I initially got into design because I figured I couldn't make a career in art, but I grew to really appreciate it on its own terms. I was a visual communications major. Due to disability I dropped out of school and never joined the workforce, but I still have a love for design and this channel reminds me of that.
Great video and love the series here. Your videos are always clear, well-stated, and smartly insightful. I do want to call out one thing about the original ipod design. The scroll wheel was taken from a previously well known and visually respected icon, the exposed speaker. The look of that speaker (cone, center mound, trim) conveyed high fidelity. This visual was critically important because the ipod had no "voice". As a sound-based product it needed a "speaker" to visually call attention to the idea that it could generate music. Even the proportions of the ipod were based on former stereo speaker boxes with the big woofer at the bottom. The ipod itself cribbed off the idea of iconic sound imagery, which on the day it was released already made it iconic.
Th point about consideration for functionality leading to iconic form is so good . There’s something similar into motorcycling world , the Suzuki HAYABUSA. It’s looks are and have been polarizing since it’s release but they’re definitely iconic , at least partly because they serve a purpose, aerodynamics. The bike’s engine was big but nothing out of the ordinary for the time ( it was actually pretty simple and reliable, making it a great tuning platform) . It’s the wind tunnel tested fairing and body of the bike that made it so fast ( so fast it forced the gentleman’s agreement between the four big Japanese motorcycle makers) and also great for long rides . And the engineers did a great job making the bike super stable are good handling . It was so comfortable and handled so well you could just bop it around town . So yeah , sometimes great function leads to iconic form .
I think fundamentally, a design achieving iconic status is a result of being both distinctive and prolific, the latter of which depends a decent amount on the practical function of the product. the Lancia Stratos Zero, despite changing the direction of automotive styling for the next 20 or so years, is not all that well known outside of enthusiast circles, likely because it was only a one-off prototype. the Lamborghini Countach, however, was also designed by Marcello Gandini, but the design was "diluted" onto a producible road car which not only sold in a significant quantity, but was also the fastest production car in the world at the time, thanks to its engineering, and likely because of these factors, a lot more people have become aware of it, thus making it arguably more iconic than the Lancia. in a similar vein, you mention the original BMC mini, and it's certainly an Iconic shape, but how often do you hear of people talking about the Austin Maxi or Landcrab? All three were designed by Alec Issigonis, they all share the same basic aesthetic and mechanical design, albeit scaled up from the mini, but these two come off to the average person as "a bit weird". it seems as though what really kept the mini going was the practical merits of its size, no one else really made a car as small, so it became the immediate choice for anyone who wanted a cheap, small car. thus, even when the other two models became outdated, the mini continued with its old appearance by virtue of being "cheap", until it passed the threshold of "old" to "classic", being divorced from contemporary styling. sorry to just bang on about cars, but it's my ""field of expertise"".
TBH, the mini isn't a particularly good example from an American perspective. I have literally never seen one of those in person in my life. I'm pretty sure that, baring car fanatics, people around here are pretty much only familiar with them via any old british tv shows they may have seen or through the modern mini. You know what car everyone knows and loves (or at least respects) though? The beetle. And I do *still* see 45+ year old bugs on the road from time to time. They where very common and virtually everyone has at least a passing familiarity with them. The damn things are practically romanticized. That being said, the mini might well be a better example from a european perspective. I really don't know. I would guess that it almost certainly is from a british perspective anyways.
@ColonelSandersLite I agree. From a Finnish perspective as well, the Beetle is much more well known and loved than the Mini. I think the Mini is somewhat recognizable here but mostly to an older crowd. Meanwhile, Beetles are iconic in every sense. As kids, we had this roadtrip game where if you saw a Beetle (which was rare but just common enough for this to work), you'd try to be the first to yell out "Beetle lock" (fun fact: here they're called "Kupla" which translates to bubble, so in Finnish it would be "Kuplalukko") and I think the loser would either have to be quiet (kinda like "jinx") or you'd get to hit them. I think it depends on the family. I'm fairly sure this was a known "game" among 90s kids (and older generations).
@@imaginekudryavka9485 The beetle is an interesting case, as it basically just brute forced becoming iconic through having such a long lifespan. The beetle's design wasn't particularly innovative, there were quite a few rear-engined, aircooled cars popping up at the time, and the VW itself was really just a knockoff of the Tatra V570. Even the styling was pretty ordinary, it wasn't especially advanced or frugal for the time. it was only the fact that it kept being made well after all other 1940s cars had stopped being made and were rotting in scrapyards, that it gained a unique appearance. but that was definitely deliberate, if you compare a 1950 beetle to a 1980 super beetle you'll see a substantial difference in smaller components, but the silhouette remains largely untouched.
I agree that products become iconic because of a confluence of different factors. Design being a major one, but not the only one. Great design is a necessary but not sufficient condition.
Oh by the way, if you like the channel, please share it with anyone else who you think would like it and tell them to subscribe. It keeps me motivated to put out more content like this.
Loved the video! Although one small note about Jimi Hendrix -- he actually wasn't left-handed. He turned his guitar around simply because he could play chord shapes more easily with his right hand, his dominant hand, than he could with his left.
Actually-actually: He was likely ambidextrous, so you're both wrong ;) "Although he played his right-handed guitar upside down, and used his left hand to throw, comb his hair and hold cigarettes, Hendrix wrote, ate and held the telephone with his right hand."
About the Cybertruck... my opinion on the design changed rather dramatically when I learned two things: 1. The design was largely a result of the limitations of stamping stainless steel. 2. The aerodynamics are surprisingly good. I still think it's fugly, but I can now appreciate why it is the way it is.
I hoped to find a thread of more iconic designs here. I'll start one. Adding to the Mini, Stratocaster, and iPod, maybe one could say - the Jeep, the iPhone, the acoustic guitar. Or the classic grand piano. I think some designs, like the last two, are SO iconic that we forget they were even designed and didn't always exist. Perhaps literal icons can also be considered iconic. The play/pause buttons, and the power button made up of I and O, for example. The floppy disc also became the universal save icon. Awesome video as always, really got me thinking :)
I dont think Stratocaster surpassed test of time, it is styling, 50s streamlining that seems to came from the desk of Raymond Loewy. Apart from that, what about 80s japanese tape recorders or audio equipment in general? they really break ground and popularize the mentioned buttons.
@@eduardoalfonsodiestragaray9480 I would consider the Panasonic cassette recorder RQ-2104 iconic because they were quite popular and like "one thing".
Aside from the content of the video being insightful and interesting, I gotta say that the overall structure of the video and how you gave different points and gave examples and explanation on those examples is a very very smooth experience for the audience. I couldn’t help but notice how well your point came across after you also gave your counter argument when you spoke about what makes designs not iconic and after that delivering a clear conclusion of the content shown in the video. You have clearly done your research and know how to present information extremely well! You’ve earned a subscribe my friend!
I can see how the analysis of this quote can be applied to music too! Branding as well, among other things. Great video, and very applicable. I like it a lot as someone interested in many different subjects, since the points here seem to apply to all sorts of other things as well.
On the Kennedy quote-I agree with your analysis, but you left out that he was using a powerful rhetorical device as well: Chiasmus. He liked it. He also used it in "Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate."
In all likelihood Ted Sorensen wrote the "ask not" lines and the vast majority of the entire speech. Of course Kennedy had input and editing but Sorensen should be credited with writing it. It wouldn't be the same with another speaker and Kennedy should be given credit for being such a good communicator. Good video.
Would be interesting to look at how long it takes from something to move from MEME to Iconic. Curious if any of the products used as examples of Iconic were considered such at the time. Regardless, a very interesting topic and very well produced and informative video!! Kudos!
Hey Alex! Good to hear from you. Thanks for commenting. I think that most of the meme products never make it to "icon". Things like the snuggie and other made for TV products often fall under the category of meme, at least in my mind. The recent Playstation 5 is another one that will probably be a meme. At least for the definition I'm using for iconic, very few products reach icon status. I personally have never designed an iconic product (using my own definition). And it's likely that I never will. But it can't hurt to try!
