This is what made 90's hip hop beats different
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- in this quick video I discuss the myths and truths about 90's hip-hop beats and the producers and samplers that made all the difference. It includes a deep dive into the Akai MPC60, MPC3000 and others. Mentioned are JDILLA, RZA, Swizz Beatz, Stevie J and others that I worked with a bunch.
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TONY BLACK is a Grammy-winning music producer, mixer/engineer & songwriter/musician. He has contributed to recordings totaling more than 80 million units sold or downloaded.
He won a GRAMMY AWARD for his contribution to the album “THE DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS” for BEST R&B ALBUM.
He also mixed and recorded “RIDE OR DIE” on the Grammy-winning album JAY-Z “HARD KNOCK LIFE VOL.2”
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I'll try to keep up with this and get into some more soon, thanks for the engagement.
Why not release a sample pack ? That would be great
@@mustardegg2 go dig for your sounds…
lOVE THIS 90S HIP HOP INSIGHT. WE NEED MORE !!
You don't half talk a lot of shite. You make some good points then just waffle all over them
Nice video. Did you hear the new Premier with Common called "In Moe"
I thought it had a great beat, I would even rank it in his top maybe 40 beats
There is also the new Rakim. He had said in an interview at another time that he produced about 80% of the betas in his his catalog.
The new song is "Be Ill" . It's kind of minimal. Hard to tell if there is any bass on it. It has what sounds like a an old mysterious film soundtrack, a short clip of strings and maybe an oboe, and another sample of a woman singing a couple of notes. Those elements are kind of minimal
The track is mainly a loud boom bap drum beat. It sounds like a very familiar beat but to me it's the best recording of one of these beats I ever heard
and it really swings with funkiness. Am I reading to much into it? Do you think it's just a decent sample but nothing special?
I was thinking maybe he had a drummer play it and looped it. Could it be midi? I don't know enough about production to make a good guess.
The overall beat style, the whole song is typical Rakim, like it could have been form the 90s and he did his usual mystical-ish rapping on it and it also has Korrupt and Masta Killa.
I don;t think it's anything specials for 2024 but it's pretty good as a teaser for the album and the drum sounds great. As you proabal;y know he going to drop and album that's mainly him producing other artists. He says he's an MPC aficionado
Engineers the unsung heroes of 90s hiphop
Absolutely. I used to check credits for engineers in the 80s and 90s. Joe ‘the butcher’ Nicolo, Howie Weinberg , Bob Power and a host of others that I can’t remember, due to my age!
Still are now, especially today the beats are carrying these “rappers”
Engineers are unsung heroes of any thing ever
@@RL-xf2fydude, I came to talk about joe the butcher lol. But yeah, I was doing the same after cypress hill, black Sunday album.
Considering your background and work experience, I really appreciate your time breaking all this down. In light of all these video's that attempt to demonstrate Dillas' technique. One thing almost none of them mention is the most important thing but you said it, "You dont have Dillas' ear" I salute you for that alone!
much appreciated-tb
Thanks for the reminder of how special the 90s were in Hip-Hop. Creativity was at an amazing peak for producers back then.
it CANT come back because it was made by different people with different background in a different age group...i dont nderstand this hangup with hip hop...that sliek saying we want "New Wave" to come back...as if Adam Ant, Cyndy Lauper, Duran Duran and Culture Club can becomne 20 years old agin...
music keep smoving..hip hop doesnt exist anymore...just liek my grandad listend to BB King, Huddy Ledbetter, which turned into Little Richard which turned into James Brown for my parents which turned into Donna Sumemr and Disco or Jimmy HEndrix...
you guys need to stop with this trying to recapture the past...music lives in the current of whatever HONEST spirit creates it at the MOMENT...it doesnt stay in one place or even go backward
I have the mpc live 2. It does so many things that don’t interest me but it does one thing I love and that is chopping music into beats. I’m a total novice but I feel that after playing music and playing in bands for 30 plus years, this creativity still inspires me.
