Wow you are getting a very precise machine base with simple tools! I am very impressed! Even though it seems your native language is not English, you are very good at describing what you are doing in English, along with great practical demonstrations. Great work my friend keep it up. Subscribed and will now watch all of your cnc machine videos! I had been planning to build an epoxy granite machine but now I think I will use the same construction method as you (If I can get a reasonable price granite surface plate to my region of the world) Seems like it could be simpler, more accurate AND cheaper than an epoxy granite base!
I have been thinking a lot about how to build a high quality CNC, capable of cutting steel, in my basement. I was thinking of going down the epoxy granite path but this is a much better idea. There are generally several decent surface plates on craigslist at any given time in my area. Well done sir.
In my opinion tool is not as important as knowing how to use it and knowing what you are actually doing 😀 I could have done it with many other tools. This one was the easiest and quickest to use
When you buy a Granite surface plate you know it is flat. Because it's a measuring tool. Depending on the grade it should be flat with in just few microns over the whole surface. Whatever you attach later to it you can reference of the surface plate.
What type on knife sharpening stones are you using here? I mean is it aluminium oxide or carbide or what? Do you think the material makes a difference?
One was really cheap stone for sharpening kitchen knives and the other one was for sharpening some exotic knives or swords with grit 1000 and 3000 on the other side. I don't think ingredients will make any significant difference. Don't forget to use wd 40
Great measurement technique! Could maybe use a similar technique when gluing to improve the alignment and reduce the amount of grinding needed. Wear a P100 or P95 half-mask respirator ($20..40) when working around rock dust, to prevent silicosis.
you could use granite parallels and you won't have to grind anything. i got my sides, from a bench top manufacturer and it wasn't even cut straight. so no matter what i had to grind it.
I'm hoping that people grinding on rock will learn about needing the respirator from this, instead of from the doctor after they have trouble breathing and find out that the lung damage is permanent. Half-mask respirators are only about $20. Replacement lungs cost considerably more.
Hey Piotr, the videos are detailed and excellent, Thank-you. Do you have any advice / tips for setting the height of the drill / grinding disk? You obviously got it to within < 1mm of the starting surface of the final height. Did you simply find the lowest position over both sides, place the drill bit / disk on that position and then tighten the chuck over the bit? That feels like it would get reasonably close to the lowest surface height? If you set that height with a sheet of paper underneath the drill you could then lower that by a further 50 microns and deliver a constant height to grind the top surfaces into? Was that the approach? Something different? Something simpler? Would be great to hear your take. Thanks
You got it right ;) I haven't used paper because there is more flex in the drill and the way how it bites while is cutting. This is just a rough pass to get it parallel to the base and same height. Then you finish it by hand. Or not if you manage to get it in to close enough for your standard
i guess you refer to diamond grinding disc on a drill press. of course it would be much better if everything would be perfectly flat. but it doesn't have to be, it could be crooked in every possible way and you still will get it really flat. as long you grind with the lowest point of the rotating disc on every part of the surface you grind. patience is required and the sound of the grinding disc has to be the same on the whole surface, once you are with in 0.01mm to 0.02mm you switch to knife sharpening stone or lapping plate and finish it by hand checking measurements with Digital Height Gauge. or dial indicator. patience is the key!
Final tuning by hand and patience, you must lap the surface in the end. The key here is that the base is a surface plate, clever. I guess it is very hard to buy a metal machine to the level of precision of this one. I think this thing can cut steel without trouble (well he needs an appropriate spindle for that purpose) but the machine is sturdy and very accurate.
I would like to recommend a book to you and to all that enjoy talks about building machines with 1 micron accuracy. I think you will all like to learn what it takes to achieve accuracy 3 orders of magnitude better. The book is Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy by Wayne R. Moore. Also check out other books W Moore authored.
strange, i just typed in google "1 micron dial indicator" and i found it at the first link www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-New-Mitutoyo-2109S-10-Micron-Dial-Indicator-0-1mm-0-001-Made-Japan-/233389880291?ef_id=Cj0KCQjw4dr0BRCxARIsAKUNjWQNi6WPUFn6p7R1cQqpiSDJ51VSgoPnV0a3BTqNcNNFkNPlD0zuypwaAoqmEALw_wcB:G:s
4:26 - So from my understanding, using this machine allows you to get micron precision flatness? You need to make a book of how you exactly made this granite CNC machine.
Fox, Is the granite table a Granite Surface Plate or granite used for home construction? Did you make it extremely flat with the same process in this video using the drill press?
