My wargaming friends once did a night battle where the ships were set up on the floor of a darkened room. To simulate the problems with spotting targets with spotlights, the referee had them use a flashlight which they got to turn on for five seconds at a time, while holding it over their ship. Then they had to write their orders. They didn't sink a lot of ships, but they torpedoed the heck out of an island. :) (There was more than one island shelled and torpedoed in the real war, so it wasn't a bad simulation.)
leviathan I wasn’t there so I’m not sure how there handled that. My guess is that the GM would illuminate the friendly fleet since those positions were known.
I know the video is old,but I perked up when I heard the O'Bannon mentioned. My grandfather served in that vessel. When it was scrapped, it was one of the only times my mom saw him emotional. We have a piece of the ship from the scrapping, And a news paper clipping detailing it's war time antics.
There's definitely a recurring theme with these videos, they think that they can do better than the actual general, and it ends with either a very similar outcome or slightly worse for them.
@@torymiddlebrooks I think it turns out wargames designed to replicate the dynamics of the real war as told by the events may bias toward results that favour what the generals and admirals of the day produced. You can only model what happened usually, not as easily can you model what may have happened. Its especially the case I think when you're dealing with WW2 where there were actually a relatively paucity of real large engagements for surface fleets meaning the data on that is relatively low. By contrast I think the data for the battle of the atlantic is much better, but for some reason people don't seem as interested in wargaming that.
@Kelly Arthur I mean in a larger-scale a Battle of the Atlantic Wargame could be very fun, but you'd have to essentially make your own systems if you want to properly Wargame the Battle of the Atlantic as a whole
A definite problem with wargaming is that perpetual hindsight issue. Regardless of which side you are on, you already know what happened and what you are up against. The only fix is a campaign system where you have no clue what and when you are going to engage the enemy when you go tactical.
You could also have a range of possible opponents...which your ‘objective’ changing depending on the force match. Still, the goal here was to re-fight an historic battle, and they did change things up with the double blind plotting of movement to contact.
There are ways to overcome this, but the more complex it gets ,the harder it is to actually set up and play. A classic military-style way is to have the players in their own room with a small board. They send out orders and receive reports from a referee. The players plot their own board based on information received. While in the main room, the referee have the actual board set up.
Hey fellas, I just want y'all to know. This video is what started me down the path into naval war game. I just finished buying my first fleets in victory at Sea by Warlord games. Thank you so much for getting me into this amazing hobby
We are very interested in this kind of feedback...do you mean more time focusing on the wargame generally? Or do you mean a specific focus on close ups of the models, with a mention of the painting, manufacturer, etc?
Little Wars TV Yes, it would be great if you could talk about the models in regards to the painting, manufacturers etc. However, I don't feel much change is needed to the wargaming as it nice to be able to follow the battles without any understanding of the rule set in use.
I have to agree with Kjk1989 too. If I'm curious about the rules, I'll watch your relevant rules review video. I was especially impressed with the beautiful naval miniatures used for this Guadalcanal game. Absolutely loved the torpedo markers, sinking ships and the missed shell splashes. Great visual touches.
@@LittleWarsTV in all honesty, alot of jungle islands in the south pacific smell nasty due to the decaying foliage on the ground, kind of like a stagnant frog pond
Really outstanding AAR. The sun playing on the cloth used for the sea made it look like clouds were parting and sun was coming through (Yes, I know it was a night action). Really well done! 4.0
That's a pretty cool place to work. We had a great day walking around the campus and barely scratched the surface of all the history. We have a bonus video coming next week showing some of our favorite historical stops around the academy. No doubt, you'll know them all!
If you get a chance, read Destroyer Captain by Capt. Hara, commander of Amatsukaze during the battle. The Japanese perspective is quite unexpected. Also includes some very interesting info about other destroyer battles.
love the scene in The Gallant Hours where Halsey played by Cagney gives his two stars to be taken to the widows of Scott and Callaghan who lost their lives in the waters around Guadalcanal. The surface admirals had alot to learn as the first two big sea battles were carrier duels... conservatism of the thirties left officers lacking in aggressive spirit so to speak at the high levels..learned fast guys like Buckely..and Halsey//
I saw the picture of the Sullivan brothers and my blood froze. I see that picture going home every day from work. I work at the Yokosuka naval base in Japan. There is a middle school named after them. I walk through it every day I go home (on base). Crazy story. There was an error on the electronic board that shows their picture on the board outside of school that shows the school announcements. I pointed it out and they fixed it. Now the brother in the center doesn't look like a Lovecraftian horror. Anyway, this goes to show how much wargaming has furthered our educational knowledge of war. If it wasn't for wargaming, we wouldn't have the knowledge of war we do now. Thank you folks for making these videos!
I like the short hand version of this but I would also love it if there was a longer grognard version of this but I imagine that could create a crap ton of extra editing work.
WAR PLAN ORANGE 1936 - Our group here in KC did a mini-JUTLAND at the HAHMGS con a while back, it was interesting to see both sides with 10 BB'/BC ;each side (J 6 BB;,4 BC - No Yamato class yet) vs. 10 BB's ( A 8 BB PH + 2 BB more) in 1936) - the Japanese were invading the Phillipines with troops and naval battle-line support along with cruisers, DD's, and small early naval-air (about 20 planes from CVL ) - the US also had naval-air (about 20 planes from CVL), cruisers, DD's - each side also had 1 "sub" on the other end of the table (ping-pong sized) to spot/attack the enemy fleets entering the blue-hexed table ! Both fleets sent in small air-strikes first and DD groups to attack the enemy battle-lines and breakup their formations into smaller groups ! The Japanese had their long-lance torps which had twice the range of the US torps ! Both fleets sent their cruisers forward to chase the DD's away and the cruisers took the first damage from BB fire ! The battle broke into smaller groups firing at those enemy smaller groups closest in range - the Kongo-class BCs when off to one side and fire at the exposed US CA's then got pounded by the US BB-line ! The US eventually won the battle this time as they stayed together as a formed line and the Japanese broke-up into smaller groups which were over-come eventually !! Also the Japanese had their troop-ships to defend from smaller US ship attacks and that seemed a disadvantage ! There were two "OOB's " we used in setting up this battle - an Avalanche Games boxed game and a booklet by Ben King that was available . :-)
Yes. I have a nephew who is half Japanese and when he was visiting last I thought - "Now's my chance!" and asked him how to pronounce Hiei - and he confirmed that I was correct in pronouncing it Hee-ay as said. .
