Lightweight Bikes vs Aero Bikes: Getting Past the Hype
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- Опубликовано: 10 авг 2024
- The Cycling industry is on a constant merry-go-round about what is more significant, Aero or Lightweight. In this video I look at the numbers behind the marketing claims and explain how aerodynamics plays out in real world riding situations.
#Aero #lightweight #bike #hype
00:00 Introduction
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The best gain comes from dropping body weight.
👍🏾
also body positing is probably 90% of aero NOT the bike
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@@veganpotterthevegan and that 10% for the average rider is not a huge gain. You are not 5 minutes faster. Over an hour 🤣
@@veganpotterthevegan bro keep believing the marketing department haha. You are not a pro you don't deal in 1 or 2 seconds
Oh yea being in Florida with my steel bikes now, accelerating over and over has been punishing me 😂 but I still love it!
But my priorities are 1. Fitness, that’s my number one due to overcoming health problems using cycling and 2. Recycling these old bikes and components and planning on keeping them for a lifetime rather than letting them go to a dump!
Keep building and riding them. I got that same sluggish acceleration on my MegaSet... but is was fun👍🏾
Respect! Nice reply!
I think the biggest improvement to aerodynamic efficiency will likely be in being able to get lower position. Put money on improving your flexibility and comfort riding a low position, if you need to ride fast solo, such as in a TT. Lighter wheels do help when climbing, but only in acceleration. Over a 5% grade on a 10km climb, maybe it might be a minute or so for a wheel set that is 400g lighter. In all cases, losing 5kg is the best performance gain! I ride a steel bike like your Bianchi!
With a 500m difference in altitude, you won't be able to take a minute less with 400g less weight. Because that's just under 2000J or Ws. With 200W power you would only save 10s.
Rotational weight is heavier than static weight.
Really liking this channel! Great advice and thoughts for cycling in the real world. My bike is neither lightweight or aero, but one can always dream!
At last! A discussion which deals with the reality of aero in the group - or the lack of it.
Luis, you forgot one neat trick for the best free aero gains. If you're small (like me) then get yourself behind a 190cm rider - 20 less watts immediately.
This discussion (weight vs aero) must surely be heavily (haha) influenced by rider size and mass eg for me (166cm, 59kg on a 6.9kg bike) my aero drag would I assume be far lower than aforementioned 1.9m, 80-90kg rider. For them an aero bike would probably make more sense in terms of w/kg, whereas for me, a lightweight bike is the critical factor, nes par?
We also have to think about windspeed vs land speed. As you said the gains get bigger as you go faster. I'm simplifying but let's say we are riding 25mph into a 10mph headwind effectively makes it 35mph wind speeds and that makes aero more of a factor.
At the end of the day, finding the right balance for your style of riding is the most important.
Nice to see more cycling content with different perspectives. 🤙🏽
Then you turn back and have an effective speed of 15 😊😊
Thanks for sharing your insights👍🏾
Body profile all day long, from 90kg to 75kg, coupled with a decent training plan, you can't go wrong.
Luis, I'm not sure if you mentioned tyre choices, they're some performance gains to be had in tyres.
Neither camp!
I own a road bike ss,and a 29er ss!
I watch this, because Luis makes very good and educational videos!😊
Greetings from Kris from Croatia 😎
Was able to add 1.5mph with the same power output using a set of comfortable aero bars. Took all the pressure off my arms,hands, and neck. Very relaxing. Solo ride, would not use in a group. Huge comfort increase on long rides. All the aero wheels I tried scared the heck out of me on coastal rides. Wind pushed me into traffic. Went back with standard revolution, double butted spokes on box rims. Tubulars of course.. ultra light.
That is awesome. I am going to produce a video on tubulars... gonna ruffle some feathers.
@thegoodwheel Excellent! Personally, I find way more comfortable. Look forward.
I put my stock in a solid combination of aero and weight. Living in Colorado I see my fair bit of climbs, but also spend a tremendous amount of time on the rolling hills and flats of the plains. My riding is a mix of fast group rides, racing and solo training. No one looking at me would ever mistake me for a climber as I definitely a bigger, more powerful physique.
