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hey ik this you channel but i dont want you to get hate but i think the 4:53 “standard gay shit” im not you tube i love your content and i loved this video i hope your day is treating you well!!!!
8:06 That is the dumbest shit i have ever heard...I mean that kind of hug between Friends happened in hundreds of shows or films. Good god shut up with your Bullshit. This scene was completly fine but you weirdos make something out of it that isn't there
Hey um, I'm autistic and have major sensory issues so I just wanted to leave a little feedback about the dings used at the 6:00 mark. They're _really_ sharp and actually cause me physical pain when I hear them, and they're also really loud compared to your voice. I don't want to tell you how to create your own art, but I really like your channel and was hoping for future videos you might be able to tone down the loud, sharp noises? Sorry if this seems entitled, I'll watch either way, I'd just prefer not to feel actual pain as a result 😅
@@PopPopPopPop Bro Did you actually watch the ending of the movie or just the sigma memes lol. He knows he's broken and wouldn't want anyone to idolise him.
Same! I also see the obsession and also hate. I saw a Tiktok trend of people bashing alternative people and saying if their kid dressed like that, they’d disown them and other horrible things. As a goth, the subculture is music-based and is full of creative and expressive people. It’s irritating and sad that normies treat it like a trend.
@@dibujos._.infinitos3436 yes bullying builds character and helps people grow going through life without obstacles when your young leads to people who think the world revolves around them "karens" and people who just expect everything to be easy when it really isn't facing the harsh reality at a younger age helps you develop and understand it better
@@bigburritolover Apparently, one of the actors on Heartstopper was accused of queerbaiting because he was seen holding hands with a female co-star. Even though he has stated in interviews that he did not want to publicly reveal his sexuality, the backlash and harassment was so bad that he had no other choice but to come out as bisexual on Twitter
@@lexxi_arvill8769 But has anybody thought these actors might silently benefit from these "sexuality fiascos", I mean who was actually there to confirm coming out as bisexual on Twitter was such a terrible thing for him? The heartstopper actor was supposedly taking a break from social media because how suffocating the whole issue was, but i'm afraid that in less than two weeks after he was already back posting photos of his biceps or something, so, was it really that bad? He got even more popular by saying he was bisexual and the fans got exactly what they wanted to hear from him. Online harrassment is wrong, but if You are in the public eye, you still have the choice to remain silent, you know, the "forced coming out fiasco" is a white lie rooted in trading victimhood for sympathy. And I bet if Jenna Ortega finally said she was lesbian or bisexual, her fans would be secretly happy while cursing the system on the surface because oh lord, who doesn't love pretty and funny celebrities who are also gay or at least half one? That is the modern formula for worldwide fame!
My main thing with this ciclye of quirck character getting hyper famous and then getting cringe is that, at the end of the day it may seem that people are liking the weirdness and the quirckness but in reality it just comes off as parody and bullying, and of course, capitalizing. As a person who was called the "weird kid of the class", seeing the way people react to these characters with an imense romantization or a imense hate just shows that people really don't like weird and alternative persons, they just like the idea of it and the selling of it, because in reality being eddie or even wednesday is actually pretty lonely and sad and just results in a lot of trauma.
thats the thing!! they like the idea of having wednesday as a friend or eddie as a boyfriend, but would they still have the same attitude towards them a month into them being friends/a couple, with their quirky little antics displayed in full throttle??
yeah, especially with wednesday. she's not even really alternative, they've just dressed her in black versions of current popular fashion, at most some tiktok alt that's gonna be out of style in 2 years and that we're all gonna cringe at.
And then the people who still genuinely like and relate to Wednesday or Eddie after it’s “popular” get bullied bc they’re “weird” characters and “it’s cringey if you relate to them”
yeah it's weird. and i understand when alt people are bothered by it. not because you're only allowed to like them when you're alt, but because we all know that the people who pretend to love them now were absolutely vile to anyone who wasn't a glammed up hollywood version of them.
As someone who literally had stones thrown at her for being the 'weirdo' in school I can't help but be salty seeing people wear alt style as a costume for tiktok views.
I have to agree. I was the painfully silent type as a teen that wore black and chains and safety pins and the only thing I was known for was saying “why don’t we blow them up?” Which was taken hugely out of context from a classroom debate. I was accused in an English lesson about gothic literature of listening to a band that ate babies (Not true would like to clarify not even sure where they heard that from) It’s nice that teens now seem to be embracing that sort of thing? But I don’t trust that kids aren’t still getting bullied over real life versions of the content that everyone’s fawning over. I think we kind of have a right to be salty. Not to get too unnecessarily personal but I had a pretty hard time at home with a criminal alcoholic for a father and I suffered mentally for it. I had kids make fun of me while I had panic attacks and nervous breakdowns. I had teachers treat me badly for not reacting well to having to read books with horrendously abusive content to the characters. I’m only in my 20s. I doubt the last 5+ years have created such a difference that teens who are the way I was aren’t still suffering at the behaviour of others while on social media their traits are being sold as desirable and the next greatest trend. People are literally profiting off of the things they have to suffer through. That definitely feels like the sort of thing you should be allowed to be outright furious over.
@@hollyro4665 TV is not real life and everything in moderation. Character traits that may be fun to watch on TV for an hour, may be incredibly annoying in real life and too much exposure. Some character traits are fun to watch precisely because they are annoying to the other characters and it is funny to watch, say, the Big Bang Theory and the group deal with Sheldon's antics. It would not be as funny if I was the one who had to deal with him though.
@@Pentium100MHz It sounds like you're insinuating that people should be bullied if they're too weird and annoying by your standards in real life. I hope that's not the case. As another already mentioned, it's not something people can turn on or off in real life, neither should they be bullied for it.
@@-SuperCraigIsGay- Please do not put words in my mouth. Otherwise, can you show which part of my post justifies abuse? If someone is annoying in real life, I can just not associate with that person. I don't think I would be able to be friends with Sheldon for multiple reasons, but that does not mean I should just beat him up. Just walking away is easier (unless he would constantly harass me I guess) and it's not like beating him up would change anything (other than get me in trouble with the law).
What’s baffling to me is I went to school with kids exactly like Eddie and the same kids who bullied them post about how they love stranger things and the kids who are considered weird and outcasts are their favorite characters. I just sit there like oh really?? Because I can think of specific incidences of you bullying someone in school who acted exactly like Eddie. These same bullies also wear the hellfire club merch which is essentially the losers club while they called the table I sat at with my friends the loser table and it’s like.. if these weren’t actors in a show you actually wouldn’t like these people at all lol. I think there’s something about knowing that it’s an actor behind the screen and seeing Mike or Eddie do nerdy things is quirky and cute because at the end of the day it’s Finn Wolfhard and Joseph Quinn. There’s still a coolness factor surrounding the characters when you remember the actors and they are also main characters so you’re supposed to enjoy and root for them. I just wished this sudden new love of weirdos and outcasts transferred over to real life but sadly I don’t think it will
id also like to add how watching anime suddenly became cool after the pandemic. before you'd get bullied and called an incel but now it's quirky and you HAVE to have watched kakegurui or JJK, etc. it's absurd
@@k-onenthusiast5234 eh, anime became more mainstream even before the pandemic. at least in my country back when i was in high school 10 year ago, anime was already pretty popular and you weren't necessarily considered weird for watching them
@@666FallenShadow it could depend on place, all the places ive been to and all the people i know said they used to get made fun of for it or people wouldn't talk to them because of it
"Normies" don't actually actually like quirkiness or altness or neurodivergency, they just like the concept to wear as a costume. I was bullied for dancing like Wednesday (unhinged) and now everyone is doing it and failing because they're not unhinged enough lmao.
Yeah, like I saw a tweet saying something like 'you all love autistic traits on fictional characters but when it's a real autistic person you say they're "annoying" Honestly I just wish allistics/neurotypicals would shut up for once
Honestly it’s annoying to me that a healthy amazing friendship gets called “queerbaiting” etc. People can be friends! Friends can be close! I know a lot of smaller streamers who get shipped with their close friends a lot and this gives same vibe. It’s like the internet just forgot about the concept of friendship. Also to clarify a bit: it’s okay to like a ship, if you ship them cool! But when you either bring real people into it or cause discourse over your ship being “canon” to other shippers or peop,e in the fandom. Or if your ship ending up not being canon in the end and you hate on the show and it’s crew.
yes, i completely agree. once i was telling someone that they can ship whatever they like and they can see the character as whatever they want but not to force it onto others. what did they respond? "if you see those interactions as platonic, you're just being ignorant" i swear having friends doesn't exist anymore, one day family is gonna disappear too
The aromantic and omnisexual parts of me both desperate for representation are constantly battling to decide if i ship something or are they just friends
this hasnt much to do w the point, but i just want to rant for a bit about adaptations, friendships and queerbaiting and the tv adaptation of hill house i get that friendships, familial relationships, female relationships in general are great, but sometimes i feel kind of disappointed when adaptations get rid of sth that i thought was kinda gay. like when they made eleanor and theo sisters in the tv adaptation of hill house. i liked that, in the book, only female characters had magic, and it was concurrently exploited and ridiculed by the male characters. in the show, everyone encountered supernatural events, and it ignored commentary i found interesting. i get that the creators didnt agree w my interpretation and thats completely ok, but it's kind of disappointing when adaptations ignore ur favourite parts of a book. it feels like you just aren't on the same page, and you werent engaging w the same book, you know? i read the ending of hill house, and i thought, well that's a happy ending. she's found a place where she belongs. shirley jackson wanted to board herself up in her home and never see another human being, and that's incredibly relatable of her. she only ever wrote about people who boarded themselves up in their homes and she hated socializing w the ppl in her small town, the idea of becoming one w your home and never leaving obviously had a draw for her. it just felt like male extroverts were adapting a female introvert's book. (wait until you hear my views on hitchcock's rebecca lmao) actually could i. i really disliked how hitchcock demonized mrs danvers and made her the creepy lesbian predating on the heterosexual female protagonist, when danny obv had eyes for nobody but rebecca (i know, it's just my interpretation, but the predatory lesbian trope really wasn't necessary). was danny gay? i have no idea, but du maurier did base rebecca off her publisher's wife, whom she admired a great deal. (and her husband's ex-wife, who she felt inferior to, but that's besides the point) du maurier also did say some debatably queer stuff. i just hate it when male directors get their grubby little hands on books written by women. (or maybe i just hate screen adaptations of books about debatably gay women who want to own a house. in today's economy? never)
@@4kiyotsu.0 People like that who are ADAMANT that their headcanons are canon, need to understand that, when it comes to that point, they. are. reading. way. too. far. into. a. tv. show. I get that “Representation” is an important thing. To have that feeling that you as an individual are not alone in this world, it can be comforting. However,this is not “Representation” at all, this is “Projection”. They are seeing what they want to see, and labeling everything else that is not a part of their vision as “surface level” or “incorrect” etc, proves this. It’s sh*t like this that causes actors like Kit Connor to feel pressured to come out not by their own terms.
@@Pierre371 However,this is not “Representation” at all, this is “Projection”. yup i literally talked to a few people who said the show was queer baiting, one of them was a lesbian and surprise she said wednesday was obviously a lesbian and enid was obviously a lesbian because of her wardrobe, another person was aroace and said Wednesday was aroace 🤷♀
It does kind of suck how a lot of the time, if a character/person somehow deviates from the norm or doesn't completely fit the stereotype for their gender, people either automatically assume they're gay and/or get mad at the idea of them not being gay. As a grungy tomboy who wears a lot of unisex types of clothes and has some typical "masculine" personality traits, I'm still attracted to dudes and have been in a legit hetero relationship. Your style/appearance and whatnot doesn't mean you have to fall into a certain group
Gay woman here. I loved the show and i like to read fanfictions (to fill the void after the show ends) but i also don’t see the obsession of some people to see the character as gay or whatnot. I liked the show for its mystery and humour and that’s it. Not everyone who doesn’t fit needs to be gay. Especially Wednesday, she has no deeper emotions 95% of the time except negative ones and that’s the charm of her character. Just see the show as what it is, not as what you want it to be
@@god3485 Yep. There's also this thing in certain fanbases where, if the most popular ship is a gay one, there are people who will call you a homophobe if you don't ship it. Even more so if you like a hetero ship featuring one of those characters. It happens even with bi/pan characters, or those whose orientations just never come up in the story. It's some crazy stuff
@@Rey_Palpatine lmao i once was called homophobic for shipping two characters that were gay in the show in a straight ship. If i can ship straight characters in a gay relationship, i can ship gay characters in a straight relationship. Not that deep
@Ankitha Mahesh then that’s bad writing. Which is sadly true for many characters bcs they are used as bait. Characters that are written to feel real arent like that. Like normal humans. I am gay but that is only a small, unimportant for my personality, part. The journey to realise your attraction might be a nice point in the show but characters should be beyond their sexuality. For example, Cosima in Orphan Black (and Delphine for discovering herself) or Toni and Shelby in The Wilds. They are nicely written. While shows like Riverdale just made a character gay and based the whole plot around that just because people liked a ship
wednesday is not a netflix character tho. she has been a much more iconic and famous character over the years, and is the main character. meanwhile eddie is a side character so his popularity didn’t make sense as much as wednesday did. also wednesday was not jenna’s breakout role. she played the main character on stuck in the middle, she was in x, scream, american carnage, and the fallout. she had 10 million followers before wednesday was even out.
Thank you, I was so confused by her saying Jenna was a relatively unknown actor as if she hasn't been in some of the best horrors of recent memory and been in multiple popular shows prior to this
Wednesday in general is not a Netflix character, but _this version_ of Wednesday _is_. These tiktoks and conversations aren't about previous versions of her, they're specifically about the Netflix portrayal.
i was confused by this statement, but i suppose the creator means “breakout” as in popular to the general public. people said the same about keke palmer even though shes starred in countless projects before “nope” and was even famous in many black households (and twitter memes). and it’s true jenna hasnt been talked about as widespread as she is now so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ that’s the only explanation that makes sense to me for the creator saying that
Jenna Ortega: richie Rich, Jane the virgin, stuck in the middle, Elena of Avalor, quest started on bizzardvark(Olivia Rodrigo's disney show), you(season 2), the babysitter killer 2,yes day, the fallout,scream 5, x movie Joseph Quinn: quest started on Game of thrones... that's it lol amin no hate to Joe ofc i love him and Eddie but like yeah Jenna has been famous long before Wednesday reboot show
I grew up with both the black and white show and the movies as a youngish person. I don't like how cliche Wednesday is. I thought I wasn't going to like because of modern Tim Burtonish, but I ended up disliking it for how teensy cliche it is. Addams Family was a satire on American culture and this is just another one of those samey cliche dark/paranormal teen shows like Sabrina, Riverdale, or many of those CW sci-fi shows.
I agree completely! From the first episode I only really watched for Wednesday and her deadpan dark humour. Which is one of the main reasons I enjoyed Addams family series and movies to begin with. And even that started to fade towards the end of the series. I’m not a teen anymore. Which cute boy gets the girl just doesn’t interest me like it used to and I’m not overly invested in teen girl friendship falling out because “you’re not giving me enough attention”. I’ve been there, done that. Maybe that just means I wasn’t the target audience?
