Record them? Present them as proof? To whom, pray tell? Holy Shmoly! How completely rude is that? That's one thing I don't think I'd stand for. At the very least, I wouldn't speak to them or live in the same room with them again until they stopped.
Think of it like you're talking to a cop. Anything you say can and will be used against you...plus it could be twisted and embellished at their will, just to make you look worse...and all done without you knowing. The "induced conversation" is like a reporter asking very specific questions so they could swing a story with their biases intact. It's not always a person you live with. It could be someone you think is your closest friend who's been going behind your back for years.
Neighbour ORDERS me to talk to her. If I did so, and said anything, no matter how innocuous I would receive an email accusing me of harassment and threats of calling the police! NOT exaggerating. NOT taking the bait.
I have not had a meaningful conversation with one of my brothers in years. One of my neighbors hit my car and I was sharing the story with my brother while he was visiting. Showing photos with the bumper off. My dad could not handle the fact the conversation had nothing to do with him. He literally told me he is sick of hearing the story and I need to move on lol. Yet, he constantly repeats himself to the point where I have to physically leave the room to get him to stop. Great video!
Yep/ they never really “listen” My experience is they are always distracted by their own agenda while i talk, then expect complete attention for their superficial bs or victimhood! FAKE if they give you attention. It’s for you their own gain .
I feel that one. I live with a narc that just rambles and rambles without any point or stop to it and then has the audacity to yell at me when I say anything. Literally told me “I don’t care what you have to say you have no right to speak around me”
And it’s always so contrived , calculated, and rehearsed, that’s what my ex husband did. Set me up, all the time. So i learned to grey rock before i even knew what that was, as self preservation! Never react , that’s all they desire - our reaction. Make them scramble by not complying
I am sick of this tactic. My CN also uses this to attempt to gaslight me as well. I have learned that silence is golden and unpredictability(playing dumb when I see it coming) within the conversation itself confuses them into a retreat from continuing on. I learned that sometimes you have to play the part of a fool to fool the fool who's attempting to fool you. Gray rock has helped me tons
Conversations are also geared toward eroding someone else's (commonly the people they claim to love) belief in their own individualism, authenticity, unrestricted self-identity, autonomy and intuition. Best, ~L.
Once you see a repeat pattern of these tactics in someone, you’ll see it coming. Don’t get in the boxing ring! Also don’t get fooled about what is being said. Focus instead on the why or desired (hidden) reason for it. Also I find that playing dumb works well.
@@Lyrielonwind , I love listening to interviews with Princess Anne for this reason. She's mastered the art of putting off intrusive and annoying people. Earlier in her life, she'd just say emphatically, "bugger off!" But now, she's gotten her responses down to an art form, in my opinion. Nothing seems to ruffle her feathers.
3:00 also they will mention something "Did you hear about..." to elicit some sort of response out of you. Maybe not for the immediate moment, maybe something for later. Like they will say it, not listen to your answer, and hope the seed they planted will get you to act a certain way later. For example they could say Did you hear about xyz and then maybe it was completely made up but they are hoping you say it to someone else to make you look stupid or to get you starting rumors. They rarely use speech for communication with you, it is usually about abusing you in some way, controlling you in some way because they hate your independence.
Yep, then they accuse you of manipulating or trying to conveniently “forget “ things, cuz they NEED and CRAVE our attention , information, want to know our vulnerabilities
Excellent topic!! I have been involved with some of these tactics. I look back at it now (as this was years ago) and I am so glad I’m no contact (3 yrs this Oct). I’m so happy you uploaded this video about it. Very manipulative behavior. Thanks again.
Darren, you hit several nails directly on their heads... One person I thought was a closer friend in my career was the very person I should've run from. After my therapy began, I recognized how this person was twisting my joking reactions to serious statements, bringing names in that I'd had bad experiences with (just to go directly tell them), among many other similar stupidities; all intended to bury me and they could still keep smiling in my face while doing it. Now that I recognize what I'd heard for years, it stands out like a zit on a pale redhead, and puts me on high alert to watch for red flags from that individual
Yep! They try to make you talk bad about people. Then dig for more info to use later, to seem in the know to others. Triangulate. That’s their middle name and go to tactic . Then we feel so dumb for letting our guard down . Stay strong ! Their envy and shame is their driver of despicable behavior.