I also prefer the looks of an aero style bike. They just look better and faster to my eye.
Thanks for this video. I have always thought along similar lines. As a recreational rider, if the bike isn't comfortable, you won't want to ride as much. As far as aero gains: Gaining 5% of 30% is negligible compared to getting a better position on the bike to gain 10% of 70%. Living and riding in Vermont where the hills regularly have 12 percent or steeper grades, weight is way more important to me than aero dynamic gains. That being said, I did just purchase a carbon wheelset that has a more aero profile than my old wheelset. It was more for the lower weight than the aero gains however.
Great insight! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Chris Miller (Nero Show) sent ne here. Great Channel, awesome content. Love your obvious passion. Keep up the good work. 👍
Thank you Johnny! Welcome. Hope you enjoy the content👍🏾
I always chuckle when I go on group rides: a couple of men somewhere around 85 to even 90kg, driving SL7, S5 and you name it..Because 'the bike is lightweight you know..And then they have a slammed stem and high carbon wheels 'because aero', whilst they sit up straight with their elbows locked out because they are not flexible enough to even get low with the upper body.
Meanwhile I spend less by eating less and can chill on my high stem, but can also drop down (almost) like Evenepoel when it's time to get aero. Because I spend time on core and flexibility exercises. Conclusion: there is a lot more to be gained with your body than with your bike and it costs a fraction.
Very nice video and interesting topic... I focus more on shaving off body weight, aero positioning on the bike and increasing power-to-weight (watts/kg). The weight and aerodynamics of the bike help too.
At 135 lbs and living in East Tn. I gain more from a light weight bike and being able to both ride and make power from a lower position on the bike. On the fast “flat” group rides positioning and dealing out power properly is way more advantageous for me than an aero bike…that’s just my personal experience. Great video with real world perspective!! Thanks!!
Thanks for sharing your perspective 👍🏾
Body optimization is my focus. Weight loss, more gym/leg training, and time in the saddle. I already have pretty nice bikes with great rolling hubs and stiff/light enough rides. If I was serious about racing, maybe I would care more about aero+lightweight stuff. At my current stage it's a non-issue.
I enjoy climbing and there are tons of hills here so that's what I focus on weight more then aero. Maybe if I can cruise at 25+mph constantly then aero might have more credence
I prioritize fitness and aerodynamics of body positon. All of the other stuff is marketing that doesnt make "you" stronger. If you are only fast because you spent 10k and can sleep at night with that, then buy all means , buy all means. The cycling industry needs your money.
Thanks for witching 👍🏾
It would be interesting, if there are any drag measures of classic steel frames. Are there any comparisons?
A round profile has the same aerodynamic resistance in every direction, whereas elliptical shapes are only optimal when the wind blows directly from the front. In sidewinds there should be more resistances, besides the greater impact on the ridestability. To my impression Aero is 70-80% marketing driven.
You get it!!!! Thank you!!!!
I would argue that your body is approximately 80-90% of the aerodynamic impediment to bicycle propulsion. If you measured your frontal area (including head, legs & arms) it is WAY more than the frontal area of your bike. The rider is in essence holding back the bike! Marketing will always find a willing "expert" to promote a myth that sounds good on the surface to sell more bikes. You are correct on the aero con & I agree with you on how you choose a bike.
Comfort is really important.. that's why I ended up riding with a recumbent bike. Well, the riding position happens to be really aerodynamic as well so that's a plus :D But anyway, longer rides are so comfortable now and I get to enjoy the scenery as well.. can't help but smile =)
I was thinking about the 'bent advantage today. Thanks for sharing👍🏾
I like your logic and the real chat. Tech spec is aimed at geeks , who lap it up without thinking deeper. If i wasnt 5 to 10 lbs overweight , a carbon bike or aero bike , might be on my radar. As thats not the case , I just want to be the best i can be , old tech will be my preferred option. Reynolds or Columbus steel tubing , still gives me a buzz, plus I am a sucker for the classic geometry and racing position. As another person said , I like your bianchi more , I am sure you enjoy it also. Thank you for the video. Just send us some of that sun to Scotland!
