Muscle Soreness Explained | Can Muscle Growth Results be Measured by Soreness? - Thomas DeLauer
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
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Muscle Soreness Explained | Can Muscle Growth Results be Measured by Soreness? - Thomas DeLauer…
Muscle Growth Misconception/Cause(s) of DOMS- Even well-conditioned athletes can get DOMS, if they train harder than usual - but as muscles get familiar with a specific stress, they quickly adapt and react much less strongly.
Causes of DOMS:
There is some evidence that hydrogen ions and reactive oxygen species - both of which increase in concentration during exercise - may contribute to DOMS. Metabolic stress during exercise can cause changes on a structural level at the cell membrane (sarcolemma.)
That is, what you think is “muscle soreness” is at least partially (if not more) “connective tissue” soreness.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...
A study published in the The Journal of Physiology had 8 untrained males (22-27 years) perform 210 maximal eccentric contractions with each leg on an isokinetic dynamometer, voluntarily (VOL) with one leg and electrically induced (ES) with the other leg. Assessments from the skeletal muscle were obtained prior to exercise and at 5, 24, 96 and 192 h post exercise - muscle tenderness rose in VOL and ES after 24 h, and did not differ between groups. In contrast, a significant disruption of cytoskeletal proteins (desmin) and a rise of myogenic growth factors (myogenin) occurred only in ES. Intracellular disruption and destroyed Z-lines were markedly more pronounced in ES (40%) compared with VOL (10%.)
Likewise, the increase in satellite cell markers [neural cell adhesion molecule (N-CAM) and paired-box transcription factor (Pax-7)] was more pronounced in ES versus VOL. Finally, staining of the intramuscular connective tissue (tenascin C) was increased equally in ES and VOL after exercise. Demonstrating that in human muscle, the delayed onset of muscle soreness was not significantly different between the two treatments despite marked differences in intramuscular histological markers, in particular myofiber proteins and satellite cell markers.
“An increase in tenascin C expression in the mid belly of the skeletal muscle in both legs provides further evidence of a potential role for the extracellular matrix in the phenomenon of delayed onset of muscle soreness.” In other words, it demonstrated that at least some of the pain of muscle soreness stems from the connective tissue holding muscle fibers together, not from the actual fibers themselves. That is, what you think is “muscle soreness” is at least partially (if not more) “connective tissue” soreness.
*Nerve fibers that transmit pain are located mainly in the connective tissue found between muscle fibers, as well as the junction between the muscle and tendon. In other words, the source of the pain appears to be the connective tissue that helps to bind muscle fibers together, rather than the actual muscle fibers themselves*
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...
Study - Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research-
Researchers found in this study that both high- and low-soreness programs lead to similar gains in muscle strength and size. 2 different weekly frequency resistance training (RT) protocols over 8 weeks on muscle strength and muscle hypertrophy in well-trained men. 23 subjects (average age of 26 years) were randomly allocated into the two groups: low frequency or high frequency. The LFRT performed a split-body routine, training each specific muscle group once a week. The HFRT performed a total-body routine, training all muscle groups every session. Both groups performed the same number of sets (10-15 sets) and exercises (1-2 exercise) per week, 8-12 repetitions maximum (70-80% of 1RM), five times per week.
Results showed that both groups improved muscle strength [LFRT and HFRT: bench press = 5.6 kg and 9.7 kg and squat = 8.0 kg and 12.0 kg and lean tissue mass [LFRT and HFRT: total body lean mass = 0.5 kg and 0.8 kg with no difference between groups (bench press, p = 0.168; squat, p = 0.312 and total body lean mass, p = 0.619)
Summed:
They compared training a muscle once a week with a full-body workout performed five times a week, Monday through Friday. Both groups did the same exercises and the same number of sets, with one key difference. The once-a-week group did two exercises per workout for 5-10 sets per exercise, while the full-body group did 11 exercises for 1-2 sets per exercise. Subjects in the group that hit each muscle group once a week reported a much higher level of post-exercise muscle soreness. However, the researchers found no significant differences in terms of strength or size gains between the two groups. In other words, both the “low soreness” and “high soreness” training programs increased muscle mass and strength similarly.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
Who else is sore watching this haha?
