The Rise and Fall of Dishonored
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- Опубликовано: 26 мар 2020
- dishonored good
**FULL SERIES SPOILERS**
I do one-shot reviews too: • FANTASY FOR CHADS - Dr...
The Fall of Fable: • The Fall of Fable
Now that we're finally getting to things I like, Dishonored is one of my favourite IPs on the market - yes, even the last one. I think the series only ever struggled in terms of narrative, and specifically story. Either way, they're some of the highest value for some of the lowest prices, so stop buying literally everything Nintendo shoves down your throat and try something different.
I haven't gone much into stealth games, or first-person immersive sims, or whatever this is, but I'm looking forward to expanding reach on that front with Thief and Metroid Prime, and more in the future. If you'd like, check me out on Patreon - I cover almost everything, but it usually has swords. www.patreon.com/kbash?fan_lan...
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For a more colourful, light-hearted game, try Secret of Mana: • The Birth of Secret of... 
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"The stealth in these games isn't good." Describes his stealth attempts.
Sorry, you're wrong. The stealth in these games is great - you're just clearly really bad at playing stealth.
Playing stealth lethally with Powers sucks. Playing stealth bon lethal with no powers, quite a challenge but not that hard.
(What I mean sucks is stealth with powers and abilities make the game very easy, still fun but not that challenging IMO)
@@monishvj5172 Playing stealth for me in both way are so good + playing stealth, no kill no power is funny as hell
MONISH V J play stealth with powers lethality is better with Emily in DH2
@@monishvj5172 The point is that he says the stealth isn't good. Dishonored has great stealth. He simply just sucks at stealth and has an overwhelming desire to play the game aggressively.
I love me some aggressive gameplay, I absolutely LOVE playing Doom Eternal. However, I don't find playing the Dishonored games in an aggressive fashion all that entertaining. I much prefer playing them in stealth, with or without powers.
Yeah I agree he kept talking like the stealth sucks when obviously he doesn’t even like stealth in the first place
Here are two of the reasons why these games are great:
1. Sweet level design
2. Insurmountable replay value
Hit the nail on the head
Kbash: complains about stealth in 2
Me: what is wrong with you just: grab, throw, and break the jaw, repeat through the combat don't worry they're not dead
Gay man shoot gun?
From what I remember hearing, Death of the Outsider was meant to end the Corvo Attono/Emily Kaldwin era and that if they were to make another game in the franchise then it would take place in an entirely different era with a new cast.
I believe an entirely different era and civilization would be best for the next game, if it comes.
I'd imagine they would have subtle references to the Kaldwin era.
@@Zayindjejfj Yeah that would be for the best but as you said I'd like some easter eggs or references to the kaldwin era characters.
FUTURE👏DISHONORED👏
Magic Warrior oooo maybe like early 20s style
I always wanted to see a wild west lovecraftian inspired setting.
I really hate what they did with the Outsider I liked when he was a mysterious force acting outside of our understanding
The original voice actor was also amazing.
He sounded human but so detached that you thought twice about that.
Not to mention he was at one point human but the details were left in obscurity like any good lovecraftian game should have it.
Agree. It really sucks how he went from an eldritch entity to a sacrificed teenager. Meh.
He sounded like an angsty Harry Potter character in Dishonored 2
i feel you , then again i think it's interesting to make him as a sort of victime and ultimately a pawn of fate as is most eveyone in the dishonored serie , it has an interesting thematic echo to the player charactere , and when it's true that it strips him from some mystery as do most backstories , it makes him more sympathic , and goes into this eutanasia , mercy killing , in a way like everyone is just sick of the void , and it's sur realness , enven the outsider .
@@Zayindjejfj God no, the original VA was awful. He had less inflection than an early 2000's anime dub.
His replacement in the second game still isn't good, but at least there is an attempt at acting.
Tbh I enjoy a stealth playthrough WAY more than a combat playthrough, it was more challenging in my opinion
It is way more challenging. I love both honestly. I love just being so powerful that I can take out everyone in a moment, but having the choice to go through a game like this without killing a single person is what makes me love this game so much.
I did a stealth and pacifist run for both games, and i’m trying to play the 2nd one in high chaos, but its so boring to kill everybody.
@Venraef Dark vision is amazing, and it's good for stealth
@Venraef Stealth, by definition, is a cautious, unobtrusive, and secretive way of moving or proceeding intended to avoid detection. The use of powers doesn't take away the meaning of the word. And just because it doesn't fit to YOUR standards of stealth gameplay, then good for you, I don't care, I still got the achievment saying nobody ever spotted me after escaping the prison, so I did do a stealth playthrough ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Venraef Actually, yes, it IS relevant cause you said 'If you used Dark Vision, then you didn't do a stealth gameplay' all I replied with is saying that what I did was indeed a stealth playthrough
Delilah wasn’t killed by daud in the canon. Nonlethal is canon for the most part with a few exceptions.
In the first game
Granny rags, havelock, the royal interrogator, lord shaw.
As for dishonored 2 only person we know is dead is Jindosh but not how. He might have been executed after the nonlethal ending or killed by Emily.
It's amazing how you can just spare your target, and how often the "canon" typically involves you taking the nonlethal approach.
Well maybe you can spare them from death, but the stuff that awaits them is truly grim.
In my heart of hearts I think Corvo nonlethaled the Lord Regent and then immediately ripped him in half once the word was out
@@riastradh Hahaha, I know this is your canon but Corvo is nothing like that in the games or in the books .
@@riastradh He actually carried out Hiram's execution after having him held in Coldridge prison. Irony, eh?
Lmao how can the series have a rise and fall that quick its literally only been two games and they've both been critically acclaimed
Actually there was a third game. We dont talk about the third game.
@@Zoomii5 Death of the Outsider was a decent standalone DLC, why's everyone whining about it? Sure I wouldn't have bought it at full price, but it was a nice extra portion of DH2 with a meh narrative but great level design, especially the bank mission.
@@TheParadox3000 honestly I just drop hate on it because everyone else does. I only did one playthrough of it, but I had a ton of fun with it.
@@TheParadox3000 It was as enjoyable as DH2. The only problem was bonecharms, most of the bonecharms are acquired in Mission 4 and 5 (end of the game)
@@SuperHongTay I know. I have no self confidence so I always just follow what others say because I want to fit in, even if that isn't actually my opinion.
