Barrels & Twist Rates | AB101 Pt.6
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
- Many people don't understand me when I say that a particular barrel is "better for long range" or is "better suited to 25m benchrest". Surely an accurate 25m barrel would replicate its accuracy at longer ranges? That is not always the case, and this video explains why.
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This was an extremely clear and concise explanation of spin stabilization and the potential problems with over-stabilization that occur and it even applies well to powder guns at long range.
I am a machinist. Old school manual. A common mistake in machining crowns is to indicate off the outside of the barrel. A crown should be machined in the chuck not hanging out. It should be indicated on the lands AND grooves. With of course care to be taken in not induce internal compression.
Rl Badger please explain "machined in the chuck and not hanging out". If you indicate on the lands and the groves and these two are different how do you reconcile? Thanks.
@Eric H. The Goal, as I understand, is for the crown relief machining to be concentric with the inside of the barrel. Two parts Badger indicates. 1. "Indicate off the lands and grooves" Process where you measure the concentricity of the cutting tool with respect to the inside of the barrel. 2. Minimize the flexure of the barrel during high cutting forces, by holding the barrel in the chuck close to the crown, and not protruding. Last point - Badger indicated, don't squeeze the chuck excessively tight around the crown, as this may also damage it.
The only reason so called machinists indicate of the od is because it is easier you are 100% correct seen lots of barrels ruined by idiots that call themselves a gunsmith had one of mine done that way you could see the run out on the crown with your eye
Very interesting and I will definitely watch again to absorb everything. I am enjoying this series tremendously.
Well after the second viewing I think I have about grasped the majority of it. I am pleased that you have taken your time to do this work Matt, it is nice to have an understanding of what happens when we use our rifles. Thanks again and good luck.
What a great educational video series for all airgun enthusiasts, beginner and veteran alike. Thanks, Matt. Jess
Thank you for making a very informative & well-described series
Amazing video thank you for a great lesson. I know so much more about rifling and twist rates now. This will definitely help me with future purchases. And shooting longer distances.
I happened upon your website by accident but I just wanted to say it's been very educational as well as entertaining. In other words "you done good".
Matt, thank you for tackling such hard topics with such clarity. You contribute tremendously to this hobby, God bless.
Great video, I really learn an enormous amount of information from watching your channel. I never knew about the ratio on a rifle barrel, and pellet trajectory, but you hit the mark by your easy to follow and simple way to understand. Thanks.
I subscribe to many air gun You Tube channels for entertainment, but you entertain and educate as well, thanks for all your hard work , keep it up .
everytime i saw your notification it overwhelms me...keep posting bro. nice work
Glad you back with the topic, its been months since last part ...
Very informative, Matt ;-)
Good instructions. I did have to watch it twice,..but I found that there a few questions answered here. Now I know why my rifle had a couple of minor problems.
Thanks for this.
Great explanation of the minute dynamics of speed and twist rates. A third dimension seems very important weight specific pellets matched to specific barrel is as important as barrel dynamics as well.
An extremely difficult topic however you do an excellent job of explaining it. I do understand much more now. Thank You. I enjoy all of your video's .
Great stuff Matt keep it up. you get the message out there instead of keeping it to yourself.
Wonderful series and lots of effort behind learning it and explaining it to ppl like us stay blessed buddy
Congrats from Sao Paulo Brazil. Very import topic and deep subjects with always great explanations from an expert. Learning so much from you! Thank you so much!
Great video, I am starting to understand just how much is involved in airguns, thank you so much, --Joe
What a great series. Thanks!
sumamente interesantes los conceptos que expones sobre los factores previps a la balistica interna, intermedia y terminal
felicidades y espero que hagas mas vodeos con aspectos tecnicos y tecnologicos saludos desde MEXICO
Thanks for such a nice video! I am new to Air guns and got my 1st one last week. It is a Huntsman Regal XL and I love it. This Video put much light on a lot of questions I had about barrels and pellet fight, thank you!
Excellent accurate thorough information. Very very well done.
Some very good points there well laid out and informative video, nice 1.
we have ben taylor to thank for the smooth twist barrel, FX bought the rights to it. sorry for being a pedant, but he's the real genius. love your video's by the way, please don't think me rude, you happen to be one of the best channels for information regarding air rifles and enjoy your content greatly. keep up the good work and again sorry for if i came across as a twat, just love me a genius englishman. love from cornwall
James Marriott exactly what I was about to say
Knew Ben Taylor, Dave Theobald from Theoben well when I worked at Airgun World mag for many years. Fx Boss and Royale are really descended from the Rapid 7 because of Ben but obviously with redesign. Excellent work Matt, love the videos.
From what I have read about the “smooth twist” rifling method, it seems to be a derivative of the gain twist rifling used by several companies during the earliest years of the American Civil War. The best known firearms using gain twist were the Colt Army and Navy revolvers. Another time for the saying about nothing new under the sun.
