This is a very thorough analysis. Great coverage of the detailed nuance at Mosport. This track is extremely technical. I especially liked that someone quantified the camber angles! Very useful. There are multiple solutions for different corners and I liked the objectivity. Not too opinionated. Thanks!
Hi @PeterCarrollToronto. You found my RUclips channel! Thanks for the ride yesterday; definitely going try out some of the differences that I saw. Oh, and this is a huge endorsement! Thanks for the kind comments!
Drove this track a bunch back in the ‘90’s and it was WAY more knarly to drive than it is now. The track is wider pretty much everywhere after it was repaved and run offs have been added to or greatly improved. Turn 2 was by far the scariest. It’s still scary but as you briefly showed, back before all the safety improvements were made there was no asphalt run off area. If you went past the white line you were in the grass and once you hit that you were along for the ride at that point. Pretty much every lapping day I went to somebody would push to hard, push wide and crash into the retaining wall. I miss the crest that the track had at the top of the back straight before turn 8…..car would get light going over it if it was fast enough. I get why they took it out and completely agree with why as current cars an go quite fast and some race cars could actually catch air hitting it. Most definitely a technical track that needs to be treated with respect and work your way up to speed. But it’s very rewarding to drive, it has a great flow and all the elevation changes make it a lot of fun. There’s an excellent driver development track as part of the entire grounds (as well as a Kart track) that regularly holds various driving schools.
Funny enough, I actually like the DDT more, but it's so hard on the car. It's Mosport's little brother nobody knows about. For those who have not heard of it, here's a lap of it: ruclips.net/video/8oKdYPBIr7Q/видео.htmlsi=Ts3pfix-0jRfiJPI. What I miss is the 'old' DDT in reverse though.
Great and detailed explanation. Mosport has always been very well respect by all, including F1 drivers, as one of the most challenging tracks. I have done hundreds of laps there over the years and I have to say it is MUCH more forgiving now than it was when I raced there in the eighties. There were generally no runoffs or just grass ones as you showed here in turn 2. I can still remember following another 911 at full tilt, through the exit of turn 1 where he was straddling the exit curbs! From the curbs to the guardrail there was only about 6 feet of grass. A little too close for comfort!!
This is an excellent guide, thanks for creating the MOST realistic video of what 🇨🇦MOSPORT is actually like to drive! Emphasizing the camber changes on certain corners, elevation changes, curb characteristics & even undulations really helps drivers understand where the track can trip you up or even worse, loose control. Awesome tips for optimizing corner entry/exit & suggestions for car balance/speed. Well done!!!
@@LastTenth yes it was great! No rain today but there should be some tomorrow. Corner 3 is definitely the trickiest for me just because of the fear component. I can't get myself to enter faster than ~120kmh lol
@@AlexandreCardinal50 It's not easy; take baby steps because the wall is patiently waiting at the bottom of the corner. It takes time to get to the skill and confidence to enter T2 in the 170km/h range in a non-aero car.
Excellent vlog! I use to run at Mosport back in the days when those runoff areas were not paved so 2x jepardy if you got any of those corners wrong. Thanks for the detail ,reminds me of my days on this circuit
I just did a Driveteq track day event, and the instructors were very very clear about the whole "keep the wheel in one direction and be smooth" technique. I asked, even for the people who are doing push laps or racing in events here? and they said yes "If you have to make corrections you lose time". I very much think they are clearly wrong and I don't know if they are just use to a certain old-timers style of driving, but it was generally a bunch of older gentlemen in older porsche cup cars who thought their way was the only way lol. Your lap and video obviously proves you need to hustle the car and if corrections are needed than its ok, it's not a mistake to have to use the wheel sometimes. It was a frustrating track day for me when I was trying to have fun but they kept yelling at me whenever I moved my steering wheel even a bit when I was taking a corner. Frustrating day and I definitely will never take their advice again haha
I've never been to Driveteq nor know anyone who instructs there, so I can't comment on them nor their instructors. This may be an unpopular opinion, but over the years I've learnt that there is a camp of instructors that teach things exactly as they were taught, without ever questioning if it's in fact true, or the reason behind it being taught. Back in the day, it was all about smooth is fast, late apex, slow in fast out, do all your braking in a straight line - I was taught all those things and all of which I (now) disagree with, when the goal is the fastest lap. I suspect all those ideas were intended for safety, as I see how they would allow a novice driver to be more safe. I do want to be clear that I'm not encouraging anyone to go start jerking the wheel around, nor saying instructors shouldn't impose limitations and restrictions on the driver because of various reasons. An instructor's first priority is safety, then education. Pace is sometimes not a consideration at some events or for some instructors. That said, there is some truth to "If you have to make corrections you lose time". At the same time, if you don't have to make any corrections, then you are almost certainly not at the limit of the car. There's a lot to unpack here. While smooth IS fast because of how tires work, drivers cannot be perfectly smooth, if they are to maintain being at the limit of a car, through the entirety of the corner. The fastest drivers will be able to 'ride' that limit of grip, with the smallest, but likely frequent, corrections. I should also be clear than in this context, when I say corrections, I am referring to adjustments, rather than counter steer.
