Rosemary's Baby always scared the bejesus out of me as a child. To me, Rosemary's husband was even worse than the literal devil, since he actually set her up to have Satan's child, all without her knowledge!
Exactly. That whole movie is about how Rosemary’s power and independence is stripped from her by her controlling husband, by her overbearing neighbors who think they know best (and who seek to exploit her), and by the doctor (recommended by her neighbors) who keeps telling her that her excruciating pain is normal.
@@dashingtherouxthesnow4017 The book is a great alternative if you don’t feel comfortable watching the film because the film is one of the truest adaptions of a book I’ve ever seen.
I agree with you about Rosemary's husband. But one thing that struck me about RB was how she had so little agency during her pregnancy. Everybody bossing her around and telling her what to do. When she's in pain - it's not taken seriously. She's reduced to a child, mocked by her doctor and ordered to drink this bonkers concoction by her next door neighbour who has zero medical qualifications. Nowadays hopefully a pregnant woman would look up her symptoms on google and if offered some disgusting drink by the old boot next door - she'd tell them to do one.
As someone with LOTS of momma trauma I have to admit part of what is so great about mother-centric horror is that it often refuses to flinch while addressing the mother’s taboo feelings AND the child’s. We see exactly, in excruciating detail, how painful the toxic mother-child bond can get for both the parent and the child. Especially in hereditary imo
You actually put into words what I've been struggling to say for a while now. My mom was a terrible mother (much like Amelia early on in babadook, just without the good ending) and put me through a lot of trauma. That's kind of why it sucks seeing so much media glorify mother's and their relationship to their children when the onscreen relationship is just as toxic and damaging as mine was. Horror has really been the only genre that is not afraid to portray a more realistic relationship, and ironically more horrifying one, on screen.
I've never understood why in real life and in stories like We Need To Talk About Kevin the mother doesn't just leave. My mom regretted having children and let me tell you, my childhood would've been much better without her presence. Abandoning your child is seen as the worst thing a mother can do, but I think the harm done by an uncaring caretaker is much worse. At least we have clear cultural narratives of how to deal with abandonment, there's little to no narratives about how to deal with being raised by someone who despises your existence. Even explaining it to a therapist is hard, because technically my mom was there and provided for my physical needs, so how do I explain feeling abandoned all the same?
the “abandonment” thing has always bothered me. my mom gave up custody of me when i was young, because she believed it would be for the best. i hate when moms are seen as instinctually super obsessive and coddling. whenever they show ambivalence or anything else, it’s seen as unnatural or evil even.
Feel this. And I think hearing more lately about this tangle of expectations for mothers has been enlightening me to things about my own mother that baffle me. I removed myself from her house at 14 after years of neglect and abuse, and she was heartbroken. Really actually told me I "tore her heart out and stomped on it" after blatantly resenting and despising me for my entire life. It's an outcome I didn't expect, and how could I? But in her eyes, she wasn't failing as a mother as long as she kept me. No matter how much she hated me or how badly she treated me, as long as she was feeding and clothing me, she was a good mom, and it was me who took that away from her. It's,,, all very wrapped up in this kind of societal expectation, I think.
Or just don’t have children. Society, family and friends put pressure on people(mostly women) that having kids is an expected next step in life or desire. Some go on to have their family and either cherish their children or subconsciously regret having them. I wish this was something more talked about for young adults that believe it’s the norm. That way they have the choice to either have or not have children if it’s not part of their lifestyle. Decisions like going to college, changing careers, moving across the country, drinking, etc have at least temporary effects to the individual. Having kids is permanent.
@@viv7810 that’s obviously a good idea an notion but sometimes women have motherhood forced upon them. They can be on contraception and still get pregnant, then not want to have an abortion. They can not be allowed to be on contraception by their family, religion/beliefs, etc. Obviously I agree if you don’t want kids you shouldn’t have them, but it’s not that easy.
You know what? I love it when abusive mothers are portrayed as horrific and unsettling. Because, one, it's so inhumane to abuse a child, and two, it does feel like that in real life, like you're up against this horrific monster. I think my mommy issues in real life have heavily influenced my taste in books.
I didn't watch the film, but I read We Need to Talk About Kevin. When Eva asks him why he did it, why he killed his father and sister and not her, he says that in a show, you don't off the audience (I read it in my own language, so that's a rough translation. Apologies to Lionel Shriver lol) That line encapsulates Eva's failure as a mother, how she was pressured into becoming one by her husband (and society at large), dooming her relationship with Kevin. The question of whether Kevin was born bad or became bad because he sensed how much his own mother resented his existence is never really resolved. The novel is amazing, is written in epistolary style and it's an incredible gut punch. Anyways, great video
@@debymello4756 Yeah. As the video mentions, Eva is a somewhat unreliable narrator, but that stuck with me. Everything Kevin did was some sort of revenge for being unwanted, which paints Eva as the bad guy. Motherhood as villainy.
@J. V. plus a few visual implications of not acknowleging problems untill they have festered (the red paint in the maps, the jelly sandwich with ants, etc.), pretty much like the compulsory motherhood wasn't acknowleged as it should and instead formed something that could only keep festering and festering
The fact that the book/movie even lends credence to the idea that a kid could be "born evil" makes it a hard pass for me. It pissed me off so much when I watched it. Kids can't be born evil. They can be born with various impairments, which might look a bit like the pop culture notion of psycopathy, but mentally disabled and ill people are not more likely to be violent. So whether a person commits acts like Kevins' is all a matter of circumstance, learned behaviour and ideology
So I didnt catch it until the second time I watched the Babadook but I think Amelia made the story book herself. She wrote children's stories for a living before her husband died. Who is to say she didnt make the Babadook book and then leave it on her own door step then forget about it. I have depression and anxiety and because of that especially when I dont sleep my memory is really bad and unreliable and days tend to blend together. Amelia clearly is struggling with grief and depression so I think thats what happened cause the book is clearly real, her son sees it and everything. To this day The Babadook is one of my favorite horror films because of subtle details like this.
Carries powers are genetic. Carrie 2 The Rage explains this. The manifestation of her powers is what scared her mother. The mother believed Carrie's birth was a punishment. For having sex and liking it. Carries mom is an extreme case of internalized misogyny. She relies on her religion and has this constant guilt of the original sin.
My mom is overprotective to the point that it is a problem, and certainly is also manipulative and kinda paranoic too. But when you call her out on her (toxic) overprotectiveness, she seems almost proud of it. Like a sort of "yes, I take care of my children!!!". No. You lock them up in a cage while making up excuses as to why they're there, and then also try make them feel bad about it when they try to get out and live as themselves a little. It's not the same
OMG this topic reminds me of Little fires everywhere. The way Elena hates her youngest daughter Izzy is terrifying, but we also get a flashback as to why she resents her daughter. She even ends up saying she never wanted her in izzy’s face and around her older children. There’s also Bebe kidnapping her baby after giving her up for adoption, and mia just being a questionable mother. I feel like little fires everywhere literally revolves around the mothers and would be a great addition to the topic of mommy issues and such. Although the show surrounds the issue of racism, the moms and their mothering skills have such a large part in the entire plot. It explores motherhood, the one who wants to protect her child, the one who hates her child, and the one who tried their best, but was unable to protect their child.