I literally woke up and could barely move my arms
My thighs hurt lmfo
I just tried the 'dips'...could only do 5!
If someone's not sore AT ALL while watching this. You're not even training consistently enough. (Doesn't have to be pain. Soreness isn't pain every time.)
Cold Showers helps
Short answer: There can be a correlation, but it's not direct or absolute. So the lack of soreness doesn't necessarily mean a bad workout.
A1
thank you.
👍👍
Thank you, that lonnnnggggg explanation was unnecessary and distracted from the actual answer
@@beautycirclepro that's what he does lol. Enjoy watching him though.
Pain is just weakness leaving the body!
Life is pain.
We said that in the Army 30 years ago! Man I'm getting old! 😂
I 100% Agree With You 🏋🏿♂️💯
@@monogamousbonobo3923 That's where I learned it!
That's dumb,...pain is an alarm system. Something broke...in this case...muscle fibers...your body is not your ego...it's a machine.
If I don't feel sore after I workout I feel I didn't work hard enough. Funny thing is my legs never forget to be sore 😂
Because legs are the one part of the body that never gets rest, unless you're laying/sitting down.
Dev n good point, never thought of that
Train them 3 times a week bro. That's the only way to not get sore legs
@@ahmadahmad3082 yeah I do them once a week but focus my whole session on legs. I am thinking of splitting my leg workout up throughout the week adding on to other muscle group sessions
What works best for me is splitting it up. I remember there were periods of 4-5 DAYS after my workout where just walking was a pain. Let alone having to kneel down and foil a palette because I am working at a warehouse. I'm doing modified version of a push/pull regime. On pull day, I work only my hamstrings. I do 4 sets and keep it in 10-12 rep range. Push day for shoulders I pair it up with my quads. I go really heavy on either leg press or squats 6-8 reps for 2 sets and 2 sets for my inner thigh to get them well rounded - high reps for that one since it doesn't need strength anatomically 15 - 20 reps. And then I do 4 sets of leg extensions on chest day 10-12 rep range to give the legs a different kind of stimulus. It might seem like it's too little work for the legs, but believe me, it isn't and my squat is increasing and legs are getting bigger without soreness. Only my hamstrings ever get sore.
My personal trainer said on the first day “with me, you’ll never be sore, you will never sweat, but if you do what I tell you to do, you will start seeing a difference within 2 weeks”. I saw a bigger difference in 6 weeks with him than I did 2 years on my own...
The thing I noticed that he made me do... eating protein every 2 hours, no exceptions... I’ve noticed personally if I don’t eat enough protein I get sore. If I eat a decent amount of whey protein and meat, even when I go super heavy and just wreck my muscles, I’m not sore... if I can’t eat enough protein, even if it’s 3 days after a heavy day on a muscle group, that muscle group will start to hurt.
Protein is the lumber your body needs to repair and build muscle... if there isn’t enough lumber to repair all the damage, your body will be sore because the muscle damage isn’t getting repaired.
That is what I’ve noticed personally. I’ve tested this for my body in the gym as well as hiking/rucking. When I completely wreck myself doing a 16 or 20 mile mountain ruck with a 30 or 40lb pack. I am SSSOOORRREEE! Lol. But if I eat a ton of whey protein in the days after, the soreness is minimal and I’m back to normal within a day or two... without the whey protein I’ve found I’m sore for over 7 days...
I strongly feel most people just do not take in enough protein through the day to support muscle growth when working out... and that is where the soreness comes from. A few other people I’ve mentioned this too have tried it and have noticed similar results to mine... granted it’s not scientific at all. But it’s some “food for thought” (pun intended!)
Interesting. Are you still taking protrein every 2 hours? And how much protein do you take?
I've found protein makes a big difference too. After a hard run and before doing weight training I'll eat a 100g can of tuna (about 25g of protein). While doing this I have never had long term soreness, and after sleeping I feel great and can train everyday.