"Fail and reload is exclusive to stealth"
I beg to differ. Do you know how many times I've reloaded because I can't seem to find the perfect death for a target? Should I burn them? Throw them off a roof? So many options!!
That happened to me with the Lord, until I came up with the best kill, kill every guard and deactivate the electric wall, appear in front of him and unmasking myself, then parry his attack and waste a adrenaline kill on him, glorious.
Fail and reload is also very common in slaughter WADs for Doom.....
Why not do them all? Just the perfect party game
Interesting, I found going for a stealth play through as my first run as extremely fun. Then again, I bought it under the context of it being a stealth fame and I am a long time fan of games like Hitman. Honestly, the games got this awesome horror factor to them when I was doing my stealth runs. Though the chaos ones are fun too.
Felt that
same. I felt like stealth gave you more of an incentive to consider the environment carefully, and thus take in more of the worldbuilding and narrative. I honestly cannot see myself playing high chaos. I might do it someday, but to me, its a stealth series.
@@maximeteppe7627 That's the point, I think.
A stealth playthrough isn't about mechanics that makes It "more fun" but about movement and exploration.
Sure, combat mechanicse may encourage some people to go full sword on people asses, but that removes all the challenge of keeping a low profile and movement.
Except your the monster
I have 300 hrs in MGSV and almost 100 hrs in Hitman 2016. In those games, the stealth systems can be understood through repetitions of levels and experience. You understand how things work and you can use it to your advantage. I am trying to do a ghost run in Dishonored and it just feels off. I feel like I am simply stumbling through and getting things right instead of being a stealth god.
"We're still good for cigar and whiskey tonight?"
Indeed, I believe so
Do you think you'll get your own squad after what happened last night?
Chances are very good
"we know you're here somewhere!"
5 sec later
"Cigar and whiskey time"
let my hands not be restless! Reveal yourself!
I think criticizing the game for "forcing" narratives on you, that are a result of the actions you take because you ignore the narrative breaks your argument.
In my Opinion the game actually gives incredible insight into why people gravitate to violence and/or abuse of power; it can be a welcome shortcut when faced with difficult obstacles and complicated circumstances that do not have an easy answer. But they have consequences. The narrative expects you to realize this and moderate your behaviour. Getting spotted or killing some guards will not put you into high chaos, it is something you have to work for to achieve by deciding to kill instead of choking unconscious.
Now neither is actually good. That is why it is diverted into low and high chaos, not good and bad.
In essence I read the games message as: There is a degree of choice you have; but there are consequences
Yea but this is still a video game that can be boring for many ppl and although I enjoyed stealthing my way throught I have to agree with what he says
Allow me to counter with a comparison... Corvo in dishonored 1 feels very much like an arcane trickster rogue in d&d 5e, and in d&d, even as a pure power caster type character with a martial focused subclass (hexblade warlock) which tbf also feels kinda like Corvo, I tend to try to go the stealthy/nonlethal way till I have no choice (ie guy knows I'm here and is genuinely trying to kill me and can't be reasoned with, aight time to cut his heart out and bind his soul as a specter) but in dishonored it just.. Man it doesn't feel right. I actually had people try to tell me bout nonlethal ways to deal with targets who directly back stabbed Corvo and I'm like... "nah fam, what fucking bodyguard turned assassin let's the people who stabbed him in the back and killed the one he was protecting live for a moment longer than he has to? It just doesn't feel right" but it's more than that. NONE of the stealth feels right. It feels broken and buggy. Sneaking up on enemies and picking em off bit by bit and isolating tougher targets for a fight is fine but that's Goin in planning for murder. Low chaos stealth play isn't just challenging, it's punishing. It's not FUN. it's a broken buggy mess half the time, mechanics just not functioning how they should or never beinh fully explained.
And if you try to go for lots of sleep dart picking off targets, hah! Good luck ever having enough supplies. I run out of basically everything by the time I get near the lord regent. The game has interesting mechanics and CAN be played fun but it punishes you for doing so in the long run, not cool, and it has terrible economy.
Oh and in case someone brings up playing d&d like a high chaos dishonored run being an evil campaign, far from it. Look at how many good campaigns, hell, good hero stories in fiction as a whole, consist of ripping apart a corrupt organization piece by bloody piece. Killing all the bandits who hurt our friends in town doesn't make my lawful good vengeance paladin chaotic nor evil. Wiping out the guards who eagerly vie for the favor of sick, corrupt leaders while their voicelines reveal they have some knowledge of how awful those men at the top are, shouldn't mark you as chaotic or evil in dishonored.
@@torunsmok5890 uh yeah no. Even in a world as rotten as dishonored choices still can be made. And there will be consequences. Killing is wrong. No argument can nullify that. It just is. The worst thing you could do. Stealing someone else's life before their time. It does things to your soul. And man you've got Corvo all wrong. Your immersion of him isnt nearly close. That's more similar to Daud in his prime before he killed Jessamine. Powerful, vengeful, bloodthirsty. Never let anyone he didn't want to get away. You're supposed to be punished for bad things. That's how it is. And dishonored did it perfectly.
Except you get a bad ending if you kill to much and more zombies show up as well
Some narratives aren't that interesting to people, he says he knows killing is wrong but he doesn't need a video game to tell him that. If he all he wants to do is play for the visceral fun of killing, he can do that, the game allows it. He doesn't have to care about consequences at all, he can get to the end in his own way. If the killing is satisfying for him then so be it. A game can tell you what to feel depending on what you do but ultimately, it's up to the player on how they feel.
I always naturally play non-lethal and stealth whenever I am allowed to, so these games really scratched that itch for me. Ironically Death of the Outsider didn't disappoint me for the narrative aspects or the arsenal... but for the fact that there is no benefit to playing Low Chaos. What *you* felt was not as restrictive actually took away one of my main motivations to play the game. I tried to play non-lethal, but with no consequence I realized that I became sloppy and occasionally just killed someone when I really couldn't be bothered to reload or figure out a safe route. Heck, the contracts include several missions with no non-lethal approach. That was extremely depressing to me.
As for Daud and Billie, I think both of them are entirely believable. The canon ending to The Knife of Dunwall has Daud sparing Delilah btw, which is why she is alive in 2. He grew to believe that these powers were a mistake and gave people with little willpower too much might to control. Also you can let the Outsider live and turn him into a normal man if Billie finds out his real name. The reason he gave Billie powers was not so she could kill him, but to figure out what happened to the Outsider and decide for herself if he was really the villain. He was always about giving people the power to decide.