@@LastTenth They are for sure firstly their to make sure you have a a safe time and leave with your car. Absolutely agree and I will never argue with that. And ya, it's ok if unpopular, it really seems like there is that crowed of older gentlemen who will stick to their methods. Either way, thanks for the response and this track tutorial, it's going to be an immense help for me next time I go. But I will still listen to the instructors for the safety and also because I'd rather just do that than have to deal with another frustrating time of being talked down to on my driving style : p again, thanks for the response, cheers.
I love the attention the track is getting now a days as I’ve been going there for 15 years but something that’s come up recently that I noticed is how people say it “mose-port”. It’s pronounced “moss-port”, it gets the name from turn 5’s nickname “moss corner”, named after sterling moss .
That's interesting. From almost 25 years ago, I've always known it as Mo(e)sport. Mo(s)sport wasn't something I've heard until I returning to Canada. I always thought Mosport was short for Motorsport.
I just had to figure it out. A quick google yielded this: canadiantiremotorsportpark.com/pages/history#:~:text=In%201958%2C%20the%20British%20Empire,to%20the%20new%20business%20enterprise.
Never driven it real life (hope to one day) but at least in the sim, this circuit always wants to end me. T2 in particular. Probably one of the hardest circuits to get right, and this is coming from someone who loves technical circuits like Suzuka, Autopolis and Fuji.. but Mosport makes those look like child's play. Great lap guide!
Thanks so much! I could try in the future. I'm not sure I know Bogie well enough at this point to do it. Plus, I'd need to do a track walk to recon and gather pictures etc.
Turn 2 is off-camber as well. Jackie Stewart once called it the hardest corner in motorsport. It's a lot more forgiving than it used to be. Edit. The fence between 9 and 10 is because that's actually a bridge.
I set the lap record at a pro race in Mosport in F Atlantic in 1982, prev held by Gilles V. The key was to take a LATE entry into Turn 2 and a LATE apex (def not double-apex.) I had a ground-effects Ralt RT-4 and, although it took some time (and a bit of faith!), eventually I could take the corner flat out in top gear, meaning the car was flat out from the exit of 10 to the entry of 3. The other key was immaculate balance, because altho the car drifted down the off-camber ramp of the turn, it did so perfectly evenly. I think I was aiming at least 2-3 feet inside the apex apron, but happily drifting just past it, probably about 145-150 mph.
@@normhunter1825 My Grand Father used to run an MG TC in SCCA local races and the tales from the original 2, Moss Corner, and The Crest on the Andretti Straight were family legends. There is a definite divide between those that knew the course pre-Panoz/JJ Lehto, and those that know it afterwards (as the CTMP Park). As someone that went to Imola for the first time this year, I love the new version but I know they neutered the old. The same should be said regarding Mosport as the old must make way for the new, whether we like it or not.
![YOU'VE been taught the WRONG technique [THROTTLE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Bbekgk1tQA/mqdefault.jpg)
![YOU'VE been taught the WRONG technique [THROTTLE]](/img/tr.png)
![How to Stop Getting Wrecked - [VORTEX of DANGER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qwjZu-S67Os/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a very thorough analysis. Great coverage of the detailed nuance at Mosport. This track is extremely technical. I especially liked that someone quantified the camber angles! Very useful. There are multiple solutions for different corners and I liked the objectivity. Not too opinionated. Thanks!
Hi @PeterCarrollToronto. You found my RUclips channel! Thanks for the ride yesterday; definitely going try out some of the differences that I saw.
Oh, and this is a huge endorsement! Thanks for the kind comments!
That tidbit about turn 2 being eau Rouge in reverse, is so reassuring when you get turn 2 right.
Definitely walk the track if you ever get the chance.
Drove this track a bunch back in the ‘90’s and it was WAY more knarly to drive than it is now. The track is wider pretty much everywhere after it was repaved and run offs have been added to or greatly improved. Turn 2 was by far the scariest. It’s still scary but as you briefly showed, back before all the safety improvements were made there was no asphalt run off area. If you went past the white line you were in the grass and once you hit that you were along for the ride at that point. Pretty much every lapping day I went to somebody would push to hard, push wide and crash into the retaining wall. I miss the crest that the track had at the top of the back straight before turn 8…..car would get light going over it if it was fast enough. I get why they took it out and completely agree with why as current cars an go quite fast and some race cars could actually catch air hitting it.