Awesome video! It's my first time replying to a youtube video ever, felt a strong compulsion. Not sure if anyone already covered this I do think what Cyber truck boxy unflattering look is a result of the production optimization process. With convention cars, making a costly die is needed to press the body into shape which also applies to the Stratos you mentioned. With Cyber truck, I believe the body is being flat folded which eliminated the need for die completely resulting in the extremely competitive price. It is less of technical innovation but more of extreme optimization when evaluating the current processes which have persisted for decades. It reflects how a shred businessman Elon Musk is and how this approach is of the same spirit when he created Tesla as the first EV company. I do believe the aesthetic is a direct result of the design process and more credit is deserved. Iconic designs can only be defined in hindsight, and are often radical and polarising when first introduced but I believe it would age well:)
Interesting point, I have a different perspective on the cyber truck's design though. Brands that mark the spearhead of an industry can get away with weird and polarizing or even ridiculous products now and then. It signals a certain 'we don't give a f' attitude. Interestingly it doesn't hurt the brand reputation but would do so if done by the competition. The Cybertruck to me falls exactly into this category and it's design was purposefully chosen to be polarizing.
12:02 you could've mentioned the DeLorean, its very iconic, and interestingly, it wasn't iconic before the back to the future movies. once again pushing your point about the importance of marketing.
Perhaps a better example of iconic automobile design is Giorgetto Giugiaro's VW Golf. Not only did it set the standard for the hatchback design, it continues on though 8 iterations at this point, and utilized the minimalist simple angularity which was mimicked recently in Tesla's Cybertruck.
Volvos are both iconic and im very good at recognizing them, i can no joke spot an old volvo immediately from just seeing a bit of it in the corner of my eye
Great video John 👍 Loved how you explained iconic design. It was also interesting to know how marketing also plays a very important role along side with Design. Can't wait for upcoming videos.
Yup. Marketing and engineering. They all need to work together. It is difficult enough to get everyone working harmoniously towards a goal. Creating an iconic product goes way beyond the abilities and skills of the development team involved, though. There's an element of luck and just being in the right place at the right time.
Hey, John I would really appreciate if you could make a video to teach us how to do a detailed case study of a Product with reference to various elements like CMF, trend, material, manufacturing etc. Something that we can also include in our portfolio. 😌 I hope I'm not asking much 😬
the Tesla Cybertruck is designed with manufacturing in mind, isn't the meme-ability more of a marketing genius/side effect? I'd argue that it is objectively iconic lol regardless if one loves it or hates it
Is it tho? Until it gets mass produced it's hard to say whether it is ACTUALLY easier and cheaper to make. I have a feeling it's gotten alot more complex and expensive then they originally thought, the devil is in the details.
It looks simple but also looks like a pain to manufacture. Also I doubt it will release in the exact form we've seen it in, it just cannot pass crash testing without crumple zones and with the jagged, undeforming front end.
I feel like u guys are mixing up complexity and difficulty. It's going to be difficult to get the Cybertruck into production, because it's going to require new materials and new processes. The design isn't complex per se, it's just wildly different from current designs, and so it's not going to be as easy to get production rolling. Once it gets rolling though, there should be no problems, and it'll definitely be simpler than producing a traditional truck with curves and a complex body on frame.
@@acreativename7999 We've seen the production prototype, they just put a slightly larger front bumper. It's still as jagged as ever. Stainless steel can also crumple, how well it crumples depends on how they design it.
I think Cybertruck really represents electric motors impact on how we use vehicles. It isn't apparent yet because nobody has one, but for people who actually need a truck to do truck stuff this is going to completely change the game in terms or torque, hauling ability, and durability.
It is trying to set a new standard for trucks. Electric and better than ICE versions. Like you said it does speak to the greater truth - americas most bought vehicles are truck and people love theirs. The compact, economical mini was appropriate for it's country of origin. It is also not being designed like that for the sake of it, there's practical considerations like eliminating a paint factory, faster production due to simple shape and the metal is SS so it sets it apart from anything on the market. It is iconic
Everything about Cybertruck flows from the decision to use stainless steel of a hard grade for the body. It's not possible to press the material into curvy shapes, and so Elon decided to make a virtue out of a necessity. Hard edges and straight lines were baked in from that first decision. No doubt there are loads of problems to be overcome with mass production of such a radical design, and so launch dates get pushed back further and further.
Great video. Quick thought: If exoskeleton cars become more common then Cybertruck would represent a greater trend. Elon has said it would be the vehicle of choice for Moon and Mars so could end up being iconic for that reason also. We’ll have to see. You are right that a design cannot be called iconic up front, it needs to be determined retrospectively.
Most modern cars are 'exoskeletal', in the sense that they don't have an internal frame on which body panels are hung. Monocoque construction forms single pieces of sheet metal into both outer panels and interior geometry as a single set of structural elements, which makes the car much lighter. The alternatives are body-on-frame, which we only really see in larger trucks nowadays, or a tubular spaceframe with a lightweight body shell, which is almost exclusively a racing and high-performance car thing. The way this idea of an 'exoskeleton' reads on Tesla's site seems to be simply conventional car manufacturing techniques being repackaged as a new idea to make the Cybertruck seem special.
actually the design of the cybertruck could be seen as the iconography of early 3d video games as seen on the playstation 1. The term used to desccribe this look is low-poly (as in using a low amount of polygons) in other words the cybertruck looks like a raw 3d render of an futuristic vehicle and I believe that makes it a pretty stand-out design for the age of Ai transportation.
Thanks for the analysis. I would probably have used the word classic for some of these designs, with iconic adding in the idea of veneration. I don't know that I venerate the Mini, although the Citroen DS I might. The juice squeezer is truly iconic, and I'd get one just to look at it. In the guitar world, I agree the strat is iconic, and the classical guitar is, well, classic. The P bass is worthy of a mention too, as it was the first mass produced electric bass. The edison screw light bulb is probably a design icon, and the mousetrap. The Bic biro, the Cartier tank watch, the Bamix blender are all beautiful, functional designs. Someone mentioned the Honda Cub, there's the 916 Ducati the first motorcycle to be exhibited at the Guggenheim. I love good design, and I guess I use the word iconic when I want to own something just for it's beauty, rather than any functionality.
This is a great list of other iconic/classic products. I think that classic actually could be a nice intermediary between something that is iconic and distinctive. I appreciate the thoughtful comment :)
re CyberTruck: The shape is the result of a novel steel exoskeleton, which cannot be stamped into curves, but has to be folded, like origami. This is driven by considerations of durability, manufacturability (and hence price), strength and weight (and hence battery requirements). Not going to argue the design this way or that, but it is important to note there is reason behind the madness.
I remember me being a young, urban, hip-hop snowboarder a couple decades back. I looked at the Aztec “no, not even if it came with a set of turn-tables folding out the back”
I think the cyber truck is definitely iconic, it might look stupid to some, but damn just looking at its sleek angled frame you know it's probably a bullet proof scifi ,or should I say, cyber truck made by some bold new innovator And we'll, no other car looks like that it's just so different, you won't forget it and so you will recognize it easily, if you look at a Toyota truck or a Honda truck you probably won't immediately see the difference or know the model but if you see the cyber truck you will immediately know it's Tesla. And the best part it's easy to draw, so the design can spread everywhere
I think the dictionary definition actually fits the modern usage well. To say something is iconic according to your modern usage definition IMO represents a watering down of the meaning that suggests its overuse. It's not the only word to befall this fate (genius etc...).