Yourson Isold I had a similar experience. I loved the challenge of trying to never be spotted or get the clean hands achievements. I do agree though that I wish there would have been a non lethal option for some of the contracts. It felt strange not killing anyone.... except for the mime
Did'nt the coven of Delilah revived her in DIshonored 2? Why was the canon ending that Daud spared Delilah?
@@gabrielteodosio3223 The canon ending is that Daud only sealed Delilah's soul in one of her own paintings in the void. In Dishonored 2 the antagonists help her escape from the Void.
As for why Daud spared her, he was just tired of all the killing. The Knife of Dunwall is generally about Daud trying to find a way to wash his hands clean after he killed the Empress. Some play him still as a cold killer who is doing it in the most deadly way possible, but the point is kinda to not do the same thing again.
I liked the low chaos playthrough, and I think a large part of it was that it felt like you were doing the unexpected. In the Empire the vast majority of people are assholes, even murderous, and the world is worse off because of this. The Outsider grants you the mark, pretty clearly tempting you to use your powers to slaughter your way through the city. But you can rise above all that and take the high road, spit in the face of a cynical and morose universe and act based on genuine idealism. It feels like you're doing the unexpected, refusing to sink to the level of everybody else. I feel that a lot of games allow you to slaughter your way through hordes of enemies, then pat you on the back for it, and Dishonored doesn't, it tells you that wanton slaughter will have negative consequences. I mean, you're given freaking superpowers, yet a moral as simple as "Don't go out of your way to slaughter people." is somehow too much to ask?
You got is son! It amazes me how mediocre gamers gain so much popularity in YT or social media for that matter. And then they criticize a game they were not good at of failed to understand. (Thinking of Prey2017 right now) It’s like me (as a biker) saying the Kawasaki H2R is a bad bike and uncontrollable, because I lack the skill to control it.
It's crazy how much I disagree with your story criticisms. The first games story was GREAT especially when you read the background notes and texts you could find in the world.
The second motivated me IMMEDIATELY because I played as Corvo. In the first game I worked SO hard to save Emily and seeing her be turned to stone boiled my blood.
I think the narrative in the first is solid. The world is tightly designed to fit that story; The plague, the assassination, it all fits together. the second betrayal is maybe a bit much? But it worked for me. I agree that the lady boyle mission was narratively creepy. Killing your target usually is more merciful, but it's doubly true here. The game gives me very little reason to hate her the way I hated my other targets.
Anyways, on to 2. My issue with 2 is the lack of consequence. Most people will start with emily on the throne, and end the same way. Whereas in the first there was some finality to the change.
I think the second game could have been stronger if you started with whole new protagonists in Karnaca, and never set foot in Dunwall. Maybe you can meet corvo and emily in an official visit or something, but keep it at that. Doing so would free the narrative to pack more durable change. That said, the narrative within each level felt richer to me in the second game. There was more variety in the motivation of the targets.
Similarly, 2 adds the bloodflies which aren't as thematically relevant as the rats were in the first game. It's just "well it's a dishonored game, we need to have an epidemic! Ho but it's different this time, cause they fly now!". I like them mechanically but story wise, they feel tacked on.
what the fuck why would you play as corvo? The corvo playthrough is literally Dishonored 1 but again.
Not to mention the first game has you be "deceived" into trying to get people who seem competent to rule, only to discover the CORRECT choice of ruler is a literal child with nothing going for her except for the circumstances of her birth
pretty weak imo
He clearly doesn't care about story and he just picked this game up because he liked the slash and kill mechanics. Definitely not one of the good critiques out there
Thanks for the spoilers mate...
Darshan Hankinson, the games are pretty old and like you can clearly see there’s going to be spoilers unless you have no idea what a narrative/story is kinda fucking stupid to keep reading
"We encourage stealth and a minimal-kill playthrough, also here's a shit ton of ammo and weapons for you."
Right?! it's so dumb! Why would they do that! You don't even get half as many stealth tools! Do you even get smoke bombs? Sly Cooper got smoke bombs and you can bash in as many skulls as you want in those games!
Tom Hill it’s literally to make the game harder and more challenging, there are plenty of tools to use but u can’t always rely on them and you need to use ur own skill and different tactics. And sly cooper can’t be compared bruh it’s a very different game
Yeah no. I agree. The game would be better if it removed most of the weapons.
Not to mention is not nearly as fun, at least in the fist game, becasue your only non lethal netraluzation are either choke guards or sleep dart them.
That's why the seconds one is way better. They fixed that IMO.
What sucks is that the chaos mechanic is percentage based if I'm remembering correctly. Meaning you can kill people. In fact, you can kill a lot and still get low chaos. But one too many or if someone dies by your hand by accident then its RAT CITY BABY.
Honestly, while people are complaining about the low-chaos and high-chaos stuff, there is meaning. The game gives you all these powerful weapons, but doesn't want you to use them, as if saying to find another way around things without murder. Another thing is that some non-lethal equipment is very powerful too, such as the stun darts which can knock out any enemy it hits, regardless of type or if they're in combat. There is also Daud's level 2 pull, which he can use to yank a person in the air and choke them. And for those saying that non-lethal has no benefits, they're wrong. the city becomes less plague-ridden, meaning less rat swarms and less weepers out and about. It also changes what certain NPCs think about you, such as Billie in the KoD who will not give you a rather difficult battle if you go low-chaos. The game punishes you for being weak-minded and submitting to a violent playthrough with a city that reflects you: Violent
and for those who really care about if a playstyle benefits one, look to the game Undertale, which also has similar peaceful and violent endings. the genocide route isn't as rewarding as expected, as despite giving you good weapons, the enemies faces later on are gonna be hard to beat, even with powerful equipment, as well as the game's pacifist ending being perma-fucked over to always end badly, and yet people still play the Genocide route regardless. So a playthrough doesn't have to be benefitial to be fun.
High/low chaos stuff is pretty neat in my opinion. It makes sense why your main enemies get scared of you so they set up more defenses and for your allies to think you are kind of a dick if you murder everybody in the game.
Is it suprising that you cant even remember any villains from the original if you just rushed trough and mindlessly killed everyone? Iam pretty sure this isnt the way Dishonored was meant to be played.
I’m pretty sure that Dishonored was “meant to be played” however the hell you want.