Thank you for the terrific video, as always. I have a heavy Giant Defy Advanced 1, and so, that as a given, I work on: 1). Maintaining a good aero body position, reducing drag as much as possible, and with a snug fitting kit. 2). Staying strong (training) and vigilant (good, healthy diet) with an eye on my power to weight. Stay lean. 3). Looking for small, inexpensive ways to reduce the overall bike weight, I just purchased a new saddle that's many grams lighter and far superior to the stock saddle in comfort and design. 4).Tire selection for low rolling resistance with decent puncture protection. Of course, a road/race vs. road/endurance bike (mine) will be hands down faster right from the gun. I just completed this past July, a cycling camp in the French Alps, where we climbed more than 25,000 feet, over 200 miles in six days. The club provided us with a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7 Disc, pounds lighter than my Giant and built for speed. Climbing, on the flats and descending were all notably easier and faster. For now, I have my Giant, but a lighter, faster, better handling bike makes a big difference, there's no question.
great video luis, your content is really good and unique.
i nearly got caught by the aero marketing of the last few years but i was able to testride the Cervelo S5 and the Bianchi (the one with the flaps at the headtube) and thank god i did not buy beforehand. the bikes where stiff like a brick and so incredible non responsive i was shocked. they were nice when you were up to speed and it felt easier to stay at speed but every other aspect was just mindblowingly bad. i have to say i live in the alps but nevertheless i would never go for a full aerobike ever, its just not my cup of tea. i prefer the lightweight responsive feel of climbing bikes.
I’m a huge fan of that new steel bike of yours, can’t wait to see the new wheelset! ✌️
Refreshing points here about the industry overhyping aero, especially when aero and lightweight bikes are converging towards the same design trends over time
For me it's:
1) Bike fit
2) Power transfer (stiffness of frameset, handlebar, and wheels)
3) Weight (light enough, but not so much as to sacrifice stiffness)
4) aero (just wear cycling jersey)
Sounds good. Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
Don't forget aero wattage gains are not measured from the cyclist's speed, but by the *airspeed* the cyclist is experiencing. Massive difference.
So considering this, 23mph airspeed is pretty frequent to any seasoned cyclist (considering you are not in a flat area and that don't ride only on windless days).
I’m not the lightest and I live in a hill area so weight should be important to me but I rarely notice the weight of a bike so tend to go towards aero as my main thing is fast downhill and on the flat
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
I love your videos, keep up the great work man. :) In regard to aero, I place a greater emphasis on my body and clothing choices and the aero of my bike is secondary. The best investment I’ve made in a product, is a NoPinz skinsuit for when I race. Otherwise, body positioning, drivetrain efficiency, and then lastly the the aero of the bike like wheels, cable management, etc. come into play. I ride a modified 2006 Cervelo P3C frameset for Duathlon, and in and thanks to the cumulative modifications I have made and structured training, I have won three races over the last year.
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing your insights 👍🏾
Great video, i agree with most what Luis saying but why is always one or the other/ ? i ride a 2022 Bianchi Oltre xr4 rim, dura ace di2, Cadex 42 ultra light carbon wheels, the whole bike weights 6.7kg , as aero as most aero bikes, as light as most light bikes, i take full advantage of aero and low weight. We have an abundance of choices and one could build a aero/light bike on the budget. all my other bikes are steel and Aluminum, have them all around 7.7kg , pretty darn light for steel, fantastic bikes but none can touch the Oltre so yes, more aero, stiffer, better wheels, etc matters and does make a difference
Luis, your videos are so great. It’s like having an old school mentor for us newbies who don’t have a big group ride community. Really appreciate it!
Thank you Mark! I really appreciate that 👍🏾
Great video Luis! I’ve got two steel Keirin frames. A Rensei Lab with lightweight components, round spokes, and shallow rims that weighs about 17 pounds. I also have a Nagasawa with all heavy NJS components but blades spokes on shallow rims that weighs about 20 pounds. I definitely feel the difference getting up to speed but I am significantly quicker over my 30 mile flat Low Country ride on the Nagasawa. It’s purely anecdotal but I wonder if the bladed spokes are the difference.