The way I went to my subscriptions and went “oh cool! Shanspeare and Film Fatales both did a video on motherhood :D” and then was shocked when I heard collaboration haha
American gothic horror, mostly a genre by and for women despite the most famous writers being men like Herman Melville and Edgar Allen Poe, has a history of portraying the horror of motherhood. The creepy little victorian child ghost, or the haunted doll, come down to us from ghostly stories about fear and anxiety surrounding motherhood for women, which bear in mind was even more deadly to women then.
I love this and I love that you added Scream in as well! "Maternal abandonment causes serious deviant behavior. It certainly fucked you up. It made you have sex with a psychopath."
Story time, once, when my mother tought she was being attacked by a dog (the dog wasn't attacking, it was just a really big dog trying to play) shetook me and put me in front of her touse me as a shield. She is a great mother, and I know she love me and my brother deeply.What I'm trying to say is that, yes, there is a instinct to protect your kids, but this mistified mother instinct that is stronger than anything else is bullshit.
That uh.....doesn't sound like a good parent in fact i'm pretty sure that's counts as child endangerment. Why tf wouldn't she wait with you in the house and wait until the dog left? Literally throwing your child out to be possibly mauled by a dog is some evil shit.
@@prixe12 because we were outside, first of all. You just assumed we were in a safe place and she threw me out for no reason, Innever said that. Second, that was pure instinct, she didn't make the choice of sacrificing me to the dog. Survival instincts kicked in and she took the only thing near to use as a defense.
@@EspiritoDeDafne That's still super fucked up though, she could've picked up and ran. Or kicked the dog not to mention she still more or less sacrificed you to it seeing as how she literally used you as a human shield. That's super sus bro.
@@prixe12 Did you read the part in wich I said it was instinctive and not a conscious decision? As I said, she is a good mother, when she's not moved purely by instict, I can live with the fact that my mother won't fight a wild beast for me
Everybody know the "B" in LGBT stand for Babadook It's been only 2 weeks since I first discovered your channel, searching for videos on Shiva Baby. Having binged all your releases, including those about media I've never had any interest on, I can tell I'll be around here for a very long time
Love all these films, they’re horrific but with an emotional punch. In TV, my favorite “non-horror” mother characters who still scare me would be Livia Soprano & Beatrice Horseman
I like Beatrice as a character. But rather than scare me, it makes me feel pity for her and her family. Specialy after knowing why she ended up being like that.
@@kiriki4558 Good point & I agree. The Time's Arrow episode especially is horrifyingly tragic. In a different episode where she tells BoJack "you were born broken" punches me in the gut tho lmao
Shirley Jackson is an incredible author. I’m learning about her now in year 12 English, specifically the lottery, the summer people and we have always lived in the castle. Her writing always seems to include themes of motherhood or woman hood in general. She also has autobiographical books about being a mother which shine a light on the difficulties of it, identifiable by the name (she refers to them as demons or devils in the title ). I have read or watched the haunting of hill house but it doesn’t surprise me that she discussed motherhood in a taboo way
The belief that all women want biological children and won't be fulfilled without them is why I was denied a hysterectomy for nearly 10 years. A medically justified treatment for my stage 4 Endometriosis. Starting around age 19-20 I began visiting doctor after doctor, including Mayo Clinic, Duke University Hospital, and Northwestern Memorial Hospital. Every damn time all I got was 'Well, don't you want children?" Or, even better, "What if you get married and he wants kids?" Yes, please put me in charge of caring for an infant while I'm being thrown multiple opioid medications, including 75mcg Fentanyl patches, and also have Major Depressive Disorder with 2 s**cide attempts by that point. That sounds like a fabulous idea.
the medical resistance to afab people is insane and ridiculous. they act like they know you, your life, and your future, despite literally just being your doctor. im a young adult and am also looking towards getting a similar procedure, and it scares me how much time and money is likely going to be spent convincing doctors that what i want is what i want. i hope you got the procedure you wanted and that its all worked out well for you
Highly recommend the podcast The Monstrous Feminine if you want more analysis of mothers in horror! Also talks about lgbt rep/tropes, bipoc, femininity, and more, in horror film. Very good and entertaining.
This is semi-unrelated but whenever I head the Babadook mentioned I have an urge to tell everyone about another Aussie horror movie called Lake Mungo, it’s a mockumentary and it’s so good and sad, it does have a complicated mother daughter relationship at the center of it too. I hope I get more good horror films from my home country.
I did my honours thesis on women in horror! I was focusing on queer women in horror but if anyone in the comments is interested in reading more on motherhood in horror then i really recommend “The Monstrous Feminine” by Barbara Creed! Esp chapter 2 “Horror and the Archaic Mother; Alien” and chapter 4 “Woman as Possessed Womb; The Brood” which is a free pdf that's not too hard to find 💖
As an adult woman that has never wanted children (love kids, I'm a teacher) and my husband who feels the same, we were very confused when everyone said Babadook was about grief. Upon watching that movie, it seemed so clear that is was about the horror of being a parent. The exhaustion, isolation, depression, hopelessness, constant judgement. The Babadook is how adults with no children imagine how parenthood must feel. That being said, I think that's what makes a good horror, its open to diff interpretations. ***Also, I agree with others, I think she made the book. The book is like a really hardcore version of The Giving Tree.
When you started to talk about We Need to Talk about Kevin, I immediately stopped the video, watched the movie (which was awesome, thanks for the tip) and resumed your video for the five minutes of analysis. Was worth it.
11:45 i feel like hereditary and the babadook share vaules of a nostalgia that comes with grief. growing up motherhood felt like a very inevitable thing. when amelia decides to have her child she doesnt think she'll have to raise them alone. shes grieving her husband and a chance to live a diverse life. i feel like when annie had peter she was in a confident place of knowing her mom was a bad person and a bad parent but feel back into questioning that statement when she failed to form a connection with him.
I never thought about We Need To Talk About Kevin like that! Having the context from the book makes the story even more interesting, and highlights my greatest fear regarding ever becoming a parent. I don't want kids, I don't really like kids, and all my life I've been told I'll change my mind when I get older. I haven't, and the idea of ever being pressured into having children terrifies me because I don't want to be like the mother in We Need To Talk About Kevin. The context gives a whole new layer of fear to that story that otherwise went over my head.
I've been saying for years that the Exorcist was an anti feminist film, in dialog with the era in which it was made (the 1970s). Thank you for helping me not feel so nuts.
@@ThePitchblue yes. It's also about male fear of female power and sexuality. The proxasums of the possessed mimick both the female O and also seizures. There's so many layers.
@@ladyredl3210 yes, men abuse women because women scare them. it's debatable however, whether abuse destroys a woman's power or perhaps amplifies, distorts and changes it? did they in this case, hypothetically, turn Regan into a docile creature/is that even possible, or is her sexual (or other type of) power yet to emerge in more glorious, or even vile form? the most disturbing thing is that the abuse began even before she would physically mature, or maybe it was around the time of her first menstruation (again, symbolically I believe the menstruation was represented in the scene when she was stabbing herself in the vaginal area, or maybe that was allusion to masturbation). meaning that Regan was "fruit that was cut at the root". or at least that was intended.
