Even outside of sa, the vast number of films where a man rises to greatness through the death/kidnapping/exploitation of a woman is super eye-roll inducing. It’s a major trope and once you become aware of it, it’s hard not to notice it in practically every action movie.
omg i love your chanel, so cool to see you like this type of film commentary 💜 And also yeah your super on point here, Liam Neeson has made like a ton of movies where his character has his wife, and then daughter, kidnaped/ kept away from him as a "plot" device for the movie. At this point, watching these kinds of movies feels quite boring. *omg lol i hadn't finished the video when i first watched, just in the end i noticed she had already mentioned that movie
It literally is the backbone of the action genre. Somehow, women are the ultimate, irrelevant victim that exists to progress the male protagonist, seductive villain that exists to distract the male protagonist, and hot towel that exists as the reward for the male protagonist all in one. Isn’t it great being a woman 🤡 🤡
The point of these films isn't that the victim is irrelevant, but that the victim is important enough to justify extreme acts of violence in their defense. The male hero represents a male focused view of respecting and protecting women against bad men unworthy of even being alive.
I resonate with the observation you made about how female directors do not show SA scenes in their movies because it's not necessary. It made me think of this Tunisian film directed by a woman called Beauty and the Dogs, which is about a woman who is trying to seek justice after she was sexually assaulted by police officers. The film does not show the SA scene but shows the events immediately afterwards and the ordeal the victim goes through reporting the crime. It's so obvious the victim is so traumatized by what happened that you don't need to see the rape scene. I think this shows that female directors are better at dealing with this subject matter in films in a respectful, sensitive way.
a quick addition! megan fox herself is bisexual but she's said in interviews that she played jennifer check as a deeply closeted lesbian in jennifer's body. so while the line does imply bisexuality, megan fox believes jennifer to be a lesbian. obviously megan's interpretation isn't confirmed, but i thought it was interesting!
@@s1ckgirl the actor is just as much a part of the process of creating a character as the writers are - writing can only go so far. performance elevates text and text elevates performance. while the writers may have intended for jennifer to be bisexual, megan fox intended for her to be a closeted lesbian, and the movie could be interpreted either way. not everything that's written is 100% in stone - writers can change their minds all the time, as can actors. plus, writers often times will just let their actors improvise on set, which means that some characteristics of the character are completely up to the actor. it's a collaborative process. the act of creation is the act of collaborating with other people
The rape scenes in 13 Reasons Why were completely unnecessary and felt like trauma pornography. It was extremely triggering and I had to force myself to continue the series. Game of Thrones is another perpetrator of this with the SA scenes.
Agreed. I didn't watch 13 Reasons Why but I stopped watching GoT bc of the gratuitous scenes of r4pe and female harming as a whole. Sansa's scene, for example, felt SO exploitative and gross.
I couldn’t watch GoT for that. It was SO triggering. Running across clips was enough even though I watched one episode it was enough for me to go “nope!”. It was SUPER frustrating for me because I love fantasy and dragons and had some friends teasing me about being a mother of dragons lol. So it should’ve been up my alley, but nah…not watching that sh!t.
@@sonorasgirl exactly. and the kicker was when the writers literally tried to justify Sansas SA, making her say "if it wasn't for ramsy, I would have stayed a little bird foreve." like no. literally. no.
especially considering how the hannah one didn’t even happen in the book. she was sexually assaulted, but the author made it seem like she instigated it in a way, which was confusing, and that’s my main problem with the show. the book was bad enough that they added extra graphic scenes to try to make hannah’s over all selfishness and blame of everyone but herself more justified
"I think that SA scenes are often completely unnecessary" period. I waited 2 years for "Promising Young Woman" and it nailed it. It fucking nailed speaking of it, showing the leading up to it, but NEVER showed SA in the works and didnt even mention the word "rape" ONCE. Yet it showed how willing SA can make you to do the worst things possible to offenders and yourself as a sacrifice. Ngl, i've wanted to deliberately die, so that my attackers could get charged, because at least murder gets taken seriously...I felt a sense of justice for my own tragedy. And that made it the perfect female revenge movie for me.
Reading this, I had the thought of “If it is not onscreen, it didn’t happen “ Not sure if it would be a bad habit of decades of being shown EVERYTHING by moviemakers, or something else...
There's just no reason to show SA on anything unless you're a dickhead that wants to use garbage shock value, you're someone that doesn't know what a scene like that can make others feel, especially SA victims or you actually enjoy scenes like that which reason enough for anyone to be around someone like that, because gross
"girls are more touch oriented and boys are more sight oriented" ORRR girls just know how to control themselves! We're not fuckin blind, we just know how to not gawk.
we're actually punished for acting "incorrectly" in society and told to keep things like that under wraps as well. men are encouraged to gawk and taught it's normal for them to. women are taught how to control themselves, and men aren't, basically.
@@peiithos Pretty much. I think it’s quite funny when people make excuses for guys saying it’s their nature to look, when it’s actually everyone’s nature to look because it’s human nature. It’s just one gender is taught to control certain behaviors while the other isn’t. I know this for a fact because regardless of gender, when people aren’t raised with healthy boundaries, they are uncontrolled, but when people are raised with healthy boundaries, they control.
It was only recently someone made me realise that the directors get to watch these sex scenes in full, over multiple takes, and they get to keep every take they want, and that made it all so much more horrifying to me.
For what? What exactly are they even going to do with that? It's not like it's full-blown porn. In sex scenes actors don't actually do any penetration. And they'll have a special little skin tight skin color piece of cloth over the genitalia so it doesn't even rub against each other. They also have a special trainer to help them get used to the action for that scene since of course they're pretending to have sex or in the case of sexual assault, pretend to rate somebody in a scene. Both actors will typically be uncomfortable with it. They're typically prepared and given these special costs. And of course any movies going to have their multiple takes. But the fact that the director's keep it is bizarre. Like if they're specifically only keeping these takes then that is really bizarre. Cuz I really don't understand what they're going to get out of that. Two pieces of cloth rubbing against each other? I mean that's not to say that in a lot of sections in certain movies that the actors aren't completely naked. But they're generals are never actually touching. Their genitals are covered up, and usually they're in a position and the camera is in a position where that is not shown as to not break the immersion. At most their hip is hitting the other actors hit. But Jenna knows never actually touch. And as you may have seen in any naked scene in a film, you can never see the genitalia no matter how close to their pelvis the camera may get. Even with the guys you don't see any dangling testicles. , There are some exceptions, but typically sex scenes or nude scenes are not going to reveal any genitalia either using camera positions and the actors physical position plus the cloth. I mean, I guess there is that psychological factor. But it's just so weird. Whatever they're getting from those takes they would probably get a better feeling from just watching actual porn. There's literally nothing you can get out of that other than well what the scene supposed to make you feel in the movie. I'm not saying you're lying. By no means am I saying that. I'm just saying is that it's true, that is really really bizarre. Especially given what the actors got to go through and even wear when making those scenes. Unless these directors are making straight up erotica, there's never going to be any actual penetration in sex scenes. And even if they were making erotica, well that's basically equivalent to porn but with a story. So penetration would supposed to happen, and it would supposed to be on camera. That's what makes it an erotica versus a regular sex scene in a film. But if you're literally just talking about regular sex scenes in a film, there's literally nothing showing other than ass cheeks and maybe the woman's tits and that's it. Genitalia's never shown, testicles are never seen dangling unless it's a nude scene for comedy reasons, and their genitals never actually touch and are covered up. So it must be some sort of weird psychological kink. Cuz I literally can't even comprehend what pleasure somebody will get out of that that they wouldn't get out of regular porn.
Imagine having to portray it. You being there in the act... victim or abuser, it's both equally horrific to put a person in that role... in that headspace... :/
Such a good thing that there are now sex scenes directors who are all about consent and safe sex scene practices… which is also horrifying because its just so recent…
it still surprises me that people looked SO shallowly into Jennifer's Body. like, that's... exactly what they're trying to avoid! still a wonderful video, i love love love it.
The marketing was the problem. I watched a video recently where someone reviewed the issue and it was 100% marketed as a titillating chance to see Megan Fox naked and pretty much nothing else. So while the film was executed well, the marketing misled audiences and caused a lot of confusion and disappointment. People got a first impression from the trailers and never really changed their minds even when the film itself was much deeper.
there's kind of a revisionist history with jennifer's body going on along with it's resurgence. yeah, it got a lot of unfair misogynistic reviews but the dialogue and pacing was v clunky and bogged it down. it was a little too cheesy/comedic and for a lot of people the ending was unsatisfying after everything. the concept is amazing though
@@IshtarNike there's an awesome interview here on youtube of Diablo Cody and Megan Fox talking about the whole process of making the movie and how they were wronged by the producers and the marketing team, they deserved so much better
The story of Teeth never comforted me like it seems to other women because the only way she manages to get “revenge” or to stop the perpetrators is to allow herself to be violated in the first place :/
i feel like she rose above the violation? like she became a femme fatale and was like i’m gonna give you something you think you want you think you love and completely RUIN it for you
Also just as a note, that idea of men being more visual was brought up by a professor in my COLLEGE. When I brought up women are visual too, and might get “lustful thoughts” (not my idea, I was just going by what he was saying) by looking at an attractive person, he was genuinely surprised, like he hadn’t considered it. This happened ten years ago. SMH
@@pheonixrises11 yeah, over 70% of our sensory intake is vision. But our society treats men as humans and women as another species, and that is how we get ridiculus phrases like "men are visual creatures" as if women aren't, to justify irresposability.
@@wiggilytaco7570 Real, it's awful how governments ban self-defense weapons like that when they literally *only* harm the person who attempts to commit r^pe.
"Jennifer's Body" is so underrated. I remember going to see it in the cinema back when it was first released, and there was scarcely anyone in my screening. I'm glad that it's developed a cult following in subsequent years.
I luvvvvvvv Jennifer's body but what I hate is that ppl are like yea fuck men but every guy Jennifer attacked didn't deserve it instead of going after then men who turned her into a demon she went after innocent guys and that sucks
i still think the dialogue in that movie bogs it down a lot but that concept is perfect. if someone remade it with a less comical tone (blasphemy, i know) i think it'd be even better.
I knew my husband was the one for me when we watched Teeth back in 2008 and he absolutely loved it. He was rooting for another guy's penis to be bitten off while the other guys in the room were simply horrified. They weren't as bothered by the SA of Dawn mind you, just the penis being mutilated.
I don't think being horrified makes them bad in any way though. I'm a cis woman and I had to stop watching the movie after seeing a severed penis on the ground... I can acknowledge that the piece of shit rapist deserved it without wanting to see it...
I think female directors is HUGE. I have a history of SA and the only shows I can watch dealing with that topic were directed by women. It’s possibly a bias, but I usually don’t know until after when I’m like huh…that didn’t give me a full on panic attack- who directed this? Oh, yup, makes sense
I think the lack of community in Teeth isn't unrealistic to women, especially those in puritanical contexts. The patriarchy isolates us from each other. I've hard to learn to grieve the relationships that could've been positive in my life if it wasn't for that. Also, the sacrifice is a very direct SA metaphor. She's crying and begging them to stop, they're laughing...
that’s a very good point, i think the lack of community would be a bad portrayal in most other contexts, but it’s very accurate to my experience in a semi-strict religious environment. even if you aren’t a survivor of SA specifically, talking about other forms of abuse and sex in general is highly discouraged, so it just leaves you feeling lost and alone.
@Lunasuji What do you mean you've had to grieve relationships that could have been positive? The patriarchy turned yall against each other? I'm so sorry. Try and rekindle these relationships, you will regret it if you dont.
I think culturally we needed some kind of folklore story to teach kids like A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night. Instilling a fear that if you harm someone sexually (or even just violently), a female vampire will haunt you and punish you. Just like consequences in real life. Just like how we tell kids to be good or Santa won't put you on the Good List or the Boogey Man will get you as an incentive to make kids behave.
Raold Dahl wrote a version of Little Red Riding hood and its absolutely my favourite version (she gets her revenge) . You should look it up! He wrote a whole book called Roald Dahls revolting rhymes, maybe more are like this!
our country has those ghost stories (lady dressed in white wailing, dont approach, do not look at her direction etc.) and the rate of SA is still pretty high here 😅😅😅
@@cammie4923just like Jennifer's body, Charlie and the chocolate factory movie was and still is hated to this day. While being more accurate to the book
I thought Jennifer's body was great when it first came out but since I am a woman I was looking at the metaphorical meaning it was portraying. Megan fox was chastised for pretty much everything she did due to her beauty and not only by men by women as well . This is horrible ! She has always been outspoken about this toxic behavior and double standards that are pretty much abuse ,and the sexual exploitation of women .