That was great guys. I just had a few beers and watched this on a Sunday evening. I learnt and laughed and lauded your presentation. I’ve watched most of your videos. All good fun. Thanks for the entertainment.
Awesome work, guys! I love the way you handled the element of surprise with the 'switcharoo'. I, too am a huge fan of surface combat in the Solomon Isalnds, and this seems like a rich vein you could tap for many future episodes. I really like how you match up a compelling scenario play-through with a rules review. Keep it up!
I am inclined to say that the first time a person is in a new particular situation, sometimes even in a similar situation but now in charge, there could be a bit of hesitation. Scott hesitated the first time he was in action. Arleigh Burke also hesitated. He later took to quizzing young officers on difference between a good or bad commander. The young officer might offer some good points, but Arliegh would say: about 10 sec. Napoleon also said something like the moment may occur only once which could change the course of a battle.
Midway by Avalon Hill was a great game that allowed for searching for enemy fleet - and then once found - to attack individual ships with aircraft. A great game design and true to life. Another game they did not mention was "CA" as in "Cruiser" ( I forget the company that put it out) which was a game of surface ship action in Iron Botton Sound, which was easy to play and had night action, searchlights, and ships "dead in the water", etc. Another very good game.
BATTLE OFF DOVER WW1 - Our group recently did this WW1 surface battle of the German BC squadron coming onto the blue ping-pong sized table from the east side to bombard Dover which was at the NW corner of the table ! The battle is based on an AH General mag article which adds additional ships (Dover Squadrons) to the AH Jutland game. The Germans had been bombarding port towns along the Brits east coast and in this battle the Brits knew they were coming but didn't know where (which port?) so they were sending their Rosyth Group (Fast BBs & BCs) moving down the coast and leaving a few ships at each port so the final help coming from the north is a die-roll ! Dover is defended by the HMS Dreadnaught and 7 Pre-dreadnaught battleships, cruisers and DDs. The Brits Dover ships have to hold the German BC group til help arrives ! One helpful thing is there is a minefield that the Brits know where and the Germans don't ? If a ship goes thru the minefield it is handled like a torpepoe attack ( a D6 die-roll) !
The one destroyer (Stettin?) making a run on a Battleship is so appropriate for WW2; destroyer captains and crews were historically ballsy/ insane, at least on the allied side, doing some truly remarkable things with their boats (Taffy 3 anyone?)
pbeccas, we’re actually in the middle of a very elaborate, months long, double-blind Coral Sea operation right now. It involves strategic movement using mostly Avalon Hill Flat Top rules executed via Vassal online, and then actual fights are gamed out on the tabletop. Steve is refereeing the operation and all 9 different force commanders operate independently with the only knowledge of what even their allied forces are doing is gained via “radio” messages passed through Steve. The “fog of war” created by self-imposed radio silence is thick and agonizing for the players. This game doesn’t really lend itself to our usual episode format, but I’m sure we’ll do an explanation and recap video when it’s over. That may be a while, however, as we generally only get through, on average, 1 hour of “battle time” per week!
The tactical use of radar was in its infancy. The Allies had a huge technical advantage in surface search radars with PPI displays, which Germany and Japan never got. However, this was a last minute scratch team that had never operated together, and they tried to command from the ships with the best communications teams, not the ones with the best information displays. It did not matter which order the ships were in, what mattered was the ability to understand what was happening. (Those of us who have operated on the bridge and CIC at night will understand intuitively).
The only way to simulate this would be a three table game. One table has the judges and all the ships, and the players responsible for moving the ships strictly according to the orders provided. The other two tables have the respective admirals, the ships they can see, and blips where they think their own ships are. They are provided with a maybe 50 word (English is not as precise as ATPs are, so more than actual time would allow is required) description of what their other ships see provided by the player at the table. They then issue a maybe 50 word set of commands to the player at the table, who MUST follow the commands to the best of his ability.
Only stumbled across your channel recently, enjoying watching the content :-). A comment on this one though, in the rules discussion you mention that the Japanese having to use HE for the first three turns as a disadvantage, I think for the Japanese heavy guns at least HE is what you would want to be using, a 14 inch AP round is just going to punch a neat hole through a destroyer or light cruiser, a 14 inch HE detonating is going to do a lot more damage. Still, loving the videos.
Scenario suggestion: Battle of the Java Sea. Surely Karel Doorman could do better with a brainy wargamer at the helm. And ABDA really lends itself to a multi player side vs a single japanese player
Why did the US never figure out the "secret" of the long Lance torpedoes. IE the careful bending of the oxygen tube, no wrinkles, long radii sweeping bends to prevent any interruptions in laminar flow of the gas?
