its crazy to think back then you and a friend could be playing the same game but having different experiences because of the system you were playing on and now you have people nostalgic for slightly different versions of the same thing, like i grew up playing the megadrive version so thats the version that sounds/looks right to me, and speaking of things sounding right, its even more of a trip when i found out all those megadrive soundtracks i have fond memories of are all wrong and running slower than intended and the true versions are the 60hz genesis versions which just sound wrong and sped up to me
There is currently a patch that fixes oversaturated colors in the Sega Genesis version of The Chaos Engine to make them look more like the Amiga version. The patch also fixes the speed of music when the game is running at 60 FPS, from an emulator. The PAL version of the Sega console retains the original title of The Chaos Engine. It is in this same version where the patch must be applied, which can be downloaded from the following page: www.romhacking.net/hacks/2754/ Having the ROM file, the patch can be applied from this page: www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/ The Sega Genesis version has some unique features, such as the ability to choose between three levels of difficulty and a wider field of view (around 20%), which substantially improves gameplay, by being able to see enemies appear from a greater distance. I sincerely believe that with the application of this patch, this version now becomes the best option when it comes to enjoying this classic. Actualmente hay un parche que corrige los colores sobresaturados en la versión de Sega Genesis de The Chaos Engine para que se parezcan más a la versión de Amiga. El parche también corrige la velocidad de la música cuando el juego se ejecuta a 60 FPS, desde un emulador. La versión PAL de la consola de Sega conserva el título original de The Chaos Engine. Es en esta misma versión donde se debe aplicar el parche, que se puede descargar desde la siguiente página: www.romhacking.net/hacks/2754/ Teniendo el archivo ROM, el parche se puede aplicar desde esta página: www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/ La versión de Sega Genesis tiene algunas características únicas, como la posibilidad de elegir entre tres niveles de dificultad y un campo de visión más amplio (alrededor del 20%), lo que mejora sustancialmente la jugabilidad, al poder ver aparecer a los enemigos desde una mayor distancia. Sinceramente creo que con la aplicación de este parche, esta versión se convierte ahora en la mejor opción a la hora de disfrutar de este clásico.
A curious fact is that Baron Fortesque's dialogue (at the end of the game) appears incomplete in the Amiga 1200 and CD32 versions, as well as in the new PC version, from 2013 (you can check it on RUclips). This to me is unforgivable... The end of this game is a great reward for the player, and this mistake completely ruins it. Certainly the interface has been improved in the console versions, the health bars have been integrated into the game area, instead of taking up much of that space, covering the bottom of the screen, and reducing visibility. Many believe that the Mega Drive version is better than the Super Nintendo version, but I totally disagree with that point of view. The SNES version has some minor issues, like a bad aspect ratio, which makes the picture look a bit flat... and some slowdowns, which could be fixed using the SA-1 Root Hack, as was done with Super R -Type. Personally, I hope that some kind soul will make it happen. There are also some emulators that can fix both problems. The Mega Drive version is unique in that it has a wider field of view than all other versions, including the original Amiga version. This, however, sometimes creates erratic movement patterns in the behavior of enemies when they appear at the edge of the screen. Also, honestly, the graphics in this version look inferior thanks to its poor color palette, which makes everything look very green and low in contrast. Although it is true that there is currently a patch that partially corrects this problem, emulating the color palette of the original version of the Amiga 500, in my opinion it still does not look good. Baron Fortesque's talking head at the end of the game has a comically high-pitched voice in the Mega Drive version (seriously, it's horrible). It looks like it would have been breathing helium. On the contrary, his voice in the SNES version sounds absolutely stunning, identical to the Amiga versions. The Mega Drive version was based on the original Commodore Amiga 500 version... while the Super Nintendo version was based on the "superior" Commodore Amiga 1200 version. Therefore, the creators of the game (The Bitmap Brothers) they considered that the SNES version was superior to the Mega Drive version... This is what they say in this interview: www.boxedpixels.co.uk/2015/11/snes-review-chaos-engines-game-092.html?m=1 I think the Amiga 500 version is still the best, but only because it lacks the problems that affect the other versions. If the A1200 version didn't have the problem with Baron Fortesque's ending dialogue, or if the MS-DOS version matched the Amiga versions in sound quality, the situation would be different.
I liked the first level music from the Mega Drive version the most. It boasts impressive-sounding percussion for the hardware, and the faster tempo had me bobbing my head.
Rob Trevellan wrote the SNES version, as he had more SNES coding experience than Eric Matthew's, Eric also of the mindset it was good to have someone bring fresh ideas to a project when you convert it to another machine, rather than ask the original coder to rehash what they had previously written.
I have always preferred the Amiga version by far, although I had a SNES growing up so that is the version I owned (and still do). I'll always have a fondness for it for how close it is aurally to the Amiga version. Recently though, with the release of the A500 mini I've now been playing through the AGA version of the game. So many memories! It's easily up there as one of my favourite games ever. It's one of the few examples of a game where the graphics, gameplay, sound and music all mesh perfectly. Love it!
Right on! currently on my first playthru of this game since the mid 90s. Im surpirsed at how much I enjoy it. Music, graphics and gameplay all work well together. The amiga 500 colors seems the best to me. More appropriate steampunk vibe
Eric Matthews of The Bitmap Bros said they only did ST Chaos Engine as their game editors and other utilities ran on the ST. AMIGA versions of their titles outsold the ST versions by a ratio of 5-to-1
I think the SNES version suffered 2-fold, which cost it at the time of release. 1.)It really needed to be enhanced for the SNES hardware, as by the time it saw a release in the platform, the hardware was really in it's stride and more colorful versions of Amiga games and more expensive ones at that, just weren't going to cut it. 2) it came out after Konami's Zombies Ate My Nieghbours and immediately felt old hat, something the visuals and sound did nothing to dispel.
As an Amiga lover, Chaos Engine is one of my prefered games. So much action, and so much impressive. With only 16 colors! Music is unforgettable, changing during level to follow the action. And we can see that Amiga can have sound AND music. The title music is wonderful, once again composed by popular musicians from the house scene of the time (Farook and Haroon Shamsher), as usual with the Bitmap Brothers. To be honest, I prefer the original ECS version. The steampunk atmosphere is better than in the AGA one, with its flashy colors. And the adventure is hard to master. A difficult task that, for once, you're happy to share even with the computer. That's the great success of Chaos Engine. In this game, they manage to code a second player controlled by the CPU that is not totally stupid! In fact, it really helps you to survive and win. And if you play the game in 60hz, it's faster, smoother with a picture that fills the screen and the music keeps the good rythm. And if you play the game installed with WHDLoad, you will enjoy multi button controls like on CD32, even with the ECS version. And you're right, the CD32 offers some redbook tracks that add background sound environment. Clearly, that's not really impressive and you loose nothing playing without them. About ST version, I think you play it on a STf configuration, what explains the low framerate and little colors and sound. If you play it on a plain with 1Mb RAM, rendering of the title tune is really better (using STe DMA), game offers hardware scrolling and same colors as on Amiga, using the 4096 color range of the expanded chipset of the STe. Sadly, no more musics and the same awful chipsounds that (strangly for the Bitmpa Brothers) are not up to even what the ST can usually offer. From here all the versions use the flashy colors of the Amiga AGA version, that is a sad choice imo. The DOS version always puzzles me. From 1991, the power of PC should have permit to play the same music modules as on Amiga, maybe with less sound quality. Using MIDI was not a great deal here. Megadrive version is nice and I'm not shocked by the 25fps scrolling as I was playing on Amiga 🤣 It playing area is really bigger. But I'm not fond of the color choice, flashy and limited to 512 colors. And music... difficult to play with this soup. I'm ok to hear someone telling me that the FM sound of the Megadrive is beautiful, even if it is difficult when you're accustomed to Paula on Amiga, but with original compositions made for sound chips. Converting Amiga musics to Megadrive is a very difficult exercice and I prefer when the musician decides to create a new score that fit better to the sound chip of the destination system. Here the conversion is not really nice... and the music is so beautiful on Amiga, no, it's not possible 😂 Sound on SNES version is surprising, particularly the title music. I think they included a mod replayer and that's really the Amiga music mod that is playing. Impressive (I saw that on the SNES version of Wolfchild in another Battle Of The Ports). Sadly, once again, the ridiculous screen size ruin everything. I remember a Java version I own for my Nokia 6600, in the beginning of the 2K years. Really funny to have Chaos Engine in your pocket. But not really playable 🤣. You can already download it here and run it from a Java Environment : dedomil.net/games/2641/screens Anyway, Chaos Engine is an experience everyone would have to try in his retrogamer life 👌
As much as I like most of their games, the Bitmap Brothers were never code wizards. The Chaos Engine is a 25 fps game, with very few elements appearing to update at 50 hz (a common limitation of Amiga hardware sprites). Plus all NTSC versions seem to be non optimised, just forced at 30 fps and slightly accelerated. But all in all this is a great game everywhere, one of the most original and influential games of its time. I bet a lot of gamers in Europe were introduced to the literary genre of Steampunk by this very game.