One bit abt the sacrifice scene in jennifers body that stuck w me since first viewing was how even though jennifer went in the bands van "semi-willingly" she quickly realizes how much Danger she is in being a teen girl alone w those men and she lies about her se x ual experience as a way to escape and this is what dooms her Tl;dr: forever impacted at how jennifers body is constructed to make the hypesexualization of jennifer check what dooms her and saves her at the same time (much like her relationship with needy)
And also her telling them she was a virgin is also great commentary on how ppl think sexually promiscuous or just sexually actively girls deserve the sexual harassment and assault they get. Honestly when she was crying in the van, my heart broke 💔
I think it's interesting how the main character in Jennifer's Body and the main character in I Spit On Your Grave share the same name. Could be seen as a metacritic of the genre itself, as well as rape culture.
I think you should also look into Mad Max: Fury Road. It's not a horror, but still it treats the theme of sexual assault respectfully, and focusing on the women reclaiming their agency. At no point in the movie do we see the women being assaulted, but we can deduce what happened to them by the fact that they're made to wear very little clothing, two of them are pregnant, and their recurring phrase "we are not things". As a matter of fact, they ignite the plot: the story starts with them trying to escape their abuser with the help of another woman, thus highlighting the importance of female solidarity. It's the first movie I saw where rape wasn't treated as pseudo-porn, and the focus was entirely on the agency of the victims, I highly recommend it
Another interesting point in Jennifer’s body is how after her sacrifice, the one who takes on the consequences of this heinous act is not the perpetrators but Jennifer herself. It’s a very poignant commentary on the treatment of victims in our societies and judicial systems. And I love this video a lot, you are a wonderful creator and I enjoyed your perspective!
I watched Teeth with a mix of college friends and the hard divide between the girls and the guys reaction was honestly kinda startling. every girl was excited by each kill and came away wishing that we could have that power and the guys were just terrified and scared. honestly their reaction made me question the kind of guys i was hanging out with.
I wouldn’t be too harsh on them, it’s probably just sympathy. While the dudes definitely deserved it in the movie, it’s hard to imagine that without imagining you having your own junk bitten off, therefore causing some discomfort emotionally from that. Obviously you’re a better judge of their character than I am though, obviously I don’t know more about them than you because you’re the one who knows them. I’m just trying to provide an alternate explanation for them being freaked out.
I'm sorry. If yall were CHEERING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IRL, I get why they'd be scared that you see them as r--ists. But if you weren't, and they still had that reaction, I'd question it.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 idk how you got we were "CHEERING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IRL" but we were talking about how much safer we would feel with a defense like that and were excited when a r--ist got consequences.
@lilaclolapop ok my bad I misinterpreted. I read it too fast. It is uncomfortable and alienating when women say that though. I'm not really sure what to say in that situation. Not blaming you at all. Just telling you my point of view. Like I said, if you weren't, then yeah i don't really get their reaction
SA scenes will always remind me of an art class I had in university. My male professor decided it was a good idea to show us this movie which featured a violent and graphic r*pe scene and as a survivor of that myself it made me freeze in my seat. I took up the courage to write my professor about my experience and how other female students felt about it and looking back on his response I don't think he truly understood the significant impact it had on the female students (and male ones who were shocked) he told me he'd give out a warning in the future and that he himself worked with a social group that helped out victims of SA...in my coming semesters I kind of felt like this prof in particular had a very high opinion of himself and that he had a very narrow understanding of 'feminism'. Your video was really well done
Did we go to the same university? Not sure why, but this very narrow-minded view of social justice, feminism, and anti-racism as promoted on campus, and it caused tension because there was no room for any other thought. Though it was pretty funny because the people who followed this narrow-minded Brie often came off as being the things they were “fighting against”. I’m a bit surprised that your professor responded the way he did, but didn’t have a trigger warning in the first place.
Horror and Comedy are the two genres i think would benefit the most from a more diverse, female, poc, etc view and take. There's so many experiences, existences, that could add SO much to narratives in these films. It's frustrating, really.
16:32 We NEED to talk about this more. I went to get an IUD at 19 because I bled for two months straight. My OB said that it would be a tiny pinch. The amount of pain I was in for those few minutes was comparable to the pain I was in when I had a 5mm kidney stone. Thank god it only lasted a few minutes, I would have lost it. I actually involuntarily screamed, and I have a very good pain tolerance. WHY do they not offer any kind of actual pain medication? Tylenol and Ibuprofen do absolutely nothing for that level of pain. If a man had to have that same procedure, they would absolutely put him under completely. 🙄
@@mintkit1064 Copper IUDs are NOT recommended for people with endometriosis. You are most likely a better fit for a hormonal IUD. I’m pretty sure I took either Tylenol or Ibuprofen beforehand. It was still incredibly painful. I recommend taking something stronger if you have it available to you. If weed is legal where you are, a small dose of edibles might help a lot. Worst case scenario, BEG your OB for something stronger and emphasize that you have endo.
@@mintkit1064 hey, I have endo, and an IUD, and definitely talk to your doc first - copper ones make it worse. I have a mirena, but I know the particulars should be discussed with your doc. Sooo…the pain… My two cents - it was absolutely terrible getting it inserted. Find a good gyno who will take your pain seriously, and see what pain options they have. I was told it would be a pinch too, and I ended up almost blacking out and being given a cloth to bite while crushing a nurses’ hand. Then I couldn’t walk well after, and nearly passed out walking out. Ngl, cause I know OTC pain killers don’t work I went home and had a VERY stiff drink. HOWEVER. It was still worth it to me - I haven’t had cramps or a period in 4 years now and it’s bloody (😉) amazing.
My IUD wasn't a big deal but my cervical biopsy was HORRIBLE. It was the worse pain I've ever experienced, way worse than even having a genital piercing. It was ridiculous that I was told it'd just pinch a little.
Super late reply but: I also have an IUD but I'm not American and went to a midwife (I think that's the word) to get it done, who demanded I was on my period for the procedure. On your period, your cervix is slightly open naturally, which allows them to pop the IUD in without interference. In the US, I've heard that doctors use a needle-like device to open up the cervix. That sounds insanely painful and it's unnecessary!
One of the few films by a male director that I feel like actually treats SA seriously and respectfully is Perfect Blue by Satoshi Kon. It can get graphic when portraying the SA, so please don’t watch it if you don’t want to see that, but specifically earlier in the film there’s a pseudo SA scene that the main character experiences as an actress “acting out” a SA scene (yes, the film is very much into blending reality and fiction). Even though she (presumably, it’s really hard to tell with this film) wasn’t SA’d at that point in the story, the exploitation of her body and lack of autonomy when trying to break into the film industry was truly palpable. It shows how even the tenants of consent are totally warped when it comes to sèx, especially in fiction/the film industry. She was “consenting” to the male director and producers objectifying her body and exploiting her trust in order to push back against another male dominant industry that defined her independence and her femininity. They didn’t once consider her comfort, and were mostly focused on getting the shots in painfully intimate detail, while the film’s camera is focused on her increasingly despaired expressions. At a later point in the film, someone (possibly her) literally gouges out the director’s eyes and after placing her idol song in an elevator. It’s where I first learned about the male gaze, even though I had no idea what that even was at the time.
I love this movie.. the depiction is extremely hard to watch and I agree if it is triggering I would still watch the movie and skip that scene because it's a really great movie- but yeah I think it helps to understand the exploitation of women and how even in acting out a depiction of SA it can cause real trauma especially if you are made to repeat it multiple times...
It also seems like the chador, hijab and other coverings in the Western world are seen as like “oppressive” and thus women who wear them are seen as meek, weak, and/or controlled. So I love that it also subverts that very Western feminist idea. Showing that through choice it is representative of power and agency. I don’t know if that was intentional but it came to mind while watching.
it's only powerful if they are wearing it because they want to, you know damn well there are countries Islamic that ban women from not wearing hijab or burka from the stage of puberty and up, and parents who force their daughters to wear it..
As a woman who actually grew up in the middle east I find this to be a really bizarre take tbh. The head coverings absolutely ARE oppressive and compulsory and in some places if you don't wear one men will treat you like a whore and be nasty to you *in public*. Some will even commit horrible assault in groups on women they think are impure or showing too much or not being "modest". It's a good reason why you always want a male person escorting you most places. It's not "empowering", it's just another example of men forcing cultural attitudes on women because they're afraid of our bodies.
Feeling compelled to wear that in very hot temperatures for any reason is not exactly empowering. Think about how uncomfortable that must be and what other conditions (danger) must make it worth it
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night is one of my favorite movies! It's not for everyone, but I love it. I like your videos. I'm not a woman but I'm perceived like one. I know its hard to be inclusive about such gendered topics but I'm glad you try.
Many of the strongest feminists (and other strong, smart women I know), didn't necessarily start their lives out as women. I'm just so glad you're here for some good conversations!
I truly appreciate films that tackle SA without graphically depicting it. Say what you will about "Violation" (an intensely gore filled nightmare of a film): it's ability to utilize this gore during the revenge scene is pretty amazing when contrasted with the SA scene: a scene that is so understated and visually creative but so realistic in depicting SA as something that more often than not is committed by someone we know. It's brutal in that it is nonconsensual, it's violence lies in its manipulation rather than a graphic show of the act. It also does not turn the victim into a hero: she is a character filled with flaws and instability. No one has to be a perfect angel to experience the horror of sexual assault. The way in which the SA scene was filmed also seems to seek to prompt the viewer to ask "was it really SA?" just as so many survivors are questioned about in real life.
I watched Jennifer’s Body for the first time only about a year ago, and it has swiftly become one of my favorite movies ever. While my personal connection to it is less with the SA plot lines and more identification with the messy toxicity of female friendships, I always love to see it discussed in its many complexities
20:00 honestly, one thing I actually loved about Teeth was the absence of community. Because growing up in a strict religious environment, I had no one to turn to when I started to have feelings I felt were “impure”. All of the women I knew either wouldn’t feel comfortable discussing it, or actively supported that harmful culture (like Dawn’s friend). When you grow up in a culture that shames women and their bodies, it leads to your isolation, and feeling so alone and dirty and sinful even when you’re surrounded by the people who are supposed to support you. And the one woman Dawn was supposed to be able to turn to, her mother, dies due to the negligence of another harmful man (and if you like the interpretation of the smokestacks, patriarchy as a whole). I would say Teeth is one of those movies that definitely one portrays the experiences of some people, not everyone. Many people find it inauthentic and too bleak, but to me it was ugly, lonely, heart wrenching, and the most god-honest truthful movie I’d ever seen. While for the life of me, I could never relate to Jennifer’s Body (even though I love it as a movie)
i just think that the fact that they would even dare to make actual r* scenes is just disgusting to me. i think you can address r* without actually making the actors act out a horrible scene. like do people not see anything morally wrong there?
I have this problem with sex scenes in movies in general. I'm here to watch a movie, not a porno. Nothing more uncomfortable than having to unexpectedly watch a porno with your parents.
@@Oceaan25 yeah, in 90% of the movies sex scenes add nothing to the plot, just a reward for the weirdos, and an awkward experience for all of us normal people
@@Oceaan25yeah agreed it's rare that it adds anything - if you watch Poor Things that recently came out however that's a great example of it being used in a way that's fun and adds to the story
05:30 singlehandedly the fact that the SA scene was TWENTY FIVE MINUTES long made me want to cry this is so uncomfortable. SA scenes SHOULDN'T be shown at all great video
I met Amanda Seyfried at a press event around the time Jennifer's Body came out and told her I loved the movie - it was my favorite of hers. She smiled and said "really??" and it was like the sun came out. I'll always have that moment close to my heart. I'm so glad it meant so much to them, and I'm so glad how much it means to the people who actually paid attention.
I have been writing a story about my character who got SAed brutally and this discussion was spot on. I don't really write the assault because it's sort of traumatic for me and I won't feel comfortable watching or reading graphically long assault scenes. I moreso write her feelings after it. How she coped with it and how her family and society seemed to shun her (since this piece is also kind of set in the 20th century.) And how she felt truly and utterly abandoned. As someone who was SAed in their childhood, I really don't appreciate the fetishization of women's pain. I don't.
@mmmm yeah As someone who also dealt with SA in childhood, i appreciate writers like you who understand how approach a topic like that without "glorifying" the violation. I'm sorry you also went through it, it's wrong. If you decide to publish/share your story someday, I look forward to reading it. I wish you the best in your writing endeavors
Invisible Man and Fresh could also enter into a category revenge kind of story in which the women's abuse is not explicitely shown on screen and we deal with the trauma of those situations. Fresh is more of a dark comedy than anything else but I found myself connecting a lot with how the women that were trapped were being affected, and all of that while keeping the horror aspect (gore mainly) to a surprising minimum. As a viewer we all understand what our protagonists go through and be on their side as they do everything they can to take down their abusers. I made a video about this as well, but yours is so much well informed about the history behind this subgenre that I didn't know about.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259it's been a while since ive seen it, but from what I can remember it's about a girl who has had 0 success on dating apps, but when she meets some guy at the store she falls for him and they eventually start dating. after a long time of them being together, ‼️spoilers‼️he traps her in his house and she learns that he kills people and turns them into meat. she eventually ends up killing him alongside the help of another woman
I remember seeing I spit on your grave as a tween, and it was so horrifying, and as an adult I think the horror came from the realism, her surviving and being full of rage at the act, and her actions have a relatability to them. It feels like the question is “what would you do?”