It bothered me slightly that she wasn't as violent or "Addams" as previous depictions. Like, her hobby is writing. What about electrocuting people? Why doesn't she go out gravedigging anymore? She had to be more normal to interact with others as was needed for the show. I still liked the show, I just like the older Addams style more I guess
@@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376 I think the core of the criticism is that people wish Wednesday was actually as weird as she’s supposed to be, and as she mentions herself being (like swimming with sharks and beheading dolls for fun)
I literally only see this with large mainstream fandoms. Any smaller scale fandoms that are deeper built into traditional fandom spaces like Tumblr, Ao3, etc couldn’t care less about any sort of cringe factor. But the more mainstream things get, people start acting as though there is only one way to enjoy a piece of media. Suddenly cosplaying is weird, shipping is frowned upon & any merch other than t-shirts or posters is suddenly calling someone “obsessed” or “one of THOSE fans”. It’s a weird transition of fandom spaces becoming public. Normal fandoms that are not in the mainstream have open shipping wars, and ships and cosplays and x-readers and all, but now it’s weird when a big piece of media has fans who actually ACT like fans. I saw someone say seeing edits of characters from a show on TikTok weirded them out, and that really sums up how mainstream fandom spaces work. It’s not built to be a fandom anymore. TLDR: Normies aren’t chronically online enough to understand proper fandom etiquette
Yeah it kinda real annoying sometimes when good shows get hyperpopular because "normies" (idk just people who don't regularly engage in many fandoms) don't know how to act and ruin it. At least with Stranger Things the character I latched onto was Robin, and she doesn't seem to have a huge mainstream fanbase, it's mostly a lot of autistic lesbians like me lol. Makes it easier to enjoy.
This is why I'm glad though that I mostly watch cartoons. They have the loveliest fandoms and the communities feel so tight knit despite usually being fairly large fandoms (the owl house, she ra, amphibia, etc)
Literally took the words right out of my mouth. I used to cosplay on tiktok until I’d get bombarded with comments calling me “cringe” or other names and it threw me in for a loop. I used to be made fun of years ago for liking anime and being a fandom kid and it was basically just that but on tiktok. It surprised me that the people bullying me were kids who were into fandoms themselves but prided on being “normal”
I'd say that fandoms are generally more open now, whether it's a smaller or bigger fandom, partially because of TikTok. I think TikTok is just like Tumblr, except it's easier to use, so you don't have to dig deep to find unusual stuff, thus it makes everything easier to go viral.
I’m so annoyed by the Wednesday character she’s the idea of what an outcast is from the perspective of someone who isn’t. She isn’t an outcast everyone in the school is in love with her or want to be her friend no matter how much of a jerk she is. It’s just frustrating. Outcasts don’t have friend they’re actually bullied and it affects them idk. It’s just annoying cause it actually sucks being an outcast. People don’t fall in love with you they don’t want to be near you because your WEIRD. It’s not accurate at all.
Exactly! I find it annoying how in every series where there is a character who's supposed to be the "misfit" or "outcast" they make everyone have a crush on them or wanna be their friend. Whenever we have to do anything in groups, I always get picked as the last choice. Whenever we get to choose where we sit, no one wants to sit with me. It's "everybody thinks your weird and hates you" not "Everybody secretly is in love with you cause you're ✨Quirky✨ and ✨different✨"
Honestly I had no idea why the writers were so steadfast on giving her so many people obsessed with her (ESPECIALLY the love interests). I love the character, don't get me wrong, but I wish the writing wasn't so lazy.
I mean Wednesday isn’t a new character, and she does get bullied a lot in the show. Only a handful of people are truly friendly to her which isn’t unrealistic in my opinion. In real life depending on where you are it’s not impossible to have friends no matter what you’re like
I feel like a big problem here is that queerbating does not apply to real people in the vast majority of cases. Queerbating is more of a marketing strategy then a behavior you can show irl. Most of the time when someone is considered to be queerbating they are either in the closet like the heartstopper situation, or they just have a different way of expressing themselves, which is completely fine. The biggest example that I can think of is Damiano, the lead singer of måneskin that especially here in Italy is getting a lot of hate from people like these. Also a problem with this mentality is that it can give homophobes a platform because a homophobic argument I have seen thrown around a lot is that people are doing it for attention, and if us queer people spoon feed them example of people doing just that it becomes way easier for the hate to spread. This is talking from an Italian prospective, where we are still far from marriage equality and a bill to make our lives a little bit easier didnt pass in the senate only like a year ago, but I’m sure it’s not much better in the us
but sometimes you're marketing people, such as with actors and stars and such. in china at least, there's even a term for it called "mai fu" where they pair lesser known actors up and get them to interact in maybe-gay ways, start a bromance, to rile the fujoshis up. it's a marketing tactic china's still not ok w actual gay ppl, and if one of those actors actually comes out as gay, their careers probably wont go all that well, but as long as they stay in the will-they-won't-they-are-they-actually phase, they can appeal to both the homophobes and the fujoshis, and their companies profit
I'm a fan of Maneskin, but I don't really know their sexualities as it felt weird to research that, it none of my business. But I didn't know Damiano is getting hate 🥺 it's just so stupid! I always assumed he is straight, he even has a girlfriend... why did we fight so hard for clothes to be considered gender neutral, but now as soon as a man puts earings he is blamed for queerbating? We are going nowhere..
@@cabbage-soup exactly, celebrities are often "gay for pay" and people from both sides of the political spectrum fall for it. There's no progress, there's only profit.
I have a friend who is just like Eddie. Even kinda looks like him to the point he cosplayed him last summer. He has long hair, dresses punk, denim on denim with sparky bedazzled tiger tshirts. Okay enough looking guy. He loves weed and is an actual communist and is really into radical politics. Really open about his interests and sexuality. But is just a good guy who just cares about doing your thing. He has a whole him against the world support others mentality. Tell kids off and always says what he thinks. Really dry humor. He was so similar to Eddie to a kinda creepy level but he was bullied relentlessly for all of highschool for just generally being different and being weird. I always think about the hypocrisy with charaters apposed to real people
Srsly. At once i thought i was just being stupid and gatekeepey for being kinda mad at the popular girls for discovering Wednesday. I've known her character longer than they have, yet, it seems like a topic only the popular and cool ones can talk abt like they've known it for years. And the less popular, who prolly know more, still get side lined. Its like ppl bullying u for watching anime and now having anime inspired styles lol. I dont hate the popular girls, but i still have a feeling of slogjt anger with them
They just love characters like that in media. The other day a girl I know was like "Introverted/quiet characters are so hot and misunderstood" and I was there like "Didn't you say me being quiet is annoying and mean?". They only like you on the screen, in reality people like Wednesday, Eddie & Tomioka Giyuu are outcasts.
Especially orientation of people who like the opposite sex and still want to express there creativity through music art and clothes but be bashed and called names for it, absolutely gross for the people who want equality for everyone aaa
they idealize characters like wednesday and eddie but grow hostile when real people, predominately neurodivergent people, engage with these characters as well, characters who are like THEM. they can't idealize real people and resort to making fun of them for being 'cringe' and 'weird'.
@@Ionreallysleep you don’t have to be purposefully dense as a means to prove me wrong. obviously I’m not talking about wednesday being homicidal, this is clearly about how she socializes with others, how she dresses, how she expresses herself, etc. she’s a goth who has difficulty expressing and understanding her emotions, which is something plenty of people, especially ND people can empathize with. they’re often perceived as weird or unappealing by society’s standards in the real world. that’s my point.
@@kashe7285 wednesday is a character not a person though people who act like her are seen as annoying because acting like someone your not is annoying and its not normal to have that level of obsession over a character
What I dislike about SOME of the fans ( mainly on Twitter ) is the fact that they are deciding and guessing jenna’s sexuality SO SO much and are so concerned wether a 20 year old woman is lesbian or straight….like cmon now Wednesday is understandable because that’s a fictional character n all, but jenna herself ?? she isnt an anime character bruh, that’s a REAL person. They gotta stop claiming jenna as something we don’t even know she is 🧍🏽♀️
Can we stop automatically assuming a sexuality of a character, pressuring the writing team to announce them as queer, or insulting them if they’re sexuality isn’t announced. I understand that the audience sees a character that diverts from the “norm” and they identify with them as their sexuality or identity, but the character can exist without defining these characteristics. Wednesday’s sexuality wasn’t really defined before. She had some male romantic interests, but she never seemed too interested in them. She could be asexual or just socially awkward where her sexuality hasn’t been fully explored. There’s more than gay and straight, so in the instance of the Heartstopper actor, wtf is wrong with being bi? so can ppl stfu about pressuring ppl to reveal their sexuality to feel validated in theirs. Representation in media is great, but forcing people to out themselves or face reputation demise is fucked or even needing to define the “out of the norm” behavior as queer when it may not be. These pressures have a really narrow view on sexuality, identity, the fluidity of femininity and masculinity, and queerness.
I totally agree, I really do not know why people make sexuality of characters such a big deal, nowadays I see quite a lot of LGBTQ representation on Netflix and also there was one in the Wednesday show (moms of the boy who was in the coma), I really do not think the sexuality of characters has to be highlighted every single time
I am not disagreeing with your points, but I do find the phrase "Can we stop automatically assuming a sexuality of a character" (in regards to people assuming a character is queer) ironic and kinda funny. Just bc characters are usually automatically assumed to be straight. But yes, I agree forcing people to out themselves is very much wrong - Rowan Ellis has very recently made a good video on that subject, I would recommend it.
@@crayonsmmmm3509 I understand that many assume characters to be straight unless they depict behaviors of socially agreed queerness or are different that what is socially agreed as straightness, but what I meant by the assumption of the sexuality of the characters being bad is the pressuring of the cast, narrative, and writers to conform to that. Everyone can self insert themselves and their views, but when people want to overwrite what is already put down or put forward as their perception being the only truth to the character is quite insulting and toxic. A character can just exist without needing to represent any group, or by representing them all by not being truly defined in that way.
@@crayonsmmmm3509 it’s meant more of how people really force it. You do have a point saying that poeple will assume the character is straight, but most people won’t really fight about it. But the way they force directors or actors to say their sexuality is so messed up.
The only things anyone should be saying about Jenna is how phenomenal she did in the role and how incredibly impressive it is that she learned some German and cello and put A TON of research into a dance that she shouldn't have needed to choreograph (unless that's something she WANTED to do, I don't know).
I have been watching more one off movies lately and because of that i often felt a bit lonely cos those movies usually dont have a fandom or the fandom is mostly inactive. But seeing what could happen to a popular character makes me rethink that and be glad for every small/ halfdead fandom that im in. Because what is hapening around Wednesday just makes me cringe or feel seconhand emberesment. The Wednesday fandom mostly consists of two kinds of people: VERY talented artists and “im fourteen and this is deep” tik tok edgy kids
@@onelius Like exploring the ruins of a once glorious place, now fallen to ruin. Also every popular fandom, especially those with a younger audience, has their share of cringe. It happens. I find the new Wednesday show too toothless and teen-oriented for my tastes, but if someone enjoys it then more power to them.
There’s a certain degree of “let people like thing” when it comes to labelling things young women, queer folk and nd people enjoy but also “just because that person is in the public eye does not mean they owe you anything” because no Jenna Ortega doesn’t need to tell you anything about her sexuality she doesn’t need to confirm Wednesday and Enid for next season as girlfriends. Joesph Quinn doesn’t need to tell you where he lives to the point that he was doxxed and his information put online for anyone to see. Enjoy the show, enjoy the character, relate to them, make your content but keep in mind that the actors in the production are real people with feelings. Also yeah the alt thing does kinda sting but what can you do? If it’s gonna make a company money they’re gonna capitalise on whatever subculture or genre they can
I've never liked that whole let people like thing in some cases. like cmon ladies/queer folks/POCs, raise your standards, and tell the studio's you want better stuff than this.
The thing is, it isn’t actual neurodiverse people. it’s usually either fakers seeking attention, or dumb teenagers virtue signaling. I can’t speak for lqbtq people but I can say the neurodiverse community is incredibly non toxic.
Honestly, it's just irritating sometimes. All the popular kids at my school right now who absolutely were terrible to me are now dressing like how I dress and acting how I act because it's cool and quirky to be like Wednesday. I absolutely love Wednesday, one of my hyperfixations right now, but how it's suddenly become "cool" to act how Wednesday does, what I got pestered for for years is now commonly accepted. I like to see that, but that doesn't erase the fact that the people now doing it to be quirky are the same people who bullied people for acting like this. No hate to Wednesday, I love it, and I love how it's bringing things like neurodivergency into the light in a way that many of us approve of (yes, it's not confirmed). But some of the fans? I don't like it.
it’s always been like that. teenagers want to look and act like the medias that’s trending rn. it’s like when people wore nirvana shirts but weren’t aware it was a band.
As a person who grew up with the original show as a constant thing in my house I agree with your parents that the Wednesday show does feel more close to the campy sitcom vibe (which I freaking loved). Also as a kid who grew up being bullied for being a punky goth, wears all black and is different kid, it both warms my heart and weirds me out how in recent year the ‘outcast’ has began to become so beloved. It makes me happy cause kids like me are growing up in a slightly better world where yeah they’ll probably still be bullied but they have the knowledge and cultural mainstream idols to look to. But it does weird me out because back in my day (early 2000’s to mid 2010’s) outcast in movies were cool sometimes but never to this extreme. This new mixture of internet culture and fandom is taking everything and turning it up to 11. Now ‘popular’ kids are into alt characters and outwardly show that but when actually alt kids do it they still get bullied… it’s so weird to see. I’ll never be upset when alt characters are given there flowers but I will when people only accept them and not people equivalent to them irl.
The thing is, real life people can't queerbait. That's just not possible. A show can do it, yes. But to the actors in the show. And being forced to come out before being ready for it, because of this, is horrible.
This is why I hate fandoms today. Not everything is gay. Didn't we all fight hard to stop the forcing of the "guys and girls can't be friends" narrative??? Do we now gotta do this with same sex friendships!?
@@IceQueen975 i do agree with the narrative “not everything is gay” but sometimes people want to have headcanons? headcanons don’t harm anyone and it’s FICTIONAL.
Am I the only one getting tired of "fans" trying to figure out and invent the character's sexuality? It makes me so uncomfortable and it's just plain creepy
As a semi-old and huge fan of The Addams Family, I almost stopped when you said you weren’t familiar because I was like “How will they be able to review this accurately without a point of reference?” But then you brought your adorable parents on with their frame of reference and it just goes to show how good you are at these reviews and how you do try be as thorough as possible. Keep up the good work with your channel.
i think wednesday in this version is autism-coded (and i like the idea of her being queer/being with enid), but the fanwars have got to stop. people argue about whether you can like wednesday or do her dance or cosplay her, but that type of discourse just doesn't work with wednesday because well.... she's wednesday addams. she's too big of a character to gatekeep.
