Fixed Wing Tuning Guide for INAV
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
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Today, step by step, tuning guide for all of you flying fixed wings (including flying wings) with #INAV onboard! No, I will not give you a magical formula: put this here and it's done. It's a real step by step list of what you have to do to tune your fixed-wing #airplane. Starting from the center of gravity, rates, servo trimming and finally #tuning vital INAV parameters.
The goal of this tuning is to have INAV take all that's the best from the fixed-wing itself, especially built-in stability and not to make thing worse.
Table of contents:
0:00 Intro
0:18 Starting Point - CG point, correct build, thrust to weight
2:10 Rates
5:11 Servo Autotrim
6:12 Autotune
7:23 So far, a short recap before going further
9:42 Main Course - PID/PIFF tuning, gyro filtering
16:35 Dessert 
Наука
What, you mean you can't fix my garbage hardware with your polished software? Garbage in, Garbage out is really a mantra that needs to be ingrained into everything. Thanks for the excellent walkthrough with very basic intro to everything! I've got a 1.6m wing waiting for a FC and my free time so this is well timed.
I hope this works because I'm running out of hot glue.😡🤬
Perfect timing! lol I'm nearing the end of a build with iNav right now, I will definitely go through this one. I've followed your older videos in the past and always had great results!
some say I know what I'm saying... :)
I can't wait to get home to try this! 😁. I been waiting for someone to do a video like this. You have no idea how many times my wing nose drives, turned over then nose drives. Its has got to the point I was ready to give up the hobby but I believe this will work. Thank you!!!😊😁🤗
Thanks again, Pavel. Real golden info here.
Thank you huge help, you are my go to guy for all inav based tutorials.
Great Tuto!
I've already experimented with no P gains in the past on aircraft. Works well. Horizon and acro however are handy when you want to pass the transmitter to a noobie. ( They get the feeling of control without being able to to kill the wing)
Keep it up Pawel
iNav information GOLD. I learn stuff every time you speak Paweł, thanks so much.
thanks mate!
My problem was in Horizon my plane would dive down....I re-leveled 5 times. Then I purposely put the nose up 4.5 degrees and in Inav put -4.5 in board pitch. Now it fly's perfect. I am very impressed with INAV!
how or where did you change that setting? mine is doing same
Great video will try these on my FX-61 and Z-84 and see how it goes. Thanks Pawel!
Thanks, very helpful. I will do exactly what you recommend
as always well explained :) ty very much for your videos
Good information - thanks Pawel
like like like like like.
I needed this.
Very good, resourceful information
Thank you 🙏
Many thanks! Very informative.
Perfect! Testing this out on my new Nano Talon right away. I hope it is "quite pleasurable".... :) Cheers Bud
A masterpiece!!
ProTip from the source code: Instead of AutoTune, just set your FF to (13950 / (axis rate)) for 90% control surface deflection (useful for no P gain), or (12400 / (axis rate)) for 80% control surface deflection (useful for small P gains). No complicated math or blackbox spelunking.
This is the first video I've seen where someone explains that the rates are the first things you want to set, and contrasting with BetaFlight, you set the rates for what the model does instead of what you want it to do. I like the "no P gain" and other tips too, gonna give those a try!
I don't like autotune either.
I adjust the FF value by approximation, switch between manual and acro, until you have 90% of the acro travel.
However, applying its formula 13950 / 300dps = 46.5 FF. I think it will be a very low value to reach 90% ... I have to try it to see if it matches.
@@isabido Yeah that's the way I did it too, adjusting the value and switching back and for between manual and rate mode, but we already know the pitch / roll rate so there's no guesswork or error if you just divide and type it in. I might try to push to have that built into the configurator.
@Bryan Mayland Could you please say where in the source code that info is hidden. TIA.
@@StefanNaewe It is in src/main/flight/pid.c pidApplyFixedWingRateController(). The rateTarget is multiplied by the scaled feedforward kFF (the entered value in the configurator is divided by 31). This gives the formula:
Output = FF / 31.0 * Target
For 90% deflection (45% in each direction) that is:
450 = FF / 31 * Rate
FF = 13950 / Rate
Thank you Pawel!
Love it!!
