My internal dialogue: that looks so slick, need to do that as base for my 3D printer. Imagining wife’s question: why did you do that, you can’t even lift it? Me: Ummm. Doesn’t it look great?
If you use a printer that doesn't move the bed, you can make a heated bed using an aluminum plate and some underfloor heating elements, then pour the epoxy over it.
@@Krmpfpks the appearance is awesome right? Also works great for speakers since it's heavy and acoustically inert, raises the WAF by quite a bit in my experience.
In our plant we have two Hardinage CNC lathe that machine metals to 0.0001” tolerance the beds are made from epoxy granite. Good material. Your machine looks like it would be very strong and stiff. I like your explanation on modulus and dampening.
A great video! Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. Here are some ideas I hope you find helpful. 1) To eliminate the cosmetic surface bubbles you can paint the mold with a coating of straight epoxy first. You could also color this epoxy to form a "gel coat" effect. Let it set up, or gel, before poring in the rest of the epoxy. If it isn't set enough, the epoxy granite mixture will "wash" it off. If it gets too hard it won't bond chemically with the epoxy granite and may flake off later. 2) De-gas the epoxy sand mixture in the bucket with your vacuum. That would help get rid of all of the little bubbles. Then be careful when you fill your mold to not create too many new bubbles. The bubbles you make pouring the epoxy into the mold will be large and those will rise to the surface quickly. 3) Packing ratio. Others have mentioned this. If you want to reduce the percentage of epoxy, you need to have different sized particles in your solids. If they are all the same size you will have a packing ratio of only about 64%. Mixing together sands of different grain sizes can increase you packing ratio and decrease your epoxy usage. 4) Epoxy does not bond to polyethylene. You can make your mold out of polyethylene as it machines nicely. There is also poly tape that can be used to to make a non-stick surface. Wax is still a good idea, but if you miss a spot it wouldn't matter much. 5) Sand blasting your aluminum parts is the gold standard for getting good adhesion with epoxy. Do it shortly before casting to prevent the aluminum from having time to grow a new oxide layer, and wear gloves to prevent contaminating the surface with skin oils. 6) Gloves: Wear them whenever you are using epoxy. Look up "epoxy contact dermatitis" to see why it is important.
you probably dont give a shit but does someone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account..? I stupidly lost the password. I would love any help you can offer me
@Declan Thaddeus I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
Might I suggest drying the sand by baking it in a oven for a while in my limited experience with resin and fillers moisture in the filler really messes with strength and leaves tiny bubbles in the material due to a chemical reaction.
I am thinking about using Aluminium oxide, but I am not sure if the epoxy will be able to bond on it, considering a welding require to break the oxide layer prior to have a good bonding.But then since epoxy stick with pretty much anything, I hope it could be an option.
@@CozzyKnowsBest Hey thanks, I was just under impression that aluminium oxide would be best, but figured out it might be a piece of mind to go straight for your reccomended products. Currently I have 30kg of play sand that also lays around in the house for a while. I might give it also a try like Adam did. Though I am looking for Epoxy seller around Montreal, will be the toughest part.
I just watched a special on submarines and carbon black as a dye adds to sound and vibration deadening by multitudes very interestingly I'll be using it if I try that that's actually why submarines are black even though blue would be better so as no to be seen and a palm sander on its side vibrates the bubbles out just fine vibrating it along the sides of mold
Great video! I'm planning on reinforcing and expanding my small milling machines column and base and make the switch to linear rails on all 3 axis. This information is very helpful.
I have done this with my own recipes and here are some tips and tricks. 1) Pre-heat the sand and resin which helps to speed up curing and removing bubbles as it lowers the viscosity of the resin. ( I didn't get any bubbles without using a vacuum chamber) 2) I mix sand, pea gravel, and crushed rock for mine as it uses less resin (Approx 5-10% resin to other ingredients) 3) Fiberglass resin also works extremely well and this is what I use (40$ at Walmart for a gallon). 4) If you want it to look professional, mix in charcoal powder to give it an extremely black coloring and nice surface finish. I made my powder from aquarium charcoal in a blender. For my next tests, I will be mixing glass fiber along with the other ingredients to try and increase the composite strength. I was blown away by this polymer concrete's performance and will not be going back to regular concrete.
No granite in this here video. Should be renamed "epoxy rock sand and dye" lol. Great idea! I always see mini used lathes without the base or with diy table bases. With this idea one could make a lathe base that would have a built-in coolant sink. Great idea!
I was able to drill the material pretty easily (for internal wiring) with a concrete bit, but I never tried machining it. I would imagine the sand would destroy the end mill pretty quickly, but it might work for a bit? Better to embed aluminum or steel in the material where you want to machine, and machine the metal after it cures.
Isn't lead alloys closest to the upper right corner of the chart? Let's take a quick look. Pros: cheap, easy to cast, easy to machine, very heavy. Cons: very heavy, not strong, the weak alloys dent easily, the strong(er) ones are brittle, oxides of lead and many of the alloying elements are toxic.
I really enjoyed this, thanks for sharing! #Peter#Brown has experimented with dies before and found that black pigment can be obtained using crushed charcoal, which works really well with epoxy. Should be cheaper than the dye you mentioned. 😁
But it was a very Beautiful pandemic inducing machine good job on building a beautiful piece of equipment and for getting the whole world’s knickers in a bunch and implementing the best policy ever social distancing.
First off great video. Very informative. I worked on an R&D project using Metal Injection Molding. The goal was to maximize the density of the metal balls and minimize the plastic filler. I learned that if you have fairly uniform diameter balls, the amount of plastic was about 17% (by volume) to have a mixture that had no interstitial voids with the minimum plastic. This 17% figure will always be the same for any mixture using uniform ball (or rocks here) size regardless of the size. Somewhat counter-intuitive to me. This would seem to be applicable if you assume that the sand grains are fairly uniform in size. You can get a denser mixture by using significantly larger rocks with the sand filling the space between the rocks. Here in Florida, I would put the fillers in the oven to drive out any moisture.
Nitpick: your design criteria was all about the material science of epoxy granite but my layman's assessment of your prototyping was what looked/poured best. While air gaps are probably not great, how can you know if some ratio with air bubbles might be much better than what you went with in the end? You didn't test the characteristics you chose it for via any means I saw: vibration resistance and stiffness. Thoughts?
A bit harsh perhaps, but I agree. The design aims are mixed up. If impeccable surface finish is important then use a gel coat or post process in the old fashioned way with filler and sanding. If a very specific mix of rigidity and vibrational damping is top priority, then they are mutually contradictory. A rigid material does not damp; a damping material cannot be rigid. There was no evaluation of the result.
@@raykent3211 Whoops. Didn't mean to be harsh, just objective! There was a lot of background given on the material choice and explaining the challenging blend of properties you mention: rigidity and damping. I guess I interpreted this as a technical focus, so it surprised me that none of the introduction material came back up during evaluation. That's all. Maybe it's sufficient to say "this material was known a priori to be great and thus as long as we use it, all that matters is the practical aspect of forming it well and having it smooth." Like if "wood" had the right property, then perhaps that's sufficient and an evaluation between maple, walnut, or pine don't matter. Dunno, but wondered the author's thoughts.
@@johnhendy1281 it's certainly an intriguing subject and not easy! My only reference is acoustic damping. The key seems to be near-continuous impedance variation. Realistically, the sound hits a low impedance (not stiff) material to avoid reflection and progresses through layers of increasing stiffness ending with maybe concrete. It's a matter of absorbing energy and minimizing reflection and propagation. But the energy can only be absorbed if the source is allowed to move, which for many machines is bad. I doubt if anyone would want a cnc spindle mounted in anything less than a perfectly rigid way.
@@raykent3211 With machines, there is already high impulse vibration in the metal. This is a bit unlike acoustic damping, where you need to pull the vibrations out of the less dense air and have to progressively absorb into more dense materials. The alu will carry the vibrations (usually unfortunately well). So by casting around the alu, the alu becomes a carrier to transfer to the absorber. This works similarly well with filling box beams. Though their outer surface can still carry some vibrations. If you imagine them trying to resonate, the semi-squish and mass of the super absorber material eats up all the inward pulses. That makes it extremely good at sapping any harmonics from growing.