2:54 Hey it's that guy with the coolest Giant paintjob ever.
Anyway, I'm neither aero nor lightweight. My bike is literally less than 5% of my bodyweight and CdA. It literally doesn't matter how aero or light it is compared to any other bike that would fit me. Nobody in the consumer space is a professional cyclist riding 100 mile stages, ascending and descending the Tourmalet where this would even matter. Just get something that fits you and is easy to maintain/service.
Yep! Just ride👍🏾
Truly great points! As an odd aside, it feels too easy to confuse a great looking bike for aero gains and the industry isn't in a hurry to correct us.
No, they are not!
Nice well done commentary Luis!
I noticed your back lighting! lol
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Yeah thanks
The ex pro David Millar said that handling is most important. If the bike handles shitty, you can't win a race.
Thank you for the great video. I can fully relate to it... I bought the Princeton Peak over the Wake cause weight matters in hilly terrain
Thanks for sharing!
In 1976 while stationed at Mac Dill Air Force Base in Tampa, I was a member of the Coppi sponsored Broward Wheelmen and also joined the local Gasparilla bicycle club.
Our coach was Albert Byrd of Tampa, a 1936 Olympic Bicyclist competing on track as well as on the road.
Al rode his old blue Schwinn that was built for him by Frank Schwinn, Al lived in Chicago at the time. The wooden rims wheels were hanging in his garage as he had upgraded at some time to Campy wheels on that old bike. His Schwinn had no steel decal, so we called it a "Secret steel." Some words of advice from Al was to simply to "go out and work up a good sweat. "
He also, while asking about a particular workout or ride in the hills up around Ferndale, " Did you make him throw up?"
These are words of advice that have stood the test of time, and when we gathered and compared our Columbus tubes SL to SP or Reynolds, Al would simply smile, he got a kick out of us, before he dropped us.
So just get out there and you know what to do.
These remarks concern the debates about Weight vs. Aero.
Thanks for sharing that story Frank!
In south Cali so weight is more important than aero around here. 90% of guys in clubs are all on climbing bikes with shallow carbon wheels 45 and lower.
For me being a solo rider my position is more important than anything aero. I did a simple test by just changing my position on my touring bike (42c tires, rack, fenders bags weighs 28lbs). Acceleration is very bad but once I i get up to speed and having my arms resting on the bars like a puppy I am able to sustain 22-23mph and can easily keep up on a draft behind a tt cyclists going 25mph.
My take: your position on the bike, clothes and the way your pedaling is set to the bottom bracket/crank determines your power output efficiency.
Aero is completely marketing if you cannot sustain an aero position. To me the rider is 80% the wind drag, 15% bike, 5% wheels.
I would also add to the wheels that the less spokes you have at the front combined with quality hubs the better you can sustain speed.
Good insights! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Great video. Great channel.
I don't like either. A bike doesn't need to be very light or aero. It should be fun, save and easy to maintain.
Great video Luis. You helped me to refocus my priorities about loosing my excess body weight. Thanks mate.
Glad to hear it
Given I ride steel frames, the camp I'm in is shock absorption to stave off fatigue, tempered with BB stiffness to accelerate. Both are of equal priority. 3rd is aerodynamics due to being 5' 8" at 132 lbs.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
I used to have some light weight, aero carbon wheels but the bearings were small and rubbish so
they rode slower than my old campagnolo training wheels which were heavier, less aero but the bearings were smooooooth.
I'm a mountain biker, so light weight :) Honestly though, when road riding, I go for a mix, though I'll always be a weight weenie at heart. I totally agree that your own position and gear make way more difference than the bike - aerodynamically. Being able to stay in the drops for long periods is WAY more important than an aero frame. That said, what are your thoughts on the idea that having a more aero bike might just make the difference between going fast enough for aero to matter, or being too slow - if you are on the cusp, speed-wise?
Riders must realize that their shoulders can only be squeezed to a point. Beyond that point, smaller handlebars have no benefits, only discomfort!
I like the subject of your video. I'm into lightweight and aero. I guess the head tube of the new tarmac sl8 will grow on me. 780grams for non sworks and 685 grams for sworks for size 56 is really great.
