rod Gervais)
Master Handbook of Acoustics (F. Alton Everest & Ken C. Pohlmann)
Questions we're tackling in this video series:
How to build a music studio.
How to build a music studio in a basement.
How to build a music studio in a home.
How to soundproof a room.
How to isolate a music room from the rest of the house.
How to build a soundproof door.
How to build acoustic treatment.
How to build acoustic panels.
How to build bass traps.
#homestudio #basementstudio #musicstudio #acoustics #acoustictreatment #acousticpanels #basstraps #soundproofing #soundisolation #recording #mixing #guitar #vocals
One thing that bears constant repeating is that building to high standards of acoustical isolation is a _highly specialized_ undertaking which demands a fanatical attention to detail and significantly more time and effort than standard construction. A tiny mistake can wreak havoc on the final product just like a small hole in your hull can sink your boat. Most contractors-through no fault of their own-are simply not educated in the fundamental principles of sound transmission loss and are likely to do things the way they've always done them unless guided by a firm hand.
This.
This is what my video is about. Showing how easily things can go wrong. I had multiple conversations with the contractor and his crew. I could tell they had limited experience, but it wasn’t their first time installing resilient channels. I talked with them about how to install resilient channels, how the drywall would be overlapped, and where to use the acoustic sealant. As I discovered, those conversations didn’t stick. I should have checked their work at every step instead of trusting that they followed my instructions.
The only disagreement I would say is that there is some fault on the contractor. In our initial conversations the contractor was trying to teach me about soundproofing. He eventually realized I knew more about the subject, but he still had trouble accepting my ideas. This is the part of the industry culture that sets everyone up for failure. Stick to what you know and don’t try to teach homeowners about things you don’t understand. You can see it in some of the other comments, how quickly contractors come to the defence of the contractor I had, or even saying how I should be building the ceiling. Unless you live in a city like Nashville, very few contractors have built soundproof rooms, and even fewer have done proper testing of the results at the end. Yet most are quick to share their “wisdom”.
"most contracts are not educated" that's how I would have put it.
@@simonbaxtermusic So do you think one would need to use acoustic sealant between the bottom edge of cornices and a brick wall.
@@PotatoesRniceyou have a brick wall in your studio? I’m not sure I understand the example as it relates to soundproofing.
@@simonbaxtermusic well actually I have 4 brick walls in my studio. So I am wondering about the joint between the plasterboards and the brick walls. I am using isolation mounts on ceiling
Def one thing I got from this video and have learned from other videos, is that those resilient channels don’t really work out that great with weight plus the screws going all the way thru. The sound clips with the rubber gasket seems to be a way better albeit more expensive solution. 🎉 good video! 🎉
Completely agree. I was trying to save ceiling height, but I’m rebuilding it with the isolation clips after all. Not worth the hassle.
You need sound board installed,
I feel for you, Ive been in this exact same situation before.
Not only is it a waste of money and your time but it’s terrible for the environment, just look at all of that unnecessary waste.
In my experience it’s only specialist sound proofing company’s that will do as good as job as you, it will cost more but it’s worth it.
With this framing u will never have real good Soundproof even If the contractor did Not These mistakes.
U Need build a free hanging construction or atleast a suspended ceeiling because u Not want the drywall ceeiling be connected with the Wood ceeiling, or If necessary only at least spots possible and than use Specialised Ankers.
And than use Specialised Soundproof Boards.
Like from Knauf 2x Diamond Board 12,5mm or even better silent Board.
That's terrible. I hope you let the contractor know that because they didn't follow your instructions you are basically redoing everything they did. Honestly they should have to redo it.
Honestly, I’m happier doing it myself than working with that contractor again. They did our whole basement and the end result is fine (apart from what I showed in this video), but trying to discuss anything with him nearly ended in an argument. He told me multiple times that I didn’t know how things work, and he was always looking for opportunities to charge more because this or that wasn’t part of the deal. And many other problems along the way.
This is not a safe amount of dust to expose yourself to or an adequate mask.