Thanks Matt it's crazy how much I've learned from you. Just put the stock valve return spring back in the Fx Impact with a 600mm barrel and your slugger kit. The kit is great but like you said if you're running low reg pressure and a 600mm the stronger spring is were the magic is. Yes instantly I was able to literally hear myself power tuning the Impact right to the point were the DB level drops and the gun smooths out. Feels great I'll find out how it groups later. Thank you Matt.
Deep rifling or more grove rifling also helps to reduce spin in flight.. They create sort of paddle like fins on the side of the pellet and these fins grab air that is passing by and causes the rotation to slow..
I really learned a lot of this. I'm a new person in the airgun world so this is very helpfull
Well now i am sinking by your knowledge, deep knowledge , perfect dude.
Thanks so much
Time to note again.
thank you so much for this series ........ learning a lot!
clear and understandable , thanks a lot for this amazing explaination 👍👍👍
Great info man. Excellent videos.
Thanks for all the info, will help a lot.
Hey Matt, thanks for what you do. I am really thankful for the info you put out here and the entertainment I get watching you hunt. I bought my first PCP last April. Bought it from the same guy I bought my 1st air rifle from, 1st was an HW 97K 20cal. I moved up to an HW100, 22 cal. It is the most amazing gun I have ever owned or shot. I have had some excellent training and instructors over the years and done a bit of shooting. Question is can the HW 100 have the hammer adjusted to prevent the rebound and save air and be more consistant? Thanks for your time, Don sanders
,
Thank you for this education. I enjoyed this video.
Great informational videos. Thank you.
The guy has followed has passion... Thanks bro...informative video.
Excellent explanation! Thank you! It would be great if you could give an explanation heap rates for different types of bullets at a different step rifling (twist), such as full-bodied pellets JSB Beast 1.05 g / H&N piledriver 1.36 g, depending on the speed. This will allow some shooters understand that there are no bad bullets and barrel there are used different speeds.
Great video and fruitful information... I think it is not complicated or you have explained it well....
thank you very much and waiting the cal. Sellection video...
really interesting and good help. Thank you
Hi Matt, would ever consider doing a start to finish set of video like this on center fire and rim fire cartridges. Teach us about Throat's, neck, free boar ???, carbon rings, ojive...ect average pressure. You brought us great info on dynamic/ bolistics. Can you do the same for center fire. Everyone just shoots and teaches us many things, but I want the nerdy stuff. Thank you
Very informative and correct information my friend. Another thing to consider talking about spin rates is that the actual speed of the spin induced on the pellet is not linear in relationship to it's exit speed. Let's say you have a relatively fast spinrate 1:12 shooting at 650fps. Then you tune your gun to shoot the same pellet at 850fps , the spin rate induced isn't just 30% faster (increase in speed). But spins much faster, I don't have the accurate math in front of me, but it is a exponential curve. Also the faster something spins going trough the air, you have to account for spin drift. As well as Magnus effect, which occurs even if the head of the pellet is aligned with the trajectory, especially in windy condition.
Thanks for the very informative video. And I had no idea of Stevie Wonder having any interest in air gunning. It's good to learn at least one new piece of information every day. Seriously, I do enjoy all of your videos. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much sir for the detailed discussion
The Steevie Wonder Crown! You made my day!!! Thanks! Regards from France, (Yes, we also have guns!)... 🇫🇷🎯🇫🇷 I shoot 22lr, 222 Rem and 243 Winchester but since i watch your channel i've planned to add a nice airgun in my collection, thanks for your time and infos. Philippe.
Sir please make h video on defects of a barrel (inside barrel) like ring, Bulge,bent, chromium plating flaking off etc
Great information! Thanks!
Just watched this. Bit late to the game but Hay ho the explanation and detail in this video is still great. 👌
Great vid as always and informative too your the man Matt! Also lol at crown by Stevey Wonder :)
Best videos ever it's like playing airgun university with some of his videos you are the best airgun channel so far with tons of knowledge. Can you do something about slug =pellet swaying and how to create your own tools and then different tests with each different pellet and then slug compare penetration on 100 yards
Well instead of seeing guns, barrels, bullets, pellets and being awww..
Its much satisfactory to learn about some technical terms involved in it... 👌nice video
Thanx for the info,, very informative!!
thanks , very informative video.
Great video Matt, really interesting. You mentioned the fact that the skirted pellet design is around a 100 years old and was originally made for smooth bore barrels! I have been saying for a long time that as we see airgun design becoming more and more sophisticated nothing seems to have changed in pellet design! Can't help thinking that there is enormous room for improvement in this area of our sport.
+Ian Dixon Agreed! Pellets have horrible BCs!
you do a great jobb! please continue !!!!!!!!!!