The US spent 1935 to 1943 believing that the Japanese were incapable of making indigenous innovative tech. Even though there were reports about the Zero and other very good Japanese planes in the later 30's, the reports, even when technically accurate, would end with... "This is obviously a copy of a German/Italian/American design" A pure oxygen torpedo like the Long Lance had been in development for years by both the US and the Royal Navy and neither could make it work. Enter 1942 and you have an American admiralty which doesn't want to admit that the existing US torpedoes are bad. The bureau of ordinance wasn't willing to admit that the Japanese had solved a technical issue the US couldn't. The very possibility would have seemed absurd as the Japanese were "known" not to be innovators.
I have begun building 1/700 scale ships to use for Naval Wargaming, because I am annoyed that you cannot get accurate ships for all of the classes (and the variations within each ship in the class) in any other scale (although I do have to do some modifications to get many of the variations in specific ships, especially for Destroyers). And, yeah, Callahan really screwed the game-up, even though they would wind-up beginning in a crossing-the-T formation. And, you missed the 8" and 6" guns of the Cruisers, which did manage to damage the Hiei badly enough to take-out the Hiei the next day. But, as for the gaming... Working in 1/2400 does allow for a much smaller game-space that I need for 1/700 (where I really need a 40’x40’ floor). But I do agree about the GQIII rules.
How was Admiral Abe killed? In GQ3 parlance, Hiei has a Control Tower (CT) not a Bridge, so the critical hit has to penetrate her BC armor, which a U.S. 5" gun cannot do at any range (even if you play Optional Rule 1.6.6 Crossing the T, the best 5" penetration of CA would go up to BD, not BC).
Dave Franklin , if you play GQ3 as written you’re correct that DDs can’t score a bridge/CT critical hit, but that’s one rule that never made sense to us, so we don’t adhere to it. In fact, during the historical battle both Admiral Abe and the Hiei’s captain were wounded by US destroyer fire that hit the battleship’s bridge, and Abe’s chief of staff was killed.
I have not played GQ3, so I will not pretend to know the rules, but during WWII a great many Japanese Admirals and Captains were killed on the bridge or flying bridge when they could have been safe in the conning tower. Most of this has been attributed to 'Samurai Honor!', which considered doing the sensible and sane thing (like going to the CT when people are shooting at you) as shameful while the stupid and moronic thing (like standing on the flying bridge in a close range night battle) was considered very honorable. There was also historical precedent as Admiral Togo refused to leave the open and unprotected bridge of HIJMS Mikasa during the Battle of Tsushima, and what was good enough for him (All blessed be his name in the eternal shrine that was Japanese Naval doctrine in WWII) was good enough for everyone else.
We thought about doing a terrain tutorial on this as a joke...it's a sheet of blue cloth from a craft store. Easiest terrain ever and it would be a 10 second tutorial!
Hey guys, gotta few noob questions. How did you find/make those torpedoes? Also, do any of you guys know a good reference for wwii naval combat in the pacific? Thanks!
Steve made the torpedo markers for the game and will likely do a tutorial on them at some point. As for references, there are a number of good options. A classic is Morison’s “Two Ocean War.” It covers Atlantic and Pacific operations but most of it is Pacific related and is a fine single volume account. If you are willing to go with multiple volumes, Ian Toll’s Pacific War Trilogy is an excellent choice. Finally, if you want to focus on the Solomon’s campaign specifically, Hornfischer’s “Neptune’s Inferno” would be a hard choice to beat. Thanks for watching and hope this helps!
Solomon islands were most famous for malaria and headhunters before Japan decided Guadalcanal would make a fine base to interdict allied convoys to Australia. It's not exactly a garden spot.
Japan was highly successful due to their night fighting They trained very hard to fight at night and took out many ailled ships at night time operations
As the Mighty Jingles will say, "That's a paddling." Also, it is a shame you guys did not use a Japanese naval song. ruclips.net/video/A75AQgDBtJI/видео.html Also, the Hiei is pronounced Hee-aye. And final note, for the Japanese's players, your performance was dishonorable.
Historical Thought - Was Kurita " the HAWK" the commander of the Japanese at Battle of Savo Island (night cruiser action) the SAME commander - Kurita - that lead at Leyte Gulf action off Samar against "Taffy 3" ??? In both battles he chose to RETREAT from action instead of ADVANCE into the Allies weaker "transports" where their loss would have WON these battles !!! :-0
@@LittleWarsTV I guess so. I started war gaming in the '60's with Avalon Hill games I played with my brother and my Jr. ROTC buddies from High School. Me and my buddies went in the military but when we got out we started playing again. One of them ended up owning a military hobbies store. We'd all gather there just before closing on Friday nights - then go a couple of doors down in this strip mall to a bar where we'd drink beer until 0200 the next morning and solve all the worlds problems. Then we'd go to Denny's and have breakfast while we solved any that might remain. We'd sleep all day - and then Saturday evening we'd gather and one of the guys places and play games all Saturday night. Women did that group in ... one by one they fell by the wayside of matrimony and after a while their wives wouldn't let them go play with the boys any more ... A couple of the guys had developed gaming systems and we might play those. We'd set up a hex map on a table and play out some game for months on Saturday nights. We also had ancients campaigns we played with miniatures. We had one of those on the Fall of Rome and another on Alexander's Successors. Then we had one off games with Napoleonic's or Modern miniatures. We also had compass and protractor Naval games - which would sometimes be fought out like in this video once a battle happened. Three maps - judge and two sides. Each side drew their moves on velum then handed it to the judge who transferred the moves to the Master Map and reported what was seen. We tried to fight the Falklands War while it was happening with some modern rules but it was to big for us. I spent 12 hours doing the search plots for the Argentinian Air Force ... so we gave up on that but we fought a lot of smaller engagements out. We had a round robin using the one guys naval system of the Worlds WWII Navies with the winner going on. French vs. Italians. Italians vs. British. British vs. Germans. Germans vs. Americans. Americans vs. Japanese. Our decorations weren't as elaborate as yours. We used styrofoam peanuts for smoke screens and the ships were just half inch pieces of card board with the ships name on them. All the hits info was keep on paper. Just as we had with Jutland we played on the floor of that hobby shop a lot after it closed for the day but also on a table at one of the guys houses. One guy had a France 1940 game he developed. Played on a hex map. Infantry Corp and Armored Division counters. That was another marathon game played over months. We played out different scenarios and the only way the Allies won was if the Belgians allowed the British and French to come in and set up. With a line of French Infantry Corps going through the Ardennes and tying into the Maginot Line - the Germans ground themselves up against that. Oh - and the RAF had to make a full commitment of it's aircraft to the Battle on the Continent instead of keeping them all in reserve. Anyway ... yeah ... brings back memories of my younger days. .