I feel like the movie was just relishing in her assault. They didn't need it to be so unbelievably graphic in the r scene. It's a movie I can never watch again, as a victim myself. I understand the "yes go get your revenge!" Idea, but I think they were unnecessarily interested in including the r scenes. An r scene isn't pleasant, but it doesn't always ruin a movie or show for me. But ISOYG is... Insane
I was a freshman in college when Jennifer's Body came out, and the only reason I watched it was because my older brother recommended it to me. I was not interested in watching it because of the terrible marketing and ironically that's why my brother bought it. He said I should watch it, and he definitely saw the hesitation on my face because he said, "It's not at all what you think it is. You'll like it. It's a good movie." And I absolutely did like it, so I'm very glad that it's getting recognition now with the viewers it was meant for.
I also think in Jennifer’s Body you could look at women victim experiences what the men endure. The foreign exchange kid lost and helpless in the middle of the night, the jock mourning and in pain, and the goth kid with a crush, and the bf who’s tempted away. If you reverse the roles these are also women victim stories. Being assaulted in night walks, having men take advantage of you when you’re sad, when you catch feelings, and when you’re vulnerable in a low point of a relationship. I’m not sure if anyone else saw that but although I loved Jennifer I felt bad for the victims bc they weren’t all lusting for her solely they were scared, sad, trusting, and confused which makes sense. I could be looking too much into that tho. Jennifer’s Body is so much more than revenge p*rn. It’s so good.
Exactly what I was thinking when I first watched it! I was like "damn, that foreign exchange student was just lost," but then I'd connect it to afab experiences at night walking alone, etc, etc. The role switching is interesting because yes, the victims are distressed like the grieving jock, but it's so crazy how a hot girl can just fix their problems, you know? They completely let their guard down even with all the red flags before the making out part.
@@alivenotwell YES exactly and it's something women tend to do with men. We let our guard down and fall victim to not only strangers but men we know and are a part of our everyday life. The movie was truly brilliant looking back on it.
I always found it so unnecessary to show SA scenes in a movie, it's purely for shock value. There are ways to communicate SA that don't include showing actors in graphic scenes, other ways that can hit just as hard.
I must say, it always made me so sad when Jennifer was in the woods crying before they killed her. Diablo Cody wrote such a great film, perfectly humorous in a dark and horrific way, while talking about real topics for women. That film was for the girls and the gays, cause straight men didn’t understand it
As an SA survivor, when SA becomes the entirety of a female character’s personality, you can really see what kind of person is behind the pen. Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson portrays what SA can do to someone with no support system; Melinda didn’t want revenge for revenge sake, just to get rid of her attacker. She wanted to become whole again by whatever means she could. I’m the end she does threaten her attacker into submission, but has to live with the trauma she’s endured. Had Teeth been overseen by a woman, I think a similar catharsis could have been reached as in Speak. I still love teeth, it’s one of my favourites, but I feel like it had a lot of potential to tell a great story that was squandered for the sake of SA/seggsual scenes. Great video, I wholeheartedly agree with your takes ❤
I first saw Jennifer's body when I was 10. It was cuz of that panic at the disco song. I first thought it was some cheeky type of horror nope. It felt very disturbing like I was watching parasite. I was just floored and I wish more guys would talk about this movie.
My older brother was always disturbed by Jennifer's Body and Teeth and he's a complete gentleman type so I'm not sure what to take from it other than I'm glad some men saw the actual horror in those movies
I think he's safe tbh. Not everyone's comfortable with horror and gore no matter the message. And I think just like women usually are uncomfortable watching sa scenes, guys would naturally be uncomfortable watching someone's penis be bitten or cut off. Not because of the reasons, but because they share that body part. You know, like it's uncomfortable to watch someone break their leg.
Jennifer's Body was a comedy but that one scene is hard to watch, the one where she dies. Kinda funny but mostly sad. Teeth is just sad. I feel so bad for her. JB is funny though, Megan's best role idk of it was bad direction and not her fault but she sucked in tmnt
I find it interesting that female directors rarely feel the need to show SA but almost all male directors who talk about SA show SA. I do believe that also goes along with most men need to see the bad thing to believe the bad thing. If women tell a story about their assault, it is rarely believed and woman are often accused of lying because they have “no proof”
Wait, We’re supposed to be given pain meds during IUD insertion? You might want to do a video on this, I couldn’t find any feminist lenses on this, only storytimes
Yeah I wish that was the norm. When I went to get an IUD it was extremely painful, my vision was blurry and had black spots in my peripherals, as I fought of passing out. My cervix muscle was so constricted they could not even get the tool in that’s suppose to measure my uterus before IUD insertion. After stabbing and restabbing my cervix for thirty minutes, I was left in a room alone, drenched in sweat and trying to put my pants on without falling to the floor as my legs continued to shake, and were to weak to support me. I never tried again. The experience was such a nightmare.
I was given advil but nit enough time for it to kick in and God it was still horrible. I had trouble standing and it was painful, the advil kicked in much after the fact and wasn't even strong enough to help the pain. I bled afterwards too, and I'm so mortified of getting it taken out I just don't want to because I don't want to go through that again.
I saw Jennifer's Body when I was fresh out of high school and I remember being harassed online because I was an afab individual speaking out about a film that many male members of the horror community were ridiculing. It was a very harrowing experience for me and it soured me to the horror community for many years and now I wish that some of those men could ask themselves why this particular film meant so much to an afab individual. Also your euphemisms for the p during the Teeth segment had me howling. I had to send this video to a friend solely based on the "disco stick" moment. You have earned a subscriber.
I'm sorry. People can be very cruel. Same was true for fans of The Amazing Spiderman 2012, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Suicide Squad 2016, Michael bay tmnt, Batman v Superman, Twilight, TMNT II Secret of the Ooze and Jennifer's Body. They are all hated and their opinion is deemed invalid. I'm sorry. Communities can be toxic.
Wonderful video! I actually just got done writing an analysis essay on Jennifer's Body (more specifically on how a box-office blowout has now turned into a cult classic, poor marketing, and how this film was kind pro-feminist/pro-LGBTQ+/and pro-survivor- kinda making what we now define as "good for her" movies
Revenge is another really interesting feminist take on SA. It definitely delves into some less realistic aspects but it's really interesting how the film makers frame the male and female bodies. This video was great!
every time I see something mention the pain of IUD insertion I feel a resurgence of my indignance and anger. I’ve gone through multiple very painful experiences, and IUD is definitely one of the top ones despite it being presented as “just uncomfortable”. I’ve even gotten nightmares about it since it took me so off-guard.
Slams on the table and knocks everything over in excitement (my first reaction when I saw this uploaded) I will say I cannot watch all movies/tv shows that have this theme/topic but I absolutely LOVE and am obsessed with Jennifer's Body to me it's absolute perfection. Like I am Jennifer Check and she is me and I have no other explanation that I can put in words lol I also agree that I do not want to see SA on the screen especially when I don't know it's going to happen like way to trigger the hell out of me and probably thousands of other survivors Also as dumb as it sounds but you going over what happens in Teeth makes me feel a bit better like okay I think I can watch that movie 😅
Jennifer's body is my absolute favorite horror movie, and it's mix with comedy works amazingly to portray it's themes. if you plan on keep exploring these kind of movies i would recoment the movie "the lure" about a pair of cannibalistic mermaids working in an adult club where one of them falls in love with a human man, while it isn't a rape and revenge film it's a dark fantasy about the profit of women's bodies, and the director and writer speaks on how the mermaids are supposed to represent inmigrant women
Great video, growing up in the 70’s i never never understood the prevalence of r scenes in movies most of my life. I was like wth! There was a film with Richard Crenna where he plays a mys- cop and has little compassion for women sa victims and then he gets r’d. Its vague but i was young and the changed dynamic really stood out to me. I have heard directors say they want to show the actual horror and trauma so that people cannot look away and not learn to take any type of s satisfaction from it but the history of its use in film is hard to battle with. I cannot watch it and will seek out info before caught off guard even if spoilers. I discovered your channel through your “Portrait” thesis on female gaze and am always looking forward to the essays. Thanks for posting! ✌️🌈!
About Teeth: I hope after the events of the movie, Dawn could end up in a healthy and even potentially sex-positive relationship, preferably with someone who isn’t a man.
Why would she suddenly turn bi out of a justified hatred of men. She will need at least one man to pass on her gift to new generations, preferably one that is nice to her and will support her superpowered children.
@@johndododoe1411 she doesn't need a man to reproduce, just sperm. Artificial insemination is a thing. She also doesn't need a man to take care of her or a child. Plenty of women do that without a man.
@@Butterflier00 Another option to spread her evolutionary feature would be to exploit the modern availability of bottled man juice. After a few generations of further mutations, her bloodline might acquire the control to not kill their babies and only bite the umbilical. For initial reproductive activities, more control would allow holding on while getting the juice, similar to other species that devour their males.
@@Butterflier00 true and sometimes people change their preferences over time or discover theirselves as they get older. Her being bi or even lesbian at some point wouldn’t be that out of left field
5:58 I really agree with your point that the SA scene doesn’t need to be shown or doesn’t need to be shown to make the scene horrifying or to get the feelings across. I read this one webtoon where it was a male SA victim and the author only shows the build up of what the intentions are and what they plan to do and the horrified face of the victim. And then we see the victim simply just standing else where fully clothed; looking blankly at his shoes. Nothing was shown but it was still devastating and it feels more respectful of actual victims to not have their trauma drawn out for views
i absolutely love this conversation. i remember talking to about a boy about this topic, because i am pretty passionate this, and i was trying to explain the feminism wrapped around Jennifer’s Body and Gone Girl (although not necessarily SA and a pretty radical example), and i just could not get him to understand the perspective change between female and male perspectives. even in films like Fight Club i find that women often see it differently. although sometimes it’s not a bad thing, i feel this change in perspective when it comes to SA and women experiences needs to be talked about, and this is a HUGE part of the conversation. amazing video and amazing points!!
Rosalie Hale's mini-story from the Twilightis also an example of RR representation. Even though it's a mini-story, the contradiction between her reluctance to be a vampire and, on the other hand, the joy of revenge she felt killing them one by one with her new powers was so profound.
The director of the 1995 film "Species" was surprised when women told him he'd created a feminist film; apparently that wasn't his intention. He was making a horror/science fiction film but they pointed out scenes where the alien/human hybrid Sil shows strength, power and cunning. In one scene, a man takes her home from a bar to have sex. But her hypersensitive senses detect that he has syphilis! She's trying to have a child and he's no longer suitable. When she says she's changed her mind and tries to leave, he gets aggressive. Then this happens: ruclips.net/video/FEAfMv14l5Q/видео.html Female agency, indeed.
an amazing r*pe revenge movie (directed and written by a woman i may add) is the french film “revenge”. the assault itself is handled very well and isn’t too long and the character’s growth and badassery afterwards is perfect
This video made me remember an episode of _The Dead Zone_ in which a man is unjustly accused of a crime and one of the members of the jury, the only woman there, is biased due to a previous experience with SA, and is determined to judge him guilty. She's made into the villain of the episode, and only changes her mind when the main character, a psychic-and yet another man-brings up her bias in a horribly unnecessary and graphic description of the way that she was assaulted. All of this was _directly in the presence_ of her peers on the jury. I was very young at the time of watching it, but even then it was obvious that what he'd done was not 'serving justice', nor was it a happy ending. It was just cruel. To the viewers as well as the character. It was disturbing to see this woman treated with such unkindness and disrespect from the episode writers. I saw two or three seasons of the show and to this day, it's the episode I remember most vividly.
I disagree, you don't get a free pass to do bad things to people because you have bad things done to you. She is biased and tries to get an innocent imprisoned, seeing her not being treated with kindness because of that as disturbing isn't a good thing. Just because she is a woman who was a victim doesn't mean she gets a pass to do bad things to others.
@@channel45853 That is not at all what I'm saying, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Of course no one has the right to be unkind or unjust to others simply because they were treated unkindly and unjustly in the past. I'm not censuring the characters for showing unkindness towards someone clearly in the wrong, but rather the show writers for how they decided to handle the subject matter depicted in their own episode. In this instance, they were the ones showing unkindness, no one else. It was so incredibly unnecessary for them to have the hero graphically describe the SA like that. The writers treated not only the subject matter carelessly but also the viewers. Anyone watching who had experience with that type of trauma would've had to hear that graphic description with absolutely no prior warning. It was disturbing because of the writers' choices, not the characters', since the characters are only puppets of the writers. I apologize for being unclear in my original post.