Maybe I am assuming things incorrectly, but reducing air bubbles/pockets maximizes the density of the base, therefore adding more mass to lessen the vibrations. He most likely could just get away with having some air bubbles but if the final mixture can have better density and requires less variety of materials, it would simply be better to use the chosen material composition. And perhaps (could be really wrong) in extreme cases where excess vibrations are transmitted to the granite base, the pockets could act as stress risers potentially creating failure points, thus propagating cracks.
I think I've read your article on this about 10 times now. Great to see some videos too. A long-term review of the microscope / base would be interesting. Will keep watching for more videos.
Very. Cool. Game. Changer. This also solves the problem of the DIY guy who wants to make huge machine tool frames but has no access to iron casting equipment. Awesome project and video. Added to many of my playlists. But also added to personal favorites.
A few of my ideas... step 1 mix just clear expoy and harder together brush spray into mold... let it tack up the us a heat gun to pop bubbles... on the surface of mold let it set up for several hours.. Step 2 mix epoxy with harder and black pigment or paint... spray over the clear expoy let it tack and use heat gun to pop bubbles repeat a few times on corners or vertical surfaces where you need thicker covage...let it dry or tack almost dry.. Step 3.. mix expoy part a b add optional dye then add sand.... the harder... apply with spreader or bondo spreader to mold 1/4 to 1/2 thick coat as a surface finish to finished faces.. let it dry Step4 next day mix expoy with sand and some small gravel...fill mold up to 1/ 4 below desired depth...mix new top coat with expoy sand mix and Harder etc... to give smoother finish on under side This is how I get flawless smooth expoy granite.
Thanks for this video. I've built a small vertical mill from aluminum, and the poor edge finish on cuts due to vibration is a real shame. This seems like a great approach for a small scale CNC mill
Some suggestions: 1. To improve mechanical characteristics, use - a single digit percentage of epoxy - an aggregate with significantly better packing density - preferably grey cast iron or at least steel as reinforcing and interface members as its CTE matches that of the composite described above
2. Feel free to coat the inside of the mold w/ your material of choice (most of the time I use carbon-filled (i.e. toner powder) epoxy which gives a nice, shiny, smooth, jet black surface) before you start filling the mold w/ your actual mix. This way you don't have to factor in aesthetics even when you're supposed to design your composite to achieve the best mechanical properties. 3. Reinforcement might not even be necessary at all if your machine frame was designed to take advantage of the compressive strength of the composite, which can be brought up to 200+ MPa if you're open to using a more decent mix. Machine tool manufacturers don't seem to bother reinforcing their frames. 4. Vibration is the way to go. Vacuum pumps don't take epoxy vapor particularly well.
If you arrange internal cooling to the aluminum frame, it is actually better than steel or cast iron, as it conducts heat 3 times faster, thus you are able to maintain a set temperature easily.
being careful not to mix in air when mixing will help. Mixing larger batches so your paddle mixer can be kept below the surface. great video, subscribed!
Hello Adam! Good choice for the base but I was more interested in the precision aluminium sections and how you went about procuring them. Perhaps you could try the electro magnetic vibrator ( without a motor and eccentric weights ), which have a small amplitude of vibration about 1.6 mm, also used by construction people. Also you could use silica flour as fines. This and the sand should be dry as the heat generated will release some steam. Anyway you've been acquiring the skills as you went along. Best wishes!
Outstanding content. In 2 part polymers with fillers, I have always been told you need to mix part a and b together then mix in the filler to prevent differential adsorption of one part in the filler (sand in your case) which would inhibit a full cure. You're method seems nice since you're not rushed by the curing epoxy during mixing. Did you notice any softness in the end product?
Great work here! You inspired me to think of a couple things that might help. 1) a cheap shaker motor is easy to make: just use any motor, bur on the shaft you put an imbalanced load. 2) Instead of using an impossibly big vacuum tank, use the atmosphere itself by doing the opposite: mix the epoxy inside a pressure tank. That's way smaller. When you're done mixing releasing the air bubbles that were at high pressure should vent off easily into 1 atmosphere. When you pour it take care to not create bubbles. They shaker table should help with the rest of any trapped air.
yeah looks like you may have had some moisture troubles. And a vacuum chamber is a good idea but only vac each epoxy side A-B separate before mixing. This will help remove a lot of the air bubbles and when you mix do so gently to avoid adding air. For the best results after drying all other materials, vac A-B parts separately, you could pour some material into mold (not all), (I would pour epoxy in the mold 1st then add the rest)mix epoxy, pour and then add the rest of the material, stir all together gently to avoid adding air and then put mold in a pressure chamber to around 55psi up to 65psi... this will absolutely give you the best results.. I highly recommend Not Pouring one part of the epoxy in the mold adding filler and then adding the other part of epoxy!!!! Epoxy should be mix completely by itself before adding any of the other materials to it.. I think you have a great idea I really do, but I gotta say you went about mixing it all wrong bud.. resins can be really fussy, sometimes an out rite pain in the rear.
@@AdamBender Preston is correct. Mix the liquids first and draw a vacuum on that mixture. You have to remove the moisture or you will get a lot of internal voids and poor strenght.
Yes, degas the resins 1st and pour enough into the bucket to avoid sucking air in while mixing. Also, bake the sand & grit to release moisture before use. Also part of the goal is different grit sizes to scatter & absorb different frequencies.
learning a lot about using concrete from machines. Thank you for sharing your trials with us. I have a bit of experience with concrete, what you might call decorative or glass reinforced concrete...play sand is a big no no!! Its been tumbled so its not scratchy (for playing), but that means its round and does not properly lock together the concrete. Sharp sand is what you want....mason sand is super fine, but sharp and sold at any box hw store. Torpedo sand is more coarse and I am pretty sure that's what is in the tube sand bags, also sold all over. also your mixing method, I think mixing the epoxy & other liquids and then slowly adding the sand would ensure a better mix on the epoxy. If you are that strapped for time, start with the liquid in the bucket & add the sand. The way you did it had to be a son of a bitch to mix! Lastly, did you consider the use of glass reinforcement fibers / mesh? I have had great success with those is thin concrete that needed to be strong.
This is great information! If I ever make it again, I'll definitely try that sand type. Also, glass or carbon fibers was on my list of things to try, but I never got around to it. I agree this would be a great way to add stiffness. I'm sure it would mix well too.
@@AdamBender Glad to share some knowledge! I might give this a go soon too. one thing I would check on: does carbon fiber get along with concrete? Glass is used because of its alkaline resistant, no idea if carbon fiber has similar resistance (my guess is, it does). Maybe throw fiberglass in for consideration, as it can be even stronger than carbon fiber (not by weight, but that's meaningless in this application). secondly, adding fiber can be a bit tricky, especially with hand mixing and stiff mixes. Mixing the fiber in dry with the sand is a good idea, but do it slowly so you don't get concentrations of fiber. good luck
Ever look under a machine before and notice how pretty much all them are are set into grout? The stuff is basically non-toxic, non-shrink, same aggregate flexibility, voids fill and bubbles tamp out quickly, loss coefficient is within 10% of epoxy but young's modulus is almost 20x better than epoxy, easier to polish and dye, is designed to pull from molds, and can be had premixed for dirt cheap at the local Home Depot. I know the value of reinventing the wheel is priceless, but really, what's not to like?
Interesting idea! You could easily fill in the hollow voids in most cast iron bases with that material, I'm sure it would work pretty well. I have to admit, a strong driver for this cast base was also aesthetics in addition to the mechanical properties. Thanks for watching!
@@davidnaisuler5743 no but I have a lot of coolant in my CNC. It's porous, which makes it more prone to transmitting vibration as well as its fluid absorption and expansion/contraction. It'd be fine as a deadener material maybe.