@@alritedave A lot of games. But it was a common "trick" to make some stuff update at 50hz while other stuff update at 25hz, so you could get better speed.
I'd consider Chaos Engine to be a strong contender for the Bitmap Brothers best game, there's actually a lot of depth in there with lots of secrets that govern item drops, pathways and hidden rooms. As the difficulty ramps up, the optimal path for getting as much loot as possible from each stage is needed to get your pairing of characters upgraded as quick as possible. It's actually advantageous to pick one of the less intelligent characters as your partner, they're less likely to go around grabbing all the items you need. There is no perfect version sadly, most of the versions have features you'd want that are lacking in another version. The multi button control and full screen render of the Megadrive version combined with the increased colour depth and sound of the AGA Amiga version would be great.
I actually prefer the color in the OCS version of which the Mega Drive version is based on. sound on the other hand is a matter of taste, there are tracks that I prefer on Amiga while others I prefer on Mega Drive (and I personally enjoy the ST tunes including the lo-fi title screen rendition that feels particularly apt) btw I'd need to play and dig those more, but best bitmap brothers game seems to be something between Speedball 2, Cadaver, Gods, The Chaos Engine or Z. yeah, that's still a lot of contender...
Not sure if we have watched the same game here because the Mega Drive version runs the smoothest and has the largest playfield! It also get rid of loading times and has more options. And the music, while sounding different, is fuller with much more bass! To me, it feels like "The Chaos Engine ~The Arcade Game~" just like other Amiga to Mega Drive ports such as Risky Woods, Gods or Zool do! The SNES port on the other hand sounds a bit off and has cropped screen due to the system limited resolution (256 pixels of width vs 320 for Amiga/Mega Drive). The SNES usually struggles with Amiga ports anyway, see also Pinball Dreams, James Pond 2, Zool... The ST port turned out worse than some other Bitmap Brothers games on the system but it still seems decent and I personally enjoy the music rendition (including the lo-fi title theme which feels particularly apt). A STe version could have been nice though, dunno if it happened... And the CD32 version, well, buying a brand new Amiga CD32 back then must have been one of the most disappointing things ever! Seriously, is there at least 4-5 games (preferrably exclusive) that *really* justify buying the frigging thing??! edit: just noticed that there's also an Acorn 32-bit version that didn't make it to this video. Acorn stuff seems very good from what I can tell yet it seems so overlooked...
@Nighthawk I barely played this game but yeah, it seems so! I also wonder how the AI compare from one version to another... btw youtube seems to get worse and worse. I just got a thumb up from someone (you?) yet it doesn't seem to have been registered. as if the maintenance of such sites in 2019 was too much to ask lol
@@pablodaniel-retrogamer716 I just state things as they are and given a specific context, the way comparisons should be done! And what we have here? The Amiga (1985 hardware), Mega Drive (1988) and SNES (1990). Furthermore, SNES games were usually more expensive than other systems. And despite all of this, the Amiga and Mega Drive once again offer a better and more timeless experience than the SNES in many ways. The SNES version sounds off, has more performance issues and, worst of all, has cropped screen (20% less) and wrong aspect ratio since SNES resolution isn't even 4:3 but 8:7 instead. It's rather baffling don't you think? And like I said in my OP, there are many other similar cases such as Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasy, James Pond 2, Desert Strike and so on... So in retrospect, even though it has some great games (including some personal fav' such as Super Aleste or Secret of Mana), the SNES was a bit of a scam and it's sad how it messed up with visual standards by not even being able to display a proper 4:3 picture (and this fooled many people by making them thinking "Oh look SNES games have bigger graphics!" but nope, just deformed :/
@@alritedave Which ones then? And as I said preferrably exclusives! :) Furthermore, I don't like the CD32 controller nor the connectivity... One thing I still wonder about though is the "Akiko chip" that supposedly can do wonders but I've yet to see about that...
With regards to the CD32 version, that additional bird, bubble, etc noise is actually from the CD. A rare occasion where the CD was put to good use on the CD32. :)
@@RetroCore There are many java games in the internet that you can play on a mobile emulator but it's fine I guess Quick facts about the mobile version: - All mercenaries available - Only 3 worlds. The workshop not included - Has different music - Less type of enemies - The framerate is atrocious but fine I guess Overall I'd still pick the MD version or CD32. Great video though!
The thing with playing DOS games on modern PCs is that DOS generally used a 70Hz refresh rate (although this could be adjusted by the programmer,) while modern displays are 60Hz. That means that there's no clean way to emulate smooth-scrolling DOS games without screen tearing.
I was always amazed at what Bitmap Brothers managed to pull off on the Amiga. I've always owned the Snes version of this game but also played the Megadrive version quite a bit as well as having a brief stint with the CD32. The game comes through great on Snes and while the Megadrive version is also pretty good it's a mystery to me why that version manages to have slowdown the way it does.
@@RetroCore you should make a Worms comparison. I was surprised how bad looks the SNES and MD version VS the Amiga one (and let alone the AGA one which is splendid).
Good video, but I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of the Mega Drive version. I grew up with both it and the Atari ST versions and while I agree the ST's port is very limited at best, the Mega Drive gameplay is smooth enough, the soundtrack is pumping FM dance that rivals the Amiga and overall provides a more than great blasting experience. I'm sure the SNES music hardware helps it sound closer to the Amiga as well.
I actually like the game quite a bit too. I never beat it, but played it, and the sequel quite a bit. I think if it was made as a twin-stick game, it would be a lot more fun. (not that those were common outside the arcade and maybe SNES back then. I'd play a modern one that had twin-stick controls though. ;)
I honestly never heard of this game back in the day, but this is the most 90s soundtrack ever. It feels like Angelina Jolie will jump into the screen and hack her way to victory at any moment. Cheers from México.
And then there's the modern computer port (Windows 7 - 10, MacOS and Linux) by Abstract Games and published by Rebellion (Now they owned all of the Bitmap Brothers IP) which is essentially the Amiga version with blooming, scale filters and using a modern gamepad to play. Apart from the game being very faithful to the Amiga version (with the graphics coming from the Amiga 1200 and CD32) the Blooming effects makes the game look a bit awful, luckily you can disable it when you start the game (same goes for the scale filters if you are concerned about pixel purity) & the gameplay runs a bit sluggish to me with the frame rate dropping out every now and then, even though I have CPU and a graphics card that is more than the mininum requirement.
The console versions of The Chaos Engine are European versions (PAL) that run at 50 fps. The North American versions called Soliders Of Fortune do run in 60 fps because of NTSC. Personally I like the PAL versions since feel closer to the Amiga originals....the NTSC ports run too damn fast!
The console versions are running on Japanese systems so they are running in 60htz. Console games run at the speed determined by the hardware, not the software unless a game has been PAL optimised. In that case they'd run too fast on a Japanese or US system.
Unfortunately most/all Bitmap Brothers games ran at half frame rate even on consoles - same thing happens with Magic Pockets, GODS, Xenon 2, Speedball. Great game tho, I had it on PC and used to play it both single player and co-op with a schoolfriend a lot. Had a very finely tuned currency + upgrade system if memory serves.
Thank you for the comparisons! I was curious about the games recently and which is the best of the bunch. Sadly though, your commentary about "Should run at 60 frames on console" is few and far between, the industry standard then and even now is 30FPS, with well tuned and optimized games hitting 60. Hell< I don't even remember 60FPS being touted as a thing until PS1 days with Tobal No1
On the older consoles only the games doing fancy graphical stuff didn't run at 60fps for the most part, like games doing polygons or background scaling, but for regular 2D games they 95% of the time ran at 60fps on Nintendo consoles, the PC Engine and every Sega Console aside for the 32X. Other systems like the Jaguar, 3DO or most computers did struggle with 2D games though. Even now most 2D games like indies run at 60fps unless it's a bad Switch port or something like that.
Welp, looks like Mark got me again with another title I'm not familiar with. But leave it to Mark to educated me on game that I'm uncertain of knowing for sure. Well done bro. 8^) Anthony..
@@MarcSola7 bingo. I once appeared in the 'crowd' on said show series 2 with dominik diamond. Not how you imagine such things filmed as it was extremely tedious and lots of waiting around.