I absolutely loved Jennifer's body when I first seen it, even tho I was very young and didn't fully understand the depth of it's meanning. But this film overall felt complitally different that any other film about young girls I've watched before. Later in my life I discovered that I'm bisexuall and I remembered that Jennifer's body was the first film I've seen that had a character that was also bi and not ashamed of it.
feminist & queer horror are my main interests and what i’ve been studying for the past 5 years, i’m so happy to see more people talking about this in other spaces where censorship isn’t as rampant as instagram 😭 i’m thinking of just making vids here instead
So if men are sight oriented and women are touch oriented, and women need to be the ones to take responsibility for mens lustful thoughts by wearing modest clothes, why don’t men take responsibility for our “lustful thoughts” and quit trying to fuckin touch us all the time? Oh wait, I forgot that their inability to keep their hands to themselves is also our fault for… having an appearance.
I really love this video. It's really a great critique of the genre. RE: hysterial paroxysms in the victorian era and the vibrator is a myth that's been perpetuated by poor research in one specific work. the vibrators episode of the Maintenance Phase podcast goes into it, and there's no evidence that the vibrator was invented for it, though that doesn't erase the very real instances of medical SA that women have experienced.
I agree with being given pain medication during an IUD insertion. I didn't even think that was an option until you mentioned it. It was like a light bulb went off. Getting my IUD was borderline traumatic and I had to take a moment to cry afterwards because it was so painful and invasive. I don't regret it and I plan to do it again but I should have the right to not feel that horrible pain again if I cant take it.
I am so sorry. I hope you're OK I can't imagine. But why did you think it was invasive if you chose to do it? Either way I really am sorry. I mean no disrespet
The love I've had for Jennifer's Body since it came out is endless. I recently got to share this movie with a friend and seeing their reaction live and raw made me relive the same feelings I felt watching for the first time. It is such a good movie and it kills me that it flopped when it came out and that people just took it at face value.
A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night is NOT an American Iranian Co-Production. It was written, directed and filmed by Ana Lily Amirpour in LA. She did not "Co-Produce" this with anyone or any production company in Iran. She is an American filmmaker and actress of Iranian descent, and she can stand on her own.
Went with some friends to see Jennifer's Body at the theater. One of my friends was so excited to see it while I was dreading it. When it was over, I was ecstatic. I loved it! The friend who was excited was actually very surprised. He liked it, but he was wanting a sexy teen girl movie.
For my film project I wanted to make a story about mermaid's sister that takes revenge on the prince out of grief for her sister's death. My professor said that it's too gory, even those I had only the outline and didn't permit it 🤷🏼♀️
I never made the connection that the main character in "I Spit on Your Grave" is named Jennifer- I feel like that has to have been Diablo's inspiration for naming it Jennifer's Body
All three of the movies you cover I like and love! I will say I haven’t seen A Girl Walks Home in such a long time. You brought a lot of great points that 14 year old me missed when I first watched it
Incredible video! You always entertain, have great sources and an amazing outline for where you want your video essays to be going. Also… awesome topic!!!
Jennifer's Body is a great example of representing SA trauma/experience, without showing it. I always found it unnerving and somewhat trauma inducing for me when movie show straight up R scenes. With Teeth however, made me very grossed out with all the snapped off disco sticks.
I've always cheered at scenes where dudes punish the bad guy for SA but it'd be nice as a dude to see women gain their power back. It's always freaked me out how quickly and often women are disempowered this way
As a servior of multiple SAs myself, watching films like Jennifer's Body is cathartic for me. The way that certain men think they own your body, even someone like me, who doesn't want male attention in the first place, is so messed up. Consent is important, women, men it doesn't matter.
Tbh Jennifer’s body was only seen as shallow because people at the time thought Megan Fox was just a hot bimbo and saw the “sexy” clips from the movie and assumed it was nothing more than Megan being in the film because she’s hot. Which is unfortunate because while I think some of the messages or symbolisms or what have you of Jennifer’s body got kind of muddled, it definitely isn’t shallow.
Interesting analysis, I enjoyed your thoughts. Don't take the brevity here as disapproval overall, but I have a quibble with the phrasing at 17:50 - "people with penises" don't hold the power in a patriarchy unless they perform specific gender roles, ie that of men. That is, cis men (and particularly straight, gender-conforming men) hold the power. Trans people with penises do not. This is a critical distinction. Trans women are subjected to extremely violent misogyny and are denied access to safety, let alone positions of authority. That's not holding power. Thanks for taking the time to read this comment!
Gratuitous R scenes, trauma pron etc makes me feel weird every time I see it. It's like mainstream snuff films and I find it super weird that it's directed by men... the perpetrators of the violence in these cases....
My sister once recommended "I spit on your grave" to me because I love it when women take the killer role in movies. I don't know why she suggested I, a rape and assault victim, would enjoy seeing a movie with a ~30 minutes long rape scene. Just. Fully tone deaf.
last night in soho (2021) could also fit very well into this trope, sandie is seen trying to make it big in the music / performance industry and all throughout she's mistreated by men and told this is what you have to do to make it big.. and then well you have to watch the rest to understand since i wont spoil too much.
What do you think about the Nightingale? I thought that it was good but extremely harrowing. There’s a scene of sa but the camera focuses on the main character’s face the entire time. She finds solidarity and goes through her trauma.
I know I'm not who you asked, but I feel like they did a good job in their depiction of uncomfortable unbelievable grief and trauma without being exploitative with it. They did not relish in extending the scene. It is a driving force in the movie but not all the movie is
Have you seen the film Revenge? It's a 2017 feminist take on the genre, directed by a woman, and a pretty noteworthy addition, it says some things about objectification that are echoed in these but also pretty unique
Extremely late, but on the thought of men directing a story on women's suffering, I can't think of anyone better than David Cage and both his horrible handlings of Beyond: Two Souls and Detroit: Become Human. When the first trailer dropped about D:BH about the whole topic of domestic abuse, Cage was asked why he was writing this topic into the game, he simply said he 'enjoyed' it. Not that he wanted to raise awareness. As a man whole also harrassed his later lesbian star of Beyond: Two Souls, where you're basically railroaded into a near r*pe scene intended to I think get the audience mad amd want to retaliate to get revenge. And the whole ordeal of having a nude body version of the then teenage protagonist against the will of the actress... The only horror is how this is handled and it made me uncomfortable to watch it as well as horrified at an implied bad end. David Cage is a prime example of how to not write women in these situations. It doesn't make you sympathetic, its just torture porn that makes people just not engage with a more personal medium.
I had thought a bit about this before where in the movies in my mother tongue [malayalam film industry, has some amazing movies btw ;) ] there are SO many many movies where the backstory involves any kind of trauma happening to a woman and everything else happening based on that. I dont think theres been any mainstream movie in malayalam that actually does solely focus on rpe and rpe culture instead of it being just a plotline
Oh my gosh! I not long wrote a dissertation about this exact topic, and I very much enjoy the points you raised in this video. I'm so glad to see that this is becoming such a well discussed topic!
i always feel like any time a character has to get revenge for another is very sus, *especially* when its a man getting revenge for a woman. its more of a power/savior fantasy imo when it happens like that. it always feels very icky to me, like its more important how the men in the woman's life react than the woman herself. personally i feel like an easy fix, if you still want other characters involved, would be to have them work together instead of a male character (typically a father) going off on his own to slay the dragon thats hurt his property (instead of supporting her and doing what she wants how she wants).
I'm a dude learning writing. In horror, a traumatic event is more impactful when not shown. The imagination can do a lot more than just showing the event on screen. This doesnt apply just gruesome, rapey scenes. Monsters. Dont show what they are, but have them stalking through a dark hallway with gurgling, crunching noises. Killers. Don't have them talk about their obsession. Show them their room full of burnt dolls and a computer screen showing your address. Trauma. Don't show the 'one' scene. Have the character limping from the house before collapsing on the floor shaking.
No non-consensual sex scene should ever last 25 minutes. EVER. Unless it's a fantasy porno thing, then go off I guess, but ANYWHERE ELSE 25 minutes for a traumatic scene like that is entirely unnecessary, and quite frankly, disgusting. Even people who aren't victims of SA would find a 25 minute scene depicting an assault uncomfortable. 25 minutes is far too long. Even if it WAS a consensual sex scene, people would be uncomfortable sitting through 25 minutes of that. Like bruh who the fuck thought that was a good idea? Who gave that the "ok?"
That was the point, you shouldn’t watch I spit on your graves scene and think it’s sexy. Nothing about the scene was pornographic. It was uncomfortable and depressing. The director of the film said the scene was supposed to make the men in the audience feel uncomfortable, he created the film based off of his friend that was assaulted. I do agree 25 minutes is long, but that’s not the reason why it was long.
Great timing on this drop. Honestly, my partner and I have been talking about what's going on with the supreme court right now, and as a SA survivor, I have to say I'm concerned how this is going to effect our sociological response to basic human rights and bodily autonomy. When there are systems in place that can legally dictate and control what a person can or cannot do with their own body, regardless of circumstances like assault or medical emergency, then we're on a very slippery slope to major human rights violations, and a societal acceptance of abuse.
As a survivor of sa when I was a child, and then r twice in my late twenties. I will disagree on the original 'I spit on your Grave' being unnecessarily long, I feel like it was meant to make you uncomfortable, it isn't anything like other sa and r movies wherein the act is made to be much like a fantasy, softcore porn type of sa or r. This is just what I mean that sa&r, if shown should be uncomfortable, something that can show the truest horror of sa&r. I do have to be careful depending on my state of mind, if there is sa&r, especially if it's against children.
Even outside of sa, the vast number of films where a man rises to greatness through the death/kidnapping/exploitation of a woman is super eye-roll inducing. It’s a major trope and once you become aware of it, it’s hard not to notice it in practically every action movie.
omg i love your chanel, so cool to see you like this type of film commentary 💜
And also yeah your super on point here, Liam Neeson has made like a ton of movies where his character has his wife, and then daughter, kidnaped/ kept away from him as a "plot" device for the movie.
At this point, watching these kinds of movies feels quite boring.
*omg lol i hadn't finished the video when i first watched, just in the end i noticed she had already mentioned that movie
It literally is the backbone of the action genre. Somehow, women are the ultimate, irrelevant victim that exists to progress the male protagonist, seductive villain that exists to distract the male protagonist, and hot towel that exists as the reward for the male protagonist all in one. Isn’t it great being a woman 🤡 🤡
And Wall-E
And horror films!! A woman is always sacrificed in a backstory lol
The point of these films isn't that the victim is irrelevant, but that the victim is important enough to justify extreme acts of violence in their defense. The male hero represents a male focused view of respecting and protecting women against bad men unworthy of even being alive.
I resonate with the observation you made about how female directors do not show SA scenes in their movies because it's not necessary. It made me think of this Tunisian film directed by a woman called Beauty and the Dogs, which is about a woman who is trying to seek justice after she was sexually assaulted by police officers. The film does not show the SA scene but shows the events immediately afterwards and the ordeal the victim goes through reporting the crime. It's so obvious the victim is so traumatized by what happened that you don't need to see the rape scene. I think this shows that female directors are better at dealing with this subject matter in films in a respectful, sensitive way.
THIS
YES.
YES!!
i’m tunisian and this is first time i heard about the movie , no one talked about it
YES
a quick addition! megan fox herself is bisexual but she's said in interviews that she played jennifer check as a deeply closeted lesbian in jennifer's body. so while the line does imply bisexuality, megan fox believes jennifer to be a lesbian. obviously megan's interpretation isn't confirmed, but i thought it was interesting!
The writer decides,not the character.
@@s1ckgirl the writer hasn't confirmed anything though??
@@s1ckgirl that's why they said "megan's interpretation isn't confirmed"
@@s1ckgirldid ya read the whole comment?
@@s1ckgirl the actor is just as much a part of the process of creating a character as the writers are - writing can only go so far. performance elevates text and text elevates performance. while the writers may have intended for jennifer to be bisexual, megan fox intended for her to be a closeted lesbian, and the movie could be interpreted either way. not everything that's written is 100% in stone - writers can change their minds all the time, as can actors. plus, writers often times will just let their actors improvise on set, which means that some characteristics of the character are completely up to the actor. it's a collaborative process. the act of creation is the act of collaborating with other people
The rape scenes in 13 Reasons Why were completely unnecessary and felt like trauma pornography. It was extremely triggering and I had to force myself to continue the series. Game of Thrones is another perpetrator of this with the SA scenes.
Agreed. I didn't watch 13 Reasons Why but I stopped watching GoT bc of the gratuitous scenes of r4pe and female harming as a whole. Sansa's scene, for example, felt SO exploitative and gross.