Thank you for the deep explanations. The use of rocks has an issue, that the surface of the rocks you used is very rough. So air can stay at the Rocks. Classic concrete has stones out of the river, they are round to eliptic and can withstand high pressure. The amount of air stuck at the rocks is smaller. And this rocks are very cheap and you can use less epoxy. Good for bigger projects.
Okay, so, radical option. De-gas the epoxy before mixing in sand. If you’re insistent upon sand, part A, dye, then part B, de-gas after mixing in part B but before pouring.
I used to work making cultured marble and granit. We used powder and resins. Mixed it for about 2 hours, added dye, and laid it on a glass top shaker table. We shook it over night. Very informative though, as I'm wanting to build my own machine with a 4th axis for vertical round grinding, vertical free turn, and of course as a mill.
So not granite, epoxy concrete. I think I would put chopped strand glass in it as well for added strength . I am wondering if there will be problems with thermal expansion causing the aluminum and concrete to delaminate. Take your test block put a dial indicator on it and heat it up 100 degrees. Calculate the thermal expansion coefficient and compare that to aluminum. It will make an interesting video.
Super, super, super idea! I'm gonna build a mold for my 1k x 1k cnc router. You've opened my creative mind to endless structural possibilities with this option. What about welding a rebar reinforced inner structure, along with the aggregate/epoxy mix? You could do smaller pours and let set. You could pour a whole table, layers at a time and finish off with mounting options to secure your rails to or whatever your machine desires to function. Rebar is cheap. You could also integrate fence posts for structural support and not have alot of money in it. This idea has so much potential! Thank you for this video!
A welded rebar internal structure would work great! I've never tried the multiple pour option, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. The epoxy will bond to itself without issue between pours
Just curios, why not use steel or aluminum as the mold and final base with the epoxy granite on the inside? Would this not provide the stiffness of steel and the epoxy granite vibration absorption? I am not a engineer, just curious if there would be any reasons why this would not be a good approach.
of course you can do that it just wouldn't look as stylish. is there any reason to not have the epoxy granite as a show piece while providing vibration dampening?
Are plans for the rest of the CNC machine available? Also, I wonder if you could further reduce vibration by filling the hollow aluminum tubes with additional vibration dampening material.
My theory: using a vacuum chamber or high pressure to get the bubbles out will propably lead to maybe only epoxy filling the voids. You want the filler material as dense as possible though. Vibrating the material would be the best choice then I think. Your vibrator table seems to not be sufficient enough, maybe try a small electric motor with an offcenter weight on the shaft, and something to control the motor speed maybe. Would also be cheaper. Only using sand is also not that great, since it still is kinda coarse. There's some basalt based grit that's used for filling the gaps between walkway stones, it has bigger particles (maybe 1/16") down to dust like particles. Should work nicely.
Hi. If you ever make another polymer concrete would be interesting to see if adding Graphite would make it stronger. According to experiment made by Tech Ingredients channel it should be 50% stronger. If you want to know more watch "Making Graphene could KILL you... but we did it anyway?!" at 41:00. Love you Machine BTW. 👍
Outstanding information, thank you. I now have the knowledge to make a proper base for my audio turntable (yes, I still play and prefer vinyl records) and my 3D printer.
Aha, this is the base for this :) "Automated Measuring Microscope This is the RapidSight, a 3 axis, automated measuring microscope we developed at MOXER. It sits on a custom designed mineral cast base, and boasts 4 high precision linear stages. Everything was custom designed, machined and programmed by the MOXER team" Interesting!
So when it comes to vibration dampening, did anyone ever compare this to the stuff typically used for setting machinery? Stuff like precision grout, or some of the metal based aggregate grouts, or something totally epoxy based like Loctite nordbak? I would be curious how an epoxy and precision grout would behave. Interesting, would be cool to see some data on vibration dampening effect.
Your high sand version must not have much mass/weight compared to granite or lead ballast. Also, bolting any machine to the concrete floor is THE BEST vibration prevention. Sorry, but I think you're off on a wild, expensive, OCD fantasy here.
So basically concrete made with epoxy rather than Portland cement. I’m guessing the epoxy is more flexible than cement. I can see any flexing of the aluminum inside causing cracks and failure of the concrete.
For epoxy selection maybe try using a deep pour epoxy? Not sure how it would effect your tests, but it has a far longer cure time that what you were using. 3 days to cure. There are some epoxy out there that cure even slower
WOW! That's just one of the best explaining videos I've ever seen! If not THE BEST! Thank you so much for your great scientific work and for sharing it with everyone! Just great. Cheers mate!
Try this super new material called concrete. 😉 It's easier and way less expensive for little DIY projects like this one. You can tint it, and if you wax it it looks like a million bucks. That "skeleton" is guaranteed to transmit vibrations no matter how much you sink it into something else (even rebar does): bad idea. Professional machines use a lightweight steel base and Silentblock bolt fittings. Silentblock fittings are inexpensive. But perhaps the real motivation for over-complicating it is in that last phrase you said.
Concrete poorly tolerates any type of stress other than compression so you'll need to make the part that you're making out of it oversized. And any design mistake can easily lead to concrete cracking.
@@0fg4 Your probably confusing OPC for concrete. We're not talking about building something the size of a bridge here. That tiny little thing sits flat on a table. Even P100 can take it without a sweat.
@@mururoa7024 I'm no expert, but I believe concrete has mostly the same properties as OPC, only stronger. Of course if you're making a CNC engraver concrete will do. But so will do a bare aluminium frame. But if you're making a steel cutting lathe, it most likely will crack over time.
@@0fg4 Cement is brittle, concrete is not. They're different. He's making a "automated vision measurement" system, not a lathe. The only things that make concrete crack are corroding rebar, water infiltration freezing, extreme temperature changes (surface), and poor quality/wrong mix, not vibrations. There's a block of concrete inside your washing machine and you know how much that thing vibrates. 😉 Concrete will only transmit vibrations more than epoxy-granite, hence the use of Silentblocks.
@@mururoa7024 Concrete is brittle and requires reinforcement to not break under any type of stress except compression (that's what you wrote). While reinforcing against bending is pretty straightforward, reinforcing against torsion or combined stress may be tricky. Vibrations, depending on their parameters, the shape of a block and the way it is supported, may also break concrete if they create high enough local forces.
if you look on your graph you'd see that concrete/cement would have been a much better option as it's dirt cheap and does exactly what you need and you can add glass fibers and metal mesh to make it reinforced concrete which is more than strong enough to what you need.
This is a good idea! I have seems few videos on RUclips where someone uses concrete as a base. I wonder why it's not more prevalent in the industrial machines, perhaps it's not as dimensionally stable?
@@AdamBender near full drying of concrete takes 28 days per inch of thickness. This is not as much an issue especially when you use quick set cement, which hardens much faster. So if you had used normal concrete it would set much faster than what most hobbyists would need as most of us DIY cnc machines take a couple of months and if you start with the base, by the time you would use it, it would have already dried to be dimensionally stable. There is also variations in concrete like concrete that takes far less water as for example, which would make it more dimensionally stable. Just want to add this that sky scrapers get made out of this stuff so if its good enough for that then it would be good enough for me. You can also add more adjustment like have a plate where you can add shims to that then bolts to the rails, so this would eliminate the issue if you changed a few mm's over time you can then just after a couple of months just measure and add shims if need be. I'd much rather use concrete and adjust twice over than mix a massive amount of expensive epoxy which also changes over time and needs to be measured again in a couple of months, so either way you'd measure again. In the case of concrete because it's so cheap you can add much more mass and rigidity to the frame than you could realistically with epoxy. In machining having mass gives better cuts overall. This is just my 2 cents, but it's worth looking into.