Nearly wet myself with the crown made by Stevie Wonder caption!!
Hi Matt, I love your videos that you post on youtube. I have seen the entire playlist of ballistic 101. I have a question to ask, since I have not found anything specific about it on internet. The pitch of rifling is ok, but I wanted to know the difference between more or less grooves. For a PCP, how many grooves are suitable and how much do they affect the bullet, do they have different behaviors on slug balls and pellets? I was intrigued about the difference between 6 grooves and 12 grooves.
Thanks a lot in advance and congratulations again for your videos and valuable advice. :)
JA...that was complicated. Especially the JA cracked me up 😂😂😂😂
Great video，thank you！
Hi Matt very informative video! Not to many videos on the subject. Why didn't you mention polygonal barrels these are my favourite.
great vid
Great info Matt only yiu could explain that 👊
I'd love to see some of the math. I'm a Ph. D. Mechanical Engineer---retired, and I am planning to start making my own PCP air guns, or modifying the work of others. I know, the math would get really, really heavy, real fast, but...hell. Guess I need to see if there are text books on the subject. This is a remarkable job of explaining with minimal math.
Great video.
3: 29, Ok, I got it. A bullet is like a Corvair- unsafe at any speed unless you know full well it's going to roll. HA!
Thanks for the great information, Matt, presented plainly and in order.
Yes!
Also, a smooth barrel will make it easier for the pellet to pick up velocity,
especially if the lubing is right, according to the technology used.
A springer tends to have more of the problem of deforming the pellet inside of the barrel, but at the muzzle
the pressure behind the pellet is low, and it is more silent, and also does not tend to ruin the accuracy there..
There is also the aspect, that you should not push a pure lead pellet too far beyond its limits.
Generally, about 240m/s or 800fps, starts to become more and more questionable for soft lead bullets.
You'll need a harder bullet coating, if you want to go beyond.
PCPs, which tend to cool down the propellant as it is released, can go some faster without causing the problem.
Springers and Gas-Rams should stay lower, to avoid these problems.
So, a good barrel should use a good part of its length with about constant pressure behind the Projectile, to accelerate it..
at first linearly, then exponentially slowly entering the correct twist, from the very beginning (rifling)...
Next Aspect:
Also, every bit of shape change of the Projectile matters very much.
You'll need to experiment with conventional and polygonal rifling...
Next Aspect:
And then, the pressure behind the Projectile should drop off fast enough when approaching the muzzle.
Next Aspect:
In the ideal case, the lubing will also avoid the lead-contamination of the barrel,
and instead make it more clean with each shot..
its nice to know bro. please make another one.
Nice informative video
Very Very interesting Thank You
Awesome in depth analysis Matt, really enjoying this series. Thanks for improving our knowledge and understanding.
And i would like to see a video talking about decently priced scopes that are cheaper but work just as well as some expensive ones and what to look for when wanting to get one that is cheaper but looking for high end quality.
great video
A useful addition to the understanding of barrel twist rates but there are a couple of things I would take issue with. The first is the comments on smooth bore barrels. Smooth bores are not intrinsically inaccurate it all depends on what is being fired and if it is designed for a smoothbore. After all, most tank guns are also smooth bore. Pellets just are not the best design as the aerodynamic stability is marginal. Next, the diagram of the forces acting on the pellet misses the most important aerodynamic components out. Stability is dependent on moments not forces and the most important moments in stability are from lift, not drag, and act at right angles to the center line. Pellets are not drag stabilised, they are flare stabilised. Flares stabilise by producing lift in the same way that fins do. The drag at best only produces a tiny fraction of the total stabilising moment about the center of gravity. Also the explanation for why some spin is needed is erroneous. Spin is needed because of projectile asymmetries not because of the muzzle blast since any yaw produced by this effect will be damped out on a stable design. The problem is that without spin any asymmetry on the pellet will be facing the same direction throughout the pellet flight which will produce a curved trajectory. With some spin the direction in which the asymmetry is pointing will be constantly changing and so will not produce the same gross error. Only a small amount of spin is required, much less than is necessary for gyroscopic stability. The amount of spin needed will depend on the individual pellet design. In the section on the maximum spin rate, the down range over stability talked about is extremely unlikely to occur as the amount of gyroscopic stability for this effect at sea level is much too high. At long ranges you will get excessive drift to the left or right due to the natural variation in the yaw of repose (which is not the vertical angle as suggested in the video) which may lead to the assumption that it is due to over stability. It is only at very high angles in a thin atmosphere (at high altitude, much too high for an airgun) that there will be enough over stability to produce significant Magnus forces. While on Magnus, Magnus does not cause pellets to move up or down in a crosswind, it is just part of the normal gyroscopic response of the pellet to the crosswind causing an initial yaw angle which in turn produces a vertical yaw of repose. I would agree with the comments in the video about the lack of research in twist rate choice and the video as a whole gives a good idea on the use of rifling.
