Considering this to replace my primary monitor. My MSi OLED has the same stand as on this and I must say that the adjustment in it and build quality are amazing.
Love your video, One question for this monitor, all I care about is the viewing angles and the display quality which has to be stunning , How does it compare to Lg or Samsung Panels under 30k? Is this good enough?
Hello Siddhartha sir . i am going to buy this monitor for ps5. will it support 1440p 120hz with hdr on ? because in some specs list it says console limited to fhd only .
@@xx7senxxiq After some considerations, I went with a 24inch 144Hz 1080p for gaming, less demanding on the hardware while providing adequate FPS for a lower price.
Hi man, how are you? I wanted to ask you whether you see ips glow or anything like that in a dark room as people say some ips monitors get that issue in the dark, I mainly want to game in a dark room so I would really appreciate if you give me some feedback. Thanks.
Hey I have a question, I'm buying this for a Series S to play at 120hz, does it work well for console and which overdrive mode should I use at that refresh rate
I can't decide between the 'Philips Evnia 27M2N5500' and the 'MSI 27" G274QPF E2.' In my country, the MSI is $30 more expensive than the Philips. Is it worth buying the MSI?
in my country evnia is more expensive than msi. I got evnia (nano ips) 2k 170 and i love it. no bleed light, very accurate colours and it is very fast when it is set on (fastest response) time.
This monitor is a around 4K costlier (it may drop in price soon on the link I shared in description). For that you get a MUCH better stand, and Type C input with PD charging. QC wise, Acer is also not the best in my limited observation. But you can decide according to your needs.
The specs are extremely similar to the 27 Inch Samsung Odyssey G5 G50D... both 180hz, 1440p, rapid IPS, AMD Free Sync, etc. I am wondering if they are the same monitor, just branded differently?
How does this one fair in comparison to the 27Gr75Q-B by LG. Both have almost identical specs, I am getting LG for around 1.5K cheaper. Would love to know your insights! PS: Really nice review. Most reviews talk about the QD model only. So this one was very helpful.
@@draganov7541 Yes bro Viewsonic & MSI have almost the same specs 27 inch 1440p IPS 1.07 billion colors (8-bit + FRC) 4-way adjustable stand, Manufactured at the same location: Zhonghe Dist. New Taipei City 235 Taiwan Country🤣👍MSI 400nits (2k/180Hz)119% sRGB ₹22,990 but ViewSonic 300nits (2k/170Hz)137% sRGB ₹19,500 I saw last week on Amazon now out of stock. MSI is a bit high price I went with Viewsonic I can save ₹3,500 so I can buy some ⌨ 🖱 😁
@@freddyrodriguez8184 there are some differences, like GB being 10 Hz lower, and not having swivel adjustment. Not sure if GB monitor has USB c input, and then finally this is also cheaper. I'VE already mentioned the differences between QPF-QD Model.
@@DeConqueror Do you use the original ps5 or a different hdmi 2.1 cable? Is the hdmi cable plugged into the first hdmi port, right next to the cable input for the power supply? Adapative sync on, HDR off, in settings let ps5 analyze compatible modes. If everything fails maybe its because i have a ps5 slim and you have a ps5 fat? either way, I'm not Lying that it works on my monitor.
@@dimensionfive1780 everything u said i have done except i have ps5 fat bought in 2023 and one more thing in my msi g274qpf e2 monitor there are two power cables provided one with 6amp and other with 16amp but in my area we have 6 amp sockets commonly in household but i will try with a adapter to see if it works
Did you notice any white noise/buzzing noise coming from the headphone when it’s connected to the monitor headphone output jack? Coz I’m hearing noises on mine. Should I exchange it for a new one or all the monitor of this model makes this noise?
Sir I recommend Next time monitor reviewing please put some latest game footages like cyberpunk Ray tracking or any new papular title like CS2, valo, COD & fortnite we love to see that how the display look's nice video BTW
@@TechReflex thanks 🙏🏻 And bro plz tell me ryzen 7600 non x and rx 7900 gre is enough for gaming and streaming (budget limit reached 💀) otherwise i have to buy 7800x 3d cpu only ,for 5-6 months use than buy a gpu plz help 🙏🏻
@@AviDeol333YT 7600 is enough for 7900 GRE.. 7800x 3d is like the best gaming cpu in the market right now. and almost 15k more expensive than 7600. People are using 7800x 3d with 4080 or 4090. If you plan on upgrading your gpu later, I would recommend 7800x 3d..otherwise budget wise 7600 is best. It won't bottleneck your gpu. I have also heard that NVIDIA is better for streaming. So you might want to look into 4070 super (faster than 7900 gre). I recently ordered Zotac 4070 super trinity from flipkart for 58k (With axis card discount). It usually goes out of stock very quickly though. So grab it while you can.