But like this shit doesn't happen as much, or at least isn't seen as super cringy, in smaller fandoms. I wish people would just be okay with people being fans
You're not wrong, but you have to get how much it sucks to see the exact people who once bullied you for being autistic and doing autistic things, stanning a character that's heavily coded
@@alexolivers9476 Yeah but it isn't a PROBLEM in smaller fandoms to any concerning extent, because if there's less buzz surrounding the property or it's older and is past its "prime" persay there is less manpower amongst fans to harass and nitpick the stars on the topic of the show or their thoughts surrounding it. Yeah actors still might get questions at conventions, but they won't get bullied by thousands of kids on Twitter to come out when they're probably not even queer! Like I'm sure Charlie Cox doesn't give a flying fck if you ship Daredevil and the Punisher, but people are now labelling Jenna as a lesbian and again, harassing her, on socials ab it, just bc of that interview clip where she's flustered over Gwendoline Christie. (no hate intended btw if this comes across as aggressive)
it's annoying asf bc i was alt in high school and i had people laughing at me, people coming up to me asking if they could see my wrists, people calling me slurs. and now these same types of people are out here thirsting over ppl like eddie and wednesday like... brother in christ, shut up maybe.
It annoys me how a good portion of the people I saw irl drooling over Eddie Munson were the EXACT type of people who would bully him if he went to school with them, the way they bullied other kids who were "weird" or differed from their norm in any way
Wednesday existed well before Munson so I don't understand the comparison. People love Wednesday because she was an iconic gloomy character in a league of her own when the Addams family aired?? She's supposed to be campy
Wednesday is popular with, for lack of a better word, "normies". Your average young viewer is obsessed with Wednesday now but most either hadn't heard of the Addams Family at all prior or had heard of it but just saw it as this weirdo goth/alt kid thing like The Nightmare Before Christmas, Hocus Pocus or Beetlejuice. It was never STRANGER THINGS levels of popularity in the internet age even with fans talking about watching it around Halloween time every year. Now the same kinds of people who would, or even still do, bully the goth/alt kids who maybe dress or act like Wednesday or Munson are gushing about the characters because it's trendy on Tiktok.
Personally this hurts. A lot. I was the weird, gifted, friendless, always reading, can’t relate to anyone, dresses weird, fidgeting, geeky, friendless outcast. It left some pretty deep emotional scars and I still to this day have trouble believing anyone would actually want to be around me. On top of that, I’ve been an Adams Family fan since I was like five and my dad showed me the old show. I’ve memorized the theme song, gone to see plays, and dressed up as Wednesday. She was always my favorite, as I was also a young, dark-haired girl, and I related to her. So seeing it become so popularized… it’s very painful to me. I kind of wish the show was never made as I feel like this fandom has been taken from me, that it’s lost its meaning. But it’s not cool to gatekeep so I’m just doing my best to enjoy the new show for what it is, and keep to myself.
Posers and trend chasers are nothing new, don't lose sleep over it. It's only a trend for a while, then it will be forgotten by the idiots who obsessed over something they aren't even a part of in the first place. The same thing happened with Eddy Munson, and now that that's died down, metal culture hasn't really changed. It's because culture is about more than just a hairdo and an outfit, it's about how you feel about the Adams Family, and how I feel about Motörhead. Culture is timeless, and no amount of TikTok views can change that until those people actually start to gain interest in the substance behind the style
Like all fads, this soon shall fade again. Remember how many people were suddenly into D&D after Stranger Things? Then poof, like nothing happened, everything is back in "order".
2 best friends almost died fighting different sides of the same battle so Wednesday finally puts her hug boundary aside because she's appreciating Enid's life, participation in the mystery, & hypothetical sacrifice. And mfs (the fans. Not the writers. Y'ALL.) wanna make it gay? Y'all probably fuck anybody you vibed with for 2 weeks without even really knowing em, y'all need to learn prioritization. Wednesday is the last person to be wondering what her sexual orientation is & Enid has a massive crush on a specific dude, so don't wait up 😂🤦
They tried so hard to push the narrative in the show that Wednesday was nothing but an outcast that people felt weirded out by. Bitch, she had two immediate love interests within the first WEEK of showing up to that school. She also immediately had a friend who tolerated her “quirky” dark humor and rudeness. People in real life would LOVE her because everyone loves a quirky, conventionally attractive goth girl, or wants to be one (in theory, since I know people also mock people who are “different”. They only favor it when it benefits them). But, also, the show and her jokes were a little too on the nose. I think Jenna herself did well, and I love her. I really blame the writing. All of her little quips made me go, “WE GET IT, you’re dark and edgy and like…killing people, or something. Add more DEPTH”.
yeah, the performance was really good. but by the 100th "clever" snide evil comment that has no payoff because she never actually does anything crazy after the literal first episode, it kinda flatlines. it's not jenna ortega's fault of course, she didn't write this thing.
Most 'weird' or outcast people don't get the attention their fantasized media versions get because the Netflix and media versions are played by actresses and are designed to be attractive. Most weird people like a irl Wednesday wouldn't look like a 20 something actress but more like a baggy eyed recluse that's unkept and out of shape. Now if you're weird or a recluse and suddenly start to care about your appearance or suddenly drop weight, you'll find the same people gossiping about how weird you are suddenly talk about your mysteriousness and quirkiness. It's happened to me as an adult and teenager.
True. I feel sorry about the "weird" people in the comments talking about their experiences, but they most likely get treated this way because aren't as attractive as Jenna Ortega. Sad reality, but true
That's true sadly I was always the "freak" and as a kid I was also extremely ugly, so the only reason why I had any friends was either because I met them in games online, or because of my teacher feeling so bad for me that she asked the nicest kids from my class to care for me Then when I was 16 or 17 it straight up felt like the life cycle of a butterfly - I stopped looking so horrible and instead started looking like the typical "goth gf" Google images result (I starting taking care of myself and also my baby face was finally gone) It changed things quite a bit, as much as people still make fun of me there are so many online simps who claim to enjoy how odd I tend to be At this point I feel like most of my online presence revolves around the weird things I do, but I bet if I still looked the way I did as a 12 year old none of it would be positive since then it just wouldn't be "cute" or "interesting" to them anymore Welp, life is odd for sure
I’m going this dilemma right now and without blowing my own horn, I’m considered “Handsome”/“attractive” but whenever I date a girl they straight up tell me they don’t like my mysteriousness or quirks and leave me for it. I’m pretty sure this works only for females, there’s a market for quirky quiet girls today after all. Specifically in the US men are expected to fit a certain mold or they get cut.
It’s funny, just yesterday I was conversing with some of my co workers (who were defiantly the more popular/attractive/easy to like people) and they had brought up this other coworker of mine and how weird and dumb it was that she brought up something to do with her DND figures and how she needs to paint them and going into detail of them and all. And this co worker I quite like we both have the same kind of interest in the same kind of dumb things, and I enjoy letting her talk about it. And I mentioned to these co workers that “yeah I have a interest in all that stuff to, the difference between me and her is that I understand when nobody gives a shit about what I’m talking about” and then I see this video and what I said yesterday make sense. People truly don’t give a shit what it’s like being an “outsider” or whatever you want to call it, and people who truly are an outsider get frustrated with these characters that portray something that just isn’t real. These people don’t know how to handle someone with strange interest or personalities and they don’t want to be with them. This shit is lonely. In order for me to fit in just a tiny bit I have to act like a chameleon and leave out a huge portion of what makes me truly me in order to get some acceptance amongst my peers. I wish I could’ve stuck up for my coworker more or just acted my true self, but it isn’t that easy, I don’t get any rewards or accolades for being quirky or different, I don’t get the love and attention these characters get. I’m just left out. And this never gets portrayed really. That’s not marketable. It’s just too real for people to swallow. And not to ramble on anymore but the reality of these loner, queer, quirky people that these romanticized versions never show is that me and my co worker are the two most common paths that we take. You either freely express yourself and alienate everyone around you, or you tuck away parts of yourself to make up new versions that are more acceptable to the point that you’re not really sure who exactly “you” is. And these show writers, of all people, don’t seem to understand how aggressively some of us would like to just be normal, but stuck in a limbo of not really knowing if that’s the right way to feel or not.
As a queer and potentially neurodivergent person I do think that these communities are going in too hard! Most people who are queer and specifically neurodivergent don't find out anything about their diagnosis until later on in life - OR EVER! Why is it essential to label these characters as having to belong into certain diagnosis within the show when the reality we all belong on a spectrum with queerness and specifically in my case (26 years old with no formal diagnosis) ASD which I'm waiting on a meeting for is a spectrum too? People's desire to put people in certain boxes is ultimately incredibly problematic.
As a neurodivergent girl (adhd), I can understand wanting to have caracters that are clear members of a comunity/demographic, but a caracter who have traits from this comunity/demographic is still a good thing and help people from this comunity/demographic relate to the caracter. Also realisticly, neurodivergent girls get diagnose a lot more latter in life (at least for adhd and autism), so it makes sense for a teenage girl to have neurodivergent traits, but no diagnostic.
@@tylerpattenden4593 I don't really know the statistics for trans and nonbinary people about neurodivergent diagnostic, but I know the statistics for the cis women, but it wouldn't surprise me if the statistics are similar or even worse for the trans and nonbinary people
@@mariane5564 I'm queer, neurodivergent, bipolar, non binary and then on top of that I am Romani so basically I will receive abuse from homophobic people, transphobic people, misogynists and racists too
It crosses mediums too, the visual model for a character from The Last of Us two was bullied off've social media and sent THOUSANDS of death threats because people hated her character so much, I think she's back online now but damn
@@sp0ngeb00b7 I don't know the whole story behind this, but I have to assume that you're talking about Abby because the harassment that anyone remotely tied to her character received was horrifying
This trend of thinking actors make their characters instead of the actual writers is very annoying whatever context it's in. Like how people say Johnny Depp made potc; no, Elliot and Russio did
we are in the post modern era of cinema and tv and that is marked by the interaction with the masses. It's the era of memes, fanfics, sequels, remakes, more references to pop culture than you could think of. Because of this, which clearly got a rise with social media, these para social relationship that audiences have with the actors portraying the character they love is getting out of hand. A product that does not get a following, fans, fan art, fanfics, is prone to die quicker. We are in the era of caring more about characters than stories, which is the biggest difference between tv and cinema imo, also the reason these 8 episode season style is so popular rn, it's the quality of a movie with enough time to bond with the characters. And that's the thing, our mind doesn't understand what's real and what's not and we wish to meet these characters, and PR or whatever encourages the actors to interact because they know there's the goldmine to keep the product alive. And social media help us make that dream come true, the dream of getting to know more of the characters we fell in love with. We know they are actors, but seeing it this way helps me understand with it gets so out of hand for some people.
I don't think Wednesday was written to be queer, although I do wish she was written either ace/aro or pan, it would fit well with the way she usually relates to the world. Could be a nice character arc for her to go from not caring about anyone to discovering she could care for anyone who's right for her no matter the gender / would be interesting to see her discover that she's not much attracted to people but has the potential to create strong platonic bonds with them. It would also spare us having to look at her with her supposed love interests (those two guys, which is why I tink she wasn't written to be queer, at least not on purpose) whom she looks like she wants nothing to do with anyway. I believe the writers wanted to write a conflict between her, seemingly set in her ways, and relationships that challenged that, and the only one they succeeded writing close to well is the one with Enid, and this is why it feels queer. But I think it's a matter of successful writing with Enid and unsuccessful with the guys, not a matter of intentions. From what I've heard (Friendly Space Ninja mostly, but others too) the guys feel bland and Enid annoys some people, but at least Enid has a character and a character arc, and that is also one of the reasons she stands out. If the writers wanted to focus on a queer romance or the magic of friendship, I think they should have left the guys out, at least as love interests, and made them friends only, or made very clear Wednesday was just using them to get away from town / to help with her investigation (which is totally what was happening anyway). If they wanted to succeed with the straight romance though, they should have gone all the way and created a weirder male character to accompany Wednesday (weird in a different but complimentary way to Wednesday's weirdness). And no, being a homicidal monster doesn't count. Pink-loving werewolf is more like it. And this is a larger issue with characters in the series; Wednesday didn't feel toned down (thank god), but considering this is supposed to be a school for dark weird kids, the other students around her were way too normal.
when you become the internet’s new it girl/boy, I feel like you become less humanised and more criticised after a while, I hope Jenna has a strong support system and people that actually care about her in her corner. She’s an incredible actress and she deserves the best.
To me I’m annoyed with people who used to bully/dislike alt, nd people liking Wednesday or eddie this much mainly because they wouldn’t like these characters if they weren’t played by pretty actors
For me, the reason I related to Eddie and the Addams family from the 90s, is that when I was young, a long time ago, I was this little goth kid, and the Addams Family was something I could always relate to. The same with Tim Burton, I loved him and it always felt so relatable. And same with Eddie, he reminded me so much of myself. I always had a lot of friends, but always felt very alone in it anyway in a way where I also was this kinda loner who kinda just hated being around being, while still having friends. For me I loved both because I related to them. I don’t relate to Wednesday or the family in the new show, but I relate to the Addams Family from the 90s movies and 90s animated show. With Eddie is most when I became a tiny bit of an older teen because at that point I was more of a rocker/grunge girl, with pretty much the same attitude. I remember peoples parents being scared my “weirdness” would “rub off” on their kids. And I heated the things about how I was a satanic kid etc.
Can I just say, that since Lindsey Ellis has left youtube I’ve been steady trying to find someone to fill that void, and I think your channel and content may be it, thank you ❤
finally someone makes a video about this! well said and i feel like this cycle of loving something then hating it or thinking it’s “cringe” always happens when a new series gets released even outside of netflix
People really take stuff way too far, and honestly "queer baiting" is one of the most annoying terms ever... Especially when it comes to acting. The whole "you're queer baiting because your character is gay and you're not".... Like, do people realize that A) you cant prove your sexuality in an audition... Nasty... B) Gay people get straight roles as well and some would rather not be typecast or don't wanna go public with their sexuality C) it's called acting because you're not supposed to be yourself but a character so those character's psychological differences must reflect on the actor, sexuality included. Of course this is much different with trans people as the representation of trans is important as a whole, it's psychological and physical. But being gay simply isn't everything about someone's life, or as present as being trans or being of a particular race. (This is a whole other discourse) Yes some shows queer baited, (looking at you OUaT) but it started innocently from the writer's end, it's just the two leads had way too much chemistry, fans shipped, and they started abusing the will they won't they narrative. (To the point they're sharing a kid, pretty much living together and educating him as a couple, while both are in straight relationships... Eeeesh) and I see the wrong in that. Wednesday doesn't really have downright queer behavior, we're projecting onto it. Do I think her and Enid have more chemistry than any of the two "love interests? Yes. But that's because truth be told, their relationship is the only one that's really fleshed out and explored, and totally works in a friendship context. Now please, don't start with accusations or obsessing over real people... It's creepy and unhealthy. I too loved Jenna Ortega in this role, but separate admiration from obsession, she's around my age and I'd die getting all this attention tbh
im a metalhead and also have a huge appreciation towards goth music and culture, i hate to see when it gets capitalized off of and sold to a general audience and appropriated, i watched Wednesday and have the same general opinion as your parents, but i wish it didnt try so hard to appeal to the masses and more so stuck to its subculture. i still like the characters of Eddie Munson and Wednesday Addams, but i hate when the fans act like this and make it impossible to even like the show without it being called cringe
Wednesday was one of the few I could see myself in growing up, and although I kind of wanted to see more of her philosophy as a character, I enjoyed and felt my inner-child having a sense of Justice for presenting my favorite icon. She’s unapologetic about being: knowledgeable, wearing black in any condition, doesn’t prioritize niche standards, having her own personal heroism that goes against the collectives, enjoys her own solitude, dances the way she wants too, and pursues Justice for those who deserve to be heard or have done no harm. When I see these “normies” cosplaying as her or misinterpreting her character as an edgy one with no personality, I can’t help but feel a sting to the heart. And then others ship her and Enid (I have no problem) but then there’s “those” shippers who’ll try to insinuate Jenna to come out with the sexuality they fantasize to make the ship seem more cannon. I honestly just learned to enjoy things without interacting with any mainstream fandom. Maybe I might make a fic from here to there, but it’s annoying when others boil characters down into these “quirks” but don’t want anything to do with those quirks in actuality. Trends really do come and go
I was literally Eddie in school and out of school and it sure didn’t get me treated kindly. People are usually more nice and understanding as adults compared to when I was younger, mostly because I’ve discovered online communities of metalheads, goths, horror fans, readers, etc.