Then why CAN it be played that way? They MADE the game they could make it however they wanted: they INTENDED for that play style.
However, criticising narrative when you're actively avoiding engaging with it is pretty hypocritical lmao
@@FaliusAren yeah but when you're judging a game objectively, you need to know all you can about said game. And let's be honest, the game makers clearly want you to go low chaos. And you need to if you want a full immersion in this game. Otherwise dont give your public professional opinion on something and expect it to be valuable to people unless you know all about the subject of which you're speaking.
@@lorenzobaxter It's not even a matter of chaos, just paying attention.
@@ginge641 Yeah seriously. You can run and gun through everyone while still eavesdropping here and there or reading a note or book.
I never really felt "soft locked" into a particular play style as some people put it. I played the game for the sake of the gameplay for the most part. I appreciated the fact that the game recognizes the players actions, but I never felt "punished" for doing lethal runs. I saw one as a darker ending and another as a brighter ending in D1, but not a "bad" ending. I think I still liked the dark ending as an ending; I didn't feel robbed of anything. It would be weirder if everything was sunshine and rainbows after Corvo carved up more than half the city.
*mentions megaman zero*
well boys we did it
Honestly, every time I attempt a high chaos run I get so bored so fast. I always end up restarting to play a ghost run with no powers.
Same
Facts, especially with dishonored 1, since giving you 30 bullets and 30 bolts semi rapid fire makes it a bit too braindead
am i the only one that gets bored cuz while attempting non lethal then go "Screw it imma kill everybody"
"The stealth in these games isn't good." go watch stealthgamer on youtube and you'll feel how much of a lie this statement is
Exactly lol everyone thinks stealth means mgs and hitman
StealthgamerBR makes me feel like im bad at vidya games..........
Seriously though i learned so much about the game mechanics from him
@@utsavbasu1048 i think stealth means thief
And by that standard almost every other stealth based game has some pretty bad stealth
@@V2ULTRAKill Ah, a fellow 90's Thief man of culture I see.
@@V2ULTRAKill I was pretty curious to play this game because everyone says it's a spiritual successor to thief, and I've played all 3 (unfortunately I played all 4 but I prefer not to think about thorf). But apparently the stealth isn't light based. I'm disappointed already...
I fear no man...
*[looks at cleanshaven KBash]*
But that thing. It scares me
"Narrative Perspectivism"
My brain just melted for a second.
(Looks around)
"The bank heist from Death of the Outsider is the best mission in the series"
(Takes cover)
The level design is great.
I hated the stealth aspect though. The side objective of not getting discovered was stupid because you couldn't "hurt" anybody. This includes nonlethal approaches, meaning you couldn't do a whole lot, save for killing the clockwork soldiers with drop attacks. Which is SO FUCKING DUMB. But aside from that it's actually a dope level set up.
no thats a pretty common opinion who choose to tackle the game on a more objective, critical level. it does the best it can with the mechanics its given and that just so happens to be really fucking good
Honestly, it really is my favorite level. First time I did it, I used the whole knock out gas method and strolled on in but when I did it without that, it was just a blast. You have so many options and so many ways to get to your objective and that made it so much fun with every replay I had on that level.
Oh I hates that mission
Iván Rodeiro I’m a big fan of the Addemire institute and the flooded districts. The heist is also great tho:)
Bro the stealth playthrough was way funner than the killing playthrough
What I love about Dishonored is that it felt like an old school game made with modern assets. There's just so much freedom to how you do things that most newer games restrict you on bc they're afraid you won't play the "correct" way.
Dishonoreds biggest issue for me personally, which goes with the video. They never made the stealth as fun as the combat. There are so many combat heavy abilities and weapons that it's just incredibly fun to be evil and being good feels like playing with only a third of the moveset
True, High chaos stealth is the best way to play the game
The first game has horribly few non lethal tools
It's crazy how much I disagree. The stealth is some of the MOST fun stealth gameplay I've ever experienced
@@Alexandra-ek7kh AI is as smart as capabilities to navigate the levels allow it. dishonored is often praised for good level design, but when you consider the players abilities, enemies abilities and the level design where it is.... i mean i wouldnt be able to tell you how to improve it, but the conclusion is still that the AI feels dumb with all that considering. however, that is still miles better than most games. AI needs to make you, the player, feel smart, and AI itself must 'look smart' without actually being smart. if you want to see actual dumb AI and level design that makes that even worse - look no further than the last Thief game. absolutely horrendous.
it takes some creativity to use all the superpowers for stealth properly, because the most obvious usage for most of them are super-agressive.
I'd agree with you on the first game, but Dishonored 2? No way. Nothing is more satisfying to me than linking 4 enemies with domino and then knock one out with a sleep dart... see them all topple over at once. The rush I got from ghosting Jindosh's mansion when he didn't even realize Emily was there! That was simply amazing. It truly felt like you flipped off the entire level and told that self-delcared genius to suck it.
I guess different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.
Great video, managed to watch it in 1 second
nice
that's one hell of a speedrun
@@giorgiofenu5563 I know right
Kluh LOOK OUT!
7:12 Damn that is a bad take. I had a blast replaying the game and not killing anyone.
I saw some stealth high chaos game play and it’s some of the coolest stuff in gaming
While I found Death of the Outsider much more limited systemically compared to the earlier games, I liked how they experimented with changes like giving the player "fully" upgraded powers from the start that can be further modified with bonecharms as well as mana regeneration. I'd love to see those changes applied to a fourth game or spiritual successor with a bigger set of abilities and playstyles.
hmm, I actually loved DOTO. As someone who enjoys the nonlethal stealth playthrough, I felt that the powers in DOTO facilitated the most fun and dynamic stealth of any of the games. Also overall I thought it had the one of the better stories. I think dishonored plot-wise is better when it is focusing on the weird occult stuff rather than the politics. That's why I much preferred the Daud story arc in the DLC's and DOTO over the two vanilla games.
I hated it...the story was shit and it dosent accommodate my stealth play style (stealth without powers and without knocking anyone out). First 2 games did it fine.
Every Time I Die is awesome! \m/
Look, I love this series and its devs more than just about anything, but _man_ was it satisfying hearing someone talk shit about Death of the Outsider lol. Wasn’t a fan of that one at all, especially how they did Daud dirty.