Hello, i have some problem with monitor msi 272qpf e2. I have only hdmi 2.0 and not working. If is problem of monitor or i can use only 2.0b? The monitor work with only dp?
I too would like to meet the people who named these monitors 😂 I realized the usb is 2.0 so is it capped at 60 fps for ps5 ? Since it is not usb 2.1 so vrr is not compatible
@@TechReflex sorry i meant to say hdmi 2.0. Since vrr for ps5 is only available with hdmi 2.1. I misunderstood what vrr is when i typed my first comment and now i know it caps at 120 for hdmi 2.0
I am using a laptop which does not have a dp port but have a HDMI 2.0 and USB - C 3.2 Gen , so how can i connect my laptop with this monitor and get proper 180 hrz.Will a Type c to display port convert work and give 180 hz or what shoud i do?? Please help need to buy this asap.
@@TechReflex My laptop has 3.2 Gen USB Type C port and it does support DP alt Mode but i am not sure about it is thunderbolt or not because there is no sign of the lighting logo. Can you help me which cable or connecter do i need to use the full 180 hz .
@@DeConqueror I tried it and it works. I'll return it because I find it a bit harsh on the eyes. GT7 looks and feels so much better compared to non-vrr/1080p. If you dont experience eyestrain from.oled etc, you can ignore the rest of my comment. Reddit has a thread on the msi being a bit harsh, how reducing brightness/contrast or changing colors works for some... but that doesn't work for me. I'm looking at buying a good philips tv now that has a VA panel. My current 15yo 43 inch philips also has a VA panel and never had any problem with black smearing and its great for the eyes. I'm looking at Philips the one 43inch 2024 version does 4k 120hz with vrr. The one 43 2023 version i'm not sure yet.
@@dimensionfive1780 thanks for the reply and one more thing msi takes return for change of mind? In my area it shows only replacement if defective piece arrives.
@@DeConqueror In my area none take return except one shop that delivers in both Belgium/Netherlands, the shop is called Coolblue. Amazon belgium/Netherlands/germany supposedly also takes returns but I'm not sure if they can trusted on returns in the benelux. Especially if a different shop shipped the product.
@@karbiberlitavuklupilav1046 QLED version has a completely different panel as I explained in video. From its previous version, it has many upgrades in panel refresh rate, stand and other things.
Finally a review of this Monitor.
Did it just release?
@@domanater480 Yes, last month. it also has almost specs to MSI MAG 274QRFW. white variant.
do you know the difference between this and msi G274QPFQD?
Did you bought it?
@@mohammediq6951 Yes
Good review, can you please also review MSI mag274qrf qd e2 and compare these two monitors. Thanks.
Nah
Finally great review. Planning to buy this one.
Thanks :)
Good idea i am total happy with it
did you buy it ? is it good?
@@xx7senxxiq heyy. Yes i bought it. Pretty good actually
Considering this to replace my primary monitor. My MSi OLED has the same stand as on this and I must say that the adjustment in it and build quality are amazing.
Solid pick at 20k, good monitors have become easily accessible now.
Please ask MSI is they're planning to launch their 27" QD OLED in India. Thanks!
It will be over 80k at least, so out of reach for most people
@@mihirojha4475 bhai mai apne liye puch raha tha 😂
Thx bro you helped me i will give you like
Love your video, One question for this monitor, all I care about is the viewing angles and the display quality which has to be stunning , How does it compare to Lg or Samsung Panels under 30k? Is this good enough?
better than LG & Samsung.
Just got the monitor today.Will let you guys know the review!
Hey where did you get this monitor from ?
Waiting for your review planning to buy it as well
IF You See This Comment Please Replay Because I Want to Buy it Tommorow
It is a great monitor under 22k,The colors are amazing and can be used for both gaming and work.Overall great package
@@sarveshshriyanis it good for color accuracy tasks?