Learn it, it’s worth it. Trust me. Watch Tubedigga vids
This is real knowledge from an actual professional. Earned a sub.
do not take tips from this guy, hahaha
I remember one of the old engineers at recording school talking about all this stuff. But it wasn't in class, just an off the cuff conversation in the hallway. I feel like I learned more techniques and tricks from over hearing this guy reminisce than any of the actual classes. Specifically processing drums through the console and using the tone generator to add a sine wave sub-bass to kicks. printing Time code to tape may be less relevant now but knowing about how it works is so important especially when understanding how many things where designed to sync . Thanks for keeping this kind of knowledge out there. The "lore" is important and informative.
13:24 I STILL do this. Not with the tech from the 90s but I will often times take my sample I am using and do exactly what you described here. So funny that this is just a known technique that people have done forever now. Glad i stumbled onto your channel.
Great conversation! Thank you!
This was great! More hip hop talk please
Ha ha, true. Incidentally I took an old track that was mixed with SMPTE chasing, put into Cubase Pro and did tempo mapping. The tempo drift I saw blew my mind. Even old drum machines on their own clock moves around a little.
high-value content. thank you for uploading.
this is gold. thank you so much for sharing.
Loved hearing your knowledge
And nice tip at the end
Damn I had no idea that the MPC had 96 pulses per quarter note. Thanks for taking the time to upload this and share the knowledge. Amazing.
The new ones have 96 or you can set it to have 960. So the old school way or much more resolution.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing!
Fantastic video, my man! Eye-opening, for sure.
Instant sub! Keep these vids up Tony, some of us need these discussions/lessons!
Great video, I appreciate your insight. I've read that Paul's Boutique would lose around 20 million if it was made today factoring in the cost of the over 100 samples having to be cleared. I understand they did clear the samples back then (eventually) but the cost was much lower at the time, around $250,000. Subbed.
A lot of those beats were Dust brothers beats that were going to be released as a stand alone project. The Beasties heard the album before release and asked to use them on Paul Boutique.
Love this guy! On point with the drifting. Akai vs Roland. Great video.!
Great insights thank you!
Thank you for some of the gems you dropped. There is a lot ideas of how to do sound design and tape saturation to enhance sounds!
Thanks for the insight Tony! Love all the Mixing, Mastering, Quantization, Sample usage, Hard Work, HOURS spent, etc that yall used and continue to use to make the magic happen. God Bless! 🙏 for more cups of coffee coming your way!
I think you're on to something with this drift theory
it is nerdy, but in a musical way, it makes perfect sense. I'm going to do a little more about the MPC again soon.
Dude that is gold!!!!!
You popped up in my feed today.awesome.subscribed.
I’m hitting the subscribe button! Please keep sharing the knowledge and stories!
Very informative. I love this type of stuff.
I don't know what happened in the last 10-15 years but the coffee machine industry has been cutting MAJOR corners. It's absolutely ASTOUNDING how terrible modern coffee machines are. The old Cuisinart ones from the earlier 2000s are built like tanks. One of the biggest regrets in my life was ditching my old one for something new, Thanks for the pro tip, I'll keep my eyes peeled in the thrilft shops ;)
Thanks for explaining the mult's process.
it seems like I might have to get into it a bit more...it was a big part of things for sure.
it was the influence of jazz vibes, jazz grooves and jazz samples that made the 1990s for Hiphop so good, Jazz music is the Usa most famous music around the world. Hiphop producers rediscovered it again and inserted into the hiphop program
as a guy who plays jazz, i'm grateful for hip hop bringing those sounds and chords back to pop music.
@@jimmythebold589 just listen to the albums from the group called A Tribe called Quest...Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders.... for starters...
this is great. thank you!
You’re so right about the “drift” of the 60/3K.
But I never knew why.
Even “stiff” songs like Mary J/ Dr Dre “Family Affair” had live feel movement. (3K).
You’d have to listen to the whole song to notice it.
There were times when I’d be driving when it would dawn on me….
“That’s an MPC!”
Out of nowhere.
So subtle.
Hey, I wonder what the human brain’s timing resolution is set to?
Ray Charles could detect the slightest “drift” in his band and would get pissed off when it missed.
James Brown also.
I kinda have that sensitivity.
You can keep your notes.