Been watching a lot of review and analysis videos involving Wednesday and so many people claiming to not be familiar with the Addams family franchise. I’m not even that old but now I’m questioning if I really am xD.
Honestly I have no idea how some people didn't even know a little about the Addams family until now. I've barely interacted with the franchise but I could easily recognize each family member at a glance, they're just that iconic. Plus Thing is referenced in like everything ever and there's always talk online about how healthy of a family they are. I dunno.
"The Eddie Munsofication of Wednesday Addams" is quite literally the most iconic opening line to a RUclips video I've ever heard 🗿🗿💀💀😭😭 I will now be occasionally rewatching this video just to hear it if I ever need to randomly smile 😭😭😭
The main thing I got from this video is I’m so jealous of your relationship with your parents and it’s quite obvious how you’ve become so wholesome and introspective and I just love your channel and I’m so happy that you get to have such a lovely dynamic with them like this is what it must look like to not have abusive parents and it’s just so sweet and endearing that I literally can’t even
I support/ship Wenclair but I'd never force that on Jenna and Emma, they are actors not the actual character. Even if they're both straight that doesn't mean Wenclair can't happen because actors are not necessarily their characters and nobody should be pressuring Jenna into revealing her sexuality because it doesn't matter
Mood : Me, a 32 yo who s been listening to heavy metal for 20 years , explaining to younger people for the 100th time that I am not doing an Eddy Munson genderswap cosplay just because I like the Hellfire club shirt, it s just how I dress 😂
I guess the thing is bullies identify so deeply and unintelligibly with the other they hate in real life. to the extent that when it's depicted in a TV series and they are silently watching and having a chance to reflect without proving anything to anyone, they just become fanatical towards the bullyable one.
I never understood why Eddie was so loved. I mean I get it, he was really an innocent teen. But he had no character development besides "look at me, I play DnD" 🤷♂️
I still can't believe they made a WHOLE ASS THREAD about how "Eddie Munson is queer coded" only for the creator to come out and say no, he isn't. Only for that thread to be buried and ignored by the fans
I think that the idea of focusing on Wednesday's romantic relationships at all is weird. The idea of Wednesday Addams having a love interest baffles me and while the Enid shipping is pretty cute, I just can't see it. This could be biased, coming from an ace person, but I just think Wednesday has got more important things to get on with and I like her not having any romantic interest.
As someone who indentifies with characters like this the simping makes me cringe, Wednesday is strange even compared to the rest of her family and has all the marks of a neurodivergent introvert that has more going for her than just being quirky but that's all gen z TikTokers see, if she or Eddie from Stranger Things were real they'd be bullied asf they wouldn't have this strange fan following everyone would bully them
It’s really sad that great series like ST and Wednesday have such terrible people inside the fandom, because of this many people immediately cross out the WHOLE fandom
Honestly, as someone who's alt and as someone who never fit in as a kid, I have no problem with Eddie or Wednesday being popular. My issue lies in who's praising them. I loved Eddie and Wednesday, but half the people praising them are people who wouldn't have been seen with me in high school (or even now, for that matter) cause I'm too weird. I have no problem with them being popular, but dear God before you post about your love for Wednesday or Eddie, think about how you treated Wednesday and Eddie when you were in high school. Half the people I've seen wearing "Hellfire Club" tshirts bullied (or at least, completely ignored) the RPG club at my high school. It's not fun, it's not cute. There's nothing wrong with liking Wednesday, or Eddie, or anyone else who's "quirky uwu", but please, as the "weird kid", think about how you treat / treated the weird kids in your life before posting your dance, or your hellfire club tshirt, or your love for them. Cause as the weird emo kid, it FUCKING HURTS to see people who wouldn't dare be seen with me in public, either now or in high school, post about how awesome Wednesday and Eddie are cause they're ✨️alt and quirky and just don't care what people think✨️. Don't love the queer and / or alt character if you don't love the queer and / or alt people in your life
I totally did not expect this to be how society views certain characters, and the effect that has on the actors. But, this is so accurate and spot on i love it!
Your parents are adorable! I loved the little snippet at the end of the video, where your mum was making sure that your room was clean, such a pure soul, haha
What I think is interesting is that most people I personally saw really loving these characters were neurodivergent queer people who didn't always have a place to belong so there's definitely nuance here. (I think projecting onto FICTIONAL CHARACTERS is totally fine, doing that for actors isn't so much) You're right, it's odd how people are so quick to call everyone cringe who likes a thing a lot especially if they're young women or queer people
As a long time Adam's Family fan I am still incredibly confused how the hell Wednesday Addams could be put in a school for weird people and still be the outcast as is she was put in a normal school. I think the show would be way more interesting and fascinating if the plot was that she was put into a school of weirdos and that no matter how weird she acted she was still very lovingly accepted by her peers the same way her family is accepted of her but they're not her family and how that's so foreign and uncomfortable to her because it's not what she's used to aka the endless Adams Family punchline which is the whole point of those characters. Watching a character who's entire existence up to this point has been about trying to survive in a world that doesn't accept you and the shocking realization growing pains and acceptance of finally finding a group of people who accept you I think would have been more fascinating and a very powerful and very relevant message to gen Z instead of people doing a tick tock dance based to a song that's not even in the actual episode.
Eddie Munson wasn’t even overused in my opinion 💀 Robin was the one who seemed to just be quirky for the sake of it and she completely changed into that from a pretty cool character into someone who felt like she was mainly there to create reactions and not for story or a cool character.
People on the internet be weird but I doubt the vast majority of regular people think these things, it’s just an internet subgroup that gets a lot of attention put on them, you can enjoy a series you like even if you don’t like the community you’re allowed to like dhit
I have a friend that’s had their battle jacket called an eddie Munson jacket, and I’m pretty sure I never noticed anyone else at my school wear a battle jacket until after eddie Munson. Idk I genuinely hate how tiktok will just treat being alt like a trend and it defeats the whole point of being alt and just takes some of my passion away from it
I love your parents. They made me laugh a lot, especially the end. And I agree with everything they said about the shows over the years. Good video- thank you!
As a metalhead, I think the reason Eddie got popular is cuz he's goodlooking. In real life most metalhead dudes I've met are mostly old, fat, or look normal. And I wonder what would've happened if Eddie was played by a guy that looked average or ugly. I've also noticed that Master of Puppets got really popular because of the show, Netflix technically made a smart choice using a Metallica song because they're are the biggest metal band in the world and just a band that's really easy to get into. If they chose a smaller underrated thrash metal band they probably would've also got really popular but a majority of people that are not metalheads probably hasn't heard of em at all. I've noticed a lot of people at my school listen to Metallica, that's cool n all but it's weird to me honestly, Metallica was my first band and they made me explore more metal bands and more subgenres. Wednesday also popularized a song by The Cramps. I wonder what happens if Netflix uses a song like Volcanic Slut by Sodom 🤣
As a goth/punk/alternative person I really really really feel uncomfortable with this shit because it feels like a big part of my identity is being cheaply imitated and capitalised on to audiences who don't understand it, never had any other interaction with, will now use as a reference for it, and will totally bastardise their understanding of our identity I swear to god having someone come up to me and tell me "oh your outfit, you're dressed like Wednesday!! I love that show, it's such a cool aesthetic (: " is somehow worse than when they used to just shout insults and laugh at me
Believe it or not the "Eddie Munson Cycle" happened with Trevor from Grand theft auto V... somehow. I distinctly remember seeing a fanfiction on tumblr of "Coming out as nonbinary to Trevor Philips" and thinking just "wow, none of these people have even played the game".
Oh, as a bisexual autistic goth, school was torment. Everyday. Eventually I wanted to do something drastic just to end it. And now it's my 22nd birthday.
Yes,let people like things until there is a "bar". I have been assulted and spit on whole my life, for someone to say to me in a tram " You Stranger things fans are way out of proportions,why would you cosplay Eddie on a regular day?" .I like Eddie.I love Joseph Quinn. What I do not love is being stomped on my whole life for being a metalhead and then being told that Im cosplaying a character because I have hightops and a battle jacket. I have went to a lot of goth parties,I have seen so much of us being bullied since I was a child.Shows like this give you hope that It will be better,but in the end you just see trends and you are getting classified as a crazy fan of a show.But that is life for you. Go confuse people with uggs and a Dio shirt
This is why I stay away from groups even if I enjoy the same things they do. It can be draining with all the arguments , ships, and people just picking apart the tiniest bits of information just so they can project. It’s fine if you relate with someone, I can definitely say I have, but that doesn’t mean they’re you
Oh another thought Wednesday fans should keep in mind. Most producers and writers will not cast people who are in a relationship as playing characters who are in a relationship. So if Emma and Jenna did hook up irl. It would probably kill the WedClaire ship dead in the water. Let the girls keep their private lives private, for the sake of the ship !
What is the necessity for any character to be a part of any spectrum ? The show or the characters. Its not real ! That's a pill most fandoms cant swallow .
That’s not the point though. Actual ND people are recognising themselves in characters and there are definitely characters that are autistic coded without ever stated to actually be.
Cursing is f%*^ing awesome!! I grew up with the “campy” B&W tv show and will always consider it the gold standard (although Tim Curry as Gomez… omg 🥰). I would agree with your parents about the content being darker than what was common on tv at the time, but honestly for those of us who lived for Dark Shadows (who ran home from school every afternoon to catch the latest installment?? 🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️), The Addams Family tv series was a safer way to get a dose of Darkness that our parents wouldn’t mind as much. Love your channel so much!!
I miss when ppl weren't obsessed with a character's sexuality. It often has nothing to do with the character or plot as a whole. Just ppl wanting to go "YEA THAT CHARACTER IS ON MY TEAM"
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello! If you like watching me roast Netflix, I think you'll like my brand new video of me roasting HBO Max. Check it out here!
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hey ik this you channel but i dont want you to get hate but i think the 4:53 “standard gay shit” im not you tube i love your content and i loved this video i hope your day is treating you well!!!!
what
@@tonyleidyiii1652 i hope he doesnt, cant deal with another wave of eddie stans
8:06 That is the dumbest shit i have ever heard...I mean that kind of hug between Friends happened in hundreds of shows or films.
Good god shut up with your Bullshit. This scene was completly fine but you weirdos make something out of it that isn't there
Hey um, I'm autistic and have major sensory issues so I just wanted to leave a little feedback about the dings used at the 6:00 mark. They're _really_ sharp and actually cause me physical pain when I hear them, and they're also really loud compared to your voice. I don't want to tell you how to create your own art, but I really like your channel and was hoping for future videos you might be able to tone down the loud, sharp noises?
Sorry if this seems entitled, I'll watch either way, I'd just prefer not to feel actual pain as a result 😅
I find it hilarious that the character of Wednesday would probably be disgusted by The type of people who are fangirling over her.
or trying to be her 💀
Patrick Bateman all over again
@@Traveler_202 the character of Patrick Bateman probably wouldn't mind being idolized
She'd see that one quiz about her that asked to pick a song from blackpink and would go get her piranhas again
@@PopPopPopPop Bro Did you actually watch the ending of the movie or just the sigma memes lol. He knows he's broken and wouldn't want anyone to idolise him.
as a goth and a metalhead it’s so weird seeing people love these characters and then bully people that are like them in real life
Same! I also see the obsession and also hate. I saw a Tiktok trend of people bashing alternative people and saying if their kid dressed like that, they’d disown them and other horrible things. As a goth, the subculture is music-based and is full of creative and expressive people. It’s irritating and sad that normies treat it like a trend.
because its a character not a real person noone would like either of these characters if they were real people
@@Ionreallysleep so you just said bullying someone for their style is okay?
@@dibujos._.infinitos3436 yes bullying builds character and helps people grow going through life without obstacles when your young leads to people who think the world revolves around them "karens" and people who just expect everything to be easy when it really isn't facing the harsh reality at a younger age helps you develop and understand it better
@@Ionreallysleep What the actual heck
jenna ortega is having her sexuality debated right now, so it seems like people didn’t learn anything from the heartstopper fiasco
sorry but what heartstopper fiasco?
@@bigburritolover Apparently, one of the actors on Heartstopper was accused of queerbaiting because he was seen holding hands with a female co-star. Even though he has stated in interviews that he did not want to publicly reveal his sexuality, the backlash and harassment was so bad that he had no other choice but to come out as bisexual on Twitter
@@lexxi_arvill8769 wtf?????? that's fucking horrible
@@lexxi_arvill8769 But has anybody thought these actors might silently benefit from these "sexuality fiascos", I mean who was actually there to confirm coming out as bisexual on Twitter was such a terrible thing for him? The heartstopper actor was supposedly taking a break from social media because how suffocating the whole issue was, but i'm afraid that in less than two weeks after he was already back posting photos of his biceps or something, so, was it really that bad? He got even more popular by saying he was bisexual and the fans got exactly what they wanted to hear from him.
Online harrassment is wrong, but if You are in the public eye, you still have the choice to remain silent, you know, the "forced coming out fiasco" is a white lie rooted in trading victimhood for sympathy.
And I bet if Jenna Ortega finally said she was lesbian or bisexual, her fans would be secretly happy while cursing the system on the surface because oh lord, who doesn't love pretty and funny celebrities who are also gay or at least half one? That is the modern formula for worldwide fame!
@@фвы-к4э Kit connor literally deleted his Twitter afterwards what are you on about.
My main thing with this ciclye of quirck character getting hyper famous and then getting cringe is that, at the end of the day it may seem that people are liking the weirdness and the quirckness but in reality it just comes off as parody and bullying, and of course, capitalizing. As a person who was called the "weird kid of the class", seeing the way people react to these characters with an imense romantization or a imense hate just shows that people really don't like weird and alternative persons, they just like the idea of it and the selling of it, because in reality being eddie or even wednesday is actually pretty lonely and sad and just results in a lot of trauma.
thats the thing!! they like the idea of having wednesday as a friend or eddie as a boyfriend, but would they still have the same attitude towards them a month into them being friends/a couple, with their quirky little antics displayed in full throttle??
yeah, especially with wednesday. she's not even really alternative, they've just dressed her in black versions of current popular fashion, at most some tiktok alt that's gonna be out of style in 2 years and that we're all gonna cringe at.