Wondering what the black cloth-like material under the drill press is? I assume added to help the drill press slide without excessive tipping. Plastic?
Its reduclusly accurate. What if we make cnc out of glass ?? But i think granite is more hard and stiff then the glass. You should try it with diamond 😂😂😂. Overall cool. Have you seen a x carve🤣🤣🤣? Take a look and see what accuracy and rigidity mean.😆
I think x carve is good for someone who starts with cnc. considering the price of, it's less what i paid for my piece of crap rails and ball screws... Machine at this price is an incredible achievement not sure how the hell they can make it so cheap and still have some profit.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki 🤣🤣🤣🤣you said cheap i don't think 1k usd is too much for that machine. Only motors and router ,g shield is good , otherwise everything is just like toys. I really can't understand how actually it even works with wobbling axes. But it works 😆😆😆😂😂🤣.
Thats actually impossible to get 1 micron accuracy with that setup. The fact that dial indicator shows that exraordinary results can have a few possible reason: 1 - dial indicator are not perfect, and that looks what yours are china oem one. So dial indicator can have their own tolerance way more whan 1 micron. Even Mitytoyo one sometimes have 0.01mm tolerances. 2 - all dial indicatoror have their own "measurement force". Thats a force which you need to apply to shaft for moving internal mechanism. So that force can be enougth to move your dial indicator stand before(!) moving wheir shaft. Whats a frequently reason why people sometimes have virtually impossible tolerances like 1 micron with cheap tools and absolutely unproper setups - their indicator stands (especially flexed one) just deforms first and only then whe dial indicator show something :)
I know it's hard to believe. But if you would just try to do what I have done. Maybe than you could change your believes ;) I know how dial indicator works and one thing is a tolerance and the other thing is reading. If you could watch all the videos from that series you would see that the dial indicator actually moves left and right on piece of rubbish linear rails. It's good to question things you see, but sometimes things are just as you see them ;)
But ingeneering its not about "trust", its about "know" :) Im also forget to notice: you have the same base for both procedure - grinding and measuring. Thats not really right. You should have some real "thrusted measuring straigth edge" properly installed on bottom plate as a base for indicator stand. You grinded surfaces just tend to have same error as well as plate, and then you put dial. ind. stand on same plate surfaces and read something "around zero" tolerances, cause every reading in every point automatically "compensated". And this despite the fact that "grinder" had a bigger base than indicator stand. So, considering all these facts, yes, we can read "near zero" tolerance on indicator, but does it really looks truth - unfortunately not really :) Dont get me wrong. You doing great job, and im quite sure that tolerances of that cnc machine would be far enougth whan you, probably, really need, but anyway, measuring - its a serious stuff! We all should do it proper way :)
Well, I don't think he pretends the surface is flat within 1 micron, he just shows they are parallel to each other within 1 micron (+ measurement error)
Well, you are right but you should consider that he is just comparing the heights not taking any measurements. Because is is just comparing the heights there is no need to have real precise dial indicator and setup. He just checking the squareness and comparing with other side.
Apparently "normal" European hair is in the range of 60-80 microns. His dial indicator shows 75 microns, and then returns to zero when he moves off the hair. Which suggests it's pretty accurate, maybe not 1 micron accurate, but certainly less than a human hair's width accurate.
Wow you are getting a very precise machine base with simple tools!
I am very impressed!
Even though it seems your native language is not English, you are very good at describing what you are doing in English, along with great practical demonstrations.
Great work my friend keep it up.
Subscribed and will now watch all of your cnc machine videos!
I had been planning to build an epoxy granite machine but now I think I will use the same construction method as you (If I can get a reasonable price granite surface plate to my region of the world)
Seems like it could be simpler, more accurate AND cheaper than an epoxy granite base!
I have been thinking a lot about how to build a high quality CNC, capable of cutting steel, in my basement. I was thinking of going down the epoxy granite path but this is a much better idea. There are generally several decent surface plates on craigslist at any given time in my area. Well done sir.
Wow, Bosch drilling press used as surface grinder!! Wundabar and das ist fantastisch!!!
genius using the drill press to flatten the side walls. 🤯so freakin brilliant
In my opinion tool is not as important as knowing how to use it and knowing what you are actually doing 😀 I could have done it with many other tools. This one was the easiest and quickest to use
How do you know that the granite base is completely flat? Do you need one of the column to be set as master with the base?