Thanks for this awesome guide. Question: I assume that when you say basic hardware and setup must be complete first, this includes the guide on the iNav github page that talks about setting FF so that you get 90% of the deflection that you see in manual mode, and all that? Will doing that first yield better or worse autotune values?
One point to mention before autotrimming is board angle adjustment. You can skip this step but then in the OSD, the horizon will not match with the earth horizon.
Awesome video.
I'm just getting back into fixed wing and this was awesome.
Let's work together!
Basil
Awesome how to vid. Subbed even tho I watch all your vids and thought I already had.
I agree I used to fly with angle but noticed flying in no mode much better. One thing I didnt hear you talk about was air mode? Do you use air mode on fixed wing, airplane?
Hello Pavel, I have followed your guide step by step, and my wing (1.2m wingspan opterra) still is jittery in flight (not a servo problem). I would be flying level and solid and suddenly the wing starts to rock (pitch and or roll axis), then flies normal again. I reduced the gyro LPF to 20 as you mentioned but it did not help. I fly in 10km/hr wind, using matek F722 wing and FrSky R9M access receiver. Same issue happened with the zohd dart XL. What am I missing? Any suggestions? I did servo trim and auto tune and my cg is spot on. Could it be an issue with the barometer default PIDs? Thanks
Hi Pawel, I am running inav 2.1 on my F3 flight controller. In that case, what PID values should i need to change? Or should I simply rely upon AUTOTUNE?
Hi i have tried to tune my zohd orbit wing with a matek f411wing the controll is so slugish in manual and acro rate its like it have 150percent expo(i set manual and rc expo to 20 percent) the elevator have almost no travel even if i set the rate to 950 but wen i switch to horizon it respond almost normaly i order a second f 411 same problem i tried a matek f722wing same problem i have an old omnibus v1 in my caiprinhia inav 1.9 and it fly like a dream for almost one year (i did tune it myself)
Does this apply to inav 2.1 as well, or do I really have to upgrade now? :)
Damn I had to wacht a whole lot of ads to watch this video. But I guess if my wing is a bit more stable now it was worth it.
P at 0 thats new for me. Thanks Pawel
Fantastic video, Pawel! Thanks a lot! 😃
I'm seriously thinking about making the FT Pun Jet with the smaller Matek iNav board... You know? It's pretty small, easy to carry around and looks fun as hell! (Oh, with FPV, of course.)
version with foldable wings is cool
@@FPVUniversity Absolutely! 😃
I don't think about putting a servo there, but... Maybe something to fix it in position to fly... Who knows. 😊
Thank you
Hi Pawel,always very good videos, Dankeschön!Is it possible to make the compass in Inav a bit smoother? Thank you!RegardsMike
Great info.Are you still recommending 0 P gain with inav 3.0?Im a still learning about wings.Could you do video going into more detail about pif controller in 2021 or has nothing changed?
Is there a way to trim the servo midpoints in manual mode instead of autotrim? Coming from several years of slope soaring I have my own routine to match CG position and pitch stability to maximize efficiency and I would like to do it on a friend's FPV rig :)
I'm having issues with esc brake not working, is there a setting in inav for this? I am using a hobbywing esc and appropriate control box with braking on.
Master!!!
can you tune the Matek Systems F411-WSE in the field? if it has osd tune like betaflight then i want one(it sucks to have a laptop in the field)
Павел, Большое Спасибо за опыт.
thanks Pawel to share your knowledge, it helps a lot!! you could be the polish brother of joshua bardwel ;)
За русские субтитры большое спасибо, да и за само видео тоже.
Hi Pawel, I have a glider 3.2m wingspan, and P=0 I=6 FF=50 did not work, it wobbles/drifts. In MANUAL the glider flies on its own strait and level. AUTOTUNE did not work to produce a stable PIFF coefficients. What should I do?? Thank you. Dennis
Well, thank you very much, I really mean it... I also know that probably I'm asking for to much.. but its there any way that you can grab your plane... show what you are talking about? as well as showing on iNav?? I mean I'm totally new to it and honestly when I look at the app or GUI I have a hard time... probably a step by step setting up each of the tabs... OSD, servos, Servo throws... you know a more interactive explanation??
Thank you very much in advance....
Hello Pawel, thank you for this information, video! Octoberfest is coming, need a place to sleep when you are in Munich?