Oh this game ! Yet another Amiga gem ! The option to hire different members and upgrades kind of resembles me the strategic game released in 1994 for PC, Jagged Alliance. Another good game, but sadly nothing for the BotP show Anyways Im waiting some day for the DejaVu point and click game. To be fair you could probably do a long episode and include the first and second game at once
@@RetroCore it was a PC release, turn based strategy where you controlled your mercenaries. Jagged Alliance 2 from 1999 was imo a better game. It wasnt widely popular, as well as many of the PC games being exclusive to the computers in the 90s. It was also the time I had much more in common with the computers than consoles. It all changed later in the late 90s with Saturn and PS, and it was a big turn in my gaming experience
This was a good game at the time. Usally played as Thug for that nice shotgun. I think the high color versions looks nice but doesnt fit the dark steampunk style as well?
This game would really shine with an Ikari Warriors/Heavy Barrel-style rotational joystick for better aiming. Or maybe a twin stick control scheme. None of which were options when it came out, sadly. I had a one-level demo of this game from an Amiga magazine coverdisk, and I really wanted to like the game, but it was just so easy to get killed I could never even finish the demo level. I had hoped the US Genesis port (stupidly retitled Soldiers of Fortune) might have a better gameplay experience, but it wasn't at all. I even bought an emulated port to the Blackberry Playbook tablet years ago, not realizing that if I struggled to dodge enemy fire with a joystick I would find it far more difficult with a touchscreen. Sigh.
@@RetroCore It makes me wonder if somebody else had copyrighted the name Chaos Engine in the US. Just like Star Fox had to be Star Wing in the UK and then getting changed again into Lylat Wars on the N64, or the Dreamcast's orange spiral logo getting changed blue for Europe due to a Polish company's logo being similar, there's the possibility that "Chaos Engine" had been previously claimed in the US. Otherwise, there was no good reason to change the title to something as incredibly bland and generic as "Soliders of Fortune". The Chaos Engine name stands out and is evocative of the steampunk style of game it is, the US name is completely forgettable... maybe that's why Soldiers of Fortune is pretty much forgotten over here.
The SNES handled arcade twin-stick shooters like Smash TV and Total Carnage pretty well using the four face buttons as sort of a second d-pad. I would have liked to have seen a similar control scheme on the SNES version, but I doubt that was every a consideration.
Being a Bitmap Brothers fan, not being able to play this game back on the day was kind of a pending subject. I must say thay now that I can play it in real hardware, both on the MD and the SNES, it doesn't dissapoint (if you're not familiar already with the original Amiga version, that is): it's funny and deliciously steampunk.
Mike Montgomery had said they'd have loved to release a Bitmap Brothers Retro Compiliation on PS2, Xbox etc but they could'nt find a publisher willing to handle it 😭
@@ryzmaker11 I don't think it uses the blitter, either. The color palette is better than the regular ST version, but it's still not as good as the OCS version, imo. Especially when you factor in audio.
Of course it's not the greatest game in the world, because that's Elite, but it comes close. Outstanding overhead run-and-game by the Bitmap Brothers. Imho their by far best (although some may prefer Speedball 2). Excellent choice. Unfortunately they totally botched the sequel.
Its a 1MB Amiga game and cannot been played on the base Amiga 500 without the memory expansion that was required for this game. That shows the graphics and the quite clean samples that was used for this game, and its was used very well. That is more that was possible on the console really when talking about sound. Im meant you cant simple not fit a 200kb ingame tune(s) (300kb on the title tune) to the SNES without comprimse at all! This part was some one other also wrote about it.
I read somewhere that the Amiga 32 version had strafe movement, is this true? I love top down run-and-gun games like "true lies" on snes, and if chaos engine had a strafe mode it might seriously improve the experience...
@@scootakuh3142 Funny you should say that, since I prefer MD announcer voice for it's mechanical roughness (but yes, it's the first and until this video the only version I've been exposed to, so bias)
Interesting. I never heard of this game. Might have to check it out sometime. Seems like a more involved Smash TV which is a game I love. Actually it also reminds me of the new Xeno Crisis game also for the Mega Drive and PS4.
It hasn't much to do with Smash TV, more a Commando/Mercs type of run & gun with RPG elements. Xeno Crisis is indeed influenced by the Bitmap Brothers "chrome" graphics.
Although I love Robotron and thus also Smash TV, Chaos Engine is a far more balanced and refined game. Robotron is action pure, while in Chaos Engine you have to think (although this might not come across, when just viewing this video and having never played it), where you are going, wihout turning it into a puzzler. At the same time, your shooting directions have (intentionally) been limited, so that you also need to think how to move to kill the beasts, without getting hit. In addition you need to remember pretty much all of every level (as in a shoot em up) to not run into those myriads of traps killing you. Further it adds RPG elements of selectively upgrading your character (and co-op partner). And it does it in a completely balanced way, integrating these things in a way that feels completely natural. It's an outstanding game and definitely in the Top 10 or 5 of all Amiga games.
@@frankschneider6156 Oh yeah,you are totally right. It looks really fun.I just instantly think of Smash TV when I see a game like this. Robotron also,both games made by Eugene Jarvis,an awesome early game designer. Technically you are right in that it's more like Commando or Mercs. I suppose you could go back to Tato's Front Line which might be the first game of that kind. Like I said I'll have to try the Mega Drive version out since I don't have an Amiga handy.
@@RetroCore Sounds like fun. You always do some interesting games Mark. Even when they aren't good. Lol. I think you did Smash TV already right? I remember the Super NES one being really good,had some hidden stuff in that game too.
More care was def put into the SNES version, but I'd say both the MD and SNES versions are equal. I like the music in both equally, but both have their different pros. SNES has an intro MD has a better resolution SNES has better use of color (as expected) MD has less slowdown than SNES (also expected) Still, the Amiga original is no slouch here either. It might be one of the only times the console versions DON'T slaughter the Amiga version easily.
Actually, there are a number of occasions when the Amiga version outperforms console counterparts such as Battle Squadron, Speedball 2, the Lotus games, Robocod, Desert Strike, Pinball Dreams et al.
Also, the SNES version has more than double the amount of inherent input lag (lag embedded into the code, nothing to do with screens or controllers or emulation) than the Mega Drive version. 5-6 frames vs 2-3.
@@solarflare9078 I usually test for this using the frame advance feature in Retroarch. See the paragraph "How to check the amount of lag frames a game has" in this page www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-1-7-2-released/
The game's Victorian England theme is inspired for sure and the soundtrack is genuinely great but the Commando-style controls aged terribly. If this would have had the ability to lock your aim (by holding down the fire button) or better yet, twinstick controls - and adjusted monster count to balance the difficulty - it would have been a timeless classic.
The MS-DOS port might not tear when running on real hardware (70hz timing). But the game is really annoying to get running on hardware, its SB routine doesn't like clone cards and is CPU speed sensitive.
Technically this is real hardware, PC is a PC 😋. But yeah, I know what you mean. Sadly I don't have a Retro PC unless I count the Fujitsu FM Towns 2 which is 486 based.
Not sure why you liking this game would be a surprise. It's a damned good game in the vein of Total Carnage or Smash TV, but most importantly, it was made for the Amiga, instead of being a godawful arcade conversion.
Because there are mny idiots on the net who think I bash Amiga games just because they are Amiga games. The real reason why I bash them is because they're crap 😋
Speedball 2 is probably my favorite Bitmap Brothers game, but, then again, the Soldiers of Furtune/Chaos Engine port on the Genesis is the only other game I've played for any extended period of time from the company. It was one of the games my cousin and I rented a few weekends but never owned. I remember liking the visual style and music, but, to be honest, don't remember much about the game itself. However, it's nice to see these types of games on BotP. ...But the big question is: what absolutely horrendous game must you subject yourself to celebrate the 15th anniversary of Shite of the Month! I'm not sure of the date, but it was part way through that first volume of Retro Core. So, I'm pretty sure it's sometime next year. Will Mark subject himself to playing every game from Acclaim? Ocean? Maybe he'll melt his eyes and destroy his hearing playing awful unlicensed games with turd-smear graphics and music that would kill the dead. Maybe he'll play so much Mortal Kombat on the GameBoy that he'll be driven insane. No, I know: a retrospective on Gray Matter inc! O_O haha
Yeah, Speedball 2 is probably most people's favourite Bitmap Brothers game, myself included. I can't really think of any other game of theirs that doesn't have any real flaws in it.
@@RetroCore Yeah, maybe we declare 2020 to be the "Year of the Shite-free Games". Sadly, if you have enough western computer ports for BotP, I don't think you'll be able to avoid them completely. haha. I tried to get the worst of my crap game playing done yesterday by playing Carmagedon 64 on the N64. I finally got around to re-soldering the power connector on my N64's motherboard after I lent the system to a local library for an event they were having, and they let some random homeless guys damage it (I'm not evven joking a bit...). Anyways, Carmageddon 64 was one of the games I grabbed off the shelf to test with...like an idiot. So, happy holidays, and I hope you play some good games...at least better than I chose to play over the weekend!