I used to think horror was a shallow genre before I saw Hereditary. Still not a horror fan but these three movies are amazing. They get to me emotionally because motherhood (and parenthood in general) is terrifying to me. Society idolizes mothers and severely punishes every transgression from this ideal. No place for a mom to be human: you are either perfect or a monster. All three leading actresses do an amazing job of showing their characters struggle with this. You analysis is great (and the jokes, and the outfit!), thank you for the video!
This was a great video essay! And your analysis on We Need To Talk About Kevin is incredibly interesting, especially re: Eva's lack of maternal warmth perhaps being communicated to Kevin, thus causing their cold and facade-like relationship, especially as a Social worker/psychotherapist. It's really sad to see, especially when it's communicated so often in this line of work, but your infant can absolutely pick up on a parent that is unaffectionate and disinterested; there are articles (on Avoidant Attachment) and studies that show toddlers adjusting their own behavior and becoming self reliant (as young as 2/3 !!) because they have already understood and internalized that their parent won't be showing them any affection... of course it's always a mix of nature/nurture, but it's so interesting to hear that unreliable narrator perspective, and find that perhaps Eva has played a role in Kevin being so unloving towards her.
Interesting to note that the mothers in the films you discussed all struggled to have a healthy bond with their sons. Meanwhile, the daughters and fathers are offed later on in the films.
Uploads are more frequent, your channel is rapidly growing, and your audience is becoming more loyal. Amazing to see. Once I watch all the films mentioned in the spoiler warnings, I'll watch this vid. So proud of all you've done for this channel, well done!
Not me going down the rabbithole of my Babadook trauma after concealing it successfully for so long. ~ Glad you talk about it tho. It's not a widely known or popular film.
extremely interesting topic. you just cant miss. i love this topic as how motherhood scares the shit out of me. i absolutely dont feel like that. i have niece and nephews and im in my early 20s. i LOVE them more than anything, in a way they saved my life. i was 14 when my first nephew and my niece were born. im closer to their age than my sisters. even those who were born when i turned 19 and by then im technically closer to age to my sisters than him i still dont feel motherly towards them when im hanging out with them. they dont even see me like they see their other aunt. im more of a their friend and their equal despite being older. i love kids but i never want to be a mother. in fact i would have loved to go into child care but i ended up as a mechanical engineer. also i absolutely simply loved babadook. it scared the shit out of me. amazing movie
Really loved this analysis! So interesting coming back to the babadook after watching it for the first time around age 13. I thought the scariest part back then was watching your parent disintegrate and not being able to do anything about it - watching it now I identify much more with Amelia and how painful it would be to lose a partner and still have to raise a child without them. So interesting how the lens you view these through changes with age and experience, I can only imagine these movies will only become more poignant as we come back to them throughout our lives.
That dinner table scene on Hereditary is the only thing in a movie that has ever triggered me, because that sort of break down happened at least weekly in my childhood home.
I don’t think a parent should say they hate their child to the kids face. Or that they don’t love the kid anymore, or that the kid ruins everything- don’t blame the kid. Tell them you got bad feelings, but it’s not there fault (cause y’know, they didn’t ask to be born) n tell a therapist all that shit. Unless ya want to create a very unpredictable person with emotional instability
yeahhhh while i agree that mothers are certaintly their own people and should be allowed to have their own complex feelings on things like motherhoood, obviously they should either try their best to raise their children as well as they can (bc none of this is the kids fault), or pack it up and leave. children dont deserve any pain, and its cruel to commit to doing that to a child
Another great example for this video would have been Mother! featuring Jennifer Lawrence :) I really love this concept, it was something I hadn't noticed until it was brought up, but after it was I couldn't stop making connections. Also, there's so much to talk about when it comes to We Need to Talk About Kevin. I love to think about the way Kevin was raised and how it's hard to tell if he was naturally psychopathic or if he could tell his mother didn't love him and it caused him to be that way. Amazing video with even more amazing movie examples!
I dunno if you know, but We Need to Talk About Kevin is actually about a real event and a real person, which was covered on an episode of Evil Lives Here. It’s pretty horrifying hearing the real mother’s story.
I love that we've finally come to a place where we can express and accept ALL the complex emotions that go with having a family, instead of just regurgitating the old false front of "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family".
I think all too often women/ caretaker figures are regulated to that being the only dimension of their personality that they can exhibit so when they rebel against this we find it horrifying or odd: a deviation from the norm
Awesome! I’m glad you mentioned Alien! I think that series as a lot about motherhood and birth throughout. I do wish you talked a little more about psycho. Motherhood is all over the horror genre, you made great points! Rosemary’s Baby and the Stepford Wives are also great examples imo.
incredible video! i understand why it wasn't talked about, but i feel like rosemary's baby is another great horror about the fear of motherhood, especially since a lot of people compare it to hereditary
Just quickly in the book Kevin wears clothes too small for him out of personal choice, it's a style he adopts (his mother views it as a personal attack). So I think the film was just doing that.
Children never asked to be born to begin with. What right does a parent have to tell their child that they never wanted them? What right does a parent have to resent a child that never asked to be there from the start?
Wow fantastic video. Thank you for speaking on this. It's so taboo to talk about this kind of subject matter, yet nearly everybody experiences some sort of mommy/daddy issues... and we joke about it like its nothing, but thinking about that more, humor is a way to deal with pain/trauma as well as sharing it. Tbh I'm still trying to figure out the latter... I always thought one wasn't supposed to spread their misery, don't make the others uncomfortable. And while yes, don't just go around upsetting people all like that, but everytime I've shared my pain with someone (be careful who you're sharing with tho) it's usually resulted in them telling me things that they've been through, things that have helped them, basically trauma bonding I guess.. idk sorry I'm a bit in my head after this haha. Anywho, amazing video. Much love
I remember the first and only time I've watched Hereditary. I remember where I watched it, who I was with, and every feeling I had while watching it. I specifically remember being sick to my stomach every time the mother interacted with the rest of her family. I know several people like her irl, along with how closely her behavior reminded me of my own mother's
The book almost implies that the small clothes are a comfort or self-soothing thing for Kevin- Eva thinks he has a desire to make himself uncomfortable, and he continues to wear them in prison where he steals them off smaller inmates.
All these movies terrify me because I KNOW I dont want to be a mother. I dont like children, I would rather die than having a big belly. It terrifies me. And what scares me the most is that maybe I'll have to be one one day because of my future partner. I dont think I would be a good mother and the thought of becoming a person like the characters of these movies terrifies me because thinking about scarring a kid with bad memories is just... bad, I dont think I would forgive myself if I became like them.
I think The Lodge (2019) could also count as an example, but it's more about the children being her stepchildren than her biological children, their resentment of her over their mother's suicide, and like the lengths they would go to in order to undermine Grace.
this was a really good video!!! you put into words exactly what made me enjoy these movies so much, even if i didn't quite understand the themes at the time of watching. i wasn't a big fan of hereditary because the ending threw me off, but the babadook and we need to talk about kevin are a couple of my favs for so many reasons!!!!
"Dead Blondes and Bad Mothers" by Jude Ellison Sady Doyle is a great book that goes into this theme across all forms of media, with an emphasis on horror because, well, of course!