Most definitely a technical track that needs to be treated with respect and work your way up to speed. But it’s very rewarding to drive, it has a great flow and all the elevation changes make it a lot of fun. There’s an excellent driver development track as part of the entire grounds (as well as a Kart track) that regularly holds various driving schools.
Funny enough, I actually like the DDT more, but it's so hard on the car. It's Mosport's little brother nobody knows about. For those who have not heard of it, here's a lap of it: ruclips.net/video/8oKdYPBIr7Q/видео.htmlsi=Ts3pfix-0jRfiJPI. What I miss is the 'old' DDT in reverse though.
Great and detailed explanation. Mosport has always been very well respect by all, including F1 drivers, as one of the most challenging tracks. I have done hundreds of laps there over the years and I have to say it is MUCH more forgiving now than it was when I raced there in the eighties. There were generally no runoffs or just grass ones as you showed here in turn 2. I can still remember following another 911 at full tilt, through the exit of turn 1 where he was straddling the exit curbs! From the curbs to the guardrail there was only about 6 feet of grass. A little too close for comfort!!
In the sim, they still have the old laser scan, with grass and everything.
This is an excellent guide, thanks for creating the MOST realistic video of what 🇨🇦MOSPORT is actually like to drive! Emphasizing the camber changes on certain corners, elevation changes, curb characteristics & even undulations
really helps drivers understand where the track can trip you up or even worse, loose control. Awesome tips for optimizing corner entry/exit & suggestions for car balance/speed. Well done!!!
Thanks!! I had noticed there weren't any extensive Mosport track guides on RUclips so I thought maybe I can offer something.
Never seen such a detailed analysis. That's amazing. I'm running for the first time there tomorrow, can't wait to rewatch it after doing a day on it
Thanks! Did you have a good day? If it rained, I hope you learned the wet line.
@@LastTenth yes it was great! No rain today but there should be some tomorrow.
Corner 3 is definitely the trickiest for me just because of the fear component. I can't get myself to enter faster than ~120kmh lol
Oops I meant corner 2*
@@AlexandreCardinal50 It's not easy; take baby steps because the wall is patiently waiting at the bottom of the corner. It takes time to get to the skill and confidence to enter T2 in the 170km/h range in a non-aero car.
Superbly done - Thank you
great video...... first time in track next week.. appreciate the detail !
You're racing in Varac? Very cool!! I have a friend who does/did it. I'm actually there tomorrow.
Excellent vlog! I use to run at Mosport back in the days when those runoff areas were not paved so 2x jepardy if you got any of those corners wrong. Thanks for the detail ,reminds me of my days on this circuit
It's a lot more forgiving now, but doesn't stop those walls from getting used though...
This dropped at the perfect time. I’ll be there tomorrow AM.
That said, excellent tutorial. This coming from a 7/10ths guy.
Oh tomorrow is Driveteq I think. Let me know if this helps! And be safe!
Wow. One of the best detailed track guides I've seen. Thanks. Great track too.
Thanks MacLaggan!
Very well explained!
I just did a Driveteq track day event, and the instructors were very very clear about the whole "keep the wheel in one direction and be smooth" technique. I asked, even for the people who are doing push laps or racing in events here? and they said yes "If you have to make corrections you lose time". I very much think they are clearly wrong and I don't know if they are just use to a certain old-timers style of driving, but it was generally a bunch of older gentlemen in older porsche cup cars who thought their way was the only way lol. Your lap and video obviously proves you need to hustle the car and if corrections are needed than its ok, it's not a mistake to have to use the wheel sometimes. It was a frustrating track day for me when I was trying to have fun but they kept yelling at me whenever I moved my steering wheel even a bit when I was taking a corner. Frustrating day and I definitely will never take their advice again haha
I've never been to Driveteq nor know anyone who instructs there, so I can't comment on them nor their instructors.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but over the years I've learnt that there is a camp of instructors that teach things exactly as they were taught, without ever questioning if it's in fact true, or the reason behind it being taught. Back in the day, it was all about smooth is fast, late apex, slow in fast out, do all your braking in a straight line - I was taught all those things and all of which I (now) disagree with, when the goal is the fastest lap. I suspect all those ideas were intended for safety, as I see how they would allow a novice driver to be more safe. I do want to be clear that I'm not encouraging anyone to go start jerking the wheel around, nor saying instructors shouldn't impose limitations and restrictions on the driver because of various reasons. An instructor's first priority is safety, then education. Pace is sometimes not a consideration at some events or for some instructors.