Most lawyers engage in these tactics. The court system is kept going by these tactics either by perpetrators or attorneys . It's a business to the lucrative court system, trying to milk & drag as much money as possible out of you for years if possible.
An interesting topic would be why you have to induce conversations with narcs when you have to coparent/relate with them. Because you can't just outright ask for your needs or something you need. You have to basically trick the narc into believing said thing might be beneficial to them somehow. Otherwise, you get stuck. So you have to speak to them like you would any adult toddler... This is a real thing. 🎉
@@rubberbiscuit99 Yep, or 6ou almost get them to cooperate and then they realise they are cooperating then they ruin it. Like trying to heard cattle through a gate. Come on! You can act like a decent person! Come on! Nope!
It's always an important topic and good discussion on this channel, none more so than this, in my view. My experience of induced conversation amounts to conclusions decided in advance to berate, belittle and condemn the target no matter what, with the conversation itself being about hooking the target into trying to explain and defend themselves, to implement the belief that the narcissistic abuser is in charge and that the target has to have their agreement and approval. Justified self-defence against people like this is thus just a snare for reinforcing their false vision of themselves as a glorious supreme authority to be admired, worshipped and deferred to.
Yep! They try to make you talk bad about people. Then dig for more info to use later, to seem in the know to others. Triangulate. That’s their middle name and go to tactic . Then we feel so dumb for letting our guard down . Stay strong ! Their envy and shame is their driver of despicable behavior.
I had a narcissist boss who actually tried to get everyone on the team to reveal their traumatic life experiences as well as the things that mean the most to them as part of “team building”. Ofc when it was his turn he shared nothing 😂. I really hated that guy.
I'm super guilty of asking about a topic and then dumping everything I know about it. I do it to gain perspective, but if they don't know anything about the topic I feel it's a great chance to inform them. I used to think its because I love learning and sharing knowledge. Guess that makes me a shitty person instead. 🤷🏼♂️ I'll work on trying to remain silent until spoken to.
It's about the intention behind doing it imo. Sounds to me like you're doing it because you're genuinely passionate about certain topics and want to share what you know about it. That's different than doing it to stroke your ego or make other people feel inferior. Trust me, I'm neurodivergent and like to infodump about stuff I'm interested in too. There's a difference in how it feels to talk to someone who is sincerely infodumping vs. narcissistic monologuing. In my experience, narcissistic types usually try too hard to sound like they know what they're talking about, when they actually know very little. So don't take this too hard ✌🏻
I can dump everything I know of a topic I like because I get carried away and excited and maybe people are not interested but I don't do it to manipulate or control anyone. I know narcissists who ask you whatever question to turn around and leave you talking by yourself...That's mean induced conversation.
I've been a tad neurodivergent all my life and naive most of it. So my older sister would drag me into a negative comment to support her ego. Like if a friend was mean to her , I felt bad and would put the friend down feeling bad for my sister. Then later she would use that to alienate "friend" against me. That's at 3 years so imagine me untangling this shit.😅
First I’ve heard someone speak about this topic which I’ve experienced by two different narcissists. I knew immediately the question was being presented in a such a strange manor, but having no knowledge of narcissism at the time. The question was to gather information from me to be used against me. You will definitely feel something is very off about the approach they use to asking the question. It will leave you feeling distrustful of the person.
They can problematize literally anything, no matter how benign, in order to turn the conversation to whatever thing they want. Or, sometimes they'll start an agreement. An agreement is like an argument, except you actually agree on the initial proposition, but the person who wants an argument insists that you disagree. In doing so, they actually have started an argument, so you have to be savvy enough to start agreeing with them that you're actually arguing with them, but then while doing so change your position so they have to argue against their original point. Or just walk away, but that isn't always an option.