Being CF is THE best decision I have made for my well being. It has allowed my life to be far less stressful than my counterparts. I was raised by a woman that didn't have the choice of abortion, and her parenting proved to both my sibling and I that being a mother was never her choice. It's a difficult thing to reconcile that, yes she is my mother, but she was also, overwhelmingly, my abuser. With the overturn of RvW, more children will become victims like me. It makes me so angry at the ignorance of our lawmakers, and incredibly fearful for the kids born, once again, to women who do not want them.
my mother really loved me and my sister, but as she worked at a corporation throughout our childhood ahe was unable to see our complexity, so my older sister was antagonised by her and I was the perfect kid. she still did a good job I think, to have little to no sleep, have two kids and few pets, constantly struggling with debt and to stay sane and be a rather good mother doing everything she could for us to grow up well educated and strong. I think it should be brought to light how being a mother, a single mother weighs on everyday life and that it is extremely difficult at times
I don’t think the goal should be parents being able to tell their kids they didn’t want to have them, I think the goal should be letting people decide for themselves, without outside pressure, if they want to be parents. I know for a fact that I will not enjoy being a parent, yet everybody wants to tell me that I am wrong. There are so many women out there who regret having their kids, but they can’t say it, I will not be one of them.
I was terrified I would be a mom like in We Need to Talk About Kevin, distant and resentful and miserable. It took me 10 years of actively surrounding myself with positive motherhood examples to decide if I wanted to have kids (due to my own mommy issues i guess). Eventually I decided I did, and it's been good... but I hate when people have kids just because and then the kids suffer for it.
Lake Mungo is another great movie about motherhood, though it may not seem like it on the surface. The core of that film was most definitely the daughter keeping secrets from her mother, which then only get revealed after her death. In the end, the movie closes on the mother believing that she has learned her daughter's secrets and can move on. However, there's a few hidden hints that in fact the mother does not find out the biggest secret, and the daughter is left forever waiting. This is most apparent in the last voice recording of both characters, where the mother envisions herself in her daughter's room and says 'she's not here anymore' symbolising the daughter has moved on. However, the daughter's same envisioning of herself in her bedroom says that 'her mother can't see her'.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it but Aronofsky’s ‘Mother!’ is a another movie that could be added to this conversation. It shows more of the other side of the story, the mother as the victim. It centres around a pregnant woman, who is symbolic for the blueprint of mothers, Mother Nature herself. I don’t like the movie personally but I respect what it was trying to accomplish.
You forgot to mention the movie Mother! With jennifer lawrence. It genouinly caused my psychological turmoil to the point I had to seek help professionally to calm down from it.
@winter legere i have its a clear metaphor of earth and god, Jesus and all that crazy eating the baby thing it is actually traumatizing. But how would it go with themes she is talking abt
@@ephratamekonnen1995 omg your literally so past far the meaning of that movie. The movies director and all actors have said in many interviews the entire movie is a manifestation of A MOTHERS WORST FEARS. Thanks for your shitty interpretation
@@ephratamekonnen1995 it perfectly goes with the themes. It. Is. A manifestation of a mothers worst fears. Lmao. Your a man so you clearly dont get that. I guess. It went right over your head when that was the ONLY message me, jennifer lawrence, the directors and producers, took out of the horror film lmao.
the entirety of this video reads as an academic, respectable video essay spitting facts and let me tell you when i got to the ending part about the babadook i straight up died. an iconic gut punch of humor (and just as much a fact as the rest of the vid)
Check out "The Birthday Party" segment of the 2017 horror anthology "XX". Some people don't even recognize it as horror, saying it's too bright/colorful and giving it bad reviews. But being a mother in that particular situation would be horrifying. It's worth a watch.
if you liked this video essay, i recommend the book “dead blondes and bad moms; monstrosity, patriarchy and the fear of female power” by sady doyle! it’s a great read for fans of horror
I'm not a horror person in any way whatsoever so this video was extremely interesting cuz I'm like I don't actually truly know what some of these movies were about 😅 Also I'm so happy you mentioned the "LGBT icon" part at the end cuz that's all I could think about during his entire section lmao
ur outfit is making me want a legit “mommy? sorry-“ shirt. that might come off weirdly bc i have a pretty excellent relationship with my mom… nonetheless i want 🤲🤲
*SPOILERS for babadook!* does anyone think the very ending of the movie was a false fantasy? remember how everything was PERFECT and bright and sunny? all their problems were solved and they were happy? well i always thought that that was because she murder suicided herself and her son and this was the delusion she was left with in purgatory to cope with what she had done. lol! i know its dark but its just how i interpreted the ending.✌
This was cool :) Psycho has been picked over but so has The Shining. Was wondering where that one fell in this discussion. Abused mother? Discounted mother?
The title is still the best thing I’ve ever read
Me too, definitely the best video title I've had the pleasure of reading all day!
Rosemary's Baby always scared the bejesus out of me as a child. To me, Rosemary's husband was even worse than the literal devil, since he actually set her up to have Satan's child, all without her knowledge!
The book's amazing too. It's by Ira Levin if you ever check it out, same person who authored The Brazilian Boys and The Stepford Wives :)
Exactly. That whole movie is about how Rosemary’s power and independence is stripped from her by her controlling husband, by her overbearing neighbors who think they know best (and who seek to exploit her), and by the doctor (recommended by her neighbors) who keeps telling her that her excruciating pain is normal.
@@dashingtherouxthesnow4017 The book is a great alternative if you don’t feel comfortable watching the film because the film is one of the truest adaptions of a book I’ve ever seen.
I agree with you about Rosemary's husband. But one thing that struck me about RB was how she had so little agency during her pregnancy. Everybody bossing her around and telling her what to do. When she's in pain - it's not taken seriously. She's reduced to a child, mocked by her doctor and ordered to drink this bonkers concoction by her next door neighbour who has zero medical qualifications. Nowadays hopefully a pregnant woman would look up her symptoms on google and if offered some disgusting drink by the old boot next door - she'd tell them to do one.
Rosemary was so abused and taken advantage of holy moly. To think it's directed by Roman Polanski of all people Jesus
As someone with LOTS of momma trauma I have to admit part of what is so great about mother-centric horror is that it often refuses to flinch while addressing the mother’s taboo feelings AND the child’s. We see exactly, in excruciating detail, how painful the toxic mother-child bond can get for both the parent and the child. Especially in hereditary imo
You actually put into words what I've been struggling to say for a while now. My mom was a terrible mother (much like Amelia early on in babadook, just without the good ending) and put me through a lot of trauma. That's kind of why it sucks seeing so much media glorify mother's and their relationship to their children when the onscreen relationship is just as toxic and damaging as mine was. Horror has really been the only genre that is not afraid to portray a more realistic relationship, and ironically more horrifying one, on screen.
Exactly this ^^^ as someone with mama trauma as well, Hereditary ruined my life 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've never understood why in real life and in stories like We Need To Talk About Kevin the mother doesn't just leave. My mom regretted having children and let me tell you, my childhood would've been much better without her presence. Abandoning your child is seen as the worst thing a mother can do, but I think the harm done by an uncaring caretaker is much worse. At least we have clear cultural narratives of how to deal with abandonment, there's little to no narratives about how to deal with being raised by someone who despises your existence. Even explaining it to a therapist is hard, because technically my mom was there and provided for my physical needs, so how do I explain feeling abandoned all the same?
the “abandonment” thing has always bothered me. my mom gave up custody of me when i was young, because she believed it would be for the best. i hate when moms are seen as instinctually super obsessive and coddling. whenever they show ambivalence or anything else, it’s seen as unnatural or evil even.