Great comment. You have supplemented/corrected the content of the video. I learned a lot, and I thanks you a lot!
Thanks for your input!
Great explanation! Thank you.
Very long and technical reason to rifle a bore the reason that rifling is more accurate than smooth bore is that projectiles are made on mass and no two act the same when fired out of a barrel. Spinning the projectile out of a rifle stops imperfections dragging the projectile in one direction basically pellets and lead bullets spiral towards the target the better made pellets having less of a spiral ever noticed that really cheap pellets tend to form a ring around the point of aim good pellets if off will give a group in one place according to how the weight and speed matches the spin. If I can hit a match box at 35 yards with my 30 year old under lever that is fine I have no wish to put four out of five pellets through the same hole or strike matches at 20 yards. only the insanely addicted would go in as deep as you have. The reason they do not make air rifles to that high of a standard is that the final product would only be slightly more accurate than what they sell now but would be two or three times the price. and no pellet manufacturer would make the guaranteed perfect pellets wrapped individually to prevent damage.Keep the aim straight have fun and be safe.
would be interesting to experiment with barrels that have tiny vent holes some distance before the crown or before the pellet exits the barrel..
Thanks man 💪🏻
I would love to see more content like this out of Airgun channels. Just sayin
Wouldn't you want the anti-node at the end of the barrel? At nodes in the barrel, positional displacement is 0, but angular displacement is significant. At anti-nodes, positional displacement may be a mm or two, but the angle of the barrel is always constant. Sending a pellet at the right angle from a slightly wrong height is much preferable to sending a pellet at the wrong angle from the right height.
When it comes to crowns, they should be as you correctly pointed out square to the bore in shape, but you don't want an acute angle as it re introduce the problems you are trying to fix, uneven gas expulsion. An angle around 11 degrees, or a combined angle between 150 and 180 is good (180 forming a flat plane to the bore). The biggest reason to not use the optimal 180 flat plane is it's really hard to remove the burrs forming on the inside of the bore during the operation.
Thanks Matt your the man
great vid learnt alot. you should come and hunt in Zimbabwe
Great video! I have question in regards to twist rate. I have an FX Royale .22 and an Impact on the way in .177. What are the twist rate for these rifles? I'm not sure what to input into the StrelokPro App.
Thanks!
good video matt when you do the next video can you also include witch you would use to shoot what kind of animal. For example 177 for sqerells , birds , and rabbits. what size you can shoot an animal as small as a bird to up to a deer or turkey. If that all makes sense. Thanks happy thanksgiving to you and your family.
Is the barrel on a Hatsan hercules bully. 25cal any good? And do you know what the twist rate is? VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEO. GREAT JOB.
The smooth twist barrel is not twisted at the muzzle. The barre is impressed with the rifling on the outside.
I must say this was a very informative video but I wish you would include "bullets" fired from a big bore air rifle in say .45 caliber where the flight characteristics are much different from a diablo pellet.
Hey Matt, nice video! very helpful. I have a question, does it make a big difference in POI when using a ballistic calculator if you give an incorrect twist rate? I have a FX Royale 5.5mm and use Strelok Pro, however I don't know the twist rate and neither the direction of twist . Do you know this information? thanks
Great video! I have a question regarding pellet seating in pcp rifles. Does the pellet seat in a "loading" section or fully inserted into the rifling? Thanks.
Great series, I'd like to learn more about barrel length though.. Can you have a barrel too long? Will different power settings and pellets effect an optimum barrel length? Is there an algorithm for that 😂
thanks good info
good video
thank you
very good!
What about the slugs for airguns?
Do you think they are better since the perform like fire ammo?
Hello, how are you!! I live in Brazil and I would like to know a lot of your information about who manufactures fx guns?
Only 1,832 subscribers until 100,000 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
For instance l use a an FX smooth twist and he mention from the video usually all the groove runs till the end of the barrel, now my question is, what if l use a choke at the end of the groove (twist) to avoid escaping the air from the barrel
So with my tuned marauder pistol, at around anywhere between 22-27 fpe with 21 grain baracuda pellets COMPLETELY clean barrel the accuracy was going everywhere, the fps spread was very good with a deviation of 30, but pellets going everywhere, when I tuned it down to 18 fpe I had amazing accuracy again, so I'm guessing the barrel's twist rate wasn't meant for that kind of speed?
Don’t shoot air guns, only .22lr. What a great explanation on rifle barrels. Would love to hear your opinions on rifling od .22s. Thanks for a great video. Slainte.
Any American instinctively knows what twist on a flying object does. We grow up with it, in baseball and football and even basketball, but the scientific explanation is helpful. :o)