Chris hyde jhyde Wrong battle, mate. The battle fought in this wargame was the Second Battle of Savo Island (aka Battle of Cape Esperance). In the First Battle of Savo Island, allied forces were led by a UK admiral and did include commonwealth forces. Guadalcanal was a long campaign with many battles. It might help your case if you pointed out exactly the battles to which you refer (especially any battles that contained Dutch warships-this could be educational for us).
Hahah indeed. Our History Channel credentials would improve dramatically if this naval game resulted in a search for lost Nazi gold, ancient aliens, or perhaps the discovery of "swamp people."
1/3 of video is a historical overview? People know the general history of the battle, I wish you had spent that time talking about how the game mode is going to work. In the future please try and limit the historical talk and instead put more of the gaming aspects into the video. At least how the history is going to affect the setup of the game. Jeez, you even brought in the Sullivan brothers, which are pretty irrelevant to the battle and the game setup.
Season 2 is going to include a bit less history and a bit more gaming. But we do still want to offer at least some "historical content" component to the main episodes.
@@LittleWarsTV Well to be honest I watched more videos after this comment, and I think you have about the right amount of history.:) Perhaps just a but more targeted, leaving out the broad strokes of a war and stick to the more direct history that had an impact on the actual battle. For instance the Marengo series was great, but you started it by talking about when Napoleon took command of France. I wish it had been more focused about the Italian campaign in Northern Italy with perhaps an equal emphasis on what the Austrians were doing. (more people know the Napoleon history than the Austrian side) As an Iowan I get tired of hearing about the Sullivan brothers. They are at /every/ museum it seems. Saw them in Texas even! Lastly, yes please talk more about the formations the miniatures represent.
My wargaming friends once did a night battle where the ships were set up on the floor of a darkened room. To simulate the problems with spotting targets with spotlights, the referee had them use a flashlight which they got to turn on for five seconds at a time, while holding it over their ship. Then they had to write their orders.
They didn't sink a lot of ships, but they torpedoed the heck out of an island. :)
(There was more than one island shelled and torpedoed in the real war, so it wasn't a bad simulation.)
Sounds like a fun event.
I would just be worried about stepping on my models
leviathan
I wasn’t there so I’m not sure how there handled that. My guess is that the GM would illuminate the friendly fleet since those positions were known.
What rule set?
Did the Torpedos end up sinking the Island?
I know the video is old,but I perked up when I heard the O'Bannon mentioned. My grandfather served in that vessel. When it was scrapped, it was one of the only times my mom saw him emotional. We have a piece of the ship from the scrapping, And a news paper clipping detailing it's war time antics.
They used my tank to form a corral reef; just dropped it in the water. I feel his pain.
There's definitely a recurring theme with these videos, they think that they can do better than the actual general, and it ends with either a very similar outcome or slightly worse for them.
Hah, our players here like to think they are very smart and skilled, James. Turns out...not so much.
Turns out! War is hard. I love this aspect of the battle reports.
@@torymiddlebrooks I think it turns out wargames designed to replicate the dynamics of the real war as told by the events may bias toward results that favour what the generals and admirals of the day produced. You can only model what happened usually, not as easily can you model what may have happened. Its especially the case I think when you're dealing with WW2 where there were actually a relatively paucity of real large engagements for surface fleets meaning the data on that is relatively low.
By contrast I think the data for the battle of the atlantic is much better, but for some reason people don't seem as interested in wargaming that.
@@BollocksUtwat Most likely since it's famous for submarine warfare, something people probably don't find that interesting to wargame
@Kelly Arthur I mean in a larger-scale a Battle of the Atlantic Wargame could be very fun, but you'd have to essentially make your own systems if you want to properly Wargame the Battle of the Atlantic as a whole
A definite problem with wargaming is that perpetual hindsight issue. Regardless of which side you are on, you already know what happened and what you are up against. The only fix is a campaign system where you have no clue what and when you are going to engage the enemy when you go tactical.
You could also have a range of possible opponents...which your ‘objective’ changing depending on the force match. Still, the goal here was to re-fight an historic battle, and they did change things up with the double blind plotting of movement to contact.
There are ways to overcome this, but the more complex it gets ,the harder it is to actually set up and play. A classic military-style way is to have the players in their own room with a small board. They send out orders and receive reports from a referee. The players plot their own board based on information received.
While in the main room, the referee have the actual board set up.
Hey fellas, I just want y'all to know. This video is what started me down the path into naval war game. I just finished buying my first fleets in victory at Sea by Warlord games. Thank you so much for getting me into this amazing hobby
Love the channel, but would really appreciate it if you spent some more time looking at the models/armies in each episode
We are very interested in this kind of feedback...do you mean more time focusing on the wargame generally? Or do you mean a specific focus on close ups of the models, with a mention of the painting, manufacturer, etc?