AMAZING VIDEO but... For others making similar projects. The author is not completely correct that "Any epoxy brand will work. The key here is to find a slow cure time epoxy." He is right about the slow cure, but you will get much better results by using a low viscosity laminating resin. If the epoxy has a 1:1 mixing ratio, that is a red flag and means that a filler has been added to the resin system for convenient mixing. A proper resin system will come with less hardener than resin, and will need to be combined in different amounts according to the manufactures guidelines. West Systems is the brand name choice, but there are also cheaper options. US Composites offers a comparable product that is much cheaper. The boat industry is probably the biggest user of composite materials, and you should be able to find a low viscosity laminating resin at any boat supply store/website. Thanks for making this great video!
@@MaquinerosCNC a lot of free labor, and about $100 in epoxy I'd say. The aluminum mold was probably $150, and lots of sweat equity machining them to shape
keep in mind. epoxy doesnt like to stick to aluminium either, so. keep in mind. that it will close up the alu frame,. so make sure the alu is secured to the frame sturdy and secure.
Nice work! I was thinking cast the base from Portland cement mortar, then paint it with dyed epoxy resin, or another type of resin. It would be cheaper and do the same thing. I don't know if you could make it look as good.
Your final result looks great! However there are a few issues I have with your video. Firstly the gloves aren’t for clean up primarily but for safety! Epoxy can get pretty nasty and the last place you want that stuff to be is on your body! Secondly, to ensure that the epoxy is mixed the right way, you have to mix both parts first! Than the sand and dye. It could be that your result works for you, but usually there is a huge possibility to fuck up. Also, if your epoxy is slow you have the time to do it right. And lastly, this is just a preferred method of mine, if you use a filler for creating the round corners you could perfected those even further. Still a pretty nice video and I appreciate the work you put into it
I moved onto other projects and things in life. But I thought I'd share the process I learned so others can build on top of it, and keep making it better. Thanks for watching
Very strange load tests, the real machine and half do not. Epoxy granite is justified only by its weight, weight allows you to reduce the frequency of personal vibrations of the structure. But metal is much more justified in this, if the melting of steel and cast iron is not available, then it is worth considering bronze and brass. The simplest and most affordable base for a CNC machine is a square welded steel profile fill in concrete. Simple and cheap.
Nice video! Clearly and logically presented. A few questions. Have you thought of introducing aggregate into the mold as you have a base of epoxy and sand mix in it. In other words use the aggregate as a filler. As you have the vibrating table working the aggregate will sink into the mix quite easily. Second thought. As you have shown that you have access to a vacuum pump how about simply making a vacuum bag out of window setting tape and heavy polyethylene house vapour barrier? Connecting supplies in the form of bag to hose are available in a few places. The pump will only draw the air out of your bag. Your test sample that foamed up most likely never had an actual vacuum drawn but was in a leaking chamber. When I'm doing vacuum veneering I generally use a shop vac to evacuate the bulk of the air and even a small shop vac can create a quite useful vacuum. Useful enough that pretty much anybody that can fold up a heavy plastic bag can get this accomplished. In a pinch good quality duct tape can be used to create and seal up a polyethylene bag.
Filling the mold first will not work as the epoxy will not properly coat the aggregate. With a proper filler mix, which would include larger aggregate, the air cannot be drawn out using a vacuum.
This is an absolutely fantastic video. I do have one question. I’ve already begun the build for my own CNC and the base has been completed already. Would it be a good compromise for me to build an epoxy granite base with a few studs sticking out of the top for me to bolt the aluminum gram to it?
It will work, you can even make 'boards' of this stuff and bolt them vs a whole pour, but that is reducing how well they work. Large machines will typically fill their box beams with cement or something like this. the better the interface to the alu the better this will work, so you might want to use something to fill any gaps, like a thin layer of rhino liner or caulk, then clamp it tight, so it can absorb those vibrations and send them into the absorption material.
Another Idea for cheap Shaker Table. Not tested so far. Use Bass-Loudspeakers and Amplifier. Feed them with any kind of Frequency. Mount one or more Speaker under the Table and play with the Signals to get best Results...
Great video. Just one small point. It may seem obvious, but you should have emphasised that the mould should be levelled very carfully before pouring the mix.
Isn't play sand mostly quartz? Wouldn't decomposed granite have been a better choice since the granite rocks were removed from the mix? Also how well does the machine work, can it handle steel?
Yup, I believe so, perhaps epoxy quartz would have been a better name for it, although I stuck with epoxy granite, since people are more familiar with that name. It was actually a machine base for a 3 axis microscope, but given how stiff it was, I'm sure a small spindle could have been mounted to it. Thanks for watching!
I would avoid decomposed granite myself, because it might continue to decompose over time. The granite contains quartz grains, feldspars and some mica. The feldspars and mica decomposes and take up extra space. They become clays and oxides. The Quartz in the sand is very inert, being Silicon Oxide already.
At the start: "RUclips, why are you recommending this?"
By the end: "My 3D printers are gonna be really heavy in about a week."
Haha, can't wait to see the ultra beefed up 3D printer
I thought the same ahahaha
My internal dialogue: that looks so slick, need to do that as base for my 3D printer. Imagining wife’s question: why did you do that, you can’t even lift it? Me: Ummm. Doesn’t it look great?
If you use a printer that doesn't move the bed, you can make a heated bed using an aluminum plate and some underfloor heating elements, then pour the epoxy over it.
@@Krmpfpks the appearance is awesome right? Also works great for speakers since it's heavy and acoustically inert, raises the WAF by quite a bit in my experience.
In our plant we have two Hardinage CNC lathe that machine metals to 0.0001” tolerance the beds are made from epoxy granite. Good material.
Your machine looks like it would be very strong and stiff. I like your explanation on modulus and dampening.
A great video! Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. Here are some ideas I hope you find helpful.
1) To eliminate the cosmetic surface bubbles you can paint the mold with a coating of straight epoxy first. You could also color this epoxy to form a "gel coat" effect. Let it set up, or gel, before poring in the rest of the epoxy. If it isn't set enough, the epoxy granite mixture will "wash" it off. If it gets too hard it won't bond chemically with the epoxy granite and may flake off later.
2) De-gas the epoxy sand mixture in the bucket with your vacuum. That would help get rid of all of the little bubbles. Then be careful when you fill your mold to not create too many new bubbles. The bubbles you make pouring the epoxy into the mold will be large and those will rise to the surface quickly.
3) Packing ratio. Others have mentioned this. If you want to reduce the percentage of epoxy, you need to have different sized particles in your solids. If they are all the same size you will have a packing ratio of only about 64%. Mixing together sands of different grain sizes can increase you packing ratio and decrease your epoxy usage.
4) Epoxy does not bond to polyethylene. You can make your mold out of polyethylene as it machines nicely. There is also poly tape that can be used to to make a non-stick surface. Wax is still a good idea, but if you miss a spot it wouldn't matter much.
5) Sand blasting your aluminum parts is the gold standard for getting good adhesion with epoxy. Do it shortly before casting to prevent the aluminum from having time to grow a new oxide layer, and wear gloves to prevent contaminating the surface with skin oils.
6) Gloves: Wear them whenever you are using epoxy. Look up "epoxy contact dermatitis" to see why it is important.
Replied because simply clicking a thumbs up doesn't do this comment justice. Good post JH. Should be up there, right at the top ^^^^^^^^^
you probably dont give a shit but does someone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account..?
I stupidly lost the password. I would love any help you can offer me
@Declan Thaddeus I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
@Declan Thaddeus It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my account !
@Tyson Neil You are welcome xD
Might I suggest drying the sand by baking it in a oven for a while in my limited experience with resin and fillers moisture in the filler really messes with strength and leaves tiny bubbles in the material due to a chemical reaction.
I am thinking about using Aluminium oxide, but I am not sure if the epoxy will be able to bond on it, considering a welding require to break the oxide layer prior to have a good bonding.But then since epoxy stick with pretty much anything, I hope it could be an option.
@@richardphatthenguyen195 it will stick no problem. Just dry it out by baking it at 100c for a few hours and mix as soon as it cools.
You can buy plasterers sand, or kiln dried sand. It has already gone through the process of moisture removal, as long as it's stored properly.