Mine fell under the header of control. That, after the lockdown began, my neighbor wanted us to sit outside, everyday after work, to chat. She’d been living there for about 3 years. But, we’d never said more than hi. But, what I believe she was trying to do was to ensure I became used to my time being blocked out for her, because she’d decided I’d be her free caregiver. I cut the conversations short, telling her that both of us could get back to what we were doing, but I could tell that frustrated her. It was a loss of control she was trying to gain and it was me knowing I had an option and wasn’t too nice to take it. How did I really know she didn’t like it? Because further manipulations and smear campaigning came afterwards. It felt like, “I don’t know who you think you are, living in my attic (apartment above me), thinking you can go to work, come home, do as you please not come down here, cook and clean and take care of me and my newly-adopted dog, and not buy a newer car to take me around. When I moved in, just my presence should’ve put you on notice, that you were going to be like a cat on a hot tin roof, so I could relax and watch TV all day! The NERVE, after I’ve gone through the trouble to retire early, with no medical or financial plans! Here I am, a whopping 6 years older, with my husband in prison on a double murder and this useless child thinks she can get away with just paying the rent!”
@@harrietleah212 and that’s was the second neighbor out of, basically, three. The first, was an old lady, who lived alone. She and her 3 adult children wanted me to “spend time” with her. Could even bring my cat with me. They didn’t outright ask that I be her caregiver. My guess is that people often don’t, reasons being they want it to “seem” like you volunteered, they don’t intend to pay you for this obligation, and they may be trying to dodge labor laws. You know, treat you like an immigrant, who’d better comply, lest you be deported, only, I’m a black woman, who’s a US citizen, who happens to be a neighbor. Not a maid, paying rent, to living in your attic, so I can run a free nursing home. But, narcissism and racism are close cousins. And her husband was black, but through conversation, it became clear to me that not everyone marries for love. Some people also just feel they don’t need to ask, what YOU should’ve assumed, which is that you’re beneath them. Just invite you over for a “friendly visit”, start showing you around and assigning duties. I also gather this neighbor and her adult children felt I’d feel more “comfortable” with this type of work, than working for the two well-known corporations I was working for, at the time, working 100 hours/week, commuting 4 hours/day. It’s sad, because I’ve watched a few people die with these presumptions. That included my mother (with both of my parents being black educators, BTW), with her growing narcissistic behavior. These types feel you HAVE to stay and suffer, under their iron fist, without realizing that all you have to do is walk away. Current downstairs neighbor? Hadn’t been living their 6 months, before she “decided” I was going to be her child’s nanny, if I was going to sit outside and enjoy the weather after work. So, sitting outside now happens at about 10PM. I’m polite. Not stupid.
My sister-in-law has never been in a successful relationship or married. She is very negative even at age 75. Recently she fell on a train and broke her hip. While in the hospital, 3 of her siblings did not visit her. My 27 yr old son was the only one and she manipulated him by calling and asking him to buy her food and visit. As a sister-in-law who lives 10 hrs away, I asked my son if he would do it. He graciously did, but works full time as well. So recently she sent me gifts, this tactic is so that I could call her to thank her. She criticized my son at least 3 times, then started on me. I soon said I had to go..even ended with…love you. I just knew these gifts had strings so I sent them back. She left a message saying I was nasty and if I didn’t call her back that is very spiteful. I cannot take the bait (her control)…but proud that my son and his girlfriend were the only ones that visited her. Now I’m done.
We are the tent pegs to hold up "the straw man",only engage where the result is fruit,which will feed everyone around you,joy,encourgement,sharing,!Move on when you see no fruit !They'll be looking to steal yours and call it they're own.
Thank you so much for broaching this helpful topic, Darren. You have so much experience and unpack your knowledge so well for us! I have to admit that I found myself in here a little bit, when you were talking about conversational narcissism, specifically leading the conversation. (I think in legal terms, since I'm a part-time legal documents proofreader.) I'm a 'retired' nutritional counselor and homeopath, so I do sometimes 'jump in' to assist others in finding better products at my local nutritional supplements store. Since I've lived in this community for 24 years, many people ask my advice, so many of my conversations include instruction to others. Pondering my conversations with friends and neighbors, I believe those conversations are mostly back and forth and give and take, but I certainly might offer advice. I have the idea that if a person I know well is mentioning some type of health problem to me, that they expect a reply. But I usually ask if they'd like to hear what I'd recommend, if they'd like to discuss it with me for a few minutes. Of course, as a mom and grandmother, I'm in the same boat... Even so, this topic made me feel a bit🌶 uneasy. It's difficult to assess myself here, but I did take a stab🔪 at it. I'm not sure I'd want to hear what my grown children would have to say, since I had to be both the mom AND the dad when they were growing up!😮LOL Possibly🤔 I'm okay-- I certainly hope so! Now that it's in the forefront of my mind, hopefully I will do a better job...😅
I have a question. I hear a lot of people saying narcissists always turn a conversation to be about them. What's the difference between someone turning the conversation to be about them vs someone talking about a similar experience/situation to relate to the current conversation?