I couldn’t watch GoT for that. It was SO triggering. Running across clips was enough even though I watched one episode it was enough for me to go “nope!”. It was SUPER frustrating for me because I love fantasy and dragons and had some friends teasing me about being a mother of dragons lol. So it should’ve been up my alley, but nah…not watching that sh!t.
@@sonorasgirl exactly. and the kicker was when the writers literally tried to justify Sansas SA, making her say "if it wasn't for ramsy, I would have stayed a little bird foreve." like no. literally. no.
@@sonorasgirl that’s the only reason I don’t watch GOT. The clips are enough to make me go NOPE even though I love fantasy theme.
especially considering how the hannah one didn’t even happen in the book. she was sexually assaulted, but the author made it seem like she instigated it in a way, which was confusing, and that’s my main problem with the show. the book was bad enough that they added extra graphic scenes to try to make hannah’s over all selfishness and blame of everyone but herself more justified
"I think that SA scenes are often completely unnecessary" period.
I waited 2 years for "Promising Young Woman" and it nailed it. It fucking nailed speaking of it, showing the leading up to it, but NEVER showed SA in the works and didnt even mention the word "rape" ONCE. Yet it showed how willing SA can make you to do the worst things possible to offenders and yourself as a sacrifice. Ngl, i've wanted to deliberately die, so that my attackers could get charged, because at least murder gets taken seriously...I felt a sense of justice for my own tragedy. And that made it the perfect female revenge movie for me.
Reading this, I had the thought of
“If it is not onscreen, it didn’t happen “
Not sure if it would be a bad habit of decades of being shown EVERYTHING by moviemakers, or something else...
There's just no reason to show SA on anything unless you're a dickhead that wants to use garbage shock value, you're someone that doesn't know what a scene like that can make others feel, especially SA victims or you actually enjoy scenes like that which reason enough for anyone to be around someone like that, because gross
Yess I've been waiting for someone to mention promising young woman.
That actually makes me want to watch the movie now, I'm glad I found this comment
@@serenitymoon825 omg im glad you found it too! promising young woman has become one of my yearly rewatches, it's so so soooo good
"girls are more touch oriented and boys are more sight oriented"
ORRR girls just know how to control themselves! We're not fuckin blind, we just know how to not gawk.
we're actually punished for acting "incorrectly" in society and told to keep things like that under wraps as well. men are encouraged to gawk and taught it's normal for them to. women are taught how to control themselves, and men aren't, basically.
@@peiithosThis video is why I’m a lesbian 😭 Can’t stand men bro
@@peiithos Pretty much. I think it’s quite funny when people make excuses for guys saying it’s their nature to look, when it’s actually everyone’s nature to look because it’s human nature. It’s just one gender is taught to control certain behaviors while the other isn’t. I know this for a fact because regardless of gender, when people aren’t raised with healthy boundaries, they are uncontrolled, but when people are raised with healthy boundaries, they control.
no you don't
Ikr tf
It was only recently someone made me realise that the directors get to watch these sex scenes in full, over multiple takes, and they get to keep every take they want, and that made it all so much more horrifying to me.
For what? What exactly are they even going to do with that? It's not like it's full-blown porn. In sex scenes actors don't actually do any penetration. And they'll have a special little skin tight skin color piece of cloth over the genitalia so it doesn't even rub against each other. They also have a special trainer to help them get used to the action for that scene since of course they're pretending to have sex or in the case of sexual assault, pretend to rate somebody in a scene.
Both actors will typically be uncomfortable with it. They're typically prepared and given these special costs. And of course any movies going to have their multiple takes.
But the fact that the director's keep it is bizarre. Like if they're specifically only keeping these takes then that is really bizarre. Cuz I really don't understand what they're going to get out of that. Two pieces of cloth rubbing against each other?
I mean that's not to say that in a lot of sections in certain movies that the actors aren't completely naked. But they're generals are never actually touching. Their genitals are covered up, and usually they're in a position and the camera is in a position where that is not shown as to not break the immersion.
At most their hip is hitting the other actors hit. But Jenna knows never actually touch. And as you may have seen in any naked scene in a film, you can never see the genitalia no matter how close to their pelvis the camera may get. Even with the guys you don't see any dangling testicles.
, There are some exceptions, but typically sex scenes or nude scenes are not going to reveal any genitalia either using camera positions and the actors physical position plus the cloth.
I mean, I guess there is that psychological factor. But it's just so weird. Whatever they're getting from those takes they would probably get a better feeling from just watching actual porn. There's literally nothing you can get out of that other than well what the scene supposed to make you feel in the movie.
I'm not saying you're lying. By no means am I saying that. I'm just saying is that it's true, that is really really bizarre. Especially given what the actors got to go through and even wear when making those scenes.
Unless these directors are making straight up erotica, there's never going to be any actual penetration in sex scenes. And even if they were making erotica, well that's basically equivalent to porn but with a story. So penetration would supposed to happen, and it would supposed to be on camera. That's what makes it an erotica versus a regular sex scene in a film.
But if you're literally just talking about regular sex scenes in a film, there's literally nothing showing other than ass cheeks and maybe the woman's tits and that's it. Genitalia's never shown, testicles are never seen dangling unless it's a nude scene for comedy reasons, and their genitals never actually touch and are covered up.
So it must be some sort of weird psychological kink. Cuz I literally can't even comprehend what pleasure somebody will get out of that that they wouldn't get out of regular porn.
ew
Imagine having to portray it. You being there in the act... victim or abuser, it's both equally horrific to put a person in that role... in that headspace... :/
Such a good thing that there are now sex scenes directors who are all about consent and safe sex scene practices… which is also horrifying because its just so recent…
bro but imagine if ur the editor and a woman x-x have to cut between all the angles and watch every take for like dozens of hours
it still surprises me that people looked SO shallowly into Jennifer's Body. like, that's... exactly what they're trying to avoid! still a wonderful video, i love love love it.
The marketing was the problem. I watched a video recently where someone reviewed the issue and it was 100% marketed as a titillating chance to see Megan Fox naked and pretty much nothing else. So while the film was executed well, the marketing misled audiences and caused a lot of confusion and disappointment. People got a first impression from the trailers and never really changed their minds even when the film itself was much deeper.
there's kind of a revisionist history with jennifer's body going on along with it's resurgence. yeah, it got a lot of unfair misogynistic reviews but the dialogue and pacing was v clunky and bogged it down. it was a little too cheesy/comedic and for a lot of people the ending was unsatisfying after everything. the concept is amazing though
@@IshtarNike !! yess love that video omg
Marketing was the problem. It was marketed as a Megan Fox sex appeal vehicle. Turned a lot of people off I think(ironically).
@@IshtarNike there's an awesome interview here on youtube of Diablo Cody and Megan Fox talking about the whole process of making the movie and how they were wronged by the producers and the marketing team, they deserved so much better
The story of Teeth never comforted me like it seems to other women because the only way she manages to get “revenge” or to stop the perpetrators is to allow herself to be violated in the first place :/
It feels like a pyrrhic victory. More like immediate revenge than protection
yeah, agree
i feel like she rose above the violation? like she became a femme fatale and was like i’m gonna give you something you think you want you think you love and completely RUIN it for you
but i see your point too
Ye
Also just as a note, that idea of men being more visual was brought up by a professor in my COLLEGE. When I brought up women are visual too, and might get “lustful thoughts” (not my idea, I was just going by what he was saying) by looking at an attractive person, he was genuinely surprised, like he hadn’t considered it. This happened ten years ago. SMH
Dude realised he never saw women as people in that moment
I had a professor teach us that two years ago ;;;;
humans are incredibly visual, considering it’s probably our strongest sense that we rely on heavily to navigate the world
@@pheonixrises11 yeah, over 70% of our sensory intake is vision. But our society treats men as humans and women as another species, and that is how we get ridiculus phrases like "men are visual creatures" as if women aren't, to justify irresposability.
Your professor hearing that: m.ruclips.net/video/RxeQ63GDx4s/видео.html
I'm probably not the only woman who wishes that our vaginas actually had teeth that would automatically bite if we were touched without consent.
Seriously,Like why didn't Abrahamic God think of that?
There's a plastic device that women put in their vaginas with this purpose. It tears the penis when they pull it.
@@pathetic-traveller06Cause he's not a very good dude
The fact that this weapon was invented and was denied to be sold to the public
@@wiggilytaco7570 Real, it's awful how governments ban self-defense weapons like that when they literally *only* harm the person who attempts to commit r^pe.
"Jennifer's Body" is so underrated. I remember going to see it in the cinema back when it was first released, and there was scarcely anyone in my screening. I'm glad that it's developed a cult following in subsequent years.
YOU’RE EVERYWHERE OH MY GOD 😭
I luvvvvvvv Jennifer's body but what I hate is that ppl are like yea fuck men but every guy Jennifer attacked didn't deserve it instead of going after then men who turned her into a demon she went after innocent guys and that sucks
i still think the dialogue in that movie bogs it down a lot but that concept is perfect. if someone remade it with a less comical tone (blasphemy, i know) i think it'd be even better.
@@zendayasbiggestsfann5753 well jennifer wasn’t jennifer anymore if that makes sense
@@puccabee tru
I knew my husband was the one for me when we watched Teeth back in 2008 and he absolutely loved it. He was rooting for another guy's penis to be bitten off while the other guys in the room were simply horrified. They weren't as bothered by the SA of Dawn mind you, just the penis being mutilated.
aww but at the same time oof
I don't think being horrified makes them bad in any way though. I'm a cis woman and I had to stop watching the movie after seeing a severed penis on the ground... I can acknowledge that the piece of shit rapist deserved it without wanting to see it...
Ikr.
You picked a good one, hope y'all are well!
Agreed. When I saw this I thought this was really more of a horror for men. I feel like this is a primal fear men have of women.
I think female directors is HUGE. I have a history of SA and the only shows I can watch dealing with that topic were directed by women. It’s possibly a bias, but I usually don’t know until after when I’m like huh…that didn’t give me a full on panic attack- who directed this? Oh, yup, makes sense
Wow, same :0
I think the lack of community in Teeth isn't unrealistic to women, especially those in puritanical contexts. The patriarchy isolates us from each other. I've hard to learn to grieve the relationships that could've been positive in my life if it wasn't for that.
Also, the sacrifice is a very direct SA metaphor. She's crying and begging them to stop, they're laughing...
that’s a very good point, i think the lack of community would be a bad portrayal in most other contexts, but it’s very accurate to my experience in a semi-strict religious environment. even if you aren’t a survivor of SA specifically, talking about other forms of abuse and sex in general is highly discouraged, so it just leaves you feeling lost and alone.
@Lunasuji What do you mean you've had to grieve relationships that could have been positive? The patriarchy turned yall against each other? I'm so sorry. Try and rekindle these relationships, you will regret it if you dont.
I think culturally we needed some kind of folklore story to teach kids like A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night. Instilling a fear that if you harm someone sexually (or even just violently), a female vampire will haunt you and punish you. Just like consequences in real life. Just like how we tell kids to be good or Santa won't put you on the Good List or the Boogey Man will get you as an incentive to make kids behave.
Raold Dahl wrote a version of Little Red Riding hood and its absolutely my favourite version (she gets her revenge) . You should look it up! He wrote a whole book called Roald Dahls revolting rhymes, maybe more are like this!
our country has those ghost stories (lady dressed in white wailing, dont approach, do not look at her direction etc.) and the rate of SA is still pretty high here 😅😅😅
yeah in latin america we have these stories (la llorona, la sayona)… it hasn’t really stuck in people’s minds at all lol.
maybe we should reclaim the teeth mythos. Ask for consent or ye will not live to regret it ~~
@@cammie4923just like Jennifer's body, Charlie and the chocolate factory movie was and still is hated to this day. While being more accurate to the book
I thought Jennifer's body was great when it first came out but since I am a woman I was looking at the metaphorical meaning it was portraying. Megan fox was chastised for pretty much everything she did due to her beauty and not only by men by women as well . This is horrible ! She has always been outspoken about this toxic behavior and double standards that are pretty much abuse ,and the sexual exploitation of women .
She quite literally was Jennifer and it's very sad. She and Jennifer were objectified 💔 and it ruined her career, it's so unfair
One bit abt the sacrifice scene in jennifers body that stuck w me since first viewing was how even though jennifer went in the bands van "semi-willingly" she quickly realizes how much Danger she is in being a teen girl alone w those men and she lies about her se x ual experience as a way to escape and this is what dooms her
Tl;dr: forever impacted at how jennifers body is constructed to make the hypesexualization of jennifer check what dooms her and saves her at the same time (much like her relationship with needy)
I remember when I first watched it, the thing that hurted me the most was how scared she looked in the van :( it broke my heart. We've all been there.