@@CozzyKnowsBest Hey thanks,
I was just under impression that aluminium oxide would be best, but figured out it might be a piece of mind to go straight for your reccomended products. Currently I have 30kg of play sand that also lays around in the house for a while. I might give it also a try like Adam did. Though I am looking for Epoxy seller around Montreal, will be the toughest part.
@@richardphatthenguyen195 Montreal is a huge city. It will not be hard to find epoxy locally.
I just watched a special on submarines and carbon black as a dye adds to sound and vibration deadening by multitudes very interestingly I'll be using it if I try that that's actually why submarines are black even though blue would be better so as no to be seen and a palm sander on its side vibrates the bubbles out just fine vibrating it along the sides of mold
This is my favorite video to be honest was so excited to see more of it please do a update of sorts
Great video! I'm planning on reinforcing and expanding my small milling machines column and base and make the switch to linear rails on all 3 axis. This information is very helpful.
He did a good job, but is using way too much resin. It will provide poor mechanical properties.CASTINITE
Awesome project! Would it not be better to make the exoskeleton out of cast iron?🤔
I have done this with my own recipes and here are some tips and tricks.
1) Pre-heat the sand and resin which helps to speed up curing and removing bubbles as it lowers the viscosity of the resin. ( I didn't get any bubbles without using a vacuum chamber)
2) I mix sand, pea gravel, and crushed rock for mine as it uses less resin (Approx 5-10% resin to other ingredients)
3) Fiberglass resin also works extremely well and this is what I use (40$ at Walmart for a gallon).
4) If you want it to look professional, mix in charcoal powder to give it an extremely black coloring and nice surface finish. I made my powder from aquarium charcoal in a blender.
For my next tests, I will be mixing glass fiber along with the other ingredients to try and increase the composite strength.
I was blown away by this polymer concrete's performance and will not be going back to regular concrete.
absolutely fantastic technical video, good job
Well researched excellent tutorial. God Bless you.
No granite in this here video. Should be renamed "epoxy rock sand and dye" lol. Great idea! I always see mini used lathes without the base or with diy table bases. With this idea one could make a lathe base that would have a built-in coolant sink. Great idea!
the rocks were granite variety. people need to use their ear holes more.
This is awesome!
btw is it possible to machine a granite epoxy structure after it has cured and without it cracking?
I was able to drill the material pretty easily (for internal wiring) with a concrete bit, but I never tried machining it. I would imagine the sand would destroy the end mill pretty quickly, but it might work for a bit?
Better to embed aluminum or steel in the material where you want to machine, and machine the metal after it cures.
Isn't lead alloys closest to the upper right corner of the chart? Let's take a quick look.
Pros: cheap, easy to cast, easy to machine, very heavy. Cons: very heavy, not strong, the weak alloys dent easily, the strong(er) ones are brittle, oxides of lead and many of the alloying elements are toxic.
I used 200 x 200 x 12mm steel weldmet, then filled with expoy granite mix.
Completely dead :)
extremely good video!!
I really enjoyed this, thanks for sharing!
#Peter#Brown has experimented with dies before and found that black pigment can be obtained using crushed charcoal, which works really well with epoxy. Should be cheaper than the dye you mentioned. 😁
Is there a mixing technique which will introduce less air?
The aluminium mold alone costs more than my whole machine 🤯
Try to use choke and expanded argila.
mix the epoxy b4 the sand
Tim Copeland I agree. All epoxies I've used says to mix part A and B before adding any filler etc.
But it was a very Beautiful pandemic inducing machine good job on building a beautiful piece of equipment and for getting the whole world’s knickers in a bunch and implementing the best policy ever social distancing.
hey Adam does it mean that we will build pyramids again?
More,more,more,please. Fantastic build and awsome video. Thank you for your generosity.
If anyone is looking for large quantities of black iron oxide, Alpha chemicals sells 10lb bags of it for $10
@Triple M well that was kinda random.....
First off great video. Very informative.
I worked on an R&D project using Metal Injection Molding. The goal was to maximize the density of the metal balls and minimize the plastic filler. I learned that if you have fairly uniform diameter balls, the amount of plastic was about 17% (by volume) to have a mixture that had no interstitial voids with the minimum plastic. This 17% figure will always be the same for any mixture using uniform ball (or rocks here) size regardless of the size. Somewhat counter-intuitive to me. This would seem to be applicable if you assume that the sand grains are fairly uniform in size.
You can get a denser mixture by using significantly larger rocks with the sand filling the space between the rocks.
Here in Florida, I would put the fillers in the oven to drive out any moisture.
that's because of the nature of packing spheres. Sand grains can pack much tighter because they aren't spheres.
Nitpick: your design criteria was all about the material science of epoxy granite but my layman's assessment of your prototyping was what looked/poured best. While air gaps are probably not great, how can you know if some ratio with air bubbles might be much better than what you went with in the end? You didn't test the characteristics you chose it for via any means I saw: vibration resistance and stiffness. Thoughts?
A bit harsh perhaps, but I agree. The design aims are mixed up. If impeccable surface finish is important then use a gel coat or post process in the old fashioned way with filler and sanding. If a very specific mix of rigidity and vibrational damping is top priority, then they are mutually contradictory. A rigid material does not damp; a damping material cannot be rigid. There was no evaluation of the result.
@@raykent3211 Whoops. Didn't mean to be harsh, just objective! There was a lot of background given on the material choice and explaining the challenging blend of properties you mention: rigidity and damping. I guess I interpreted this as a technical focus, so it surprised me that none of the introduction material came back up during evaluation. That's all. Maybe it's sufficient to say "this material was known a priori to be great and thus as long as we use it, all that matters is the practical aspect of forming it well and having it smooth." Like if "wood" had the right property, then perhaps that's sufficient and an evaluation between maple, walnut, or pine don't matter. Dunno, but wondered the author's thoughts.
@@johnhendy1281 it's certainly an intriguing subject and not easy! My only reference is acoustic damping. The key seems to be near-continuous impedance variation. Realistically, the sound hits a low impedance (not stiff) material to avoid reflection and progresses through layers of increasing stiffness ending with maybe concrete. It's a matter of absorbing energy and minimizing reflection and propagation. But the energy can only be absorbed if the source is allowed to move, which for many machines is bad. I doubt if anyone would want a cnc spindle mounted in anything less than a perfectly rigid way.
@@raykent3211 With machines, there is already high impulse vibration in the metal. This is a bit unlike acoustic damping, where you need to pull the vibrations out of the less dense air and have to progressively absorb into more dense materials.
The alu will carry the vibrations (usually unfortunately well). So by casting around the alu, the alu becomes a carrier to transfer to the absorber. This works similarly well with filling box beams. Though their outer surface can still carry some vibrations. If you imagine them trying to resonate, the semi-squish and mass of the super absorber material eats up all the inward pulses. That makes it extremely good at sapping any harmonics from growing.
Maybe I am assuming things incorrectly, but reducing air bubbles/pockets maximizes the density of the base, therefore adding more mass to lessen the vibrations. He most likely could just get away with having some air bubbles but if the final mixture can have better density and requires less variety of materials, it would simply be better to use the chosen material composition. And perhaps (could be really wrong) in extreme cases where excess vibrations are transmitted to the granite base, the pockets could act as stress risers potentially creating failure points, thus propagating cracks.
You don't need a shaker table, you can get an old SDS hammer drill for very cheap and it will make your hole workshop table shake like crazy
I think I've read your article on this about 10 times now. Great to see some videos too. A long-term review of the microscope / base would be interesting. Will keep watching for more videos.
Thanks for watching Aaron! I'll keep the videos coming.
@@AdamBenderwhy not adding fine rubber or foam aggregate with concrete and a urethane binder? Why aluminum not steel?
Why not add some chop strand fiberglass in there? that would really increase the strength
Very. Cool. Game. Changer. This also solves the problem of the DIY guy who wants to make huge machine tool frames but has no access to iron casting equipment. Awesome project and video. Added to many of my playlists. But also added to personal favorites.