You described my interactions with my grown adult daughter to a t. Taking notes so i can recognize the pattern. I never trust her and she has burned me many times , exposing my secrets and making it seem like it’s my problem if i wanted to keep something discrete. I’d love to go no contact but can’t due to my sense of obligation and guilt, which she manipulates. What to do? Boundaries, i know. Basically i try to dodge every question she asks in a probing manner, and tell my loved ones to do the same.
What type of narcissist is your daughter? Mine is a covert; age 32. She discarded me 4 months ago. At first, it was devastating, but now the trauma bond is broken and I feel completely different. I actually blocked her from texting me because I seriously never want to see her again. She’s evil and I have no need for someone like her in my life. I hope you will not feel guilty about your daughter. I hope soon you will feel nothing for her at all because she will harm you at every opportunity.
So, so true. And I would add to that. You felt like you had to rush and get your little bit of information out before the walls started closing in. I could almost time the phone calls from the first word until the cut off by him, “well I’m glad you called” or “good to hear from you”, or “thank’s for thinking about me”. Estimated time of allowance was around 3-4-5 minutes.
once i mentioned about Warren Buffett's US$32billion donation and suddenly my narc elder brother went into rage 'haha, i donated more ! i had donated $50 two years ago, just imagine hungry people that used my donation to buy food 2 years ago, if they wait for Warren's donation, they will be dead' 😅😅😅
Do you have videos or advice on how to interact with the narcissist? In my case it is my mother who soon might need assisted living and help navigating that process. Also, do narcissists know that they are narcissists?
Going to guess before I watch. 1) To assess your mental state for manipulation purposes later, 2) To garner information on other people or situations thru you, 3) To get an agreement commitment from you prematurely which they will enforce relentlesslly, and 4) To begin the mental punishment process that will never relent unless you surrender everything. Alright, let's see how well I guessed...
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
True. Those conversations feel so painfully fake.
1) to win… 2) To win! 3) To Win! 4) TO WIN!
Win and destroy
Started noticing the conversations were about getting either validation or sympathy so i stopped doing both.
Omg thx for sharing! Exactly 💯 percent 😂
They love your negative reactions.
They record them and present them as proof that you are crazy
Record them? Present them as proof? To whom, pray tell? Holy Shmoly! How completely rude is that? That's one thing I don't think I'd stand for. At the very least, I wouldn't speak to them or live in the same room with them again until they stopped.
Think of it like you're talking to a cop. Anything you say can and will be used against you...plus it could be twisted and embellished at their will, just to make you look worse...and all done without you knowing. The "induced conversation" is like a reporter asking very specific questions so they could swing a story with their biases intact.
It's not always a person you live with. It could be someone you think is your closest friend who's been going behind your back for years.
Neighbour ORDERS me to talk to her. If I did so, and said anything, no matter how innocuous I would receive an email accusing me of harassment and threats of calling the police! NOT exaggerating. NOT taking the bait.
I have not had a meaningful conversation with one of my brothers in years. One of my neighbors hit my car and I was sharing the story with my brother while he was visiting. Showing photos with the bumper off. My dad could not handle the fact the conversation had nothing to do with him. He literally told me he is sick of hearing the story and I need to move on lol. Yet, he constantly repeats himself to the point where I have to physically leave the room to get him to stop. Great video!
Yep/ they never really “listen”
My experience is they are always distracted by their own agenda while i talk, then expect complete attention for their superficial bs or victimhood! FAKE if they give you attention. It’s for you their own gain .
I feel that one. I live with a narc that just rambles and rambles without any point or stop to it and then has the audacity to yell at me when I say anything. Literally told me “I don’t care what you have to say you have no right to speak around me”
This is exactly what he does all the time. No matter how he begins a conversation I’ve learned he has some weird agenda behind it.