I completely agree, if I feed my muscles enough I don’t feel sore, I’ve been rucking for 5/10 miles with 20kg and I’ve not been sore , just slight shoulder soreness from the weights on my shoulders but been doing it for nearly year and I’m fine. Protein makes a big difference, feeding my muscles reduces my soreness too. However just yesterday pure body weight exercises and a few weights moves and I’m stiff as a ruler today, which is strange. Also in the rucking stage I’ve managed to put muscle mass on and reduce a lot of fat, but hardly sore.
I needed this advice, I've been sore for 2 days and I haven't been consuming a lot of protein, I need to do this to heal faster asap!
My shitty trainer is not telling me my diet. Its been 2 days🥲
Those leg days where u cant even sit on the toilet 😫 #fml
Argh, the pain
I love that actually
Glutamine that DOMS away! Lol
Haha, great comment 😂
🤣🤣🤣
If you want to have muscle growth, you have to activate every of your thousands of muscle fibers several time.
The only way is to work the muscles as long until you feel that burn. I do a full body workout every day and I feel that short burn. But I don't have any long lasting soreness. The soreness I feel only when I start a new exercis which stimulates unused muscles.
New Thomas..... huh?
Focusing more on muscle building content I like that. Keep doing this series we really enjoy
I've come to learn that Thomas will eventually do a deep dive on something I really want clarity on. Dude always delivers.
Wow, this was really fascinating stuff for someone who's just started getting in the gym regularly this past month. Thanks for this.
Excellent content Thomas! Great breakdown of solid evidence. Appreciate your thorough approach.
I actually enjoy being sore after a workout it’s a physical reminder that i incorporated progressive overload
The problem is when you wake up the next day and you can barely move
Being sore from working out is a wonderful sensation that lets me know that I had done better than the last time, therefore I am on the right path and the food I will eat will fulfill and recover and then grow and enhance these muscles.
Truly an awesome review.... excellent content. Thank you!
Awesome information Thomas! For some one that once was chronic over-trained with cycling/fitness, this is something I take note of for my work-outs.
Cool. Just in time before my workout today. Your info seems to confirm, what I experienced. Thanks for good info as always.
I think this is one of the most important videos you've made. The point is simple -- stimulate enough to induce change but not so much that it impairs you for a long amount of time. It's better to do some every day vs just an enormous bout.. the end result will be the same and/or even better since you've been able to train more frequently and consistently as well as at a more manageable amount.
Thanks a lot for this man. Great work.
Very insightful information. I always had the thought of focusing on just one muscle group because one of my friend advised me doing so. But I always believed in an overall exercise for building strength and gaining body. Now seems like I got my answer and I know what to do. Thank you Thomas, I love your channel.
Wow! What great information! But it fits 100% with my experience. Thank you for debunking myth like this!
It’s crazy how timely this video is. I just started researching this topic today Bc I’ve started a regular workout routine and I’m not feeling sore after week 2
This was an interesting RUclips video. Thank you kindly, Mr. DeLauer.
Yes I agree 👍🏻 Always awesome information ℹ️
This is another case of a great video perfect timing for me. I jumped back into the gym this week after a 5-6 month break ( still kept it keto though ). I once again found myself working out my various muscles across each day, when I found myself feeling it more in other muscles, eg when working my back I hardly feel it. I know this could be in part a form issue etc but its nice to hear that even though I may not feel it in my back I am actually still working and growing it. So yay for this video!!
As always love your videos keep them coming
Great video, very informative and helpful! Thank you!
Smart dude, I strive to be like you
Cheers ✌️
Thanks for clearing that up! Love your work brother! Thanks again ✌💓
I'm only commenting because of the same first name lol but I do agree with your comment haha
Thank you thomas I have been wondering about this for years.
Great Video. I always enjoy Thomas and his scientific attitutde to fitness. Good inspiration for my own channel
Nice vid, i been training full body every day, one set of each muscle group without fail and love it, thanks!