If the timing ain’t right you failed 😂.
So drum machines? Love at first listen.
As far back as Sly Stones family affair.
Awesome info cheers!!!!
Valuable insight. 👍🏽
thanks and happy it worked for ya.
Such insight into the process of classic beat making and also a coffee machine review.
Once you dive in to the MPC3000’s ‘timing correct’ settings you can find the right way to nudge your kicks and snares and get that “Dilla” timing.
This is why the dilla time book was full of shit and i told people to read it with a grain of salt … dilla quantized … i know this because i own a 60 with a 3000 brain and “dilla” time is easy to replicate
Most people who buy vintage gear have 0 idea how to use it or even tuff it out and learn
@@Darie2006 can you show an example of that? Show how is easy to replicate Dilla? Thanks
@@DMS8410 i mean look at the shear amount of producers and beatmakers today that use the “dilla” time today you would understand its not hard… you need to understand time correct… start there…. There is a lot of songs that are mistaken for dilla….
Congrats Tony B 😊🎉🎈 🥳
it could make me blush
Thanks for demystifying this.
I know he is successful, but Swizz Beatz tracks just don't do it for me, except for some of the DMX stuff. Tried listening to the LOX second album ( we are the streets)and them beats are Casio keyboard sounding and have not aged well at all. Thin and weak dollar shop sound
He has a unique style, technique...I can't disagree, but the winners write the history books.
Roland jv2080
@@raypeakes4600 I guess you know the story of someone who sampled the trumpet demo? Swizz used MPC, Trinity and 2080...maybe 1080 too. He had an odd way of sampling
@@TonyBlackNYC I was surprised when I bought my JV that the audition loop was a swizz beats banger. That's the sign of a great piece of inspiration
@@raypeakes4600 thats not really the way it went down...its quite a story, look into it.
let me know if you find out.
This was interesting… keep doing them 💪🏾
ThankS for this man
Damn, he answers all the questions i had since 20 years making Beats!
Wow when I think I remember that I was using cassettes to record the cv to run sequencers you make me feel real old :)))))
Just discovered your channels and subscribed. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Sir this is an excellent video i must say
Nice info
Great information 💎🫶
Thank you Tony Black
Great stuff Tony Black! Good to see this.
I know you! thanks!
@@TonyBlackNYCYes! You do know me and I you😂! Man so good to see you making these insights available to people who love the music creation process!
Yes, nudging was done to add feel, but many samples weren't sampled cleanly, and any extra space before a sample's initial transient would change a sample's timing. It's virtually impossible to edit samples cleanly on most samplers before the mid-90s, as few provided visual waveform representation.
Also, the resolutions of low sample rate samples are low. So, there is no capacity for truly fine-pitch sample editing.
you hit some key points...I'll attempt to get into them in the future vids. thanks. tb
This isn’t true … at all i chop on a dime beat in my 60 no pops or clicks … you should use one some time and same with an sp1200
To get right on the sample start point, I would drop the sample a couple octaves, tweak start point, and listen for the pop. A pain, but it worked.
@@mikemeengs5720 or you could hit record as the sample begins
🔥Thank you.
can we get a pt 2 of this process as you do it?
I figured out about the MPC drift because my old soundcard had only 1 stereo input and no midi sync. When I would record for mixing, I would add a hi-hat at the beginning of each track in the MPC 2000xl. Then I would individually record the tracks to my DAW in several passes. After recording all the tracks, I would line them all up in my DAW for mixing (using the hi-hat as a guide for lining up the tracks). What I discovered is that the tracks would fall out of sync. I'm not sure your average listener would notice, but if you zoomed in on the waveforms you could see the drift.
I eventually bought a new soundcard and now I tend to record all 8 outs at once or midi sync with the soundcard's clock.
That was great information!
New subscriber
Yes i have seen you in passing this great to see years later you speaking music
I'm still around!