WTF
that's my sister, for decades
And it’s always so contrived , calculated, and rehearsed, that’s what my ex husband did. Set me up, all the time. So i learned to grey rock before i even knew what that was, as self preservation! Never react , that’s all they desire - our reaction. Make them scramble by not complying
More and more I feel like it is a misnomer to call these "conversations". To interact with a narcissist is to be abused.
🎯
Yes every interaction is abuse
I am sick of this tactic. My CN also uses this to attempt to gaslight me as well. I have learned that silence is golden and unpredictability(playing dumb when I see it coming) within the conversation itself confuses them into a retreat from continuing on. I learned that sometimes you have to play the part of a fool to fool the fool who's attempting to fool you. Gray rock has helped me tons
U are a star! Love your strategy. I do the same. Show little to no reaction, give no info as much as possible. Otherwise risk being burned in future
Conversations are also geared toward eroding someone else's (commonly the people they claim to love) belief in their own individualism, authenticity, unrestricted self-identity, autonomy and intuition. Best, ~L.
Well said
@@Anna-rt3id Thank you 😊
@@La-La-ov2lw Actually, thank you 🪽
Yep. Devalue. Smear. Always look for things to insult or pick at. Very negative people overall
Once you see a repeat pattern of these tactics in someone, you’ll see it coming. Don’t get in the boxing ring! Also don’t get fooled about what is being said. Focus instead on the why or desired (hidden) reason for it. Also I find that playing dumb works well.
Good tip about the playing dumb. I shall try that next time.😂
Great advice
Maybe many aha and... mmm 🤔 can save us from that type of unwanted conversations
@@Lyrielonwind , I love listening to interviews with Princess Anne for this reason. She's mastered the art of putting off intrusive and annoying people. Earlier in her life, she'd just say emphatically, "bugger off!" But now, she's gotten her responses down to an art form, in my opinion. Nothing seems to ruffle her feathers.
Playing dumb can look like fawning. I use it in order to say ok and bolt out of there quickly. 🏃🏻♀️💨
Having a conversation with a narcissist should be avoided like the plauge IMHO.
My Golden Child older sister is always on the attack. I always feel like a fighter against the ropes.
3:00 also they will mention something "Did you hear about..." to elicit some sort of response out of you. Maybe not for the immediate moment, maybe something for later. Like they will say it, not listen to your answer, and hope the seed they planted will get you to act a certain way later. For example they could say Did you hear about xyz and then maybe it was completely made up but they are hoping you say it to someone else to make you look stupid or to get you starting rumors. They rarely use speech for communication with you, it is usually about abusing you in some way, controlling you in some way because they hate your independence.
My insanely narcissistic coworker cannot hold a conversation. He asks pointed questions so he can validate his behaviors.
Many flying monkeys use this to gather info to use against you at a later time your fears your love etc
Going silent on a narc pisses them off.😂
It drives them insane. You can actually see their physical consternation.
True! 😁
Yep, then they accuse you of manipulating or trying to conveniently “forget “ things, cuz they NEED and CRAVE our attention , information, want to know our vulnerabilities
So well said Darren. Made me have a bit of a chuckle as I've experienced pretty much all of this conversational rot.
Excellent topic!! I have been involved with some of these tactics. I look back at it now (as this was years ago) and I am so glad I’m no contact (3 yrs this Oct). I’m so happy you uploaded this video about it. Very manipulative behavior. Thanks again.
And of course they throw others under the bus all the time 😢.
Just remember the word leveling and think of a seesaw. When you’re down, they go up. It’s actually humorous. And yeah, it hurts
I did learn that this could be an easy upfront sign that I could be talking to a narcissist, if I don't know the person.
Very accurate. I have several in my family. Reactive abuse. Induced conversation. Now I have more terms in my pocket.
Keep them to yourself as you observe but don’t react 😉
@@caroleminke6116You really know the drill!
@@caroleminke6116 It was incredible how easy it became to notice when I learned to keep my cards close to my chest.
Darren, you hit several nails directly on their heads...
One person I thought was a closer friend in my career was the very person I should've run from. After my therapy began, I recognized how this person was twisting my joking reactions to serious statements, bringing names in that I'd had bad experiences with (just to go directly tell them), among many other similar stupidities; all intended to bury me and they could still keep smiling in my face while doing it.