I’ve been revisiting some bit brothers games recently, Xenon 2, Gods, Speedball 2 and this. And I’ll be honest I love the graphics and unique look and ideas. But they aren’t very fun to play :( even this. I didn’t get far with it.
Apart from Speedball2, which is addictive as all heck I agree. Never thought much of most of their games. Best thing they ever did was Ruff 'n Tumble, under the Renegade label.
Why would it come as a surprise the fact you enjoy this game? :) It is actually very good, and this is coming from someone who always bashes Bitmap Brothers games for being overrated good looking pieces of crap :D I am very pissed at this game though as I could never beat level 4-4, which is the last level. I've reached it a fair amount of times but I always die there. hehe. I've played it recently again and hit the same wall, ugh. But the game aged incredibly well, it's really very well made and fun to play. The music was made by the late Richard Joseph and it's awesome, one of his finest works (and he was absurdly talented), I remember reading an interview with him saying this was the game the devs gave him more memory to work with, something around 200kb of memory is used exclusively for sound (which is a *lot* for the time and a lot more than the 64kb the SNES allows, maybe that's why the game doesn't sound as clear on the SNES) Also the way the music changes as you get closer to the end of the level is pretty cool. And I really prefer the original ECS Amiga graphics over the upgraded versions. I really think the more "colorful" graphics make the game looks less steampunk and more cartoonish, but in a bad way. IMO Amiga ECS version is the version to play of the game, having also played the MS-DOS, SNES and Mega-Drive versions. (the later one really kills the lovely soundtrack) It was also good to see the Brothers finally using the Amiga properly instead of doing their usual ST ports. That's probably why this is their finest game ever :)
People seem to think I bash all Amiga games but that's not true. It just so happens that most I cover are awful 😋. I was also reading an interview with Joseph which mentions he had to use some speacil coding techniques to get the speech on to the SNES version while keeping a rather high quality of audio.
@@RetroCore Me being an Amiga fanboy, I even think sometimes you go easy on some of its really horrible arcade ports :D I love the Amiga, but you can't run from the fact that lots of its arcade ports are really awful.
@@RetroCore Amiga was NEVER a bad system. It had a lot under the hood for the mid 80s and early 90s. It's just that most european software houses didn't give a shit about quality, especially those arcade conversions! You give the system to someone who cared, like the Bitmap Brothers or Factor 5, whose ports of R-Type and BC Kid (Bonk's Adventure) are majestic, and you can see what the system could have been had there been more dev houses who were looking to do more than rip people off.
Much like Cannon Fodder and Sensible Soccer, the Amiga version is the best. Truth be told, I never liked Chaos Engine - I never cared for these kinds of top-down run'n'gunners like this and Alien Breed that were so popular on the Amiga - but that intro tune never gets out of my head.
Cannon Fodder is best to been played on a computer as well, yes, so clearly a win on Amiga/PC. A Joypad can newer simulate a mouse at all and is required to play this game in the designed way. No less and no more! Also surpricly no other ports could even replicate the Amiga open tune correctly as well.
Amiga have a lots of PD games like this one. Im diddent hear of that one too. But its look like a nice ripoff, even its dont sound good or have ai and is a more simpler game. but those kind of games can still been fun.
Those old SoundBlaster cards only supported one stereo channels, like Gameboy Advance. So its was up to mix them using software, which was quite cpu senative those days. But they could have least have used cd audio, which did used zero cpu task at all. Today we still use software mixer those days today, but its very very trivial.
@@spacefractal ahh. I always though it was 8 channels or something. Would have been so good if we could have had a 8 chanell 16 bit thing for cd games back in the day. I hate pc midi from the 90s and get so pissed off when people hold up Dooms music as good game music... Mate it's shit midi versions of metal fuck off... The playstation doom soundtrack is so much better.
@@infesticon Gravis has hardware mixing about 32 channels and did contain memory for instruments. For Sound Blaster did just contains one PCM, rest was midi based and instruments cant often been changed. Some SoundBlaster cards did do have memory throught, like the AWE32. Im did do liked the Doom music back in the days, suited well, if you have right card. Also you should checkout the 3D0 verion. Its mightbeen a bad port, but its have excellent remixed music. Also im liked when dos games used mod music rather than midi music. mod music is often that way you did on Amiga, while on PC was of course software based.
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
Artist Dan Malone described the look of the game is to imagine if there had been a nuclear apocalypse in the Victorian Era
its crazy to think back then you and a friend could be playing the same game but having different experiences because of the system you were playing on and now you have people nostalgic for slightly different versions of the same thing, like i grew up playing the megadrive version so thats the version that sounds/looks right to me, and speaking of things sounding right, its even more of a trip when i found out all those megadrive soundtracks i have fond memories of are all wrong and running slower than intended and the true versions are the 60hz genesis versions which just sound wrong and sped up to me
There is currently a patch that fixes oversaturated colors in the Sega Genesis version of The Chaos Engine to make them look more like the Amiga version.
The patch also fixes the speed of music when the game is running at 60 FPS, from an emulator.
The PAL version of the Sega console retains the original title of The Chaos Engine.
It is in this same version where the patch must be applied, which can be downloaded from the following page:
www.romhacking.net/hacks/2754/
Having the ROM file, the patch can be applied from this page:
www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/
The Sega Genesis version has some unique features, such as the ability to choose between three levels of difficulty and a wider field of view (around 20%), which substantially improves gameplay, by being able to see enemies appear from a greater distance.
I sincerely believe that with the application of this patch, this version now becomes the best option when it comes to enjoying this classic.
Actualmente hay un parche que corrige los colores sobresaturados en la versión de Sega Genesis de The Chaos Engine para que se parezcan más a la versión de Amiga.
El parche también corrige la velocidad de la música cuando el juego se ejecuta a 60 FPS, desde un emulador.
La versión PAL de la consola de Sega conserva el título original de The Chaos Engine.
Es en esta misma versión donde se debe aplicar el parche, que se puede descargar desde la siguiente página:
www.romhacking.net/hacks/2754/
Teniendo el archivo ROM, el parche se puede aplicar desde esta página:
www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/
La versión de Sega Genesis tiene algunas características únicas, como la posibilidad de elegir entre tres niveles de dificultad y un campo de visión más amplio (alrededor del 20%), lo que mejora sustancialmente la jugabilidad, al poder ver aparecer a los enemigos desde una mayor distancia.
Sinceramente creo que con la aplicación de este parche, esta versión se convierte ahora en la mejor opción a la hora de disfrutar de este clásico.
That Amiga !music hits every time
This game does have a cool soundtrack.
A curious fact is that Baron Fortesque's dialogue (at the end of the game) appears incomplete in the Amiga 1200 and CD32 versions, as well as in the new PC version, from 2013 (you can check it on RUclips). This to me is unforgivable... The end of this game is a great reward for the player, and this mistake completely ruins it.
Certainly the interface has been improved in the console versions, the health bars have been integrated into the game area, instead of taking up much of that space, covering the bottom of the screen, and reducing visibility.
Many believe that the Mega Drive version is better than the Super Nintendo version, but I totally disagree with that point of view. The SNES version has some minor issues, like a bad aspect ratio, which makes the picture look a bit flat... and some slowdowns, which could be fixed using the SA-1 Root Hack, as was done with Super R -Type. Personally, I hope that some kind soul will make it happen. There are also some emulators that can fix both problems.
The Mega Drive version is unique in that it has a wider field of view than all other versions, including the original Amiga version. This, however, sometimes creates erratic movement patterns in the behavior of enemies when they appear at the edge of the screen.
Also, honestly, the graphics in this version look inferior thanks to its poor color palette, which makes everything look very green and low in contrast. Although it is true that there is currently a patch that partially corrects this problem, emulating the color palette of the original version of the Amiga 500, in my opinion it still does not look good.
Baron Fortesque's talking head at the end of the game has a comically high-pitched voice in the Mega Drive version (seriously, it's horrible). It looks like it would have been breathing helium. On the contrary, his voice in the SNES version sounds absolutely stunning, identical to the Amiga versions.
The Mega Drive version was based on the original Commodore Amiga 500 version... while the Super Nintendo version was based on the "superior" Commodore Amiga 1200 version. Therefore, the creators of the game (The Bitmap Brothers) they considered that the SNES version was superior to the Mega Drive version... This is what they say in this interview:
www.boxedpixels.co.uk/2015/11/snes-review-chaos-engines-game-092.html?m=1
I think the Amiga 500 version is still the best, but only because it lacks the problems that affect the other versions. If the A1200 version didn't have the problem with Baron Fortesque's ending dialogue, or if the MS-DOS version matched the Amiga versions in sound quality, the situation would be different.
I liked the first level music from the Mega Drive version the most. It boasts impressive-sounding percussion for the hardware, and the faster tempo had me bobbing my head.