Little Wars TV Yes, it would be great if you could talk about the models in regards to the painting, manufacturers etc. However, I don't feel much change is needed to the wargaming as it nice to be able to follow the battles without any understanding of the rule set in use.
@@WeLoveGlennMurray Well said, the minutia of the game rules isn't as impressive as a review of the models beforehand.
I like the part in the trebia wargame were you highlight the unit that saves hannibal's ass.
I have to agree with Kjk1989 too. If I'm curious about the rules, I'll watch your relevant rules review video. I was especially impressed with the beautiful naval miniatures used for this Guadalcanal game. Absolutely loved the torpedo markers, sinking ships and the missed shell splashes. Great visual touches.
"We're on your mother in-law's farm and all I can smell is manure....I am out of here!" Hilarious!
...and quite true! It's an active farm. Not exactly the tropical paradise we all would have preferred.
@@LittleWarsTV in all honesty, alot of jungle islands in the south pacific smell nasty due to the decaying foliage on the ground, kind of like a stagnant frog pond
I am 4 years late to the party here but you guys are so much more than a war gaming channel and it is original and just awesome!!
Really outstanding AAR. The sun playing on the cloth used for the sea made it look like clouds were parting and sun was coming through (Yes, I know it was a night action). Really well done! 4.0
It was fabulous to see you all at my work place. Some great background footage of the United States Naval Academy. Excellent work fellas.
That's a pretty cool place to work. We had a great day walking around the campus and barely scratched the surface of all the history. We have a bonus video coming next week showing some of our favorite historical stops around the academy. No doubt, you'll know them all!
Little Wars TV Excellent. I can’t wait. The Fire Department says hello!
Hey...that explains the RUclips user name!
If you get a chance, read Destroyer Captain by Capt. Hara, commander of Amatsukaze during the battle. The Japanese perspective is quite unexpected. Also includes some very interesting info about other destroyer battles.
Just discovered the channel and I am SOO happy! Super entertaining, historically sound, and great players. Thank you.
love the scene in The Gallant Hours where Halsey played by Cagney gives his two stars to be taken to the widows of Scott and Callaghan who lost their lives in the waters around Guadalcanal. The surface admirals had alot to learn as the first two big sea battles were carrier duels... conservatism of the thirties left officers lacking in aggressive spirit so to speak at the high levels..learned fast guys like Buckely..and Halsey//
Great variety in periods guys, another splendid video
Well done, as usual. I love the balance between the historical overview and the actual gameplay.
Great game. Love too see such a variety. Longer games would be nice.
I love the idea of surface and sub-surface naval warfare wargaming, sounds like a lot of fun
Excellent splash markers and models! Who makes them?
William Hastings, the splash markers were made by a club-member, while the models were all GHQ 1/2400.
I'm loving the empty hollow coconut
I saw the picture of the Sullivan brothers and my blood froze. I see that picture going home every day from work. I work at the Yokosuka naval base in Japan. There is a middle school named after them. I walk through it every day I go home (on base). Crazy story. There was an error on the electronic board that shows their picture on the board outside of school that shows the school announcements. I pointed it out and they fixed it. Now the brother in the center doesn't look like a Lovecraftian horror. Anyway, this goes to show how much wargaming has furthered our educational knowledge of war. If it wasn't for wargaming, we wouldn't have the knowledge of war we do now. Thank you folks for making these videos!
An ocean of happiness for a wargamer! Sounds great...and unusual!
I like the short hand version of this but I would also love it if there was a longer grognard version of this but I imagine that could create a crap ton of extra editing work.
This is so cool. I love the battle reports! Keep it up!
Love your creativity, humor, and history lessons!
Another great video guys. Thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks a lot.
WAR PLAN ORANGE 1936 - Our group here in KC did a mini-JUTLAND at the HAHMGS con a while back, it was interesting to see both sides with 10 BB'/BC ;each side (J 6 BB;,4 BC - No Yamato class yet) vs. 10 BB's ( A 8 BB PH + 2 BB more) in 1936) - the Japanese were invading the Phillipines with troops and naval battle-line support along with cruisers, DD's, and small early naval-air (about 20 planes from CVL ) - the US also had naval-air (about 20 planes from CVL), cruisers, DD's - each side also had 1 "sub" on the other end of the table (ping-pong sized) to spot/attack the enemy fleets entering the blue-hexed table ! Both fleets sent in small air-strikes first and DD groups to attack the enemy battle-lines and breakup their formations into smaller groups ! The Japanese had their long-lance torps which had twice the range of the US torps ! Both fleets sent their cruisers forward to chase the DD's away and the cruisers took the first damage from BB fire ! The battle broke into smaller groups firing at those enemy smaller groups closest in range - the Kongo-class BCs when off to one side and fire at the exposed US CA's then got pounded by the US BB-line ! The US eventually won the battle this time as they stayed together as a formed line and the Japanese broke-up into smaller groups which were over-come eventually !! Also the Japanese had their troop-ships to defend from smaller US ship attacks and that seemed a disadvantage ! There were two "OOB's " we used in setting up this battle - an Avalanche Games boxed game and a booklet by Ben King that was available . :-)
thank you again
Battleship Hiei... "Hi-Ee-ay." "Hee-ay" is correct. Excellent video and very interesting game. Thanks!
Yes. I have a nephew who is half Japanese and when he was visiting last I thought - "Now's my chance!" and asked him how to pronounce Hiei - and he confirmed that I was correct in pronouncing it Hee-ay as said.
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Excellent...as usual 👍🏼
WHAT DERVILTRY!! Flip-floppying the personas.... wickness unbounded
Another awesome, entertaining video. Keep it up guys!!
