The Extent of Speed Conservation
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Previously, I showed how we could use speed conservation to conserve speed from HMC to the castle, and ultimately use it to get to the Secret Aquarium 0x [ • SM64 - Go to The Secre... ]. Since then, I've received many comments from people wondering whether this technique could be used in other situations as well, primarily whether we could bring speed upstairs and save A presses entering TTC and RR. Unfortunately, such suggestions grossly overestimate the extent of where we can conserve speed. In reality, conserving speed between levels can only be done in a very limited set of situations, and so it's not nearly as useful as one might think. Consequently, I wanted to clear this up once and for all, as I explain the true extent of speed conservation.
Here is a summary of where we can conserve speed. Within a level, we can conserve speed through being in water, holding onto poles, reading text, being in cutscenes, and holding onto the owl. Between levels, we can conserve speed when exiting out of a level, dying into a game over then resuming a save file, exiting DDD through the hatch, falling off in VCutM, and going into the sunken ship in JRB.
For more info on speed conservation and sliding speed, watch this video: • Sliding Speed and Spee...
That goomba at 6:46 gets fucking rekt
He almost messed up the shot!
Child abuse!
*Comes to learn some badass technical stuff about a great N64 game*
*Files a CPS case for a rekt mini Goomba*
His little feet crack me up
Old bismuth comment
"hi! i'll prepare the cannon for you!"
mario: ok
mario: *goes flying away to Neverland*
*yuep yuepyuep yuep yuep*
WHAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
"thou simpletons. i do not requirest such vehicles"
@@Isakube “thy combustion devices have no need for me”
I just want to stop and appreciate the fact that "pre-owl speed" is a thing.
Absolutely beautiful
@Anessen pre-nacho speed
Why did I say "pre-nacho speed"?
@@Dante_Sparda_DMC well, Mario hasn’t been seen eating any nachos, so technically all of his speed is pre-nacho speed
Ladies and gentlemen, in this video, pannenkoek seriously discusses the idea of deliberately getting a game over in order to potentially save A presses.
Oh no, it's another "we can't do this cool thing that would crack tons of A presses but I'll still explain it in detail and crush your dreams anyway" video.
But on the other hand:
Oh yay, it's another "super interesting and entertaining video that teaches us more about the inner workings of one of the greatest video games ever made" ♥
Would you rather he just kept you in the dark?
Sato no it's a "well no one is ever going to understand how to do it but it'll be super funny to see them try to replicate anything I do in this video" video
as long as your dream is, for some reason, to 'play' sm64 without an a button. which is dumb in the first place. and you're not playing either. doing everything frame perfect and with floating point precision angles is just impossible. it's obviously tool assisted.
The concepts presented and the technical implementations are interesting, but there is no point.
FalcoGer looks like someone's jealous that they can't do this
We just need to find a way to BLJ without pressing A!
1. Map A to a C button
2. We did it
No C button? There's four of them! C up, C left, C down, C right.
not that SM64 actually allows rebinding, but apparently the joke is obligatory at this point.
Fortunately, there are other ways to build up hyperspeed without pressing A (e.g. walking under the gate by the lake in HMC)
but no 0xa before second floor so its useless aside from SA entry
What the hell is sunny doing in Mario 64 go back to maker
the title of this video sounds like a math rock album
underrated comment
1:08 Can we all just take a second to appreciate how perfect that was
7:13 sneaky x pos, nice job developers
I would just like to take some time to appreciate how intricate and amazing this game is.
I know the glitches like HSW and PUs weren't added on purpose, but they really show you how the game works and the extent the programmers went to.
Pannen, we now know that you have perfected interdimensional travel, not just in a mere video game, but surely in real life, too. Tell us how.
He's probably been planning to do a commentated video of it. But only after he's made the other commentated videos first.
“Unfortunately, the universe crashes if you let the camera follow you to a parallel universe. So, here, I've hacked the universe to fix the camera in place.”
Oh, so that is why we call it the observable universe Kappa
+( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) it does take A presses though
Vincent Rousset No wonder he won't tell us about dimension travel. We would start SPAMMING the A button 30 times a second! Instead of waiting 12 hours to save an A press, we'd have pressed A 1.3 million times in that time!!! That's 1300 thousands! And that's horrible!