Now that I recognize what I'd heard for years, it stands out like a zit on a pale redhead, and puts me on high alert to watch for red flags from that individual
Yep! They try to make you talk bad about people. Then dig for more info to use later, to seem in the know to others. Triangulate. That’s their middle name and go to tactic . Then we feel so dumb for letting our guard down . Stay strong ! Their envy and shame is their driver of despicable behavior.
@@fooled_twice4668 In my case it was a public figure, so there was permanent damage
Most lawyers engage in these tactics. The court system is kept going by these tactics either by perpetrators or attorneys . It's a business to the lucrative court system, trying to milk & drag as much money as possible out of you for years if possible.
That's right.
An interesting topic would be why you have to induce conversations with narcs when you have to coparent/relate with them. Because you can't just outright ask for your needs or something you need. You have to basically trick the narc into believing said thing might be beneficial to them somehow. Otherwise, you get stuck. So you have to speak to them like you would any adult toddler... This is a real thing. 🎉
Right. Or pretend like the thing you want is something you fear or do not want. It's so sick and sad.
@@rubberbiscuit99 Reverse psyche with a tricky adult is HARD.
@@setthetone6187 Yes, and if they smell it, it won't work. Which the smart ones will. Smell it.
@@rubberbiscuit99 Yep, or 6ou almost get them to cooperate and then they realise they are cooperating then they ruin it. Like trying to heard cattle through a gate. Come on! You can act like a decent person! Come on! Nope!
Attention, power, control.
🎯
Yeah, who wants to have a visit with a demon?
I suspected, but never knew for sure....
Those sneeky .........
Thank you
It's always an important topic and good discussion on this channel, none more so than this, in my view. My experience of induced conversation amounts to conclusions decided in advance to berate, belittle and condemn the target no matter what, with the conversation itself being about hooking the target into trying to explain and defend themselves, to implement the belief that the narcissistic abuser is in charge and that the target has to have their agreement and approval.
Justified self-defence against people like this is thus just a snare for reinforcing their false vision of themselves as a glorious supreme authority to be admired, worshipped and deferred to.
Yep! They try to make you talk bad about people. Then dig for more info to use later, to seem in the know to others. Triangulate. That’s their middle name and go to tactic . Then we feel so dumb for letting our guard down . Stay strong ! Their envy and shame is their driver of despicable behavior.
I had a narcissist boss who actually tried to get everyone on the team to reveal their traumatic life experiences as well as the things that mean the most to them as part of “team building”. Ofc when it was his turn he shared nothing 😂. I really hated that guy.
They use that stuff for ammo...
I'm super guilty of asking about a topic and then dumping everything I know about it. I do it to gain perspective, but if they don't know anything about the topic I feel it's a great chance to inform them. I used to think its because I love learning and sharing knowledge. Guess that makes me a shitty person instead. 🤷🏼♂️ I'll work on trying to remain silent until spoken to.
It's about the intention behind doing it imo. Sounds to me like you're doing it because you're genuinely passionate about certain topics and want to share what you know about it. That's different than doing it to stroke your ego or make other people feel inferior.
Trust me, I'm neurodivergent and like to infodump about stuff I'm interested in too. There's a difference in how it feels to talk to someone who is sincerely infodumping vs. narcissistic monologuing. In my experience, narcissistic types usually try too hard to sound like they know what they're talking about, when they actually know very little. So don't take this too hard ✌🏻
I can dump everything I know of a topic I like because I get carried away and excited and maybe people are not interested but I don't do it to manipulate or control anyone.
I know narcissists who ask you whatever question to turn around and leave you talking by yourself...That's mean induced conversation.
I've been a tad neurodivergent all my life and naive most of it. So my older sister would drag me into a negative comment to support her ego. Like if a friend was mean to her , I felt bad and would put the friend down feeling bad for my sister. Then later she would use that to alienate "friend" against me.
That's at 3 years so imagine me untangling this shit.😅
Triabgulate. Smear. Devalue. It’s always back to these things .
She needed your attention
First I’ve heard someone speak about this topic which I’ve experienced by two different narcissists.
I knew immediately the question was being presented in a such a strange manor, but having no knowledge of narcissism at the time.