Its amazing that they achieved that weight. Fork is light as well. Thanks for watching 👍🏾
Initially all focus was on shedding bike weight, then came looking at bike aero gains, then came rider weight followed by rider aero (biggest single gain by a country mile) followed finally by AUM - all up mass (bye 500gm shoes in favour of 190gm shoes, 350gm watch gone for a casio f91w and better fitting aero clothing) - the inexpensive 'marginal' gains on the rider are far greater than the very expensive marginal gains on the bike itself.
Great video, very informative, I'm getting a new set of carbon wheels. I'll let you know how it helps😊 🚲
I find lightweight bikes feel different to ride and more alive.. agree about wheels to.. my alloy campy shamal wheels with ceramic hubs feel so smooth and fast, I own 2 sets and a disc set in carbon excellent 😊👍🚴🏻Pete
I live in the Netherlands so aero matters as much as weight, Maybe a little more because of our notorious 360 degree head winds.
Oh you mean like Florida 😊
I was just about to say that.😂
Interesting topic, just look at some carbon frames, and aerodynamic bike frames are mostly suited for triathletes but not for the usual rider, sprinter or climber. Unless you are doing time trials , then a highly aerodynamic frame matters. Also components such as wheels, seat post , aerobars, saddles. Also the positionning your body on the bike as well as the item lenght matters a lot. I like a combo of the two with a classic geometry and aero dynamic wheels
Thanks for the tips!
do you have a video on supplements cyclist's should take
1. Getting on the bike
2. Having fun
3. Being comfortable
4. Training regime
Seems like aero dynamics has been brown off my list 😅
Need to focus on no. 1, 2 and 3 in my age.
Out here in SoCal, lightweight is the way to go for me. There is always climbing on rides, so the lighter the better. I'm 6ft-5in, so aero doesn't really matter to me.
DT Swiss P1800 32mm deep rims are aero enough for me, and not too concerned with "all in" weight at 21lb/9.5kg....it gets windy here and it's undulating/mountainous, so that set up is good enough for both.... I only got the wheels because they were much cheaper than the 23mm deep ones at the time, then GCN etc started pushing aero and now it's flipped and the 32mm are more expensive! Not worrying about bike weight when I'm not my ideal weight!!!
I've ridden those. Good wheelset👍🏾
Man, when you come to Italy again maybe it’s time to take that bianchi where it’s really belong… the mountain! Waiting you in Dolomiti :)
I'd figure that as flat as Florida is, that aerodynamics would be a sought after feature than a lightweight bike. In Colorado, a lightweight bike would be more of an advantage than aero, also noting the thinner air at altitude.
I have two bikes, an aero carbon bike and a 1980s steel frame bike. They have similar components, except the aero bike is 1 by. I ride them (like I'm doing an ITT) regularly on a mostly flat course with lots of things that slow me down, from bends to traffic lights. I find that the old steel bike is consistently faster than the 2 kg lighter aero bike.
I have heard similar stories👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel Luis, I've just bought a ca. 1970 steel frameset on eBay. Similar to what I raced on back in the 1960s. I'm hoping to get it built up before the snow comes.
bike companies are pushing the light-weight bikes now, coz once that 6.8kg weight limit from uci is lowered there is no beating the carbon fiber industry. aluminum would then become antique in just a day.
I was really surprised by this refreshing and balanced view on this topic!
Question: what do you understand by „drive train efficiency“ ?
Is it the group set (Shimano vs SRAM) the ergonomics of shifter and range of gears?
What do you prefer mechanical vs electronic and SRAM vs Shimano?
Thanks ! Moritz
Thank you for your kind words. The effort required to move the chain. Which is how low friction the bottom bracket and rear hubs are. Also using proper gearing so that you are mostly in the middle of the cassette to reduce the bend of the chain.
I mostly use Campagnolo because I like the ergonomics and features. Regarding all three groupsets, they all work fine to me. Hope that helps👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel thanks for answer! I was not aware that there is a difference noticeable difference in that terrain between the different choices. Good to know!