We need to be conservative with the resources we got. The Mario world doesn't have an unlimited supply of them although we act as if it did. What would our children and grandchildren think of us if we used up all the speed before they could even lay a hand on Mario games? We need to conserve it as well as we can!
Conserve speed? How about conserve sm64 cartridges and N64s for our children/grandchildren
I've played through this game about 50 times and I never knew about the warp-out in DDD, that's crazy
i hope someday pre-owl speed becomes important and a regularly used term
Probably not, unless it will bring some major time save since all stars in WF are already 0x
I don’t think they meant in SM64 specifically, just in everyday life.
>be me
>at school
>teacher: pre owl speed.
>XD.mp4
Lol, Mario's X starting position in Big Boo's Haunt is 666. Coincidence? 🙃
OH! Very nice find :D That must have been on purpose...
ILLUMINATI: Stay right where you are
no
I think not!
Nope!
6:46
That goomba just goes FLYING
The A Button Challenge is definitely my favourite anime, but filler episodes like these are certainly disappointing :p
Damn it you made me wish this was real.
Top 10 Anime Betrayal
holy shit, so many Pannen videos this week, HNNNNNG
Keok though... Koek would have been HYPE
he is running out of ideas...
no he's not... i dunno
we think he is...
Truls Henriksson
A Keok video is still better than 98.53% of RUclips.
Pannek I love these channels, and everything you do. Thanks for making it all! It's such an absolute blast seeing the inner workings of this game.
damn why do you two only have two likes
1:41 _unh_
*WHAAAOAOOOAOAOAOOOO*
*Hyper speed backwards movement noises*
Loving the late night pannenkeok
Another issue with using HMC to get speed for other places is that they can only use the MIPS trick to get to HMC's entrance without an A press twice. That means that we can only use it for one more thing, unless it can save 2 a presses in one go.
Can the conserved speed be used by Demo Mario?
I would believe so, as spawning displacement works with demo Mario.
Will Arnett If that's the case, maybe mixing spawning displacement AND conserved speed may help Demo Mario get that darn star... Maybe?
This we need to know.
thisthisthis. Demo Mario might be able to snag that one star in JRB with the right starting speed.
Not sure if you could mix spawn displacement and conserved speed without A, but speed might help if it works
These videos just can't cease to amaze.
>video begins with building speed for 25 hours thing
>DIS GUN B GUD
You discovered greentext arrows yesterday and you want to fit in with the cool kids?
yeah, police? i just witnessed a fucking murder
So a flock of crows? Wait, no, those are vultures. You dead, son.
This makes me think, if you can convert your speed conservation after a game over into a ready-to-play file, does that mean Mario's speed can be translated to the demo reels as well?
omg how did I not know about that hatch in DDD until now!?
Wait, you didn't know it existed??
Nope
That hatch sucked me win when I had like 99 coins or something. I was so triggered
brianpso it’s a sneaky little hatch, i played this game when i was little and just a few weeks ago i found out it existed
i never knew about that either.
Pannen, I've asked this a couple times but I'm not sure if you've seen it. What happens if you end the demo with text on screen (from bomb-buddy or sign) or while in a cannon? I'm hoping it causes a glitch since you can't normally exit a level with either of the above conditions in effect.
Some random chick: Are you playing Mario?
Me: I'm learning physics.
SRC: Isn't that game not about physics?
she was found dead next morning killed by half a knife stab
Why waste a half knife press man?
Wow kid thats pretty edgy you might hurt yourself
A knife stab is a knife stab.
You can't just say it's only half.
-6edgy3me-
1:41 The owl was like, "NOPE."
I love everything you do here. You're the best mario 64'er ever
the absolute madman
Justin W IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE?
"Sadly, it takes 1x a press to kill this man/woman."
You know when file select music plays you are about to learn what feels like a quantum physics lesson
The common denominator between when speed is conserved, and is reset - is whether or not there is an obvious "cutscene" (as small as they may be!) upon entering a new area.
The few level transitions which were mentioned to conserve speed don't have Mario do a cute "entry" animation.