When you buy a Granite surface plate you know it is flat. Because it's a measuring tool. Depending on the grade it should be flat with in just few microns over the whole surface. Whatever you attach later to it you can reference of the surface plate.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks, also how big is the height gauge you're using?
love that microns :) congratulations
What type on knife sharpening stones are you using here? I mean is it aluminium oxide or carbide or what? Do you think the material makes a difference?
One was really cheap stone for sharpening kitchen knives and the other one was for sharpening some exotic knives or swords with grit 1000 and 3000 on the other side. I don't think ingredients will make any significant difference. Don't forget to use wd 40
Hey Fox! Just wondering if you used a machine level to level the granite plate. Thanks
Great measurement technique! Could maybe use a similar technique when gluing to improve the alignment and reduce the amount of grinding needed.
Wear a P100 or P95 half-mask respirator ($20..40) when working around rock dust, to prevent silicosis.
you could use granite parallels and you won't have to grind anything. i got my sides, from a bench top manufacturer and it wasn't even cut straight. so no matter what i had to grind it.
I'm hoping that people grinding on rock will learn about needing the respirator from this, instead of from the doctor after they have trouble breathing and find out that the lung damage is permanent.
Half-mask respirators are only about $20. Replacement lungs cost considerably more.
Thanks for the parallels idea!
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thanks for advice, will buy tall parallel and stick them + bolt on top of table - jobs done
@@tomjdesigns1280 If you find an economical source I would love to know about it! They seem to be pretty proud of those parallels.
Hey Piotr, the videos are detailed and excellent, Thank-you. Do you have any advice / tips for setting the height of the drill / grinding disk? You obviously got it to within < 1mm of the starting surface of the final height. Did you simply find the lowest position over both sides, place the drill bit / disk on that position and then tighten the chuck over the bit?
That feels like it would get reasonably close to the lowest surface height? If you set that height with a sheet of paper underneath the drill you could then lower that by a further 50 microns and deliver a constant height to grind the top surfaces into?
Was that the approach? Something different? Something simpler?
Would be great to hear your take.
Thanks
You got it right ;) I haven't used paper because there is more flex in the drill and the way how it bites while is cutting. This is just a rough pass to get it parallel to the base and same height. Then you finish it by hand. Or not if you manage to get it in to close enough for your standard
Thanks for the ultra rapid response! It’s an ingenious approach.
Glad you like it ;)
Piotr, have you checked that bosh drill for run out and squareness to table? Looks like very handy piece of kit but expensive £280!
Its a hobby drill press. And it is quite loose in all tolerances. But it did worked out
Its a hobby drill press. And it is quite loose in all tolerances. But it did worked out
Sir this is absolutely brilliant. But what makes me really upset is the lack of FFP3 respirator
How do you make sure that the drill grinding stone is perfectly flat? I have some angle grinding stones like that - and I mine are not flat.
Or do you do all the final tuning by hand - is that what I'm seeing?
i guess you refer to diamond grinding disc on a drill press. of course it would be much better if everything would be perfectly flat. but it doesn't have to be, it could be crooked in every possible way and you still will get it really flat. as long you grind with the lowest point of the rotating disc on every part of the surface you grind. patience is required and the sound of the grinding disc has to be the same on the whole surface, once you are with in 0.01mm to 0.02mm
you switch to knife sharpening stone or lapping plate and finish it by hand checking measurements with Digital Height Gauge. or dial indicator. patience is the key!
Final tuning by hand and patience, you must lap the surface in the end. The key here is that the base is a surface plate, clever. I guess it is very hard to buy a metal machine to the level of precision of this one. I think this thing can cut steel without trouble (well he needs an appropriate spindle for that purpose) but the machine is sturdy and very accurate.
I would like to recommend a book to you and to all that enjoy talks about building machines with 1 micron accuracy. I think you will all like to learn what it takes to achieve accuracy 3 orders of magnitude better. The book is Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy by Wayne R. Moore. Also check out other books W Moore authored.
Long out of print and currently goes for $$$ used.
Where did you find a 1 micron indicator? I can't find any.
strange, i just typed in google "1 micron dial indicator" and i found it at the first link www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-New-Mitutoyo-2109S-10-Micron-Dial-Indicator-0-1mm-0-001-Made-Japan-/233389880291?ef_id=Cj0KCQjw4dr0BRCxARIsAKUNjWQNi6WPUFn6p7R1cQqpiSDJ51VSgoPnV0a3BTqNcNNFkNPlD0zuypwaAoqmEALw_wcB:G:s
4:26 - So from my understanding, using this machine allows you to get micron precision flatness? You need to make a book of how you exactly made this granite CNC machine.