And also her telling them she was a virgin is also great commentary on how ppl think sexually promiscuous or just sexually actively girls deserve the sexual harassment and assault they get. Honestly when she was crying in the van, my heart broke 💔
@@PolliitoAle yes 🥺💔
It also draws from how promiscuous women are demonized in society so Jennifer is demonized in a literal sense which turns out to be her superpower
I think it's interesting how the main character in Jennifer's Body and the main character in I Spit On Your Grave share the same name. Could be seen as a metacritic of the genre itself, as well as rape culture.
The title is after the Hole song Jennifer's Body, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that was thought about as an extra layer.
Metacritique should become a word, if it isn't already.
I think you should also look into Mad Max: Fury Road. It's not a horror, but still it treats the theme of sexual assault respectfully, and focusing on the women reclaiming their agency. At no point in the movie do we see the women being assaulted, but we can deduce what happened to them by the fact that they're made to wear very little clothing, two of them are pregnant, and their recurring phrase "we are not things". As a matter of fact, they ignite the plot: the story starts with them trying to escape their abuser with the help of another woman, thus highlighting the importance of female solidarity. It's the first movie I saw where rape wasn't treated as pseudo-porn, and the focus was entirely on the agency of the victims, I highly recommend it
I love that movie so much.
Another interesting point in Jennifer’s body is how after her sacrifice, the one who takes on the consequences of this heinous act is not the perpetrators but Jennifer herself. It’s a very poignant commentary on the treatment of victims in our societies and judicial systems. And I love this video a lot, you are a wonderful creator and I enjoyed your perspective!
I watched Teeth with a mix of college friends and the hard divide between the girls and the guys reaction was honestly kinda startling. every girl was excited by each kill and came away wishing that we could have that power and the guys were just terrified and scared. honestly their reaction made me question the kind of guys i was hanging out with.
I wouldn’t be too harsh on them, it’s probably just sympathy. While the dudes definitely deserved it in the movie, it’s hard to imagine that without imagining you having your own junk bitten off, therefore causing some discomfort emotionally from that. Obviously you’re a better judge of their character than I am though, obviously I don’t know more about them than you because you’re the one who knows them. I’m just trying to provide an alternate explanation for them being freaked out.
I'm sorry. If yall were CHEERING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IRL, I get why they'd be scared that you see them as r--ists. But if you weren't, and they still had that reaction, I'd question it.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 idk how you got we were "CHEERING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IRL" but we were talking about how much safer we would feel with a defense like that and were excited when a r--ist got consequences.
@lilaclolapop ok my bad I misinterpreted. I read it too fast. It is uncomfortable and alienating when women say that though. I'm not really sure what to say in that situation. Not blaming you at all. Just telling you my point of view. Like I said, if you weren't, then yeah i don't really get their reaction
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 honestly i think most of them couldn't get past the body horror and sympathy fear, and i don't blame them for that.
SA scenes will always remind me of an art class I had in university. My male professor decided it was a good idea to show us this movie which featured a violent and graphic r*pe scene and as a survivor of that myself it made me freeze in my seat. I took up the courage to write my professor about my experience and how other female students felt about it and looking back on his response I don't think he truly understood the significant impact it had on the female students (and male ones who were shocked) he told me he'd give out a warning in the future and that he himself worked with a social group that helped out victims of SA...in my coming semesters I kind of felt like this prof in particular had a very high opinion of himself and that he had a very narrow understanding of 'feminism'. Your video was really well done
Did we go to the same university? Not sure why, but this very narrow-minded view of social justice, feminism, and anti-racism as promoted on campus, and it caused tension because there was no room for any other thought. Though it was pretty funny because the people who followed this narrow-minded Brie often came off as being the things they were “fighting against”. I’m a bit surprised that your professor responded the way he did, but didn’t have a trigger warning in the first place.
Horror and Comedy are the two genres i think would benefit the most from a more diverse, female, poc, etc view and take. There's so many experiences, existences, that could add SO much to narratives in these films. It's frustrating, really.
16:32
We NEED to talk about this more. I went to get an IUD at 19 because I bled for two months straight. My OB said that it would be a tiny pinch.
The amount of pain I was in for those few minutes was comparable to the pain I was in when I had a 5mm kidney stone. Thank god it only lasted a few minutes, I would have lost it. I actually involuntarily screamed, and I have a very good pain tolerance.
WHY do they not offer any kind of actual pain medication? Tylenol and Ibuprofen do absolutely nothing for that level of pain. If a man had to have that same procedure, they would absolutely put him under completely. 🙄
@@mintkit1064 Copper IUDs are NOT recommended for people with endometriosis. You are most likely a better fit for a hormonal IUD.
I’m pretty sure I took either Tylenol or Ibuprofen beforehand. It was still incredibly painful. I recommend taking something stronger if you have it available to you. If weed is legal where you are, a small dose of edibles might help a lot.
Worst case scenario, BEG your OB for something stronger and emphasize that you have endo.
@@mintkit1064 hey, I have endo, and an IUD, and definitely talk to your doc first - copper ones make it worse. I have a mirena, but I know the particulars should be discussed with your doc.
Sooo…the pain…
My two cents - it was absolutely terrible getting it inserted. Find a good gyno who will take your pain seriously, and see what pain options they have. I was told it would be a pinch too, and I ended up almost blacking out and being given a cloth to bite while crushing a nurses’ hand. Then I couldn’t walk well after, and nearly passed out walking out. Ngl, cause I know OTC pain killers don’t work I went home and had a VERY stiff drink. HOWEVER. It was still worth it to me - I haven’t had cramps or a period in 4 years now and it’s bloody (😉) amazing.
My IUD wasn't a big deal but my cervical biopsy was HORRIBLE. It was the worse pain I've ever experienced, way worse than even having a genital piercing. It was ridiculous that I was told it'd just pinch a little.
Super late reply but: I also have an IUD but I'm not American and went to a midwife (I think that's the word) to get it done, who demanded I was on my period for the procedure. On your period, your cervix is slightly open naturally, which allows them to pop the IUD in without interference. In the US, I've heard that doctors use a needle-like device to open up the cervix. That sounds insanely painful and it's unnecessary!
One of the few films by a male director that I feel like actually treats SA seriously and respectfully is Perfect Blue by Satoshi Kon. It can get graphic when portraying the SA, so please don’t watch it if you don’t want to see that, but specifically earlier in the film there’s a pseudo SA scene that the main character experiences as an actress “acting out” a SA scene (yes, the film is very much into blending reality and fiction). Even though she (presumably, it’s really hard to tell with this film) wasn’t SA’d at that point in the story, the exploitation of her body and lack of autonomy when trying to break into the film industry was truly palpable. It shows how even the tenants of consent are totally warped when it comes to sèx, especially in fiction/the film industry. She was “consenting” to the male director and producers objectifying her body and exploiting her trust in order to push back against another male dominant industry that defined her independence and her femininity. They didn’t once consider her comfort, and were mostly focused on getting the shots in painfully intimate detail, while the film’s camera is focused on her increasingly despaired expressions. At a later point in the film, someone (possibly her) literally gouges out the director’s eyes and after placing her idol song in an elevator. It’s where I first learned about the male gaze, even though I had no idea what that even was at the time.
the one who gouges out the director's eyes were her manager
I love this movie.. the depiction is extremely hard to watch and I agree if it is triggering I would still watch the movie and skip that scene because it's a really great movie- but yeah I think it helps to understand the exploitation of women and how even in acting out a depiction of SA it can cause real trauma especially if you are made to repeat it multiple times...
It also seems like the chador, hijab and other coverings in the Western world are seen as like “oppressive” and thus women who wear them are seen as meek, weak, and/or controlled. So I love that it also subverts that very Western feminist idea. Showing that through choice it is representative of power and agency. I don’t know if that was intentional but it came to mind while watching.
I also thought about that but the focus here is on choosing to cover up, in my case i'm just forced to, i feel like i have no control over my body
it's only powerful if they are wearing it because they want to, you know damn well there are countries Islamic that ban women from not wearing hijab or burka from the stage of puberty and up, and parents who force their daughters to wear it..
As a woman who actually grew up in the middle east I find this to be a really bizarre take tbh. The head coverings absolutely ARE oppressive and compulsory and in some places if you don't wear one men will treat you like a whore and be nasty to you *in public*. Some will even commit horrible assault in groups on women they think are impure or showing too much or not being "modest". It's a good reason why you always want a male person escorting you most places. It's not "empowering", it's just another example of men forcing cultural attitudes on women because they're afraid of our bodies.
i could wear a hijab and i don’t think it’s oppressive. women who are forced to wear it are oppressed.
Feeling compelled to wear that in very hot temperatures for any reason is not exactly empowering. Think about how uncomfortable that must be and what other conditions (danger) must make it worth it
don't we love RUclips and their censorship policies
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night is one of my favorite movies! It's not for everyone, but I love it.
I like your videos. I'm not a woman but I'm perceived like one. I know its hard to be inclusive about such gendered topics but I'm glad you try.
glad you like the videos!! If there’s any aspects you think I could be more inclusive please let me know!
The soundtrack is amazing as well!
Many of the strongest feminists (and other strong, smart women I know), didn't necessarily start their lives out as women. I'm just so glad you're here for some good conversations!
Same same same
@@sunnydalton2994 that's not true, what a major L.😂
I truly appreciate films that tackle SA without graphically depicting it. Say what you will about "Violation" (an intensely gore filled nightmare of a film): it's ability to utilize this gore during the revenge scene is pretty amazing when contrasted with the SA scene: a scene that is so understated and visually creative but so realistic in depicting SA as something that more often than not is committed by someone we know. It's brutal in that it is nonconsensual, it's violence lies in its manipulation rather than a graphic show of the act. It also does not turn the victim into a hero: she is a character filled with flaws and instability. No one has to be a perfect angel to experience the horror of sexual assault. The way in which the SA scene was filmed also seems to seek to prompt the viewer to ask "was it really SA?" just as so many survivors are questioned about in real life.
I watched Jennifer’s Body for the first time only about a year ago, and it has swiftly become one of my favorite movies ever. While my personal connection to it is less with the SA plot lines and more identification with the messy toxicity of female friendships, I always love to see it discussed in its many complexities
20:00 honestly, one thing I actually loved about Teeth was the absence of community. Because growing up in a strict religious environment, I had no one to turn to when I started to have feelings I felt were “impure”. All of the women I knew either wouldn’t feel comfortable discussing it, or actively supported that harmful culture (like Dawn’s friend). When you grow up in a culture that shames women and their bodies, it leads to your isolation, and feeling so alone and dirty and sinful even when you’re surrounded by the people who are supposed to support you. And the one woman Dawn was supposed to be able to turn to, her mother, dies due to the negligence of another harmful man (and if you like the interpretation of the smokestacks, patriarchy as a whole).
I would say Teeth is one of those movies that definitely one portrays the experiences of some people, not everyone. Many people find it inauthentic and too bleak, but to me it was ugly, lonely, heart wrenching, and the most god-honest truthful movie I’d ever seen. While for the life of me, I could never relate to Jennifer’s Body (even though I love it as a movie)
i just think that the fact that they would even dare to make actual r* scenes is just disgusting to me. i think you can address r* without actually making the actors act out a horrible scene. like do people not see anything morally wrong there?
I have this problem with sex scenes in movies in general. I'm here to watch a movie, not a porno. Nothing more uncomfortable than having to unexpectedly watch a porno with your parents.
@@Oceaan25 yeah, in 90% of the movies sex scenes add nothing to the plot, just a reward for the weirdos, and an awkward experience for all of us normal people
@@Oceaan25yeah agreed it's rare that it adds anything - if you watch Poor Things that recently came out however that's a great example of it being used in a way that's fun and adds to the story
05:30 singlehandedly the fact that the SA scene was TWENTY FIVE MINUTES long made me want to cry this is so uncomfortable. SA scenes SHOULDN'T be shown at all
great video
It says a lot about me as a person that I was listening to the entire section on 'teeth' and only had one thought:
New bottom surgery just dropped.
SCREAMING okay you're so funny and I love you
My nonbinary brain is whirring like a little machine right now. Hell yeah !
Agp
@@turtleboy1188 what does that mean? /gen
Edit: looked it up and apparently it stands for autogynephilia? Is this transphobic? /confused
interesting,am i gonna be able to have any anesthetic while it's happening?
I met Amanda Seyfried at a press event around the time Jennifer's Body came out and told her I loved the movie - it was my favorite of hers. She smiled and said "really??" and it was like the sun came out. I'll always have that moment close to my heart. I'm so glad it meant so much to them, and I'm so glad how much it means to the people who actually paid attention.
I have been writing a story about my character who got SAed brutally and this discussion was spot on. I don't really write the assault because it's sort of traumatic for me and I won't feel comfortable watching or reading graphically long assault scenes. I moreso write her feelings after it. How she coped with it and how her family and society seemed to shun her (since this piece is also kind of set in the 20th century.) And how she felt truly and utterly abandoned. As someone who was SAed in their childhood, I really don't appreciate the fetishization of women's pain. I don't.