••• Goes to garage to begin casting 8'-0" tall English wheel. •••
A few of my ideas...
step 1 mix just clear expoy and harder together brush spray into mold... let it tack up the us a heat gun to pop bubbles... on the surface of mold let it set up for several hours..
Step 2 mix epoxy with harder and black pigment or paint... spray over the clear expoy let it tack and use heat gun to pop bubbles repeat a few times on corners or vertical surfaces where you need thicker covage...let it dry or tack almost dry..
Step 3.. mix expoy part a b add optional dye then add sand.... the harder... apply with spreader or bondo spreader to mold 1/4 to 1/2 thick coat as a surface finish to finished faces.. let it dry
Step4 next day mix expoy with sand and some small gravel...fill mold up to 1/ 4 below desired depth...mix new top coat with expoy sand mix and Harder etc... to give smoother finish on under side
This is how I get flawless smooth expoy granite.
Step one and two in one step: Called Gelcoat.
This is a great method, those surface bubbles haunted me, sounds like your technique would eliminate that. Thanks for sharing!
Step 1 cut a hole in a box.
Thanks for this video. I've built a small vertical mill from aluminum, and the poor edge finish on cuts due to vibration is a real shame. This seems like a great approach for a small scale CNC mill
Some suggestions:
1. To improve mechanical characteristics, use
- a single digit percentage of epoxy
- an aggregate with significantly better packing density
- preferably grey cast iron or at least steel as reinforcing and interface members as its CTE matches that of the composite described above
2. Feel free to coat the inside of the mold w/ your material of choice (most of the time I use carbon-filled (i.e. toner powder) epoxy which gives a nice, shiny, smooth, jet black surface) before you start filling the mold w/ your actual mix. This way you don't have to factor in aesthetics even when you're supposed to design your composite to achieve the best mechanical properties.
3. Reinforcement might not even be necessary at all if your machine frame was designed to take advantage of the compressive strength of the composite, which can be brought up to 200+ MPa if you're open to using a more decent mix.
Machine tool manufacturers don't seem to bother reinforcing their frames.
4. Vibration is the way to go. Vacuum pumps don't take epoxy vapor particularly well.
If you arrange internal cooling to the aluminum frame, it is actually better than steel or cast iron, as it conducts heat 3 times faster, thus you are able to maintain a set temperature easily.
Agreed thats how the machine builder kern has machines with about 1 micron positioning tolerance
Hi sniperasys, could you elaborate on the "more decent mix" you mentioned to have a greater comp. strength?
@@JaakkoF Hei Jaakko, voitko suomentaa tämän neljän kohdan ohjeistuksen ensimmäisen kohdan? En ymmärrä kahta ensimmäistä ranskalaista viivaa.
@@wuzhenick I'd imagine a much bigger gradient of aggregate size? Like a good concrete 🤔
being careful not to mix in air when mixing will help. Mixing larger batches so your paddle mixer can be kept below the surface.
great video, subscribed!
Hello Adam!
Good choice for the base but I was more interested in the precision aluminium sections and how you went about procuring them.
Perhaps you could try the electro magnetic vibrator ( without a motor and eccentric weights ), which have a small amplitude of vibration about 1.6 mm, also used by construction people.
Also you could use silica flour as fines. This and the sand should be dry as the heat generated will release some steam.
Anyway you've been acquiring the skills as you went along.
Best wishes!
Outstanding content. In 2 part polymers with fillers, I have always been told you need to mix part a and b together then mix in the filler to prevent differential adsorption of one part in the filler (sand in your case) which would inhibit a full cure. You're method seems nice since you're not rushed by the curing epoxy during mixing. Did you notice any softness in the end product?
That's what I would do too. But I think the filler proportion here might be too high?
Great work here!
You inspired me to think of a couple things that might help.
1) a cheap shaker motor is easy to make: just use any motor, bur on the shaft you put an imbalanced load.
2) Instead of using an impossibly big vacuum tank, use the atmosphere itself by doing the opposite: mix the epoxy inside a pressure tank. That's way smaller.
When you're done mixing releasing the air bubbles that were at high pressure should vent off easily into 1 atmosphere. When you pour it take care to not create bubbles. They shaker table should help with the rest of any trapped air.
yeah looks like you may have had some moisture troubles. And a vacuum chamber is a good idea but only vac each epoxy side A-B separate before mixing. This will help remove a lot of the air bubbles and when you mix do so gently to avoid adding air. For the best results after drying all other materials, vac A-B parts separately, you could pour some material into mold (not all), (I would pour epoxy in the mold 1st then add the rest)mix epoxy, pour and then add the rest of the material, stir all together gently to avoid adding air and then put mold in a pressure chamber to around 55psi up to 65psi... this will absolutely give you the best results.. I highly recommend Not Pouring one part of the epoxy in the mold adding filler and then adding the other part of epoxy!!!! Epoxy should be mix completely by itself before adding any of the other materials to it.. I think you have a great idea I really do, but I gotta say you went about mixing it all wrong bud.. resins can be really fussy, sometimes an out rite pain in the rear.
A pressure chamber would have been great for this build! Unfortunately I did not have one big enough for this mold...
@@AdamBender Preston is correct. Mix the liquids first and draw a vacuum on that mixture. You have to remove the moisture or you will get a lot of internal voids and poor strenght.
Yes, degas the resins 1st and pour enough into the bucket to avoid sucking air in while mixing. Also, bake the sand & grit to release moisture before use. Also part of the goal is different grit sizes to scatter & absorb different frequencies.
learning a lot about using concrete from machines. Thank you for sharing your trials with us.
I have a bit of experience with concrete, what you might call decorative or glass reinforced concrete...play sand is a big no no!! Its been tumbled so its not scratchy (for playing), but that means its round and does not properly lock together the concrete. Sharp sand is what you want....mason sand is super fine, but sharp and sold at any box hw store. Torpedo sand is more coarse and I am pretty sure that's what is in the tube sand bags, also sold all over.
also your mixing method, I think mixing the epoxy & other liquids and then slowly adding the sand would ensure a better mix on the epoxy. If you are that strapped for time, start with the liquid in the bucket & add the sand. The way you did it had to be a son of a bitch to mix!
Lastly, did you consider the use of glass reinforcement fibers / mesh? I have had great success with those is thin concrete that needed to be strong.
This is great information! If I ever make it again, I'll definitely try that sand type.
Also, glass or carbon fibers was on my list of things to try, but I never got around to it. I agree this would be a great way to add stiffness. I'm sure it would mix well too.
@@AdamBender Glad to share some knowledge! I might give this a go soon too. one thing I would check on: does carbon fiber get along with concrete? Glass is used because of its alkaline resistant, no idea if carbon fiber has similar resistance (my guess is, it does). Maybe throw fiberglass in for consideration, as it can be even stronger than carbon fiber (not by weight, but that's meaningless in this application).
secondly, adding fiber can be a bit tricky, especially with hand mixing and stiff mixes. Mixing the fiber in dry with the sand is a good idea, but do it slowly so you don't get concentrations of fiber. good luck
Ever look under a machine before and notice how pretty much all them are are set into grout? The stuff is basically non-toxic, non-shrink, same aggregate flexibility, voids fill and bubbles tamp out quickly, loss coefficient is within 10% of epoxy but young's modulus is almost 20x better than epoxy, easier to polish and dye, is designed to pull from molds, and can be had premixed for dirt cheap at the local Home Depot. I know the value of reinventing the wheel is priceless, but really, what's not to like?
Interesting idea! You could easily fill in the hollow voids in most cast iron bases with that material, I'm sure it would work pretty well. I have to admit, a strong driver for this cast base was also aesthetics in addition to the mechanical properties. Thanks for watching!
Very basic. And very correct. Not as interesting as epoxy right! But used by many machine tool manufacturers none the less.
Grout absorbs water?
@@mannycalavera121Only if it is standing in a puddle. Do you have a lot of standing water in your machine shop? Not me.