Feel this. And I think hearing more lately about this tangle of expectations for mothers has been enlightening me to things about my own mother that baffle me. I removed myself from her house at 14 after years of neglect and abuse, and she was heartbroken. Really actually told me I "tore her heart out and stomped on it" after blatantly resenting and despising me for my entire life. It's an outcome I didn't expect, and how could I? But in her eyes, she wasn't failing as a mother as long as she kept me. No matter how much she hated me or how badly she treated me, as long as she was feeding and clothing me, she was a good mom, and it was me who took that away from her. It's,,, all very wrapped up in this kind of societal expectation, I think.
You answered your own question. The mother doesn't leave, because abandoning her child is seen as the worst thing a mother can do.
Or just don’t have children. Society, family and friends put pressure on people(mostly women) that having kids is an expected next step in life or desire. Some go on to have their family and either cherish their children or subconsciously regret having them. I wish this was something more talked about for young adults that believe it’s the norm. That way they have the choice to either have or not have children if it’s not part of their lifestyle. Decisions like going to college, changing careers, moving across the country, drinking, etc have at least temporary effects to the individual. Having kids is permanent.
@@viv7810 that’s obviously a good idea an notion but sometimes women have motherhood forced upon them. They can be on contraception and still get pregnant, then not want to have an abortion. They can not be allowed to be on contraception by their family, religion/beliefs, etc. Obviously I agree if you don’t want kids you shouldn’t have them, but it’s not that easy.
You know what?
I love it when abusive mothers are portrayed as horrific and unsettling. Because, one, it's so inhumane to abuse a child, and two, it does feel like that in real life, like you're up against this horrific monster.
I think my mommy issues in real life have heavily influenced my taste in books.
drop some book reccs please
"Sometimes pain just want to be acknowledged." Holy shit that's brilliant. Incredibly insightful and very true.
I didn't watch the film, but I read We Need to Talk About Kevin. When Eva asks him why he did it, why he killed his father and sister and not her, he says that in a show, you don't off the audience (I read it in my own language, so that's a rough translation. Apologies to Lionel Shriver lol) That line encapsulates Eva's failure as a mother, how she was pressured into becoming one by her husband (and society at large), dooming her relationship with Kevin. The question of whether Kevin was born bad or became bad because he sensed how much his own mother resented his existence is never really resolved. The novel is amazing, is written in epistolary style and it's an incredible gut punch. Anyways, great video
Holy shit, the implication of calling Eva audience is mind boggling
@@debymello4756 Yeah. As the video mentions, Eva is a somewhat unreliable narrator, but that stuck with me. Everything Kevin did was some sort of revenge for being unwanted, which paints Eva as the bad guy. Motherhood as villainy.
@J. V. plus a few visual implications of not acknowleging problems untill they have festered (the red paint in the maps, the jelly sandwich with ants, etc.), pretty much like the compulsory motherhood wasn't acknowleged as it should and instead formed something that could only keep festering and festering
@J. V. You made me wanna rewatch the movie to catch onto this because I always sympathized with her
The fact that the book/movie even lends credence to the idea that a kid could be "born evil" makes it a hard pass for me. It pissed me off so much when I watched it.
Kids can't be born evil. They can be born with various impairments, which might look a bit like the pop culture notion of psycopathy, but mentally disabled and ill people are not more likely to be violent. So whether a person commits acts like Kevins' is all a matter of circumstance, learned behaviour and ideology
So I didnt catch it until the second time I watched the Babadook but I think Amelia made the story book herself. She wrote children's stories for a living before her husband died. Who is to say she didnt make the Babadook book and then leave it on her own door step then forget about it. I have depression and anxiety and because of that especially when I dont sleep my memory is really bad and unreliable and days tend to blend together. Amelia clearly is struggling with grief and depression so I think thats what happened cause the book is clearly real, her son sees it and everything. To this day The Babadook is one of my favorite horror films because of subtle details like this.
For sure totally agree. She has charcoal on her fingers when she is at the police station.
Carries powers are genetic. Carrie 2 The Rage explains this. The manifestation of her powers is what scared her mother. The mother believed Carrie's birth was a punishment. For having sex and liking it. Carries mom is an extreme case of internalized misogyny. She relies on her religion and has this constant guilt of the original sin.
Carrie 2 The Rage isnt exactly the only canon
this is also talked about a LOT more in the book, would recommend
My mother would literally call herself Mommy Dearest, it's insane how self aware some parents are of their own abuse. She almost revelled in it
Those 'mothers' are beyond help.
My mom is overprotective to the point that it is a problem, and certainly is also manipulative and kinda paranoic too. But when you call her out on her (toxic) overprotectiveness, she seems almost proud of it. Like a sort of "yes, I take care of my children!!!". No. You lock them up in a cage while making up excuses as to why they're there, and then also try make them feel bad about it when they try to get out and live as themselves a little. It's not the same
OMG this topic reminds me of Little fires everywhere. The way Elena hates her youngest daughter Izzy is terrifying, but we also get a flashback as to why she resents her daughter. She even ends up saying she never wanted her in izzy’s face and around her older children. There’s also Bebe kidnapping her baby after giving her up for adoption, and mia just being a questionable mother. I feel like little fires everywhere literally revolves around the mothers and would be a great addition to the topic of mommy issues and such. Although the show surrounds the issue of racism, the moms and their mothering skills have such a large part in the entire plot. It explores motherhood, the one who wants to protect her child, the one who hates her child, and the one who tried their best, but was unable to protect their child.
^^^^ literally yes
Sounds like an interesting read I might check it out!
The way I went to my subscriptions and went “oh cool! Shanspeare and Film Fatales both did a video on motherhood :D” and then was shocked when I heard collaboration haha
lol same here
Me too, I just thought that it was "Great Minds thinking Alike", until I realised that it was a collaboration!
American gothic horror, mostly a genre by and for women despite the most famous writers being men like Herman Melville and Edgar Allen Poe, has a history of portraying the horror of motherhood. The creepy little victorian child ghost, or the haunted doll, come down to us from ghostly stories about fear and anxiety surrounding motherhood for women, which bear in mind was even more deadly to women then.
Was "bear in mind" accidental genius or deliberate?
The son in The Babadook fucking NAILED that role. He brought me to tears more than once.
I love this and I love that you added Scream in as well! "Maternal abandonment causes serious deviant behavior. It certainly fucked you up. It made you have sex with a psychopath."
Story time, once, when my mother tought she was being attacked by a dog (the dog wasn't attacking, it was just a really big dog trying to play) shetook me and put me in front of her touse me as a shield. She is a great mother, and I know she love me and my brother deeply.What I'm trying to say is that, yes, there is a instinct to protect your kids, but this mistified mother instinct that is stronger than anything else is bullshit.
That uh.....doesn't sound like a good parent in fact i'm pretty sure that's counts as child endangerment. Why tf wouldn't she wait with you in the house and wait until the dog left? Literally throwing your child out to be possibly mauled by a dog is some evil shit.