Wow! What a recommendation! Sometimes RUclips can throw us a gem. I don't even own, or use an MPC, but still an interesting video/channel. Definitely subscribing
Thanks for sharing some knowledge man. I do like the multing technique / mixing layered bands- it's handy. One contention of mine though is that some of the producers mentioned did in fact employ the 'low end theory' technique (split bass/highs into two bands) and layer the low end over once again. This comes up around 'low-pass sections' of a lot of these hiphop songs where the top is then filtered but the thickness of the low-end remains. This may be in conjunction with multing as well, but I think it's appropriate to say they did both. What do you think?
Awesome talk. Thanks for uploading this
cool video! thanks, man
glad you got something from it...fun topic to explore
Great Video
Gracias
Always wondered or the break drops where done programmatically in the sequencer or muting the channels on the console.
on the desk...coming soon I'll talk about it
„Molding“…Dude that’s some pretty powerful info! Thanks for that! I think this technique would be the answer to a ton of people’s questions about „the 90s sound of Hip Hop“.
its "multing" but my pronounciation could be to blame...thanks.
@@TonyBlackNYC 🤣 thanks anyways
@@TonyBlackNYCthere was a lot of filtering being done on the Akai samplers, it was a very popular technique, you can hear the Akai filter sound on so many records. Of course Multing was part of hip hop production, probably more for bigger artists in bigger studios, it wasn't the only way to achieve that sound. Loved your video btw, subbed now.
Good topic
Good talk.
Respect to Marley Marl the originator and the funkiest.
At the end of the day technology itself can only do but so much. You still have to have a good ear and a good touch to do what those guys that he spoke about actually did. He was the other guy in the room. Im betting he's knws all of those guys little tricks and secrets. Tony would probably be a really dope producer himself if he wanted with all of that knowledge he accumulated working with the best in the game for all those years. I salute you sir!!
Something interesting about the SP1200 is that the sequencer resolution is 24ppq so even in “hi-res” mode (quantize off) your beats are actually being quantized to 1/64th triplet notes.
that makes sense because the sp1200 does have a rigid feel to the beats, I always thought that. I got to witness Easy Mo B rock that machine a few times. It always felt like nothing was happening, until he said "I'm ready to track this now"...and he hit play, and BOOM
Shiid do you need more than 1/32nd triplet tho you can get super funky just on 1/16tg grids like it not hard to make it seem as if…. Its called 16 levels and alternating different sections of of a drumbreak…. I know im giving free game but swinging a beat is so easy man its crazy when i hear how people talk about dilla programming… he was and is a goat but alot of people easily bit his style it wasnt hard to replicate
He was kinda pissed by 98-2000 that alot of people caught on… thats why dilla had a period of no samples or breaks because people were either actively listening or people was eavesdropping when he made beats
RZA produced all the instrumentals for Wu-tang Clan's debut album on the SP1200. The unit recently sold at an auction for about 70 grand USD
I heard about that...amazing. I worked with him in 96. Definitely had an MPC and a 1200...and ADAT, cassette, etc
In his book he explained that he also used the ASR-10
Thanks for this, Tony! 🔥 video.
BTW re coffee machine. I got myself an ECM espresso machine and never looked back, there is nothing more frustrating than a bad coffee machine lol
mindblown... never new that about the MPC with it not being able to keep perfect time. Was that just the 60 and 3000 or did you ever test a 2000 or XL?
I don't think 2000's were out yet. I would guess they're the same.
You said like Akai MPC 60
Re: where drums sounds were sourced from -- you're, right of course. In my area, every producer was on their own to find drum breaks/hits (from vinyl) BUT... the "Ultimate Breaks and Beats" series ran from 86-91.
I assume that, at the time, if you were (more) connected you would have had access to all those juicy breaks... on vinyl or a second-hand cassette.
Heck yah algorithm 💯
I’ve been producing hiphop for over 25 years and parts of this just blew my mind. Thanks Tony!
P.S - Krups were great consumer coffee machines 20 years ago. Buy a cheap Ranchillio Siliva and learn to cycle, you won’t regret it.
I'll check out the Siliva
@@TonyBlackNYC I recommend buying an older (used, non digital) reconditioned model for cheap. Silvia’s seem to be going through the same analogue/digital transition that audio gear did back in the day.
Ranchillio are like the SSL of coffee machines and the old Silvia’s are like if SSL released a consumer model back in the 90s/early 2000s (get to know the quirks, make classics).