You’re probably right
@@simonbaxtermusic check yourself before you wreck yourself, cos dust in your lungs is bad for yo health
I'm working on a project of my own which started by removing plaster over drywall from the walls. I found that a diamond wheel for an angle grinder plus an attachment that essentially turned the angle grinder into a circular saw let me do the cutting and connect a vacuum to capture the dust. (My angle grinder and attachment are made by Makita.) It made for a MUCH cleaner work environment.
Wish I had that option!
Geeze. Get a new blade for your multi tool. Drywall is a breeze for multi tools. 🤷♂️
I remember the first time i swung a hammer
Never said I had the best technique 🤣
Rockwool or dense pack cellulose in the cavities. Perpendicular furing strips to attach the ceiling reduces bridging, layer of mass loaded vinyl, decoupling membrane, then drywall.
resilient channel is better for decoupling versus furring strips.
As a professional acoustics consultant, I have seen most of these issues more times than I can count. It's a specialist field for a reason, and even with professional consultation, it's all too easy to mess up the install if you're not extremely careful. A good learning experience to always supervise the contractor unless they are experts in the area.
It sounds like you know your stuff, and you are absolutely right about a lot of the points in the video. To address another comment, mass is crucial - two layers of boards are always better than one, not just for the mass, but also because it reduces the weak points between boards (as long as they are staggered properly).
If you are still having issues with impact noise after fixing the ceiling, a floating floor upstairs will be a huge help. You can also look at the GypFloor Silent systems (British Gypsum, or an American equivalent) - these help to isolate the floor above from the joists, and add mass, with the advantage of only raising the floor height by a few mm.
Thanks for the feedback and kind words. I read The Master Handbook of Acoustics and Rod Gervais' Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros. This is my chance to finally put all that knowledge to the test.
I've seen the GypFloor system before. I am hoping I'll get the chance to do something like that in the future. My wife and I will eventually do some main floor renovations, and that's when I'm most likely to give it a shot. I'm looking forward to testing the isolation after the doors are finished so I can get an accurate picture of what's still coming through the ceiling.
For sheet rock (drywall), use a box cutter next time to make your cuts, a lot less dust than using a circular saw. Also, for sound dampening, utilize Rockwool Sound insulation. It's incredibly great for that, as well as fire rated up to 2150°F. Now for the air gaps between the rafters/drywall/etc.. use zip system flex/stretch tape and roll it on. It'll create an air barrier that's incredibly tight.
Good to know about the box cutter, though hopefully I won’t need to do this again. 😁 I do have 2 layers of rockwool in the ceiling and more in the walls. The stretch tape would be a lot easier for air sealing. I had to look it up didn’t know what it was.
subscribed to see how much difference the sound isolation clips make. Would love to see you do some test while having someone walk upstairs. Great videos!
Thanks for the sub!
I've just have gone through this hasle, I let the contract know about the correct way to install resilient channels, screw sizes etc and wasn't enough, caught a lot of channels short circuiting agains the wall, 1"1/4 screws hitting the joists, resilient channels on wall upside down. I got them to fix most things but I'm sure there's still screws hitting studs somewhere, ceiling drywall that's butt up against the adjacent wall. In my case it's a legal basement suite so I decided to let it go, next time I'll do this myself because it's not worth it getting people to learn and understand the correct way of doing it, they don't care.
It’s so disappointing explaining the right way to do things and then they do it the wrong way. There are good contractors, but just as many poor ones it seems.
some good verb you got going on in there.
Man that is brutal my friend sorry you had to go thru that
I'm currently in the planning stages of my DIY basement home studio and your videos have so insightful. Thank you!
Glad I can help!
Nice Video, I think a lot of DIYers will get a lot of value from this, What result did you get after you did it all again?
Good results overall, though it seems it’s not possible to completely eliminate footsteps whenever the ceiling is connected to the floor above (even with rubber isolators). I’m currently editing that video, hope to have it up in the next week or two. I’m trying out a lot of different tests throughout the house, not just the floor immediately above. I’m noticing a substantial difference the further away the noise is. Doesn’t travel into the studio unless it’s very close.
@@simonbaxtermusic Genie clips are great and they out-perform most resilient bars….fixing them to an independent timber frame isolated from the conflicting ceiling with a concrete construction we find you should only expect a 50% human perceived reduction in impact noise from above…..if you got more than that….you have done very well.