So if you make suggestions that won't work, you get to be included in a video? Awesome! Can you grab a bob-omb hands free and then enter a Pedro Spot to build up QPU speed, and then carry the bob-omb to the PU, and then clone the PU, and then bring it to the main map of TTC and release it. Then use the ground from the cloned PU to climb up to all the stars!
The PU is not an object, it is a real place in the game, and the floor and walls are still floor and walls, if the PU was an object for some reason, this may have been possible, but I'm pretty sure that HMC (Hazy Maze Cave) is the only place where getting to a PU 0xA is possible, but I believe it is impossible to clone on that map.
+Corbin Cox LOL I know. Like I said in the comment, it "won't work".
Corbin Cox
WDW, Probably JRB.
JRB was just recently found.
1:43 The owl was just like "Get dat shit outta here, ride your own owl."
I just find 4:55 so funny. Like, Mario is SO eager to continue his adventure that he can't contain himself.
Do we know why speed is conserved through some loading zones and not others, like how it's conserved in the ship in JRB and exiting the hole in DDD, but not others? The only theme I can see is that the previous two I mentioned deposit you into water, which seem to conserve speed.
Wait, if you can conserve speed by dying and causing a game over, can you conserve speed into a demo? If so, is there a way to use that to cause demo-Mario to collect a star?
This is the 2nd pannenkoek video I’ve watched since 5/16/21
I'm assuming you've already thought of this, but maybe dying with a lot of negative speed in hmc can get demo mario to clip inside the cannon to shoot to the star.
Demo Mario would have to enter the sliding state the first possible frame
If you die in a sliding state in NYC, Would Demo Mario be sliding in that critical first frame?
John Jowers Probably not?
+John Jowers New York City?
raydarable No. I actually wanted to say HMC, but stupid autocorrect
tbh, I didn't even know about ~98% of these level transitions :p
≈90%
I guess we need to find some way to build up speed in the top floor then.
Hey, what exactly is the trigger for making the eel move out of the ship in WDW? I can be swimming all around him trying to coax him out, and all you did was an reverse arc.
You just swim in front of his face and then swim close to the surface.
@@Lugmillord it is JRB that has the ship
4:47 I never realized how realistic this game is, with Mario literally choking and grasping for air. Kinda creepy and scary!
WHO"S THE FASTEST NOW HUH, SONIC?!
"Sadly, it takes 1 full a press to reach Mach speed."
That kid in the ad for Lego: Hello there
look mom, i'm in a pannenkeok video!
Caldera11 i'm right beside you too
REAAAALY CALDERA
Fail,its UncommentatedPannen
"Hi, I'll prepare the cannon for you" *Kicks Mario off island.*
you fool. that *was* the cannon
0:30
;-; doesn't work for doors...
It's weird how the many transitions that _do_ conserve speed involve water in some way. Weird how the secret aquarium is the only level you enter in a swimming state that doesn't conserve speed.
It's because the speed is lost before you get in the water.
@@TheVercci Mario is loaded in the water
6:47
Goomba: Oh I found Mario! Here's my chance!
Mario: *sends the Goomba flying* no
Woo! I'm on a Keok video! I know so much more now than when I made that comment...
"If we die in a course then we get ejected,then we also cannot conserve speed"
Me:OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE WE GET STUNNED BY THAT EJECT
The owl at 1:40 said GET REKT SCRUB
I noticed that, for a moment, at 7:00 you still had sliding speeds while your XYZ positions were set for the upcoming level, which was different from the rest of the transitions as they were all set to 0 at essentially the same time. Assuming that Mario is in fact outside of PSS rather than in some weird transition army limbo (because the XYZ positions were set for the next area), is there really no way to use those sliding speeds before they're set back to 0? Or does the game prohibit the playing of the area before all defaults are set?
That seems to be a common phenomenon with every transition that's not a painting or a loading zone: When Mario's loaded into his new position, his sliding speed is perserved, then reset when everything's normal, with the exception of Exiting the Stage through the Pause Menu. That may be because we're on the ground when exiting through the Pause Menu, and all other times, we're in the air. If there was some kind of spawning displacement that immediately put us on the ground when we're thrown out of the stage, we could conserve our speed.