Rob Trevellan wrote the SNES version, as he had more SNES coding experience than Eric Matthew's, Eric also of the mindset it was good to have someone bring fresh ideas to a project when you convert it to another machine, rather than ask the original coder to rehash what they had previously written.
That's a good mindset to have
I have always preferred the Amiga version by far, although I had a SNES growing up so that is the version I owned (and still do). I'll always have a fondness for it for how close it is aurally to the Amiga version. Recently though, with the release of the A500 mini I've now been playing through the AGA version of the game. So many memories! It's easily up there as one of my favourite games ever. It's one of the few examples of a game where the graphics, gameplay, sound and music all mesh perfectly. Love it!
Right on! currently on my first playthru of this game since the mid 90s. Im surpirsed at how much I enjoy it. Music, graphics and gameplay all work well together. The amiga 500 colors seems the best to me. More appropriate steampunk vibe
Crazy. Never ever heard of this one until now. Great work as usual, Mark!
Eric Matthews of The Bitmap Bros said they only did ST Chaos Engine as their game editors and other utilities ran on the ST.
AMIGA versions of their titles outsold the ST versions by a ratio of 5-to-1
I think the SNES version suffered 2-fold, which cost it at the time of release.
1.)It really needed to be enhanced for the SNES hardware, as by the time it saw a release in the platform, the hardware was really in it's stride and more colorful versions of Amiga games and more expensive ones at that, just weren't going to cut it.
2) it came out after Konami's Zombies Ate My Nieghbours and immediately felt old hat, something the visuals and sound did nothing to dispel.
As an Amiga lover, Chaos Engine is one of my prefered games. So much action, and so much impressive. With only 16 colors! Music is unforgettable, changing during level to follow the action. And we can see that Amiga can have sound AND music. The title music is wonderful, once again composed by popular musicians from the house scene of the time (Farook and Haroon Shamsher), as usual with the Bitmap Brothers. To be honest, I prefer the original ECS version. The steampunk atmosphere is better than in the AGA one, with its flashy colors. And the adventure is hard to master. A difficult task that, for once, you're happy to share even with the computer. That's the great success of Chaos Engine. In this game, they manage to code a second player controlled by the CPU that is not totally stupid! In fact, it really helps you to survive and win. And if you play the game in 60hz, it's faster, smoother with a picture that fills the screen and the music keeps the good rythm. And if you play the game installed with WHDLoad, you will enjoy multi button controls like on CD32, even with the ECS version.
And you're right, the CD32 offers some redbook tracks that add background sound environment. Clearly, that's not really impressive and you loose nothing playing without them.
About ST version, I think you play it on a STf configuration, what explains the low framerate and little colors and sound. If you play it on a plain with 1Mb RAM, rendering of the title tune is really better (using STe DMA), game offers hardware scrolling and same colors as on Amiga, using the 4096 color range of the expanded chipset of the STe. Sadly, no more musics and the same awful chipsounds that (strangly for the Bitmpa Brothers) are not up to even what the ST can usually offer.
From here all the versions use the flashy colors of the Amiga AGA version, that is a sad choice imo.
The DOS version always puzzles me. From 1991, the power of PC should have permit to play the same music modules as on Amiga, maybe with less sound quality. Using MIDI was not a great deal here.
Megadrive version is nice and I'm not shocked by the 25fps scrolling as I was playing on Amiga 🤣 It playing area is really bigger. But I'm not fond of the color choice, flashy and limited to 512 colors. And music... difficult to play with this soup. I'm ok to hear someone telling me that the FM sound of the Megadrive is beautiful, even if it is difficult when you're accustomed to Paula on Amiga, but with original compositions made for sound chips. Converting Amiga musics to Megadrive is a very difficult exercice and I prefer when the musician decides to create a new score that fit better to the sound chip of the destination system. Here the conversion is not really nice... and the music is so beautiful on Amiga, no, it's not possible 😂
Sound on SNES version is surprising, particularly the title music. I think they included a mod replayer and that's really the Amiga music mod that is playing. Impressive (I saw that on the SNES version of Wolfchild in another Battle Of The Ports). Sadly, once again, the ridiculous screen size ruin everything.
I remember a Java version I own for my Nokia 6600, in the beginning of the 2K years. Really funny to have Chaos Engine in your pocket. But not really playable 🤣. You can already download it here and run it from a Java Environment : dedomil.net/games/2641/screens
Anyway, Chaos Engine is an experience everyone would have to try in his retrogamer life 👌
Imagine dubbing the game engine powering this game “The The Chaos Engine Engine”.
“For this new remaster, The The Chaos Engine Engine is now running within Unreal Engine, making it the Unreal The The Chaos Engine Engine Engine 5”
Thank you for doing one of my most favorite game on the snes bro been waiting for this battle of the port for a long time
Glad you enjoyed the show.
This is one of those games that plays simple, but feels good to play
And also.... Gentleman main here, and Thug as a Assist
Couldn't agree more, including the character configuration.
My literal thought when I just saw this video: "Retro Core Chaos Engine?! Aw yeah!"
"FOOD!" The Amiga 500 version of the game is where its at IMHO. Classic game indeed.
A500 version is the original and by far the best version especially with that music and rightfully so.
As much as I like most of their games, the Bitmap Brothers were never code wizards. The Chaos Engine is a 25 fps game, with very few elements appearing to update at 50 hz (a common limitation of Amiga hardware sprites). Plus all NTSC versions seem to be non optimised, just forced at 30 fps and slightly accelerated. But all in all this is a great game everywhere, one of the most original and influential games of its time. I bet a lot of gamers in Europe were introduced to the literary genre of Steampunk by this very game.
Framerate is in no way connected directly to hardware sprites.
@@beezle1976 no, but the use of blitter objects to overcome the hardware sprites number limitations means that the game has to run at 25-30 Hz.
How many Amiga games are above 25FPS?
@@alritedave Plenty. e.g. The Alien Breed games in the very same genre, Leander, The Turrican games and many others.
@@alritedave A lot of games.
But it was a common "trick" to make some stuff update at 50hz while other stuff update at 25hz, so you could get better speed.
I actually prefer the colors of the Amiga version over the CD32 one, especially the green of the trees.
Same.
I can't argue there. It looks too bright on the CD32.
for 60fps you have to play us-version Soldiers of Fortune
I just want a 60fps Chaos Engine remaster like that Gods remaster from a couple of years back.
I agree. A 60fps version would be nice.
I'd consider Chaos Engine to be a strong contender for the Bitmap Brothers best game, there's actually a lot of depth in there with lots of secrets that govern item drops, pathways and hidden rooms. As the difficulty ramps up, the optimal path for getting as much loot as possible from each stage is needed to get your pairing of characters upgraded as quick as possible.
It's actually advantageous to pick one of the less intelligent characters as your partner, they're less likely to go around grabbing all the items you need.
There is no perfect version sadly, most of the versions have features you'd want that are lacking in another version. The multi button control and full screen render of the Megadrive version combined with the increased colour depth and sound of the AGA Amiga version would be great.
I actually prefer the color in the OCS version of which the Mega Drive version is based on. sound on the other hand is a matter of taste, there are tracks that I prefer on Amiga while others I prefer on Mega Drive (and I personally enjoy the ST tunes including the lo-fi title screen rendition that feels particularly apt)
btw I'd need to play and dig those more, but best bitmap brothers game seems to be something between Speedball 2, Cadaver, Gods, The Chaos Engine or Z. yeah, that's still a lot of contender...
Agree, Imho the by far best Bitmap Brothers game. Speedball 2 is obviously not bad too, but doesn't strike a chord with me, like this does.
It is the best Bitmap Brothers game.
Loved this on my 600! That intro on the cd32 version needs a remake with Matt berry 😂
Not sure if we have watched the same game here because the Mega Drive version runs the smoothest and has the largest playfield! It also get rid of loading times and has more options. And the music, while sounding different, is fuller with much more bass! To me, it feels like "The Chaos Engine ~The Arcade Game~" just like other Amiga to Mega Drive ports such as Risky Woods, Gods or Zool do!
The SNES port on the other hand sounds a bit off and has cropped screen due to the system limited resolution (256 pixels of width vs 320 for Amiga/Mega Drive). The SNES usually struggles with Amiga ports anyway, see also Pinball Dreams, James Pond 2, Zool...
The ST port turned out worse than some other Bitmap Brothers games on the system but it still seems decent and I personally enjoy the music rendition (including the lo-fi title theme which feels particularly apt). A STe version could have been nice though, dunno if it happened...
And the CD32 version, well, buying a brand new Amiga CD32 back then must have been one of the most disappointing things ever! Seriously, is there at least 4-5 games (preferrably exclusive) that *really* justify buying the frigging thing??!
edit: just noticed that there's also an Acorn 32-bit version that didn't make it to this video. Acorn stuff seems very good from what I can tell yet it seems so overlooked...