Thanks, Jim! Plenty more videos on the way.
That was great guys. I just had a few beers and watched this on a Sunday evening. I learnt and laughed and lauded your presentation.
I’ve watched most of your videos. All good fun.
Thanks for the entertainment.
Oh yeah I meant to write I’d love to see some of the action between the US Marines and the Japanese infantry someday. Banzai!
I love all these! You really just need to make them longer!!
Well done!
Game starts at 08:41
Awesome work, guys! I love the way you handled the element of surprise with the 'switcharoo'. I, too am a huge fan of surface combat in the Solomon Isalnds, and this seems like a rich vein you could tap for many future episodes.
I really like how you match up a compelling scenario play-through with a rules review.
Keep it up!
I am inclined to say that the first time a person is in a new particular situation, sometimes even in a similar situation but now in charge, there could be a bit of hesitation. Scott hesitated the first time he was in action. Arleigh Burke also hesitated. He later took to quizzing young officers on difference between a good or bad commander. The young officer might offer some good points, but Arliegh would say: about 10 sec. Napoleon also said something like the moment may occur only once which could change the course of a battle.
Great episode guys!
Midway by Avalon Hill was a great game that allowed for searching for enemy fleet - and then once found - to attack individual ships with aircraft. A great game design and true to life. Another game they did not mention was "CA" as in "Cruiser" ( I forget the company that put it out) which was a game of surface ship action in Iron Botton Sound, which was easy to play and had night action, searchlights, and ships "dead in the water", etc. Another very good game.
spi published that game along with dreadnought.
BATTLE OFF DOVER WW1 - Our group recently did this WW1 surface battle of the German BC squadron coming onto the blue ping-pong sized table from the east side to bombard Dover which was at the NW corner of the table ! The battle is based on an AH General mag article which adds additional ships (Dover Squadrons) to the AH Jutland game. The Germans had been bombarding port towns along the Brits east coast and in this battle the Brits knew they were coming but didn't know where (which port?) so they were sending their Rosyth Group (Fast BBs & BCs) moving down the coast and leaving a few ships at each port so the final help coming from the north is a die-roll ! Dover is defended by the HMS Dreadnaught and 7 Pre-dreadnaught battleships, cruisers and DDs. The Brits Dover ships have to hold the German BC group til help arrives ! One helpful thing is there is a minefield that the Brits know where and the Germans don't ? If a ship goes thru the minefield it is handled like a torpepoe attack ( a D6 die-roll) !
Ahhhh I visted Annapois and the Academy 26 years ago. Great and impressive buildings ♥
Has anybody mentioned how amazing of an effect you are getting from the sun shining through the waving trees? Really helps sell the realism factor!!!
Thank you--we paid a lot of money for that natural lighting VFX!
Tojo was fully squared away with night engagement protocol.... couldn't imagine being downrange of a 12" cannon on a sardine can
Great video! Loved every minute of this :-)
The one destroyer (Stettin?) making a run on a Battleship is so appropriate for WW2; destroyer captains and crews were historically ballsy/ insane, at least on the allied side, doing some truly remarkable things with their boats (Taffy 3 anyone?)
I love you guys pronounce Esperance. Great game, would love to see you do a Coral Sea refight.
pbeccas, we’re actually in the middle of a very elaborate, months long, double-blind Coral Sea operation right now. It involves strategic movement using mostly Avalon Hill Flat Top rules executed via Vassal online, and then actual fights are gamed out on the tabletop. Steve is refereeing the operation and all 9 different force commanders operate independently with the only knowledge of what even their allied forces are doing is gained via “radio” messages passed through Steve. The “fog of war” created by self-imposed radio silence is thick and agonizing for the players. This game doesn’t really lend itself to our usual episode format, but I’m sure we’ll do an explanation and recap video when it’s over. That may be a while, however, as we generally only get through, on average, 1 hour of “battle time” per week!
The tactical use of radar was in its infancy. The Allies had a huge technical advantage in surface search radars with PPI displays, which Germany and Japan never got. However, this was a last minute scratch team that had never operated together, and they tried to command from the ships with the best communications teams, not the ones with the best information displays. It did not matter which order the ships were in, what mattered was the ability to understand what was happening. (Those of us who have operated on the bridge and CIC at night will understand intuitively).
The only way to simulate this would be a three table game. One table has the judges and all the ships, and the players responsible for moving the ships strictly according to the orders provided.
The other two tables have the respective admirals, the ships they can see, and blips where they think their own ships are. They are provided with a maybe 50 word (English is not as precise as ATPs are, so more than actual time would allow is required) description of what their other ships see provided by the player at the table.
They then issue a maybe 50 word set of commands to the player at the table, who MUST follow the commands to the best of his ability.
Nah, this is the Solomon Islands! There are even palm trees!
Only stumbled across your channel recently, enjoying watching the content :-). A comment on this one though, in the rules discussion you mention that the Japanese having to use HE for the first three turns as a disadvantage, I think for the Japanese heavy guns at least HE is what you would want to be using, a 14 inch AP round is just going to punch a neat hole through a destroyer or light cruiser, a 14 inch HE detonating is going to do a lot more damage. Still, loving the videos.
Scenario suggestion: Battle of the Java Sea. Surely Karel Doorman could do better with a brainy wargamer at the helm. And ABDA really lends itself to a multi player side vs a single japanese player
That's an awesome idea, it would really capture the hectic nature of four navies working in tandem like they did under ABDA.
Why did the US never figure out the "secret" of the long Lance torpedoes. IE the careful bending of the oxygen tube, no wrinkles, long radii sweeping bends to prevent any interruptions in laminar flow of the gas?