I'm not that much of a beer person. Personally I prefer good whiskey. But thanks for the offer mate!
Pawel, I need your help. Do you know what can be happening that I don't get system messages in my OSD in INAV? I need to Autotune and Autotrim, nothing shows up in my screen. Thanks!
This is my video, you can see how bad Oscillations are. Any idea... Thanks! ruclips.net/video/Ywh7KxZ4Zj0/видео.html
You have to enable "System messages" OSD element
@@FPVUniversity thank you Pawel. I had System messages ON, but I found out DJI OSD is not fully compatible with iNav OSD. I don't get to see the messages like Autolaunch, Autotrim and Autotune. I don't get OSD sticks commands either (like saving). Thank you for your help. I guess we have to wait on DJI. Keep up the great work!!!.
So I stopped using I-nav after a couple of strange spirals to the ground I a,m a new fixed wing pilot less then a year, so I am sure it was my fault however Arduplane seems to me to be a better all around choice, all be it a much steeper learning curve. How do you feel about ardupilot?
never really used it
Reducing P to 0, is this still a recommeded thing to do, after this video is aready 3 years old and there have been may changes to inav in the meantime.
Hello pawel
Is this video still relevant to inav 5?
Another great video, Thank you! Do you have Airmode on for your planes also, or just Acro?
Airmode should be always on
Quelle est la différence between airmode and acro ?
@@swfpv Airmode permet de toujours avoir la stabilization, meme quands le... throttle? est a 0, mais n'est pas en fait une "mode" comme Acro ou Angle. Acro est la mode qui donne simplement la stabilization, mais qui laisse la contrôle direct au pilote.
does these tricks apply for a mini talon plane?
hi Pawel, great video as usual. could you also do one with trouble shotting? for instance, why does my inav changes direction while in loiter mode? or why does RTH heads to arming point and then just flies away..? ahah, i know, this sounds like i am trying to get answers to my questions. but, maybe there are other inav users who have the same problem.. ;)
manual, angle and horizon work pretty good. the gps has constantly 10 to 12 sats.. so, i believe i am doing something wrong with the settings... cheers, and keep up the good work!
What are the Roll Rate for the s800 Skyshadow. 400 or better 300?
thanks for this Tips. You always my number one Teacher.
Hello!
I have a question about ACRO flight mode. Do you mean it by turning off MANUAL, HORIZON and ANGLE?
So, nothing is selected == ACRO?
Thanks!
That is my understanding... per the iNav mode documentation: "This default mode is called "Rate" mode, also sometime called "Acro" (from "acrobatic") and is active whenever no auto-leveled mode is enabled."
github.com/iNavFlight/inav/wiki/Modes#default-flight-mode--no-mode-selected-
Hello Pawel!
How about auto launch and nav flight modes, will zero P affect those kind of things in any bad way?
SLINGSHOTandMOLOTOWS I think he’s referring to wings in this video. I would never set my P to O on my Mini Talon or other large long range planes.
@@ChristopherF_1971 why not? have you tried? I ask because I changed to 0in my mini talon soon I'll try it and I don't want surprises 🤣
@@jaseduar hi Jasson, what're the results of nav modes and RTH after setting P=0 on all axis? It's rainy days the whole week I couldn't go out and test.
Hello, Love Your channel, I Have a question they say the dumb ones are the bests here goes can I piggy back my frsky R9 module with my EZ UHF 2W transmitter sense the R9 module has the pins for it along with gps sense it has the pins for it to. Have a Radiomaster TX16s transmitter external 3s lipo battery pack R9 is ACCST firmware 2.3.5,EZ UHF 1.50,Radiomaster open tx 2.3.9,and flight controller F 405 wing using INAV2.5.Also if I'M able to would I be able to use redundancy I have R9 receiver, and EZ UHF 8ch receiver. That was on my mind and if any one You would be the one to connect it or is it just a dumb question. Thanks. for any response
Hi Pawel.
I flew yesterday and today "with your settings." Truly, I was thrilled!
Today it was windy and I noticed that very much. How could i improve the attitude on windy days.
My rate setting for the s800 Skyshadow is 400 on roll and pitch 200. the servo rate is 80%. is that okey what do you mean?
I like it directly and fast.
Thank you for your detailed and innovative videos
Will you make a video how to setup advanced features as a follow up topic? (GPS, Baro, ..., and Lidar!!!)