Love your videos, but you went a bit into bias territory when talking about Tesla. That track is actually quite representative of the cyberpunk aesthetic and it's obscene features like bulletproof door, steel being used, massive HEPA filters etc, are quite representative of the general atmosphere of the times, where distinguished institutions show their real, often ridiculous, faces, we're surrounded by "danger" from everywhere (rona, inflation, wars, sanctions, fires, climate change, emotional damage, you name it). It's a Brutalist design for what many people fear is the final stage of the cycle: "strong people > create easy times > create weak people > create hard times".
Yes I agree with you 100% on this. I think I may have even mentioned something similar in my video about the cybertruck. But I still think it's a meme design more than anything.
@@Design.Theory That's fair. I think it's really hard to predict what will stick (especially before it's even in production) 😅. Let's revisit this conversation in 20 years? Btw I'm binge watching all your videos now - amazing content: concise, yet informative; info rich, yet focused; educational, yet personal. In general, great balance, pace, and visuals of everything.
I think TESLA has made a good decision with rolling out the CYBERTRUCK this way. Of course a lot of people don't like the design, but I don't think you would buy this sort of car for the design anyways - quite the opposite. It's a sign of not giving a fuck both in TESLA's and buyers perspective imo. It definitely made it's impact on a lot of people and spread the brand awereness not just to those who care about the environment.
Besides being a car enthusiast and a transportation design student, I am not a car design trend specialist. But I see some relation with the Tesla Cybertruck and some of the new cars that are being designed today. By the fact that a significant part of them seek for simpler surfaces and less high ground lines and character lines. They're all smooth transition surfaces or just plane at all, like the new Hyundai Vision 74. Tesla cybertruck have an inpact on that? I dont know. For sure its not a font of legit inspiration like "omg look at this truck wee need to implement that ultra geometric lines at our cars"... no, I dont believe. But in a certain way, it can represent the new design trends thats going on, an ultra ridiculous icon or... "meme" of the current vanguard. Other examples can be the Peugeot Inception, Dacia Manifesto, BMW I-Vision dee, Kia EV9 and etc. At the end, the Tesla Cybertruck could not have enough relation to being take serious on this topic, but in the future, I think we could use as a caricature to describe hows the current auto design vanguard is going in a funny way.
I also think the cybertruck will become iconic, although it may not be as ground breaking as the ipod, it is bringing electric power to trucks and with its distinctive design I believe it is more than possible it takes off. And if electric power becomes more mainstream in trucks, I think this will be a tipping point for all cars to follow suit. 'Design Prototype Test' did multiple great videos on the cybertruck, showing that the design seems to actually be based a lot on function. The shape allows for higher driving efficiency and the bent steel panels can greatly reduce manufacturing costs.
I remember the iPod as the dawn of people hating a product because it was disposable. You could not change the battery and if you did it would cost as much as buying a new one.
Iconic: resembling an "icon" (icon: People like Jesus, Gandhi, Elvis). Icon means simply "a painting, a picture" (in greek), but since only important persons would be painted as real icons in the greek-speaking eastern Roman empire, their content was important above that of the average depiction (average: a graffiti on an ancient greek wall, for example). So, icon began meaning not just "painting", but the person shown in the painting, most usually a christian saint, or Jesus... So, when the Greeks were already Christians, the adjective "iconic" got a new meaning, the meaning we understand today (instead of simply meaning "related to an icon/painting", as it did before, for several thousands of years)... (Example: Greeks still say in greek "iconic reality" instead of "virtual reality", according to the thousands-years-old meaning of the word, showing that they use both the old and the new sense of the word at the same time...) 4:28 The music-industry: Napster is non-profit, but damages our profits, so, lets fight it... Apple: Lets sell an expensive device that plays illegally downloaded music...!!! None is gonna fight us, cause we´re part of the profit-making-system...!!! 7:16 Not surprising that a a Greek, sir Alec Issigonis, created an iconic design, the Mini-Cooper... ;-)
I read your comment on a design competition video by frank stephenson and i also think that they are like trying to steal raw ideas for free. Thanks for speaking out. Do you think we should avoid free design competitions altogether or even competitions with small rewards?
I have been thinking about this a lot. I have personally taken on one unpaid internship before. I'm not sure if it really benefitted me. On one hand, I didn't get paid. I wasn't taken seriously in the studio since I was not getting paid. I still worked very long hours. I probably could have done a self-directed project and still learned a lot. On the other hand, I made connections with people in the industry that later helped me get work. I also learned a lot about design in that short time. So it's really hard to say. Ever since that first internship, I have taken on unpaid work one single time....and that was because it was for a non-profit/charity and there were health consequences at stake (that's a longer story).
Tesla Cybertruck a _meme!_ Best description for its design. You're right about localised iconic design. Look at the *British road signs system.* It was the first time product designers, using design psychology, were used to design our nations road sign system. Setting the standard, many other countries imitated it.
All the categories mentioned here are more or less subjective. Simplicity is one that stands in the level of very important for a products trascendency.
11:50 How can u say, that Cybertruck does not represent anything new or different? The Exoskeleton and material, which is driving the design is the around 3mm stainless steel metal compared to regular 0,7-1mm metal sheet from ALL other car brands... (cause used from spaceX rockets as well) In that sense it has definitely a greater truth, also if not a general, boring and average greater truth, but a very specific unique one - Don´t u think so? looking forward to your thoughts about this ;-) Cheers
Yeah I mention the exoskeleton in the video. That's one innovation. That alone doesn't make it iconic. The Delorean (and other cars before it) were made of stainless steel. It's hard to say whether the Cybertruck is an icon or a meme at this point. I suspect the latter. It takes a few years of reflection to see whether a design reaches icon status. We'll see in about 5-10 years.
I believe the cyber truck was inspired by the US navy's very weird and angular ships. the Cybertruck is better looking than the navy's boats, but still to simple, for the size. The Ford trucks from the early 2000s have a similar issue on video. The Cyber truck may be designed to look the best in-person, where the size, and close-up perspective can take affect.
Thanks for shinning your spotlight on these two extraordinary jfk quotes. However it's so hard for all the "stuff" coming up afterwards to look good... it's just stuff after all.
There are so many great design channels, but none of them really focus on industrial design theory/principles. minor details podcast is decent. lens podcast is good. sam does design is good. spencer nugent/sketch a day has good content too. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. There might be others that I don't know about.
JFK's big line was probably written by Ted Sorensen. Lyndon Johnson tried the rest of his political life to match the magic of that moment and failed. Even though he crafted many fine, worthwhile statements, they just didn't have that iconic ring. Thanks for your vids.
This channel has a wonderful back catalogue. I'm not a fan of the angry cars on the road. It makes my drive more unpleasant, since the faces you see are the faces of angry trucks. :( I miss the old camaro with it's goofy face.
The weird thing is that apple seems to be good at creating iconic designs? Would you consider it iconic?? It’s confusing because the designs are popular but become outdated much quicker than an iconic car design or something.
I went to the Sprengel museum of design in Hannover and it was amazing. Ironically their website is horribly designed; even when you select English all the menus are still in German and there are no photographs on the site that would highlight the wonderful designs you'll see if you visit. It's like they're saying, "Ihnen wird befohlen, zu besuchen und Sie werden freudengefühle erleben!"
It’s first a meme until it’s iconic. Simple as that. Almost all great deign goes through this. It’s just about how well they’re accepted over the course of time. You said it yourself, first it’s meh, second..
i dont get your point about the cybertruck. the "greater truth" is that its made from stainless steel, no more scratched paint or rust. and since stainless steel is hard to shape, you need to find a shape that basically consists of straight lines. where's the insanity in that?