Thank you so much for this info.
Nice video, Thomas
Very interesting information. Thank you again Mr. DeLauer! I appreciate the information you share. Now I don't feel so bad because my upper body isn't nearly as sore as I thought it should have been after my workout yesterday. My legs, however, are another story after today's workout...
This explains A LOT!! Kudos!!
Great video. Thanks again
Best feeling when see notification from you.
Perfect timely good sir. I start a weight training routine with bands recently & was a bit confused. I’m seeing the results but have almost no soreness. I thought maybe I wasn’t working out hard enough but couldn’t deny the results I was seeing.
And as always: Thank you Thomas.
Thanks for this video. I tell people this all the time.
Thank you I feel a lot better ! Now I know why I get so sore you explained it perfectly
So glad u made this video!!
ive learned more from Thomas since he started posting videos, than in my last 6 years of training
Perfect timing. I’ve recently stepped back from needing to constantly push to the edge every workout. Also going more full body. My gains are up as is my enjoyment!
Devora Gray Joseph valenti. How do I break a fast,without fats,and stay fat adapted?
I didn't know there was connective tissue in between the muscle fibers themselves and that damage to these fibers was strongly correlated with soreness. Very interesting video as a whole Thomas. Thanks. Have a nice weekend.
Thank you so much for your vidoes. I absolutely love them and the entire sciencetalk behind it!
I'm just curious about: what to do with sore muscles once you've got them.. especially in the beginning of one's weightlifting journey 😶
Like: can you train with sore mussles? What is to much soreness? What can you do to recover better? Is walking or swimming going to help the muscles?
🤗🙌 if you havent got a video about this already, I would really much like one!
Whoa, that study you shared is wild! Not what I expected at all!
Love your content❤
Thomas, I am so grateful for everything you are doing for us! I adore this channel!
You and Dr Eric Berg are the best! Thank you so much, so many useful information! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Please give some advice for skinny fat girls.
Love the videos Tom. I took a look at the link for the second study and noticed that there is no mention of soreness there. But you did mention that the study was published elsewhere. Was that where they mentioned the perceived muscle soreness?
Great summary
Awesome video change my goal in the gym, can you do a video how to work out, example on forms, contractions, key lifts, and what to target first?
That was Great Thomas !!👍👍
Wow this is awesome info..
great stuff
I was wondering about this question and thomas uploaded this video
Great info as always, I completely agree, I don’t think you have demolish your muscles, because then your out for a a day or two which in essence makes you loose out on the training days that you could be doing. Plus when your fresh each day for your workout you have 100% strength to do another great day of workout. Recovery should only be necessary if you have not had enough sleep or not had sufficient nutrition to feed your body to perform 100%.
"believe it or not" - got a hate-love-relationship with that phrase of yours in every video xD
MAN, Thomas that why i love your videos, This is soo Darn
interestinggggg, I HAve always trained like the demolishing muscle-group, and thought its better but this got me thinking, imma read the articles and Know more on this Matter!!
So you can do a full body workout 3_5 times a week and still have the same results but without the cramps??!! AMAZING
Tom you must be psychis or something man.. i watched this vid. Cause i watch most of your vids as they are very informative... I didnt expect you to answer the question lingering in my mind of whether i should continue full body workouts or start breaking them up.. Thank you.. youre great
Muscle soreness from workouts isn't usually painfully sore, yep it's sore and aches but weirdly nice to massage out, unlike painful soreness that is ...well painful.😂
It’s only painful to the touch or when have to use the muscles
well for me I massage it excessively I think. I will Use C clamps on my sore arms lol and bruise them
Hi, Thomas. Big follower of your work. Very grateful for all the info you've given me these whole time.
Video idea:
Soccer player. Torn LCA on dec'18. Had surgery. Great recovery with absolutely no drugs (no pain killers; no ibupro., not even a paracetamol in 2 years). Very low inflamation response, probably due to very healthy keto diet and IF.