I thought I was the only one. I to this day have never finished it
@@yun2525 finished it and trust me it's not really worth it
Get back in your cage and make some more dope videos !
they did daud dirty while also hijacking billie's story to make it all about him, while also ruining the void and the outsider. no one escaped DOTO alive
Purposeless Rabbitholes heeeey hows it going
With the delilah thing, at the second game it always assumes u went with low chaos, hence emily is alive and the countries thriving and dauds alive etc, and if the low chaos ending of the daud dlc, she gets locked inside the painting, instead of dying
There's so much you get wrong in this video because you make definitive statements based off CHOICES that YOU made in previous games where the developers decided the stealth endings to be canon for thier STEALTH GAMES. You never HAD to kill Billie Lurk, Deliah or The Outsider. Stealthing through the bank without hurting anyone is easy if you explored the world, you can make a gas that puts everyone to sleep in the bank. It's really easy to tell how bias you are toward this series by highly favoring murdering everyone, lol. The whole series, in my opinion, is about how easily corruptible people are when given power. Daud is the perfect example of this. Daud didn't care about the consequences of his actions up until killing The Empress, were he realizes he brought so much death in the world because self-interest, and that's why he seeks redemption in the DLC, and eventually goes to hunting the Outsider, because he realizes the Outsider has the chance to grant people like Daud power. And then there's Corvo. In the first game, The Outsider constantly expects you just to murder everyone, but if you continually spare them, his response is always surprise. The Outsider expects people to take the easy way out with the power he grants. And if you read the notes, letters, etc in Dishonored 2, you can learn the fates of some of the people that Corvo spared. As this is the first video I've seen from you, I'm not that impressed.
Agreed. I always remember the Outsider seeming to become more and more bored as I progressed my lethal run, while becoming more interested in the nonlethal.
Hell, if you spare Daud the Outsider is actually so surprised he is struck speechless before he composes himself, laughs it off, and basically says "you continue to impress me Corvo!"
@@joshuaseagondollar2495 Yeah, the outsider just wanted to watch the events unfold in an interesting way, then Corvo ruined them by being reasonable
@@joshuaseagondollar2495 "You FASCINATE me Corvo."
The outsider is just a watcher. He gives people power and then watches how it changes the story. He pretends that he neither hates nor loves anyone. His biases taint his expectations but when people surprise him they REALLY surprise him. Tbh thats why i always went back to this game, the outsider was fucking amazing.
Plus its nice to hear Princess Leia's dulcet tones here and there haha
Agreed plus Nonlethal Corvo, Daud, and emily are far more interesting when it comes to eliminating their enemies. Every single elimination is horrifyingly ironic, and all fates worse than death.
"As this is the first video I've seen of you, I'm not impressed"
Savage and honestly exactly how I feel
I feel like if you have to save and reload multiple times outside the hardest difficulty in a stealth-based playthrough of no-kill dishonored, and you're not either succumbing to a mixture of bad decisions and tallboys, or playing on hardest difficulty, you might just actually be a bad player.
As for Lady Boyle- the kidnapping plot fulfills all the needs for a non-lethal takedown. The first non-lethal, low chaos "assassination" can likewise be argued to be immoral, since you end up causing the victim to be stricken by the rat plague, as an almost direct ramification of your action. Luckily, you can still kill her and get the low chaos ending. Because morality is a choice, and your buffer is fairly extreme, if you're actually playing the game as a stealth game. In fact, as far as I'm aware, you can afford to assassinate all the major targets, and still get the best ending (I say as far as I'm aware because I'm fairly certain I've done this, but it was long enough ago that I can't remember if I spared the pair in the brothel, and I'm pretty sure I saved Sokolov.)
No, Emily and Corvo are different in Dishonored 2. As far as I can tell from my gameplay experience, having beaten the game numerous times as each, including back to back playthroughs, not only are their abilities different- their tools are, as well.
Even then, those playthroughs create entirely different playstyles, such as Emily's movement ability relying upon physics allowing for faster movement, while Corvo has actual teleportation.
I'll never understand the narrative complaints about Dishonored 2. I found it to be fine. Worse than Dishonored 1, perhaps, but I bought into the narrative easily enough- though, I think a good deal of the narrative buy-in for me came from the environments I found myself in, over the characters themselves.
Such as figuring out what happened in the hospital, or the area around the mines that you fix by going back in time.
Also, can we please stop acting like the high chaos route is ever cannon? The twist of Death of the Outsider is that you *don't* kill the outsider, you rescue him from eternity. Likewise, as my memory serves, Billy is so well endeared towards Daud because Daud basically *was* a father figure to her, and allowed her to live at the end of the first Dishonored DLC.
Then there's the implication that an individualist can't have people they care for, which is wrong.
The low chaos route is typically considered canonical in this series. Rarely ever does the target get assassinated truly.
The only few I can remember is the Pendleton brothers and Jindosh being confirmed as killed off.
The nonlethal options were cruel on purpose, showing how Corvo or Emily won't kill someone but will make them suffer a fate worse than death.
**KBash asks Arkane for Dishonored 2 DLC**
Arkane: Wait, what exactly do you think Death Of The Outsider was?
There's still the ending of Death of the Outsider wherein you free the Outsider from the Void entirely. Also, I was given to understand that Void powers were more accessible after doing so, since they were no longer tied to a mind that got to pick and choose who got what.
True_Neutral The Outsider acts like a power locus for Void abilities, once he’s gone, powers start to not work properly, at least according to what I’ve heard about the 3rd novel, which I have yet to read
@@thew00dsman79 Third novel? I wanna read this! I'd only heard about the Corroded Man. But back to what you mentioned, maybe it could be both? Anyone with old mark based powers has their start to wobble, while anyone who was akin to Lurk, with "natural" affinity or otherwise, would be more likely to manifest, thanks to the lack of the Outsider as a locus/determining mind?
@@thew00dsman79 imagine corvo blinking to a short distance but gets randomly teleported to the void or a random place thats what i imagine to happen after outsider dies
@@Theboredgod still haven’t read the book, so I don’t know exactly the result of the Void powers going haywire 🙃
@@thew00dsman79 yea but just imagine how haywire it could be
like timestop but the sun and moon still streaks across the sky or the timestop becomes obviously noticeable like how ppl find out they cant move near time stop areas
bruh how cano you talk about the liberty this game gives you to play and say "eh i dont like stealth its better to kill"
God i'm tired of players who prefer doing combat thinking they got the "bad ending" and that the narrative encourages "playing good". NO. The narrative just gives you an ending that fits your actions. Are you really suggesting that the endings should all be happy and well when you've been shedding blood left and right? That's stupid. This is not a fault in the game. The game is not "Trying to say" anything. Christ.