That last line you said is so true, hit close to home.
And then the people who still genuinely like and relate to Wednesday or Eddie after it’s “popular” get bullied bc they’re “weird” characters and “it’s cringey if you relate to them”
Tbh I related to Eddie and Wednesday and I always will and if that makes me cringe to you...that really has nothing to do with me now dose it. 🙃
The way altness has been capitalized is both ironically funny and deeply upsetting to me
As an older gen z metalhead…… completely agree
yeah it's weird. and i understand when alt people are bothered by it. not because you're only allowed to like them when you're alt, but because we all know that the people who pretend to love them now were absolutely vile to anyone who wasn't a glammed up hollywood version of them.
Fr also I love ur pfp
Happens all the time. It'll pass - both the trend, and the uneasiness 🙏🏾
@@Setsunako6587 giving me hope 🙏
As someone who literally had stones thrown at her for being the 'weirdo' in school I can't help but be salty seeing people wear alt style as a costume for tiktok views.
I have to agree. I was the painfully silent type as a teen that wore black and chains and safety pins and the only thing I was known for was saying “why don’t we blow them up?” Which was taken hugely out of context from a classroom debate.
I was accused in an English lesson about gothic literature of listening to a band that ate babies (Not true would like to clarify not even sure where they heard that from)
It’s nice that teens now seem to be embracing that sort of thing? But I don’t trust that kids aren’t still getting bullied over real life versions of the content that everyone’s fawning over.
I think we kind of have a right to be salty. Not to get too unnecessarily personal but I had a pretty hard time at home with a criminal alcoholic for a father and I suffered mentally for it. I had kids make fun of me while I had panic attacks and nervous breakdowns. I had teachers treat me badly for not reacting well to having to read books with horrendously abusive content to the characters. I’m only in my 20s. I doubt the last 5+ years have created such a difference that teens who are the way I was aren’t still suffering at the behaviour of others while on social media their traits are being sold as desirable and the next greatest trend. People are literally profiting off of the things they have to suffer through. That definitely feels like the sort of thing you should be allowed to be outright furious over.
@@hollyro4665 TV is not real life and everything in moderation. Character traits that may be fun to watch on TV for an hour, may be incredibly annoying in real life and too much exposure. Some character traits are fun to watch precisely because they are annoying to the other characters and it is funny to watch, say, the Big Bang Theory and the group deal with Sheldon's antics. It would not be as funny if I was the one who had to deal with him though.
@@Pentium100MHz It sounds like you're insinuating that people should be bullied if they're too weird and annoying by your standards in real life. I hope that's not the case. As another already mentioned, it's not something people can turn on or off in real life, neither should they be bullied for it.
@@Pentium100MHz I actually agree with that. But then I still think it’s crappy to profit from and glamorise those traits.
@@-SuperCraigIsGay- Please do not put words in my mouth. Otherwise, can you show which part of my post justifies abuse?
If someone is annoying in real life, I can just not associate with that person. I don't think I would be able to be friends with Sheldon for multiple reasons, but that does not mean I should just beat him up. Just walking away is easier (unless he would constantly harass me I guess) and it's not like beating him up would change anything (other than get me in trouble with the law).
What’s baffling to me is I went to school with kids exactly like Eddie and the same kids who bullied them post about how they love stranger things and the kids who are considered weird and outcasts are their favorite characters. I just sit there like oh really?? Because I can think of specific incidences of you bullying someone in school who acted exactly like Eddie. These same bullies also wear the hellfire club merch which is essentially the losers club while they called the table I sat at with my friends the loser table and it’s like.. if these weren’t actors in a show you actually wouldn’t like these people at all lol. I think there’s something about knowing that it’s an actor behind the screen and seeing Mike or Eddie do nerdy things is quirky and cute because at the end of the day it’s Finn Wolfhard and Joseph Quinn. There’s still a coolness factor surrounding the characters when you remember the actors and they are also main characters so you’re supposed to enjoy and root for them. I just wished this sudden new love of weirdos and outcasts transferred over to real life but sadly I don’t think it will
This!!!
As someone who's been the weird kid this is so true 😐
id also like to add how watching anime suddenly became cool after the pandemic. before you'd get bullied and called an incel but now it's quirky and you HAVE to have watched kakegurui or JJK, etc. it's absurd
@@k-onenthusiast5234 eh, anime became more mainstream even before the pandemic. at least in my country back when i was in high school 10 year ago, anime was already pretty popular and you weren't necessarily considered weird for watching them
@@666FallenShadow it could depend on place, all the places ive been to and all the people i know said they used to get made fun of for it or people wouldn't talk to them because of it
"Normies" don't actually actually like quirkiness or altness or neurodivergency, they just like the concept to wear as a costume.
I was bullied for dancing like Wednesday (unhinged) and now everyone is doing it and failing because they're not unhinged enough lmao.
Yeah, like I saw a tweet saying something like 'you all love autistic traits on fictional characters but when it's a real autistic person you say they're "annoying"
Honestly I just wish allistics/neurotypicals would shut up for once
Exactly they would all look at Wednesday in a certain way. While here I am dancing at a dance just getting stared at with such negative eyes.
Holy shit yes!! They love the idea of some of these alt characters in their entertainment but they'd probably bully them in real life. It's pretty sad
Cause you guys aren't normal, we make fun of outliers, we like power and distaste everyone who's weird
@@estellelias Why are you saying "make fun of outliers" and "distaste everyone who's weird" like that's a good thing?
Honestly it’s annoying to me that a healthy amazing friendship gets called “queerbaiting” etc. People can be friends! Friends can be close! I know a lot of smaller streamers who get shipped with their close friends a lot and this gives same vibe. It’s like the internet just forgot about the concept of friendship.
Also to clarify a bit: it’s okay to like a ship, if you ship them cool! But when you either bring real people into it or cause discourse over your ship being “canon” to other shippers or peop,e in the fandom. Or if your ship ending up not being canon in the end and you hate on the show and it’s crew.
yes, i completely agree. once i was telling someone that they can ship whatever they like and they can see the character as whatever they want but not to force it onto others. what did they respond? "if you see those interactions as platonic, you're just being ignorant" i swear having friends doesn't exist anymore, one day family is gonna disappear too
The aromantic and omnisexual parts of me both desperate for representation are constantly battling to decide if i ship something or are they just friends
this hasnt much to do w the point, but i just want to rant for a bit about adaptations, friendships and queerbaiting and the tv adaptation of hill house
i get that friendships, familial relationships, female relationships in general are great, but sometimes i feel kind of disappointed when adaptations get rid of sth that i thought was kinda gay. like when they made eleanor and theo sisters in the tv adaptation of hill house. i liked that, in the book, only female characters had magic, and it was concurrently exploited and ridiculed by the male characters.
in the show, everyone encountered supernatural events, and it ignored commentary i found interesting. i get that the creators didnt agree w my interpretation and thats completely ok, but it's kind of disappointing when adaptations ignore ur favourite parts of a book. it feels like you just aren't on the same page, and you werent engaging w the same book, you know?
i read the ending of hill house, and i thought, well that's a happy ending. she's found a place where she belongs. shirley jackson wanted to board herself up in her home and never see another human being, and that's incredibly relatable of her. she only ever wrote about people who boarded themselves up in their homes and she hated socializing w the ppl in her small town, the idea of becoming one w your home and never leaving obviously had a draw for her. it just felt like male extroverts were adapting a female introvert's book. (wait until you hear my views on hitchcock's rebecca lmao)
actually could i. i really disliked how hitchcock demonized mrs danvers and made her the creepy lesbian predating on the heterosexual female protagonist, when danny obv had eyes for nobody but rebecca (i know, it's just my interpretation, but the predatory lesbian trope really wasn't necessary). was danny gay? i have no idea, but du maurier did base rebecca off her publisher's wife, whom she admired a great deal. (and her husband's ex-wife, who she felt inferior to, but that's besides the point) du maurier also did say some debatably queer stuff.
i just hate it when male directors get their grubby little hands on books written by women. (or maybe i just hate screen adaptations of books about debatably gay women who want to own a house. in today's economy? never)
@@4kiyotsu.0 People like that who are ADAMANT that their headcanons are canon, need to understand that, when it comes to that point, they. are. reading. way. too. far. into. a. tv. show. I get that “Representation” is an important thing. To have that feeling that you as an individual are not alone in this world, it can be comforting.
However,this is not “Representation” at all, this is “Projection”. They are seeing what they want to see, and labeling everything else that is not a part of their vision as “surface level” or “incorrect” etc, proves this. It’s sh*t like this that causes actors like Kit Connor to feel pressured to come out not by their own terms.
@@Pierre371 However,this is not “Representation” at all, this is “Projection”. yup i literally talked to a few people who said the show was queer baiting, one of them was a lesbian and surprise she said wednesday was obviously a lesbian and enid was obviously a lesbian because of her wardrobe, another person was aroace and said Wednesday was aroace 🤷♀
It does kind of suck how a lot of the time, if a character/person somehow deviates from the norm or doesn't completely fit the stereotype for their gender, people either automatically assume they're gay and/or get mad at the idea of them not being gay.
As a grungy tomboy who wears a lot of unisex types of clothes and has some typical "masculine" personality traits, I'm still attracted to dudes and have been in a legit hetero relationship. Your style/appearance and whatnot doesn't mean you have to fall into a certain group
Gay woman here. I loved the show and i like to read fanfictions (to fill the void after the show ends) but i also don’t see the obsession of some people to see the character as gay or whatnot. I liked the show for its mystery and humour and that’s it. Not everyone who doesn’t fit needs to be gay. Especially Wednesday, she has no deeper emotions 95% of the time except negative ones and that’s the charm of her character. Just see the show as what it is, not as what you want it to be
@@god3485 Yep. There's also this thing in certain fanbases where, if the most popular ship is a gay one, there are people who will call you a homophobe if you don't ship it. Even more so if you like a hetero ship featuring one of those characters. It happens even with bi/pan characters, or those whose orientations just never come up in the story. It's some crazy stuff
This actually, it's a huge problem with fandoms and more specifically the LGBT parts of them
@@Rey_Palpatine lmao i once was called homophobic for shipping two characters that were gay in the show in a straight ship. If i can ship straight characters in a gay relationship, i can ship gay characters in a straight relationship. Not that deep
@Ankitha Mahesh then that’s bad writing. Which is sadly true for many characters bcs they are used as bait. Characters that are written to feel real arent like that. Like normal humans. I am gay but that is only a small, unimportant for my personality, part. The journey to realise your attraction might be a nice point in the show but characters should be beyond their sexuality. For example, Cosima in Orphan Black (and Delphine for discovering herself) or Toni and Shelby in The Wilds. They are nicely written. While shows like Riverdale just made a character gay and based the whole plot around that just because people liked a ship
wednesday is not a netflix character tho. she has been a much more iconic and famous character over the years, and is the main character. meanwhile eddie is a side character so his popularity didn’t make sense as much as wednesday did.
also wednesday was not jenna’s breakout role. she played the main character on stuck in the middle, she was in x, scream, american carnage, and the fallout. she had 10 million followers before wednesday was even out.
Thank you, I was so confused by her saying Jenna was a relatively unknown actor as if she hasn't been in some of the best horrors of recent memory and been in multiple popular shows prior to this
Wednesday in general is not a Netflix character, but _this version_ of Wednesday _is_. These tiktoks and conversations aren't about previous versions of her, they're specifically about the Netflix portrayal.
i was confused by this statement, but i suppose the creator means “breakout” as in popular to the general public. people said the same about keke palmer even though shes starred in countless projects before “nope” and was even famous in many black households (and twitter memes). and it’s true jenna hasnt been talked about as widespread as she is now so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ that’s the only explanation that makes sense to me for the creator saying that
Jenna Ortega: richie Rich, Jane the virgin, stuck in the middle, Elena of Avalor, quest started on bizzardvark(Olivia Rodrigo's disney show), you(season 2), the babysitter killer 2,yes day, the fallout,scream 5, x movie
Joseph Quinn: quest started on Game of thrones... that's it lol amin no hate to Joe ofc i love him and Eddie but like yeah Jenna has been famous long before Wednesday reboot show
She was also in "you" season 2
I grew up with both the black and white show and the movies as a youngish person. I don't like how cliche Wednesday is. I thought I wasn't going to like because of modern Tim Burtonish, but I ended up disliking it for how teensy cliche it is.
Addams Family was a satire on American culture and this is just another one of those samey cliche dark/paranormal teen shows like Sabrina, Riverdale, or many of those CW sci-fi shows.
I agree completely! From the first episode I only really watched for Wednesday and her deadpan dark humour. Which is one of the main reasons I enjoyed Addams family series and movies to begin with. And even that started to fade towards the end of the series. I’m not a teen anymore. Which cute boy gets the girl just doesn’t interest me like it used to and I’m not overly invested in teen girl friendship falling out because “you’re not giving me enough attention”. I’ve been there, done that. Maybe that just means I wasn’t the target audience?
It bothered me slightly that she wasn't as violent or "Addams" as previous depictions. Like, her hobby is writing. What about electrocuting people? Why doesn't she go out gravedigging anymore? She had to be more normal to interact with others as was needed for the show.
I still liked the show, I just like the older Addams style more I guess
@@Speederzzz Because its hard to root for someone who actively enjoys harming other.
@@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376 I think the core of the criticism is that people wish Wednesday was actually as weird as she’s supposed to be, and as she mentions herself being (like swimming with sharks and beheading dolls for fun)
No it isnt. Sephiroth killed loads of people and everyone still likes him. They just don’t want girlie to be “problematic” ☹️
I literally only see this with large mainstream fandoms. Any smaller scale fandoms that are deeper built into traditional fandom spaces like Tumblr, Ao3, etc couldn’t care less about any sort of cringe factor. But the more mainstream things get, people start acting as though there is only one way to enjoy a piece of media. Suddenly cosplaying is weird, shipping is frowned upon & any merch other than t-shirts or posters is suddenly calling someone “obsessed” or “one of THOSE fans”. It’s a weird transition of fandom spaces becoming public. Normal fandoms that are not in the mainstream have open shipping wars, and ships and cosplays and x-readers and all, but now it’s weird when a big piece of media has fans who actually ACT like fans. I saw someone say seeing edits of characters from a show on TikTok weirded them out, and that really sums up how mainstream fandom spaces work. It’s not built to be a fandom anymore.
TLDR: Normies aren’t chronically online enough to understand proper fandom etiquette
Yeah it kinda real annoying sometimes when good shows get hyperpopular because "normies" (idk just people who don't regularly engage in many fandoms) don't know how to act and ruin it. At least with Stranger Things the character I latched onto was Robin, and she doesn't seem to have a huge mainstream fanbase, it's mostly a lot of autistic lesbians like me lol. Makes it easier to enjoy.