Pair it with a doserless rocky grinder and you got two solid bits of kit for your daily brew (buy used with new burrs and replace them in 15 years, haha).
Learn/treat these machines like audio gear and you’ll have friends knocking for brews man!
For fun, google Rancillio z9 (the eagle) for some coffee gear porn, haha. The best, and cheapest, coffee I had in Italy was pulled on one of these machines!
The Coffee tech and audio tech evolution is so similar. I think you’ll really enjoy this new journey mate!, enjoy and good luck!
Finally - this is what I’ve been saying 👊🏽
Some great insight here. Especially the recording/mix processes. Thanks for sharing
Great content! I'm carving for more 'know-how'...Trying to recreate this sound without knowing the process of enhancement and processing is really hard.I come from a small town in Poland...Tried to recreate the sound using chopped drumbreaks on a DAW at the beginning of 2000s...Never even came close...Young naive teenager i was thinking everything will sound FAT warm and dusty...😢
Thanks man, i was about to buy a Krups
"Well, I don't use quantizing" circle jerking dates back to the 80's when I began getting into music as a young teen. And to this day I'm still like...."I don't care; congratulations."
One more note about samples and Ensoniq Mirage...I started off with the Mirage sampling basslines, kicks and snares 8 bit, and all of those sounds you could load into the EPS/16+/ASR. I still have all of them.
@13:00 "Multing" For Millenials, and Gen Z, you will understand this another way: Stems. What AI, and some software, and apps on your phone/tablet do, is what he's describing. That's the basic explanation. Your AI/Apps etc are calculating the precise frequency of each sound and then cutting all the others to make stems. In our time, with the Multing method, we could manipulate those frequencies a little here and there, bring back a little of another frequency to add a different flavor. It's like making a stew, adding a little more of different seasonings to balance out the taste.
interesting translation
@@TonyBlackNYC Thanks! I did it sometimes, but I saw it done a whole lot. (I'm 48 and got my start in LA)
you still my hero Tony! what was that Exciter box again on the masterbus? BBE?
behringer edison
90 rap was a drum loop and a sample loop or chopped sampled. Props to Rza for introducing tge sped up vocal chop. That " For Heaven's Sake" was ahead of its time.
Rza always had a guitar sample looped into his earlier beats. Sick
They had such a great taste and drive, and of course the sound of the AKAI MPC 2000 would add up
agreed, the bit crunch of the akai sampling was a flavor
The compression on the 2000 made everything beautifully crunchy, I wish I'd never sold mine
A good example of that jump in resolution technology (96 vs 480 per quarter note) can be seen between the Yamaha QY70 and the QY100 mobile sequencers.
Easy mo Bee did great shit for 2pac. He was a good one.
Temptations 🔥🔥🔥
Cool video
rza used sp1200 it shows it on the show on Hulu
I worked with him in 96, he had both...and a couple of other tricks. The main point is that there is always quantize, even if its off. thanks.
I made my first beat in 1999, at age 14. In a sense, everything I had access to sounded kind of crappy, and since most genres did not exist, no one around me understood what it was that I was doing. That was the most important factor back then: if you were making beats, you had to have your own vision of what you were doing. No one else could conceive of it. I remember my friends saying things like, but it sounds like fake drums . . . . , and the only thing anyone could do was laugh and say 'you are not hiphop' or techno sucks. now a days there is no such thing as 'fake drums' and those limited genres that kept everyone in a box
now a days there is fake drums, they are electronic. maybe you don't understand as a drum is an acoustic instrument . a sample is an approximation of that acoustic sound..hence every electronic sample or modulated synth sound IS fake drums by default. The box is where that fake drum sound comes out of ... a band with live musicians playing non quantized / non assisted by computer effects / pitch correction.. is how timeless music is made. Your friends were not wrong but you simply accept that particular processed sound over a real person playing a drum kit.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 A producer taking a subtractive synthesizer to create drums isn't 'fake drums by default'. Maybe you don't understand sound design. Here's a tip coming from a studio engineer with years of industry experience. Drop the elitism. It isn't a good look and makes you look ignorant.