@@justinhawk835 Yes,can be used!
Well organized info!
Planning to get this for my new 4070 super build.
Keep it up
did you get it? is it good?
@@xx7senxxiq out of stock
@@xx7senxxiqit’s worth it I have it bought it for $200 on microcenter
@@xx7senxxiqI’m also running a 4070ti super with it
Nice. I'm planning on getting this because I'm also upgrading to a 4070.
Thanks for the review, i just bought mine!
How is it?
Please review ViewSonic VX2758A-2K-PRO-2 monitor
This Msi is better bro you pay more some money but it's better
Hello Siddhartha sir . i am going to buy this monitor for ps5. will it support 1440p 120hz with hdr on ? because in some specs list it says console limited to fhd only .
Hello, i read somewhere that 8bit+ frc can be used only 120Hz and under. over 120hz like 144-160-180 Hz it works only 8 bit. Is that true ?
I'm considering this monitor, thanks for the nice review.
did you get it? is it good?
@@xx7senxxiq After some considerations, I went with a 24inch 144Hz 1080p for gaming, less demanding on the hardware while providing adequate FPS for a lower price.
Can you suggest a fps gaming mouse under 3k ?
By the way Love your elegant and simple review
Bro mouses are like 400 max? Are you getting confused on what part ur talking about lol
Buy Razer viper 8khz
@@rickscheesesteank1600 he is probably talking in some other currency like indian rupees
Hyperx pulsefire haste
Show ghosting of 60hz, 120hz, 144hz also.
Nice review. Can you add a screenshot of UFO test at 60hz?
Thanks. And no.
Can you tell me what is the vesa size for "MSI Optix G273QF Esports Gaming IPS Monitor - 27 inch" 100x100 or 75x75 mount
100x100mm
Why is this channel so underated.
Because this is Indian english channel
can we run it on 10 bit and 180 hz at the same time?
Please review viewsonic vx2758a 2k pro 2
Hi man, how are you? I wanted to ask you whether you see ips glow or anything like that in a dark room as people say some ips monitors get that issue in the dark, I mainly want to game in a dark room so I would really appreciate if you give me some feedback. Thanks.
How is it compared to Gigabyte G27Q and M27Q?
Yes. I have the same question
they are quite old. It's better to get this but M27Q is a very nice monitor.
Can you please let me know the difference between this monitor and the msi mag 274qrfw? Is it the same?
Comparing with Samsung odessey G5 and LG Ultragear, is it better value for money ????
Do u want va or ips panel?
Hey I have a question, I'm buying this for a Series S to play at 120hz, does it work well for console and which overdrive mode should I use at that refresh rate
I can't decide between the 'Philips Evnia 27M2N5500' and the 'MSI 27" G274QPF E2.' In my country, the MSI is $30 more expensive than the Philips. Is it worth buying the MSI?
in my country evnia is more expensive than msi. I got evnia (nano ips) 2k 170 and i love it. no bleed light, very accurate colours and it is very fast when it is set on (fastest response) time.
Does this support VRR on the PS5? Some monitors support VRR even with 2.0 HDMI, so I’m curious if this is one of them.
well, does it?
How is this compared to the Acer xv272u v3? its a lot cheaper but seems to be ticking off all the boxes with a decent response time.
Where do u live because the acer Nitro xv272u v3 doesn't ship to Bangalore so I want to know where it ships to
I know, its not shipping anywhere, although I found a seller online, mostly will buy from them
Can u tell if it's a company's website or personal contact? If u could tell I would like to know if u don't mind
This monitor is a around 4K costlier (it may drop in price soon on the link I shared in description). For that you get a MUCH better stand, and Type C input with PD charging. QC wise, Acer is also not the best in my limited observation. But you can decide according to your needs.
Does this monitor has a good response time for fps shooter games?
yes insanely fast just got this monitor for $150 at Costco worth every penny!
Does anyone know the best RGB values on this monitor?
So which one is better this one or g274qpf-qd which has quantum dot?
The specs are extremely similar to the 27 Inch Samsung Odyssey G5 G50D... both 180hz, 1440p, rapid IPS, AMD Free Sync, etc. I am wondering if they are the same monitor, just branded differently?
@@msd1611 won't rule out the possibility, also check it's color gamut percentage to confirm.