That said, there is some truth to "If you have to make corrections you lose time". At the same time, if you don't have to make any corrections, then you are almost certainly not at the limit of the car. There's a lot to unpack here. While smooth IS fast because of how tires work, drivers cannot be perfectly smooth, if they are to maintain being at the limit of a car, through the entirety of the corner. The fastest drivers will be able to 'ride' that limit of grip, with the smallest, but likely frequent, corrections. I should also be clear than in this context, when I say corrections, I am referring to adjustments, rather than counter steer.
@@LastTenth They are for sure firstly their to make sure you have a a safe time and leave with your car. Absolutely agree and I will never argue with that. And ya, it's ok if unpopular, it really seems like there is that crowed of older gentlemen who will stick to their methods. Either way, thanks for the response and this track tutorial, it's going to be an immense help for me next time I go. But I will still listen to the instructors for the safety and also because I'd rather just do that than have to deal with another frustrating time of being talked down to on my driving style : p again, thanks for the response, cheers.
Thanks for the guide, useful!
This is the best guide of any track anywhere. Amazing research and production!
That's so kind of you to say!!!
Well done, excellent job!
Great tutorial and very comprehensive…
Thanks Firas!
Awesome tutorial. Also guest starring as an extra :D
Thanks!
Yeah lots of cameos in this one!
Finally someone says the name properly! Too many people call it Moss sport.
The funny thing is as of the last few years I've been near bad influences and sometimes I catch myself say 'Moss Sport'
I love the attention the track is getting now a days as I’ve been going there for 15 years but something that’s come up recently that I noticed is how people say it “mose-port”. It’s pronounced “moss-port”, it gets the name from turn 5’s nickname “moss corner”, named after sterling moss .
That's interesting. From almost 25 years ago, I've always known it as Mo(e)sport. Mo(s)sport wasn't something I've heard until I returning to Canada. I always thought Mosport was short for Motorsport.
I just had to figure it out. A quick google yielded this: canadiantiremotorsportpark.com/pages/history#:~:text=In%201958%2C%20the%20British%20Empire,to%20the%20new%20business%20enterprise.
Never driven it real life (hope to one day) but at least in the sim, this circuit always wants to end me. T2 in particular. Probably one of the hardest circuits to get right, and this is coming from someone who loves technical circuits like Suzuka, Autopolis and Fuji.. but Mosport makes those look like child's play.
Great lap guide!
In the sim, T5 has been the most difficult for me, especially since it's the old scan. IRL, T4 is the most challenging. The fear factor is no joke.
Nice and detailed! Makes me want to get out soon!
We're all waiting on you...
Hey, nice and detailed guide! Could you do videos like that for other Canadian tracks, e.g., Calabogie?
Thanks so much!
I could try in the future. I'm not sure I know Bogie well enough at this point to do it. Plus, I'd need to do a track walk to recon and gather pictures etc.
Very good video- I’m a novice
Hitting CTMS soon and this helps-
I’ll have an instructor but still nice to hear your pointers
Thanks! Which organizer are you going with?
@@LastTenth infinite- this coming Monday
Oh Darren's group. Great group! Have a smooth day!
@@LastTenth having done my track day on Monday (half day dry, half day in rain), your comments about following the new (black) pave really helped)
@@keithrichards-io5db That's awesome. I'm glad the video made your track day better! I have a video on rain as well, if you haven't seen it.
Turn 2 is off-camber as well. Jackie Stewart once called it the hardest corner in motorsport. It's a lot more forgiving than it used to be.
Edit. The fence between 9 and 10 is because that's actually a bridge.
I set the lap record at a pro race in Mosport in F Atlantic in 1982, prev held by Gilles V. The key was to take a LATE entry into Turn 2 and a LATE apex (def not double-apex.) I had a ground-effects Ralt RT-4 and, although it took some time (and a bit of faith!), eventually I could take the corner flat out in top gear, meaning the car was flat out from the exit of 10 to the entry of 3. The other key was immaculate balance, because altho the car drifted down the off-camber ramp of the turn, it did so perfectly evenly. I think I was aiming at least 2-3 feet inside the apex apron, but happily drifting just past it, probably about 145-150 mph.
@@normhunter1825 My Grand Father used to run an MG TC in SCCA local races and the tales from the original 2, Moss Corner, and The Crest on the Andretti Straight were family legends. There is a definite divide between those that knew the course pre-Panoz/JJ Lehto, and those that know it afterwards (as the CTMP Park).
As someone that went to Imola for the first time this year, I love the new version but I know they neutered the old.
The same should be said regarding Mosport as the old must make way for the new, whether we like it or not.
Great video bud. Thank you.
Very welcome!