RarefoilB A LONG TIME LATER, WE FIND A USE FOR SLIDING SPEED!
so, we can get behind the 8 star door early 0xA, by first doing HSWing in the courtyard to get to the moat door, then go to hmc to build up some speed and bam 0 stars behind the 8 star door but its completely useless since you wouldn't save an A press, nor time with this.
Hey, fellow insomniacs. Hope you're having a wonderful evening.
Indeed I am! I'm almost done editing my new video :D
nice self-advertising
(no really, its better than most other people who try to hide it)
seconded
Meh. I'd prefer if it weren't there at all.
D MAS
same, still a little tacky
You need a sliding speed pressing Z, but how I can convert the negative speed to normal speed, when mario falls in the water after a BLJ and you are going to use the speed that you conservate, how you make this speed positive to go towards?
1:43 Holy cow, I just realized Mario casts a shadow on the death barrier. How have I never noticed that before?
is it possible to conserve speed and use it in a demo file maybe then you could get the star in jrb
I was thinking the same thing.
To be able to conserve speed, you would need to enter a sliding state on the first frame possible, so the demo probably wouldn't do that.
if you use spawning displacement for mario to be on a slope an slide... it could work
EDIT: I dunno, being burn to the death resets your speed? game over speed conservation is only possible through falls?
of course not
hopefully pannen will reply to my questions
tbh 'the extent of speed conservation' makes for a super badass album/track name, same with 'parallel universes' xDD
You should do a video on how that damn eel works. I've been playing this game for 20 years and I still don't know exactly what makes it exit that hole.
the eel kinda has like a hitbox. maybe
So, only one question remains: Are there any hyperspeed spots *IN* the upstairs courses that we could exit, *WHILE* conserving our speed, such that we wouldn’t *HAVE TO* go through a loading zone 🤔?
But couldn't you collect 70 Stars without collecting one from RR, WMotR and TTC and then do this thing where you went into one of them from BitS?
can we conserve speed by getting a game over , wait for the demo to play , and collect a star 0x ?
Adeal's Music Box no
Just out of curiosity, why do you keep only uploading to this channel as opposed to your original channel. Are you covering different topics on each channel? Or are you going FilthyFrankTV mode on us, and pretty much only uploading to your second channel?
Because my main channel made it a rule that all future uploads have to be commentated, since everyone wanted that. But I'm not in the mood to commentate these days
pannenkeok2012 Oh, ok. :P
What about conserving speed from a game over into a scripted menu cutscene?
YAAAAAAAAAS I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS! THEY'RE SO INTERESTING!!!
4:55 it doesn’t save any a presses, but would it be allowed within the scope of this challenge to go to a different save file, blj, and then conserve speed into the main file? More generally, would the use of a be allowed in other save files?
Another great video!
That last one is the most interesting situation in my view. Is it known why speed conservation works in this particular loading zone? Also, just a random thought, are there any spots in the ship where one might be able to HSW or otherwise gain speed?
I think they all have to do with whether Mario spawns in water or not.
That's the only thing I can think of that the JRB ship, the DDD hatch and Invisible Mario Death all have in common.
Doucheman Macgee Then why doesn't it work with The Secret Aquarium?
mathphysicsnerd
No clue. Only guess I have is maybe it's because it's going from the castle to somewhere else Vs. going from somewhere else to the castle/somewhere else?
Doucheman Macgee I guess that's possible but it's very anti-intuitive that the castle would affect it in that manner, especially since exiting to the castle grounds from DDD allows for the maintenance of Speed Conservation.
mathphysicsnerd
That's why it's just a guess. My reasoning is that there's somehow differences in going from the overworld -> stage (secret aquarium), stage -> overworld (Course Exit, Alternate Course Exits like DDD hatch and waterfall) , and stage -> other part of a stage (JRB ship)
Maybe it's because the secret aquarium entrance counts as a painting? He said in the video that paintings in particular take away all of your speed.