The question was to gather information from me to be used against me.
You will definitely feel something is very off about the approach they use to asking the question. It will leave you feeling distrustful of the person.
They can problematize literally anything, no matter how benign, in order to turn the conversation to whatever thing they want. Or, sometimes they'll start an agreement. An agreement is like an argument, except you actually agree on the initial proposition, but the person who wants an argument insists that you disagree. In doing so, they actually have started an argument, so you have to be savvy enough to start agreeing with them that you're actually arguing with them, but then while doing so change your position so they have to argue against their original point. Or just walk away, but that isn't always an option.
Sounds like the Karpman triangle but between two...but I know what you mean. Some narcissists will do it just for the sake of a confrontation.
Mine fell under the header of control. That, after the lockdown began, my neighbor wanted us to sit outside, everyday after work, to chat. She’d been living there for about 3 years. But, we’d never said more than hi. But, what I believe she was trying to do was to ensure I became used to my time being blocked out for her, because she’d decided I’d be her free caregiver. I cut the conversations short, telling her that both of us could get back to what we were doing, but I could tell that frustrated her. It was a loss of control she was trying to gain and it was me knowing I had an option and wasn’t too nice to take it. How did I really know she didn’t like it? Because further manipulations and smear campaigning came afterwards. It felt like, “I don’t know who you think you are, living in my attic (apartment above me), thinking you can go to work, come home, do as you please not come down here, cook and clean and take care of me and my newly-adopted dog, and not buy a newer car to take me around. When I moved in, just my presence should’ve put you on notice, that you were going to be like a cat on a hot tin roof, so I could relax and watch TV all day! The NERVE, after I’ve gone through the trouble to retire early, with no medical or financial plans! Here I am, a whopping 6 years older, with my husband in prison on a double murder and this useless child thinks she can get away with just paying the rent!”
gad damn that’s a story
@@harrietleah212 and that’s was the second neighbor out of, basically, three.
The first, was an old lady, who lived alone. She and her 3 adult children wanted me to “spend time” with her. Could even bring my cat with me. They didn’t outright ask that I be her caregiver. My guess is that people often don’t, reasons being they want it to “seem” like you volunteered, they don’t intend to pay you for this obligation, and they may be trying to dodge labor laws. You know, treat you like an immigrant, who’d better comply, lest you be deported, only, I’m a black woman, who’s a US citizen, who happens to be a neighbor. Not a maid, paying rent, to living in your attic, so I can run a free nursing home. But, narcissism and racism are close cousins. And her husband was black, but through conversation, it became clear to me that not everyone marries for love. Some people also just feel they don’t need to ask, what YOU should’ve assumed, which is that you’re beneath them. Just invite you over for a “friendly visit”, start showing you around and assigning duties. I also gather this neighbor and her adult children felt I’d feel more “comfortable” with this type of work, than working for the two well-known corporations I was working for, at the time, working 100 hours/week, commuting 4 hours/day.
It’s sad, because I’ve watched a few people die with these presumptions. That included my mother (with both of my parents being black educators, BTW), with her growing narcissistic behavior. These types feel you HAVE to stay and suffer, under their iron fist, without realizing that all you have to do is walk away.
Current downstairs neighbor? Hadn’t been living their 6 months, before she “decided” I was going to be her child’s nanny, if I was going to sit outside and enjoy the weather after work. So, sitting outside now happens at about 10PM. I’m polite. Not stupid.
My sister-in-law has never been in a successful relationship or married. She is very negative even at age 75. Recently she fell on a train and broke her hip. While in the hospital, 3 of her siblings did not visit her. My 27 yr old son was the only one and she manipulated him by calling and asking him to buy her food and visit. As a sister-in-law who lives 10 hrs away, I asked my son if he would do it. He graciously did, but works full time as well. So recently she sent me gifts, this tactic is so that I could call her to thank her. She criticized my son at least 3 times, then started on me. I soon said I had to go..even ended with…love you. I just knew these gifts had strings so I sent them back. She left a message saying I was nasty and if I didn’t call her back that is very spiteful.
I cannot take the bait (her control)…but proud that my son and his girlfriend were the only ones that visited her. Now I’m done.