This is a pretty interesting video but it has a fatal flaw: I take issue with the idea that you can just invent a new definition for an idea and then assume everyone is using the word that way, that's just not how language works. "Recognisable, memorable and sets a new standard" sounds very much to me like 'trend-setting', not iconic. Iconic is not just that, and the really important bit is embodied in the idea of icons on computers/phones, which follows the dictionary definition: icons represent a broad, complex idea within a single entity. All the examples you focus on are indeed icons, but not really for the reason you give, because you stop short of actually identifying that broad, complex idea. The iPod is an icon, not because it's recognisable or memorable (the same is true of many other MP3 players of the era) and certainly not because it set a new standard (in terms of tech, it didn't, it's predecessors like the Creative Jukebox did, it just offered an alternative paradigm; the competing products were better technically, but didn't have a juggernaut tech company behind them to pull in an incredible designer to rethink the look and interface), but because it represents the moment Apple became cool by leveraging its industrial design abilities to make a product not just nerds but everyone wanted. It's an icon of the early years of the internet and the tech boom, too, and more than anything it's an icon of the power of design to make a mediocre product more attractive than the much better alternative products. The Mini, on top of being recogniseable (although every car is recognisable) and memorable and setting a new standard (improvements in car design that allowed the Mini to thrive at the junction between microcars like the Isetta and small family cars like the Austin 1100, meaning it fitted a remarkably wide number of people's needs), what the Mini really represents is the height of British cultural and economic power. Anyone who knows the Mini knows it's a British car, the two things go together hand in hand, and it also represents the time it was new: the 1960s, when British cultural power was at its strongest. And the Strat; yes, it ushered in new things through new technology, but what it represents is the music that this new technology made possible; that's what is recognisable, memorable and standard-setting, the Stratocaster is the conduit which made that happen. The Stratocaster design represents rock music, essentially. That's why I think the Cybertruck is actually iconic, and illustrates well the idea that iconic can also be bad. It's very representative of Elon Musk himself - a big, brash presence that you can't really ignore, either genius or vaporware (or a weird mix of both), but nobody can quite tell which - and of the things he stands for, the hyper-capitalist, hyper-individualist, hyper-libertarian worldview. Because the jury is not in on whether this approach to modern problems is in any way effective, it's an icon for Musk whatever you think of him, good or bad. I'd say it's also memetic, to be clear, but in my view that requires something to be at least a bit emotionally engaging (not really needed for an icon). In the case of the Cybertruck it's the absurdity of it that supplies this. For the same reason, I think the Stratos Zero is NOT generally iconic. It does in some measure represent a certain trend in car design toward the wedge form, and it is fantastic design; I as a car design lover recognise and understand the importance of the car (it's iconic *to me*, therefore), but since it was only a concept car it simply hasn't enough recognition to mean anything specific to most people. But as someone else pointed out, the Countach, another, later design from the same person that became a massive hit...THAT's iconic. Supercars of the time were out to shock and awe all who saw them, and the Countach really popularised the shock factor the Stratos Zero had pioneered. Its aerodynamic performance is actually quite poor (Cd 0.42), but it looks impossibly fast and violent; it does not seduce with beauty, as previous high-end supercars did, it instead ravages with brutality. It's not only an evolution of the Stratos Zero's ideas into a more usable car, the LP400 and later versions absolutely represent the '80s, an era when power, aggression and excess was more important than beauty, and a lot of design projected these values.
Hey, thanks for leaving such a thoughtful comment. While I don't agree with a lot of it, I do agree with some of it, and I think you bring up some great points.
from professional design perspective “please don’t assume i am a fan of the cyber truck because i am not talking only about it but any product design, i am just trying to clear 1 huge point about the future of design”, you was way wrong and didn’t understand the design Philosophy of the cyber truck, it is trying to represents the best optimal design for a car, every shape, every line, and everything try to follow that. there is nothing in the design about the look, it is all about the best functionality possible. and all the future cars “and products” will follow this design, and all of them will almost be identical if the functionality is identical “meaning other truck” and any change in the design for other type of cars will be 100% just to maximize its functionality to the most optimal way, because in the future there is no extra line or shape in any product design, every 1mm will have clear purpose and functionality, and this is why this cyber truck will be in vast future the most iconic design because it is way ahead of its time. in the future even the people will not like any product design that have anything extra that don’t serve it functionality, the best will be the most simple most optimal.
keep in mind that even if cyber truck failed to achieve that and its design, it tried to do the most optimal design, and every product design will follow that in future.
I understood the design philosophy. I just don’t agree with it. I don’t think it’s the most optimal design. Yes, the body design lowers the price,but it’s at the expense of pretty much everything else. I could be wrong. We’ll just have to wait and see
Yes they did. Having lots of music available 24/7 was a big change. I was listening to some 90s dnb that’s underground. I was just wondering how in the 90s it actually would have been perceived as really novel and I probably wouldn’t have discovered the song mainly because with physical media I think you really actually have to be into collecting music to find novel stuff and then because there isn’t a web search it’s still hit and miss. In a way I think constant access to music actually makes us take it for granted more.
That Cybertruck looks very dangerous for pedestrians even when it's stay still - scared, slipped, fell, hit the head on a cybertrucks frame, died. Plus the driver doesn't see a shit - ..the angle of the windshield, racks,.. That's obvious iconik disaster.
I initially got into design because I figured I couldn't make a career in art, but I grew to really appreciate it on its own terms. I was a visual communications major. Due to disability I dropped out of school and never joined the workforce, but I still have a love for design and this channel reminds me of that.
Great video and love the series here. Your videos are always clear, well-stated, and smartly insightful. I do want to call out one thing about the original ipod design. The scroll wheel was taken from a previously well known and visually respected icon, the exposed speaker. The look of that speaker (cone, center mound, trim) conveyed high fidelity. This visual was critically important because the ipod had no "voice". As a sound-based product it needed a "speaker" to visually call attention to the idea that it could generate music. Even the proportions of the ipod were based on former stereo speaker boxes with the big woofer at the bottom. The ipod itself cribbed off the idea of iconic sound imagery, which on the day it was released already made it iconic.
Excellent insights as always, Raffi. Thank you for pointing this out!
Th point about consideration for functionality leading to iconic form is so good . There’s something similar into motorcycling world , the Suzuki HAYABUSA. It’s looks are and have been polarizing since it’s release but they’re definitely iconic , at least partly because they serve a purpose, aerodynamics. The bike’s engine was big but nothing out of the ordinary for the time ( it was actually pretty simple and reliable, making it a great tuning platform) . It’s the wind tunnel tested fairing and body of the bike that made it so fast ( so fast it forced the gentleman’s agreement between the four big Japanese motorcycle makers) and also great for long rides . And the engineers did a great job making the bike super stable are good handling . It was so comfortable and handled so well you could just bop it around town .
So yeah , sometimes great function leads to iconic form .
I think fundamentally, a design achieving iconic status is a result of being both distinctive and prolific, the latter of which depends a decent amount on the practical function of the product.
the Lancia Stratos Zero, despite changing the direction of automotive styling for the next 20 or so years, is not all that well known outside of enthusiast circles, likely because it was only a one-off prototype.
the Lamborghini Countach, however, was also designed by Marcello Gandini, but the design was "diluted" onto a producible road car which not only sold in a significant quantity, but was also the fastest production car in the world at the time, thanks to its engineering, and likely because of these factors, a lot more people have become aware of it, thus making it arguably more iconic than the Lancia.
in a similar vein, you mention the original BMC mini, and it's certainly an Iconic shape, but how often do you hear of people talking about the Austin Maxi or Landcrab? All three were designed by Alec Issigonis, they all share the same basic aesthetic and mechanical design, albeit scaled up from the mini, but these two come off to the average person as "a bit weird".
it seems as though what really kept the mini going was the practical merits of its size, no one else really made a car as small, so it became the immediate choice for anyone who wanted a cheap, small car.
thus, even when the other two models became outdated, the mini continued with its old appearance by virtue of being "cheap", until it passed the threshold of "old" to "classic", being divorced from contemporary styling.
sorry to just bang on about cars, but it's my ""field of expertise"".