Anyway that's the only bad take you got in there so good going :)
By the way, when I say "the endings should all be happy", I'm talking about your character's image. The ending is happy either way, your character survives and they rule again (that is, unless emily drops). The rest, just like in D2, is the consequences of your actions.
Imagine playing this series for the first time. Killing daud, delilah and billie and finishing the first game evil all around and starting the second game delilah pops up and billie is alive and later he bands with daud lol i cant imagine how congusing that must be
That'll make people go "screw the good ending" if everything didn't really matter in 2 and even more so in 2.5.
@@aquaria5634 Something simmilar happened to me with Delilah. Since she was a really powerful witch, the idea of a non-lethal elimination existing for her didn't pop up inside of my head (well, that and the fact that I left her unconcious the first time I fought her, but since nothing happened I assumed the previous thing I said), so I directly killed her. I would discover later that you could change her painting with another one to mess up the ritual, which is the non-lethal approach.
Yes, but you see, he is kinda right. Narrative shouldn't be that stiff when you have so many cool ways to kill opponents, even developers realized that and made it possible to kill and still get good ending in second part. Also, for example, lots of games like Mass Effect and Witcher let you keep what you choose from game to game. Its much better way then "Hey, we let you kill this character but we decided that in canon he/she is alive and you got to deal with it".
I personally find trying to sneak around the enemies fun. Being stealthy and quiet is great to me.
But why would you have to reload a save when you got spotted in stealth? Seriously unless your going for that 'never get seen' achievement I don't see why most people would reload. I honestly thought it was just you thinking if you do stealth you have to be 100% stealthy all the time, but looking at some of the comments other people seem to do the same.
When I played stealthy I wouldn't just reload if I was seen I would go along with it; either fight my way out, try to escape ect. It was part of the game I didn't do the tedious reloading every time (except for when I did the gosht achievement). And even though I played majority stealth I would decide that some encounters I would go in fighting, or set a few traps cause chaos and go in to finish the enemies off. I wasn't locked into anything I just chose the play stealth most of the time and not reloading if I didn't do it exactly right made the game fun.
Ghost playthroughs are a staple of stealth games
Its the ultimate challenge
To play the game in a way where it was like you were never there
Dishonered gives you a lot of fun ways to escape too, like Possessing the guy who spotted you and then running off to your destination in his body
i really want to believe that kbash shaved his beard and then grew it back the same way patrick grew his ponytail
I never realized there was a third game, always thought it was dlc for the second.
It is a dlc
That's because it isn't 3rd game. It's dlc.
Standalone dlc. Like Far Cry Blood Dragon.
It is. One of the many mistakes in this video.
I've never done a "genocide run" in this game and i feel both sad because i've lost quite a big portion of satisfying content but at the same time i don't want to get a bad ending...
What dishonored lacked in story, it made up for it in environments, memorable characters and great gameplay.
I honestly forgot there was a third game.
Becaus it is actually a standalone dlc for dishonored 2
I didnt even know there was a 3rd one
There wasn't that was dlc if you want to call that a new game then dishonored has four of them
@@villecor8765 5
I played Dishonored 2 3 times straight, it was SO good.
16:25 they all assist in the coup because the captain of the watch paid them and ordered them too, it's literally why he's your first target you have to deal with.
He’s killing everyone and “having fun” as soon as he starts playing, no wonder he doesn’t know jack shit about the story.
This franchise is basically Assassin's Creed if it were dunked in Bloodborne.
Replace Assassins Creed with Hitman.
It has next to nothing in common with AC or Bloodborne tbh.
I always thought of it as a sort of Bioshock + Deus Ex love child. It has the stealth mechanics and immersive sim rpg elements of deus ex and the powers of bioshock.
Bioshock and hitman
It has nothing to do with Bioshock tbh. Bioshock is an immersive sim in name only. It's your typical shooty macshooter but with boring powers. Dishonored on the other hand is nearly complete opposite. OP powers, complete freedom, doesn't try to sell 20 yo nostalgy but improves on it.
BioShock + Thief
Funny thing, the canon ending of the first game is a "middle of the road" path
My favourite way to play dishonored is to be a silent killer, hidden in the shadows but leaving a trail of bodies that never knew what killed them behind. I don't really like flashy high chaos 1v10 fights, I like to analize the area, maybe come up with a plan, execute it and stealthily leave no witnesses.
I go into the missions slowly as a ghost, and I come out running through the main hallway as a ghost that murdered anyone that could see him.
If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody around to hear it, its because the tree massacred everyone that could hear it before falling lol
I remember playing through D1 and doing my first 100% low chaos run, and it was a total nightmare. I reloaded so many times each mission it wasn't even funny.
I found that playing it stealthy and patient rarely got difficult... although I do remember having to reload a lot on the last mission specifically. However, if you've gone low chaos up to then you can smash everything in the last mission and still be fine, I've read. You don't tip over into high chaos just from one or two missions of murder, apparently.
@@tomkrawec you read right because I did exactly that in the first game. Played stealthy low chaos up until the final mission or two and just started SLAYING fuckers left and right. Still got the good low chaos ending.
It's super interesting that people think this way. My favorite memories with D1 come from my Ghost/Clean Hands/Mostly Flesh and Steel playthrough and regardless of the occasional reload I had an absolute blast.
@@chrismdb5686 It's not weird, it makes perfect sense. How many stealth tools did you have in that game....OK, now how many ways did you have to kill a person? Alright, now tell me, which number is bigger?
@@tomhill3248 Never said it was weird, I said it's interesting.
HOT TAKE... mindlessly and indiscriminately killing hundreds of people without remorse isn't a good thing and there should be bad consequences for doing so. This isn't CoD.
That being said there's nothing stopping you RPing Corvo as a madman who lost his mind after loosing his beloved Emily and will now stop at nothing until everyone is dead.
This game is amazing as it gives you the choice, but the idea that you should get the happy ending from endlessly doing bad things would make the world feel less real.
And the stealth is fun. If you have the planning, observation and timing to allow you can get through an entire mission ghosted, which can be very rewarding especially when you don't even need to reload it.
Like with the moral choice of not killing everyone it just sounds like you just want the happy ending, without having to work for it.