This is why I'm glad though that I mostly watch cartoons. They have the loveliest fandoms and the communities feel so tight knit despite usually being fairly large fandoms (the owl house, she ra, amphibia, etc)
YES!!
Literally took the words right out of my mouth. I used to cosplay on tiktok until I’d get bombarded with comments calling me “cringe” or other names and it threw me in for a loop. I used to be made fun of years ago for liking anime and being a fandom kid and it was basically just that but on tiktok. It surprised me that the people bullying me were kids who were into fandoms themselves but prided on being “normal”
I'd say that fandoms are generally more open now, whether it's a smaller or bigger fandom, partially because of TikTok. I think TikTok is just like Tumblr, except it's easier to use, so you don't have to dig deep to find unusual stuff, thus it makes everything easier to go viral.
I’m so annoyed by the Wednesday character she’s the idea of what an outcast is from the perspective of someone who isn’t. She isn’t an outcast everyone in the school is in love with her or want to be her friend no matter how much of a jerk she is. It’s just frustrating. Outcasts don’t have friend they’re actually bullied and it affects them idk. It’s just annoying cause it actually sucks being an outcast. People don’t fall in love with you they don’t want to be near you because your WEIRD. It’s not accurate at all.
+1
Exactly! I find it annoying how in every series where there is a character who's supposed to be the "misfit" or "outcast" they make everyone have a crush on them or wanna be their friend. Whenever we have to do anything in groups, I always get picked as the last choice. Whenever we get to choose where we sit, no one wants to sit with me. It's "everybody thinks your weird and hates you" not "Everybody secretly is in love with you cause you're ✨Quirky✨ and ✨different✨"
Honestly I had no idea why the writers were so steadfast on giving her so many people obsessed with her (ESPECIALLY the love interests). I love the character, don't get me wrong, but I wish the writing wasn't so lazy.
I mean Wednesday isn’t a new character, and she does get bullied a lot in the show. Only a handful of people are truly friendly to her which isn’t unrealistic in my opinion. In real life depending on where you are it’s not impossible to have friends no matter what you’re like
its a school full of werewolves and shit tho....
I feel like a big problem here is that queerbating does not apply to real people in the vast majority of cases. Queerbating is more of a marketing strategy then a behavior you can show irl. Most of the time when someone is considered to be queerbating they are either in the closet like the heartstopper situation, or they just have a different way of expressing themselves, which is completely fine. The biggest example that I can think of is Damiano, the lead singer of måneskin that especially here in Italy is getting a lot of hate from people like these. Also a problem with this mentality is that it can give homophobes a platform because a homophobic argument I have seen thrown around a lot is that people are doing it for attention, and if us queer people spoon feed them example of people doing just that it becomes way easier for the hate to spread. This is talking from an Italian prospective, where we are still far from marriage equality and a bill to make our lives a little bit easier didnt pass in the senate only like a year ago, but I’m sure it’s not much better in the us
Isn't like half of Måneskin bi?
@@ambiguoussarcasm not damiano tho and hes kinda being grouped together cause hes the leader of the group
but sometimes you're marketing people, such as with actors and stars and such.
in china at least, there's even a term for it called "mai fu" where they pair lesser known actors up and get them to interact in maybe-gay ways, start a bromance, to rile the fujoshis up. it's a marketing tactic
china's still not ok w actual gay ppl, and if one of those actors actually comes out as gay, their careers probably wont go all that well, but as long as they stay in the will-they-won't-they-are-they-actually phase, they can appeal to both the homophobes and the fujoshis, and their companies profit
I'm a fan of Maneskin, but I don't really know their sexualities as it felt weird to research that, it none of my business. But I didn't know Damiano is getting hate 🥺 it's just so stupid!
I always assumed he is straight, he even has a girlfriend... why did we fight so hard for clothes to be considered gender neutral, but now as soon as a man puts earings he is blamed for queerbating? We are going nowhere..
@@cabbage-soup exactly, celebrities are often "gay for pay" and people from both sides of the political spectrum fall for it.
There's no progress, there's only profit.
I have a friend who is just like Eddie. Even kinda looks like him to the point he cosplayed him last summer. He has long hair, dresses punk, denim on denim with sparky bedazzled tiger tshirts. Okay enough looking guy. He loves weed and is an actual communist and is really into radical politics. Really open about his interests and sexuality. But is just a good guy who just cares about doing your thing. He has a whole him against the world support others mentality. Tell kids off and always says what he thinks. Really dry humor. He was so similar to Eddie to a kinda creepy level but he was bullied relentlessly for all of highschool for just generally being different and being weird. I always think about the hypocrisy with charaters apposed to real people
Srsly. At once i thought i was just being stupid and gatekeepey for being kinda mad at the popular girls for discovering Wednesday. I've known her character longer than they have, yet, it seems like a topic only the popular and cool ones can talk abt like they've known it for years. And the less popular, who prolly know more, still get side lined. Its like ppl bullying u for watching anime and now having anime inspired styles lol. I dont hate the popular girls, but i still have a feeling of slogjt anger with them
he sounds fucking awesome I'm sorry that happened to him
your friend sounds awesome
deserved communism is not a good thing if you could guess that
Lmao based. Commies should be made to cry.
They just love characters like that in media. The other day a girl I know was like "Introverted/quiet characters are so hot and misunderstood" and I was there like "Didn't you say me being quiet is annoying and mean?". They only like you on the screen, in reality people like Wednesday, Eddie & Tomioka Giyuu are outcasts.
Instead of Tomioka Giyuu I read Giygas... if you know you know
People, summarized:
"I wanna stand out and be unique and different!"
Different person: exists
People: "Ew, not like that"
Real
Especially orientation of people who like the opposite sex and still want to express there creativity through music art and clothes but be bashed and called names for it, absolutely gross for the people who want equality for everyone aaa
they idealize characters like wednesday and eddie but grow hostile when real people, predominately neurodivergent people, engage with these characters as well, characters who are like THEM. they can't idealize real people and resort to making fun of them for being 'cringe' and 'weird'.
because being like wednesday isnt a good thing shes literally homicidal
@@Ionreallysleep
you don’t have to be purposefully dense as a means to prove me wrong. obviously I’m not talking about wednesday being homicidal, this is clearly about how she socializes with others, how she dresses, how she expresses herself, etc. she’s a goth who has difficulty expressing and understanding her emotions, which is something plenty of people, especially ND people can empathize with. they’re often perceived as weird or unappealing by society’s standards in the real world. that’s my point.
@@kashe7285 wednesday is a character not a person though people who act like her are seen as annoying because acting like someone your not is annoying and its not normal to have that level of obsession over a character
@@Ionreallysleep there’s nothing wrong with imitating a fictional character that you like… you guys must hate fun 🙄
@@Las645 I mean, when that imitation totally defines your approach to relationships with other people and basic manners, it definitely it's a problem.
What I dislike about SOME of the fans ( mainly on Twitter ) is the fact that they are deciding and guessing jenna’s sexuality SO SO much and are so concerned wether a 20 year old woman is lesbian or straight….like cmon now Wednesday is understandable because that’s a fictional character n all, but jenna herself ?? she isnt an anime character bruh, that’s a REAL person. They gotta stop claiming jenna as something we don’t even know she is 🧍🏽♀️
It's Twitter, what do you expect
Treating real people like fictional characters is scarily common at this point
It's annoying how they bought lgbtq into a show were lgbtq isnt related at all.
@@phantom-X2086 I expect better considering the fact Twitter is mainly 16 year olds and adults ☠️
@@suvvaelol7812 True, but Twitter is just toxic in general
Can we stop automatically assuming a sexuality of a character, pressuring the writing team to announce them as queer, or insulting them if they’re sexuality isn’t announced. I understand that the audience sees a character that diverts from the “norm” and they identify with them as their sexuality or identity, but the character can exist without defining these characteristics. Wednesday’s sexuality wasn’t really defined before. She had some male romantic interests, but she never seemed too interested in them. She could be asexual or just socially awkward where her sexuality hasn’t been fully explored. There’s more than gay and straight, so in the instance of the Heartstopper actor, wtf is wrong with being bi? so can ppl stfu about pressuring ppl to reveal their sexuality to feel validated in theirs. Representation in media is great, but forcing people to out themselves or face reputation demise is fucked or even needing to define the “out of the norm” behavior as queer when it may not be. These pressures have a really narrow view on sexuality, identity, the fluidity of femininity and masculinity, and queerness.
I think fans just project their own identity on a character therefore the actor of who they want them to be versus who the character/actor is
I totally agree, I really do not know why people make sexuality of characters such a big deal, nowadays I see quite a lot of LGBTQ representation on Netflix and also there was one in the Wednesday show (moms of the boy who was in the coma), I really do not think the sexuality of characters has to be highlighted every single time
I am not disagreeing with your points, but I do find the phrase "Can we stop automatically assuming a sexuality of a character" (in regards to people assuming a character is queer) ironic and kinda funny. Just bc characters are usually automatically assumed to be straight. But yes, I agree forcing people to out themselves is very much wrong - Rowan Ellis has very recently made a good video on that subject, I would recommend it.
@@crayonsmmmm3509 I understand that many assume characters to be straight unless they depict behaviors of socially agreed queerness or are different that what is socially agreed as straightness, but what I meant by the assumption of the sexuality of the characters being bad is the pressuring of the cast, narrative, and writers to conform to that. Everyone can self insert themselves and their views, but when people want to overwrite what is already put down or put forward as their perception being the only truth to the character is quite insulting and toxic. A character can just exist without needing to represent any group, or by representing them all by not being truly defined in that way.
@@crayonsmmmm3509 it’s meant more of how people really force it. You do have a point saying that poeple will assume the character is straight, but most people won’t really fight about it. But the way they force directors or actors to say their sexuality is so messed up.
The only things anyone should be saying about Jenna is how phenomenal she did in the role and how incredibly impressive it is that she learned some German and cello and put A TON of research into a dance that she shouldn't have needed to choreograph (unless that's something she WANTED to do, I don't know).
As an “old person” I adored your parents. They were absolutely fabulous in the video!
I have been watching more one off movies lately and because of that i often felt a bit lonely cos those movies usually dont have a fandom or the fandom is mostly inactive. But seeing what could happen to a popular character makes me rethink that and be glad for every small/ halfdead fandom that im in.
Because what is hapening around Wednesday just makes me cringe or feel seconhand emberesment. The Wednesday fandom mostly consists of two kinds of people: VERY talented artists and “im fourteen and this is deep” tik tok edgy kids
my favorite is joining older fandoms that used to be big. a lot of fanworks out there to enjoy but any possible discourse or drama is long gone lol
I'm in the black lagoon fandom and I feel the loneliness
What about the "she's literally me" kids haha
@@onelius Like exploring the ruins of a once glorious place, now fallen to ruin.
Also every popular fandom, especially those with a younger audience, has their share of cringe. It happens. I find the new Wednesday show too toothless and teen-oriented for my tastes, but if someone enjoys it then more power to them.
im here still simping for promare characters...
There’s a certain degree of “let people like thing” when it comes to labelling things young women, queer folk and nd people enjoy but also “just because that person is in the public eye does not mean they owe you anything” because no Jenna Ortega doesn’t need to tell you anything about her sexuality she doesn’t need to confirm Wednesday and Enid for next season as girlfriends. Joesph Quinn doesn’t need to tell you where he lives to the point that he was doxxed and his information put online for anyone to see. Enjoy the show, enjoy the character, relate to them, make your content but keep in mind that the actors in the production are real people with feelings. Also yeah the alt thing does kinda sting but what can you do? If it’s gonna make a company money they’re gonna capitalise on whatever subculture or genre they can
I've never liked that whole let people like thing in some cases.
like cmon ladies/queer folks/POCs, raise your standards, and tell the studio's you want better stuff than this.
The thing is, it isn’t actual neurodiverse people. it’s usually either fakers seeking attention, or dumb teenagers virtue signaling.
I can’t speak for lqbtq people but I can say the neurodiverse community is incredibly non toxic.
Honestly, it's just irritating sometimes.
All the popular kids at my school right now who absolutely were terrible to me are now dressing like how I dress and acting how I act because it's cool and quirky to be like Wednesday.
I absolutely love Wednesday, one of my hyperfixations right now, but how it's suddenly become "cool" to act how Wednesday does, what I got pestered for for years is now commonly accepted. I like to see that, but that doesn't erase the fact that the people now doing it to be quirky are the same people who bullied people for acting like this.
No hate to Wednesday, I love it, and I love how it's bringing things like neurodivergency into the light in a way that many of us approve of (yes, it's not confirmed). But some of the fans? I don't like it.
Exactly
it’s always been like that. teenagers want to look and act like the medias that’s trending rn. it’s like when people wore nirvana shirts but weren’t aware it was a band.
Its never that deep
@@chidiogoikeh4550 have you even eatched the video?
Damn what assholes
As a person who grew up with the original show as a constant thing in my house I agree with your parents that the Wednesday show does feel more close to the campy sitcom vibe (which I freaking loved). Also as a kid who grew up being bullied for being a punky goth, wears all black and is different kid, it both warms my heart and weirds me out how in recent year the ‘outcast’ has began to become so beloved. It makes me happy cause kids like me are growing up in a slightly better world where yeah they’ll probably still be bullied but they have the knowledge and cultural mainstream idols to look to. But it does weird me out because back in my day (early 2000’s to mid 2010’s) outcast in movies were cool sometimes but never to this extreme. This new mixture of internet culture and fandom is taking everything and turning it up to 11. Now ‘popular’ kids are into alt characters and outwardly show that but when actually alt kids do it they still get bullied… it’s so weird to see. I’ll never be upset when alt characters are given there flowers but I will when people only accept them and not people equivalent to them irl.
The thing is, real life people can't queerbait. That's just not possible. A show can do it, yes. But to the actors in the show. And being forced to come out before being ready for it, because of this, is horrible.
Wednesday: (Has a close friendship with another teenage girl.)
Fans: (cancels Jenna Ortega for queer baiting)
This is why I hate fandoms today. Not everything is gay. Didn't we all fight hard to stop the forcing of the "guys and girls can't be friends" narrative??? Do we now gotta do this with same sex friendships!?
@@IceQueen975 i do agree with the narrative “not everything is gay” but sometimes people want to have headcanons? headcanons don’t harm anyone and it’s FICTIONAL.
@@july6th true, headcanons are completely fine. But the moment you bring the person behind the scenes into it, then it becomes a problem.
@@Latency345 no one brought anything behind the scenes.
@@july6th did you even watch the video
can’t have a fun character without “fans” ruining it 💀
“Everywhere I go I see her face”
Megamind is safe for now
@@ahshhr3jeoapjfb3jejeee74 oh lord imagine..
welcome to the internet buddy
Am I the only one getting tired of "fans" trying to figure out and invent the character's sexuality? It makes me so uncomfortable and it's just plain creepy
As a semi-old and huge fan of The Addams Family, I almost stopped when you said you weren’t familiar because I was like “How will they be able to review this accurately without a point of reference?” But then you brought your adorable parents on with their frame of reference and it just goes to show how good you are at these reviews and how you do try be as thorough as possible. Keep up the good work with your channel.
i think wednesday in this version is autism-coded (and i like the idea of her being queer/being with enid), but the fanwars have got to stop. people argue about whether you can like wednesday or do her dance or cosplay her, but that type of discourse just doesn't work with wednesday because well.... she's wednesday addams. she's too big of a character to gatekeep.