TBH, the mini isn't a particularly good example from an American perspective. I have literally never seen one of those in person in my life. I'm pretty sure that, baring car fanatics, people around here are pretty much only familiar with them via any old british tv shows they may have seen or through the modern mini.
You know what car everyone knows and loves (or at least respects) though? The beetle. And I do *still* see 45+ year old bugs on the road from time to time. They where very common and virtually everyone has at least a passing familiarity with them. The damn things are practically romanticized.
That being said, the mini might well be a better example from a european perspective. I really don't know. I would guess that it almost certainly is from a british perspective anyways.
@ColonelSandersLite I agree. From a Finnish perspective as well, the Beetle is much more well known and loved than the Mini. I think the Mini is somewhat recognizable here but mostly to an older crowd. Meanwhile, Beetles are iconic in every sense. As kids, we had this roadtrip game where if you saw a Beetle (which was rare but just common enough for this to work), you'd try to be the first to yell out "Beetle lock" (fun fact: here they're called "Kupla" which translates to bubble, so in Finnish it would be "Kuplalukko") and I think the loser would either have to be quiet (kinda like "jinx") or you'd get to hit them. I think it depends on the family. I'm fairly sure this was a known "game" among 90s kids (and older generations).
@@imaginekudryavka9485 The beetle is an interesting case, as it basically just brute forced becoming iconic through having such a long lifespan.
The beetle's design wasn't particularly innovative, there were quite a few rear-engined, aircooled cars popping up at the time, and the VW itself was really just a knockoff of the Tatra V570.
Even the styling was pretty ordinary, it wasn't especially advanced or frugal for the time.
it was only the fact that it kept being made well after all other 1940s cars had stopped being made and were rotting in scrapyards, that it gained a unique appearance.
but that was definitely deliberate, if you compare a 1950 beetle to a 1980 super beetle you'll see a substantial difference in smaller components, but the silhouette remains largely untouched.
I agree that products become iconic because of a confluence of different factors. Design being a major one, but not the only one. Great design is a necessary but not sufficient condition.
Your channel is one of the best channels I have ever found
Thank you! I try my best :) More videos coming soon
Oh by the way, if you like the channel, please share it with anyone else who you think would like it and tell them to subscribe. It keeps me motivated to put out more content like this.
@@Design.Theory im already sharing your videos. Bingeworthy lol
@@sweetfruit7769 Thank you!
Loved the video! Although one small note about Jimi Hendrix -- he actually wasn't left-handed. He turned his guitar around simply because he could play chord shapes more easily with his right hand, his dominant hand, than he could with his left.
Ah. so sorry I missed that. Thank you for pointing it out!
Actually-actually: He was likely ambidextrous, so you're both wrong ;)
"Although he played his right-handed guitar upside down, and used his left hand to throw, comb his hair and hold cigarettes, Hendrix wrote, ate and held the telephone with his right hand."
About the Cybertruck... my opinion on the design changed rather dramatically when I learned two things: 1. The design was largely a result of the limitations of stamping stainless steel. 2. The aerodynamics are surprisingly good. I still think it's fugly, but I can now appreciate why it is the way it is.
That's far
What’s your opinion now?
THANK YOU SO MUCH. I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. I LEARNED IN DESIGN SCHOOL. THAT GREAT DESIGN IS TIMELESS. AN EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE 1932 FORD.
I hoped to find a thread of more iconic designs here. I'll start one. Adding to the Mini, Stratocaster, and iPod, maybe one could say - the Jeep, the iPhone, the acoustic guitar. Or the classic grand piano.
I think some designs, like the last two, are SO iconic that we forget they were even designed and didn't always exist.
Perhaps literal icons can also be considered iconic. The play/pause buttons, and the power button made up of I and O, for example. The floppy disc also became the universal save icon.
Awesome video as always, really got me thinking :)
I dont think Stratocaster surpassed test of time, it is styling, 50s streamlining that seems to came from the desk of Raymond Loewy. Apart from that, what about 80s japanese tape recorders or audio equipment in general? they really break ground and popularize the mentioned buttons.
@@eduardoalfonsodiestragaray9480 I would consider the Panasonic cassette recorder RQ-2104 iconic because they were quite popular and like "one thing".
This series is gonna be great.
Thanks Babu :)
Aside from the content of the video being insightful and interesting, I gotta say that the overall structure of the video and how you gave different points and gave examples and explanation on those examples is a very very smooth experience for the audience. I couldn’t help but notice how well your point came across after you also gave your counter argument when you spoke about what makes designs not iconic and after that delivering a clear conclusion of the content shown in the video. You have clearly done your research and know how to present information extremely well! You’ve earned a subscribe my friend!
Thanks for leaving such a kind content, Nada!!!!!
Fantastic to see this - and that there is going to be a series! Thanks so much.
No problem Susan! Thanks for checking it out!
I can see how the analysis of this quote can be applied to music too! Branding as well, among other things. Great video, and very applicable. I like it a lot as someone interested in many different subjects, since the points here seem to apply to all sorts of other things as well.
On the Kennedy quote-I agree with your analysis, but you left out that he was using a powerful rhetorical device as well: Chiasmus. He liked it. He also used it in "Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate."
Your voiceover is very clear and well done
Thanks ru phelan :)
In all likelihood Ted Sorensen wrote the "ask not" lines and the vast majority of the entire speech. Of course Kennedy had input and editing but Sorensen should be credited with writing it. It wouldn't be the same with another speaker and Kennedy should be given credit for being such a good communicator. Good video.
Would be interesting to look at how long it takes from something to move from MEME to Iconic. Curious if any of the products used as examples of Iconic were considered such at the time. Regardless, a very interesting topic and very well produced and informative video!! Kudos!
Hey Alex! Good to hear from you. Thanks for commenting. I think that most of the meme products never make it to "icon". Things like the snuggie and other made for TV products often fall under the category of meme, at least in my mind. The recent Playstation 5 is another one that will probably be a meme. At least for the definition I'm using for iconic, very few products reach icon status. I personally have never designed an iconic product (using my own definition). And it's likely that I never will. But it can't hurt to try!
Dogecoin
Or doge in general
IMHO iconic as a term is retrospective. The Cybertruck can't be iconic, it isn't even released yet. It may become iconic over time, or it may not.
Make a killer portfolio and land your dream design job. Enroll in my online industrial design course, Form Fundamentals. bit.ly/335vsqO .
Awesome video! It's my first time replying to a youtube video ever, felt a strong compulsion. Not sure if anyone already covered this I do think what Cyber truck boxy unflattering look is a result of the production optimization process. With convention cars, making a costly die is needed to press the body into shape which also applies to the Stratos you mentioned. With Cyber truck, I believe the body is being flat folded which eliminated the need for die completely resulting in the extremely competitive price. It is less of technical innovation but more of extreme optimization when evaluating the current processes which have persisted for decades. It reflects how a shred businessman Elon Musk is and how this approach is of the same spirit when he created Tesla as the first EV company. I do believe the aesthetic is a direct result of the design process and more credit is deserved. Iconic designs can only be defined in hindsight, and are often radical and polarising when first introduced but I believe it would age well:)
Interesting point, I have a different perspective on the cyber truck's design though.
Brands that mark the spearhead of an industry can get away with weird and polarizing or even ridiculous products now and then. It signals a certain 'we don't give a f' attitude. Interestingly it doesn't hurt the brand reputation but would do so if done by the competition.
The Cybertruck to me falls exactly into this category and it's design was purposefully chosen to be polarizing.
Upgrading my iPod from the hard drive to flash storage really helped my iPod live on to this day!
12:02 you could've mentioned the DeLorean, its very iconic, and interestingly, it wasn't iconic before the back to the future movies. once again pushing your point about the importance of marketing.
I desperately want to buy a DeLorean someday
@@Design.Theory yeah.. its such a cool vehicle.. but doesnt it cost a fortune these days..