@Nighthawk I barely played this game but yeah, it seems so! I also wonder how the AI compare from one version to another...
btw youtube seems to get worse and worse. I just got a thumb up from someone (you?) yet it doesn't seem to have been registered. as if the maintenance of such sites in 2019 was too much to ask lol
Why so much hate to snes?
@@pablodaniel-retrogamer716 I just state things as they are and given a specific context, the way comparisons should be done!
And what we have here? The Amiga (1985 hardware), Mega Drive (1988) and SNES (1990). Furthermore, SNES games were usually more expensive than other systems. And despite all of this, the Amiga and Mega Drive once again offer a better and more timeless experience than the SNES in many ways. The SNES version sounds off, has more performance issues and, worst of all, has cropped screen (20% less) and wrong aspect ratio since SNES resolution isn't even 4:3 but 8:7 instead.
It's rather baffling don't you think? And like I said in my OP, there are many other similar cases such as Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasy, James Pond 2, Desert Strike and so on...
So in retrospect, even though it has some great games (including some personal fav' such as Super Aleste or Secret of Mana), the SNES was a bit of a scam and it's sad how it messed up with visual standards by not even being able to display a proper 4:3 picture (and this fooled many people by making them thinking "Oh look SNES games have bigger graphics!" but nope, just deformed :/
The CD32 is actually better than you may expect. It got quite a few good games, but that fact rarely gets mentioned.
@@alritedave Which ones then? And as I said preferrably exclusives! :)
Furthermore, I don't like the CD32 controller nor the connectivity...
One thing I still wonder about though is the "Akiko chip" that supposedly can do wonders but I've yet to see about that...
I encourage you to try DOSBox-X instead of the vanilla version. It's much more precise in emulation and well maintained
Thanks for the info. I'll look in to installing that.
i know that the bitmap brothers is one of the great british development houses and the soundtracks from some of the games are house influnenced
They are well known for their style. Sadly not their game play in most game's cases.
With regards to the CD32 version, that additional bird, bubble, etc noise is actually from the CD. A rare occasion where the CD was put to good use on the CD32. :)
Funny thing is, the first time I ever played this game was on a nokia 6600.
Yes, there is a java version made by glu.
I tried to get that but couldn't find it :(
@@RetroCore There are many java games in the internet that you can play on a mobile emulator but it's fine I guess
Quick facts about the mobile version:
- All mercenaries available
- Only 3 worlds. The workshop not included
- Has different music
- Less type of enemies
- The framerate is atrocious but fine I guess
Overall I'd still pick the MD version or CD32. Great video though!
The thing with playing DOS games on modern PCs is that DOS generally used a 70Hz refresh rate (although this could be adjusted by the programmer,) while modern displays are 60Hz. That means that there's no clean way to emulate smooth-scrolling DOS games without screen tearing.
That's a bummer although the PC can run at 120 Htz. Sadly my capture card can't.
I was always amazed at what Bitmap Brothers managed to pull off on the Amiga. I've always owned the Snes version of this game but also played the Megadrive version quite a bit as well as having a brief stint with the CD32. The game comes through great on Snes and while the Megadrive version is also pretty good it's a mystery to me why that version manages to have slowdown the way it does.
Slowdown is for sure down to bad programming.
Great memories. Finally the amiga owners get one over the snes/mega drive owners.
It doesn't happen often but it is nice when it does.
@@RetroCore you should make a Worms comparison. I was surprised how bad looks the SNES and MD version VS the Amiga one (and let alone the AGA one which is splendid).
Good video, but I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of the Mega Drive version. I grew up with both it and the Atari ST versions and while I agree the ST's port is very limited at best, the Mega Drive gameplay is smooth enough, the soundtrack is pumping FM dance that rivals the Amiga and overall provides a more than great blasting experience. I'm sure the SNES music hardware helps it sound closer to the Amiga as well.
I just think the MD port could have been much better than if is. It has weaknesses such as the frame rate which should not be an issue on the MD
@@RetroCore md version is my favourite efter the amiga one
I actually like the game quite a bit too. I never beat it, but played it, and the sequel quite a bit. I think if it was made as a twin-stick game, it would be a lot more fun. (not that those were common outside the arcade and maybe SNES back then. I'd play a modern one that had twin-stick controls though. ;)
I honestly never heard of this game back in the day, but this is the most 90s soundtrack ever. It feels like Angelina Jolie will jump into the screen and hack her way to victory at any moment. Cheers from México.
Glad you liked it. In the US the game is called Soldiers of Fortune.
Kudos to who ever did the title screen music for the mega drive though.
Do you have an Amiga CD32? Expensive to acquire one nowadays.
Good Old Games has an enhanced re-release of The Chaos Engine available. :)
Yep, that's right.
And then there's the modern computer port (Windows 7 - 10, MacOS and Linux) by Abstract Games and published by Rebellion (Now they owned all of the Bitmap Brothers IP) which is essentially the Amiga version with blooming, scale filters and using a modern gamepad to play.
Apart from the game being very faithful to the Amiga version (with the graphics coming from the Amiga 1200 and CD32) the Blooming effects makes the game look a bit awful, luckily you can disable it when you start the game (same goes for the scale filters if you are concerned about pixel purity) & the gameplay runs a bit sluggish to me with the frame rate dropping out every now and then, even though I have CPU and a graphics card that is more than the mininum requirement.
Did you run the MD version on an emulator? Asking because I do, and it's hella choppy, unlike your footage
I was using a Mega SG, analogue's Mega Drive FPGA system.
@@RetroCore Hmm, I see, thanks for the reply!
The console versions of The Chaos Engine are European versions (PAL) that run at 50 fps. The North American versions called Soliders Of Fortune do run in 60 fps because of NTSC. Personally I like the PAL versions since feel closer to the Amiga originals....the NTSC ports run too damn fast!
The console versions are running on Japanese systems so they are running in 60htz. Console games run at the speed determined by the hardware, not the software unless a game has been PAL optimised. In that case they'd run too fast on a Japanese or US system.
I remember playing soldier of fortune and is hard. This one looks easier.
😏Yess your battle of the ports is on 🎮🕹🎮
Unfortunately most/all Bitmap Brothers games ran at half frame rate even on consoles - same thing happens with Magic Pockets, GODS, Xenon 2, Speedball. Great game tho, I had it on PC and used to play it both single player and co-op with a schoolfriend a lot. Had a very finely tuned currency + upgrade system if memory serves.
Thank you for the comparisons! I was curious about the games recently and which is the best of the bunch.
Sadly though, your commentary about "Should run at 60 frames on console" is few and far between, the industry standard then and even now is 30FPS, with well tuned and optimized games hitting 60.
Hell< I don't even remember 60FPS being touted as a thing until PS1 days with Tobal No1
On the older consoles only the games doing fancy graphical stuff didn't run at 60fps for the most part, like games doing polygons or background scaling, but for regular 2D games they 95% of the time ran at 60fps on Nintendo consoles, the PC Engine and every Sega Console aside for the 32X. Other systems like the Jaguar, 3DO or most computers did struggle with 2D games though.
Even now most 2D games like indies run at 60fps unless it's a bad Switch port or something like that.
Welp, looks like Mark got me again with another title I'm not familiar with. But leave it to Mark to educated me on game that I'm uncertain of knowing for sure. Well done bro. 8^)
Anthony..
If you don't know it, you are missing out an absolute classic. Do yourself a favor and try it. You'll be happy that you did.
I remember this bein a big thing during the 'gamesmaster era'
What era?
He is referring to a British gaming TV show of the 90s called Games Master.
@@adamhenry6793 Before E-Sports came along, there was a TV show in the UK called GamesMaster which aired from 1992 up to 1998.
@@MarcSola7 bingo. I once appeared in the 'crowd' on said show series 2 with dominik diamond. Not how you imagine such things filmed as it was extremely tedious and lots of waiting around.
I can imagine that. I was part of the studio audience for the BBCs On the Waterfront
Oh this game ! Yet another Amiga gem !
The option to hire different members and upgrades kind of resembles me the strategic game released in 1994 for PC, Jagged Alliance. Another good game, but sadly nothing for the BotP show
Anyways Im waiting some day for the DejaVu point and click game. To be fair you could probably do a long episode and include the first and second game at once
I've never heard of that game.
@@RetroCore it was a PC release, turn based strategy where you controlled your mercenaries. Jagged Alliance 2 from 1999 was imo a better game.
It wasnt widely popular, as well as many of the PC games being exclusive to the computers in the 90s. It was also the time I had much more in common with the computers than consoles. It all changed later in the late 90s with Saturn and PS, and it was a big turn in my gaming experience
Damn, they really should've released The Chaos Engine on 32X and Jaguar. I think they would've been better than the Amiga version
juegazo!
amazing video.