But like this shit doesn't happen as much, or at least isn't seen as super cringy, in smaller fandoms. I wish people would just be okay with people being fans
You're not wrong, but you have to get how much it sucks to see the exact people who once bullied you for being autistic and doing autistic things, stanning a character that's heavily coded
@@alexolivers9476 Yeah but it isn't a PROBLEM in smaller fandoms to any concerning extent, because if there's less buzz surrounding the property or it's older and is past its "prime" persay there is less manpower amongst fans to harass and nitpick the stars on the topic of the show or their thoughts surrounding it. Yeah actors still might get questions at conventions, but they won't get bullied by thousands of kids on Twitter to come out when they're probably not even queer! Like I'm sure Charlie Cox doesn't give a flying fck if you ship Daredevil and the Punisher, but people are now labelling Jenna as a lesbian and again, harassing her, on socials ab it, just bc of that interview clip where she's flustered over Gwendoline Christie. (no hate intended btw if this comes across as aggressive)
I don't see her as autism coded AT ALL.
You have to be joking. She is obviously autistic? This is ridiculous.
it's annoying asf bc i was alt in high school and i had people laughing at me, people coming up to me asking if they could see my wrists, people calling me slurs. and now these same types of people are out here thirsting over ppl like eddie and wednesday like... brother in christ, shut up maybe.
It annoys me how a good portion of the people I saw irl drooling over Eddie Munson were the EXACT type of people who would bully him if he went to school with them, the way they bullied other kids who were "weird" or differed from their norm in any way
Wednesday existed well before Munson so I don't understand the comparison. People love Wednesday because she was an iconic gloomy character in a league of her own when the Addams family aired?? She's supposed to be campy
The comparison is the way fans react to the quirky alt characters in a kinda weird toxic way. As she explained very clearly in the video
@@JLMac322 then thats the too far fans fault
@@squilibonktinkerslouch4390 yEAH AND that was also explained in the video.... I don't think anyone here actually watched the video?!
Wednesday is popular with, for lack of a better word, "normies". Your average young viewer is obsessed with Wednesday now but most either hadn't heard of the Addams Family at all prior or had heard of it but just saw it as this weirdo goth/alt kid thing like The Nightmare Before Christmas, Hocus Pocus or Beetlejuice.
It was never STRANGER THINGS levels of popularity in the internet age even with fans talking about watching it around Halloween time every year. Now the same kinds of people who would, or even still do, bully the goth/alt kids who maybe dress or act like Wednesday or Munson are gushing about the characters because it's trendy on Tiktok.
Pov: You never watched the video
Personally this hurts. A lot. I was the weird, gifted, friendless, always reading, can’t relate to anyone, dresses weird, fidgeting, geeky, friendless outcast. It left some pretty deep emotional scars and I still to this day have trouble believing anyone would actually want to be around me. On top of that, I’ve been an Adams Family fan since I was like five and my dad showed me the old show. I’ve memorized the theme song, gone to see plays, and dressed up as Wednesday. She was always my favorite, as I was also a young, dark-haired girl, and I related to her. So seeing it become so popularized… it’s very painful to me. I kind of wish the show was never made as I feel like this fandom has been taken from me, that it’s lost its meaning. But it’s not cool to gatekeep so I’m just doing my best to enjoy the new show for what it is, and keep to myself.
Posers and trend chasers are nothing new, don't lose sleep over it. It's only a trend for a while, then it will be forgotten by the idiots who obsessed over something they aren't even a part of in the first place. The same thing happened with Eddy Munson, and now that that's died down, metal culture hasn't really changed. It's because culture is about more than just a hairdo and an outfit, it's about how you feel about the Adams Family, and how I feel about Motörhead. Culture is timeless, and no amount of TikTok views can change that until those people actually start to gain interest in the substance behind the style
Thanks, you’re right. People will be over this soon and I can go back to giving in my dark little campy goth corner.
Like all fads, this soon shall fade again. Remember how many people were suddenly into D&D after Stranger Things? Then poof, like nothing happened, everything is back in "order".
2 best friends almost died fighting different sides of the same battle so Wednesday finally puts her hug boundary aside because she's appreciating Enid's life, participation in the mystery, & hypothetical sacrifice. And mfs (the fans. Not the writers. Y'ALL.) wanna make it gay? Y'all probably fuck anybody you vibed with for 2 weeks without even really knowing em, y'all need to learn prioritization. Wednesday is the last person to be wondering what her sexual orientation is & Enid has a massive crush on a specific dude, so don't wait up 😂🤦
They tried so hard to push the narrative in the show that Wednesday was nothing but an outcast that people felt weirded out by. Bitch, she had two immediate love interests within the first WEEK of showing up to that school. She also immediately had a friend who tolerated her “quirky” dark humor and rudeness. People in real life would LOVE her because everyone loves a quirky, conventionally attractive goth girl, or wants to be one (in theory, since I know people also mock people who are “different”. They only favor it when it benefits them).
But, also, the show and her jokes were a little too on the nose. I think Jenna herself did well, and I love her. I really blame the writing. All of her little quips made me go, “WE GET IT, you’re dark and edgy and like…killing people, or something. Add more DEPTH”.
I totally agree
yeah, the performance was really good. but by the 100th "clever" snide evil comment that has no payoff because she never actually does anything crazy after the literal first episode, it kinda flatlines. it's not jenna ortega's fault of course, she didn't write this thing.
Most 'weird' or outcast people don't get the attention their fantasized media versions get because the Netflix and media versions are played by actresses and are designed to be attractive. Most weird people like a irl Wednesday wouldn't look like a 20 something actress but more like a baggy eyed recluse that's unkept and out of shape.
Now if you're weird or a recluse and suddenly start to care about your appearance or suddenly drop weight, you'll find the same people gossiping about how weird you are suddenly talk about your mysteriousness and quirkiness. It's happened to me as an adult and teenager.
True. I feel sorry about the "weird" people in the comments talking about their experiences, but they most likely get treated this way because aren't as attractive as Jenna Ortega. Sad reality, but true
That's true sadly
I was always the "freak" and as a kid I was also extremely ugly, so the only reason why I had any friends was either because I met them in games online, or because of my teacher feeling so bad for me that she asked the nicest kids from my class to care for me
Then when I was 16 or 17 it straight up felt like the life cycle of a butterfly - I stopped looking so horrible and instead started looking like the typical "goth gf" Google images result (I starting taking care of myself and also my baby face was finally gone)
It changed things quite a bit, as much as people still make fun of me there are so many online simps who claim to enjoy how odd I tend to be
At this point I feel like most of my online presence revolves around the weird things I do, but I bet if I still looked the way I did as a 12 year old none of it would be positive since then it just wouldn't be "cute" or "interesting" to them anymore
Welp, life is odd for sure
I’m going this dilemma right now and without blowing my own horn, I’m considered “Handsome”/“attractive” but whenever I date a girl they straight up tell me they don’t like my mysteriousness or quirks and leave me for it. I’m pretty sure this works only for females, there’s a market for quirky quiet girls today after all. Specifically in the US men are expected to fit a certain mold or they get cut.
Your dad asking the viewers if he looks old is such a dad thing to say =))))
Before the show came out my friend even started making fun of me for being emo, now he's out here fanning about wednesday saying she's an icon
It’s funny, just yesterday I was conversing with some of my co workers (who were defiantly the more popular/attractive/easy to like people) and they had brought up this other coworker of mine and how weird and dumb it was that she brought up something to do with her DND figures and how she needs to paint them and going into detail of them and all. And this co worker I quite like we both have the same kind of interest in the same kind of dumb things, and I enjoy letting her talk about it. And I mentioned to these co workers that “yeah I have a interest in all that stuff to, the difference between me and her is that I understand when nobody gives a shit about what I’m talking about” and then I see this video and what I said yesterday make sense.
People truly don’t give a shit what it’s like being an “outsider” or whatever you want to call it, and people who truly are an outsider get frustrated with these characters that portray something that just isn’t real. These people don’t know how to handle someone with strange interest or personalities and they don’t want to be with them. This shit is lonely. In order for me to fit in just a tiny bit I have to act like a chameleon and leave out a huge portion of what makes me truly me in order to get some acceptance amongst my peers. I wish I could’ve stuck up for my coworker more or just acted my true self, but it isn’t that easy, I don’t get any rewards or accolades for being quirky or different, I don’t get the love and attention these characters get. I’m just left out. And this never gets portrayed really. That’s not marketable. It’s just too real for people to swallow.
And not to ramble on anymore but the reality of these loner, queer, quirky people that these romanticized versions never show is that me and my co worker are the two most common paths that we take. You either freely express yourself and alienate everyone around you, or you tuck away parts of yourself to make up new versions that are more acceptable to the point that you’re not really sure who exactly “you” is. And these show writers, of all people, don’t seem to understand how aggressively some of us would like to just be normal, but stuck in a limbo of not really knowing if that’s the right way to feel or not.
As a queer and potentially neurodivergent person I do think that these communities are going in too hard! Most people who are queer and specifically neurodivergent don't find out anything about their diagnosis until later on in life - OR EVER! Why is it essential to label these characters as having to belong into certain diagnosis within the show when the reality we all belong on a spectrum with queerness and specifically in my case (26 years old with no formal diagnosis) ASD which I'm waiting on a meeting for is a spectrum too? People's desire to put people in certain boxes is ultimately incredibly problematic.
As a neurodivergent girl (adhd), I can understand wanting to have caracters that are clear members of a comunity/demographic, but a caracter who have traits from this comunity/demographic is still a good thing and help people from this comunity/demographic relate to the caracter. Also realisticly, neurodivergent girls get diagnose a lot more latter in life (at least for adhd and autism), so it makes sense for a teenage girl to have neurodivergent traits, but no diagnostic.
@@mariane5564 I don't know why you needed to specify that AFAB women are later diagnosed. I'm trans nonbinary and that makes it even more difficult.
@@tylerpattenden4593 I don't really know the statistics for trans and nonbinary people about neurodivergent diagnostic, but I know the statistics for the cis women, but it wouldn't surprise me if the statistics are similar or even worse for the trans and nonbinary people
@@mariane5564 well I had been asking for help or a diagnosis/assessment for 4years now and I still don't have a confirmed date
@@mariane5564 I'm queer, neurodivergent, bipolar, non binary and then on top of that I am Romani so basically I will receive abuse from homophobic people, transphobic people, misogynists and racists too
Sophia di martino was badly bullied for playing sylvie in the loki series
Like seriously leave the actors alone they are just doing their job
It crosses mediums too, the visual model for a character from The Last of Us two was bullied off've social media and sent THOUSANDS of death threats because people hated her character so much, I think she's back online now but damn
@@sp0ngeb00b7 I don't know the whole story behind this, but I have to assume that you're talking about Abby because the harassment that anyone remotely tied to her character received was horrifying
This trend of thinking actors make their characters instead of the actual writers is very annoying whatever context it's in.
Like how people say Johnny Depp made potc; no, Elliot and Russio did
we are in the post modern era of cinema and tv and that is marked by the interaction with the masses. It's the era of memes, fanfics, sequels, remakes, more references to pop culture than you could think of. Because of this, which clearly got a rise with social media, these para social relationship that audiences have with the actors portraying the character they love is getting out of hand. A product that does not get a following, fans, fan art, fanfics, is prone to die quicker. We are in the era of caring more about characters than stories, which is the biggest difference between tv and cinema imo, also the reason these 8 episode season style is so popular rn, it's the quality of a movie with enough time to bond with the characters. And that's the thing, our mind doesn't understand what's real and what's not and we wish to meet these characters, and PR or whatever encourages the actors to interact because they know there's the goldmine to keep the product alive. And social media help us make that dream come true, the dream of getting to know more of the characters we fell in love with.
We know they are actors, but seeing it this way helps me understand with it gets so out of hand for some people.
btw I loved this video and the bit in the end w your mom is the most relatable thing ever haha
You summed up a problem that I've noticed but couldn't put into words.
You stated your points incredibly well and helped me understand this whole debacle much better. Kudos to you!
“Not quite for kids, not quite for adults either”, realest statement ever!
I don't think Wednesday was written to be queer, although I do wish she was written either ace/aro or pan, it would fit well with the way she usually relates to the world. Could be a nice character arc for her to go from not caring about anyone to discovering she could care for anyone who's right for her no matter the gender / would be interesting to see her discover that she's not much attracted to people but has the potential to create strong platonic bonds with them.
It would also spare us having to look at her with her supposed love interests (those two guys, which is why I tink she wasn't written to be queer, at least not on purpose) whom she looks like she wants nothing to do with anyway. I believe the writers wanted to write a conflict between her, seemingly set in her ways, and relationships that challenged that, and the only one they succeeded writing close to well is the one with Enid, and this is why it feels queer. But I think it's a matter of successful writing with Enid and unsuccessful with the guys, not a matter of intentions.
From what I've heard (Friendly Space Ninja mostly, but others too) the guys feel bland and Enid annoys some people, but at least Enid has a character and a character arc, and that is also one of the reasons she stands out. If the writers wanted to focus on a queer romance or the magic of friendship, I think they should have left the guys out, at least as love interests, and made them friends only, or made very clear Wednesday was just using them to get away from town / to help with her investigation (which is totally what was happening anyway). If they wanted to succeed with the straight romance though, they should have gone all the way and created a weirder male character to accompany Wednesday (weird in a different but complimentary way to Wednesday's weirdness). And no, being a homicidal monster doesn't count. Pink-loving werewolf is more like it.
And this is a larger issue with characters in the series; Wednesday didn't feel toned down (thank god), but considering this is supposed to be a school for dark weird kids, the other students around her were way too normal.
Ngl, I'd also love an ace or pan Wednesday, aka like when she doesn't care.
I honestly think getting ace rep would be really cool!!
when you become the internet’s new it girl/boy, I feel like you become less humanised and more criticised after a while, I hope Jenna has a strong support system and people that actually care about her in her corner. She’s an incredible actress and she deserves the best.
To me I’m annoyed with people who used to bully/dislike alt, nd people liking Wednesday or eddie this much mainly because they wouldn’t like these characters if they weren’t played by pretty actors
I swear it’s Netflix shows in particular having the most toxic fans that can’t distinguish actors from their characters
The phrase “eddie munsonification” made me turn off my phone for a minute and evaluate my life choices
For me, the reason I related to Eddie and the Addams family from the 90s, is that when I was young, a long time ago, I was this little goth kid, and the Addams Family was something I could always relate to. The same with Tim Burton, I loved him and it always felt so relatable. And same with Eddie, he reminded me so much of myself. I always had a lot of friends, but always felt very alone in it anyway in a way where I also was this kinda loner who kinda just hated being around being, while still having friends. For me I loved both because I related to them. I don’t relate to Wednesday or the family in the new show, but I relate to the Addams Family from the 90s movies and 90s animated show. With Eddie is most when I became a tiny bit of an older teen because at that point I was more of a rocker/grunge girl, with pretty much the same attitude. I remember peoples parents being scared my “weirdness” would “rub off” on their kids. And I heated the things about how I was a satanic kid etc.