@@PushinButtons- If understanding what real vs fake drums are , renders me 'elite' (to you) ..then so be it Corky the Button Pushing robot ... and what does this equation render you.. I'll tell you - a contrarian moron. Only your shadow loves to argue with you and your baseless input. Cheerio, cornflake! Elite student of the drum , signing off.
@@PushinButtons- he is just dumb..ignore him. Some guys get a little bit of knowledge without a REAL connection to the "art" and act like @ssholes
Hey Tony, what are your thoughts on the resurgence of the cassette tape as a viable medium for music to mainstream audiences?
not a believer
It’s a myth that Dilla didn’t quantize. In Dan Charnas’s book, he explains that it’s a little deeper than that. Essentially at least one element of Dilla’s beats, whether it’s the hi-hat, snare, or kick, is established as the ‘grid’ of the track. He then communicates to an engineer to move certain aspects, “ticks”, to the precise placement of his liking to get his genius expressed. Any Dilla freak has understood his method. But there will never be another!
Also even when quantize is off on mpc3000 it’s still quantised as the mpc3000 resolution is not high 1/96 pqn. It’s always on the grid - oh this is covered in this video. i typed this before i watched through.
Great video! Sorry bout the lame coffee maker.
Can we use some technic to get that feeling?
Sampling ain't dead! Just less prevalent in the mainstream. All the best hop hop has been underground anyways
no one really talks about this. All the 'classic' MPCs are low-resolution and quantized by default 1/96 you can get out of this, to an extent, by double-time but it is always locked on to a grid (because of the low-res). RZA understood this early and he used to add elements via audio, to be completely off the grid. We don't get tape like quantize until MPC4000 and 1/960. But also where the notes drop is different between the MPC60 to MP3000 to MPC2000 is different. This isn't just in the code but in the clock/cpu- the drift before you swing. There are differences even in the earlier Linn Machines, the MPC60/ASQ10 is closest to LM1 - a butter smooth, scooped swung beat. The MPC3000 for me is late 90 early 00 hip/hop, any one getting on this machine gets an instant beat without much work. The MPC2000 requires more work, it feels forward and early too me - it is not Linn. The MPC4000 gives a lot more options but it has no 'natural' drift or swing - it is too damn tight.
For me the MV8000/MV8800 at 1/480 is my preferred h/w sequencer as you can 'shift/nudge' notes while the sequencer is running and still has a loose breathing between measures.
There is a reason to own all these old machines for unique sequencing.
some great points!
as a person making beats since 84, the over analyzation is always funny cuz it was never that deep😂 we just wanted the sounds.. sometimes from back spinning the records for 5-6 minutes.. sometimes from speeding the record up to get it INTO the sampler.. but i digress
Exactly!! We were kids of the Baby Boomers who grew up in the Cold War on everything from James Browm to Crosby Stills and NAsh to LAwrence Welk..we marched in the band and got classical musical training then used the new tools available at the time to express ourselves i a unique way...all this analytical stuff is over the top...
you gt kids 30 years later (Kendrick Lamar) trying to imitate what they thought was going on at the time whiel doing it today....they completely miss th epoint...just like every dumb hood rapper wants to be the "new Tupac"..IMPOSSIBLE.
Music doesnt stay in one place it moves..the 90s were for the kid sof the 90s!! Just like Disco, Motown, Jazz, Blues belonged to our grandparent and parents..you CANNOT recreate it..and th NEW music comes from 'getting" what the older music was about....Metal came from Rock and Roll with came from Rhythm and Blues with came from the blues wchih came from bluegrass, etc
Wish you to hear your story about Devante Swing. How you and him worked on making music and so on.
Talent using tools in a creative ways!
... Please make a video talking about your experience with DeVante Swing, his process & your process recording his compositions...
I ask as there is still really nothing out there that covers this in great detail.
As you will know yourself, DeVante is one of the greatest writers/musical geniuses of our generation/this era... (Ask anyone who has worked with him, or was producing at the time also.. They all mention his greatness)..
Please
🙏
Yesss!
the speed i can do some of this in my sp 404 is crazy
505 was my first drum machine