The things is this... 8 months after surgery I was coming back after lots of kine therapy and ripped 5 cms of my femoral biceps with some tendon retraction (same leg). Back to kine and a medically supervized soccer reintegration plan. Recovered from that and I was given the permission to start practicing soccer again very gently. Made a bad movement and my knee lost all stability. Tor part of my restored LCA again 3weeks ago and other parts of the knee.
I always felt very good about pain, inflamation and recovery in general, so I felt keto and IF were really good for me and my knee in that sense...
But... Could it be possible that healthy keto and IF could make me weaker in the knee recovery, my muscle strength or something like that? I seriously doubt it, but Ivve always been injury free and since I changed to keto/IF 2 years ago, I've been having these big injuries that have installed some doubt in my mind about the effects on my structure.
Please help..! 😔
What does that scientific data says about all these?
Am I just unlucky or could the diet change may have affected me negatively?
I meant "this", not "these"...
I almost never feel sore when I work out my shoulders and back (I feel weakness/tiredness though). Yet when it comes to my next workout, I'm stronger and can lift more or do more reps anyway. This video was great confirmation that no soreness is a-ok!
You feel sore initially. Then your body adapts. If you feel sore continuously, see a doctors. Something's wrong.
Would love a video on weight gain and muscle soreness. When I feel muscle soreness I've typically gained a few pounds
personal trainers like to do too much versus slowly adding up, i gave up once and spent three weeks to recover, another time i couldn’t sit for a week and lost so much productivity and quality of life… now i learned not to let them push me around lol
VIDEO IDEA: Hi Thomas. Love the channel and the content. I've been in your KetoX program for nearly 3 months and have enjoyed great success with it. One of the main reasons I went keto is to help with my triathlon / endurance goals but since going keto I’ve been struggling with 2 things. 1) How to fuel for training sessions and 2) How to fuel in races, whilst maintaining the benefits of being fully fat adapted but also fuelling optimally for long distance events. It would be great to understand how to best fuel for longer training sessions and races, if there is a difference.
best
db
Very interesting stuff....i have been wondering about soreness for a while. I would love to see a video comparing weight lifting, HIIT and cardio (steady state low intensity), and what share of my workouts each one should possess. BTW, I am a tennis player, and I can make my practices into either a hiit workout or a cardio workout. I want to lift weights more but i have to be careful with my shoulder, elbow and wrist which suffer from long-term tennis wear and tare.
Also, is soreness equal to hypertrophy?
For maximum gains focus on total volume lifted for the week. DOMS is most likely connective tissue damage. Spread the weight volume out more during the week and you will reduce your connective tissue damage, reduce doms, and have the same if not more gains!
There is an important message here...I think it may be more applicable to older folks-(like myself)--to stay moving and not stray too far from a comfortable range in order to accumulate more...activity-motion during the week.
Hey! Just saw your interview with Naomi whittle. You did a great job. The only reason I signed up for it was because I saw you would be in it.
Thank you for bringing this up Thomas, this myth drives me crazy!
Hey Thomas! Were any of the studies done with different age groups as well? Asking because I'm forty with injures.
Thanks, Thomas. Great video, research and information. I do "prison" style workouts - a few times a day (every day) - in low volumes throughout the day. Helps with boosting energy levels throughout the day, less soreness overall, and I find it yields much better results (also keeps me consistent :) )
Hey Thomas thanks to you I have lost 75lbs. I now have the loose skin issue. Can you do a video explaining the science/ process to get rid of it?
Second that ✋
Unfortunately the only way to get rid of loose skin is surgery. It’s expensive but some surgeons might offer payment plans.
Put on weight you lost back and start loosing that weight again but this time slowly.. less expensive but too much work.. lol
i've heard fasting helps with loose skin
Dry fasting cures everything!!! Start with 24-48 hour dry fast then break it with coconut water and cucumber take pictures and watch loose skin start to tighten up work up to a 72 hour dry fast for optimal results
I don't comment much on videos but after reading the comments section, I'm very disappointed to see some people think they know it all and yet they still have the same problems dealing with them. The information is there. It's up to you to put it in practical terms to see if it works or not. Take the best information and apply it instead of bitching bout what you THINK you know. Trial and error. Thats how you progress in getting what you want.