Lmaoooo your mom calling you out at the end
Can I just say, that since Lindsey Ellis has left youtube I’ve been steady trying to find someone to fill that void, and I think your channel and content may be it, thank you ❤
This is like the ultimate complement for sure, thank you so much!
finally someone makes a video about this! well said and i feel like this cycle of loving something then hating it or thinking it’s “cringe” always happens when a new series gets released even outside of netflix
Trends come and go. What's beloved will soon be hated which will be loved again in time or hated forever.
Your parents being upset by “old people” made me laugh so hard, reminds me of my parents! So wholesome
People really take stuff way too far, and honestly "queer baiting" is one of the most annoying terms ever... Especially when it comes to acting.
The whole "you're queer baiting because your character is gay and you're not".... Like, do people realize that A) you cant prove your sexuality in an audition... Nasty... B) Gay people get straight roles as well and some would rather not be typecast or don't wanna go public with their sexuality C) it's called acting because you're not supposed to be yourself but a character so those character's psychological differences must reflect on the actor, sexuality included. Of course this is much different with trans people as the representation of trans is important as a whole, it's psychological and physical. But being gay simply isn't everything about someone's life, or as present as being trans or being of a particular race. (This is a whole other discourse)
Yes some shows queer baited, (looking at you OUaT) but it started innocently from the writer's end, it's just the two leads had way too much chemistry, fans shipped, and they started abusing the will they won't they narrative. (To the point they're sharing a kid, pretty much living together and educating him as a couple, while both are in straight relationships... Eeeesh) and I see the wrong in that.
Wednesday doesn't really have downright queer behavior, we're projecting onto it. Do I think her and Enid have more chemistry than any of the two "love interests? Yes. But that's because truth be told, their relationship is the only one that's really fleshed out and explored, and totally works in a friendship context.
Now please, don't start with accusations or obsessing over real people... It's creepy and unhealthy. I too loved Jenna Ortega in this role, but separate admiration from obsession, she's around my age and I'd die getting all this attention tbh
im a metalhead and also have a huge appreciation towards goth music and culture, i hate to see when it gets capitalized off of and sold to a general audience and appropriated, i watched Wednesday and have the same general opinion as your parents, but i wish it didnt try so hard to appeal to the masses and more so stuck to its subculture. i still like the characters of Eddie Munson and Wednesday Addams, but i hate when the fans act like this and make it impossible to even like the show without it being called cringe
Wednesday was one of the few I could see myself in growing up, and although I kind of wanted to see more of her philosophy as a character, I enjoyed and felt my inner-child having a sense of Justice for presenting my favorite icon.
She’s unapologetic about being: knowledgeable, wearing black in any condition, doesn’t prioritize niche standards, having her own personal heroism that goes against the collectives, enjoys her own solitude, dances the way she wants too, and pursues Justice for those who deserve to be heard or have done no harm.
When I see these “normies” cosplaying as her or misinterpreting her character as an edgy one with no personality, I can’t help but feel a sting to the heart.
And then others ship her and Enid (I have no problem) but then there’s “those” shippers who’ll try to insinuate Jenna to come out with the sexuality they fantasize to make the ship seem more cannon.
I honestly just learned to enjoy things without interacting with any mainstream fandom. Maybe I might make a fic from here to there, but it’s annoying when others boil characters down into these “quirks” but don’t want anything to do with those quirks in actuality. Trends really do come and go
I was literally Eddie in school and out of school and it sure didn’t get me treated kindly. People are usually more nice and understanding as adults compared to when I was younger, mostly because I’ve discovered online communities of metalheads, goths, horror fans, readers, etc.
Been watching a lot of review and analysis videos involving Wednesday and so many people claiming to not be familiar with the Addams family franchise. I’m not even that old but now I’m questioning if I really am xD.
The movies are older than me and still I have watch them and are part of the reason why I watched the show
i’m 16 and the addams family + values are some of my favourite movies
Honestly I have no idea how some people didn't even know a little about the Addams family until now. I've barely interacted with the franchise but I could easily recognize each family member at a glance, they're just that iconic. Plus Thing is referenced in like everything ever and there's always talk online about how healthy of a family they are. I dunno.
It's not that the franchise isn't as new as you think it's that it's not as popular as you think
i know snippets about how their family dynamic vs. everyone else, aesthetics, & other stuff from tumblr posts and a crossover fanfic
"The Eddie Munsofication of Wednesday Addams" is quite literally the most iconic opening line to a RUclips video I've ever heard 🗿🗿💀💀😭😭 I will now be occasionally rewatching this video just to hear it if I ever need to randomly smile 😭😭😭
The main thing I got from this video is I’m so jealous of your relationship with your parents and it’s quite obvious how you’ve become so wholesome and introspective and I just love your channel and I’m so happy that you get to have such a lovely dynamic with them like this is what it must look like to not have abusive parents and it’s just so sweet and endearing that I literally can’t even
I support/ship Wenclair but I'd never force that on Jenna and Emma, they are actors not the actual character. Even if they're both straight that doesn't mean Wenclair can't happen because actors are not necessarily their characters and nobody should be pressuring Jenna into revealing her sexuality because it doesn't matter
Living for your parents 😂😂 feature them more in the future if you have the chance! They’re funny and lovely
“not quite for children and not quite for adults either” is so true
Mood : Me, a 32 yo who s been listening to heavy metal for 20 years , explaining to younger people for the 100th time that I am not doing an Eddy Munson genderswap cosplay just because I like the Hellfire club shirt, it s just how I dress 😂
I guess the thing is bullies identify so deeply and unintelligibly with the other they hate in real life. to the extent that when it's depicted in a TV series and they are silently watching and having a chance to reflect without proving anything to anyone, they just become fanatical towards the bullyable one.
The unholy Trinity of Netflix characters in 2022;
Eddie Munson, Jeffery Dahmer, and Wednesday Addams.
I never understood why Eddie was so loved. I mean I get it, he was really an innocent teen. But he had no character development besides "look at me, I play DnD" 🤷♂️
I still can't believe they made a WHOLE ASS THREAD about how "Eddie Munson is queer coded" only for the creator to come out and say no, he isn't. Only for that thread to be buried and ignored by the fans
I think that the idea of focusing on Wednesday's romantic relationships at all is weird. The idea of Wednesday Addams having a love interest baffles me and while the Enid shipping is pretty cute, I just can't see it. This could be biased, coming from an ace person, but I just think Wednesday has got more important things to get on with and I like her not having any romantic interest.
As someone who indentifies with characters like this the simping makes me cringe, Wednesday is strange even compared to the rest of her family and has all the marks of a neurodivergent introvert that has more going for her than just being quirky but that's all gen z TikTokers see, if she or Eddie from Stranger Things were real they'd be bullied asf they wouldn't have this strange fan following everyone would bully them
Your parents are sensational! I want a family sitcom
It’s really sad that great series like ST and Wednesday have such terrible people inside the fandom, because of this many people immediately cross out the WHOLE fandom
Honestly, as someone who's alt and as someone who never fit in as a kid, I have no problem with Eddie or Wednesday being popular. My issue lies in who's praising them. I loved Eddie and Wednesday, but half the people praising them are people who wouldn't have been seen with me in high school (or even now, for that matter) cause I'm too weird. I have no problem with them being popular, but dear God before you post about your love for Wednesday or Eddie, think about how you treated Wednesday and Eddie when you were in high school. Half the people I've seen wearing "Hellfire Club" tshirts bullied (or at least, completely ignored) the RPG club at my high school. It's not fun, it's not cute. There's nothing wrong with liking Wednesday, or Eddie, or anyone else who's "quirky uwu", but please, as the "weird kid", think about how you treat / treated the weird kids in your life before posting your dance, or your hellfire club tshirt, or your love for them. Cause as the weird emo kid, it FUCKING HURTS to see people who wouldn't dare be seen with me in public, either now or in high school, post about how awesome Wednesday and Eddie are cause they're ✨️alt and quirky and just don't care what people think✨️. Don't love the queer and / or alt character if you don't love the queer and / or alt people in your life
I totally did not expect this to be how society views certain characters, and the effect that has on the actors. But, this is so accurate and spot on i love it!
Your parents are adorable! I loved the little snippet at the end of the video, where your mum was making sure that your room was clean, such a pure soul, haha
What I think is interesting is that most people I personally saw really loving these characters were neurodivergent queer people who didn't always have a place to belong so there's definitely nuance here.
(I think projecting onto FICTIONAL CHARACTERS is totally fine, doing that for actors isn't so much)
You're right, it's odd how people are so quick to call everyone cringe who likes a thing a lot especially if they're young women or queer people
As a long time Adam's Family fan I am still incredibly confused how the hell Wednesday Addams could be put in a school for weird people and still be the outcast as is she was put in a normal school. I think the show would be way more interesting and fascinating if the plot was that she was put into a school of weirdos and that no matter how weird she acted she was still very lovingly accepted by her peers the same way her family is accepted of her but they're not her family and how that's so foreign and uncomfortable to her because it's not what she's used to aka the endless Adams Family punchline which is the whole point of those characters. Watching a character who's entire existence up to this point has been about trying to survive in a world that doesn't accept you and the shocking realization growing pains and acceptance of finally finding a group of people who accept you I think would have been more fascinating and a very powerful and very relevant message to gen Z instead of people doing a tick tock dance based to a song that's not even in the actual episode.
Eddie Munson wasn’t even overused in my opinion 💀 Robin was the one who seemed to just be quirky for the sake of it and she completely changed into that from a pretty cool character into someone who felt like she was mainly there to create reactions and not for story or a cool character.
I totally agree
People on the internet be weird but I doubt the vast majority of regular people think these things, it’s just an internet subgroup that gets a lot of attention put on them, you can enjoy a series you like even if you don’t like the community you’re allowed to like dhit
I have a friend that’s had their battle jacket called an eddie Munson jacket, and I’m pretty sure I never noticed anyone else at my school wear a battle jacket until after eddie Munson. Idk I genuinely hate how tiktok will just treat being alt like a trend and it defeats the whole point of being alt and just takes some of my passion away from it
I love your parents. They made me laugh a lot, especially the end. And I agree with everything they said about the shows over the years. Good video- thank you!
Your parents are ADORABLE and the most parentsy parents I've ever seen 😂💕
As a metalhead, I think the reason Eddie got popular is cuz he's goodlooking. In real life most metalhead dudes I've met are mostly old, fat, or look normal. And I wonder what would've happened if Eddie was played by a guy that looked average or ugly. I've also noticed that Master of Puppets got really popular because of the show, Netflix technically made a smart choice using a Metallica song because they're are the biggest metal band in the world and just a band that's really easy to get into. If they chose a smaller underrated thrash metal band they probably would've also got really popular but a majority of people that are not metalheads probably hasn't heard of em at all. I've noticed a lot of people at my school listen to Metallica, that's cool n all but it's weird to me honestly, Metallica was my first band and they made me explore more metal bands and more subgenres. Wednesday also popularized a song by The Cramps. I wonder what happens if Netflix uses a song like Volcanic Slut by Sodom 🤣
As a goth/punk/alternative person I really really really feel uncomfortable with this shit because it feels like a big part of my identity is being cheaply imitated and capitalised on to audiences who don't understand it, never had any other interaction with, will now use as a reference for it, and will totally bastardise their understanding of our identity
I swear to god having someone come up to me and tell me "oh your outfit, you're dressed like Wednesday!! I love that show, it's such a cool aesthetic (: " is somehow worse than when they used to just shout insults and laugh at me
Believe it or not the "Eddie Munson Cycle" happened with Trevor from Grand theft auto V... somehow. I distinctly remember seeing a fanfiction on tumblr of "Coming out as nonbinary to Trevor Philips" and thinking just "wow, none of these people have even played the game".
Oh, as a bisexual autistic goth, school was torment. Everyday. Eventually I wanted to do something drastic just to end it. And now it's my 22nd birthday.
Happy Birthday :)
@@monicasmalley3336 oh cheers, I had my first suprise party.
@@danielbergonzi7319 I hope you had fun
@@monicasmalley3336 Well I did?
Yes,let people like things until there is a "bar". I have been assulted and spit on whole my life, for someone to say to me in a tram " You Stranger things fans are way out of proportions,why would you cosplay Eddie on a regular day?" .I like Eddie.I love Joseph Quinn. What I do not love is being stomped on my whole life for being a metalhead and then being told that Im cosplaying a character because I have hightops and a battle jacket. I have went to a lot of goth parties,I have seen so much of us being bullied since I was a child.Shows like this give you hope that It will be better,but in the end you just see trends and you are getting classified as a crazy fan of a show.But that is life for you. Go confuse people with uggs and a Dio shirt
the uggs and a dio shirt sent me 😭
This is why I stay away from groups even if I enjoy the same things they do. It can be draining with all the arguments , ships, and people just picking apart the tiniest bits of information just so they can project. It’s fine if you relate with someone, I can definitely say I have, but that doesn’t mean they’re you
Oh another thought Wednesday fans should keep in mind. Most producers and writers will not cast people who are in a relationship as playing characters who are in a relationship. So if Emma and Jenna did hook up irl. It would probably kill the WedClaire ship dead in the water.
Let the girls keep their private lives private, for the sake of the ship !
Yeah, for the sake of the ship, totally not because it’s an invasion of privacy. Definitely. 😐
@@cupio-stardust dude, sarcasm exists. I was using it
@@toyloliSpare oh, my bad. Not too good at reading it yet.
I always liked things like Wednesday, Mavis, etc. as a young kid and I was "weird" for that, but now that she's popular, it's cool?
What is the necessity for any character to be a part of any spectrum ?
The show or the characters. Its not real !
That's a pill most fandoms cant swallow .
That’s not the point though. Actual ND people are recognising themselves in characters and there are definitely characters that are autistic coded without ever stated to actually be.
@@HiBuddyyyyyy The more people run away from reality, the more miserable and sad they become.
@@AuseyOG I don’t know what that has to do with what I said.
Your parents at the end were so cute 😭😭
Cursing is f%*^ing awesome!!
I grew up with the “campy” B&W tv show and will always consider it the gold standard (although Tim Curry as Gomez… omg 🥰). I would agree with your parents about the content being darker than what was common on tv at the time, but honestly for those of us who lived for Dark Shadows (who ran home from school every afternoon to catch the latest installment?? 🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️), The Addams Family tv series was a safer way to get a dose of Darkness that our parents wouldn’t mind as much.
Love your channel so much!!
I miss when ppl weren't obsessed with a character's sexuality. It often has nothing to do with the character or plot as a whole. Just ppl wanting to go "YEA THAT CHARACTER IS ON MY TEAM"
If gen z keeps this up, shows and movies will have to make characters with bland personalities
One thing I can’t forgive the Wednesday fandom for is the fact they replaced the song goo goo muck by the cramps with that dance song