Why create a bunch of mechanics just so you can later slap your players on the wrist for having fun with them? Seems counter intuitive, and the narrative that decision lends itself to isn't anything spectacular to my mind. It wouldn't be a big deal if non-lethal options were as plentiful and could be employed as creatively as all the lethal ones were, but there is no non-lethal equivalent to wind blasting a group of soldiers into razor traps, or throwing a severed head into someone to push them into those disintegration barriers, or stopping time right as someone shoots there gun and then place an explosive can in front of them. You just use that tired choke animation again and again, sleep dart, and/ or sneak.
@@FilthyNobeard you have the choice to use whatever mechanics you like. But I love there are consequences for what you do. It's not punishing you, it's the logical consequences of your actions.
Think of it as a reward.... You want to kill lots of people, here's more guards to kill 😂
However, I do wish there were more skill rewards for non lethal play, like unlocking powers only available in low chaos (and powers for high chaos too)
but then again, you having to work for low chaos is the point. It would be oh so easy to run arround and killing everyone, but the reward for refraining from that is a happier ending.
Actions have consequences and the easy way is seldom the right way.
@Siberian That's a pretty big leap there, pal. Wanting to rip and tear through the enemies doesn't mean that you don't care about the narrative.
Also, why's everyone keep bringing up that more guards are a good thing for that play style? I know that! I never contested it to begin with! My issue is that non-lethal playthroughs have a lot less room for creativity and a lot less variety to them and that the more exciting way to play gives you a supremely unsatisfying ending.
love the shout to Purposeless Rabbitholes, dude deserves it
kBash: stealth is hard
stealthgamerbr: hold my mask
From what i played i loved these games and i think you described why i couldnt finish the games. I tried to be a stealth god and it just made me lose interest so quick. Also i didnt even know there was a third game lol.
I didn't think one person can be so confidently wrong.
@@FauxFalsetto no need to form a counter argument when the overwhelming majority already did so
I've heard of you before but never really thought to dive into your content until I saw this nice, beefy video about one of my most favorite and beloved franchises of all time.
This review is an excellent culmination of all of my thoughts about these games, as someone who also loves the series (aside from your opinions on stealth, but I can let that slide 😜)
Overall, fantastic video. Really love your blend of creativity alongside real, critical thought.
ok, thank you for saying there's spoilers in the description. As much as I love the first game (fav game of all time), I could never get into the second, so I haven't yet played the rest of the series. Will come back later
I was just thinking with the release of Half Life: Alyx “wow, this game looks great in VR. You know what would be fun in VR? Dishonored.”
Later that very day this gets uploaded. You’re a mind reader, Kbash.
There's a guy making a VR mod for it, he has beta tests uploaded on youtube
I loved all three, and I think Billie's powers were my favorite of all time. I don't think Dishonored had a fall really, I think you were just going in way too deep
how I saw it when playing for the first time, the outsider gives you not just op powers but also makes alot of them lethal to bait you into being corrupted by the power and turn into a mass murderer and cause more chaos (or at least that seemed the intent)
What I mention that's left out is you can get the high difficulty kind of chaotic playstyle and be stealthy at the same time and still get the (good) ending just get shadow kill extremely early.
The outsider bits are fantastic my dude. In the first ten minutes but have to go to bed. I really agree with the point of playing the game however you want regardless of the ending. That poisoned my first playthrough as a frustrated pacifist.
As one who enjoys taking deserved revenge and letting nothing stand in the way of true justice being punished for that in the game story wise is poisoning my first play through currently
I'm really glad to see some Dishonored love
Great video! Any opinions/interest in the Dishonored table top role playing game coming out?
> "Load times suck."
*[laughs in NVMe SSD]*
*[reboots and does it again within seconds]*
KBash. I recently found you a few months ago but dang dude, your videos are such top notch and you deserve way more subs. Your comedy and passion you put into your videos is something I can appreciate. Even though you may be a small youtuber, you have something that is truly different from all the rest, and that's a good thing. If you have a discord or something lemme know.
I was literally playing this 5 minutes ago
I loved Death of The Outsider but I totally respect and understand your critiques. But you forgot to mention that you don't actually have to kill the Outsider. I think that twist is one of the best parts of the game because it allows you to break the narrative that the game's title seemingly locks you into (and it's always fun to be a rebel).
I have loved the Dishonored series for such a long time now, so it's really nice to see somebody who loves it as much as I do. Great video!
I mean, technically it's still his "death", but in a more metaphorical way than a literal.
“Having percs will never hurt” JUICE WRLD WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION
I just thought about how a fat person would look in dishonored and for some reason it’s so hard to imagine
What
I think I disagree I loved the stealth finding the best way to get through and working out each puzzle. Also Ur the sort of player to chose corvo in 2
@ 23:40 , there sounds like there was a bit of an audio glitch, or something up with your voice recording. Just thought you might want to know.
When Samuel told me off and alerted the guards on my first playthrough, I shot him on the spot.
Soon as he said "thats why im letting them know you're coming" i froze time and sleep darted him then threw him in the ocean...the sailer drowns how ironic.
I love the first two games to death they are wonderful designed and a joy to play.
Haven't bother with Death of the Outsider and probably never will because of the same reasons you stated. It's crazy that form the title of the game they are already telling you the ending and, ironically, killing what made the outsider mysterious and interesting. He's suddenly not a abstract mysterious entity of neutral chaos, he's just another prick with a target on his back.
It's like making a Cthulhu game and making you kill him by harponing his face.
Do you not think that Death of the Outsider does enough to produce a similar eldritch feeling to the void itself?
I like the Outsider way too much. I couldn't bring myself to kill him.
Also the protagonist of DotO is so unlikeable, I don't even remember her name but I hate her.
@@Hanfgurkenhasser Billie Lurk.
Lmao you don't have to kill The Outsider.
3:26 anyone catch tha?
ZA WAURDO
Jojo reference
Dishonored 2 opening always felt like an E3 Demo
I’m doing my first Mostly Flesh and Steel playthrough and decided to challenge myself.
I’m on the hardest difficulty while also going on a clean hands and ghost run.
To me, the whole enjoyment of stealth is that it is very difficult.
What I’ve done for all Dishonored games/DLCs is to play through on a medium difficulty completely free form- sometimes sneaking past guards but just as often going on rampages. This almost always gets me high chaos, so I can see that ending personally.