How does this one fair in comparison to the 27Gr75Q-B by LG. Both have almost identical specs, I am getting LG for around 1.5K cheaper. Would love to know your insights! PS: Really nice review. Most reviews talk about the QD model only. So this one was very helpful.
I think this MSI one is better: 15 extra FPS, USB C input, more flexible stand.
@@TechReflex does it provide better panel tho? If all I cared about is a stunning matt panel with amaziing viewing angles then what you recommend?
I just bought it today, I'll let u know about this monitor with my msi laptop
pls let me know, i wanna buy it for my ps5
Sir review this (VX2758A-2K-PRO-2)
I was also planning to buy that
@@draganov7541 Yes bro Viewsonic & MSI have almost the same specs 27 inch 1440p IPS 1.07 billion colors (8-bit + FRC) 4-way adjustable stand, Manufactured at the same location: Zhonghe Dist. New Taipei City 235 Taiwan Country🤣👍MSI 400nits (2k/180Hz)119% sRGB ₹22,990 but ViewSonic 300nits (2k/170Hz)137% sRGB ₹19,500 I saw last week on Amazon now out of stock. MSI is a bit high price I went with Viewsonic I can save ₹3,500 so I can buy some ⌨ 🖱 😁
@@draganov7541 👍👍
@@draganov7541 I actually got this this month actually it's pretty good and if you are on a budget buy it it works pretty well
apparently it has some backlight bleeding and dead pixel issues according to reddit
What would you say it's the difference between this one and the MSI G274QPF-QD? I'm between these two and the GIGABYTE M27Q
@@freddyrodriguez8184 there are some differences, like GB being 10 Hz lower, and not having swivel adjustment. Not sure if GB monitor has USB c input, and then finally this is also cheaper.
I'VE already mentioned the differences between QPF-QD Model.
@@TechReflexcan you compare it with msi mag 274QRFW?
ise monitor mein kisi trha keyboard and mouse connect ker skte h ?
Could you please tell that this monitor supports ps5 vrr or not?
Does it support 1440p 120hz on PS5? Or just 1080p 120hz?
I bought the MSI G272QPF.
Seems like the MSI G274QPF isnt compatible.
MSI G274QPF does 1440p 120hz and vrr on the original ps5 hdmi cable.
@@dimensionfive1780 i bought this monitor and i even turned on the adaptive sync still no vrr support is showing ?
@@DeConqueror
Do you use the original ps5 or a different hdmi 2.1 cable?
Is the hdmi cable plugged into the first hdmi port, right next to the cable input for the power supply?
Adapative sync on,
HDR off,
in settings let ps5 analyze compatible modes.
If everything fails maybe its because i have a ps5 slim and you have a ps5 fat?
either way, I'm not Lying that it works on my monitor.
@@dimensionfive1780 everything u said i have done except i have ps5 fat bought in 2023 and one more thing in my msi g274qpf e2 monitor there are two power cables provided one with 6amp and other with 16amp but in my area we have 6 amp sockets commonly in household but i will try with a adapter to see if it works
@@DeConqueror ah wait i have a MSI G272QPF E2 maybe thats whats causing the issue?
sorry if you cant get yours to work 😑
Thanks
Did you notice any white noise/buzzing noise coming from the headphone when it’s connected to the monitor headphone output jack? Coz I’m hearing noises on mine. Should I exchange it for a new one or all the monitor of this model makes this noise?
I mentioned in the review that that's one of the problems with this monitor.
@@TechReflex hmm i see. thanks boss
can we use hdmi 2.1 for 180hz with 1080p?
nice monitor banel !
Sir I recommend Next time monitor reviewing please put some latest game footages like cyberpunk Ray tracking or any new papular title like CS2, valo, COD & fortnite we love to see that how the display look's nice video BTW
Is 27gl850 worth buying now over this for 24k??
no
What’s the difference betwen this model and the MSI G272QPF E2 model?
My guess would be the region, they look the exact same to me.
Ps5 Does it support 120hz 1440p
yes it does 1440p 120hz and vrr all at the same time on ps5 despite being hdmi 2.0b 👌
Does HZ drop when we turn on HDR400?
Does it support nvidia gsync?
Does this have freesync or vsync?
any limitations on the type c input ? like i can use take display out from my laptop too right?