@thomas deleaur can u make a video on benefits or harms of baking soda
can you do a video on recommended exercises?
Hey Thomas love your vids, just wanna clarify, is it better to have carbs before or after your workout using Targeted keto diet?
@TheHevaenSon both as in pre and past workout...wouldn't that kick you out of ketosis and be a carb overload?
No pain, no gain is only applicable to the first few months of starting the gym. After that then you're doing something wrong IMO
I'm gonna try this everyday see what happens 💪
hmmm think I'm gonna have to start reworking my routines now
so happy to hear for more confirmation. my so-called superfit friends promise one muscle group per day is better. I "tease" all muscles on a regular.
Love the message. Going full Meathead is likely going to impact your performance. Thanks Thomas.
Question: How does recovery play into this? I focus on a specific group using a 5 day split, which gives each group time to recover. Sore as hell, of course, especially after leg day. But would a full body workout 5 days a week give each individual group time to repair and rebuild? Or is it semantics?
Your videos are great, id love to see a video about what you think of these '100 pushups a day for 30 days' and '100 pullups a day for 30 days' videos on here. Can it actually be as good as the people doing these things make out?
I’ve been doing crossbody hammer curls every day now for about a month. I literally had soreness the first day. I kept doing the curls everyday and the soreness went away and now I just get a hella pump. I use 40 lb dumbbells and do 3 sets of 20 reps alternating arms. I can now do this every day and not get sore just pumped.
Video for best workout for older people please!
Please can you show me all your chest work outs exercises .
I’ve been doing at least 3 rounds of the Wim Hof method before I start my workout and after my workouts to cool down. Then I’ll stretch and take a cold shower for 3 whole minutes to definitely push the blood back into my muscles and relieve soreness.
So, if you wanted to shift from a "chest" day where you do 3 sets at a heavy weight to failure, how would you change your routine to do a full body workout everyday? 1 set at a high weight to failure, 3 sets at a lower weight, 3 sets of the heavy weight, but stop before failure?
Video idea... How to know if you're working out too much OR not enough. I used to workout everyday, HIIT @ OTF for 1 hour. Now I only go every other day. I really don't know if I'm slacking off or doing the right thing.
Spent 3hrs in the gym earlier and didnt have DOMS. Needed this vid!
Because it gets to you a day or two after the workout on that muscle group....at least me it does. Leg day for me is nothing...it's the 2 - 4 days after.
When are the videos on the carnivore challenge coming?:)
Dual lands going to do a live update today!
Do you deliver your boxes of thrive to Quebec? Canada?
My question is about training and fasting. I train in a fasted state in the morning. When I started IF and then Keto, fasting was easy. My exercise was just walking. Now I've taken up running and strength training that will help with running. And fasting isn't anywhere near as easy as it used to be. When we train enough does fasting become a bad thing? Or just something we shouldn't do as much? Why is fasting so much harder now that I run? I know I still have fat stores for burning.
How do you only have 1.4 million subs? Should have so much more.
1.4 million isn't a small number.
Hey Thomas, can you bulk effectively on full body everyday, stopping 2 reps before failure?
Is preworkout keto friendly? Will it break a fast?
Thanks for this clear presentation
Is there any evidence suggesting that workouts under ketosis in a fasted state give rise to less muscle soreness than workouts under glucose ?
Do workouts under ketosis need less oxygen than workouts under glucose?
Hi, I believe consuming lots of saturated fats improve muscle recovery. Have heard Dave Palumbo (a leading body building trainer) say so.
I've always had the mindset if I'm not sore I didnt work out as hard as I should of...I feel like you can tell the difference between connective tissue being strained and the DOMS in your muscle fibers when you really tear it up. If I'm not sore I'm not working out hard enough or I've been doing the same exercises too often and my muscles are adapting/becoming used to the movements. /endofbroscience