Why after autotune i see pid setted up but dont the piff?
Pawel
How do I adjust servo throw in inav?
Is there any way to give "Stabilised Yaw" to the motor differential thrust Yaw?
yes, with mixer. Evenm default airplane mixer preset has differential thrust
@@FPVUniversity since the servo mixer has both "Stabilised Yaw" and the raw "Yaw" input, I was confused if the "Yaw" in motor mixer was stabilised or not. I guess now i can try building my non-swept flying wing with motor differential for yaw stability!
When will the WIKI reflect this new FW AutoTuning process?
If i set p gain to zero in acro mode stabilisation seems to not work at all !? Is that right? Do i need to enable air mode? Speaking for airplanes.
airplanes are stable in the air without any PIDs
@@FPVUniversity thanks pawel. Also I just run a airplane Preset and seems to act better now in acro mode. Thanks again.
ok i Applied these changes to my good flying s1100 now i flys like sh... mhh i only change p and i values and the gyro and now its so chacky and not stabel regardles of selected mode. 😥
My zohd drift flyers very bad after following your advice. Very shaky/bouncy. I am not into replugging and retrying. This is where inav fails. Can someone advise where to change first when flights become bouncy?
I think autotune for quads should be possible. By analyzing the blackbox data in real-time we could develop a kind of adaptive PID tuning and filtering with the aim to minimize PID errors with say 1Khz looptime. Now with rpmfilter and fastfeedforward 2.0 from betaflight gyro noise is much less. Is there a way? The Radix uses an OSD spectograph. Neuroflight is trying this with a neural network.
I tried your recommendations. It was not as good. Having a P gain of about 8 is much nicer when cruising on low throttle, with my C1 chaser. Especially if there is some buffeting wind.
If Pawel really knows what he is saying there must be something wrong with the hardware. Does the increased P improve pitch, roll or yaw?
@@jannesbosma9801 he does know it. I run p on 1 and its very good
Добрый вечер! А как с полетами на дальние расстояния? В каком режиме лететь? И как будет работать возврат домой с такими piff?
And why, then, in INAV 3.0, are the values obtained with autotune much higher?
I'm going to need some help to overcome my ignorance: Where do I find "Acro mode"? It's not available as a mode, other than "Horizon", "Angle", and "Manual". So, what is "Acro mode"?
Never mind..per Github: "The default flight mode does not self level the aircraft around the roll and the pitch axes. That is, the aircraft does not level on its own if you center the pitch and roll sticks on the radio. Rather, they work just like the yaw axis: the rate of rotation of each axis is controlled directly by the related stick on the radio, and by leaving them centered the flight controller will just try to keep the aircraft in whatever orientation it's in. This default mode is called "Rate" mode, also sometime called "Acro" (from "acrobatic") and is active whenever no auto-leveled mode is enabled."
I'm flying a fixed wing by the way, so the changes in direction are very jumpy on the osd compass...
Dear Pawel, After autotune my Reptile Dragon is bouncing four times on the pitch axis after steering. How to tune FF in this case?
ruclips.net/video/c8CYrUOe9Ic/видео.html
@@FPVUniversity This video is about strong steering movements. The steering I'm talking about is just very small. You could say the steering is less than the bounce. And the bounce is vèèèry slow...
@@FPVUniversity I've playing around with the rates and was able to reduce the bounce after autotune to only one. Maybe the bounce is a drift to be countered with I gain? I have a video here: ruclips.net/video/mMC94gTe20M/видео.html
Pawel is this tuning mode only applies to wings or for airplane as well?
to all fixed wings
Paweł Spychalski Thank You sir! Kudos to your channel and thank you for the FYI regarding INAV!
What about the board pitch angle setting, to the give the plane the right angle of attack for a leveled flight in the air?
if you do not use angle than it's not really needed. RTH will compensate with altitude information
On auto launch..should it be set with angle mode or horizon mode..
Whatever mode you want the plane to enter after the launch sequence. It won't make any difference to the actual launch. Your choice
I really wish there was a better way to dial in the tune on the bench before launch. Ive been trying for two weeks to get an F3 controller to stabilize a Bixler. Tried Auto tune several times, always gets out of control. Last night I tried my own PIFF settings, as soon as I switched from manual to stabilized it did a back flip and despite my best effort I could not force it to behave. Ended up just flying in manual mode the rest of the evening.