Perhaps a better example of iconic automobile design is Giorgetto Giugiaro's VW Golf. Not only did it set the standard for the hatchback design, it continues on though 8 iterations at this point, and utilized the minimalist simple angularity which was mimicked recently in Tesla's Cybertruck.
Love this topic. Can't wait to see the next video.
Thanks tom! Big things are coming soon! Hopefully next week or the week after that.
Volvos are both iconic and im very good at recognizing them, i can no joke spot an old volvo immediately from just seeing a bit of it in the corner of my eye
Great video John 👍
Loved how you explained iconic design.
It was also interesting to know how marketing also plays a very important role along side with Design.
Can't wait for upcoming videos.
Yup. Marketing and engineering. They all need to work together. It is difficult enough to get everyone working harmoniously towards a goal. Creating an iconic product goes way beyond the abilities and skills of the development team involved, though. There's an element of luck and just being in the right place at the right time.
Hey, John I would really appreciate if you could make a video to teach us how to do a detailed case study of a Product with reference to various elements like CMF, trend, material, manufacturing etc.
Something that we can also include in our portfolio. 😌
I hope I'm not asking much 😬
@@neelpadia2307 I'm on it!
Me an industrial design engineer every single time I’m in class: yeah… *iconic* 💅
the Tesla Cybertruck is designed with manufacturing in mind, isn't the meme-ability more of a marketing genius/side effect? I'd argue that it is objectively iconic lol regardless if one loves it or hates it
Is it tho? Until it gets mass produced it's hard to say whether it is ACTUALLY easier and cheaper to make. I have a feeling it's gotten alot more complex and expensive then they originally thought, the devil is in the details.
It looks simple but also looks like a pain to manufacture. Also I doubt it will release in the exact form we've seen it in, it just cannot pass crash testing without crumple zones and with the jagged, undeforming front end.
It’s just a vapor ware brick
I feel like u guys are mixing up complexity and difficulty. It's going to be difficult to get the Cybertruck into production, because it's going to require new materials and new processes. The design isn't complex per se, it's just wildly different from current designs, and so it's not going to be as easy to get production rolling. Once it gets rolling though, there should be no problems, and it'll definitely be simpler than producing a traditional truck with curves and a complex body on frame.
@@acreativename7999
We've seen the production prototype, they just put a slightly larger front bumper. It's still as jagged as ever. Stainless steel can also crumple, how well it crumples depends on how they design it.
I think Cybertruck really represents electric motors impact on how we use vehicles. It isn't apparent yet because nobody has one, but for people who actually need a truck to do truck stuff this is going to completely change the game in terms or torque, hauling ability, and durability.
It is trying to set a new standard for trucks. Electric and better than ICE versions. Like you said it does speak to the greater truth - americas most bought vehicles are truck and people love theirs. The compact, economical mini was appropriate for it's country of origin.
It is also not being designed like that for the sake of it, there's practical considerations like eliminating a paint factory, faster production due to simple shape and the metal is SS so it sets it apart from anything on the market. It is iconic
Everything about Cybertruck flows from the decision to use stainless steel of a hard grade for the body. It's not possible to press the material into curvy shapes, and so Elon decided to make a virtue out of a necessity. Hard edges and straight lines were baked in from that first decision. No doubt there are loads of problems to be overcome with mass production of such a radical design, and so launch dates get pushed back further and further.
All remains to be seen. So far it is essential an advanced car show prototype.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂ok
When something is special in its moment and still appreciated years later, then it may be an icon.
dam bro im glad i found you, im tryna become a car designer/engineer and need all the teachings! Great videos man
You forgot the ICON A5. Truly a masterpiece.
Great video. Quick thought: If exoskeleton cars become more common then Cybertruck would represent a greater trend. Elon has said it would be the vehicle of choice for Moon and Mars so could end up being iconic for that reason also. We’ll have to see. You are right that a design cannot be called iconic up front, it needs to be determined retrospectively.
Most modern cars are 'exoskeletal', in the sense that they don't have an internal frame on which body panels are hung. Monocoque construction forms single pieces of sheet metal into both outer panels and interior geometry as a single set of structural elements, which makes the car much lighter. The alternatives are body-on-frame, which we only really see in larger trucks nowadays, or a tubular spaceframe with a lightweight body shell, which is almost exclusively a racing and high-performance car thing. The way this idea of an 'exoskeleton' reads on Tesla's site seems to be simply conventional car manufacturing techniques being repackaged as a new idea to make the Cybertruck seem special.
actually the design of the cybertruck could be seen as the iconography of early 3d video games as seen on the playstation 1. The term used to desccribe this look is low-poly (as in using a low amount of polygons) in other words the cybertruck looks like a raw 3d render of an futuristic vehicle and I believe that makes it a pretty stand-out design for the age of Ai transportation.
Thanks for the analysis. I would probably have used the word classic for some of these designs, with iconic adding in the idea of veneration. I don't know that I venerate the Mini, although the Citroen DS I might. The juice squeezer is truly iconic, and I'd get one just to look at it. In the guitar world, I agree the strat is iconic, and the classical guitar is, well, classic. The P bass is worthy of a mention too, as it was the first mass produced electric bass. The edison screw light bulb is probably a design icon, and the mousetrap. The Bic biro, the Cartier tank watch, the Bamix blender are all beautiful, functional designs. Someone mentioned the Honda Cub, there's the 916 Ducati the first motorcycle to be exhibited at the Guggenheim. I love good design, and I guess I use the word iconic when I want to own something just for it's beauty, rather than any functionality.
This is a great list of other iconic/classic products. I think that classic actually could be a nice intermediary between something that is iconic and distinctive. I appreciate the thoughtful comment :)
re CyberTruck: The shape is the result of a novel steel exoskeleton, which cannot be stamped into curves, but has to be folded, like origami.
This is driven by considerations of durability, manufacturability (and hence price), strength and weight (and hence battery requirements).
Not going to argue the design this way or that, but it is important to note there is reason behind the madness.
I must make an iconic dseign thank in part to this episode- thank you.
God bless.
I remember me being a young, urban, hip-hop snowboarder a couple decades back. I looked at the Aztec “no, not even if it came with a set of turn-tables folding out the back”
I think the cyber truck is definitely iconic, it might look stupid to some, but damn just looking at its sleek angled frame you know it's probably a bullet proof scifi ,or should I say, cyber truck made by some bold new innovator
And we'll, no other car looks like that it's just so different, you won't forget it and so you will recognize it easily, if you look at a Toyota truck or a Honda truck you probably won't immediately see the difference or know the model but if you see the cyber truck you will immediately know it's Tesla.
And the best part it's easy to draw, so the design can spread everywhere
There is indeed another very angular car that has become iconic: The G Class
I think the dictionary definition actually fits the modern usage well. To say something is iconic according to your modern usage definition IMO represents a watering down of the meaning that suggests its overuse. It's not the only word to befall this fate (genius etc...).
Love your videos, but you went a bit into bias territory when talking about Tesla. That track is actually quite representative of the cyberpunk aesthetic and it's obscene features like bulletproof door, steel being used, massive HEPA filters etc, are quite representative of the general atmosphere of the times, where distinguished institutions show their real, often ridiculous, faces, we're surrounded by "danger" from everywhere (rona, inflation, wars, sanctions, fires, climate change, emotional damage, you name it). It's a Brutalist design for what many people fear is the final stage of the cycle: "strong people > create easy times > create weak people > create hard times".
I hope my comment is illustrative, and constructive.
Yes I agree with you 100% on this. I think I may have even mentioned something similar in my video about the cybertruck. But I still think it's a meme design more than anything.
@@Design.Theory That's fair. I think it's really hard to predict what will stick (especially before it's even in production) 😅. Let's revisit this conversation in 20 years?
Btw I'm binge watching all your videos now - amazing content: concise, yet informative; info rich, yet focused; educational, yet personal. In general, great balance, pace, and visuals of everything.