@@prixe12 because we were outside, first of all. You just assumed we were in a safe place and she threw me out for no reason, Innever said that. Second, that was pure instinct, she didn't make the choice of sacrificing me to the dog. Survival instincts kicked in and she took the only thing near to use as a defense.
@@EspiritoDeDafne That's still super fucked up though, she could've picked up and ran. Or kicked the dog not to mention she still more or less sacrificed you to it seeing as how she literally used you as a human shield. That's super sus bro.
@@prixe12 Did you read the part in wich I said it was instinctive and not a conscious decision? As I said, she is a good mother, when she's not moved purely by instict, I can live with the fact that my mother won't fight a wild beast for me
uhh no, that's not normal and that's actually pretty bad!
There also the horror movie “Mother” which specifically centers around Mother Earth and the experience of a woman’s authority being stripped away
Everybody know the "B" in LGBT stand for Babadook
It's been only 2 weeks since I first discovered your channel, searching for videos on Shiva Baby. Having binged all your releases, including those about media I've never had any interest on, I can tell I'll be around here for a very long time
Ik this is because of the meme but grief and family trauma being a part of the LGBTQ+ community is fitting
Guess I’m a babadook now lol
Guess I’m possessed by Babadook
It's true. That's how all bisexuals are. I would know, I am one.
Girl no it doesn’t tf
Love all these films, they’re horrific but with an emotional punch. In TV, my favorite “non-horror” mother characters who still scare me would be Livia Soprano & Beatrice Horseman
I like Beatrice as a character. But rather than scare me, it makes me feel pity for her and her family. Specialy after knowing why she ended up being like that.
@@kiriki4558 Good point & I agree. The Time's Arrow episode especially is horrifyingly tragic. In a different episode where she tells BoJack "you were born broken" punches me in the gut tho lmao
@@violetslit Really like Beatrice Horseman as a character too, but some of the things in her relationship with Bojack hit too close to home.
@@violetslit as well as the funeral episode, where it's just Bojack talking about his relationship to his mother. The ICU thing broke me.
The mommy issues in the haunting of hill house are so funky for me, I don't have the words to articulate it but I am a big fan
Shirley Jackson is an incredible author. I’m learning about her now in year 12 English, specifically the lottery, the summer people and we have always lived in the castle. Her writing always seems to include themes of motherhood or woman hood in general. She also has autobiographical books about being a mother which shine a light on the difficulties of it, identifiable by the name (she refers to them as demons or devils in the title ). I have read or watched the haunting of hill house but it doesn’t surprise me that she discussed motherhood in a taboo way
The belief that all women want biological children and won't be fulfilled without them is why I was denied a hysterectomy for nearly 10 years. A medically justified treatment for my stage 4 Endometriosis. Starting around age 19-20 I began visiting doctor after doctor, including Mayo Clinic, Duke University Hospital, and Northwestern Memorial Hospital. Every damn time all I got was 'Well, don't you want children?" Or, even better, "What if you get married and he wants kids?" Yes, please put me in charge of caring for an infant while I'm being thrown multiple opioid medications, including 75mcg Fentanyl patches, and also have Major Depressive Disorder with 2 s**cide attempts by that point. That sounds like a fabulous idea.
the medical resistance to afab people is insane and ridiculous. they act like they know you, your life, and your future, despite literally just being your doctor. im a young adult and am also looking towards getting a similar procedure, and it scares me how much time and money is likely going to be spent convincing doctors that what i want is what i want. i hope you got the procedure you wanted and that its all worked out well for you
You can always adopt one. 10 years when you didn't even want that..
Highly recommend the podcast The Monstrous Feminine if you want more analysis of mothers in horror! Also talks about lgbt rep/tropes, bipoc, femininity, and more, in horror film. Very good and entertaining.
This is semi-unrelated but whenever I head the Babadook mentioned I have an urge to tell everyone about another Aussie horror movie called Lake Mungo, it’s a mockumentary and it’s so good and sad, it does have a complicated mother daughter relationship at the center of it too. I hope I get more good horror films from my home country.
Lake Mungo is so good! I first heard of it from Ryan Hollinger 😊
omg i’ve been waiting for this one
Oh god this is perfect
I did my honours thesis on women in horror! I was focusing on queer women in horror but if anyone in the comments is interested in reading more on motherhood in horror then i really recommend “The Monstrous Feminine” by Barbara Creed! Esp chapter 2 “Horror and the Archaic Mother; Alien” and chapter 4 “Woman as Possessed Womb; The Brood” which is a free pdf that's not too hard to find 💖
As an adult woman that has never wanted children (love kids, I'm a teacher) and my husband who feels the same, we were very confused when everyone said Babadook was about grief. Upon watching that movie, it seemed so clear that is was about the horror of being a parent. The exhaustion, isolation, depression, hopelessness, constant judgement. The Babadook is how adults with no children imagine how parenthood must feel. That being said, I think that's what makes a good horror, its open to diff interpretations. ***Also, I agree with others, I think she made the book. The book is like a really hardcore version of The Giving Tree.
When you started to talk about We Need to Talk about Kevin, I immediately stopped the video, watched the movie (which was awesome, thanks for the tip) and resumed your video for the five minutes of analysis. Was worth it.
11:45 i feel like hereditary and the babadook share vaules of a nostalgia that comes with grief. growing up motherhood felt like a very inevitable thing. when amelia decides to have her child she doesnt think she'll have to raise them alone. shes grieving her husband and a chance to live a diverse life. i feel like when annie had peter she was in a confident place of knowing her mom was a bad person and a bad parent but feel back into questioning that statement when she failed to form a connection with him.
I never thought about We Need To Talk About Kevin like that! Having the context from the book makes the story even more interesting, and highlights my greatest fear regarding ever becoming a parent. I don't want kids, I don't really like kids, and all my life I've been told I'll change my mind when I get older. I haven't, and the idea of ever being pressured into having children terrifies me because I don't want to be like the mother in We Need To Talk About Kevin. The context gives a whole new layer of fear to that story that otherwise went over my head.
I've been saying for years that the Exorcist was an anti feminist film, in dialog with the era in which it was made (the 1970s). Thank you for helping me not feel so nuts.
when you think about the true meaning of the first exorcist, it's about two adult men sexually abusing a little girl.
@@ThePitchblue yes. It's also about male fear of female power and sexuality. The proxasums of the possessed mimick both the female O and also seizures. There's so many layers.
@@ladyredl3210 yes, men abuse women because women scare them. it's debatable however, whether abuse destroys a woman's power or perhaps amplifies, distorts and changes it? did they in this case, hypothetically, turn Regan into a docile creature/is that even possible, or is her sexual (or other type of) power yet to emerge in more glorious, or even vile form? the most disturbing thing is that the abuse began even before she would physically mature, or maybe it was around the time of her first menstruation (again, symbolically I believe the menstruation was represented in the scene when she was stabbing herself in the vaginal area, or maybe that was allusion to masturbation). meaning that Regan was "fruit that was cut at the root". or at least that was intended.
@@ThePitchblue gosh, maybe. I never thought of that.
Could you please explain how.
I used to think horror was a shallow genre before I saw Hereditary. Still not a horror fan but these three movies are amazing. They get to me emotionally because motherhood (and parenthood in general) is terrifying to me. Society idolizes mothers and severely punishes every transgression from this ideal. No place for a mom to be human: you are either perfect or a monster. All three leading actresses do an amazing job of showing their characters struggle with this. You analysis is great (and the jokes, and the outfit!), thank you for the video!