@jimprior7 If I understand your example correctly, the advantage I have is that the walls are also connected using isolation clips. I had used resilient channels on the ceiling to save some height, but have rebuilt it with RSIC clips. So the walls and ceiling all have a rubber connection to the rest of the house.
What I hear now is dull thumps when kids are running directly above the studio. All of the high frequency sounds I was hearing before is gone.
Yes, sound issolation clips better than resilient channel. problem is, without mass and air space, you still won't hardly touch/eliminate bass low freq energy transfer!!! You can float walls/floor/ceiling all you want, but that rumbling from the trash truck outside or semi passing by will surely go right through any structure that's not heavy loaded barrier, plus air gap (larger distance gap the better), plus issolated stick frame construction plus treated drywall! Been here before myself when starting out in acoustics. Trial and error if you DIY, absolutely!
I understand the use of acoustic sealant in drywall joints, corners, etc. What is the utility of using the sealant sandwiched between drywall boards? Wouldn't you typically use some kind of acoustic treatment (i e. green glue, quiet glue pro) instead?
Asking because I'm in the process of planning a build and am wondering if this is an effective alternative to those more-expensive products.
Products like green glue do effectively seal the layers, but that’s nice byproduct. The main purpose is to dampen. It turns sound vibrations into heat which reduces sound transfer. The issue I’m tackling with the sealant is to ensure the each layer is a complete layer, to get the full value of the drywall. Where there’s unsealed gaps the sound travels directly to the next layer and you effectively have a single layer of drywall rather than 2 layers, for example. It’s a small detail, but it matters in soundproofing. In the same way that sealing an exterior wall will maximize climate control in the home.
So it’s not a replacement, to answer your question. Personally, I prefer adding more layers of drywall or plywood instead of green glue. I’m posting my next video this week where I rebuild the ceiling. That might give you some ideas as well.
Wait, I think I misunderstood your question. I didn’t use any sealant in between layers except where there are seams between sheets of drywall. There wasn’t any sealant sandwiched between drywall layers.
Gotcha: I think I misunderstood what you were finding as their mistake as well. It wasn't that they didn't use it between sheets of drywall: I see now that you were noting that they hadn't even used it in the seams of the inner layer of drywall, just in a few areas of the entire project.
I look forward to the next video. I think I'm probably going to go with some carpet glue between the layers of drywall and acoustic sealant as they should have done, in the seams between drywall on a given layer and at corners.
Great post thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
That’s super frustrating, I’ve always avoided contractors for reasons like that. Bailey resilient channel works reasonably well if installed correctly, but is super unforgiving (I’ve done 4 rooms with it). Though, I once had a house with 9’ ceilings in the basement, so I ran a separate set of joists on top of 8’ walls in a “room within a room” concept. It was awesome.
That is the dream build! If I had the ceiling height I definitely would have built a detached ceiling.
“Avoid Contractors”??? so who are you going to contract when you need plumbing? Who are you going to contract when you need a roof done or to build you a custom home? Maybe you guys are just looking at the wrong guys that are calling themselves contractors with no experience.
@@carlosizurieta885 I meant specifically for soundproofing applications. It’s a super niche specialty and easy to get wrong.
But, since you brought it up, for plumbing, electrical, and framing projects a homeowner can pull their own permits in my area. Code books aren’t hard to read and a lot of things you’re going to do in a house can be accomplished with a handful of tools and/or rentals (or at least that’s been my experience in many, many years of home ownership). I enjoy doing the work myself, the projects move on my timeline, and I have yet to fail an inspection for anything.
Do I think I’m as good as a pro? Certainly not, but the work I do is good enough, and there are a ome things I won’t mess around with, like structural repairs since I’m not a p.eng, but yeah. Now, if you have no interest in doing any of that, by all means go find a contractor.
@@carlosizurieta885not at all what I said. The title is “don’t trust your contractor WITH SOUNDPROOFING“. In the video I say to be careful which tasks you do vs the contractor, and if the contractor is doing anything soundproofing related check their work. I used an HVAC contractor for my studio and they were fantastic.