Yeah
Yaklaşık 60 dolar fazla vererek G274QRFW modeli aldım memnunum kanalımda ghosting testi var renkleri çok hoşuma gitti
Make review mag 274upf e2
Hello bro is it better than LG Ultragear Gaming Monitor(27") 27Gr75Q,Black
Reply fast plz
Yes, it has 15Hz higher refresh rate, has 19% wider color gamut, is 100 nits brighter, and cheaper. So definitely better.
@@TechReflex thanks 🙏🏻
And bro plz tell me ryzen 7600 non x and rx 7900 gre is enough for gaming and streaming (budget limit reached 💀) otherwise i have to buy 7800x 3d cpu only ,for 5-6 months use than buy a gpu plz help 🙏🏻
@@AviDeol333YT 7600 is enough for 7900 GRE.. 7800x 3d is like the best gaming cpu in the market right now. and almost 15k more expensive than 7600. People are using 7800x 3d with 4080 or 4090. If you plan on upgrading your gpu later, I would recommend 7800x 3d..otherwise budget wise 7600 is best. It won't bottleneck your gpu. I have also heard that NVIDIA is better for streaming. So you might want to look into 4070 super (faster than 7900 gre). I recently ordered Zotac 4070 super trinity from flipkart for 58k (With axis card discount). It usually goes out of stock very quickly though. So grab it while you can.
Also, you will get better warranty/ after sales with zotac, than sapphire or Asrock in india.
2:47 Which adaptive synch does it have... AMD or NVIDIA????
G sync
Thank you
This or gigabyte m27q??
Probably M27Q is better but it is more expensive in my country by about 25 bucks
Again nice 👍
Which is better .. lg 27gn65 or msi G274f
Or lg 24gn65r
Is it good with ps5
Which is better MSI MAG
274QRFW or 274QPF-E2
+1 same doubt
Qrfw have quantum dot panel
hello i am from Bangladesh, i accidentally broke my gigabyte g27fc monitors display so should i buy this monitor? its 400 dollars here (40,000 taka)
Yeah, this is much better.
Hello, i have some problem with monitor msi 272qpf e2. I have only hdmi 2.0 and not working. If is problem of monitor or i can use only 2.0b? The monitor work with only dp?
Honestly just use display port since it has the best performance
Just pick this monitor up what settings are people using?
Bro the colors straight from the box is so bad…did you find any settings?
@@DobieCasa I use user 75 brightness 70 contrast warm looks good 👍
Next lvl 190-200hz?
Good review... Just work on the accent
I too would like to meet the people who named these monitors 😂
I realized the usb is 2.0 so is it capped at 60 fps for ps5 ? Since it is not usb 2.1 so vrr is not compatible
Why would you connect it via USB? It's HDMI is 2.0b, so it'll support 144Hz
@@TechReflex sorry i meant to say hdmi 2.0. Since vrr for ps5 is only available with hdmi 2.1. I misunderstood what vrr is when i typed my first comment and now i know it caps at 120 for hdmi 2.0
I need the color calibration please
Did u find it i need it too
@@badrmaaouichi3181 not yet 🤦♂
I have this one i cant find the button to turn off the monitor can you help me ?
Press the joystick at the center, like you press L3/R3 on a PlayStation remote.
I need color calibration
you didn't say anything about HDR quality of this Monitor...
It doesn't have any local dimming technology, so there isn't much to say.
@@TechReflex ok thanks 👍
Is the usb c feature limited to Samsung Dex?
@@desmond3245 no, should also support all phones/laptops with video out.
@@TechReflex That's a neat feature that I haven't seen anyone pointing out. Also thanks for the quick response!
not in stock anywhere
I am using a laptop which does not have a dp port but have a HDMI 2.0 and USB - C 3.2 Gen , so how can i connect my laptop with this monitor and get proper 180 hrz.Will a Type c to display port convert work and give 180 hz or what shoud i do??
Please help need to buy this asap.
Laptop should have a thunderbolt port or a USB C port with DP Alt mode. If it has that then yeah, you will get 180Hz.
@@TechReflex My laptop has 3.2 Gen USB Type C port and it does support DP alt Mode but i am not sure about it is thunderbolt or not because there is no sign of the lighting logo.
Can you help me which cable or connecter do i need to use the full 180 hz .