Then I play through on easy and go for a super stealthy and nonviolent run, learning the real ropes of the stealth options and the nonviolent routes.
Then I play the hardest difficulty and usually self impose some sort of limit or goal (like Mostly Flesh and Steel or Ghost + Clean Hands) to challenge myself.
If I get bored or frustrated at a particular part I’ll usually just go on a rampage and then load a save after I die/run out of enemies.
It’s really fun and keeps it mixed while getting each ending.
I will say Death of the Outsider was a bit of a disappointment.
Like, it’s good, but not as good as the others.
It feels like a DLC, and I have mixed feelings about it.
Interestingly enough, the books are the same way.
Book 1 (Corroded Man) is an amazing book.
Book 2 is pretty good but suffers from a lack of a main villain (still really cool but not as good).
Book 3 is just... bad. It’s one of only 2 books I’ve ever started and put down without ever wanting to finish.
It feels like a DLC cause its a stand alone DLC
when the video game reviewer shoot his gun at the video game character i clapped my hands and laughed !
This sounds like a case of
Nobody asked
do you plan on making videos about Arkane's other games?
Kbash: plays a stealth game
Also kbash: complains about the game's focus on stealth
Love your stuff man its just this contradiction cracks me up.
P.s. please do a rise and fall of Mass Effect
As much as I really don’t want to admit it, the first game was my favorite
It's the best game though
@@utsavbasu1048 the second one is better in everything but story (arguably art style as well)
Fall? There is no fall, Dishonored 2 was amazing and DOTO was just a DLC that they decided to sell stand alone and even then was fun as hell.
Kbash, if you go around killing everything, then of course you won't understand the story.
Kbash : "haha knife go brrrr"
Can I ask how you got your fov like that on Xbox ?
depends on the genre, but in general I don't enjoy killing in games that much - and what I love about Dishonored is that it doesn't forces me to do so, I have the chance to come out from a situation without doing little to no harm. (except the tallboys. most of the time I try to avoid them, but gosh, backstabbing them feels so rewarding.)
also, I would argue with that you can't have fun during a stealthy low chaos playthrough, piling up fainted guards, overseers and/or whalers in weird poses and locations will never get not funny.
I know! Plus, theres a little bit of attachment to the world! When the credits role and the prologue, high chaos gives the most lackluster ending. Low chaos is hard and rewarding. But sometimes you just want to kill.
I like how you criticize the "forced morality" in the game but impose your biased opinion that the dishonored games are bad. its one thing to not like a popular game, thats 100% fine, its another thing to say that the game you dislike is a bad game just because you couldnt get into it or you disliked getting the "bad" ending because of your actions.
Also, I just saw your bank play through. There is a side quest you can go on that gives you a way to knock out every person inside the bank. This helps you get the reward, and helps sneaking around. The clockwork soldiers are still active, so there is still some challenge. But the guards are all asleep.
Was this game made with the same engine as bioshock?
Well, this was a very poor video to find your channel on, I thought this would be a good review of Dishonored but most of it was you completely missing how Dishonored works and complaining about the games stealth elements which you clearly are not very good at in the first place.
Your main point I want to address is the fact you seem to think the game doesn't allow for creative freedom in kills. StealthgamerBR would beg to differ. Looking at even a single one of their videos on creative stealth kills in Dishonored 2 and you realize just how many crazy scenarios you can set up in order to get a creative kill if you only took the time and effort to set it up and practice it if you want to go with the complicated ones.
You also seem to simply miss how Dishonored works. Its a *stealth* action game. Its fine if you personally prefer to go running in slaughtering people left right and centre without caring about stealth in the slightest, but the *stealth* part of stealth action still exists. The game is meant to be a game where you can go the entire game without getting spotted once, all you have to do is get used to guard patterns and know where they go and how long they stay in one spot, you don't even need to save scum as long as you take the time to learn.
I think they really need to do away with the dumb morality systems. I love the gameplay and it's aggravating that the story punishes you for playing it. I'm not saying I hate the way the world becomes more dangerous if you play aggressively. I just don't like how simply by playing the game you get doomed to the worst ending
I think Arkane did it well with Prey: the skills you can learn are not tied to the morality system.
Yeah, especially when stealth in Dishonored 2 only really works on easy difficulty. Anything higher gives the guards spider sense, plus there's no power to help you avoid pursuit or detection and no safe hiding spots like in other stealth games.
thats literally the whole point of the moral ambiguity of the game. playing the fun and easier way isnt often yield the “best” outcomes
@@wrenpyle7098 But that's stupid. The game is punishing you for enjoying it, for using the powers it advertised.
Me: hears faint sound of Za Warudo time stop sound at 3:27
Also me upon realizing this: WRYYYYYYYYYY!
Can I just say how much I appreciate how your "oh shit the reviewer talks to another version of himself oh wacky tacky funny haha times" are actually well written and witty and keep in line with the franchise your reviewing? honestly now that I bring it up I could say that about your recent stuff in general. I was worried you'd tried to play the silly cynical card too much when I first watched you with the skits and hot takes (I started with your Soul Cal vids) and I'd lose interest like others that did that, but you've really come into your own and have a strong balance of good analysis, humor, genuine joy for the games you review and criticism. I feel like you've really evolved from your early stuff and I don't know many game critics I can say that for. You've hit the level of "watch vid moment it comes up" and for me that takes effort, and I honestly didn't think you'd become that when I first watched you. So keep it up man. These vids where you review stuff you love honestly are my favourite.
why fall if the audience doesnt appreciate it its not the games fault. 80% of the buyers just rushing through the game by killing everybody ans its over in few hours you need to be strategic you need to take the game in living it taking the route of non seen and non killing i sure you its a great game
If the game doesn't hook the people who bought the first one, it's the game's fault. Knowing your audience and understanding what they want from your sequel isn't the same as pandering to them
One little thing I enjoyed in Death of the Outsider was trying to kill as many guards as possible using interpenetration. Funny and satisfying. Usually just aim at the feet at close/medium range. Story's still fascinating overall, especially the setting as you get to the cult's base
For me my issue with Dishonored was the exact opposite, I didn't feel like I was "punished" enough for high chaos runs. I want to see the city completely destroyed because I killed like 500 guards and 100 innocent civilians.
I love these games (and just replayed them all - working on platinum trophies 🙂 ), but I really appreciate this critique. Very clear and thoughtful with your praises, dislikes and suggestions.