In your contract, you could have had a list of every single little detail with 3d drawings of each critical overlap, transition, key locations etc. the contractor could have provided a list of each of these too along with their quote. All of this of course had anybody realized the depth of a proper install. I’ve been remodeling for 25 years. I specialize in custom finish carpentry. Extremely detailed person. You will NEVER get the result you want unless you do all your research and all your work yourself. I walk into peoples houses and immediately to myself I’m picking apart the trim work. 😂 I’d advise any further projects you take on with details like this. Don’t even spend time looking for a contractor. Do it on your own.
Also. If you don’t know anything about drywall, guess what you’re learning.
If you don’t have a tool for that, guess what you’re buying.
You can’t get the material to the job, guess what you’re figuring out.
As a contractor I can tell you that having a set of plans that detail proper installation is very important when having a specialty installation done. A good set of plans and instructions will clear up confusion for the contractor. Also, a good set of drawings and instructions supplied to the contractor sets you up for a much easier time of suing the contractor for correcting mistakes caused by his ignoring the instructions.
Just wonder what is the ceiling height?
After the rebuild it’s 7’ 2”. With the resilient channels it was around 7’ 4”.
@@simonbaxtermusic Thanks for the respond.
* Don't Trust Your Contractor WITH ANYTHING
I've had success with other contractors on typical home projects. Soundproofing is a specialized field though, and easy for regular contractors to underestimate.
You’re wasting your time.
He's still going to hear those footsteps! lol ..
@@RyanMagicAus I know!he needs to take the floor upstairs out, decouple the subfloor, then Add 1/2 rubber membrane, then the floor. Maybe that might work
2 layers of 5/8s overtop of Resilience Channels will not vibrate with sound, it's far too heavy. 2 layers is designed for Fire Rating, not sound dampening.
That makes senses logically, but the manufacturer has detailed installation instructions and recommends using up to 2 layers of 5/8” drywall. Whether it can vibrate or not with that much weight would depend on the properties of the metal. You might be right, but I didn’t come across anything about it in the instructions.
5/8” is recommended for sound dampening because of the weight. Mass is the number 1 way to attenuate sound.
@simonbaxtermusic “Don’t trust your contractor with Soundproofing”????. I think the problem here is, you didn’t do your due diligence, and went with probably the cheapest quote and 100% the less of experienced drywall contractor. Just watching you pull down the first layer of drywall, and seeing how the installer went inline with the resilient channel installed of going cross direction with the Res Channel tells me these guys are not experienced with sound reduction. These guys are not contractors, They’re just workers that don’t have the concept of sound reduction.
What’s the thickness of the Rockwool?
Have you heard of a product called SONOpan?
By the way, you went with the most basic method of sound proofing which clearly didn’t help. This is what you usually use in the typical legal dwelling basement.
Don't call out the contractor, your the boss on the job say something during not after.
I think the best to use is SONOpan , lose the metal straps .
Its a good topic but you will never have true soundproof that a whole different animal . Remerber there no perferfect in construction .
I had many conversations with the contractor and his crew throughout the job. As I mentioned in the video, they didn’t follow my instructions. As for SONOpan, they actually recommend using it with resilient channels. That product is a whole discussion on its own and I’ll be getting to that in a future video.
@@simonbaxtermusic I just hate seeing the "bad contractor video" I've been in business a long time its hard for small business and lot of times its not black and white .
I know resilient channels are taught in carpenter schools and it can be a grey area area sound proofing .The panel I used them helped but not soundproof .In all the jobs I've done not one customer asked for soundproofing because of the extra money and very few customers had the knowledge of good sound equipment .So you're a rare breed which is good do your homework lots of good videos out there.
I respect the fact your fixing and educating yourself you have to being a homeowner also makes it easy when you hire new contractors the'll know what you want.
Good topic and video
I hear that. I never expected this video to take off and get the attention of contractors. I’m a tiny channel, still learning RUclips. My drywall contractor was terrible and I was too far into the project by the time I realized just how bad he and his team was. My goal was to share that experience, not take a shot at every contractor. I used an HVAC contractor for the studio and he was amazing. Open, curious, willing to try new things and learn. We figured it out together.
honestly you just tried to save money, shame on you for posting this.