@@davidnaisuler5743 no but I have a lot of coolant in my CNC. It's porous, which makes it more prone to transmitting vibration as well as its fluid absorption and expansion/contraction.
It'd be fine as a deadener material maybe.
Thank you for the deep explanations. The use of rocks has an issue, that the surface of the rocks you used is very rough. So air can stay at the Rocks. Classic concrete has stones out of the river, they are round to eliptic and can withstand high pressure. The amount of air stuck at the rocks is smaller. And this rocks are very cheap and you can use less epoxy. Good for bigger projects.
Pea gravel...
Okay, so, radical option.
De-gas the epoxy before mixing in sand.
If you’re insistent upon sand, part A, dye, then part B, de-gas after mixing in part B but before pouring.
I used to work making cultured marble and granit. We used powder and resins. Mixed it for about 2 hours, added dye, and laid it on a glass top shaker table. We shook it over night. Very informative though, as I'm wanting to build my own machine with a 4th axis for vertical round grinding, vertical free turn, and of course as a mill.
So not granite, epoxy concrete. I think I would put chopped strand glass in it as well for added strength .
I am wondering if there will be problems with thermal expansion causing the aluminum and concrete to delaminate. Take your test block put a dial indicator on it and heat it up 100 degrees. Calculate the thermal expansion coefficient and compare that to aluminum. It will make an interesting video.
Chopped glass does not work well because of the sand filler
@@terrycapuano982 glass strands are used all the time in cement/concrete and in epoxy so why would it not work when concrete uses sand as a filler.
Super, super, super idea! I'm gonna build a mold for my 1k x 1k cnc router. You've opened my creative mind to endless structural possibilities with this option.
What about welding a rebar reinforced inner structure, along with the aggregate/epoxy mix? You could do smaller pours and let set. You could pour a whole table, layers at a time and finish off with mounting options to secure your rails to or whatever your machine desires to function. Rebar is cheap. You could also integrate fence posts for structural support and not have alot of money in it.
This idea has so much potential!
Thank you for this video!
A welded rebar internal structure would work great! I've never tried the multiple pour option, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. The epoxy will bond to itself without issue between pours
Just curios, why not use steel or aluminum as the mold and final base with the epoxy granite on the inside? Would this not provide the stiffness of steel and the epoxy granite vibration absorption? I am not a engineer, just curious if there would be any reasons why this would not be a good approach.
of course you can do that it just wouldn't look as stylish.
is there any reason to not have the epoxy granite as a show piece while providing vibration dampening?
Very interesting. Did you check for the flatness how true and absolutely flat is...?
Are plans for the rest of the CNC machine available? Also, I wonder if you could further reduce vibration by filling the hollow aluminum tubes with additional vibration dampening material.
Is there any way we can see your machine running?
you can also add carbon flakes (carbon fibers) to reinforce
My theory: using a vacuum chamber or high pressure to get the bubbles out will propably lead to maybe only epoxy filling the voids. You want the filler material as dense as possible though. Vibrating the material would be the best choice then I think. Your vibrator table seems to not be sufficient enough, maybe try a small electric motor with an offcenter weight on the shaft, and something to control the motor speed maybe. Would also be cheaper.
Only using sand is also not that great, since it still is kinda coarse. There's some basalt based grit that's used for filling the gaps between walkway stones, it has bigger particles (maybe 1/16") down to dust like particles. Should work nicely.
Hi. If you ever make another polymer concrete would be interesting to see if adding Graphite would make it stronger. According to experiment made by Tech Ingredients channel it should be 50% stronger. If you want to know more watch "Making Graphene could KILL you... but we did it anyway?!" at 41:00. Love you Machine BTW. 👍
Outstanding information, thank you. I now have the knowledge to make a proper base for my audio turntable (yes, I still play and prefer vinyl records) and my 3D printer.
good luck carrying those lol crtv style
Aha, this is the base for this :)
"Automated Measuring Microscope
This is the RapidSight, a 3 axis, automated measuring microscope we developed at MOXER. It sits on a custom designed mineral cast base, and boasts 4 high precision linear stages. Everything was custom designed, machined and programmed by the MOXER team"
Interesting!
Aluminum Hydroxide is a perfect filler, even with polyester resin, and it can be polished.
I haven't finished watching the whole video, but I'm thinking "I'm gonna build it!"
So when it comes to vibration dampening, did anyone ever compare this to the stuff typically used for setting machinery? Stuff like precision grout, or some of the metal based aggregate grouts, or something totally epoxy based like Loctite nordbak?
I would be curious how an epoxy and precision grout would behave. Interesting, would be cool to see some data on vibration dampening effect.
Your high sand version must not have much mass/weight compared to granite or lead ballast. Also, bolting any machine to the concrete floor is THE BEST vibration prevention.
Sorry, but I think you're off on a wild, expensive, OCD fantasy here.
So basically concrete made with epoxy rather than Portland cement. I’m guessing the epoxy is more flexible than cement. I can see any flexing of the aluminum inside causing cracks and failure of the concrete.
For epoxy selection maybe try using a deep pour epoxy? Not sure how it would effect your tests, but it has a far longer cure time that what you were using. 3 days to cure. There are some epoxy out there that cure even slower
WOW!
That's just one of the best explaining videos I've ever seen! If not THE BEST!
Thank you so much for your great scientific work and for sharing it with everyone!
Just great. Cheers mate!
I notice the bucket is recommending against using “baby” in your composite machine base … was this adequately explored during the design phase?
Try this super new material called concrete. 😉 It's easier and way less expensive for little DIY projects like this one. You can tint it, and if you wax it it looks like a million bucks.
That "skeleton" is guaranteed to transmit vibrations no matter how much you sink it into something else (even rebar does): bad idea. Professional machines use a lightweight steel base and Silentblock bolt fittings. Silentblock fittings are inexpensive. But perhaps the real motivation for over-complicating it is in that last phrase you said.
Concrete poorly tolerates any type of stress other than compression so you'll need to make the part that you're making out of it oversized. And any design mistake can easily lead to concrete cracking.
@@0fg4 Your probably confusing OPC for concrete. We're not talking about building something the size of a bridge here. That tiny little thing sits flat on a table. Even P100 can take it without a sweat.
@@mururoa7024 I'm no expert, but I believe concrete has mostly the same properties as OPC, only stronger. Of course if you're making a CNC engraver concrete will do. But so will do a bare aluminium frame. But if you're making a steel cutting lathe, it most likely will crack over time.
@@0fg4 Cement is brittle, concrete is not. They're different. He's making a "automated vision measurement" system, not a lathe. The only things that make concrete crack are corroding rebar, water infiltration freezing, extreme temperature changes (surface), and poor quality/wrong mix, not vibrations. There's a block of concrete inside your washing machine and you know how much that thing vibrates. 😉 Concrete will only transmit vibrations more than epoxy-granite, hence the use of Silentblocks.
@@mururoa7024 Concrete is brittle and requires reinforcement to not break under any type of stress except compression (that's what you wrote). While reinforcing against bending is pretty straightforward, reinforcing against torsion or combined stress may be tricky. Vibrations, depending on their parameters, the shape of a block and the way it is supported, may also break concrete if they create high enough local forces.
if you look on your graph you'd see that concrete/cement would have been a much better option as it's dirt cheap and does exactly what you need and you can add glass fibers and metal mesh to make it reinforced concrete which is more than strong enough to what you need.
This is a good idea! I have seems few videos on RUclips where someone uses concrete as a base. I wonder why it's not more prevalent in the industrial machines, perhaps it's not as dimensionally stable?