It all depends on feed and speed.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki what is this machine called? How can I buy one or make one in USA?
What is the brand of drill machine? How much does it cost?
its a Bosch PBD40 i paid around 400nzd for it, but ant other drill will do as long you can flip it back to front.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the quick reply.
Fox, Is the granite table a Granite Surface Plate or granite used for home construction? Did you make it extremely flat with the same process in this video using the drill press?
Granite Surface Plate
Is that base plate are inspection thrusted plate?
It has a certificate to 5 microns over the whole surface
which is 0.0002", or a "Grade A" surface plate.
Gorgeous!
Wondering what the black cloth-like material under the drill press is? I assume added to help the drill press slide without excessive tipping. Plastic?
Acrylic felt.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thank you!
I think it may be good to wash the (abrasive) rock dust out of it periodically.
I know this is late, but I think a sheet of drafting paper, wax paper or mylar would work well, too
Super! Great job!
All that grinding dust, with you not using respirator, is going to be bad for you...
Even small amount of water would help a lot....
Its reduclusly accurate. What if we make cnc out of glass ?? But i think granite is more hard and stiff then the glass. You should try it with diamond 😂😂😂.
Overall cool. Have you seen a x carve🤣🤣🤣?
Take a look and see what accuracy and rigidity mean.😆
I think x carve is good for someone who starts with cnc. considering the price of, it's less what i paid for my piece of crap rails and ball screws... Machine at this price is an incredible achievement not sure how the hell they can make it so cheap and still have some profit.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki 🤣🤣🤣🤣you said cheap i don't think 1k usd is too much for that machine. Only motors and router ,g shield is good , otherwise everything is just like toys.
I really can't understand how actually it even works with wobbling axes. But it works 😆😆😆😂😂🤣.
interesting
So much for HMS! :)
Hms?
Thats actually impossible to get 1 micron accuracy with that setup. The fact that dial indicator shows that exraordinary results can have a few possible reason: 1 - dial indicator are not perfect, and that looks what yours are china oem one. So dial indicator can have their own tolerance way more whan 1 micron. Even Mitytoyo one sometimes have 0.01mm tolerances. 2 - all dial indicatoror have their own "measurement force". Thats a force which you need to apply to shaft for moving internal mechanism. So that force can be enougth to move your dial indicator stand before(!) moving wheir shaft. Whats a frequently reason why people sometimes have virtually impossible tolerances like 1 micron with cheap tools and absolutely unproper setups - their indicator stands (especially flexed one) just deforms first and only then whe dial indicator show something :)
I know it's hard to believe. But if you would just try to do what I have done. Maybe than you could change your believes ;) I know how dial indicator works and one thing is a tolerance and the other thing is reading. If you could watch all the videos from that series you would see that the dial indicator actually moves left and right on piece of rubbish linear rails. It's good to question things you see, but sometimes things are just as you see them ;)
But ingeneering its not about "trust", its about "know" :) Im also forget to notice: you have the same base for both procedure - grinding and measuring. Thats not really right. You should have some real "thrusted measuring straigth edge" properly installed on bottom plate as a base for indicator stand. You grinded surfaces just tend to have same error as well as plate, and then you put dial. ind. stand on same plate surfaces and read something "around zero" tolerances, cause every reading in every point automatically "compensated". And this despite the fact that "grinder" had a bigger base than indicator stand.
So, considering all these facts, yes, we can read "near zero" tolerance on indicator, but does it really looks truth - unfortunately not really :)
Dont get me wrong. You doing great job, and im quite sure that tolerances of that cnc machine would be far enougth whan you, probably, really need, but anyway, measuring - its a serious stuff! We all should do it proper way :)
Well, I don't think he pretends the surface is flat within 1 micron, he just shows they are parallel to each other within 1 micron (+ measurement error)
Well, you are right but you should consider that he is just comparing the heights not taking any measurements. Because is is just comparing the heights there is no need to have real precise dial indicator and setup. He just checking the squareness and comparing with other side.
Apparently "normal" European hair is in the range of 60-80 microns. His dial indicator shows 75 microns, and then returns to zero when he moves off the hair. Which suggests it's pretty accurate, maybe not 1 micron accurate, but certainly less than a human hair's width accurate.