@mmmm yeah
As someone who also dealt with SA in childhood, i appreciate writers like you who understand how approach a topic like that without "glorifying" the violation. I'm sorry you also went through it, it's wrong.
If you decide to publish/share your story someday, I look forward to reading it. I wish you the best in your writing endeavors
I'm really sorry. I don't know how to compliment your story without it sounding bad though.
@@lunalovegoatI'm so sorry
Invisible Man and Fresh could also enter into a category revenge kind of story in which the women's abuse is not explicitely shown on screen and we deal with the trauma of those situations. Fresh is more of a dark comedy than anything else but I found myself connecting a lot with how the women that were trapped were being affected, and all of that while keeping the horror aspect (gore mainly) to a surprising minimum. As a viewer we all understand what our protagonists go through and be on their side as they do everything they can to take down their abusers.
I made a video about this as well, but yours is so much well informed about the history behind this subgenre that I didn't know about.
What's fresh about
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259it's been a while since ive seen it, but from what I can remember it's about a girl who has had 0 success on dating apps, but when she meets some guy at the store she falls for him and they eventually start dating. after a long time of them being together, ‼️spoilers‼️he traps her in his house and she learns that he kills people and turns them into meat. she eventually ends up killing him alongside the help of another woman
I loved Fresh
I remember seeing I spit on your grave as a tween, and it was so horrifying, and as an adult I think the horror came from the realism, her surviving and being full of rage at the act, and her actions have a relatability to them. It feels like the question is “what would you do?”
I feel like the movie was just relishing in her assault. They didn't need it to be so unbelievably graphic in the r scene. It's a movie I can never watch again, as a victim myself. I understand the "yes go get your revenge!" Idea, but I think they were unnecessarily interested in including the r scenes. An r scene isn't pleasant, but it doesn't always ruin a movie or show for me. But ISOYG is... Insane
I was a freshman in college when Jennifer's Body came out, and the only reason I watched it was because my older brother recommended it to me. I was not interested in watching it because of the terrible marketing and ironically that's why my brother bought it. He said I should watch it, and he definitely saw the hesitation on my face because he said, "It's not at all what you think it is. You'll like it. It's a good movie." And I absolutely did like it, so I'm very glad that it's getting recognition now with the viewers it was meant for.
It's cool that you brother actually liked this movie enough to recommend to you
I also think in Jennifer’s Body you could look at women victim experiences what the men endure. The foreign exchange kid lost and helpless in the middle of the night, the jock mourning and in pain, and the goth kid with a crush, and the bf who’s tempted away. If you reverse the roles these are also women victim stories. Being assaulted in night walks, having men take advantage of you when you’re sad, when you catch feelings, and when you’re vulnerable in a low point of a relationship. I’m not sure if anyone else saw that but although I loved Jennifer I felt bad for the victims bc they weren’t all lusting for her solely they were scared, sad, trusting, and confused which makes sense. I could be looking too much into that tho. Jennifer’s Body is so much more than revenge p*rn. It’s so good.
Exactly what I was thinking when I first watched it! I was like "damn, that foreign exchange student was just lost," but then I'd connect it to afab experiences at night walking alone, etc, etc. The role switching is interesting because yes, the victims are distressed like the grieving jock, but it's so crazy how a hot girl can just fix their problems, you know? They completely let their guard down even with all the red flags before the making out part.
@@alivenotwell YES exactly and it's something women tend to do with men. We let our guard down and fall victim to not only strangers but men we know and are a part of our everyday life. The movie was truly brilliant looking back on it.
@@alivenotwellbecause it's not very often any girl shows interest in us. Although yes I would still be very skeptical
@@vanillakilla64yeah that's true. Sorry
I always found it so unnecessary to show SA scenes in a movie, it's purely for shock value. There are ways to communicate SA that don't include showing actors in graphic scenes, other ways that can hit just as hard.
I must say, it always made me so sad when Jennifer was in the woods crying before they killed her. Diablo Cody wrote such a great film, perfectly humorous in a dark and horrific way, while talking about real topics for women. That film was for the girls and the gays, cause straight men didn’t understand it
As an SA survivor, when SA becomes the entirety of a female character’s personality, you can really see what kind of person is behind the pen.
Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson portrays what SA can do to someone with no support system; Melinda didn’t want revenge for revenge sake, just to get rid of her attacker. She wanted to become whole again by whatever means she could. I’m the end she does threaten her attacker into submission, but has to live with the trauma she’s endured.
Had Teeth been overseen by a woman, I think a similar catharsis could have been reached as in Speak. I still love teeth, it’s one of my favourites, but I feel like it had a lot of potential to tell a great story that was squandered for the sake of SA/seggsual scenes.
Great video, I wholeheartedly agree with your takes ❤
I first saw Jennifer's body when I was 10. It was cuz of that panic at the disco song. I first thought it was some cheeky type of horror nope. It felt very disturbing like I was watching parasite. I was just floored and I wish more guys would talk about this movie.
i also had been wanting to watch it for years because of that damn song 😭😭
loooll same thing happened to me
My older brother was always disturbed by Jennifer's Body and Teeth and he's a complete gentleman type so I'm not sure what to take from it other than I'm glad some men saw the actual horror in those movies
I think he's safe tbh. Not everyone's comfortable with horror and gore no matter the message. And I think just like women usually are uncomfortable watching sa scenes, guys would naturally be uncomfortable watching someone's penis be bitten or cut off. Not because of the reasons, but because they share that body part. You know, like it's uncomfortable to watch someone break their leg.
Jennifer's Body was a comedy but that one scene is hard to watch, the one where she dies. Kinda funny but mostly sad. Teeth is just sad. I feel so bad for her. JB is funny though, Megan's best role idk of it was bad direction and not her fault but she sucked in tmnt
@@strawberryfox8819finally. Someone gets it
I find it interesting that female directors rarely feel the need to show SA but almost all male directors who talk about SA show SA. I do believe that also goes along with most men need to see the bad thing to believe the bad thing. If women tell a story about their assault, it is rarely believed and woman are often accused of lying because they have “no proof”
No proof is no proof. Going by accusations alone gets people falsely put in prison.
Wait, We’re supposed to be given pain meds during IUD insertion? You might want to do a video on this, I couldn’t find any feminist lenses on this, only storytimes
Yeah I wish that was the norm. When I went to get an IUD it was extremely painful, my vision was blurry and had black spots in my peripherals, as I fought of passing out. My cervix muscle was so constricted they could not even get the tool in that’s suppose to measure my uterus before IUD insertion. After stabbing and restabbing my cervix for thirty minutes, I was left in a room alone, drenched in sweat and trying to put my pants on without falling to the floor as my legs continued to shake, and were to weak to support me. I never tried again. The experience was such a nightmare.
There are meds given insertions but some evil doctors choose not to do that because why bother
I was given advil but nit enough time for it to kick in and God it was still horrible. I had trouble standing and it was painful, the advil kicked in much after the fact and wasn't even strong enough to help the pain. I bled afterwards too, and I'm so mortified of getting it taken out I just don't want to because I don't want to go through that again.
i only got the cervix softener when i got mine in - definitely would’ve benefitted from some pain meds.
@@lizzyizzywizzy same. I took my own Advil about an hour before just to have SOMETHING.
I saw Jennifer's Body when I was fresh out of high school and I remember being harassed online because I was an afab individual speaking out about a film that many male members of the horror community were ridiculing. It was a very harrowing experience for me and it soured me to the horror community for many years and now I wish that some of those men could ask themselves why this particular film meant so much to an afab individual.
Also your euphemisms for the p during the Teeth segment had me howling. I had to send this video to a friend solely based on the "disco stick" moment. You have earned a subscriber.
I'm sorry. People can be very cruel. Same was true for fans of The Amazing Spiderman 2012, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Suicide Squad 2016, Michael bay tmnt, Batman v Superman, Twilight, TMNT II Secret of the Ooze and Jennifer's Body. They are all hated and their opinion is deemed invalid. I'm sorry. Communities can be toxic.
Wonderful video! I actually just got done writing an analysis essay on Jennifer's Body (more specifically on how a box-office blowout has now turned into a cult classic, poor marketing, and how this film was kind pro-feminist/pro-LGBTQ+/and pro-survivor- kinda making what we now define as "good for her" movies
Revenge is another really interesting feminist take on SA. It definitely delves into some less realistic aspects but it's really interesting how the film makers frame the male and female bodies. This video was great!
every time I see something mention the pain of IUD insertion I feel a resurgence of my indignance and anger. I’ve gone through multiple very painful experiences, and IUD is definitely one of the top ones despite it being presented as “just uncomfortable”. I’ve even gotten nightmares about it since it took me so off-guard.
😢
Slams on the table and knocks everything over in excitement (my first reaction when I saw this uploaded)
I will say I cannot watch all movies/tv shows that have this theme/topic but I absolutely LOVE and am obsessed with Jennifer's Body to me it's absolute perfection. Like I am Jennifer Check and she is me and I have no other explanation that I can put in words lol
I also agree that I do not want to see SA on the screen especially when I don't know it's going to happen like way to trigger the hell out of me and probably thousands of other survivors
Also as dumb as it sounds but you going over what happens in Teeth makes me feel a bit better like okay I think I can watch that movie 😅
Jennifer's body is my absolute favorite horror movie, and it's mix with comedy works amazingly to portray it's themes. if you plan on keep exploring these kind of movies i would recoment the movie "the lure" about a pair of cannibalistic mermaids working in an adult club where one of them falls in love with a human man, while it isn't a rape and revenge film it's a dark fantasy about the profit of women's bodies, and the director and writer speaks on how the mermaids are supposed to represent inmigrant women
Great video, growing up in the 70’s i never never understood the prevalence of r scenes in movies most of my life. I was like wth! There was a film with Richard Crenna where he plays a mys- cop and has little compassion for women sa victims and then he gets r’d. Its vague but i was young and the changed dynamic really stood out to me. I have heard directors say they want to show the actual horror and trauma so that people cannot look away and not learn to take any type of s satisfaction from it but the history of its use in film is hard to battle with. I cannot watch it and will seek out info before caught off guard even if spoilers. I discovered your channel through your “Portrait” thesis on female gaze and am always looking forward to the essays. Thanks for posting! ✌️🌈!
About Teeth: I hope after the events of the movie, Dawn could end up in a healthy and even potentially sex-positive relationship, preferably with someone who isn’t a man.
Why would she suddenly turn bi out of a justified hatred of men. She will need at least one man to pass on her gift to new generations, preferably one that is nice to her and will support her superpowered children.
@@johndododoe1411 she doesn't need a man to reproduce, just sperm. Artificial insemination is a thing. She also doesn't need a man to take care of her or a child. Plenty of women do that without a man.
@@johndododoe1411 given her super christian upbringing....i wouldn't be surprised if her character was repressing her bisexuality....
@@Butterflier00 Another option to spread her evolutionary feature would be to exploit the modern availability of bottled man juice. After a few generations of further mutations, her bloodline might acquire the control to not kill their babies and only bite the umbilical. For initial reproductive activities, more control would allow holding on while getting the juice, similar to other species that devour their males.
@@Butterflier00 true and sometimes people change their preferences over time or discover theirselves as they get older. Her being bi or even lesbian at some point wouldn’t be that out of left field
5:58 I really agree with your point that the SA scene doesn’t need to be shown or doesn’t need to be shown to make the scene horrifying or to get the feelings across. I read this one webtoon where it was a male SA victim and the author only shows the build up of what the intentions are and what they plan to do and the horrified face of the victim. And then we see the victim simply just standing else where fully clothed; looking blankly at his shoes. Nothing was shown but it was still devastating and it feels more respectful of actual victims to not have their trauma drawn out for views
i absolutely love this conversation. i remember talking to about a boy about this topic, because i am pretty passionate this, and i was trying to explain the feminism wrapped around Jennifer’s Body and Gone Girl (although not necessarily SA and a pretty radical example), and i just could not get him to understand the perspective change between female and male perspectives. even in films like Fight Club i find that women often see it differently. although sometimes it’s not a bad thing, i feel this change in perspective when it comes to SA and women experiences needs to be talked about, and this is a HUGE part of the conversation. amazing video and amazing points!!
Rosalie Hale's mini-story from the Twilightis also an example of RR representation. Even though it's a mini-story, the contradiction between her reluctance to be a vampire and, on the other hand, the joy of revenge she felt killing them one by one with her new powers was so profound.
21:51 her death was actually based on an actual murder, of Elyse Pahler it's actually really sad she was only 15
Gesus
these directors have a fetish in sa, the girl with the dragon tattoo', and the new 'I spit on ur grave' should not be allowed to be watched or selled.
this is it, its completely unabashed voyeurism and brutal sexualisation under the guise of art and realism.