To make a product become iconic, design is only a part of it, branding and marketing are also very important.
a very well explained video. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Alfred :) Hope you learned something.
I really enjoyed watching this amazing video. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I can't even draw a circle. However I love learning about design. Thanks
I'm a surfer so I appreciate your kneeboarding interest. You're one of the last of your kind, and you gotta keep it alive. Keep it up man.
I think TESLA has made a good decision with rolling out the CYBERTRUCK this way. Of course a lot of people don't like the design, but I don't think you would buy this sort of car for the design anyways - quite the opposite. It's a sign of not giving a fuck both in TESLA's and buyers perspective imo. It definitely made it's impact on a lot of people and spread the brand awereness not just to those who care about the environment.
My favorite Iconic Designs - all ubiquitous, world changing, and essential to modernity:
AK-47
VW Beetle
iPod
Honda Cub
Swiss Army Knife
Safety Bicycle
Bic Pen
Zippo Lighter
Soccer (Foot) Ball (Adidas Telstar)
this is a great list. Thank you!
Besides being a car enthusiast and a transportation design student, I am not a car design trend specialist. But I see some relation with the Tesla Cybertruck and some of the new cars that are being designed today. By the fact that a significant part of them seek for simpler surfaces and less high ground lines and character lines. They're all smooth transition surfaces or just plane at all, like the new Hyundai Vision 74. Tesla cybertruck have an inpact on that? I dont know. For sure its not a font of legit inspiration like "omg look at this truck wee need to implement that ultra geometric lines at our cars"... no, I dont believe. But in a certain way, it can represent the new design trends thats going on, an ultra ridiculous icon or... "meme" of the current vanguard. Other examples can be the Peugeot Inception, Dacia Manifesto, BMW I-Vision dee, Kia EV9 and etc. At the end, the Tesla Cybertruck could not have enough relation to being take serious on this topic, but in the future, I think we could use as a caricature to describe hows the current auto design vanguard is going in a funny way.
As a student your videos helps alot!! Thank you so much!
Thanks Shreyashi! Glad you found the video helpful :)
I agree with everything except the CyberTruck. I love that thing
Time will tell what history makes of it. I can almost guarantee that it will never be iconic, though.
I think once it's released we will see if it outperforms others. If so, it has a chance to become iconic.
I also think the cybertruck will become iconic, although it may not be as ground breaking as the ipod, it is bringing electric power to trucks and with its distinctive design I believe it is more than possible it takes off. And if electric power becomes more mainstream in trucks, I think this will be a tipping point for all cars to follow suit. 'Design Prototype Test' did multiple great videos on the cybertruck, showing that the design seems to actually be based a lot on function. The shape allows for higher driving efficiency and the bent steel panels can greatly reduce manufacturing costs.
Good design is about the principle of necessity with style based on diversity and balance.
Well done. I had a Mini MK3. 40 hp.
Fascinating stuff! I like the fact that you look at some terms that are currently overused/ misused. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
this series is banng on .... u just made things so clear ...👍👍👍👍
Thanks for checking it out :)
I like your videos before I see it... Because I know there will be a ton of insights here.
thank you, Abins. That is such a nice thing to say !
Love your vids! Just wanted to say that for support
I really do appreciate that, Leon.
I remember the iPod as the dawn of people hating a product because it was disposable. You could not change the battery and if you did it would cost as much as buying a new one.
Iconic: resembling an "icon" (icon: People like Jesus, Gandhi, Elvis). Icon means simply "a painting, a picture" (in greek), but since only important persons would be painted as real icons in the greek-speaking eastern Roman empire, their content was important above that of the average depiction (average: a graffiti on an ancient greek wall, for example). So, icon began meaning not just "painting", but the person shown in the painting, most usually a christian saint, or Jesus... So, when the Greeks were already Christians, the adjective "iconic" got a new meaning, the meaning we understand today (instead of simply meaning "related to an icon/painting", as it did before, for several thousands of years)... (Example: Greeks still say in greek "iconic reality" instead of "virtual reality", according to the thousands-years-old meaning of the word, showing that they use both the old and the new sense of the word at the same time...)
4:28 The music-industry: Napster is non-profit, but damages our profits, so, lets fight it...
Apple: Lets sell an expensive device that plays illegally downloaded music...!!! None is gonna fight us, cause we´re part of the profit-making-system...!!!
7:16 Not surprising that a a Greek, sir Alec Issigonis, created an iconic design, the Mini-Cooper... ;-)
I read your comment on a design competition video by frank stephenson and i also think that they are like trying to steal raw ideas for free.
Thanks for speaking out.
Do you think we should avoid free design competitions altogether or even competitions with small rewards?
I have been thinking about this a lot. I have personally taken on one unpaid internship before. I'm not sure if it really benefitted me. On one hand, I didn't get paid. I wasn't taken seriously in the studio since I was not getting paid. I still worked very long hours. I probably could have done a self-directed project and still learned a lot. On the other hand, I made connections with people in the industry that later helped me get work. I also learned a lot about design in that short time. So it's really hard to say. Ever since that first internship, I have taken on unpaid work one single time....and that was because it was for a non-profit/charity and there were health consequences at stake (that's a longer story).
6:15 Nope. Works just the opposite for me. Excessive play has caused me to hate songs I was initially indifferent about.
Tesla Cybertruck a _meme!_ Best description for its design.
You're right about localised iconic design. Look at the *British road signs system.* It was the first time product designers, using design psychology, were used to design our nations road sign system. Setting the standard, many other countries imitated it.
I'm literally always thinking about this topic. I think I came to similar situations
I would think the Aston design is iconic as nearly every high end model has adopted the style, and now so too has Honda.
All the categories mentioned here are more or less subjective. Simplicity is one that stands in the level of very important for a products trascendency.
Video length is elite of you ask me
11:50 How can u say, that Cybertruck does not represent anything new or different? The Exoskeleton and material, which is driving the design is the around 3mm stainless steel metal compared to regular 0,7-1mm metal sheet from ALL other car brands... (cause used from spaceX rockets as well) In that sense it has definitely a greater truth, also if not a general, boring and average greater truth, but a very specific unique one - Don´t u think so?
looking forward to your thoughts about this ;-) Cheers
Yeah I mention the exoskeleton in the video. That's one innovation. That alone doesn't make it iconic. The Delorean (and other cars before it) were made of stainless steel. It's hard to say whether the Cybertruck is an icon or a meme at this point. I suspect the latter. It takes a few years of reflection to see whether a design reaches icon status. We'll see in about 5-10 years.
dude, great job!
Thanks for checking it out!
I believe the cyber truck was inspired by the US navy's very weird and angular ships. the Cybertruck is better looking than the navy's boats, but still to simple, for the size. The Ford trucks from the early 2000s have a similar issue on video. The Cyber truck may be designed to look the best in-person, where the size, and close-up perspective can take affect.
good vids though. I have actually retained enough interest, to comment something with commas.
Thanks for shinning your spotlight on these two extraordinary jfk quotes. However it's so hard for all the "stuff" coming up afterwards to look good... it's just stuff after all.
I would submit that Steve Jobs’s greatest design achievement was the line of NeXT computers.
depends on how you measure said achievements
Are there any other design channels that are as cool as yours?
There are so many great design channels, but none of them really focus on industrial design theory/principles. minor details podcast is decent. lens podcast is good. sam does design is good. spencer nugent/sketch a day has good content too. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. There might be others that I don't know about.
@@Design.Theory cool thank you !!!
Every time I use my Zippo lighter, I think: "Simplicity is dependability."
JFK's big line was probably written by Ted Sorensen. Lyndon Johnson tried the rest of his political life to match the magic of that moment and failed. Even though he crafted many fine, worthwhile statements, they just didn't have that iconic ring. Thanks for your vids.
i appreciate the additional context!
awesome video!
I'm glad you liked it! I hope you learned something.
What's the font you are using ??