I ride a 24 year-old Mondonico El-OS. Not aerodynamic and not particularly lightweight by today's standards. However, it is comfortable and it is damn good looking. I also own a ten-year old titanium Lynskey road bike. It's decently lightweight and it is very comfortable. I think it looks pretty good too in a basic bicycle sort of way. I don't care much for aero. Comfort has always been my guiding force because when Im comfortable, I will ride it longer and enjoy myself way more.
Thanks for sharing! EL OS is top shelf stuff👍🏾
Race bike: 16.4 lbs , aero tubing, 60 mm wheels, 25 or 28 mm tires, set up low so I am flatish on the hoods, but comfortable in the drops. Daily driver, 18.8 lbs (before I add handlebar bag, camera ect ect) , 50 mm wheels, 30/32 mm tires, but sometimes larger (36 mm) , set up a bit higher. It also has a compact crank so I have gears for days. Different tools. I can shed a bit of weight on both bikes, but I'm in no hurry to do it.
That daily driver will make you fly once you get on the race bike👍🏾
FIRST! like Vingegaard! Boom!💯💥
Ha ha. Thanks Brother👍🏾
Preciate you👊🏾
Getting back on my bike. And getting back in shape. That’s all I can afford.
👍🏾
I like to look at it in terms of "matches burned." And if I'm in a big group and riding all day, weight is absolutely going to have a bigger influence on burnt matches than an aero frame. (Special emphasis on the word "frame.") All those little accelerations, every little riser or hill that we have here in the midwest, just the extra 3 or 4 pounds that your body has to move for the entirety of 4 or 5 hours in the saddle. So, pretty much like you're saying, how many watts am I "actually" saving with an aero bike in a group versus how many extra watts am I burning propelling an extra 1.5-2 kg for 100 miles?
Wait a minute, in a prior vid you said that weight was not a difference, you were talking about a steel bike too. I noticed that you are riding a nice light colnalgo carbon bike too…hmmm did you change your opinion? Good vid man
Thanks for watching. Meaning that weight is not an issue as a deterent to purchase a steel frame because they can be built up light enough👍🏾
When are you going to be in central Florida?
Likely mid month for a couples days
That new specialized looks just like the Supersix Evo. Sounds like it too. Ahhh yes Cannondale. They see you out here. 😂
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At what weight, is a bike considered “light weight”? Great video, thanks.
Thanks for watching. I consider anything under 18 pounds light... but that is just my opinion👍🏾
the motor on the bike is the rider, it is all just marketing. 25 years ago paris roubaix at 46 km average says it all(duclos lasalle)
Thanks for watching 👍🏾
Aero and lightweight are just marketing gimmicks. Aero is your position, not the frame. Being light is you, not the bike.
In marketing it’s called “Unique Selling Point”. If bike brand does not use aero and lightweight as their USP, then virtually every other bike are the same and it all comes down to look and price.
Big brands such as Pinarello, Trek, Specialize emphasise on Aero/lightweight to justify their high cost. Their high cost is due to justifying too much 😊 (marketing budget)
None of the aero claim will benefit you if you can’t hold an aero position for 3-5 hours
I’ve seen dude with “aero” dogma Fs with 35-40mm spacers and getting dropped by guys with an allez who knows how to actually BE aero.
1. Comfort, 2. Fun, 3. Weight 4. I dont care about aero.
👍🏾
What’s going on at 3:30? you’re 3 abreast!
The Superman position is illegal. We've all seen the shorts of Superman passing everyone. Also, once weight is moving it wants to keep moving. I think it's the second law of thermodynamics. It's all about aero and efficiency. Though none of this factors in when riding bikes and why i love to ride bikes. In fact, i think the fact that the biking industry pushes the extreme performance when marketing scares potential riders, prices out many more, and ultimately hurts cycling on the whole. But that is a different soap box.
Edited for clarity and bad autocorrect.
Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Welll I think aero bikes look better lol, I guess I have to suffer coming around those corners and accelerating from stop lights.
You get to pick your poison 😂
Body position on the Bike 70%
I noticed a significant difference in my cadence and efficiency when I focused on my position and form. You feel the bike responds differently positively or negatively depending on these factors.
👍🏾
Aero gains from the bike for the average joe, is a joke
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