This was a great video essay! And your analysis on We Need To Talk About Kevin is incredibly interesting, especially re: Eva's lack of maternal warmth perhaps being communicated to Kevin, thus causing their cold and facade-like relationship, especially as a Social worker/psychotherapist. It's really sad to see, especially when it's communicated so often in this line of work, but your infant can absolutely pick up on a parent that is unaffectionate and disinterested; there are articles (on Avoidant Attachment) and studies that show toddlers adjusting their own behavior and becoming self reliant (as young as 2/3 !!) because they have already understood and internalized that their parent won't be showing them any affection... of course it's always a mix of nature/nurture, but it's so interesting to hear that unreliable narrator perspective, and find that perhaps Eva has played a role in Kevin being so unloving towards her.
Interesting to note that the mothers in the films you discussed all struggled to have a healthy bond with their sons. Meanwhile, the daughters and fathers are offed later on in the films.
Just throwing in that The Babadook is considered an LGBT icon at the end there 👌
Uploads are more frequent, your channel is rapidly growing, and your audience is becoming more loyal. Amazing to see. Once I watch all the films mentioned in the spoiler warnings, I'll watch this vid. So proud of all you've done for this channel, well done!
Not me going down the rabbithole of my Babadook trauma after concealing it successfully for so long. ~
Glad you talk about it tho. It's not a widely known or popular film.
extremely interesting topic. you just cant miss. i love this topic as how motherhood scares the shit out of me. i absolutely dont feel like that. i have niece and nephews and im in my early 20s. i LOVE them more than anything, in a way they saved my life. i was 14 when my first nephew and my niece were born. im closer to their age than my sisters. even those who were born when i turned 19 and by then im technically closer to age to my sisters than him i still dont feel motherly towards them when im hanging out with them. they dont even see me like they see their other aunt. im more of a their friend and their equal despite being older. i love kids but i never want to be a mother. in fact i would have loved to go into child care but i ended up as a mechanical engineer.
also i absolutely simply loved babadook. it scared the shit out of me. amazing movie
Really loved this analysis! So interesting coming back to the babadook after watching it for the first time around age 13. I thought the scariest part back then was watching your parent disintegrate and not being able to do anything about it - watching it now I identify much more with Amelia and how painful it would be to lose a partner and still have to raise a child without them. So interesting how the lens you view these through changes with age and experience, I can only imagine these movies will only become more poignant as we come back to them throughout our lives.
Great video! You and Shanspeare are so underrated
That dinner table scene on Hereditary is the only thing in a movie that has ever triggered me, because that sort of break down happened at least weekly in my childhood home.
ELLEN OMG!! the fit is immaculate 😍😍
I don’t think a parent should say they hate their child to the kids face. Or that they don’t love the kid anymore, or that the kid ruins everything- don’t blame the kid. Tell them you got bad feelings, but it’s not there fault (cause y’know, they didn’t ask to be born) n tell a therapist all that shit. Unless ya want to create a very unpredictable person with emotional instability
yeahhhh while i agree that mothers are certaintly their own people and should be allowed to have their own complex feelings on things like motherhoood, obviously they should either try their best to raise their children as well as they can (bc none of this is the kids fault), or pack it up and leave. children dont deserve any pain, and its cruel to commit to doing that to a child
Another great example for this video would have been Mother! featuring Jennifer Lawrence :) I really love this concept, it was something I hadn't noticed until it was brought up, but after it was I couldn't stop making connections.
Also, there's so much to talk about when it comes to We Need to Talk About Kevin. I love to think about the way Kevin was raised and how it's hard to tell if he was naturally psychopathic or if he could tell his mother didn't love him and it caused him to be that way. Amazing video with even more amazing movie examples!
I dunno if you know, but We Need to Talk About Kevin is actually about a real event and a real person, which was covered on an episode of Evil Lives Here. It’s pretty horrifying hearing the real mother’s story.
You're going to be getting that silver play button before you know it, love your work!
I love that we've finally come to a place where we can express and accept ALL the complex emotions that go with having a family, instead of just regurgitating the old false front of "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family".
I think all too often women/ caretaker figures are regulated to that being the only dimension of their personality that they can exhibit so when they rebel against this we find it horrifying or odd: a deviation from the norm
Awesome! I’m glad you mentioned Alien! I think that series as a lot about motherhood and birth throughout. I do wish you talked a little more about psycho. Motherhood is all over the horror genre, you made great points! Rosemary’s Baby and the Stepford Wives are also great examples imo.
You need so many more subscribers!!! I enjoy and look forward to all your videos!
incredible video! i understand why it wasn't talked about, but i feel like rosemary's baby is another great horror about the fear of motherhood, especially since a lot of people compare it to hereditary
We need to talk about Kevin, fucked me up more than any of the other movies mentioned.
Just quickly in the book Kevin wears clothes too small for him out of personal choice, it's a style he adopts (his mother views it as a personal attack). So I think the film was just doing that.
How did no one mention chi no wadachi (blood on the tracks)! It's the scariest manga I've ever read, legit threw up from fear while reading it.
That manga legit fits into the conversation, although I don't think that this channel's demographic would be into manga.
Children never asked to be born to begin with. What right does a parent have to tell their child that they never wanted them? What right does a parent have to resent a child that never asked to be there from the start?
Wow fantastic video. Thank you for speaking on this. It's so taboo to talk about this kind of subject matter, yet nearly everybody experiences some sort of mommy/daddy issues... and we joke about it like its nothing, but thinking about that more, humor is a way to deal with pain/trauma as well as sharing it. Tbh I'm still trying to figure out the latter... I always thought one wasn't supposed to spread their misery, don't make the others uncomfortable. And while yes, don't just go around upsetting people all like that, but everytime I've shared my pain with someone (be careful who you're sharing with tho) it's usually resulted in them telling me things that they've been through, things that have helped them, basically trauma bonding I guess.. idk sorry I'm a bit in my head after this haha. Anywho, amazing video. Much love
I remember the first and only time I've watched Hereditary. I remember where I watched it, who I was with, and every feeling I had while watching it. I specifically remember being sick to my stomach every time the mother interacted with the rest of her family. I know several people like her irl, along with how closely her behavior reminded me of my own mother's
The book almost implies that the small clothes are a comfort or self-soothing thing for Kevin- Eva thinks he has a desire to make himself uncomfortable, and he continues to wear them in prison where he steals them off smaller inmates.
All these movies terrify me because I KNOW I dont want to be a mother. I dont like children, I would rather die than having a big belly. It terrifies me. And what scares me the most is that maybe I'll have to be one one day because of my future partner. I dont think I would be a good mother and the thought of becoming a person like the characters of these movies terrifies me because thinking about scarring a kid with bad memories is just... bad, I dont think I would forgive myself if I became like them.
hey boo, you don’t need to do anything for a future partner. That’s why we talk about this early in the relationship so you’re both on the same page ✨
I think The Lodge (2019) could also count as an example, but it's more about the children being her stepchildren than her biological children, their resentment of her over their mother's suicide, and like the lengths they would go to in order to undermine Grace.
this was a really good video!!! you put into words exactly what made me enjoy these movies so much, even if i didn't quite understand the themes at the time of watching. i wasn't a big fan of hereditary because the ending threw me off, but the babadook and we need to talk about kevin are a couple of my favs for so many reasons!!!!