@@AdamBender near full drying of concrete takes 28 days per inch of thickness. This is not as much an issue especially when you use quick set cement, which hardens much faster. So if you had used normal concrete it would set much faster than what most hobbyists would need as most of us DIY cnc machines take a couple of months and if you start with the base, by the time you would use it, it would have already dried to be dimensionally stable. There is also variations in concrete like concrete that takes far less water as for example, which would make it more dimensionally stable. Just want to add this that sky scrapers get made out of this stuff so if its good enough for that then it would be good enough for me. You can also add more adjustment like have a plate where you can add shims to that then bolts to the rails, so this would eliminate the issue if you changed a few mm's over time you can then just after a couple of months just measure and add shims if need be. I'd much rather use concrete and adjust twice over than mix a massive amount of expensive epoxy which also changes over time and needs to be measured again in a couple of months, so either way you'd measure again. In the case of concrete because it's so cheap you can add much more mass and rigidity to the frame than you could realistically with epoxy. In machining having mass gives better cuts overall. This is just my 2 cents, but it's worth looking into.
Was very disappointed there wasn't a cut to someone hitting the cymbal.
AMAZING VIDEO but...
For others making similar projects. The author is not completely correct that "Any epoxy brand will work. The key here is to find a slow cure time epoxy."
He is right about the slow cure, but you will get much better results by using a low viscosity laminating resin. If the epoxy has a 1:1 mixing ratio, that is a red flag and means that a filler has been added to the resin system for convenient mixing. A proper resin system will come with less hardener than resin, and will need to be combined in different amounts according to the manufactures guidelines. West Systems is the brand name choice, but there are also cheaper options. US Composites offers a comparable product that is much cheaper. The boat industry is probably the biggest user of composite materials, and you should be able to find a low viscosity laminating resin at any boat supply store/website.
Thanks for making this great video!
are you advertising for total boat epoxy?
That mold seems quite reusable...
That was the idea with all the plates that screw together. I made a few bases on this mold tool without too much issue
@@AdamBender how much one of this awesome bases can cost?
@@MaquinerosCNC a lot of free labor, and about $100 in epoxy I'd say. The aluminum mold was probably $150, and lots of sweat equity machining them to shape
keep in mind. epoxy doesnt like to stick to aluminium either, so. keep in mind. that it will close up the alu frame,. so make sure the alu is secured to the frame sturdy and secure.
why do you call this a granite, just call that "sand and rocks glued with epoxy and colored black pigments".
Nice work! I was thinking cast the base from Portland cement mortar, then paint it with dyed epoxy resin, or another type of resin. It would be cheaper and do the same thing. I don't know if you could make it look as good.
Your final result looks great!
However there are a few issues I have with your video.
Firstly the gloves aren’t for clean up primarily but for safety! Epoxy can get pretty nasty and the last place you want that stuff to be is on your body!
Secondly, to ensure that the epoxy is mixed the right way, you have to mix both parts first! Than the sand and dye. It could be that your result works for you, but usually there is a huge possibility to fuck up. Also, if your epoxy is slow you have the time to do it right.
And lastly, this is just a preferred method of mine, if you use a filler for creating the round corners you could perfected those even further.
Still a pretty nice video and I appreciate the work you put into it
Hi, what if I replace the epoxy with resin? Since resin is way more cheaper than epoxy.
Ahhh, so this is how they make the granite base for CMM/Vision machines... NEato
Close, but not nearly as much resin content as it would make the castings too unstable.
Why did you stop doing this machine? I cannot find you on the internet anymore.
I moved onto other projects and things in life. But I thought I'd share the process I learned so others can build on top of it, and keep making it better.
Thanks for watching
Very strange load tests, the real machine and half do not.
Epoxy granite is justified only by its weight, weight allows you to reduce the frequency of personal vibrations of the structure. But metal is much more justified in this, if the melting of steel and cast iron is not available, then it is worth considering bronze and brass.
The simplest and most affordable base for a CNC machine is a square welded steel profile fill in concrete. Simple and cheap.
100% tak!
hello.congralations What kind of a sand was it.and what happens if i use cement with iron rods instead of epoxy ?
Bro please if you don't mind i have a problem with materials not available please give me any suggestion for me 😔
Amazing videos man and thanks a lot for sharing all the hard work you have done to save us all a lot of time and pain! :)
Hi. Great Video. You should check out Silimix 282. This mixture is exactly made for EG. Just add Epoxy.
That's awesome, had no idea that product existed. Great suggestion!
Whats wrong with concrete?
Blue metal, sand, cement. Some steel reo if desired.
Nice video! Clearly and logically presented. A few questions. Have you thought of introducing aggregate into the mold as you have a base of epoxy and sand mix in it. In other words use the aggregate as a filler. As you have the vibrating table working the aggregate will sink into the mix quite easily. Second thought. As you have shown that you have access to a vacuum pump how about simply making a vacuum bag out of window setting tape and heavy polyethylene house vapour barrier? Connecting supplies in the form of bag to hose are available in a few places. The pump will only draw the air out of your bag. Your test sample that foamed up most likely never had an actual vacuum drawn but was in a leaking chamber. When I'm doing vacuum veneering I generally use a shop vac to evacuate the bulk of the air and even a small shop vac can create a quite useful vacuum. Useful enough that pretty much anybody that can fold up a heavy plastic bag can get this accomplished. In a pinch good quality duct tape can be used to create and seal up a polyethylene bag.
Filling the mold first will not work as the epoxy will not properly coat the aggregate. With a proper filler mix, which would include larger aggregate, the air cannot be drawn out using a vacuum.
We use thin stainless steel for moulds, and the resin dosen't stick to it, it's just pealed off once it's set.
this shit is like peanut butter. how the fuck is trapped air going to go anywhere in 48 hours.
This is an absolutely fantastic video. I do have one question. I’ve already begun the build for my own CNC and the base has been completed already. Would it be a good compromise for me to build an epoxy granite base with a few studs sticking out of the top for me to bolt the aluminum gram to it?
It will work, you can even make 'boards' of this stuff and bolt them vs a whole pour, but that is reducing how well they work. Large machines will typically fill their box beams with cement or something like this.
the better the interface to the alu the better this will work, so you might want to use something to fill any gaps, like a thin layer of rhino liner or caulk, then clamp it tight, so it can absorb those vibrations and send them into the absorption material.
Another Idea for cheap Shaker Table. Not tested so far. Use Bass-Loudspeakers and Amplifier. Feed them with any kind of Frequency. Mount one or more Speaker under the Table and play with the Signals to get best Results...
Or just use bass shakers designed for exactly that
Thank you very much for sharing your work. You have put lot of time and effort to educate people like me. Keep up your good work. Good luck.
Thanks for the info. Would “green sand” that they use for casting moulds be a viable option as it seems finer than most regular sands?
You can vac the epoxy after mixing but before you pour.
Very cool, have you done any kind of rigidity testing to see if it works as well as on paper?
Do you add some carbone and plastic to the x and z frame too? I guess granite is too heavy and would defeat the purpus of stabelizing the structure?
What?
1. It's not real granite
2. (real) granite is the way to go for stability and precision
Great video. Just one small point. It may seem obvious, but you should have emphasised that the mould should be levelled very carfully before pouring the mix.
Hello, its really good effort, thank you for sharing, do you publish video on milling ?
Your ratio of rocks to sand was too high. You'd have to look at spherical packing. might want like... 90/10 sand rocks or bigger. I think.
Thank you Adam for this very intresting video.
Isn't play sand mostly quartz? Wouldn't decomposed granite have been a better choice since the granite rocks were removed from the mix? Also how well does the machine work, can it handle steel?
Yup, I believe so, perhaps epoxy quartz would have been a better name for it, although I stuck with epoxy granite, since people are more familiar with that name.
It was actually a machine base for a 3 axis microscope, but given how stiff it was, I'm sure a small spindle could have been mounted to it.
Thanks for watching!
I would avoid decomposed granite myself, because it might continue to decompose over time. The granite contains quartz grains, feldspars and some mica. The feldspars and mica decomposes and take up extra space. They become clays and oxides. The Quartz in the sand is very inert, being Silicon Oxide already.
although calling it granite...hmmhh
get granite sand if you want.
This is the only video I have ever given a thumbs up. People should be required to watch this prior to uploading instructional videos. Thanks man.
Your finished product is a work of art.
Excellent presentation, result and video documentation. Thank you.
thanks for watching Craig