Subjects they know about?? The narcs I know KNOW everything about everything 😂😂😂
We are the tent pegs to hold up "the straw man",only engage where the result is fruit,which will feed everyone around you,joy,encourgement,sharing,!Move on when you see no fruit !They'll be looking to steal yours and call it they're own.
Thank you so much for broaching this helpful topic, Darren. You have so much experience and unpack your knowledge so well for us! I have to admit that I found myself in here a little bit, when you were talking about conversational narcissism, specifically leading the conversation. (I think in legal terms, since I'm a part-time legal documents proofreader.) I'm a 'retired' nutritional counselor and homeopath, so I do sometimes 'jump in' to assist others in finding better products at my local nutritional supplements store. Since I've lived in this community for 24 years, many people ask my advice, so many of my conversations include instruction to others. Pondering my conversations with friends and neighbors, I believe those conversations are mostly back and forth and give and take, but I certainly might offer advice. I have the idea that if a person I know well is mentioning some type of health problem to me, that they expect a reply. But I usually ask if they'd like to hear what I'd recommend, if they'd like to discuss it with me for a few minutes. Of course, as a mom and grandmother, I'm in the same boat... Even so, this topic made me feel a bit🌶 uneasy. It's difficult to assess myself here, but I did take a stab🔪 at it. I'm not sure I'd want to hear what my grown children would have to say, since I had to be both the mom AND the dad when they were growing up!😮LOL Possibly🤔 I'm okay-- I certainly hope so! Now that it's in the forefront of my mind, hopefully I will do a better job...😅
I have a question. I hear a lot of people saying narcissists always turn a conversation to be about them. What's the difference between someone turning the conversation to be about them vs someone talking about a similar experience/situation to relate to the current conversation?
You described my interactions with my grown adult daughter to a t. Taking notes so i can recognize the pattern. I never trust her and she has burned me many times , exposing my secrets and making it seem like it’s my problem if i wanted to keep something discrete. I’d love to go no contact but can’t due to my sense of obligation and guilt, which she manipulates. What to do? Boundaries, i know. Basically i try to dodge every question she asks in a probing manner, and tell my loved ones to do the same.
What type of narcissist is your daughter? Mine is a covert; age 32.
She discarded me 4 months ago. At first, it was devastating, but now the trauma bond is broken and I feel completely different.
I actually blocked her from texting me because I seriously never want to see her again. She’s evil and I have no need for someone like her in my life.
I hope you will not feel guilty about your daughter. I hope soon you will feel nothing for her at all because she will harm you at every opportunity.
You didn’t have a conversation with my father, you were granted an audience.
So, so true. And I would add to that. You felt like you had to rush and get your little bit of information out before the walls started closing in. I could almost time the phone calls from the first word until the cut off by him, “well I’m glad you called” or “good to hear from you”, or “thank’s for thinking about me”. Estimated time of allowance was around 3-4-5 minutes.
Thank you! Very accurate!
It’s almost as if you know my mom and dad personally. Pretty frightening.
Not much of a conversation talking about oneself the whole time
Thank you very much
I'm about to face one
I wish it will go well
I was waiting for this topic... thanks 👍😊
My neighbors would do this to me daily. Just so they could insult me. If I addressed what they said…. Gaslighting 🙄. The stress was real.
This one is quite complicated because of the strategy
once i mentioned about Warren Buffett's US$32billion donation and suddenly my narc elder brother went into rage 'haha, i donated more ! i had donated $50 two years ago, just imagine hungry people that used my donation to buy food 2 years ago, if they wait for Warren's donation, they will be dead' 😅😅😅
Thank you ❤
They use "funny" stories to shame others.
Yep. Always looking for ways to embarrass others. So immature and transparent
Do you have videos or advice on how to interact with the narcissist? In my case it is my mother who soon might need assisted living and help navigating that process. Also, do narcissists know that they are narcissists?
All these podcast bros
Going to guess before I watch. 1) To assess your mental state for manipulation purposes later, 2) To garner information on other people or situations thru you, 3) To get an agreement commitment from you prematurely which they will enforce relentlesslly, and 4) To begin the mental punishment process that will never relent unless you surrender everything. Alright, let's see how well I guessed...
These are great tactics by the way to use against them accordingly… let the games begin..😁
spannnxxx!!!!