They seemingly did a pretty good job at mitigating speed conservation attempts by adding "set to zero" checks everywhere. Imagine how much more insane SM64 would be if you could just conserve your speed through loading zones, while moving normally, etc. You could essentially just BLJ your entire way through the game. They also did a good job with bounds, never making it actually possible to get out of bounds, though I'm not sure that's a good thing as we never would have gotten parallel universes that way.
Someone should make a ROM hack where all these things that are impossible in the base game, are possible... and then challenge Pannen to save all the A-presses. Think it'd be possible?
4:17 imagine peach being kidnapped and hoping Mario to save her and see this
so in almost every instance where the screen fades or irises out, no speed conservation
7:36 i didn't know this was even possible x)
When dying in any way or loading a new save file, sliding speed doesn't get reset until the respawn animation/new file cutscene moves Mario. Is there any way to stop those animations midway through, or prevent them from moving Mario?
So, It seems like if you do something that involves Mario performing extra animations, then your speed resets. But if Mario is simply "there" then the speed is conserved. Would that be a simple explanation?
1:08 hello mario!
2 seconds later: goes off flying uncontrolably.
I find it really weird (as an indie game dev myself) that Nintendo didn't zero out velocity on starting a zone correcting all of these possible scenarios. (these are technically a glitch)
Maybe it was an oversight but I like to think they didn't fix it to see what people would do with it!
6:47 "Why the frick can't I conserve my speed, you frickin' goomba?!"
0:00 - 0:02 nice remix! drums and creepy music! xD
4:57 Mario: "Ain't got time for shit"
You'd think that the Mario-class in the code would have resetting of speed to 0 for transitions to keep this from happening. All it would need is an if-check or have all the variables be == 0 at the top when it loads. Maybe it's declaring the types but not giving them values?
THAT'S why I would always go at an angle for the Caged Island Star.
I wonder if the fact that you conserve your speed when you Game Over is how sonicpacker and pals were able to clip into Vanish Cap without the Wing Cap.
I don't get it, why do some loading points reset the speed and others don't? Are they special in some way?
If Princess Peach saw Mario using such witchery, she would rather stay with Bowser.
TechnoRazor
Unless she saw bowser get rid of his power to jump
Wait, there's a hatch in DDD that leads outside? I have literally never seen than before...
Is that why when we let go from the owl in Whomp's Fortress, we aren't dropped straight down? I always have an issue where when I let go, I always end up being pushed in one direction just a tad.
Is there just an entire society of programmers dedicated to analyzing the quirks of this single video game?
How did you make mario do the punch slide to the castle door? I've spent 2k rerecs and 2ish hours trying to do it but I just go the wrong way?!
Then your sliding speed is directed the wrong way. You can't just go any direction you want; you'll go either straight forwards or backwards, whichever is closer to the angle of your sliding speed
I see the correlation, whenever you enter water with sliding speed, or gain speed and, as long as you stay in, or end up in water after a zone change you’ll keep your speed
Plus a few others
What about conserving speed between two existing files, instead of conserving between one existing, and one new file?
So why can you not save speed at the beginning of a new save file? Unless it deliberately wipes your momentum, spawning into a cutscene nullifies momentum saving (Which I don't think it would), or the transition from cutscene to text-box kills it, holding a direction from frame one should allow you to save your momentum. I reckon if we can figure out exactly where in there and why the momentum is killed, then unless it's the first one, maybe there's a workaround?
pokefan548 If you look at the debug box, it's when Mario exits the pipe. He has set movement values in the cutscene.
Have you played SM64DS? I found an out of bounds glitch that could get us through the third locked door with 0 stars. Unfortunately, the loading zone fails to trigger and I fall through the map.
what about if you game over while conserving speed and let the intro animation play
Because you conserved speed if you game over, what if there was a way to use PU movement to reach under the moat with emptying it
I was going to ask a stupid question, but I forgot "exit course" can't put you anywhere but the castle foyer.
How do you conserve BLJ speed by walking backwards? I don't know what controls to input
EDIT: You don't conserve it, you just "Push" against OOB, and turning moves you as far backwards as possible with your speed.
So THAT'S why letting go of the owl always felt so unpredictable!
Can you use the game over speed storage to do anything interesting from the courtyard, like enter the basement?
Why does the standard and relative view so different?