In newer version still D=0? :)
i nav is a fuc*%ng ball ache. been trying to get my wing set up with it for ages, i had and still got an s800 with an f3 board running betaflight just for stabalised flight...bloody amazing 2 years later. no stupid auto launch and headaches... it just works. got an ar900 with a matek f411 and gps, and it wont arm or fly..
So I tried removing the P and D and it did fly well however you failed to mention that RTH requires the PIDs to work...... So thanks to this my twin dream crashed straight into the ground when I activated RTH.....
Excellent info, Pawel (and one day I will learn how to type that polish 'l'....). It would be really, really helpful if you could put all that info into the inav wiki. Please, Please, Please.... ;-)
15:20 - Amen!
according to wiki here github.com/iNavFlight/inav/wiki/Tune-INAV-PIFF-controller-for-fixedwing
Increase FF-gain until you get 90% of full servo throw when having sticks at full throw when in ACRO mode compared to manual mode.
This is so the FF-gain does most of the work turning the airplane, but leaving some for the P and I gain to work with.
The 90% deflection value can also be calculated by dividing 13950 by the maximum rate for the axis, e.g. 360deg/s maximum roll 13950/360=38.75 FF. For 80% deflection, divide 12400 by rate
This should be called airmode and manual mode tuning.
TPA- yes or not ? how much?
depends on your airplane and speed envelope
@@FPVUniversity
can you do some short video about tpa?
Hello! I am currently translating this video into Russian in the form of subtitles. You will be interested if I send it to you to add to the video?
pawel you said to put p to zero and i did. And now i am trying to find out for 2 hours why the hell i have no stabilitation on rate mode. oh god! its 1:30 in the morning and i found that this is because the p is 0 ! lol
zero P it work in autonomus?
yes
@@FPVUniversity thank you sir...
I tried to use inav, but i couldn’t. The FC i have (Speedybee F4) have the same timers from PWM 1 to PWM 4 (7 total), and they set the motor to PWM 1 and 2 and servos to 3 and 4. I cannot use my motors. I ended up using betaflight for my plane, now i use my motors at S5 and S6 and servos from S1 to S4.
Not having resource remapping is the dumbest thing INAV has ever done. Or at least they should have used the correct PWM outputs for each board.
Someday i’ll try to mess with the target file to see if i can get anything better, but i don’t have any hope it will work. I don’t use GPS though, so betaflight is ok for me anyways, but there is no doubt INAV is better for fixed wings.
Great video : ) but i fly in angle mode some time ;)
Zvonimir Trgovčić leave it then. If your plane flies well don’t do ANY of what he is suggesting.
What are you printing? Haha
i am now building a wing but i also have a v-tail plane is this possible with inav? thank you for your vids you are great at explaining stuff! i would also like to know if anyone has ever tried to fly a piece of shit? ;)
Wolę drony Ale i tak masz lajka .Daj coś po polsku czasem.Podejrzewam ,że nasi rodacy nie mówią tak dobrze po angielsku a zyskałbys dodatkowa widownię.pozdrawiam
Great video, very informative. Would have been nice if you could've shown some flight examples or at least some screenshots instead of just showing your face while you explain. Visual aids next time
What's the point of using iNav for acro only for airplane when the majority of iNav users specifically use iNav for long range, stability, self level, waypoints and RTH functions? Your suggestion of using acro only for airplane makes zero sense for this AUTOpilot iNav software.
If someone wants a gyro only(acromode) plane, there is much more simpler options available. Come on pawel.
Hyprmtr good point.
I use iNav for waypoint missions and LR flights. I hardly ever use acro mode. I use iNav for these functions along with rth. I don’t know if anyone that uses iNav just for acro only. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that caught that.
I am flying LR as well and I am constantly in acro mode because it feels much better to me.
Totally agree. I couldn’t watch entire video. But I agree. I’ll keep mine way it is flies good enough.
I fly long range. I only use acro and occasionally altitude hold. I don't see the point of flying, if you're not flying it.
Fly Manual, be a pilot. Not a RoboT🤖✈️
HaHa its a late April fools joke......Because I always use Horizon.......
Lol