The director of the 1995 film "Species" was surprised when women told him he'd created a feminist film; apparently that wasn't his intention. He was making a horror/science fiction film but they pointed out scenes where the alien/human hybrid Sil shows strength, power and cunning. In one scene, a man takes her home from a bar to have sex. But her hypersensitive senses detect that he has syphilis! She's trying to have a child and he's no longer suitable. When she says she's changed her mind and tries to leave, he gets aggressive. Then this happens: ruclips.net/video/FEAfMv14l5Q/видео.html
Female agency, indeed.
an amazing r*pe revenge movie (directed and written by a woman i may add) is the french film “revenge”. the assault itself is handled very well and isn’t too long and the character’s growth and badassery afterwards is perfect
This video made me remember an episode of _The Dead Zone_ in which a man is unjustly accused of a crime and one of the members of the jury, the only woman there, is biased due to a previous experience with SA, and is determined to judge him guilty. She's made into the villain of the episode, and only changes her mind when the main character, a psychic-and yet another man-brings up her bias in a horribly unnecessary and graphic description of the way that she was assaulted. All of this was _directly in the presence_ of her peers on the jury. I was very young at the time of watching it, but even then it was obvious that what he'd done was not 'serving justice', nor was it a happy ending. It was just cruel. To the viewers as well as the character.
It was disturbing to see this woman treated with such unkindness and disrespect from the episode writers. I saw two or three seasons of the show and to this day, it's the episode I remember most vividly.
I disagree, you don't get a free pass to do bad things to people because you have bad things done to you. She is biased and tries to get an innocent imprisoned, seeing her not being treated with kindness because of that as disturbing isn't a good thing.
Just because she is a woman who was a victim doesn't mean she gets a pass to do bad things to others.
@@channel45853 That is not at all what I'm saying, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Of course no one has the right to be unkind or unjust to others simply because they were treated unkindly and unjustly in the past. I'm not censuring the characters for showing unkindness towards someone clearly in the wrong, but rather the show writers for how they decided to handle the subject matter depicted in their own episode. In this instance, they were the ones showing unkindness, no one else. It was so incredibly unnecessary for them to have the hero graphically describe the SA like that. The writers treated not only the subject matter carelessly but also the viewers. Anyone watching who had experience with that type of trauma would've had to hear that graphic description with absolutely no prior warning. It was disturbing because of the writers' choices, not the characters', since the characters are only puppets of the writers. I apologize for being unclear in my original post.
@@gentle_apathy it's ok
I absolutely loved Jennifer's body when I first seen it, even tho I was very young and didn't fully understand the depth of it's meanning. But this film overall felt complitally different that any other film about young girls I've watched before. Later in my life I discovered that I'm bisexuall and I remembered that Jennifer's body was the first film I've seen that had a character that was also bi and not ashamed of it.
feminist & queer horror are my main interests and what i’ve been studying for the past 5 years, i’m so happy to see more people talking about this in other spaces where censorship isn’t as rampant as instagram 😭 i’m thinking of just making vids here instead
I'd watch
So if men are sight oriented and women are touch oriented, and women need to be the ones to take responsibility for mens lustful thoughts by wearing modest clothes, why don’t men take responsibility for our “lustful thoughts” and quit trying to fuckin touch us all the time? Oh wait, I forgot that their inability to keep their hands to themselves is also our fault for… having an appearance.
coercion is SA. coercion is SA. coercion is SA. coercion is SA. coercion is SA.
I really love this video. It's really a great critique of the genre. RE: hysterial paroxysms in the victorian era and the vibrator is a myth that's been perpetuated by poor research in one specific work. the vibrators episode of the Maintenance Phase podcast goes into it, and there's no evidence that the vibrator was invented for it, though that doesn't erase the very real instances of medical SA that women have experienced.
I agree with being given pain medication during an IUD insertion. I didn't even think that was an option until you mentioned it. It was like a light bulb went off. Getting my IUD was borderline traumatic and I had to take a moment to cry afterwards because it was so painful and invasive. I don't regret it and I plan to do it again but I should have the right to not feel that horrible pain again if I cant take it.
I am so sorry. I hope you're OK I can't imagine. But why did you think it was invasive if you chose to do it? Either way I really am sorry. I mean no disrespet
The love I've had for Jennifer's Body since it came out is endless. I recently got to share this movie with a friend and seeing their reaction live and raw made me relive the same feelings I felt watching for the first time. It is such a good movie and it kills me that it flopped when it came out and that people just took it at face value.
It's so amazing whenever I watch this type of movie. I can't put into words the gratification it brings
A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night is NOT an American Iranian Co-Production. It was written, directed and filmed by Ana Lily Amirpour in LA. She did not "Co-Produce" this with anyone or any production company in Iran. She is an American filmmaker and actress of Iranian descent, and she can stand on her own.
Went with some friends to see Jennifer's Body at the theater. One of my friends was so excited to see it while I was dreading it.
When it was over, I was ecstatic. I loved it! The friend who was excited was actually very surprised. He liked it, but he was wanting a sexy teen girl movie.
I mean, wasn't that how it was advertised?
For my film project I wanted to make a story about mermaid's sister that takes revenge on the prince out of grief for her sister's death. My professor said that it's too gory, even those I had only the outline and didn't permit it 🤷🏼♀️
That sounds like a great idea though.
Well I'm sorry. Hope you can make it either less gory or not for a class
always so happy to see your videos in my feed! thank you for another amazing analysis hehe
I never made the connection that the main character in "I Spit on Your Grave" is named Jennifer- I feel like that has to have been Diablo's inspiration for naming it Jennifer's Body
Jennifer’s Body was actually named after a Hole song of the same name
@@mb-qi1qq that is one hell of a coincidence
All three of the movies you cover I like and love! I will say I haven’t seen A Girl Walks Home in such a long time. You brought a lot of great points that 14 year old me missed when I first watched it
Incredible video! You always entertain, have great sources and an amazing outline for where you want your video essays to be going. Also… awesome topic!!!
Jennifer's Body is a great example of representing SA trauma/experience, without showing it. I always found it unnerving and somewhat trauma inducing for me when movie show straight up R scenes. With Teeth however, made me very grossed out with all the snapped off disco sticks.
I've always cheered at scenes where dudes punish the bad guy for SA but it'd be nice as a dude to see women gain their power back. It's always freaked me out how quickly and often women are disempowered this way
As a servior of multiple SAs myself, watching films like Jennifer's Body is cathartic for me. The way that certain men think they own your body, even someone like me, who doesn't want male attention in the first place, is so messed up. Consent is important, women, men it doesn't matter.
Any kind of revenge film is scum at heart, as it is the lowest kind of a drove that can be present in a human being.
Tbh Jennifer’s body was only seen as shallow because people at the time thought Megan Fox was just a hot bimbo and saw the “sexy” clips from the movie and assumed it was nothing more than Megan being in the film because she’s hot. Which is unfortunate because while I think some of the messages or symbolisms or what have you of Jennifer’s body got kind of muddled, it definitely isn’t shallow.
Interesting analysis, I enjoyed your thoughts. Don't take the brevity here as disapproval overall, but I have a quibble with the phrasing at 17:50 - "people with penises" don't hold the power in a patriarchy unless they perform specific gender roles, ie that of men. That is, cis men (and particularly straight, gender-conforming men) hold the power. Trans people with penises do not. This is a critical distinction. Trans women are subjected to extremely violent misogyny and are denied access to safety, let alone positions of authority. That's not holding power. Thanks for taking the time to read this comment!
Gratuitous R scenes, trauma pron etc makes me feel weird every time I see it. It's like mainstream snuff films and I find it super weird that it's directed by men... the perpetrators of the violence in these cases....
My sister once recommended "I spit on your grave" to me because I love it when women take the killer role in movies. I don't know why she suggested I, a rape and assault victim, would enjoy seeing a movie with a ~30 minutes long rape scene. Just. Fully tone deaf.
last night in soho (2021) could also fit very well into this trope, sandie is seen trying to make it big in the music / performance industry and all throughout she's mistreated by men and told this is what you have to do to make it big.. and then well you have to watch the rest to understand since i wont spoil too much.
What do you think about the Nightingale? I thought that it was good but extremely harrowing. There’s a scene of sa but the camera focuses on the main character’s face the entire time. She finds solidarity and goes through her trauma.
I haven't seen it yet but I've been meaning to watch it for a while!
I know I'm not who you asked, but I feel like they did a good job in their depiction of uncomfortable unbelievable grief and trauma without being exploitative with it. They did not relish in extending the scene. It is a driving force in the movie but not all the movie is
“Toxic fumes from the nuclear power plant” damn people REALLY know NOTHING about nuclear power.
you’re extremely well spoken and eloquent. love love love
Have you seen the film Revenge? It's a 2017 feminist take on the genre, directed by a woman, and a pretty noteworthy addition, it says some things about objectification that are echoed in these but also pretty unique
Extremely late, but on the thought of men directing a story on women's suffering, I can't think of anyone better than David Cage and both his horrible handlings of Beyond: Two Souls and Detroit: Become Human. When the first trailer dropped about D:BH about the whole topic of domestic abuse, Cage was asked why he was writing this topic into the game, he simply said he 'enjoyed' it. Not that he wanted to raise awareness. As a man whole also harrassed his later lesbian star of Beyond: Two Souls, where you're basically railroaded into a near r*pe scene intended to I think get the audience mad amd want to retaliate to get revenge. And the whole ordeal of having a nude body version of the then teenage protagonist against the will of the actress... The only horror is how this is handled and it made me uncomfortable to watch it as well as horrified at an implied bad end. David Cage is a prime example of how to not write women in these situations. It doesn't make you sympathetic, its just torture porn that makes people just not engage with a more personal medium.
I had thought a bit about this before where in the movies in my mother tongue [malayalam film industry, has some amazing movies btw ;) ] there are SO many many movies where the backstory involves any kind of trauma happening to a woman and everything else happening based on that. I dont think theres been any mainstream movie in malayalam that actually does solely focus on rpe and rpe culture instead of it being just a plotline
It's so messed up yeah. Indian movies don't show sx but they show rp?
Oh my gosh! I not long wrote a dissertation about this exact topic, and I very much enjoy the points you raised in this video. I'm so glad to see that this is becoming such a well discussed topic!
i always feel like any time a character has to get revenge for another is very sus, *especially* when its a man getting revenge for a woman. its more of a power/savior fantasy imo when it happens like that. it always feels very icky to me, like its more important how the men in the woman's life react than the woman herself. personally i feel like an easy fix, if you still want other characters involved, would be to have them work together instead of a male character (typically a father) going off on his own to slay the dragon thats hurt his property (instead of supporting her and doing what she wants how she wants).
I'm a dude learning writing. In horror, a traumatic event is more impactful when not shown. The imagination can do a lot more than just showing the event on screen. This doesnt apply just gruesome, rapey scenes.
Monsters. Dont show what they are, but have them stalking through a dark hallway with gurgling, crunching noises.
Killers. Don't have them talk about their obsession. Show them their room full of burnt dolls and a computer screen showing your address.
Trauma. Don't show the 'one' scene. Have the character limping from the house before collapsing on the floor shaking.
No non-consensual sex scene should ever last 25 minutes. EVER.
Unless it's a fantasy porno thing, then go off I guess, but ANYWHERE ELSE 25 minutes for a traumatic scene like that is entirely unnecessary, and quite frankly, disgusting.
Even people who aren't victims of SA would find a 25 minute scene depicting an assault uncomfortable. 25 minutes is far too long. Even if it WAS a consensual sex scene, people would be uncomfortable sitting through 25 minutes of that. Like bruh who the fuck thought that was a good idea? Who gave that the "ok?"
That was the point, you shouldn’t watch I spit on your graves scene and think it’s sexy. Nothing about the scene was pornographic. It was uncomfortable and depressing. The director of the film said the scene was supposed to make the men in the audience feel uncomfortable, he created the film based off of his friend that was assaulted. I do agree 25 minutes is long, but that’s not the reason why it was long.
Great timing on this drop. Honestly, my partner and I have been talking about what's going on with the supreme court right now, and as a SA survivor, I have to say I'm concerned how this is going to effect our sociological response to basic human rights and bodily autonomy. When there are systems in place that can legally dictate and control what a person can or cannot do with their own body, regardless of circumstances like assault or medical emergency, then we're on a very slippery slope to major human rights violations, and a societal acceptance of abuse.
I'm feeling the same way. I'm very afraid and seriously thinking about leaving the country.
As a survivor of sa when I was a child, and then r twice in my late twenties. I will disagree on the original 'I spit on your Grave' being unnecessarily long, I feel like it was meant to make you uncomfortable, it isn't anything like other sa and r movies wherein the act is made to be much like a fantasy, softcore porn type of sa or r. This is just what I mean that sa&r, if shown should be uncomfortable, something that can show the truest horror of sa&r. I do have to be careful depending on my state of mind, if there is sa&r, especially if it's against children.