The US spent 1935 to 1943 believing that the Japanese were incapable of making indigenous innovative tech. Even though there were reports about the Zero and other very good Japanese planes in the later 30's, the reports, even when technically accurate, would end with... "This is obviously a copy of a German/Italian/American design" A pure oxygen torpedo like the Long Lance had been in development for years by both the US and the Royal Navy and neither could make it work.
Enter 1942 and you have an American admiralty which doesn't want to admit that the existing US torpedoes are bad. The bureau of ordinance wasn't willing to admit that the Japanese had solved a technical issue the US couldn't. The very possibility would have seemed absurd as the Japanese were "known" not to be innovators.
I have begun building 1/700 scale ships to use for Naval Wargaming, because I am annoyed that you cannot get accurate ships for all of the classes (and the variations within each ship in the class) in any other scale (although I do have to do some modifications to get many of the variations in specific ships, especially for Destroyers).
And, yeah, Callahan really screwed the game-up, even though they would wind-up beginning in a crossing-the-T formation.
And, you missed the 8" and 6" guns of the Cruisers, which did manage to damage the Hiei badly enough to take-out the Hiei the next day.
But, as for the gaming... Working in 1/2400 does allow for a much smaller game-space that I need for 1/700 (where I really need a 40’x40’ floor). But I do agree about the GQIII rules.
great battle and i always enjoy everyone's sense of humor. Most gamers around here seem to have had theirs surgically removed......
If you're not having fun playing with toy soldiers, what's the point! Luckily our guys here have the right attitude about this.
Nice video...
From which company are the ships?
what did you use for the splash effects?
I'm curious about this myself.
I wanna see Adm Ching Lee's dice rolls for the 2nd Battle of Guadalcanal 😆
How was Admiral Abe killed? In GQ3 parlance, Hiei has a Control Tower (CT) not a Bridge, so the critical hit has to penetrate her BC armor, which a U.S. 5" gun cannot do at any range (even if you play Optional Rule 1.6.6 Crossing the T, the best 5" penetration of CA would go up to BD, not BC).
Dave Franklin , if you play GQ3 as written you’re correct that DDs can’t score a bridge/CT critical hit, but that’s one rule that never made sense to us, so we don’t adhere to it. In fact, during the historical battle both Admiral Abe and the Hiei’s captain were wounded by US destroyer fire that hit the battleship’s bridge, and Abe’s chief of staff was killed.
It was not my intention to be snarky, if that's what you mean.
Ah. I have a few GQ3 "house rules" too, but not WRT that aspect.
It was funny and my only moment of glory. If we did not nerf that rule, I would have been even more humiliated. HA.
I have not played GQ3, so I will not pretend to know the rules, but during WWII a great many Japanese Admirals and Captains were killed on the bridge or flying bridge when they could have been safe in the conning tower. Most of this has been attributed to 'Samurai Honor!', which considered doing the sensible and sane thing (like going to the CT when people are shooting at you) as shameful while the stupid and moronic thing (like standing on the flying bridge in a close range night battle) was considered very honorable. There was also historical precedent as Admiral Togo refused to leave the open and unprotected bridge of HIJMS Mikasa during the Battle of Tsushima, and what was good enough for him (All blessed be his name in the eternal shrine that was Japanese Naval doctrine in WWII) was good enough for everyone else.
How did you make your sea colored playing surface?
We thought about doing a terrain tutorial on this as a joke...it's a sheet of blue cloth from a craft store. Easiest terrain ever and it would be a 10 second tutorial!
Great content, really entertaining and interesting regarding history. Just one questions, which brand o where you buy the miniatures ?
Carrier action next, where did you get those model
LuckyEscort YT all ship models in this episode are 1/2400 scale ships from GHQ. ghqmodels.com.
@@LittleWarsTV thank you ,can you do Midway next? I need to see how carrier work.
Thank you
What about the fighting ON the island for the airfield?
May I ask will there be more videos on this game
No "Move aside, I am coming through. This is Ching Lee!"
Hey guys, gotta few noob questions. How did you find/make those torpedoes? Also, do any of you guys know a good reference for wwii naval combat in the pacific? Thanks!
Steve made the torpedo markers for the game and will likely do a tutorial on them at some point. As for references, there are a number of good options. A classic is Morison’s “Two Ocean War.” It covers Atlantic and Pacific operations but most of it is Pacific related and is a fine single volume account. If you are willing to go with multiple volumes, Ian Toll’s Pacific War Trilogy is an excellent choice. Finally, if you want to focus on the Solomon’s campaign specifically, Hornfischer’s “Neptune’s Inferno” would be a hard choice to beat. Thanks for watching and hope this helps!
Who the hell thought that it was good idea to have ships sitting at anchor? Didn't it seem that was Pearl Harbor 2?
Better command could have mitigated casualties in every engagement in history chaps
Solomon islands were most famous for malaria and headhunters before Japan decided Guadalcanal would make a fine base to interdict allied convoys to Australia. It's not exactly a garden spot.
Which miniatures did you use for this please?
What size table was this played on?
What brand are they? Hallmark? And where did you buy them?
Japan was highly successful due to their night fighting
They trained very hard to fight at night and took out many ailled ships at night time operations
What brand is it? Im thinking about building a fleet after finishing my 6mm waterloo project
Where did you get the minifigs
Question where to get ships?
Are you guys swingers? what’s with the pineapples?
As the Mighty Jingles will say, "That's a paddling."
Also, it is a shame you guys did not use a Japanese naval song.
ruclips.net/video/A75AQgDBtJI/видео.html
Also, the Hiei is pronounced Hee-aye.
And final note, for the Japanese's players, your performance was dishonorable.