@@Iamkeshavnandan if it has dp alt mode, you should get 180Hz, you just need a USB Type C to C cable for this montior.
@@TechReflex can you suggest me a Type c to c cable which supports 2k 180hrz please
Does the DisplayPort cable that comes with the monitor, supports 180hz?
Yeah
is it an ultra wide screen?
nope
this one does 1440p 120hz and vrr on ps5, but have to disable HDR and ultrafast response time because that messes with image.quality.
it supports vrr on ps5 at 1440p 120hz? have you tried it ?
@@DeConqueror I tried it and it works. I'll return it because I find it a bit harsh on the eyes. GT7 looks and feels so much better compared to non-vrr/1080p.
If you dont experience eyestrain from.oled etc, you can ignore the rest of my comment.
Reddit has a thread on the msi being a bit harsh, how reducing brightness/contrast or changing colors works for some... but that doesn't work for me. I'm looking at buying a good philips tv now that has a VA panel. My current 15yo 43 inch philips also has a VA panel and never had any problem with black smearing and its great for the eyes.
I'm looking at Philips the one 43inch 2024 version does 4k 120hz with vrr. The one 43 2023 version i'm not sure yet.
@@dimensionfive1780 thanks for the reply and one more thing msi takes return for change of mind? In my area it shows only replacement if defective piece arrives.
@@DeConqueror In my area none take return except one shop that delivers in both Belgium/Netherlands, the shop is called Coolblue.
Amazon belgium/Netherlands/germany supposedly also takes returns but I'm not sure if they can trusted on returns in the benelux. Especially if a different shop shipped the product.
@@dimensionfive1780 okay
DOES IT SUPPORT FREESYNC PREMIUM
It supports 48-180, so I guess yeah.
Does it come with hdmi cable?
No
can we use amd free sync on this monitor
@@karbiberlitavuklupilav1046 yeah
And G-Sync? @@TechReflex
@@TechReflex if we can use the sync technologies then whats the different about qd version from the e2 version
@@karbiberlitavuklupilav1046 QLED version has a completely different panel as I explained in video. From its previous version, it has many upgrades in panel refresh rate, stand and other things.
this is gsync compatible ?
Yeah.
🎮
Thanks for the low effort comment babe. 🫶🏻
Does this monitor have internal speakers?
@@onur.8899 no
@@TechReflex
Can I get sound by plugging speakers into the headphone output?
@@onur.8899 yeah
@@TechReflex thank you bro
4:12 name of the game please?
Unreal Tournament 3
Im unable to get mobile display on monitor via usb c , anyone else facing this ?
@@KickassSillyboy which phone you're using?
Anyone did try it with a ps5?
is this monitor good for ps5 ?
Yes. Though a bit overkill.
@@TechReflex then which monitor should i consider 1440p high refresh rate or budget 4k 60 hz any please recommend any
@@themoviesfranchise6450 this is still great. You can save some money by going with a 144Hz monitor, but the price difference may not be worth saving.
Is this better than the MSI G274QPF-QD?
No, that one is quantum dot. I've explained the difference in video.
Hello Bhai,
MSI MAG 274QRFW 27 Inch WQHD vs MSI G274QPF E2 27 Inch mai konsa buy karu jaldi batao?????? Muze dono same price pr mil rahe hai
This model (E2) because both monitors are almost the same, but this one has USB C input.
@@TechReflex thankssss for quick response you got 1 follower and subscriber 💯💪
@@TechReflex Hey man, does this monitor support 1440p at 120hz on consoles like the 274QRFW?
jaideep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
best curved ? gaming monitor
Samsung G6 2k 240hz 44k😂
@@vikhsn recommend 4k. Display around 34" or less
@@japan8994 there is no ultrawide 4k 240hz oled panel yet. wait for those probably one or two more years
I bought this monitor and found deadpixels 😢
Hows the HDR
@@aceslow9628hdr is good increase brightness 418 nits
@@aceslow9628no dimming technology.so , i don't think it supports hdr.
Almost 200 years of english domination and literally nobody in India can speak it.
That's why Indian civilization is the oldest and still exists, while others have forgotten their roots and converted.
Bro Posted 21:9 video for reviewing 16:9 monitor
HI BRO
👋🏻
So does it support 144 hz or 180 hz refresh rate for pc?
Yes, 180 and 144 both