This was a good game at the time. Usally played as Thug for that nice shotgun. I think the high color versions looks nice but doesnt fit the dark steampunk style as well?
One of my favourite Amiga games, had it on the A1200 so the AGA version. Are you running SNES in 4:3 or 8:7 aspect ration?
Snes is running on a Japanese SFC in 4:3 ratio. That's how it actually looks.
@@RetroCore Only asked as some games are suppose to be in 8:7, there is a whole thing about 4:3 vs 8:7
This game would really shine with an Ikari Warriors/Heavy Barrel-style rotational joystick for better aiming. Or maybe a twin stick control scheme. None of which were options when it came out, sadly.
I had a one-level demo of this game from an Amiga magazine coverdisk, and I really wanted to like the game, but it was just so easy to get killed I could never even finish the demo level. I had hoped the US Genesis port (stupidly retitled Soldiers of Fortune) might have a better gameplay experience, but it wasn't at all. I even bought an emulated port to the Blackberry Playbook tablet years ago, not realizing that if I struggled to dodge enemy fire with a joystick I would find it far more difficult with a touchscreen. Sigh.
I was always puzzled by the US name change of this game. I guess they thought it wasn't going to appeal with a name that didn't scream "combat".
@@RetroCore It makes me wonder if somebody else had copyrighted the name Chaos Engine in the US. Just like Star Fox had to be Star Wing in the UK and then getting changed again into Lylat Wars on the N64, or the Dreamcast's orange spiral logo getting changed blue for Europe due to a Polish company's logo being similar, there's the possibility that "Chaos Engine" had been previously claimed in the US. Otherwise, there was no good reason to change the title to something as incredibly bland and generic as "Soliders of Fortune". The Chaos Engine name stands out and is evocative of the steampunk style of game it is, the US name is completely forgettable... maybe that's why Soldiers of Fortune is pretty much forgotten over here.
The SNES handled arcade twin-stick shooters like Smash TV and Total Carnage pretty well using the four face buttons as sort of a second d-pad. I would have liked to have seen a similar control scheme on the SNES version, but I doubt that was every a consideration.
cd32 is AGA
Being a Bitmap Brothers fan, not being able to play this game back on the day was kind of a pending subject. I must say thay now that I can play it in real hardware, both on the MD and the SNES, it doesn't dissapoint (if you're not familiar already with the original Amiga version, that is): it's funny and deliciously steampunk.
Mike Montgomery had said they'd have loved to release a Bitmap Brothers Retro Compiliation on PS2, Xbox etc but they could'nt find a publisher willing to handle it 😭
I'm sure many gamers would be upset to hear that news.
Not a fan of the amiga but this is one game i enjoyed playing back in the day.
Mark, the ST fanboy, leaves out the STE version? Hell has frozen over!
oh so there's a STe version? I gonna check that right now...
... disappointed I am. still no in-game music, no speech... the STe is such an underexploited hardware :(
@@ryzmaker11 I don't think it uses the blitter, either. The color palette is better than the regular ST version, but it's still not as good as the OCS version, imo. Especially when you factor in audio.
St fanboy? Both the Amiga and ST suck balls in my opinion 😋
@@RetroCore You're obviously a console fanboy. Definitely an Xbox fanboy.
Played the Demo of this once. The American MS-DOS port has a different name that escapes me.
It's called Soldiers of Fortune.
@@RetroCore Yup that was it!
They wanted to avoid legal troubles in America with the publishers of the book "The Difference Engine" whom plot inspired the game.
Been told the Atari STE version only requires 512K, where as the STFM version requires 1 Meg of Ram.
Bitmaps also had issues with STE soundchip???
i loved Bitmap Brothers games back in the day.. you should do a BoTP on Gods, there was some odd shenanigans going on with those console ports!
Gods is on my to do list. I've played the DOS and MD versions myself.
@@RetroCore MD version runs faster, 64 colours, looses the Into The Wonderful music do to cartridge limitations I seem to remember
So which version is the best, to me it looks like the CD32 wins.
Probably is.
I think there was an Archimedes port as well.
As mentioned during the videos intro.
the ST version seems to run at a worse frame rate than the mega drive version?
Most likely.
Of course it's not the greatest game in the world, because that's Elite, but it comes close. Outstanding overhead run-and-game by the Bitmap Brothers. Imho their by far best (although some may prefer Speedball 2). Excellent choice. Unfortunately they totally botched the sequel.
Its a 1MB Amiga game and cannot been played on the base Amiga 500 without the memory expansion that was required for this game. That shows the graphics and the quite clean samples that was used for this game, and its was used very well.
That is more that was possible on the console really when talking about sound. Im meant you cant simple not fit a 200kb ingame tune(s) (300kb on the title tune) to the SNES without comprimse at all! This part was some one other also wrote about it.
Everyone I knew with an Amiga had the extra memory. Guess I was lucky to known those people.
@@RetroCore Well very few didn't get the ram upgrade who where playing games. More amd more games where 1 meg by the time choas engine came out.
yes, ineeded. im diddent to have that ram to start with, but got it later when its began to been required.
I read somewhere that the Amiga 32 version had strafe movement, is this true? I love top down run-and-gun games like "true lies" on snes, and if chaos engine had a strafe mode it might seriously improve the experience...
I dig the roughness of the mega drive music, especially stage one
The announcer sounds like he's been smoking far too many cigs though
@@scootakuh3142 Funny you should say that, since I prefer MD announcer voice for it's mechanical roughness (but yes, it's the first and until this video the only version I've been exposed to, so bias)
Interesting. I never heard of this game. Might have to check it out sometime. Seems like a more involved Smash TV which is a game I love. Actually it also reminds me of the new Xeno Crisis game also for the Mega Drive and PS4.
It hasn't much to do with Smash TV, more a Commando/Mercs type of run & gun with RPG elements. Xeno Crisis is indeed influenced by the Bitmap Brothers "chrome" graphics.
Although I love Robotron and thus also Smash TV, Chaos Engine is a far more balanced and refined game. Robotron is action pure, while in Chaos Engine you have to think (although this might not come across, when just viewing this video and having never played it), where you are going, wihout turning it into a puzzler. At the same time, your shooting directions have (intentionally) been limited, so that you also need to think how to move to kill the beasts, without getting hit. In addition you need to remember pretty much all of every level (as in a shoot em up) to not run into those myriads of traps killing you. Further it adds RPG elements of selectively upgrading your character (and co-op partner). And it does it in a completely balanced way, integrating these things in a way that feels completely natural. It's an outstanding game and definitely in the Top 10 or 5 of all Amiga games.
@@frankschneider6156 Oh yeah,you are totally right. It looks really fun.I just instantly think of Smash TV when I see a game like this. Robotron also,both games made by Eugene Jarvis,an awesome early game designer. Technically you are right in that it's more like Commando or Mercs. I suppose you could go back to Tato's Front Line which might be the first game of that kind. Like I said I'll have to try the Mega Drive version out since I don't have an Amiga handy.
It is indeed a thinking game. There many hidden areas also ad a twist to it.
@@RetroCore Sounds like fun. You always do some interesting games Mark. Even when they aren't good. Lol. I think you did Smash TV already right? I remember the Super NES one being really good,had some hidden stuff in that game too.
You missed the achimedes version!!!!!!!!!!! Great video though!
I know. It says so at the begining of the video.
The ST version sounds like an 8 bit game with 16 bit graphics
PSSSST.... the genesis had an 8bit sound chip Einstein.... its amazing just how little most people know about retro systems LMAO
What has the Mega Drive version got to do with the ST version?
Darren Davenport Like you.
More care was def put into the SNES version, but I'd say both the MD and SNES versions are equal. I like the music in both equally, but both have their different pros.
SNES has an intro
MD has a better resolution
SNES has better use of color (as expected)
MD has less slowdown than SNES (also expected)
Still, the Amiga original is no slouch here either. It might be one of the only times the console versions DON'T slaughter the Amiga version easily.
Actually, there are a number of occasions when the Amiga version outperforms console counterparts such as Battle Squadron, Speedball 2, the Lotus games, Robocod, Desert Strike, Pinball Dreams et al.
Also, the SNES version has more than double the amount of inherent input lag (lag embedded into the code, nothing to do with screens or controllers or emulation) than the Mega Drive version. 5-6 frames vs 2-3.
To be fair the Amiga 500 when REALLY pushed could put up a decent fight against the MD & SNES. It just almost never happened.
Amerigo Costa Good observation. How did you count the exact input lag frames, out of curiosity?
@@solarflare9078 I usually test for this using the frame advance feature in Retroarch. See the paragraph "How to check the amount of lag frames a game has" in this page www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-1-7-2-released/
The game's Victorian England theme is inspired for sure and the soundtrack is genuinely great but the Commando-style controls aged terribly. If this would have had the ability to lock your aim (by holding down the fire button) or better yet, twinstick controls - and adjusted monster count to balance the difficulty - it would have been a timeless classic.