Saving Private Ryan was inspired by the Nyland Brothers not the Sullivans
What game system is this?
I wish i could see that point less pre battle discussion because you can't say it is the best and not show it even if it does not matter.
It may have been a joke...
Historical Thought - Was Kurita " the HAWK" the commander of the Japanese at Battle of Savo Island (night cruiser action) the SAME commander - Kurita - that lead at Leyte Gulf action off Samar against "Taffy 3" ??? In both battles he chose to RETREAT from action instead of ADVANCE into the Allies weaker "transports" where their loss would have WON these battles !!! :-0
PA for life
Hiei - Pronounced 'Hi-eye' means fast/quickly
it was a touch unfair to let the Americans change the historical deployment but compel the Japanese to stick to theirs.
Yeah, but there is no way to replicate the surprise the US had
52,234 views ... I didn't think there were that many war gamers in the world ...
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It's a bigger hobby than you think!
@@LittleWarsTV I guess so.
I started war gaming in the '60's with Avalon Hill games I played with my brother and my Jr. ROTC buddies from High School. Me and my buddies went in the military but when we got out we started playing again. One of them ended up owning a military hobbies store. We'd all gather there just before closing on Friday nights - then go a couple of doors down in this strip mall to a bar where we'd drink beer until 0200 the next morning and solve all the worlds problems. Then we'd go to Denny's and have breakfast while we solved any that might remain. We'd sleep all day - and then Saturday evening we'd gather and one of the guys places and play games all Saturday night.
Women did that group in ... one by one they fell by the wayside of matrimony and after a while their wives wouldn't let them go play with the boys any more ...
A couple of the guys had developed gaming systems and we might play those. We'd set up a hex map on a table and play out some game for months on Saturday nights.
We also had ancients campaigns we played with miniatures. We had one of those on the Fall of Rome and another on Alexander's Successors. Then we had one off games with Napoleonic's or Modern miniatures.
We also had compass and protractor Naval games - which would sometimes be fought out like in this video once a battle happened. Three maps - judge and two sides. Each side drew their moves on velum then handed it to the judge who transferred the moves to the Master Map and reported what was seen. We tried to fight the Falklands War while it was happening with some modern rules but it was to big for us. I spent 12 hours doing the search plots for the Argentinian Air Force ... so we gave up on that but we fought a lot of smaller engagements out.
We had a round robin using the one guys naval system of the Worlds WWII Navies with the winner going on. French vs. Italians. Italians vs. British. British vs. Germans. Germans vs. Americans. Americans vs. Japanese. Our decorations weren't as elaborate as yours. We used styrofoam peanuts for smoke screens and the ships were just half inch pieces of card board with the ships name on them. All the hits info was keep on paper. Just as we had with Jutland we played on the floor of that hobby shop a lot after it closed for the day but also on a table at one of the guys houses.
One guy had a France 1940 game he developed. Played on a hex map. Infantry Corp and Armored Division counters. That was another marathon game played over months. We played out different scenarios and the only way the Allies won was if the Belgians allowed the British and French to come in and set up. With a line of French Infantry Corps going through the Ardennes and tying into the Maginot Line - the Germans ground themselves up against that. Oh - and the RAF had to make a full commitment of it's aircraft to the Battle on the Continent instead of keeping them all in reserve.
Anyway ... yeah ... brings back memories of my younger days.
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first comment
Where are the British, Australian and Dutch ships. I feel they are not represented. it was and allied cooperation isn't it?
I don't think they were present at this battle.
The the brits, aussies and the orange were there all right, look up battle of the java sea...
Chris hyde jhyde Wrong battle, mate. The battle fought in this wargame was the Second Battle of Savo Island (aka Battle of Cape Esperance). In the First Battle of Savo Island, allied forces were led by a UK admiral and did include commonwealth forces.
Guadalcanal was a long campaign with many battles. It might help your case if you pointed out exactly the battles to which you refer (especially any battles that contained Dutch warships-this could be educational for us).
dark foreground + bright background = bad filming
Outdoors = hard!
It’s pronounced Hiei (He A).
whatever happens.....the US NAvy always needs to win?.....
this would make a great show on the history channel if you removed 90% of the history talk and focused on family drama and life problems instead,
Hahah indeed. Our History Channel credentials would improve dramatically if this naval game resulted in a search for lost Nazi gold, ancient aliens, or perhaps the discovery of "swamp people."
If you're going to be back lighting your video scenes in bright sunlight, please learn to some type of fill light so we can see what's going on.
Manure? Don't be so SUBURBAN.
1/3 of video is a historical overview? People know the general history of the battle, I wish you had spent that time talking about how the game mode is going to work. In the future please try and limit the historical talk and instead put more of the gaming aspects into the video. At least how the history is going to affect the setup of the game. Jeez, you even brought in the Sullivan brothers, which are pretty irrelevant to the battle and the game setup.
Season 2 is going to include a bit less history and a bit more gaming. But we do still want to offer at least some "historical content" component to the main episodes.
@@LittleWarsTV Well to be honest I watched more videos after this comment, and I think you have about the right amount of history.:) Perhaps just a but more targeted, leaving out the broad strokes of a war and stick to the more direct history that had an impact on the actual battle. For instance the Marengo series was great, but you started it by talking about when Napoleon took command of France. I wish it had been more focused about the Italian campaign in Northern Italy with perhaps an equal emphasis on what the Austrians were doing. (more people know the Napoleon history than the Austrian side)
As an Iowan I get tired of hearing about the Sullivan brothers. They are at /every/ museum it seems. Saw them in Texas even!
Lastly, yes please talk more about the formations the miniatures represent.
so much blather; so little gaming . . .