The Brood is a great movie with similar themes you have discussed! The Babadook was so sad to me as a mum. Great video!
Just came from Shanspeare's video. Love your content 💕
I'm new to the channel but OMG I already love it, you're videos are so cool!
"Dead Blondes and Bad Mothers" by Jude Ellison Sady Doyle is a great book that goes into this theme across all forms of media, with an emphasis on horror because, well, of course!
Being CF is THE best decision I have made for my well being. It has allowed my life to be far less stressful than my counterparts. I was raised by a woman that didn't have the choice of abortion, and her parenting proved to both my sibling and I that being a mother was never her choice. It's a difficult thing to reconcile that, yes she is my mother, but she was also, overwhelmingly, my abuser. With the overturn of RvW, more children will become victims like me. It makes me so angry at the ignorance of our lawmakers, and incredibly fearful for the kids born, once again, to women who do not want them.
my mother really loved me and my sister, but as she worked at a corporation throughout our childhood ahe was unable to see our complexity, so my older sister was antagonised by her and I was the perfect kid. she still did a good job I think, to have little to no sleep, have two kids and few pets, constantly struggling with debt and to stay sane and be a rather good mother doing everything she could for us to grow up well educated and strong. I think it should be brought to light how being a mother, a single mother weighs on everyday life and that it is extremely difficult at times
this was a really well put together video, glad i found your channel!
I don’t think the goal should be parents being able to tell their kids they didn’t want to have them, I think the goal should be letting people decide for themselves, without outside pressure, if they want to be parents. I know for a fact that I will not enjoy being a parent, yet everybody wants to tell me that I am wrong. There are so many women out there who regret having their kids, but they can’t say it, I will not be one of them.
I was terrified I would be a mom like in We Need to Talk About Kevin, distant and resentful and miserable. It took me 10 years of actively surrounding myself with positive motherhood examples to decide if I wanted to have kids (due to my own mommy issues i guess). Eventually I decided I did, and it's been good... but I hate when people have kids just because and then the kids suffer for it.
you should commentate on ‘the lost daughter’ - it talks a lot about societal expectations of mothers!!
So happy I’m early. This speaks to my soul in layers. I’m a mom with mom issues.
Lake Mungo is another great movie about motherhood, though it may not seem like it on the surface. The core of that film was most definitely the daughter keeping secrets from her mother, which then only get revealed after her death. In the end, the movie closes on the mother believing that she has learned her daughter's secrets and can move on. However, there's a few hidden hints that in fact the mother does not find out the biggest secret, and the daughter is left forever waiting. This is most apparent in the last voice recording of both characters, where the mother envisions herself in her daughter's room and says 'she's not here anymore' symbolising the daughter has moved on. However, the daughter's same envisioning of herself in her bedroom says that 'her mother can't see her'.
It's interest that they tackled this. And it's refreshing to see this perspective.
yes i am so here for this
Found you via shanspeare and finally found the time to start working theough your channel and the suspense was worth it your fabulous
I don’t know if you’ve seen it but Aronofsky’s ‘Mother!’ is a another movie that could be added to this conversation. It shows more of the other side of the story, the mother as the victim. It centres around a pregnant woman, who is symbolic for the blueprint of mothers, Mother Nature herself. I don’t like the movie personally but I respect what it was trying to accomplish.
ur literally so underrated, ur videos r the best!
These movies were a key to my indoctrination into the child free lifestyle
"Let's talk about Mommy Issues." (Intro music)
I like this girl, she's funny.
(subbed)
damn I was about to say 'you should make a movie about parent being abusive :D that was close enough
You forgot to mention the movie Mother! With jennifer lawrence. It genouinly caused my psychological turmoil to the point I had to seek help professionally to calm down from it.
@winter legere i have its a clear metaphor of earth and god, Jesus and all that crazy eating the baby thing it is actually traumatizing. But how would it go with themes she is talking abt
@@ephratamekonnen1995 omg your literally so past far the meaning of that movie. The movies director and all actors have said in many interviews the entire movie is a manifestation of A MOTHERS WORST FEARS. Thanks for your shitty interpretation
@@ephratamekonnen1995 it perfectly goes with the themes. It. Is. A manifestation of a mothers worst fears. Lmao. Your a man so you clearly dont get that. I guess. It went right over your head when that was the ONLY message me, jennifer lawrence, the directors and producers, took out of the horror film lmao.
Geez, i am a woman and im sorry to trigger u but i was in an open genuine conversation
@@saadbunni what is wrong with you lol
the entirety of this video reads as an academic, respectable video essay spitting facts and let me tell you when i got to the ending part about the babadook i straight up died. an iconic gut punch of humor (and just as much a fact as the rest of the vid)
There is a very good psychological horror manga called Trail of Blood by Shuzo Oshimi that fits perfectly with this.
an instant subscribe, motherhood in horror is one of my favorite topics to info dump on and this was great!
I can’t believe the Badadook is our new hope for gay rights ✨
Check out "The Birthday Party" segment of the 2017 horror anthology "XX". Some people don't even recognize it as horror, saying it's too bright/colorful and giving it bad reviews. But being a mother in that particular situation would be horrifying. It's worth a watch.
if you liked this video essay, i recommend the book “dead blondes and bad moms; monstrosity, patriarchy and the fear of female power” by sady doyle! it’s a great read for fans of horror
Thanks for the rec!
Great video !
Two incredible films somewhat related to motherhood also came out last year: Relic and Swallow. Some of the best movies of the decade.
You could argue Alien doubles as mommy horror bc the xenomorph basically impregnates you with itself
What a fantastic video ! You guys nailed this subject and I’ve learned a all lot so thank you 🙏🏾🖤
I'm not a horror person in any way whatsoever so this video was extremely interesting cuz I'm like I don't actually truly know what some of these movies were about 😅
Also I'm so happy you mentioned the "LGBT icon" part at the end cuz that's all I could think about during his entire section lmao
This was a fantastic video. I wouldn't mind a video on Rosemary's Baby someday if you have anything to say on that film.
ur outfit is making me want a legit “mommy? sorry-“ shirt. that might come off weirdly bc i have a pretty excellent relationship with my mom… nonetheless i want 🤲🤲
*SPOILERS for babadook!*
does anyone think the very ending of the movie was a false fantasy? remember how everything was PERFECT and bright and sunny? all their problems were solved and they were happy? well i always thought that that was because she murder suicided herself and her son and this was the delusion she was left with in purgatory to cope with what she had done.
lol! i know its dark but its just how i interpreted the ending.✌
Can you do a video on pen15 after your teen TV vid I rlly wanna see a full video on it
I would love this!!
Loveeee this video wow , made me love these films even more and answers some questions as to why they scare me so much
This was cool :) Psycho has been picked over but so has The Shining. Was wondering where that one fell in this discussion. Abused mother? Discounted mother?
Amazing video!!! Please do a second part
You should check out Rozsika Parker's psychoanalytic writings on ambivalence in motherhood!
raising a child with no help, no community of women is the real horror