"ipod is technologically outdated"
ipod audiophiles: excuse me?
This channel has a wonderful back catalogue. I'm not a fan of the angry cars on the road. It makes my drive more unpleasant, since the faces you see are the faces of angry trucks. :( I miss the old camaro with it's goofy face.
Thank you for saying that! Yeah I made a lot of videos when I had fewer than 300 subscribers that no one really watched :O
5:58 you need eyes on your product if you want it become eye-conic
11:05 i would rephrase that to:
"I would consider this a Triumph. And make a Note about a Huge Success."
just because you are on the Topic of Memes :D
Together for freedom of man. I think we've forgotten that and are more locked down, controlled and opressed than ever before. Imagine that.
これを100%理解できるように
英語勉強するか...
Good movie from 🇯🇵🇯🇵🎌
This video will still be talking about the Cybertruck as a future product in ten years. They're still trying to make glass that doesn't break.
The weird thing is that apple seems to be good at creating iconic designs? Would you consider it iconic?? It’s confusing because the designs are popular but become outdated much quicker than an iconic car design or something.
WORDSPLAYED !!!!
LFL2 🐐🐐🐐 😭😢
I went to the Sprengel museum of design in Hannover and it was amazing. Ironically their website is horribly designed; even when you select English all the menus are still in German and there are no photographs on the site that would highlight the wonderful designs you'll see if you visit. It's like they're saying, "Ihnen wird befohlen, zu besuchen und Sie werden freudengefühle erleben!"
If I ever make it back to Germany, I'll have to check it out!
Honda Civic mk8 is iconic 😊
sorry did you say the Leyland Mini had good storage
It’s first a meme until it’s iconic. Simple as that. Almost all great deign goes through this. It’s just about how well they’re accepted over the course of time. You said it yourself, first it’s meh, second..
Thumbs up!
Hey Ben. Good to hear from you. Thanks for checking it out :)
What does the phrase "speak to a greater truth" means here.
Can someone explain?
It expresses a deeper meaning
Sales = iconic, there you go
i dont get your point about the cybertruck. the "greater truth" is that its made from stainless steel, no more scratched paint or rust. and since stainless steel is hard to shape, you need to find a shape that basically consists of straight lines. where's the insanity in that?
This is a pretty interesting video but it has a fatal flaw: I take issue with the idea that you can just invent a new definition for an idea and then assume everyone is using the word that way, that's just not how language works. "Recognisable, memorable and sets a new standard" sounds very much to me like 'trend-setting', not iconic. Iconic is not just that, and the really important bit is embodied in the idea of icons on computers/phones, which follows the dictionary definition: icons represent a broad, complex idea within a single entity. All the examples you focus on are indeed icons, but not really for the reason you give, because you stop short of actually identifying that broad, complex idea.
The iPod is an icon, not because it's recognisable or memorable (the same is true of many other MP3 players of the era) and certainly not because it set a new standard (in terms of tech, it didn't, it's predecessors like the Creative Jukebox did, it just offered an alternative paradigm; the competing products were better technically, but didn't have a juggernaut tech company behind them to pull in an incredible designer to rethink the look and interface), but because it represents the moment Apple became cool by leveraging its industrial design abilities to make a product not just nerds but everyone wanted. It's an icon of the early years of the internet and the tech boom, too, and more than anything it's an icon of the power of design to make a mediocre product more attractive than the much better alternative products.
The Mini, on top of being recogniseable (although every car is recognisable) and memorable and setting a new standard (improvements in car design that allowed the Mini to thrive at the junction between microcars like the Isetta and small family cars like the Austin 1100, meaning it fitted a remarkably wide number of people's needs), what the Mini really represents is the height of British cultural and economic power. Anyone who knows the Mini knows it's a British car, the two things go together hand in hand, and it also represents the time it was new: the 1960s, when British cultural power was at its strongest.
And the Strat; yes, it ushered in new things through new technology, but what it represents is the music that this new technology made possible; that's what is recognisable, memorable and standard-setting, the Stratocaster is the conduit which made that happen. The Stratocaster design represents rock music, essentially.
That's why I think the Cybertruck is actually iconic, and illustrates well the idea that iconic can also be bad. It's very representative of Elon Musk himself - a big, brash presence that you can't really ignore, either genius or vaporware (or a weird mix of both), but nobody can quite tell which - and of the things he stands for, the hyper-capitalist, hyper-individualist, hyper-libertarian worldview. Because the jury is not in on whether this approach to modern problems is in any way effective, it's an icon for Musk whatever you think of him, good or bad. I'd say it's also memetic, to be clear, but in my view that requires something to be at least a bit emotionally engaging (not really needed for an icon). In the case of the Cybertruck it's the absurdity of it that supplies this.
For the same reason, I think the Stratos Zero is NOT generally iconic. It does in some measure represent a certain trend in car design toward the wedge form, and it is fantastic design; I as a car design lover recognise and understand the importance of the car (it's iconic *to me*, therefore), but since it was only a concept car it simply hasn't enough recognition to mean anything specific to most people. But as someone else pointed out, the Countach, another, later design from the same person that became a massive hit...THAT's iconic. Supercars of the time were out to shock and awe all who saw them, and the Countach really popularised the shock factor the Stratos Zero had pioneered. Its aerodynamic performance is actually quite poor (Cd 0.42), but it looks impossibly fast and violent; it does not seduce with beauty, as previous high-end supercars did, it instead ravages with brutality. It's not only an evolution of the Stratos Zero's ideas into a more usable car, the LP400 and later versions absolutely represent the '80s, an era when power, aggression and excess was more important than beauty, and a lot of design projected these values.
Hey, thanks for leaving such a thoughtful comment. While I don't agree with a lot of it, I do agree with some of it, and I think you bring up some great points.
from professional design perspective “please don’t assume i am a fan of the cyber truck because i am not talking only about it but any product design, i am just trying to clear 1 huge point about the future of design”, you was way wrong and didn’t understand the design Philosophy of the cyber truck, it is trying to represents the best optimal design for a car, every shape, every line, and everything try to follow that. there is nothing in the design about the look, it is all about the best functionality possible. and all the future cars “and products” will follow this design, and all of them will almost be identical if the functionality is identical “meaning other truck” and any change in the design for other type of cars will be 100% just to maximize its functionality to the most optimal way, because in the future there is no extra line or shape in any product design, every 1mm will have clear purpose and functionality, and this is why this cyber truck will be in vast future the most iconic design because it is way ahead of its time. in the future even the people will not like any product design that have anything extra that don’t serve it functionality, the best will be the most simple most optimal.
keep in mind that even if cyber truck failed to achieve that and its design, it tried to do the most optimal design, and every product design will follow that in future.
I understood the design philosophy. I just don’t agree with it. I don’t think it’s the most optimal design. Yes, the body design lowers the price,but it’s at the expense of pretty much everything else. I could be wrong. We’ll just have to wait and see
Just imagine if the ipod had a circular display and a square touchpad instead of the opposite....
I think the strive itself to make an iconic design is futile, like strive to become a billionaire, there is a good portion of luck required.
Absolutely. Very very hard to do.
What does "speak to a greater truth" mean?
Ipods didn't "change" the world, go easy with Apple, that's just what they want you to think, but yeah it was a leap forward.
Yes they did. Having lots of music available 24/7 was a big change. I was listening to some 90s dnb that’s underground. I was just wondering how in the 90s it actually would have been perceived as really novel and I probably wouldn’t have discovered the song mainly because with physical media I think you really actually have to be into collecting music to find novel stuff and then because there isn’t a web search it’s still hit and miss. In a way I think constant access to music actually makes us take it for granted more.
That Cybertruck looks very dangerous for pedestrians even when it's stay still - scared, slipped, fell, hit the head on a cybertrucks frame, died.
Plus the driver doesn't see a shit - ..the angle of the windshield, racks,..
That's obvious iconik disaster.