It IS a timeless classic
To be fair, this was an Amiga game so that had a lot going against it when twin stick controls come in to play.
The MS-DOS port might not tear when running on real hardware (70hz timing). But the game is really annoying to get running on hardware, its SB routine doesn't like clone cards and is CPU speed sensitive.
Technically this is real hardware, PC is a PC 😋. But yeah, I know what you mean. Sadly I don't have a Retro PC unless I count the Fujitsu FM Towns 2 which is 486 based.
It's clear that the Bros didn't give a hoot about any other system than the Amiga, at this point. These are some of the most lackluster ports around.
Most other versions aren't done by the Bitmap Bros.
One of the best Bitmap titles, which however were largely overrated. Too bad for the bad console conversions, it's a perfect genre for MD and SNES.
Happy xmas bud.
Thanks, John. Merry Christmas to you too.
Not sure why you liking this game would be a surprise. It's a damned good game in the vein of Total Carnage or Smash TV, but most importantly, it was made for the Amiga, instead of being a godawful arcade conversion.
Aka it wasn’t touched by US Gold lol.
@@alritedave Yeah, lol.
Because there are mny idiots on the net who think I bash Amiga games just because they are Amiga games. The real reason why I bash them is because they're crap 😋
@@RetroCore Heh. The best response to idiots/fanboys is silence, friend. Humor IS a close second, though. 🤣
No animated intro on vanilla Amiga version, as it would of required too many disks
The intro was all in RAM, so at most, it would have been 2 disks extra :)
Acorn version is just like A500 one, and A1200AGA is just like CD32 but less colours
Speedball 2 is probably my favorite Bitmap Brothers game, but, then again, the Soldiers of Furtune/Chaos Engine port on the Genesis is the only other game I've played for any extended period of time from the company. It was one of the games my cousin and I rented a few weekends but never owned. I remember liking the visual style and music, but, to be honest, don't remember much about the game itself. However, it's nice to see these types of games on BotP.
...But the big question is: what absolutely horrendous game must you subject yourself to celebrate the 15th anniversary of Shite of the Month! I'm not sure of the date, but it was part way through that first volume of Retro Core. So, I'm pretty sure it's sometime next year. Will Mark subject himself to playing every game from Acclaim? Ocean? Maybe he'll melt his eyes and destroy his hearing playing awful unlicensed games with turd-smear graphics and music that would kill the dead. Maybe he'll play so much Mortal Kombat on the GameBoy that he'll be driven insane. No, I know: a retrospective on Gray Matter inc! O_O haha
Yeah, Speedball 2 is probably most people's favourite Bitmap Brothers game, myself included. I can't really think of any other game of theirs that doesn't have any real flaws in it.
Oh no, no more torture. Playing these Amiga games has been enough over the years 😋. Just glad this was a good game.
@@RetroCore Yeah, maybe we declare 2020 to be the "Year of the Shite-free Games". Sadly, if you have enough western computer ports for BotP, I don't think you'll be able to avoid them completely. haha. I tried to get the worst of my crap game playing done yesterday by playing Carmagedon 64 on the N64. I finally got around to re-soldering the power connector on my N64's motherboard after I lent the system to a local library for an event they were having, and they let some random homeless guys damage it (I'm not evven joking a bit...). Anyways, Carmageddon 64 was one of the games I grabbed off the shelf to test with...like an idiot.
So, happy holidays, and I hope you play some good games...at least better than I chose to play over the weekend!
I’ve been revisiting some bit brothers games recently, Xenon 2, Gods, Speedball 2 and this. And I’ll be honest I love the graphics and unique look and ideas. But they aren’t very fun to play :( even this. I didn’t get far with it.
Apart from Speedball2, which is addictive as all heck I agree.
Never thought much of most of their games.
Best thing they ever did was Ruff 'n Tumble, under the Renegade label.
@@beezle1976 Speedball 2 and The Chaos Engine are their only really good games. Everything else is just overrated garbage.
Not often the Amiga wins lmao.
Yeah, it's quite rare. This might be the only time.
That Atari ST version though!!
The music is a huge part of the game. No music is boring
Megadrive music of this game rocks!!
Why would it come as a surprise the fact you enjoy this game? :)
It is actually very good, and this is coming from someone who always bashes Bitmap Brothers games for being overrated good looking pieces of crap :D
I am very pissed at this game though as I could never beat level 4-4, which is the last level. I've reached it a fair amount of times but I always die there. hehe.
I've played it recently again and hit the same wall, ugh. But the game aged incredibly well, it's really very well made and fun to play.
The music was made by the late Richard Joseph and it's awesome, one of his finest works (and he was absurdly talented), I remember reading an interview with him saying this was the game the devs gave him more memory to work with, something around 200kb of memory is used exclusively for sound (which is a *lot* for the time and a lot more than the 64kb the SNES allows, maybe that's why the game doesn't sound as clear on the SNES) Also the way the music changes as you get closer to the end of the level is pretty cool.
And I really prefer the original ECS Amiga graphics over the upgraded versions. I really think the more "colorful" graphics make the game looks less steampunk and more cartoonish, but in a bad way. IMO Amiga ECS version is the version to play of the game, having also played the MS-DOS, SNES and Mega-Drive versions. (the later one really kills the lovely soundtrack)
It was also good to see the Brothers finally using the Amiga properly instead of doing their usual ST ports. That's probably why this is their finest game ever :)
People seem to think I bash all Amiga games but that's not true. It just so happens that most I cover are awful 😋.
I was also reading an interview with Joseph which mentions he had to use some speacil coding techniques to get the speech on to the SNES version while keeping a rather high quality of audio.
@@RetroCore Me being an Amiga fanboy, I even think sometimes you go easy on some of its really horrible arcade ports :D
I love the Amiga, but you can't run from the fact that lots of its arcade ports are really awful.
@@RetroCore Amiga was NEVER a bad system. It had a lot under the hood for the mid 80s and early 90s. It's just that most european software houses didn't give a shit about quality, especially those arcade conversions! You give the system to someone who cared, like the Bitmap Brothers or Factor 5, whose ports of R-Type and BC Kid (Bonk's Adventure) are majestic, and you can see what the system could have been had there been more dev houses who were looking to do more than rip people off.
Much like Cannon Fodder and Sensible Soccer, the Amiga version is the best. Truth be told, I never liked Chaos Engine - I never cared for these kinds of top-down run'n'gunners like this and Alien Breed that were so popular on the Amiga - but that intro tune never gets out of my head.
Ah, now there are two games I really don't like, Cannon Fodder and Sensible Soccer.
Cannon Fodder is best to been played on a computer as well, yes, so clearly a win on Amiga/PC. A Joypad can newer simulate a mouse at all and is required to play this game in the designed way. No less and no more! Also surpricly no other ports could even replicate the Amiga open tune correctly as well.
yes❗💪
The best Chaos Engine is Alien Bash II.
A ripoff that plays at 50fps on the Amiga.
Alien Breed I think you mean😋
Don't you just hate auto correct on phones.
@@RetroCore Nop, www.lemonamiga.com/games/details.php?id=2499
Amiga have a lots of PD games like this one. Im diddent hear of that one too. But its look like a nice ripoff, even its dont sound good or have ai and is a more simpler game. but those kind of games can still been fun.
Coming soon to the Jaguar with new music:
ruclips.net/video/CkeMyLUF_9I/видео.html
CD32 version is much better then the reset
I only knew of the game by name, never played it.
pc dos game comes on cd, sound blaster supports 16 bit audio with more than 4 channels... Game music is midi....
Those old SoundBlaster cards only supported one stereo channels, like Gameboy Advance. So its was up to mix them using software, which was quite cpu senative those days. But they could have least have used cd audio, which did used zero cpu task at all. Today we still use software mixer those days today, but its very very trivial.
@@spacefractal ahh. I always though it was 8 channels or something. Would have been so good if we could have had a 8 chanell 16 bit thing for cd games back in the day. I hate pc midi from the 90s and get so pissed off when people hold up Dooms music as good game music... Mate it's shit midi versions of metal fuck off... The playstation doom soundtrack is so much better.
@@infesticon Gravis has hardware mixing about 32 channels and did contain memory for instruments. For Sound Blaster did just contains one PCM, rest was midi based and instruments cant often been changed.
Some SoundBlaster cards did do have memory throught, like the AWE32.
Im did do liked the Doom music back in the days, suited well, if you have right card. Also you should checkout the 3D0 verion. Its mightbeen a bad port, but its have excellent remixed music. Also im liked when dos games used mod music rather than midi music. mod music is often that way you did on Amiga, while on PC was of course software based.